It wasn't harder than the average Souls game

Isshin's one of the very, very few exceptions most bosses cannot deal with defensive cheese at all. Even then Isshin's AI can be manipulated in the same way as most other bosses effectively halving his potential movepool by constantly attacking and pressuring him.

Sekiro is much easier as a game when you realise you do not have to focus on dodging except for grabs which can just be jumped over/away from.
That means you can full focus on attacking and parrying.
In souls games you need to think about spacing, poise, stamina, i frames with rolls mp etc

The demon of hate shows what happens when you insert a souls boss in sekiro, suddenly you have to dodge again, circlestrafe rely on butthits.

>by constantly attacking and pressuring him
That's not cheese, dumbass, that's how you're supposed to play.

People DO use broken builds 99% of the time in Souls. No one bothers getting something that isn't super optimal or just the already-super-optimal starting weapons anyway.
I know a dude who replayed DaS3 five times and used straight swords from start to end of all these playthroughs.

Is not letting Owl do any attacks besides his perfect deflect counter also how you're supposed to play? Because that's a slightly more extreme case of the exact same tactics that can be used to cheese out Isshin. Of course it's not the intended way to play, it's just the result of a poorly thought out gameplay system.

Not really, you can easily press Genchiro with attack and worry only about 3 types of counterattack after body slam. First phase Isshin every easier you can force him in attack-parry loop and beat under 30 seconds. Dunno about 2nd phase but 3rd phase is easy with lighting deflect.

They wanted it to feel out of the Souls players confort zone and it did succeed at that.
The lack of stamina was something I took quite a while to deal with, I often backed off for no reason because I was so used to let my stamina regen back.

Where's the fun on that?
In all of my Souls playthroughs I've never used two identical builds.

>Sekiro is much easier as a game
>In souls games you need to think about spacing, poise, stamina, i frames with rolls mp etc
Bullshit. The only thing you need to think about in Souls combat is iframe rolling.
Sekiro has at least three distinct basic responses to enemy attacks.

>Cheese
>Playing dirty
>SHINOBI FIGHTING DIRTY TO WIN
>OH NO
What is wrong with you?
Problem with trying to prolong a fight by hit and run is that when you fuck up once, you wasted 15 minutes of your life. If you instead play with parries you can get out 3 or more tries than being a ninja.

>press
>parry
>deflect
Lol, faggot. Just run around in a circle.

Did I even say that cheese is bad? Though honestly this "b-but it fits the theme" excuse is just shit, I don't care about the theme I care about good gameplay and firecracker spam, broken Corrupted Monk stealth kill exploit and other similar stuff isn't good gameplay. It's degenerate cheesy shit. It's the kind of thing that removing RPG mechanics was supposed to eliminate.

Of course it is.
If you can deflect enemy deflect counters, so they can't land a free hit on you, that just means you're good at the game. At playing it the right way.
Keeping constant pressure on the boss has a cost of constantly being at 99% posture yourself. So any fucked up deflect would break your posture.
Playing a game perfectly isn't a cheese, like it's not a cheese to do a no-hit attempt at a boss in DS. That just means your inputs were on point.
Also, once you beat Sekiro for the first time, you can play without the training wheels, i.e. Kuro's protective charm. Giving it up means you take damage from blocking, unless you deflect.

>Just run around in a circle.
You still want posture damage. Also Bosses especially with spears have ridiculous homing literally 90 degree change after jump or attack. Most times dodging wouldn't be enough without iframes.

I can't believe how fun the Lady Butterfly fight was. It was just the right amount of frustrating and challenging but fair. We traded blows, countered, and danced with each other. It's honestly not as hard as people are claiming, I struggled more with Bloodborne tbqh. Orphan is just an unfair dickhead. I just beat Lady Butterfly though and am heading to the Brazen Bull. Really great boss fight.

Except you ONLY need to deflect their counters if you manipulate their AI by attacking, which are consistently the easiest attacks to deflect that bosses have. Seriously it's possible to beat Owl without ever seeing the vast majority of his attacks, just by keeping him in that loop. It's not "the intended way to play", it's just an exploit of bad AI, and makes the game too one dimensional removing the varied counters and timings that different boss attacks and combos have.

>FROM didn't announce an easy mode on April Fool's for maximum salt mining
One job, Miyazaki.

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>Seriously it's possible to beat Owl without ever seeing the vast majority of his attacks, just by keeping him in that loop.
It's not possible. The AI has varied enough attack patterns and ways to disengage so they don't get looped. Unless it's a case of Memoryleakborne all over again and you fought bugged out bosses in your playthrough.

this
it's not an rpg where you can outfarm difficulty, every fight is pure skill on your end or cheeze

It's not harder than Dark Souls 1.0 release patch

The only thing he can do to disengage really is jump away which when done next to a wall means that you're given some free hits, other human type bosses have hyperarmor/jumping attacks that lets them escape the loops but only sometimes and never really stops you from going back in and restarting the loop. It works far too well.

>it's not an rpg where you can outfarm difficulty
You can collect up to 6/10 bead chains before you fight Genichiro for the first time.

still doesn't help much, he can still 2 shot you

I mean, bosses and some enemies require a lot more from you than Dark Souls. When was the last time you employed a different strategy than
>shield up
>roll to the side while hugging enemy
>fish for backstab
Even bosses fall for this, save for the backstab part.
Some bosses in Sekiro are impossible without learning their patterns. Dark Souls is much more forgiving

>impossible without learning their patterns
lol just run and wait for the inevitable big move that leaves them open for 5 seconds

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I dunno if its an issue with PC controls but how realistically are you supposed to dodge sweeps and jump-counter properly? You see the animation or the BOOM sound but if you're in the middle of a sword swing or dodge you can't jump in time usually. I've just been running away from grabs too because they all have insane tracking. Fun game though.

Nah bitch, I got a win without posture bs. If you do enough damage, the last few hits will max posture. Suck it. And attack fast enough, no 180 bs. Get gud.

So can almost every mini-boss and boss? Genchiro took me 2 tries when I was at like 2-3 prayer beads. Although tbf I reset till I beat him in the prologue. His patterns are pretty much the same. If you beat Lady Butterfly, Genchiro should be no problem. In particular Genshiro is more predictable after you clash against him. Off the top of my head, Butterfly could backstep after two clashes and throw daggers, attack you after the 2nd hit, attack you after the 3rd hit, use her sweep attack, do a ground pound, basically be more of a cunt than Genchiro ever was. She was much less exploitable.

You can't jump mid-attack animation so you're supposed to anticipate it. The timing is fair, just get used to it and git gud.

It's very manageable after you've learned that you (mostly) should not play it like a souls game.

It sounds to me like you fundamentally misunderstand what boss design is, and what the design philosophy behind this game is.

Sweep attacks usually have longer startups than the other attacks. Plus I believe your own attacks can be cancelled early into animation. And enemies don't usually use perilous attacks from neutral stance, but mostly as a deflect counter, so you can anticipate them if you get deflected. And quite a few of the perilous attacks can actually get interrupted if you just hit the enemy with your own attacks.

Go all in dumbass. You can break them if you do not hesitate.

Explain it to me then. The design philosophy behind this game was to trim the fat from the usual Souls formula and make a combat system that's balanced around more or less the same player build, making it focused. Bosses are designed to test your proficiency at most mechanics, which is why AI loops and exploits are bad because they only stress usage of very limited tools or tactics.

>I think the memes are real and people have always been very dependent on summons and broken builds.

Pretty much. Sekiro is also the first of these From Software games that actually forces players to know how to parry. You can go through any of the previous Soulsborne games without knowing how to parry, but not in Sekiro.

Can you deflect sweeps/grabs?

>Summon on all bosses
>Let my friend beat Sekiro for me on bosses I got stuck on (only 40% of them, pretty good)
>Got the plat on my account still
Nice

No, you can only deflect perilous thrust attacks, but can't block them.
Grabs can be dodged away from or iframed through, although the window is still small.
Sweep attacks must be jumped over, and ignore dodge iframes I believe. But as long as your feet are off the ground you will take no damage from them, even if the enemy weapon model touches you.

I agree, it's hard, but not exceptionally harder than any of the souls games, just a little bit different.

Just beat Owl 2 after like 5 tries vs like fucking 100 on Sword Saint. People kept saying Owl 2 was hard as shit so I was worried but you just have to rush him and trade attacks with him often instead of letting him control the fight. It's also easy to get him into a corner and keep on hitting him when he tries to jump back to safety and keeps ending up in the same place. Eventually he'll get around to escaping via fire crackers but you get a lot of easy damage in if you're parrying along the way

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You're right, but the fact that you can't summon anyone to help steamroll levels and bosses for you already makes Sekiro the hardest of the games by default.

yeah, guess I should have pointed out that I never summoned anyone while playing souls because I'm not a fucking casual. I understand doing it because it's fun and have summoned a lot but never on the first playthrough

Pretty much. I’m sure enemies would be cake if they could only focus on one shinobi at a time.

Why did they use the headless ape boss twice anyways.

As proof, just look at the Juzou the Drunkard fight. If you have the NPC with you, then you can easily just attack him while his attention is on the NPC.

Imagine if the NPC was actually a skilled player who knew how to properly block all of Juzou's attacks.

Because it's immortal.
Even if you get the Gracious Gift of Tears before the Ape fight, it still lives, because you have no option to end it right then and there.

Not him, but after you beat the ape the first time, you already pull out his centipede and stab it. He should have had his immortality severed already by that point.

they reused a ton of the bosses and boss attacks. Probably cycles into my only really big complaint about the game which is a lack of content. Of course when you compare it to other games being released these days it has a shitton but as it was released after the souls games a bloodborne it feels rather small

It doesn't matter if you stab it with any normal sword though. Plus it's a big Ape and can host many centipedes. Mostly the former though, you need a mortal blade.

At least the moved away from some many big guy with sword bosses that 2 and 3 had. Apart from the apes and the centipedes what other bosses got reused? Is underwater headless different enough to get a pass?

I thought they were two different apes?

I haven't played any of the other Souls games, but Bloodborne (the one Souls game I did play) recycles a lot of stuff as well.

Even when you beat Rom and go back into Unseen Village, the first thing you see are Yharnamite villagers and the Hemwick women. Then you see deformed mutant werewolves that have the same moves as the regular werewolves from the start of the game. Later on, when you're at Nightmare of Mensis, you see Shadows of Yharnam being recycled, as well as the giant pigs.

Not to mention the Chalice Dungeons is like 50% recycled enemies.

You thought wrong.

I guess I shouldn't have said bosses, because that implies they are reused as a whole. But a lot of the minibosses are upgrades from eachother that just throw in a couple of attacks and maybe some timing changes. The first miniboss you fight, the miniboss right after the ogre, and the drunkard miniboss are all essentially the same boss. The drunkard is just the most upgraded of them with the most attacks and is thus the most tough.

Holy shit this would've been hilarious

who are you quoting

The game's on Easy mode by default. You only get an option to switch to Normal after you finish it once.

I finally got Isshin to phase 4 lads, I'll have the cunt soon enough... maybe.
Probably not.

the spear phase fucks me up

There was one "helper" I've seen that helps you fight a mini-boss. The first drunken guy you fight in the past protecting the gate to Lady Butterfly had a guy that joins you in fighting. So there is at least one helper.

nah NG+ is easymode because you get to keep all your gourds and shit. The only place that it is actually harder is vs the final bosses since the difficulty changes actually come into play there. But going through most of the early and mid game with fully upgraded everything is easy

Should I worry about this Dragonrot shit? I don't carry if it only stops the unseen aid but if it limits my quests and bosses I can fight, I'll be disappointed.

I'm not talking about NG+, I'm talking about Kuro's Charm. After you beat the game once, you have an option to play it without the training wheels. On NG+ or when you start a new save file both.

the spear phase fucks everyone up, just keep throwing yourself against the wall and eventually you will just start seeing his attacks coming before they do and will parry/block accordingly. I believe in you user.
Oh and a small tip, save all your firecrackers for the final phase and use them all up to take down as much of his health as you can before you actually start to go for posture

The game overall felt a lot easier than DS for me. The only exception being was Demon Of Hatred, because he plays like a DS boss, expect you're not really equiped for that.

no, die as often as you want and give dragonrot to everyone - when you want to continue on with the npc questline use the cure.
Rinse and repeat.

It's such a nothing mechanic.

All it does is stop an afflicted character’s particular quest line until they heal, they won’t die even though that’s heavily implied. And unseen aid is negligible.

good point, I completely forgot about that. I didn't end up using it since I wanted to go for achievements but maybe I'll give it a try after getting 100%

You have to tone down your aggression a little bit on the spear phase, because he gets plenty of attacks with superarmor once he gets the spear out. So you have to deflect the entire combos and then punish the final stab with mikiri.

>even though that’s heavily implied.
The translation is really poor in this game. Not only do they not die as the game implies, but also Kuro's resurrection hinders Dragonrot, not spreads it further. It's so dumb.

I remember when I was speaking to Doujun (the white guy in the Abandoned Dungeon) for the first time, he mentioned the name Dogen. And the subtitles spell his name as both "Dogen" and "Dougen".

It's clear that they didn't proofread that section at least.

oh and another tip, if you have trouble with that really large combo with the thrust at the end (I always did because the parry timing is so weird) just parry the first few hits since they come easily and hold block for the rest so he still goes in for the thrust. This ensures that you can still get the mikiri counter on him for that nice damage.

The giraffe centipede is the worst by far. user in another thread explained that its Japanese title is Kirin, which is a mythical beast. But in modern Japanese it literally translates as giraffe and whoever was in charge didn’t bother to check.

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I wonder if the people who found this game exceptionally hard have never played other action games besides the souls franchise. I had a harder time with MGR on Revengeance difficulty than anything in Sekiro and both games are focused on parrying.

He's called Girafu, not Kirin or Jiraffe.

This is bullshit though. I finished MGR on hardest with ease while first playthrough on Sekiro pushes your shit in around every corner. MGR becomes easy mode once you learn to abuse parry.

Anyone with Yea Forums X not auto-updating threads? Is this the annual April Fools epic prank fucks up browsing?

Nothing in these games are truly hard. It's just trial and error against PvE scripted bosses. True difficulty is PvP.