What does the 2020 3D Zelda game need for you to love it?

I wouldn't mind being able to burn down villagers homes, specifically if they have darker skin.

Jungle Hero Link

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More enemy variants.
More Customization.
More of the same with large Dungeons sprinkled about.
Refined Weapon system, like a blacksmith or something to give my favorites a boost in usability.
New weapon types, Daggers and Hammers I guess.
Living friends.
Optional, Wife.
More house customization.
Randomly generated dungeons for post game shenanigans.

I really like BOTW, all but the enemy variety is fine to me.

More open world design. Toss in some more substantial dungeons than what we had with the shrines, sure, but holy fuck I had so much fun exploring the world that I can't ever go back to old Zelda games.

No, seriously, I loved OoT and all that but older titles feel so goddam linear- go to dungeon, get item to solve a few puzzles, go to next dungeon, get item to solve a few puzzles, repeat.

Seriously, why the fuck would anyone want that again?

Agreed. Preferably Paya's. Mmmmm

> Traditional Zelda like Music, Dungeons, Story, Progression & Items
This is obvious.
But the main thing is Fanservice, like what Twilight Princess & MGS4 did. Where you had those emotional moments like Returning to Shadow Moses, Temple of Time, Sacred Forest Meadow after the events of the past game. That's what it needs, sure BOTW had callbacks like Lon Lon Ranch but they were all shit since the game had absolutely no Story or Music. Those emotional moments are what gave Zelda it's Soul, ideally it needs to take place in the timeline after Wind Waker. The game had unlimited potential with the sailing Concept, Technology held it back at the time but now this is no longer the case, Just imagine instead of shrines we have over 100 islands full of secrets, puzzles, items & quests like Eventide. It would be perfect
Hell even having the game be about the Hero of Time & showing what happened to Link directly after Majora's Mask would be perfect

More phantom enemies and less bestial enemies for a change.

I hope they use the same engine, double or triple the durability, and use the dev time they save by reusing the engine on making more variety in shrines and making more dungeons. also most of this

What happened to the stalfos? I want more gariety

Your fortune: Excellent Luck

botw had stalfos tho?

T. Never played any of the games except BOTW. Zelda without Dungeons is the equivelent of Pokemon without Pikachu, Mario without Platforming or COD without it's fast paced gameplay. It's what gave the series it's identity, and without it it's just another generic Open World game. Zelda without the Music & Dungeons is complete shit. Even Twilight Princess is infinitely better then BOTW simply because it succeeds at all of the fundamentals of Zelda

An even bigger map, or at least one as big as BotW's. People wanting a smaller map are utter retards.

Still a ton of emphasis on open world exploration.

Ancient palaces and temples for dungeons.

More enemy variety.

That's literally it. BotW is still the best Zelda game by far.

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I suppose. But it was stalfos, the tall ones, and lizalfos.
I guess I just want more skeletons that aren’t based on predicting enemies

Less open worldy.

>Zelda without Dungeons is the equivelent of Pokemon without Pikachu, Mario without Platforming or COD without it's fast paced gameplay

t. Dumb zoomie who didn't play the first game in the series.

ocarina of crime

>Actual dungeons
>Swordplay that doesn't feel like smacking sloshy meat bags around
>Cooking that doesn't break the difficulty to the point of death barely being a threat unless you're one-shot
>Weapons are about 3x less plentiful but are about 3x as durable, also rare items that allows for partial weapon repairing
>Shrines are far less common, but each shrine has the content of about 4 BotW shrines

>Even Twilight Princess is infinitely better then BOTW simply because it succeeds at all of the fundamentals of Zelda

Not sure if baiting or just retarded.

Hey, whatever works for ya, dude. I found Twilght Princess a fucking chore because it was such a lazy retread of older Zelda games. That style of Zelda game has been played out to death by now. I would much rather Nintendo work on perfecting the open world-style they tried.

And yeah, it certainly could use some work. Actual dungeons, better weapon system that doesn't have you replacing weapons all the damn time, more music, bigger world, and so on. Anything where I have the freedom to go wherever the fuck I want to when I want to and discover neat shit wherever I go.

i'm not gonna buy it. not because i hate zelda,but because there is no way they are topping peak open world masterpiece BOTW

Not him but Zelda 1 had better dungeons than BotW, those combat gauntlets were genuinely more interesting to overcome.

Dungeons. BOTW isn't even a real Zelda game, frankly, it has nothing in common with the series. They need to add dungeons or the series is dead.

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I agree with him but TP's been my favorite Zelda since release.

cut the pretense of nu-Zelda not being an RPG and make a more colorful Dark Souls with metroidvania elements.

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>those combat gauntlets were genuinely more interesting to overcome

No. No, they weren't. They were literally just combat gauntlets with some bland tile pushing and locked doors.

Which is funny because BotW has that too, and that's also executed better.

Dungeonfags are absolute cancer. Zelda was never supposed to be about that, even if the first game did have some half-assed dungeons.

>no disgusting sex fanservice
>no cutscenes
>no voice acting
>60 FPS
>no DLC
>actual challenge
>gatekeeping to keep the retarded casuals away
>not allowed to pander to anyone else but people seeking challenge
>no crutches like flurry rushing or timestop

Just for starters.

He's right
> Take BOTW & give it TP's engine, and it's Morrowind with a Zelda skin
> Take TP & give it BOTW's engine/Sound Design & it's the best game ever made
BOTW lacks the fundamentals of Zelda, the only redeeming part of it is the Graphics & open world exploration, it's subpar in everything else. Whereas TP suceeds at music, story, dungeons, bosses & characters. But horribly fails at Graphics & it's overworld. So if you switched the two games, BOTW would be significantly worse then TP ever was

I would say that Zelda 1 even has better combat than BotW.

The original had better dungeons, bosses & sense of progression then BOTW

BotW's dungeons had next to no real combat scenarios, they were effectively pure puzzle dungeons. On paper that's still fine and I don't hate what they were trying to do but the problem with them is that they just didn't go deep enough. They felt like slightly more complicated takes on the everyday shrines, which were already a lackluster attempt to properly scratch that dungeon itch. There is something to the "reach all 5 terminals" approach of the divine beasts but it just needed more meat to really stand out IMO.

>not allowed to pander to anyone else but people seeking challenge

Just stick to your FromSoft games, tryhard.

Have a story with lore as good as Morrowind.

>games aren't allowed to be challenging
>we need to pander to the game journalist audience

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>BotW's dungeons had next to no real combat scenarios, they were effectively pure puzzle dungeons.

I said BotW has that too, I didn't say it was BotW's dungeons. Mainly I'm referring to certain shrines and Trial of the Sword.

I imagine BotW was plenty hard for sournos as it was, in normal mode. Even Zelda is now to gamey for their pallet.

All they really need to do is iterate on the formula they have for BOTW. Add more enemy types, more gadgets to mess around with, a new world, new weapons and better dungeons.

in order of importance:
>Great Combat
>New Gameplay Element (That isn't a rushed, unfun, uninteresting gimmck that isn't clever or well designed to be carried over into later iterations)
>A Puzzle
>New Plot/Setting
>A Character
Nothing else much worth mentioning.
Sounds like a lot I suppose, but it's time to make up for twenty years of fuck all. Fire Fujibayashi (sadly), Aonuma (not so sadly), and bury Miyamoto's faggot ass with Iwata.
If you're gonna outsource it, Christ please not to Monolith Soft. Not exclusively, anyway. Unless they rebuild their design team I can't imagine them pulling off the first aspect, let alone the rest. They can design the world, but without a competent director whose vision isn't a sandbox with a handful of tools and no sand then they're completely worthless.

Exploration in Zelda was only ever done particularly well in Zelda 1. BotW was an admirable attempt to bring it back and it does succeed in some respects but I think Zelda 1 did a better job of actually rewarding your exploration, the things you found were frequently kinda neat and you didn't have to wander through a bunch of meh wilderness to find something halfway interesting. In BotW, exploration stopped feeling rewarding after about 10 hours and you kinda got the gist of what you were gonna find 80% of the time by then. Zelda 1 at least had the decency, if not merely by circumstance of hardware limitations, to not waste your time and have a consistent balance between wandering and satisfying discovery. I do think BotW gets it VERY right on the Great Plateau but beyond that it veers too hard on the wanderlust and doesn't satisfy enough with its destinations, which saps the fun out of exploring after a while.

Well, my problem is with the issues pertinent to the divine beasts. The rest of the game is what it is, not really what I'm bothered with.

More lore, story, more NPC's and A world that feels alive. I loved BOTW's setting at story and feel if they go for an open world with the opposite of that (a hyrule at its prime trying to to prevent calamity) it would be GOTG.

>BOTW lacks the fundamentals of Zelda

The fundamentals of Zelda involve exploration, navigation, puzzle-solving and some combination thereof. BotW nails those aspects better than prior Zelda games, especially fucking Twilight Princess which objectively has some of the weakest designed puzzles in the series right next to Wind Waker.

Where's the dislike button?

I keep hearing people talk about enemy variety in relation to BotW, like half a dozen in this thread alone, and while I agree did it not perplex anybody how there were no enemies?
Like, literally. Regardless of the variety, you virtually had to go out of your way to fight an enemy. Otherwise you could briskly walk past every trash mob, and in the case of those garbage bokoblin camps you had to take a shit on their campfire to get them to react.
I mean what the legitimate fuck went wrong during the development? Did they forget that they're making a video game, or is walking from A to B in the most boring fashions ever devised now considered a rewarding gameplay experience?
I can remember that webm being shilled the week of release of a bokoblin one-hitting an early game Link, like the game was the quote unquote Dark Souls of LoZ. Like what the fucks the point if that bokoblin is never on your dick during gameplay?
No enemies in Dungeons
Barely any in Shrines, and its all mini-guardians and strength tests
Hyrule Castle is the only place that looked like it was given any attention, and ironically it's completely ruined inadvertantly if you use the world's worst locomotion mechanic: free climbing.
Fuck this game, what a mess. The antithesis of game design.

More toon link desu

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The Sacred Grove puzzle ranks among the most infamous in 3D Zelda history. Otherwise, TP's puzzles are fairly par for the course aside from its bosses, which are indeed very weakly designed.

>Hyrule Castle is the only place that looked like it was given any attention, and ironically it's completely ruined inadvertantly if you use the world's worst locomotion mechanic: free climbing.
People keep hyping up Hyrule Castle as the best part of the game, but I have to say it was genuinely one of the worst. At no point are you ever forced to follow a specific path or look for a specific way to unlock a door or find a key or anything. Freedom does not work with dungeon design. You have to be restricted otherwise you can just skip everything and reduce the dungeon to a minor nuisance. Infact, that's what I did the first time around. I just skipped everything by free climbing to the top and I didn't even realize I was at ganon the first time. My first thought was "wtf where's the dungeon? Did I just skip it all?"

>if i look at everything in a vacuum and be intentionally retarded, anons will reply to me!

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>In BotW, exploration stopped feeling rewarding after about 10 hours and you kinda got the gist of what you were gonna find 80% of the time by then

The problem with this argument is that it's a false equivalence. You don't know what you're going to find even 20% of the time in BotW because damn near every shrine, village, and environmental puzzle is unique. There's much more variety than you're giving the game credit for, and it frankly blows LoZ's variety out of the water.

But what about all those forgettable instances where you find lore-less doodads that have no unique gameplay elements/instances or arcs attached to them?
Remember the ghost elk on that mole hill?
Remember 'Dorf's horse?
Remember Naydra?
Oh I take that back, I guess Naydra was a bullet time tutorial.
Remember Max Payne?

My biggest complaint is the fucking bosses. Got to be the worst bossfights in the series

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...

TP's puzzles often amounted to mundane tile-pushing bullshit and repetitive dungeon layouts.

My first run through the game was nothing but a disappointment. Every town was just yet another group of useless NPCs that gave me boring fetch quests (dude find me 5 apples, and I'll give you something equally useless) or more shrines.

You did just skip it all. Granted you can, but I spent like 3 hours combing through that place and it was arguably the most fun 3 hours I had playing the game. But yeah, climbing and ESPECIALLY the Zora armor break the fuck out of it if you're just rushing to Ganon. Take the time to savor its inner workings though and it's the closest thing to a satisfying dungeon that the game has, easy.

>Pokemon without Pikachu
Bad point user

You clearly didn't play much of the game. There are dozens of sidequests that aren't just fetch quests (see the shrine quests in particular) and saying "hurrr more shrines" is just a dramatic oversimplification of the content you're actually engaging with since shrines tend to be very different mechanically.

Dungeons.

Nice

>I just skipped everything by free climbing to the top and I didn't even realize I was at ganon the first time. My first thought was "wtf where's the dungeon? Did I just skip it all?"
Pretty much what I did right after leaving the plateau. I wanted to see how far I could get, thinking I'd get crushed the moment I got anywhere near the castle. Instead I made it to Ganon's room easily and was only stopped thanks to all my weapons breaking.

Do everything different to what this piece of shit did.

We can't have ganendorf again, he gave up on reicarnation

You can argue the specific but you know everybody is talking about shrines, seeds, and enemy camps. The puzzles may be good, but how they're presented is ass and makes them a chore. The only genuinely exciting/unique things to find in BotW are the towns.

A hard mode without fucking health regen.
I should hate myself and start a hard mode run tomorrow.

Unique in that there were slight differences, sure. The best you could hope for was either spending 10-20 minutes solving a puzzle in a shrine or working through a good sidequest like Eventide Island or Thyphlo Ruins to find a reward shrine. But after a while I just didn't bother with shit like enemy strongholds because they NEVER rewarded me with anything worth the effort, I'd just end up with some precious stone or weapon to replace the 2 I broke getting it. Towns were okay I guess, better than in past games at least, and there's little denying the infamy of korok seeds which, barring the discovery of any of the previously mentioned, you're incredibly likely to just stumble across one of these. Don't get me wrong now, BotW is cool as fuck when it decides to be cool as fuck, its best moments really do showcase the potential of this approach. But for my tastes, those exciting moments came far too infrequently and the game settled into a predictable mode far too soon.

BOTW but with qol improvements. I don't mind durability because it makes you try more stuff. Combat could be more fast/fluid. Enemy attacks need more variety and higher level enemies should have different attacks (instead of gold just having more hp and damage). Dungeons need to be bigger and better. Probably less or no shrines with a different fast travel method. Properly spaced fast travel points

Eventide and Lost Woods are the only remotely decent shrine quests.
Eventide and the Plateau are easily the best areas in the game bar none.

Thunderblight's legit but otherwise they're all pretty forgettable.

Unique is not in and of itself something well designed or interesting.
Every Shrine is easily predictable from the word go because of the runes. Their nature is invariably similar and design so basic it's hard to even call them puzzles. The hardest one in the damn game isn't even physics-based, no wonder.
The villages aren't exactly architecture to beheld, nor do they ever carry any particular interesting sidequests, a major issue with the game in general. The Domains especially are the weakest. Not only do you know exactly what you're going to get (the usual suspects), they're so fucking tiny and inconsequential despite the purported massive scale of Hyrule. They're lackluster, with only Zora's Domain looking visually decent, and leave no impression outside of fapbait threads. There's literally nothing going on inside the racial capitals of the world except for NEETs masturbating to an underaged Gerudo, Trap Link and Fishdicks.
>Environmental puzzle
I'm willing to bet the solution is one of the runes.
That being said, the best puzzles were the Shrine Quests. In fact those are practically the most well designed facet of the game, and it's a shame because there are so few. They're clever, and the solution isn't the rune, and when the runes are involved they're a tool to the solution, not THE solution.
That fucking sheikah slate crap felt like Doctor Who's screwdriver.
>We couldn't design something clever, so here's some water inside a shrine
Gee Bill, I wonder what the solution to this one is. Really flogs my noggin' when a game garners acclaim for some shit that even Half Life 2 took flak for (repetitive, poorly designed physics-based puzzles).

I tried going through it the second time around, and I'm afraid I still don't get the allure. Half the time I entered a dungeon area from the wrong way, and it was a chore trying to figure out the "intended way" to do it. For example, the mine cart you find in the lower levels. It's not fun finding the wrong end of that, because there's no mine cart for you to timestop/magnesis/whatever on that end.

Didn't play much? user, I unlocked every single part of the map and I know it top to bottom, from the location of every lynel (they're in the snowy region, three of them are near a shrine) to the location of respawning hearty durians (off the side of faron tower I believe). I know more about shrines than you give me credit for. The simple fact is that 90% of fetch quests and sidequests weren't fulfilling because all they gave me was a shrine. And the ones that didn't just give me a reward off the bat were repetitious and mind-numbing. The tests of strength in particular were insultingly easy. Even when you're not getting easy flurry rushes off of them, they're obscenely formulaic and regardless of it being a minor, moderate, or major test, they all have the same AI.

On the topic of non-shrine quests, I can't even remember most of them. The ones that immediately come to mind where fetch quests like killing a hinox, or bringing back a hinox toenail, or bokoblin guts, or just giving them some food out of my vast reserves. I can't recall any of the rewards being worthwhile either.

The puzzles are good and are presented in mechanically interesting ways. You can complain about the aesthetic, but it doesn't diminish the content.

A slightly smaller world with more in depth dungeons and more Majoras Mask style quest lines and memorable characters
And honestly a better final boss.
Rest of BotW was pretty kino desu

I don't think that's any more or less true of TP than the Zeldas before it.

Only a few of them. Putting a ball into a hole is a pathetically easy puzzle and is insulting when it's the solution to a korok seed. It shouldn't be the solution to an entire shrine.

Off the top of my head, only two shrine quests stood out. One was in the dark woods with the hinox that you had to fight in pitch black, and the shrine that requires you to line up the light with the pedestal and shoot the arrow into the sun. It's the one Kass sings about in the gerudo region. everything else, like "dude don't step on the flowers lmao" was mind numbing.

I agree, but only to the extent that free climbing is fucking shit and horribly implemented.
I still prefer Hyrule Castle's open-ended design in regards to the interior and multiple entrances, I.E. the shit Aonuma was shilling years before BotW, and then backtracked on mostly.
Remove free climbing and the game is massively improved IMO, I just wish I hadn't played the damn thing with it the first time around. Stop using it and you start to have to find ways around obstacles and the world actually gains some sense of vertical scale and depth. You start running into enemy blockades and have to actually fight (or stealth) your way through. It's almost like playing a video game.
Fuck free climbing. I will never not be angry about this.

They are, but they also frequently feel like they're over just when it's getting good. BotW has tons of puzzle content but the way its distributed is annoying if you want to, well, solve puzzles. Wandering around the overworld for an hour to find the next 10 minutes of puzzle content makes them feel about as relevant as the grottos of past Zeldas, like a minor footnote that's neat to stumble upon but, aside from the requisite reward at the end of it, almost doesn't matter. If it weren't for spirit orbs, shrines would be just as relevant as grottos for how clearly the game wants to push overworld exploration.

Free climbing isn't that bad an idea, but being able to infinitely eat stamina foods (even while climbing) while getting a hundred stamina upgrades, AND a champion ability that sends you 1000+ feet into the air, kinda ruins it all.

BOTW would have been 10/10 if it just had more traditional Zelda dungeons, and remove weapon durability. So just the same game with those things added and taken out respectively.

>game advertises freedom
>have to crossdress to get into the gerudo town
>not even allowed to sneak past the guards to talk to their leader, they magically spot you at all times of the day, regardless of how you get in
>They still hate you even when you help stop Vah Naboris

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I don't think even Revali's Gale is that bad in terms of breaking overworld design. I'd say the grossly overpowered cooking does enough on that front, that mechanic needs so much fucking descaling. Link can only hold like 10 cooked items, you have to eat them in real time a la MonHun, Link has a hunger meter and can only eat so much in a given amount of time, all of the above even, but as it stands cooking is wildly unchecked and perhaps the single most broken mechanic in the entire game.

Aesthetic is only a part of it. Puzzles are held back by being tied to a utterly monotonous and repetitive mechanic meant purely to pad out the world. You know exactly what to expect and what you'll receive in the end when you come across a shrine. They're also tied down by the few abilities you get at the start. They never evolve or progress beyond the abilities you already mastered on the plateau, nor do they tie in to their environment around them like many did in past Zelda dungeons. They're single one and done hurdles.
I don't know why anybody even bothers defending anything about BotW other than its world. It seems that nearly everybody who likes the game boils their praise down to exploration.

More enemy variety and some combat changes would be a good start.
Is pretty much my wishes

Eventide, Into the Vortex, Sign of the Shadow, The Stolen Heirloom, Secret of the Snowy Peaks, The Serpent's Jaw, The Three Giant Brothers, Shrouded Shrine, and Master of the Wind are all pretty damn good.

I don't even remember half of those. Snowy peaks was the one with the dragon, right? I can't even remember the point of that other than the shrine.

I stand to reason that free climbing wasn't originally part of the design of the game and was a late element added so Miyamoto could climb virtual trees.
Nevermind the pause menu, I realized that almost without fail that even the tallest, virtually ninety-degree angles have little outcroppings (presumably to make the rockface look realistic) that you can run in tiny circles on to regenerate stamina and trudge on.
Being Sam Raimi's Spiderman is a great concept in theory, if this was a fucking Spiderman game and had web slinging and a protagonist with a personality and a villain that isn't indistinguishable from a natural disaster. I mean so much for heroism and shit, here's your antagonist bro, a primordial mist that ambiguously takes over machinations of an advanced ancient race with neon blue lights, also known as the exact same plot setup as that stupid ass Horizon game.
The fact that they spent any time designing this garbage against the grain of the world's design, which is entirely traversable without it, is insulting. Reggie can talk about fun all he wants, but this fucking shit is the opposite of fun.
Sandman doesn't count as a natural disaster

There's nothing particularly wrong with shrines being the equivalent of grottos in past Zeldas though. That's actually pretty much exactly what they were intended to be, except they're obviously better than the old grottos because they lend to your progression and also contain some actual puzzle content. What's the issue?

I think another game in 2017, Hollow Knight, really nails what you're talking about. You can only hold so much in terms of healing juice (aka soul) and you have to heal mid-battle while the enemy is attacking you. they don't give you a chance to heal, and you can't pause to heal. You have to learn their attacks and utilize any time, even the smallest opening.

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Botw with actual content and non-shitty combat

I beat all the shrines and the only good one I remember is Eventide.

I remember all of them, which is why I posted them. I'm willing to bet most people would disagree with you on the dragon encounter.

>people spend over a decade complaining about Zelda being focused on nothing but puzzles
>BotW is nothing but puzzles and is praised

Even with all that, cooking a single hearty ingredient would still be incredibly broken.

for it to not be on a shit gimmicky console

You can throw a sword at him while he tries to recharge his shield to instantly break it. It crushes him.

Just not being another ocarina clone

Free climbing should require some actual gear and heavy preparation if you want to scale a mountain cliff, the game should punish you for miscalculating the climb by preventing you from instantly pulling out a glider to prevent fall damage. Plus, if they want to make champion abilities super strong (Mipha being a free life, Urbosa one shotting, Revali's gate giving a middle finger to every vertical challenge), then they need to make the divine beast actual combat and puzzle challenges that require hours to beat.

For it to be on PC or PS4

>The only enemy that explicitly wants you dead and will spawn to kill you dead are bara Yiga
>They're piss easy and drop more OP 'nanners for your infinite pockets
so much for balance

I wouldn't count on it. BotW formula has prob conditioned you.

I want:
More interesting durability system (repairs etc)
More interesting inventory (backpack, storage capacity)
Crafting
Camping (putting down a tent and a pot for the night)
Complex, multi stage dungeons
Caves
Return of real items (hookshot particularly).

I remember every dragon encounter being a massive letdown, including the one for a shrine. Why in god's name did anyone think turning them into a tedious farm for op gear was a good idea?

I mean can you kinda refresh me on the point of that dragon again? It's been a while since I played, but all I remember was shooting him a few times, then shooting him again for a scale, then sacrificing the scale, then the shrine popped up. And that was it. I expected something a bit more grandoise. I faced basically a boss monster in a boss fight. All I get is a spirit orb?

Can't you just use some elemental arrow?
I don't remember defeating any of the blights in any other fashion. Just eat the hits and shoot a few volleys with multi-shot bows. Is there really meant to be a strategy for the blights?
On a semi-related note: Why wasn't Hyrule in a constant 24/7 Blood Moon (I.E. red filter, buffed and rabid enemies, etc...) that was gradually lifted as you defeated the... you know... BLIGHTS?
Could've been a neat system to add a sense of progression. I mean it's right there in front of their face.
Thank God for radiant trash mobs tho. Nothing I hate more than replaying a short, solid experience. Give me radiant garbage instead, I'll create my own fun. Minecraft sure is great. Notch who?

The dungeons of old allowed players to engage in thoughtful, focused level design for an hour or two at a time. BotW lacks this sort of dedication by design, which makes it fine if what you want to do is wander around a world for hours on end but kind of frustrating to put up with if you always saw the overworld as something of a means to an end. Not for a lack of attempts on its part, its just that it rarely really comes together as something that satisfies on that front. BotW feels like a Zelda that appeals to exploration oriented fans, which is 100% fine as that crowd has honestly been shit on for decades now unless you're desperate enough to count WW's sailing. I'm not mad that BotW exists but that it never really hits a proper stride on the part of Zelda I like makes it to where I have my reservations about it. I don't want that explorational element to go away, I just don't want the focused puzzle element to feel so anemic either.

>You know exactly what to expect and what you'll receive in the end when you come across a shrine.

You could say this about almost every Zelda game ever. Any side content in previous titles will either result in a heart piece, a rupee or some sidequest collectible, take your pick.

>They're also tied down by the few abilities you get at the start.

So they put your runes to use, unlike many previous games where you got an item only to seldomly use it again. This is a good thing, not a bad thing.

>They're single one and done hurdles.

Virtually every Zelda puzzle is a one and done hurdle.

seeNaydra is just a tutorial for bullet time.
I guess if you're a huge fan of bullet time, it's interesting.
Otherwise there's nothing going on. It's Haku from Spirited Away, except without the character and story. Thanks for climbing that mountain bro.

Breath of the wildin out n shiieeet

>Just eat the hits and shoot a few volleys with multi-shot bows.

Eating attacks seems really inefficient but if you have enough food, sure. You can parry his teleport cut (but not when his sword is electric) to get some damage but ideally you just prevent thunderblight from ever getting a shield and break its face in. The rest of the blights just die to arrows and stasis+.

Sure, but you're talking about dungeons and I'm talking about grottos/shrines. I understand where you're coming from, I'm just saying that shrines seem to function as improved grottos while the divine beasts were BotW's equivalent to dungeons (although I agree the divine beasts weren't as interesting as they could have been).

BotW was great, but it could stand to be harder.

Keep the weapon breaking system, but provide much fewer replacements.

Being able to tackle the environment with food or clothing or whatever is good, but maybe it's too easy, so make the environments harsh enough that you need to do more than just one thing to deal with it.

Make enemies smart enough to launch coordinated group efforts or use sneak strategies. They need to have some variation in spawn points, so they aren't always in the most expected places or conditions.

>it's a tutorial for bullet time
Oh boy, that's embarassing, since I only got to that mountain after about 20 hours. A fatal flaw of open ended gameplay, when you can run across a tutorial after you're almost half-way through the game. Almost as embarassing as when I ran into a minor test of strength shrine with silver lynel gear.

>All this stuff over game issues
I'm gonna start a new run of botw tomorrow with limitations. Will probably be on normal just because hard mode is dildos, but help me expand my list
>No food in combat
>Either no upgrading armor or limited to +2 for set bonus
>Little to no stamina upgrading (max here would be second bar)
>Minimal climbing, limited to certain types of terrain and/or only for scouting or areas requiring climbing
>Limited fast travel (towns only? towers only? stables only?)
>Revive limit (no fairies and Mipha only on bosses, fairies and no Mipha, none?)
>Weapon/Shield space limit?

breath of the wild had 75% perfection. The other 25% was the lack of actual dungeons and making weapons breakable and not finding treasures of said special weapons.
I didnt like that out the door your Tablet pretty much had all the special weapons for you. I want to earn those weapons while going into larger dungeons AND having a huge world to explore. Breath of the Wild was pretty fucking good. I loved the shit out of it. One portion was when you lose all your weapons and equipment on an island. that was a great idea.

I mean skyrim had dungeons. Wish Botw could do the same.

>You could say this about almost every Zelda game ever
Except in past Zelda games you could be given any number of unique and interesting items. Yes you can get heart pieces and rupees, but you could also get new items and upgrades. With shrines it is a spirit orb 100% of the time.

>So they put your runes to use
Ironically they are also the only thing that put runes to real use. You can literally beat the game wihthout using the runes a single time after beating the plateau. In fact, none of the items or abilities you get on the plateau are necessary and you could beat the game straight away without them had the game not forced you to collect them before proceeding. Shrines also only require the use of one rune at a time, further simplifying them.

>Virtually every Zelda puzzle is a one and done hurdle
Most sure, but not all. Puzzles in previous Zelda's could also have effects on large parts of a dungeon or the world itself. They're not all isolated like shrines. To give credit where credit is due, even the divine beasts have puzzles that affect the entire dungeon.

If you're not ignoring autosave and only saving at towns/campfires, then I don't really see the point of no fast travel.
You're just dooming yourself to having to fuck about in a lot of empty space.

This is everything I would avoid if you want to actually feel a little challenge.

>no grinding for OP weapons (that means scouring Hyrule castle early on)
>3 heart run
>no time stop
>no magnesis
>no bombs
>no arrows except stock
I did this during my challenge run, and I guess it helped? Still felt unrewarding due to the game constantly auto-saving behind me.

>Quantity over quality
I guess when you've got a bagful of dicks in your mouth it doesn't really matter how they look or feel

>Yes you can get heart pieces and rupees, but you could also get new items and upgrades. With shrines it is a spirit orb 100% of the time.

Only occasionally do you get new useful items and upgrades outside of dungeons. Also, there's nothing wrong with spirit orbs - if anything, they're far better than the heart pieces because now you have the choice of using them either for extra health or stamina.

>Ironically they are also the only thing that put runes to real use.

Absolutely false. Overworld puzzles and some sidequests put your runes to use as well.

>You can literally beat the game wihthout using the runes a single time after beating the plateau.

Nothing wrong with this. You can literally beat the game after beating the plateau period, but most people aren't going to go that route because they'd rather experience the rest of the game.

>They're not all isolated like shrines.

So what? They were literally designed to be isolated puzzles. I don't think it's going to be a series mainstay or anything if that's what you're concerned about, but they worked for what they were trying to accomplish.

True, I figured limiting to at least those three types of locations would make me feel more inclined to plan in some form.

That just sounds irritating and a bit boring. I don't want to remove all of the options in a fight, just constrain myself from it being super faceroll and "RG/climb to skip 85% of the world" stuff.

I'm asking for quantity and quality, like what BotW had, but stay mad.

>Minimal climbing
You'll be stuck on roads. Yuck. It would be more interesting to avoid roads than to avoid climbing.

My frustration lies not necessarily with shrines themselves but rather with no particular avenue for deeper, long term engagement with puzzle designs like the dungeons of old offered. BotW has more than enough content on that front but it presents all of it as if it were as relevant as grottos, there's a disappointing lack of a main event which in turn makes me want to look at what it did offer and think of how that could be revamped to become more of a main event thing. Honestly, I'd even be fine if every subregion of the overworld had their own main explorable structure that was on par with Hyrule Castle. Even if I wouldn't call it much of a puzzle gauntlet, it still was a location of sizable content with purpose and focus to its design, almost like a microcosm of BotW's exploratory nature condensed into one locale that screams "explore every inch of me, I fucking dare you". I feel like that would be the happy medium to realize between what BotW wants to be and what I want Zelda to be because really, I don't think puzzles are ever going to be the main event for this kind of Zelda.

Twilight Nigress

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>Only occasionally do you get new useful items and upgrades outside of dungeons
Depends on which Zelda we're talking about, and even so that's still variety. MM's sidequests would be far less fulfilling if all you got was a generic mask every time that only served as stepping stones towards Fierce Deity.

>Overworld puzzles and some sidequests put your runes to use as well.
Name some. I wasn't talking about chests hidden under stasis objects or the like, but actual sidequests. Either way, they're still not needed to beat the game.

>You can literally beat the game after beating the plateau period
Sure, but the fact that you can without using them emphasizes their lack of necessity. If you're going to criticize how many items in previous Zelda's lacked significance beyond their own dungeon, then runes being completely unnecessary to beating the game is also fair criticism.

>They were literally designed to be isolated puzzles.
Does it being intentional somehow make it good?

>they worked for what they were trying to accomplish.
They worked in terms of padding out an open world. The contents suffered as a result.

Cringe

Be BotW without the equipment degradation system.

Just stop sucking kid.

It's not about sucking. There's no incentive to fight enemies. Why waste weapons?

Unless you truly suck beyond all measure, you will constantly be picking up better weapons than you are losing.

World design by Monolith soft, like BotW, which seems to be all but guaranteed, so I'll love it.

>There's no incentive to fight enemies

Yes there is, you're just an idiot who doesn't understand what the game is trying to make you do. Maybe a pop-up cutscene and some handholding would help you.

>you will constantly be picking up better weapons than you are losing.
Hahahahaha, no. Most enemies don't drop arrows or bows and it sure is fun using my perfectly good swords on enemies that only have shit-tier clubs or other trash. Again, why should I waste my equipment when avoiding enemies achieves the same result?

>Twilight Princess

More like Midnight Princess.

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Use your brain a little when decided what you will wear out and use up. Everyone else has figured this out but you.

Needs to be 2d

>why should I waste my equipment when avoiding enemies achieves the same result?

Because monster parts and ingredients are important if you want to upgrade your various armour sets. Did you know that? Oh please go on and tell me it doesn't count, I love it when shitters do that.

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>Use your brain a little when decided what you will wear out and use up.
The weapon degradation system teaches you to use your weak, fragile equipment because everything is going to break anyway. There's never any reason to use your more powerful stuff casually because you don't want to waste it in random battles.

Why upgrade armor when you can just not get hit, bro?

Even small children understand recourse management. If you can't do that, maybe you should just stick to watching youtube players instead of involving yourself.

>Why upgrade armor when you can just not get hit, bro?

Because many armour sets offer special abilities and stat boosts when upgraded which have nothing to do with combat.

how about actual content and a none gay looking art style?
I am amazed that each Zelda game keeps looking worse art style wise

That was a mistranslation

>yo this stuff happened so go solve these puzzles. You’re the chosen one, literally no one else could possibly do it.
>hey Ganon was a fucking dick a while back and destroyed everything, help save our ruins and gypsy camps
>yo remember when this cute but generally inconsequential stuff happened forever ago? Memories are fun huh. Too bad you have no friends now, you lonely bitch.

A story line you participate in.
Also stop shilling this nonsensical sheikah tech. The series is starting to look like ass creed

Water Temple 2.0. Make the first one look like a walk in the park.