Why can't jrpgs: >have thieves that actually steal >have complex side quests >skills that effect things outside of battle >mechanics consistent with setting and lore >story told through interactive segments and gameplay The cheesy humor, anime art styles and melodrama are part of the charm, they're also purely aesthetic, preferential choices. But I feel like every jrpg could improve if it took inspiration from its western counterparts in those aspects.
I'm not saying this out of spite. I love jrpgs and japanese media for their unique and weird ideas, art design, settings and combat from games like Soulsborne, Dragon's Dogma and Nier: Automata are among my favorite in the genre. But you don't have to lose those.
>m.jpg Stupid phonenigger. Learn how to save pics.
Carson Nelson
wow its like im reading the idiot book
Carson Cruz
why cant wrpgs be good?
Wyatt Hall
So you can't criticise jrpgs at all? The genre is perfect and has no flaws?
Eli Diaz
>made by Square-Enix You know it really would only take like 2 fucking minutes to do a google search instead of making an infographic, getting basic things wrong and then probably getting pissy because I'm "missing the point" or whatever
Jackson King
You have to play them first?
Gavin Collins
Nobody said that though you're perfectly aware of that and are just looking for a fight, like the previous 50 times you made this thread. Just post the rest of your usual collection and be done with it.
Ayden Hernandez
It's not mine, but that's hardly even the point. I know it's by Platinum which games I love, including Automata.
Michael Lopez
>Nier as an example of JRPGs >Listing SE as the developer when they only published it >Was developed by platinum who normally only makes straight action games Didn't even bother reading your post past the image. Nier is an action game first with some lite JRPG elements. There are tons of actual JRPGs with shitty linear quest design you could have used as an example.
Lincoln Reed
I'm not wrpg-kun.
Adam Gomez
I don't care, it doesn't change the fact that complex, more non-linear quest lines which wrpgs had already in the fuckin 90s would be an improvement.
Zachary Howard
JRPGs and WPRGs are seperate things and thats a good thing.
Ryder Stewart
wheres the gameplay?
Leo Lee
I'm just wondering. Do japanese developers never play western rpgs? I can't believe none of them played something like Fallout, Vampire or Planescape and didn't think adding a bit of choice not just in the endings would be cool.
Liam Williams
No fuck off
Grayson Carter
I find it fucking hilarious whenever you push this, because non-linear quest lines were not and still are often not as common as you'd like to believe. Yes, there are srandout examples, but the endless amounts of shovelware or just generic design that led to a fantasy RPG fatigue for many people is actually real and was/is more common than you think.
Like I fucking love Might & Magic VI and VII, but its quests are almost all extremely limited in scope.
>I don't care Then why should anyone care about your opinion then, buttmunch?
Andrew Hill
They do, but the character-driven style they use, that leads to the long cutscenes and stuff does not lend itself well to many choices, as the production costs and time would skyrocket for each individual variation, unless they make all of those basically non-choices. And you saw how well that goes, when Mass Effect 3 concluded.
Brandon White
But they're not that uncommon either: Planescape, Fallout games, Vampire the Masquerade, Witcher, KOTOR, Mass Effect immediately came to my mind. It's also nice to have the ability to sneak or talk your way out of battle and just have the story be part of the gameplay and not seperate from it.
Jaxon Brooks
They bought Wizardry IP so yes.
Lincoln Campbell
BG2 has shallow quest design and is no more replayable than your generic JRPG.
Anthony Cruz
Planescape and Witcher had character driven stories and also gave you a big amount of choice.
Leo King
True and there are several ones like it but there are also at least a dozen of counter examples.
Easton Adams
>unironically calling rpgs wrpgs >using new vegas as an example >implying dialogue and story matter at all
Actually comparing Nier Automata disaster side quests and open-world design to New Vegas, which is arguably best post Fallout 1/2 game ever made and probably Bethesda won't make better game in their own universe ever.
Besides that jRPGs has different focus than wRPGs, they tend to be more gameplay/action/linear story focused.
Ayden Thompson
Why can't WRPGs launch in a playable state and not require dozens of fan-fixes to run without constant crashing or bugs?
Adam Gutierrez
They are though. For every RPG that does have branching choices or nonlinear quests, you can find half a dozen that do not. Don't act like RPGs weren't the dumping ground for everyone some years back.
Cameron Sullivan
Start the game and you'll get your gameplay.
Carter Davis
Most of those games you listed don't have non-linear questlines. You do the same shit and then you get a choice at the end of the quest which, if you're lucky, changes which boss you fight against. VTMB in particular is extremely linear. Fallout definitely counts though since almost the entire game is optional and the few quests you do have to do have multiple routes that play to different playstyles.
Joshua Gray
>implying dialogue and story matter at all I'd rather have a few interactive lines of dialogue that effect gameplay than a hour long non interactive cutscenes. I understand that. But how would choices take away from those aspects? Planescape has strong character driven main plot and also great side quests and dialogue. You can get to explore the characters, themes, setting and mechanics of the game thanks to those. They also add replayability.
Jaxon Ramirez
>Every RPG is from Bethesda By that logic then every JRPG is FFXV.
Joshua Rivera
What's the point of this? Yes, in any medium or genre most examples are bad. But the point is that several franchises in the west did attempt this. Those also aren't obscure titles I'm mentioning.
Zachary Gutierrez
Because you're pushing standouts as the WRPG standard, when they were not and usually still aren't. It's a narrative you've constructed for yourself. Just because you have 10 gamed out of a hundred thag do so, does not make it industry standard, especially not when half of them are either from the same studio or were made by people that came from said studio.
Daniel Anderson
Planescape on the other matter may be boring for certain target of players. It's simply taking away something that puts on players too much strain and trouble. Some people don't like to make choices, because they may miss something by doing wrong choice or miss it entirely, because there are multiple interesting results after doing a choice. Besides the old cRPGs are pretty much extreme in aspect of dialogues and gameplay wise they actually sucks. Even if gameplay would be improved, the game wouldn't be for everybody. Some people were growing up in different environment, that said not everyone played table top RPGs, so they don't exactly seek for that kind of experience.
Ian Reed
That doesn't really matter in practice. If I want to play a wrpg with good side quests and choices I don't really have to look that hard. Even the more "niche" titles like Vampire, Arcanum or Planescape are mentioned on half the rpg lists. But even the generic, casual bioware games will give you choices. It would probably honestly be harder to mention rpgs which don't do this. Only big example I can think of is TES. Might and Magic that you mentioned has pretty much fallen into obscurity.
Nicholas Edwards
Well you don't have to go as far. Witcher games or Bioware games were pretty casual and they would just add a few choices here and there which would also have actual effects on the story or gameplay.
Christian Nelson
JRPG GOOD WRPG BAD
Hudson Cruz
>gameplay wise they actually sucks Same for jrpgs. Srpgs are the same shit as Fallout despite people praising the first and shitting on the later. Only good combat you've got is basically in Miyazaki games, Dragon's Dogma and Automata.
Jaxon Thomas
DD is actually a joke, it could be more fun if You wouldnt keep meeting the same big ass monsters every fucking few meters. They felt like stale bread instead of something epic, it was simply tedious. Haven't played more disappointing game in my life.
Andrew Ramirez
>muh characters >muh story >muh choices none of that matters in an rpg go read a choose your own adventure book if you want that shit
Kayden Williams
>Putting a question mark at the end of a statement Is this the power of Wrpg writing?
Benjamin Butler
Then why do modern JRPGs get stuffed full of endless, terrible Cut scenes or never-ending dialogue?
Planescape and Witcher main characters are player stand-ins while most JRPG protagonists arecharacters separate from the player being used to tell a story, they aren't trying to do the same thing.
Jackson Mitchell
Uhh, Geralt is a pretty distinctive character. Hard to consider him a 'player stand-in'
Jose Lee
Badass mcbadass is not a real personality.
Isaiah Bennett
They're worse. I'd rather half 10 minutes of dialogue and choices that can effect gameplay and story rather than half an hour of non interactive cut scenes.
Landon Baker
You haven't played the game have you.
Asher Campbell
What jrpg has a character with a deep and complex personality.
Samuel Myers
Maybe should play something else rather than Nep-tier glorified visual novel.
Mason Jenkins
As someone who browses GameFAQs and YouTube's Alt-Right clickbait channels looking for Anti-SJW/Alt-Right audiences to debate with, I know about them all too well. These people have always been in our society but seek solace in gaming. Gaming is a fantasy lands that, in their eyes, should be a reflection of everything they've always wanted but can't get out of life. It was made with white men in mind, and now that it's starting to change to better reflect its audience, they feel like they're being attacked. Western gaming is taking steps to diversify their protagonists, diversify their developers, and create female characters that aren't grossly sexualized, and they hate it. So they move on to Eastern gaming while condemning Western gaming for its themes of progress.
What's interesting that I noticed about GameFAQs topics and stuff on Yea Forums, and how they align with the Alt-Right, is that you see this pro-Japan agenda theme frequently. It first takes the form of "Japan makes better games" or "JRPGs are superior." But then, it starts evolving into the fetishization of Eastern women, which is a common theme with the Alt-Right, due to fantasizing the submissive stereotypes of Japanese women. They then start talking about how Japanese gamers hate progressives in America due to censorship, and how their culture is really traditional is what makes it superior. Slowly, but surely, it evolves into a "this is why homogenous societies are better" argument, because the themes fill every checkbox in what interests them. Women, traditionalism, homogeny, white, etc..
I'm not sure what can be done about these people, honestly. To me, they're in the same category as the Alt-Right It's really hard to get into an honest conversation with some of them. Some of them have no intention of ever changing their views, even if they acknowledge they're in the wrong.
But you forgot this JRPG where there's an absurd super long quest with progression so obtuse it makes old point and clicks look logical! Clearly this proves that JRPGs are better.
Colton Cox
>You know it really would only take like 2 fucking minutes to do a google search instead of making an infographic, getting basic things wrong and then probably getting pissy because I'm "missing the point" or whatever It's not as if other jrpgs have better quest design. Final Fantasy XV, which was actually made by Square-Enix, with a development time of a decade and a billion times the budget of New Vegas, also is filled with uninspired fetch quests.
Logan Brooks
>Besides the old cRPGs are pretty much extreme in aspect of dialogues and gameplay wise they actually sucks. I wish people would stop spreading this false narrative.
>As someone who browses GameFAQs and YouTube's Alt-Right clickbait channels looking for Anti-SJW/Alt-Right audiences to debate with I was wondering why The Quartering and Nerdrotic are even a thing. People like you are the reason wastes of space like them end up laughing all the way to the bank. It's Anita all over again, under a different flag but the same feigned fervour. But you do you, SJW guy. Fight the good fight.
Luis Rivera
What is that supposed to prove? That combat in Dark Sun is bad because the animations don't look stellar?
You do realize Dark Sun came out in the early 90's, right? Around the same time as the SNES Final Fantasies. At least in Dark Sun the developers bothered to animate the characters moving about, in those SNES FInal Fantasies the characters just wave their weapon around and somehow manage to hit a target at the other side of the screen.
Also, to put into perspective how big the gap in budget was: FF/DQ games on NES/SNES sold several million copies, games like Dark Sun were lucky to sell 100k copies. Many crpgs didn't even manage that, selling only 10-20k copies.
Ayden Roberts
imagine jerking off to pixels on a screen have sex, incels. games are for gameplay, not providing short-term relief to your insipid virgin dicklets.
Lucas Myers
OP actually got (you)s on this shit-tier bait. you are all stupid faggots.
Jayden Wood
>"The art of war has been a constant since ages past" I think Dark Souls item descriptions are interesting and decently written for the most part, but lots of these hollow quasi-philosophical platitudes that Japanese people love ended up slipping through. It's really jarring seeing paragraphs that don't need to exist, especially when so much careful thought was put in implicit details like environmental design and item placement. But, as I said, Japanese people think every work of literature needs broad, sweeping and meaningless generalizations about life and stuff.
Colton Phillips
>games like Dark Sun were lucky to sell 100k copies. Many crpgs didn't even manage that, selling only 10-20k copies. That's because they're shit. Doom sold millions on the same platform with much higher system requirements.
Aiden Jenkins
>haha fucking weeb incel >my waifu viconia is so cute
Dylan Hill
The OP does have a point in that jrpgs are weirdly homogenous.
A good way to demonstrate this is to look at how jrpgs utilize their settings. For instance, if you look at wrpgs that aren't high fantasy, like say Fallout, Deus Ex, Jagged Alliance, Vampire The Masquerade, etc. they tend to incorporate aspects of their setting in their gameplay. And I don't mean things like characters using guns. I mean stuff like Fallout having a barter economy, which is logical in a post-apocalyptic society where monetization has broken down. Or how cybernetic augmentations in Deus Ex take the place of a more traditional RPG system. Or the whole mercenary company aspect of Jagged Alliance.
It's obvious that a game's setting should inform its gameplay. But jrpgs really don't do this. Even jrpgs that take place in modern or futuristic settings, such as Persona or Xenoblade, still revolve around typical high fantasy cliches like dungeon crawling and god-killing shenanigans. The characters even still use medieval weaponry. Heck, Symphony of the Night is a Japanese vampire RPG where you play as a vampire, yet you can't even bite anyone to drink blood, meaning you can't even fulfil the basic function of a vampire. How lame is that? Or heck, Lost Odyssey, a game where you play as immortals, yet you can somehow still die from combat.
Another baffling trope is when jrpgs take place in a world such as Final Fantasy 7 or 15, where the technology and level of civilization is far more advanced than our own. Yet despite said technology and level of civilization, the world functions like a standard medieval fantasy world, with small settlements separated by vast, uncharted expanses of wilderness filled with wild beasts and roving bandits, and characters still using medieval weaponry. What is the point of going with a futuristic setting if it's functionally and thematically identical to a medieval fantasy world?
I've never understand why jrpgs are designed this way.
West >Overly verbose horseshit trying to describe by assuming your reactions for you, which is an elementary sign of terrible writing
Japan >Simple, concise description that lays out a small amount of interesting lore for the player to piece together if they so choose
Yep. Also, jesus christ, quit holding up Torment as some bastion of good writing. It's really not. Everything is this overly flowery horseshit, and in 3 out of 4 drawn-out, pointless conversations, a multitude of your text choices are just different flavors of word salad that say the exact. same. fucking. thing.
Ethan Hall
OP here, but sadly this one is bullshit. You're literally cherry picking. You picked an item of a side character in one case and one of the most important characters in the other.
Michael Watson
>Falling for a copypasta that's posted on the board at least once an hour.
>and are just looking for a fight Why would criticizing jrpgs lead to a fight? Are you some type of faggot who identifies with a regional game genre?
Angel Diaz
>West >Overly verbose
>Japan >Simple, concise
Are you blind? Both of the descriptions have precisely four sentences. Why aren't you complaining about the Dark Souls description being longwinded? The difference is that the description in Planescape: Torment make much better use of that length, to imbue the items with lots of flavor while making more creative use of fantasy elements, whereas the Dark Souls description reads like some dry Wikia entry. The quality of the prose and diction in Planescape: Torment's item descriptions is a billion times better than the ones in Dark Souls, which consists of very basic English English . I have no idea how you could think otherwise.
And the developers of Dark Souls don't even trust you to piece together that backstory, since your character knows weirdly specific historial details without even having to bother to research or identify the item.
Kevin Hughes
I played Mass Effect 2 and that was one of the most absolute boring shit games I’ve ever played. >Here’s some cover in a giant rectangular room x100000 Fun
Nicholas Jenkins
Bugmen ripped all their games off of wrpgs, retard.
Ryder Cook
>why would a repeated low quality bait thread lead to a fight, the previous 100 were civil and full of honest discussion
Adam Morales
the one on the left needs several patches and fixes to work and even then will still likely fail.
>wrpg-kun still seething is shit genre is dead Did you forget that wrpg-kun only emerged as a response to misleading pro-jrpg, anti-wrpg that were perpetuated on Yea Forums for years, like the one in this image?
This was the most dissapointing thing to me in FF VII. You start out in a cyberpunk city with magical elements and after leaving Midgard everything looks like a generic medieval setting with one city having a rocket and another a train.
I think SE recognise this. Thinking about the spinoff material, the vast majority of time seems to be spent in or around Midgar, Junon, and so on. even the Smash stage is the Midgar skyline.
Isaiah Sullivan
>Have you played any SaGa game OP Do SaGa games have basic wrpg features such as stealth, diplomacy, the ability to freely kill npcs, etc.?
Do SaGa games allow you to tackle objectives in different ways?
Do SaGa games allow you to go anywhere from the start of the game or do they gate their world progression like other jrpgs?
Genuinely curious.
Wyatt Bell
how could he possibly have time for that when there are hourly shitposts to be made?
Because Japanese are so smart they can't be fooled by the illusion of choices, and would rather accomplish direct objectives than be sent in some arbitrary round-about of "choices". The developers know you just want too level your characters, get more powerful and enjoy the narrative.
>comparing action wrpg to turn-based jrpg >the majority of the Etrian description consists of simply his stats being displayed and even his backstory, not even any discussion of strategy
>right: very first sentence says the best strategy is simply to mindlessly grind your party to high levels, ie. busywork is the best way to victory, not any actual tactics You're not helping your argument here. Also:
>right: abstract menu-based systems >left: tactical system that involves positioning, movement, distance, range, line of fire, etc.
