Jenova or Sephiroth

>can't sage without putting it into all fields and doesn't know what it's proper use is for
newfag

Sephiroff

>that direct valve to her tit milk
m-m-MOMMY

>Aerith is canon
Will forever be a retcon to the english version though, lol

Attached: 1845379.jpg (631x455, 70K)

Jenova of course. Sephiroth is just doing what every other one of Jenova's puppets is.

But wasn't Sephiroth's mind fucked up on mako or something? Sephiroth wasn't working under his own resolve at any rate, he was made crazy by something, probably Jenova

Jenova then Sephiroth three times.

>proof of burden

sauce?

i'm dyslexic

Attached: ffsagcs.jpg (300x480, 44K)

Attached: 1845379 - Aeris_Gainsborough Final_Fantasy_VII Red_XIII RoxyRex.png (1036x358, 17K)

I didn't really follow FF7's story tbqh, and I haven't played it in 20 years so what was once unclear has become basically unintelligible

Hoping the remake sheds some light on things, but with Nomura in the helm I find that very unlikely

He's right user. Also 'One the Way to a Smile' and Advent Children. It's actually a hell of a trippy ride; Sephiroth overpowered JENOVA with his superior will and manifested via pieces of her through the game, and after he died for realz at the end he started to lose his individuality and memories yet (again, due to willpower) kept the core of his self and his hatred, and the three Brothers/Advent Children are elements of his psych manifested to find a chunk remaining of JENOVA (it isn't her actual head, there could be others, elsewhere) so he can manifest properly. It's Cloud's memories that allow him to appear as his true self. And that was also his goal; he never intended to win and kill Cloud, or at least, he was prepared not to, and the entire point was to engrave the memory of himself even more deeply (and his ever present threat of return) into Cloud so that this would keep him together in the lifestream and he can keep returning.

I actually really like it, but it is convoluted as fuck.

Attached: 1541475263995.gif (320x180, 561K)

Also something something dark lifestream choking the world something something geostigma. It's been a few months.

>Sephiroth overpowered JENOVA with his superior will and manifested via pieces of her through the game
this is an incredibly implausible premise

It may well be a retcon, but the 'sad' (depending if you like it or not) fact is that it's the official explination for the Compilation, and likely 7Remake since SE has such a boner for Sephiroth. The retcon, if it was such, likely came from the fact that their most iconic villain actually only turns up for about twenty minutes across the whole game and otherwise it would be JENOVA.

The idea is that when you see him/talk to him he is ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL, and then he releases it and you fight mommy parasite chunk. It's why it's him that murders Aerith, looks cheekily at Cloud as he withdraws the blade, and then you fight JENOVA instead of him after he finishes talking.

It really only makes sense if its Jenova, Once he learned he wasn't an ancient Sephiroth really has no reason to summon meteor, he was actually a pretty good guy before Nibelheim.

You're fighting Jenova mind-controlled by Sephiroth the entire time, who you fight for reals in the final fight at the end.

tl;dr Dude with self-esteem problems fools everyone.

The most obvious interpretation is that the story was originally written with the idea in mind that Sephiroth was controlled. All the storytelling elements are there. Sephiroth used to be a normal guy, the story makes sure to draw attention to this important fact. He was experimented on, injected with the cells of a space monster that eats planet, and he decided it was always his dream to eat planets. It's straight forward story telling. The story didn't spell out whether Sephiroth or Jenova was in control, which is understandable since there are no character in the story with the authority to make this judgement unbiased, but the audience had room for suspicion. All things considered, Sephiroth sure changed behavior abruptly when he came in contact with mind altering alien gunk and he sure started doing exactly what it wanted. There are few arguments to justify he was always sane and in control, that he was not affected at by overpowering alien instincts to consume planets. If Sephiroth had been designed as a psychopath and shown from the start to be cruel and mentally unstable, and if Jenova was neutral and not inherently evil, then it would be believable that the injection of alien gunk didn't pervert Sephiroth's personality, but that's clearly not how the developers chose to write the most basic elements of the story.

BUT.

During the development of the game, due to character design and final delivery, Sephiroth became a fan favorite character. The fans loved the Cloud/Sephiroth rivalry. The original ambiguous mind-altered villain didn't titillate the fanbase as much as a tragic anti-hero. So the developers did what is logical: they made things less ambiguous, they built up Sephiroth's character, and eventually made canon (if answering an interview makes canon) that Sephiroth was always in control, to not take away the glory of the cult character they created.

Attached: what a gay ass shit character.jpg (296x400, 15K)

>this is an incredibly implausible premise
Not really. Jenova and the Planet (which is superior to Jenova) can't integrate, so Sephiroth as a hybrid can't dissolve into the Lifestream and through learning enough of the secrets of the Planet five years in, overpowers Jenova. This neatly explains why Jenova lays dormant from the Nibelheim incident to the game proper, if it's alive and in control. Meaning that it's not.

Basically, and written material basically reinforces your BUT.

Attached: 58554547_p0.png (1920x1080, 2.66M)

>and he decided it was always his dream to eat planets. It's straight forward story telling.
That's completely wrong. When Sephiroth lost his mind he (mistakenly) thought that Jenova was one of the Cetra and literally his mother. He learned the truth during is time in the lifestream.

Sephiroth's corpse controlled by JENOVA

The final fight being against actual Sephiroth is one of the best things about FF7. You actually get to fight the antagonist not only some god angel monster thing.

>if answering an interview makes canon
And it doesn't. Making things up as you go isn't an excuse for why things should be interpreted differently than what you built them up as. Sephiroth was a puppet and his motives make no sense if you consider him an independent operative

Both. The game was built off of Xenogears, where the plot explores id, ego and superego.

Sephiroth, Jenova, and the One Winged Angel are three aspects of the self as well as the father, son and holy ghost.

>Sephiroth as a hybrid
>can't dissolve into the Lifestream
Wait, fuck, does that mean Cloud is fucked too in that sense (i.e. no peace and floating in the lifestream with Aerith for as long as she allows herself to stay an individual) then? The entire late game and even Advent Children are basically about how he is the one being closest to Sepiroth and the only successful clone/recreation fo the experiment, and is full of her cells too. That could even be what Sephiroth is angling after. The two of them tied together, keeping eachother individual in the lifestream, for all time until he wins.

Attached: 1541787700301.jpg (500x408, 71K)

Attached: Final-Fantasy-VII-1038x576.jpg (1038x576, 105K)

>And it doesn't.
A good thing that On the Way to a Smile also confirms this, and it's not just interviews.

>The game was built off of Xenogears, where the plot explores id, ego and superego.
What? Xenogears came out YEARS after FF7.

I figured it was a combination of both. The way I see it, Sephiroth learned the truth of his existence and the JENOVA cells in him "activated", sort of telling Jenova that he was now fully available to become one of her puppets-- potentially her ultimate puppet. He was definitely feeling superior to everyone else, so he had a God complex going on, meaning that it's not like he went from nice guy to evil for no real reason. His natural response was to feel superior to everyone and feel entitled to owning the planet.

After that, I'd say it's 50/50. Sephiroth himself probably was going to murder everyone at Shinra HQ anyway even if Jenova was out of the picture. So in an alternate timeline, Cloud and friends find him at the Shinra HQ top office with everyone around him dead, and I figure at that point he'd just stop caring and stop fighting. But with Jenova, the other half of him that is being manipulated wants to become a god by injuring the planet with Meteor. So in a way they are both using each other, for completely different reasons: Sephiroth wants to go through with the plan because he thinks of himself as a superior being, while Jenova is more animal-like and just wants to blow up planets because that's what she/it does.

It was originally FF7. But it became too complex for its own good and split off into its own project.

Why the fuck do you think this is in 7?

Attached: Zeno Gias.jpg (800x600, 421K)

Originally it was Jenova. 7 makes it clear about this, but fans and Nomura ended up getting a huge hard on for Sephiroth, so he started changing it post release in interviews and stuff like Advent Children. So Jenova first then Sephiroth

Similar point: Vincent is Sephiroth's dad. They even fucking look the same.

Did Cloud and Zack pretty much save the planet in the reactor? If Sephiroth hadn't ended up impaled and then thrown into the lifestream at that point, and both had just been murdered there, there would have been fuck all that Aerith alone as a 16 year olf girl with no allies could have done to stop him. If the planet had even managed to warn her properly.

Attached: 1543251091758.png (480x272, 142K)

was this actually in the game? god I remember so little

Nomura is such a hack

They could have just bombed him.

Arguably didn't they RUIN the planet by throwing Sephiroth into the Lifestream?

>doll crotch

what a waste

This is right at the start of Cloud's crazy wheelchair adventures.

>mistakenly
A mistake you say? Jenova is a sentient entity that purposely attempt to manipulate creatures through their memories. It was said to impersonate the dead loved ones of the Cetra. So did Sephiroth really bump his head and mistook an alien terror for his mom? Can we call that a random mistake of someone with a headache? Of course Sephiroth would say "I wasn't controlled, I was just confused". The things he say don't really match the things he did, which seems to be the original intention of the storytelling. Maybe if he apologized for the trouble he caused, laid down his sword, went home and became a family man then we would have a good reason to believe he overcame the alien influence inside him. But he acted a bit different from that. For someone who overcame his programming he certainly didn't return to being the person he used to be.

Oh 100%. His fanfiction tier retcons are the entire reason some normies don't get FF7.

the PC translation changed it to this

Attached: hqdefault.jpg (480x360, 20K)

I want to fuck that ancient.

No it was always Sephiroth. Fucking Hojo explains it in Midgar. Both thematically and dramatically, it makes more sense for it to be Sephiroth because of its impact on Cloud's character arc.

Yeah, I never understood why Dirge 'confirmed' it to be Hojo (if I'm recalling right) when this was clearly the original intent.

>He was experimented on, injected with the cells of a space monster that eats planet, and he decided it was always his dream to eat planets
His dad did that shit to him when he was a fetus. it's different than the people in Soldier.

user means "mistakenly" as in "incorrectly."

That translation is so trash. It doesn't fix the actual problems and makes most dialogue even worse.

Hojo was always the father. Did any of you fucks play the game?

This is true, but I think it's to the detriment of the game's story. In my opinion, Sephiroth's backstory works a lot better if he's just another victim of Jenova.

Square pulled the same shit with FF8 where official revelations made after the fact actually only made the story worse.

>That image series of Red XIII anal raping basically all the girls in FF7 and FF10

Attached: 1231356554171.gif (240x221, 3.72M)

Because everyone who worked on supplemental FFVII material (sans Before Crisis, maybe, kinda) is a mouth breathing retard who doesn't understand basic writing and took everything at face value. Vincent thinks he got cucked so he got cucked. Sephiroth is the name on the screen so Sephiroth was in control the whole time and Jenova had no influence over his mind. Zack was a huge hero and not just some dude.

>bombed him
I really doubt that would have worked. Aside from being a General and knowing Shinra military tactics (probably having made most of them), he would have had a sizable following of willing SOLDIERs who idolized him more than they were loyal to Shinra if he wanted his own army, AND he was still superhuman to a ludicrous degree and could probably have fought and won against anything they could field without breaking a sweat.

Hojo is the father in the way Jenova never warped Sephiroth's mind. AKA, it's canon if you're a fucking idiot who doesn't think about plot points presented to you.

Also, this was explained in FF7, not in any compilation stuff. So Sephiroth was part Jenova even before he was born from Lucretia.

There's nothing to Jenovah. She is a plot device through which the fallout of the Nibelheim incident as it concerns Cloud and Sephiroth's relationship plays out.

Why does Sephiroth look so much like a fucking girl?

Cloud was never a master soldier badass, he was basically just a grunt. The very first pair of enemies you battle are the same rank Cloud was 3 years or so before the events of the game, and his marginal strength over them is the result of traumatic mind-destroying experiments.
Cloud killed Sephiroth by sneaking up on him and using retard strength to hurl Sephiroth down a well.
Sephiroth is a mako-enhanced human/Jenova cells hybrid. It can be deduced based on Cloud's 1v1 with Shirtless sephiroth at the end of the game that Sephiroth was controlling Jenova, as that sequence represented Cloud overcoming Sephiroth's recurring influence on his mind, and its Sephiroth not Jenova.
Jenova is the gross torso you find in the shinra building, and that gross torso is also the sephiroth you're chasing up until the events in the north crater.
The Jenova critters you battle throughout the game are hunks of Jenova that the torso sheds after babbling Sephiroths telepathic megalomania.

I know you didnt actually ask and some user will dispute all this, but i like talking about this game.

Bad anime artist. Sephiroth's face and hair aren't even lined up in correct perspective in the official art.

Except the implication in basic bitch FF7 is that Vincent was fucking Lucy while being her bodyguard, and Sephiroth's 'real' father. Hell, take AC Vincent, put him in a leather jacket, and give him silver hair and green eyes and you have Sephiroth.

Is this really a proper response to someone properly answering your question?

Shit like this is why I don't trust modern SE with a FF7 remake.

Yeah, but I wasn't talking about Jenova, I was talking about Sephiroth.

Jenova "works" either way by being the alien macguffin that drives the entire plot. She doesn't need a personality any more than, say, Chrono Trigger's Lavos needed a personality.

No, no, you're all wrong. FF7 was really about Cloud discovering his homosexuality and coming in terms with it. That's why Aeris and Sephiroth look almost identical and Sephiroth kills Aeris.

Attached: cloudisgay.jpg (1288x1200, 379K)

No but really Sephiroth was just some elite / super human soldier before he was thrown in the lifestream. He wasn't a borderline invincible God like he was after.

Did Cloud fuck up by throwing him into the Lifestream?

Specious and contradicts what the game reveals in your last dramatic encounter with Hojo. Stop with the headcanon.

>Vincent and Lucretia are romantically involved.
>Vincent gets zombo'd.
>Lucretia suddenly has a baby who is being experimented on.
>Baby comes out looking like Lucretia and Vincent.

Did Hojo
A. Cuck Vincent with his total chadness and then experiment on his son
or
B. Lie, as he is known to do
The answer may surprise you!

That confused me. They set up an elaborate tragedy and then ditched it.

the final boss in all forms and who you fight in the Lifestream directly is Sephiroth you utter fucking retards

Clouds crazy wheelchair adventures made FF7 for me. Or what made it memorable, Not aeris dying.

>FF7 theories causing so much asshurt even all these years later

Nothing's changed. I swear this shit is going to be a religion someday

>Did Cloud fuck up by throwing him into the Lifestream?
Yeah, but in his defense there's no way he could've possibly known that. Any normal person would've been fucking dead and just get absorbed into the lifestream like all dead souls.

I agree with you right up until Zack. I kind of like what they did with him and he is in my top 5 FF heroes because of how unique he is. They made him the perfect jRPG hero... and then he died in a horrific way to save our more flawed hero, alone, unmourned, and largely forgotten by history. Yet none of FF7 could have happened if you hadn't hidden Cloud and made that last stand. (And then he gets to stand watching Aerith get wet over Cloud being heroic between naps in the lifestream.)

More than once I've been tempted to buy his Play Arts model for my desk, before pinching myself and remembering it's a chunk of fucking plastic for a hundred bucks.

Attached: zack_by_dimension_dino-d99gkc2.png (590x361, 200K)

>Characters can not lie or be mistaken.
We're talking about the same game where Sephiroth thought Jenova was his actual mom.

He gains nothing by lying to you. It detracts from his warped motive to help his son/experiment. You're spouting headcanon.

The MCs would have been the Turks and Rufus protecting Aerith.

I absolutely appreciate the personality they gave him, but everything that jerks him off in the game is terrible. He was a pretty high class soldier, but not some anime meme hero. He was just a dude trying his best.

That's already happened.

youtube.com/watch?v=lFRjrLmc_4c

You're mistaken, not the game. Stop steering the plot where you want it to go. If you start baselessly claiming a character was mistaken in their pronouncements, where does it end?

>He gains nothing by lying to you.
He gains nothing for helping Sephiroth, as Cloud points out in the very same scene. He is literally screaming with mad laughter. At that point in the story he is literally just trolling everyone.

All of this is also ignoring he could have just assumed he was the father and was mistaken.

>the final boss in all forms and who you fight in the Lifestream directly is Sephiroth
hmmm

Attached: maxresdefault(17).jpg (1280x720, 139K)

>as that sequence represented Cloud overcoming Sephiroth's recurring influence on his mind
If that sequence was a mental battle between Cloud and the influence on his mind then doesn't that mean it has nothing to do whether Sephiroth or Jenova was in control? Cloud simply fought the person he was obsessed over the most, and that happened to be Sephiroth? By the same logic if some random NPC who's father was killed by Jenova fell into the hole they would see Jenova not Sephiroth as their fated opponent, is that right? I don't understand how that final battle can be a mental conflict / personal metaphor and also the physical truth.

Shut the fuck up nigger, she is literally the step before you go into the direct lifestream you utter retard.

The game is what suggests he's lying or mistaken in the first place by introducing a character he saw fit to lock away who was romantically interested in Sephiroth's mother and is the spitting image of him.

May as well take Kefka at his word on everything while you're at it.

A fusion of both. He fell into the mako reactor in Mt Nibel, got flushed into the lifestream and ended up materia'd in the northern crater. Jenova summons all the failed experiments carrying her cells to the reunion in the crater, in order to fuse them with Sephiroth in order to be complete again. You interrupt her rebirth by reaching crystal Sephiroth, hence why you end up fighting Jenova, who was overseeing everything, a bizarro fucked-up Sephiroth then some incomplete one-winged angel.

The plan was for Jenova to ressurect, summon the meteor to crack the planet open, slurp on its delicous juices then fly off in the sunset for her next sandwich

>and his marginal strength over them is the result of traumatic mind-destroying experiments.
>marginal
They have fucking rifles, there are two of them, and he cuts them both down in one slash each while they helplessly shoot at at him; which in live action he probably would have dodged or blocked with the sword looking at other material. At the start of FF7 Cloud is clearly still skilled and powerful enough to convince people he was SOLDIER, even if his skill and physical abilities are clover to 3rd Class until later in the game. Shit like using materia, jumping onto the moving train, into the moving train from the top, surviving the fall from the plate, ect, seperate him from normal humans like the other AVALANCHE members. And the fact he wields the fucking Buster Sword like it's made of cardboard.

But Sephiroth was the one mind controlled by Jenova...

It's both. Sephiroth haunts Cloud not just via Jenovah cells.

>More than once I've been tempted to buy his Play Arts model for my desk, before pinching myself and remembering it's a chunk of fucking plastic for a hundred bucks.
It's also from easily the worst toy line in that price range...

That's not the final boss.

>she is literally the step before you go into the direct lifestream

Attached: splitting-hairs.png (350x239, 60K)

It can't be both. If the battle is affected in any way by Cloud's state of mind then that battle isn't the objective truth and therefore it can't be used as evidence to confirm or deny whether Sephiroth or Jenova is ultimately in control.

>those HP

Nope, Sephiroth was injected by Jenova cells but his willpower was stronger so he overtook her instead.

I wish we had a game where Cloud could be in his best costume (the motorcycle one here)

G-Bike>SOLDIER=AC>KH

Attached: Cloud_artwork.jpg (2454x1296, 496K)

There are 3 final bosses in FF7

Jenova Synthesis
Bizarro Sephiroth
Safer Sephiroth

>Bizarro Sephiroth
>Safer Sephiroth
Those are just different phases of the same last boss.

Can we all agree that Cloud's original buster sword is a better design than his meme multi-sword abomination from the movie.

Both can be true in a way. Jenovah influences Sephiroth in his objectives, but Sephiroth is the mind behind his own actions, and he freely uses Jenovah's power

What? Cloud vanquishes his tormentor while simultaneously ridding himself of the Jenovah cells' physiological hold over him. It's both literal and figurative.

I like the First Tsurugi, but I have to admit that the only practical purpose for it is the new Omnislash

It's the mark of a truly great game and why it's so well regarded. But it's also the George Lucas effect in action. The more they retcon and explain the less interesting it gets because there is less room for imagination to work in and the retcons are usually subpar or badly thought out. I'm both looking forwards to FF7 but also scared it's basically going to be basically built on all the shittier retcons and later ideas instead of being a distillation of the soul of FF7.

Ah well, at least 4k Midgar will be purdy. Bet they wil shrink Tifa's tatas though.

Attached: FF7Market.gif (640x480, 622K)

Brevity is the soul of wit

It makes more sense narratively as an allegorical showdown but there's literally nothing wrong with cloud having a telepathic swordfight with his shirtless idol

Bustersword go smash and soldier go splat. Better?

Yes. It's also a better design than the later Buster Swords.

When does Hojo lie about anything? AFAIK the worst he does is be incredibly vague about what Reunion is about.

Attached: hojo-on-the-beach1.jpg (400x280, 120K)

Is Ultimecia 1 a phase of the later 2 Ultimecias even though Griever comes in between?

The game is good and largely unambiguous. The plot is straightforward but people like to get lost in the weeds of the technical in-universe details without considering the dramatic arc that the events of the game must satisfy. Sephiroth is Cloud's foil. It is Sephiroth against whom the party struggles. It couldn't be more simple.

Something can't be both literal and figurative. It's not deep or complex, it's just wrong. If Cloud doesn't see and fight something strictly real then it isn't strictly real. If someone else could fall in that hole and see something else then shirtless Sephiroth isn't the confirmed final shape of the final.

>Give us your daughter
>No way fag lol
>FOILED AGAIN, WELL GET YOU NEXT TIME
What the fuck was up with the Turks and their inability to kidnap Aeris?

In a sense yeah. It's the spectre of Sephiroth looming over Cloud. Whether he's even still a cognizant person or some other entity entirely now is irrelevant to the point of his character, just like "WHERE THE FUCK DOES NECRON COME FROM" doesn't fucking matter.

Jesus fucking Christ. The allegory in FF7 is as subtle as a brick to the head and you still can't grasp it. Read more.

Your point doesn't make sense because Barrett pukes bullets all over the very same enemies who just soak it up too, and he takes even less bullet damage than science experiment cloud based on his stats. My point was that overexplaining the how and why was meaningless because the more you elucidate the more contradictions arise, whereas I was referring to Cloud posessing the ability to shoot lightning out of his dick instead of exclusively wielding his weapon.

This exchange has been an unintentional meta commentary on the very state of contemporary FFVII plot speculation, where the more questions are answered, the more and also more confusing questions emerge as a result.

It's not a discussion about allegories. It's a discussion about whether the shape of the final enemy can be used as evidence for the discussion whether Sephiroth or Jenova is ultimately in control. If someone could fall in that hole and see something other than Sephiroth then it's not valid evidence. There is nothing metaphorical or complex about this simple discussion.

Off topic since I haven't played FF 7 in 17 years but did Cloud and Tifa cannonically bang? Someone brought that up recently.

There are two routes in ff7. In one of them, Cloud and Tifa bang just before the last dungeon.

But I'm not concerned about the material justification for who is in control, though that too proves my position. Who cares about the physics of it? Its more compelling to know that it is Sephiroth's evil ambition that is stayed by Cloud, who has finally allowed himself to step out from the former's shadow.

>just some elite/super human soldier
Sephiroth is one of the three most powerful humanoid entities on the planet before the events of ff7.
And cloud also literally had no other option throw him down there, cloud was just some fucking nobody shitter back then. What did you want from the kid?

Yes, it is HEAVILY IMPLIED that Cloud and Tifa fug under the highwind near the end of the game.

That's why I mentioned the other shit he did and survived that points towards his superhuman/'alien' nature that other characters don't do, and you tried to be witty. He consistantly performs in ways that impress the people around him, or surpise them like flipping into a moving train, or surviving the fall. These are outside combat examples and thus hold more weight because they can't be handwaved as 'game mechanics lol'.

I do take your point though, while still holding to my own. Cloud was always something special even if he was just pretending to be SOLDIER. It was never just his attitude that sold it.

Idk it's all headcanons. Maybe after AC so that Cloud finally stops thinking about Aeris and realizes the waifu that's been in front of him all along. He's always had a thing for Tifa but I feel like he acts too beta around her despite her obviously being into him

The game has four final bosses. You fight Jenova, Sephiroth, Sephiroth and Sephiroth, in that order.

Pretty obvious really if you played the game.

Also Sephiroth controlled Jenova but was also under her influence to some extent. Especially in Advent Children where his motivations have warped to become exactly the same as Jenova's.

>But I'm not concerned about the material justification for who is in control
then you misread the thread and you shouldn't have answered to any of these posts but I guess you really wanted to prove your grasp on video game metaphorical knowledge that poor peasants cannot understand as well as you

>cloud was just some fucking nobody shitter back then. What did you want from the kid?
To add to this, just a nobody kid who had the masamune half way through his torso, and yet found with will and rage to lift the legendary SOLIDER up by his own sword, by the fucking blade, and throw him. Cloud was a fucking badass all along deep down.

How the hell did he get 2 babes with him? Big dick energy? Secret chad?

Still up to the player's choices. (One could reasonably claim that their relationship is too cold in AC for that to have happened.) Personally I find it highly unlikely Cloud's affection points were low for either of them, so to me he went on a date with Aerith and fucked Tifa under the Highwind.

But if you merely mean to ask if the high affection scene is fucking officially? Yes.

Shinra money.

He is probably in the top ten richest men on the planet, and well known to be high up in ShinRa. Bitches love money and success.

You're just a brainlet who can't grasp videogame plots written for young teens.

Sephiroth is dramatically better as the villain because he serves as a foil to Cloud (find out dark secret about your past that changes all you knew about yourself, go mad and decide to cause havoc upon the whole world vs find out dark secret about your past that changes all you knew about yourself, go mad and overcome it fighting to defend the planet alongside your friends).
Jenova's just an alien who cares

That's three babes. Don't underestimate him. Yes, he was definitely a chad. Lucrecia too can vouch for him.

>implied

Attached: fugg time.jpg (253x199, 8K)

I love how people still discuss what the fuck happened in FF7 22 years later.

why can't people grasp this.

I'm not blaming Cloud for doing it, was just kind of a curse when you think about it. No matter how powerful you think Sephiroth was pre-Lifestream, there's no way the outcome would have been worse than what ended up happening.

Yes that's an implication

The game had a really convoluted story, and there are new generations of people now who never played it back then and only know about it by second hand knowledge

That is what is great about Hojo. I have a feeling like his entire purpose in the game is to be a massive troll. He trolls everyone. He trolls Vincent, Sephiroth, the entire party numerous time. All for the lulz.

Seriously, he is one step away from being the the trol-ololololo guy from that video.

Everyone on the airship tell later that they were watching them fuck and Tifa runs away in shame.

>Everyone on the airship tell later that they were watching them fuck
Yes user of course they do.

In the original game, it was Jenova. All of the additional work retconned it to being Sephiroth.

I like when people still have discussions about something years later when the source material is cleverly planned and has lot of hidden clues and depths. Sadly this is one of those situation where the plot is a clusterfuck due to poor planning and the conversation still goes on today because the direction of the story clearly changed along the way and old story elements became thematically inconsistent and therefore confusing.

There were no retcons, retard. The Ultimania guidebook that came out alongside FF7 confirmed it was always Sephiroth.

Which one was your waifu? If that changed over time, which was one the first?

Attached: ff7 mains.jpg (820x620, 94K)

Yes that is why after Jenova's original form is dead you still fight Sephiroth and them fight his spirit personally inside the Lifestream/Cloud's mind. Idiot.
Also see

What's wrong with the Fusion Sword? it's concept is ridiculous but it has good design and Cloud utilizes it well throughout the movie with the constant sword switching.

In 1997 I was thirteen years old. Yuffie was the shit. She was spunky, young, short haired, awesome. Tifa was okay, Aerith looked like an old lady. Then once you grow up and stop being a pedophile, you realise that Tifa's tits are to die for and that Aerith is probably the one that's a freak in the sack.

>motherfucker didn't like big tits when he was 13
You are a homossexual

Tifa then, now and always

Attached: tlhsldclp.png (1104x901, 767K)

>grow up and stop being a pedophile

Are you saying teenagers are pedos for finding other teenagers attractive?

At first I liked Tifa because lol tiddies, but as I became more degenerate Yuffie became my favorite.

>clusterfuck due to poor planning
Surprise! Its actually a fucking lot harder to write a great creative and deep story under time constraints than it is to pick apart said story and come up with head cannons that are "alluded to" and "should have happened" for 20 years following the story's release.
Jk this shouldn't be a surprise and i somehow always see autists and "intellectuals" making these weird arguments and statements

In a literal sense, yes

They don't fuck in children games.

that annoyed me because i don't like anal and I wanted him to breed them

>and FF10
But...why?

The dates don't match. The game was released in 1997 and that guidebook was first released in 2005, with further releases edited with additional information at later years. Nobody disagrees that the final canonical answers is that Sephiroth was always in control, only that it seems to not match the direction of the original storyline (left intentionally ambiguous). Retroactively confirming an ambiguous story isn't strictly a retcon, that's for sure, people are stretching the definition of that word for lack of a better term.

FF7's plot was fairly straightforward.

you can't be a pedophile if you're attracted to teenagers the cut off is 11 years old. After that it's hebephile and ephebophile

No one thinks this

>It was originally FF7.
It was a potential script for FF7, alongside what eventually did become FF7 and I beliueve Chrono Cross could have been FF7 at one point as well.

>Wait, fuck, does that mean Cloud is fucked too in that sense
Would explain how Cloud survives falling in to the lifestream.

Sephiroth was thrown into the reactor by Cloud and ended up in the north crater through the life stream, you see him crystalized there. Before you find him, its Jenova as Sephiroth. After that, its Sephiroth as himself and Jenova as herself.

Probably popularity but also doesn't 10 end with some sort of reference tie in to 7?

>After that, its Sephiroth as himself and Jenova as herself.
Some confirmation on this would be nice.

There's a character named Shin-Ra who has an idea to do something with the Farplane similar to what Shinra does to the Lifestream.

That's about where it ends though, aside from one comment someone made that FF7 is in the same world as FFX, except 10,000 years later and on another planet that's had no elaboration since.

Well I admit it might be a bit vague but I see no reason why either of them would need to pull any more shenanigans, the secrets already out. It wouldn't do them any good.

Tifa was my first waifu for little over fourteen years, but during three fifths of that time I thought Aerith was the better character. Nowadays Aerith is the best of the VII girls for me.

Attached: 5464343734327.jpg (700x989, 471K)

It also helps that Cloud was physically as fit and strong as someone in SOLDIER. The primary reason he didn't get into the program was, essentially, failing the psychological exam. He was too mentally unstable to deal with the mako infusion SOLDIERs had to go through.

You're mistaken about some things. I can mention poor planning without actually criticizing the original game. I like the original game. There's nothing wrong with ambiguous villains, it's fine if Sephiroth swears he's in control but we have no way to know it's true. The same story can become afflicted by poor planning if the franchise holders don't stay true to the original direction, if someone then steps up and confirms one way or another something that I feel shouldn't be confirmed, I can consider that poor planning with the handling of the story, not because the original story has a defect, and not because I nitpick at people who originally did a great job.

Both. On the conscious level Sephiroth thinks that he is in control, but his core values gradually shift towards being Jenova 2.0, the transformation practically complete by the time of Advent Children.

I don't think Chrono Cross had any relation to Final Fantasy. But Parasite Eve recycled some of the plot elements that were cut early on in FFVII's development and was created to test the engine that FFVIII would end up using.

Arieth saves the planet on the first disk. The rest of the game is just filler. She would have had the Turks too.

Could should have finished what he started after he stabbed Sephiroth in the back. Instead of giving a speech and leaving the room he should have tore the Buster Sword around and completely eviscerated the fag.

The movie sword wasn't the buster sword though

Cloud did receive making Infusion. His eyes.

You fought what remains physically of Sephiroth after the Nibelheim incident, his upper body which has been encased in mako this entire time.

That happened after the Nibelheim incident, where he was put under experiments that were very similar to SOLDIER procedures.

He got a mako poisoning during the hojo experiments, not during shinra training.

Wow whoever wrote the fucking story should've been aborted

>It's straight forward story telling. The story didn't spell out whether Sephiroth or Jenova was in control, which is understandable since there are no character in the story with the authority to make this judgement unbiased, but the audience had room for suspicion.
No he's goes crazy after realizing he's a monster human almagam, it's him controlling Jenova at the end and through the game, it's explicit about this.
He was dead in the womb, stillbirth, his dad revived him with the cells as an experiment and to bring him back to life.

Sephiroth.

From what i got Jenova cells influenced Sephiroth, but just enough to get him to go mommy-crazy, the actual shit he did was all his own and included taking DIRECT CONTROL of his mommy's corpse and using it as a minion.

Basically, it was Sephiroth with a instinct (DESTROY PLANET, a part of Jenovas reproduction cycle) triggered by coming into contact with Jenova making him go loco-coco with his own plan.

>Marry and Fuck Tifa
Yes. This is the correct answer. You may also decide to fuck Aeris before killing her and Yuffie before abandoning her in the woods.

>it's him controlling Jenova at the end and through the game, it's explicit about this
Then give the exact quote from the original game and name the character who has the authority to make that statement. Note: both Sephiroth and Jenova would claim to be in control so their words are not the final say in the matter, it would need to be some godly entity with omnipresent knowledge and infaillible opinion.

It's what happens when everyone in the fanbase is wanking over one character and if you want to satisfy them you have no choice but to crank it up to eleven and bring him back forever and make everything about him in the most absurd convoluted way possible.

Attached: Jenova.png (205x42, 973)