Why is this game so bad?

Because Ardyn and Gaunter didn't join forces. That would've been a scary game.

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Noctis pretty cool guy.

Combat is boring. Magic system isn’t intuitive. Camera and controls are bad.

That’s already a recipe for a terrible game. Now add on top that the franchise lives and dies by memorable characters and story and the four lead characters have completely bland personalities.

>Ignis
>bland
What? How?

>Nomura wanted anithe rinevitable Lightning wankfest in Nova Fagula Crystalis
>Pisses away resources for years making tech demos and "trailers"
>Gets booted from it, Tabata takes over
>Tabata removes most of the V13 stuff but still keeps some in for unknown reasons
>Story is made slightly better than it was, but still shit
>Controls become crap, magic is braindead, combat ranges from okay with some bosses to outright annoying everywhere else
>$100 worth of DLC later the game is "Finished" but stoll plays like crap, but has some actually decent bosses now at least (even if they were just jammed into the endgame)
>Tabata gets canned
>Nomura goes on to ruin KH3 and will likely ruin 7R, assuming it ever comes out
XV really was an utter shitshow, and I say that as somebody who actually sort of enjoyed playing through the Royal Edition slower while taking time to do other stuff. Just flat disappointing when you look at it.

Unironically no Lightning

>Ignis

I don’t even remember which one that is. I played the whole game.

When was the last time FF was good? X and XI were like 20 years ago. This series is dead.

Lightning was the worst thing to ever happen to this franchise.

Hi barry

>Nomura wanted anithe rinevitable Lightning
lol are you retarded

this. It's nuts they are making a FFVII remake when nobody cares any more.

Though I hear the redone MMO was OK.

Honestly every character is just so bad that everything else falls apart. Also they released an entirely unfinished game with the initial Chapter 13 probably being the most embarrassing thing Square has ever besides FFXIV's initial release.

While KH3 wasn't terrible, it just mediocrity. At this point I don't believe Square is capable of producing anything of merit like they used to. FFXVI will probably be a phone game with heavy gatcha elements.

The story assumes you watched a pre release movie. That’s inexcusable.

I know FFVII isn’t universally loved like it used to be, but I started playing it on switch this week and even with the terrible translation, within the first hour, you know what ShinRa is and who AVALANCHE is. And they do a good job of teasing mystery. Who is Sephiroth and what is his connection with Cloud? Why are the Turks stalking Aeris?

FF15 = look at these dozen swords we designed. Aren’t they cool? Go get them.

No female party members. Seriosuly that ruins it. A staple of the series for a while has been romantic tension between at least two party members and made them feel a little less plastic.

It's a FUN VIDEO GAME.

Final Fantasy hasn't been FUN in...well it's NEVER been fucking fun. It's been turn based tedious menu shit.

The only reason it's tolerable with Dragon Quest is because everything has a quirky name.

>A staple of the series for a while has been romantic tension between at least two party members
Can't have that anymore. Don't want to upset any of the gay shpping for the fujos that are the main target audience.

It didn't grab me and hold me tightly before before buttfucking me with dozens of pointless samey side quests.

i like it so its ok

Its remarkable how strong the story telling is even in FFX and XII. And how it just utterly failed when it came to XIII and XV. What the hell?

Fuck Fabulla Nova.

>13 was shit
>15 was godawful
>type-0 is ok at best

Did Fabula Nova Crystallis really kill off the entire Final Fantasy series?

you forgot

that movie used to be a playable section of the game, it was shown before. they cut the whole thing and turned it into a film for some reason

Horrific gameplay issues aside, I'm going to focus on issues with the story.

As other anons pointed out, MAJOR plot threads were either DLC or in other content. The two most egregious ones of course being Ignis' stand against Ardyn which blinded him and Prompto finding out he was a clone. These should have been in the core game and would have made for some of the most heartwrenching moments in an FF game. Now, only a few fans who stuck around for DLC will ever get them.

Ardyn himself is actually a really solid villain given his backstory. There's a lot of justification for his actions what with him actually being the true king and all that. Again, it's too bad we never got this shit in the actual story itself. When he revealed his true name, I literally had to look online for what the twist was supposed to be. I was like, "What, is he Noctis' uncle or something? I don't understand."

The fact of the matter is that FFXV has the building blocks to be an incredible story, but it was handled extremely poorly. I didn't feel much for Lunafreya when she died because we hardly got any time with her. I did however tear up when the car was left behind because, hey, that car meant something. It was the car that took you through your journey and with it came a lot of memories. That moment was like leaving whatever happiness you had forever. But I shouldn't be feeling more for a car than for what was supposed to be one of the most important characters in the plot.

So again, it had the potential but just terrible direction.

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>As other anons pointed out, MAJOR plot threads were either DLC or in other content.
I only played the base game and I didn't understand why they were seeking the giant glowing thing, or why it swallows Noctis and why he suddenly returns years in the future as an aged man
Am I stupid or something

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>I didn't feel much for Lunafreya when she died because we hardly got any time with her. I did however tear up when the car was left behind because, hey, that car meant something.
Pretty much your whole post, but this part really describes it well. I had no attachment to her, and was almost confused that they would expect me to feel sorry for her death at that point in the story. I played FFXV on release. So when I played through it to begin with, I really had no idea of Ignis's stand or anything else that was later released. The main game was so bad that I just don't care to go back to it.

Not to mention since I just bought the regular game on release on PS4 I would have to pay more than someone who just go the repackaged re-release, so I'm even less motivated to find out what else they released.

>Ardyn himself is actually a really solid villain given his backstory. There's a lot of justification for his actions what with him actually being the true king and all that. Again, it's too bad we never got this shit in the actual story itself. When he revealed his true name, I literally had to look online for what the twist was supposed to be. I was like, "What, is he Noctis' uncle or something? I don't understand."

explain i never finished this shit

>When he revealed his true name, I literally had to look online for what the twist was supposed to be
The sound mixing was so bad there I needed to look up what he said.

>Am I stupid or something

Yes.

>The sound mixing was so bad there I needed to look up what he said.

Why didn't you have subtitles on?

>everything was Tabata's fault.
Nah. Everything is the fault of putting Tabata on a game that was wholly incompatible with his strengths and bad design decisions that date back to VS13 being upheld.

Making an ARPG FF is a fucking awful idea because the suits want anyone to be able to beat an FF. It was always going to be lesser Kingdom Hearts. The big, scaled world map was a bad idea even before it morphed into the open world meme, World Maps work best as abstractions to allow exploration and context without as much padding. The very crux of the game, "modern fantasy," was fucked because Nomura always does it in the worst way possible by mostly segregating reality and fantasy instead of the elements influencing each other.

Tabata completely fucked the execution, but VS was doomed from the start.

>kill off the entire Final Fantasy series

The series we know and love, yes. The franchise will never be the same. Get ready for more cellphone games, games released on day one incomplete with story DLC released later, games released in multimedia formats where you will have to read and watch all of it just to get the story, as well as full games being split into three parts.

FNC was just a test bed of ideas. SE tested the waters and tried to see how far they could push the player and what they could get away with.

I just want to know one thing.

What the fuck is wrong with the plot? What was the point of all of that? Literally no-one had any free will at any point! Noc had no free will, Ardyn had no free will, everyone was played like a puppet the entire time.

All of it was the plan of the Crystal and Bahamut to cleanse the world Eos of the starscourge. Afterwards Bahamut could finally be laid to rest.

>Terrible, convoluted storyline
>Boring cast of characters
>Uninspired battle system
>Can't do anything cool with the car until post-game

It was actually worse than FFXIII, by a lot.

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Flawed, but brilliant in a few ways

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Every FF (except 3 and 5) up to 9 has a good en medias res opening that properly sets up the rest of the game while hooking you with unexpected events.

>You rescue the princess and the day is saved...wait that's the start?
>You've been utterly annihilated by armed forces and must join a resistance movement to find your friend
>You're an army general and just burned down a town, you beseech your king to consider this path and are stripped of rank
>You find yourself laying waste to the impoverished before it is revealed you were mind controlled and have amnesia.
>You and a group of terrorists attack a power plant, turns out this city is corrupt and dying
>You find yourself as a young soldier training in a military academy, but things seem a bit off.
>You go to kidnap a princess...and she wants to be kidnapped?
10 stumbles immediately after its intro and 12/13/15 fail to do this well at all. 12 is too disorganized and slow, 13 is far too vague and long winded, and 15 stumbles and humbled to plot points.

uninteresting setting for a Final Fantasy game

I get that, but it doesn't make for a very compelling story. Here's what I took away from the whole mess.

Ardyn WANTS Noct to win so he can finally die. That means, right from the start, the primary antagonist is actively aiding you. FFVII wouldn't be remotely compelling if Sephiroth was constantly helping Cloud get to the final battle. More, he went about it in the most stupidly convoluted way possible.

I add that he got to rule the world for ten years, during which he had absolute power. It's a miracle there's any humans left alive after a decade of a hate-driven despot with an army of demons fucking with them.

Worse, the Empire's completely irrelevant. It's a non-entity in the whole mess. I get that Kingsglaive is weirdly non-canonical now, but the story always felt like the main thrust would be taking your home back. Instead, everyone dies offscreen, and Ardyn could've leveled them by himself.

It's even worse in Episode Ardyn, when you realize he never needed the Empire. He could've stormed the kingdom in broad daylight, and singlehandedly beat the shit out of everyone by himself. It's not like they could kill or stop him, because he was immortal. (In fact, if they could kill him, that would give him what he wanted!)

All they needed to do would be something simple as "Ardyn is evil and seeks to usurp the throne of the rightful King, Noct must find the crystal and slay the pretender" without the whole "Actually, Ardyn WANTS to die and is helping you kill him, making you a party to his suicide-by-cop".

>10 stumbles immediately after its intro and 12/13/15 fail to do this well at all. 12 is too disorganized and slow, 13 is far too vague and long winded, and 15 stumbles and humbled to plot points.

This. Take note that every game starting with 10 now had voice acting. The story is no longer being conveyed through mere text boxes. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?

>FFVII wouldn't be remotely compelling if Sephiroth was constantly helping Cloud get to the final battle.
I mean he kinda did. So does Garland, Golbez, even Kefka to an extent. It's a matter of execution.

textboxes means you can do last min script changes. Keeps things more cohesive, and localization can iron out any weirdness.

Despite all that, I think 10 actually does it all pretty well. A million times better then 13 or 15.

Okay, fair enough, but at least Cloud was trying to do something that would fuck up Sephiroth's plans. Here, what you want and what the villain want are one and the same.

>34 posters

Wow, for once have hearing issues and always needing subtitles saved me.

Basically TL;DR, Ardyn was this prince who was gifted with an ability to heal others. The Starscourge was this awful disease that people had back then that he, instead of curing, would just take into himself. So he was constantly accumulating all of this dark sick energy while at the same time being the hero everybody wanted. He didn't know it was actually turning him into a monster at the time.

This is the part where I'm not so sure I have completely right since I haven't played the DLC yet but his younger brother wants to be king so he tries to kill him. Since Ardyn is now basically a demon he couldn't do it so he sealed him away instead. Fast forward a couple thousand years and Noctis is the descendant of the younger brother. Ardyn basically gets unsealed by the enemy kingdom and is all like "Yo, my brother sucks, that kingdom sucks, and I'm going to get the vengeance that I deserve."

>The fact of the matter is that FFXV has the building blocks to be an incredible story

>kingdom gets invaded, your father murdered
>you go on a happy go lucky road trip with your bros and have the time of your life
>said bros are complete non-entities whose sole purpose is to be yes-men to noctis, one of them is even a fucking butler
>noctis is the most generic take on the chosen one possible

Not only is this some of the most atrocious writing ever to feature video game writing, but Square thought this shit needed to have a movie and an anime show to flesh it out? What on earth were they thinking?

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What makes this dumber and even more complicated is that no-one had any choice in this.

It turns out that GOD told Ardyn's brother to kill him. Yes, GOD fucked over Ardyn. He also tells Ardyn:

> "Ardyn, my son, you are fucked."
> "I promise that you'll get to die eventually, but only after you cast the lands of Middle-Earth into darkness."
> "Then Noct kills you."
> "But he dies, and the line ends and the crystal blows up. So in a roundabout way, everyone gets what they want. Even you."

It's only tangentially related, as it slows the pacing slightly. Each game fucked up for its own reasons.

10 - The game pulls a fucking 180 once you hit Besaid and becomes more about people telling you shit than your character doing and figuring out things, and the mood and slow info trickle of the sea section is completely discarded.
12 - Game was a production clusterfuck and there was no good way to present all the necessary exposition without rewrites.
13 - The game is shallow as fuck and its intro is a vapid rehash of 7's, it takes over two hours to even establish a premise despite it being *simpler* than 6's.
15 - Game was a clusterfuck and full of corporate fingers, it's too busy hitting checkmarks and finding ways to use completed assets to do anything interesting.

You can rewrite each one to work better with very little effort, too.

10 - Tidus and Rikku's salvaging eventually has them bump into the struggling, shipwrecked summoner, Yuna.
12 - Fuck Vaan, he doesn't matter.
13 - The train is derailed to impale the Fal'cie, Lightning and Sahz end up inside and are branded, we learn she was trying to save Serah, who crystalizes.
15 - The group is pushing through the lonesome desert and barely defend themselves from fiends, find despite at the lone rest stop, we learn they're pursued royalty of a fallen kingdom heading to sanctuary in Noctis' betrothed' s country.
It's really that easy.

The really dumb part is that it didn't have to be this way. All you really need to do is to have them be Noctis's actual bros, not his bodyguard / servants. Then have one guy look at the TV, see the war has broken out, and go:

> "Oh shit, Noct. I think your Dad's dead."
> "My Dad's dead?"
> "Yeah. Doesn't that make you King?"
> "OH FUCK"

Then you have four assholes having to sober up, raise an army, and take the kingdom back.

Yeah, they forgot the conflict.

...I haven't completed episode Ardyn yet, but wasn't it that Aera told Somnus that Ardyn was chosen to be king and that's why he killed him? Either you need to take pills or this story will be even worse than I thought.

That's why I said building blocks and not that the story itself was great. The Backstreet Boys weren't well executed but their bro trip was the best character stuff in the game.

To me, it felt like they were trying to remake FF1. You had the four bro party, an enemy from thousands of years ago, battles with fiends (or the summons in this case), etc. Yes, it is old and tired stuff, but if it was executed well, it could have made for a nice tribute like FF9.

No. Ardyn was never chosen to be King. The gods always meant for Ardyn to be the host of the Starscourge.

They fucked him over. No-one involved had a choice. Sure, Ardyn's brother killed him out of jealousy, but the Gods and the Crystal supported him. He was a puppet like everyone else.

how much did the movie cost to make anyways? i would think that after Spirits Within they'd never do a movie again

There are a lot of things you can do with XV's plot. You could make Noctis more of a man on the run. You can make him folk hero king. You can lead him down a dark warpath of revenge. You can have him defy his destiny.

Instead he just nods and dies as he's told. He is the antithesis of every FF protagonist sans Lightning. The biggest problem with the new games is the heroes barely have conflicts and don't overcome anything worth a damn. They do as the script tells them. They're all pussies compared to Firion, Cecil, and even Terra, who's SUPPOSED to be too timid for her own good.

>12 - Fuck Vaan, he doesn't matter.

I lol'd.

When Yea Forums rewrites are better than what SE can come up with.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, no.

> Then you have four assholes having to sober up, raise an army, and take the kingdom back.

This would have been infinitely more fun than what we got. Get the Prince to the wedding, then storm the city with four new Glaives amped up to unstoppability on the broforce.

Actually, about that. The previous King could charge up an entire army by himself. Why can't Noct empower his buddies? Shouldn't they be capable of slaying thousands of demons? Regis could allow hundreds of men to cast spells and teleport. You're telling me Noct can't concentrate of all that juice into three guys?

SE likes repeating their mistakes perhaps?

Game was shat out too fast to implement things like that.

The only yes men are Ignis and Promptop.
Gladios is the only one who doesn't take Noctis' angsty shit and gives him some tough love so he can be a proper king and you know what? It worked.
I bet the dude was proud to hear Noctis say
>Off my chair, Jester.
>The king sits there.

As someone who played this game when it first came out, I got the feeling something was badly, deeply wrong when I got to the Leviathan fight. But I knew the story was fucked when Luna died.

Not because I'm against characters dying, but Noct never even had a chance to speak to her face-to-face. And the entire first half of the game was "Road trip to get the prince to his wedding on time", and they catastrophically failed at that.

God Gladio was the only saving grace for being such a fucking snack

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It's ironic because Ardyn is the rightful King.

Honestly, could Noct even have lost the final fight? This was Ardyn's only chance to die for good, which was what he wanted. I get the feeling he'd have been happy to job.

Goddamn I love that line.

You know it’s bad when the Pocket edition version made them more memorable

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It could have worked if there was more to the story than
>We GOTTA get the plot coupons, meet Luna, and save the kingdom.
But there wasn't.

>Then you have four assholes having to sober up, raise an army, and take the kingdom back.

I couldn't help but think of Noctis and his gang going all around Eos trying to recruit party members for their army like Valkyrie Profile or Suikoden.

That actually would’ve been awesome.

You mean actually using an open world system for meaningful optional content instead of 168 copy paste broken car quests? Get outta here.

Kingsglaive also sort of fucks this. Luna is in the city during the attack, and Noct is moving away from it. Somehow, Luna gets AHEAD of Noct, and he's trying to get to her.

This means his entire trip's kind of pointless, because she could have accompanied him the entire time. I don't dislike Kingsglaive, but it implies a very different kind of game from what we got.

YFW when the Pocket Edition adds relevant dialogue that wasn't included in the fucking original.

It's not really an open world. You're basically entirely on rails, the car parts are driving in a straight line the entire game. It's not even the ILLUSION of an open world.

Imagine if the game actually had dragoons, black mages, blue mages and paladins and we got to see how they fit into a "real" world through sidequests. Wouldn't that be something.

It’s missig half the story and the DLCs should have been part of the game.

Remember THIS fucking trailer

> youtube.com/watch?v=pIyfWSrw_FQ

It's not THAT bad

The open world exists. You can walk around it. The rails exist precisely because there's no content in it.

Because it was only made for faggots and fujoshits.

Reminder that as mediocre as the game is now, the launch was even worse.
>no monster encyclopedia
>no off-road Regalia
>no chapter select
>limited hunt capacity
>no character switch
>buggy as all hell
>Insomnia was a short as fuck, linear area
>none of the added cutscenes, or sequences like Chapter 13 Verse 2
>none of the recently patched-in combat mechanics, like Cross Chains or new Armiger
>none of the newer introduced quest lines

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Vaan is far from being XII's biggest problem. The fact that a lot of people instantly go to him as the main culprit goes to show how shallow their understanding is of what makes a FF good.

XII is a complete disaster for many other reasons, the main one being probably the way the narrative totally shits the bed from the middle all the way to the end. You literally just go from boring linear dungeon to dungeon, the last one being an embarrassing tower where every floor is the same.

Some say it's because Matsuno left, but I think the project was doomed from the start because there was no levity and charismatic world building, instead the politics-heavy, lacking humour, realistic Ivalice that Matsuno lieks. And it works in FFT or Vagrant Story, but it just wasn't a good fit for this one.

Final Fantasy XII is the most disappointing game I've ever played. Final Fantasy XIII is the worst. I have never touched another FF ever since.

I didn't think they could make a character gayer than Tidus, but at least Tidus isn't a self taking homosexual like Prompto

I prefer pre-Royal Insomnia, Royal fucks with the pacing and story. Ghost Luna was horrible.

FFXIV was in a really good spot with Heavensward. Stormblood has been a complete slog devoid of meaningful content, it's just hamhanded fanservice and horrific korean MMO-tier grind.

Honestly I see why Pocket edition when full circle from a Console game turned into a phone game to a phone game turn back into a console game
4K was a mistake when a 3DS looking game is the superior version

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>The sound mixing was so bad there I needed to look up what he said.
yeah, literally everyone complained about it. you find it in any youtube comment section that has that scene. games rarely ever have good sound mixing though

Open world
The game is filled with a lot of empty space and shitty quests

Tidus actually had fangirls in-game and an actual love interest.

I bought FFXV on launch and I can safely say it was the worst $60 I've ever spent in my life. The fact that they charged money for DLC instead of releasing it for free as an apology is peak corporate greed, I'm never buying another mainline FF game.

But it gave us so much porn

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>old Noctis model is just young Noctis with a bigger head but the same body

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Tidus was Chad tier
Why’d Sakurai had to have such a hard on for Cloud when Tidus would’ve been infinitely better?

I guess I should have said that I didn't think they would ever just write a straight gay character, and Tidus or Vaan was as gay as it was going to get. Effeminate looking guys but still have female love interests and act like a guy.

I'm not saying Vaan is the source of the game's problems you condescending prick, I'm saying he's the cause of the terrible opening. The game has to justify his inclusion and it slows the whole thing down. Compare Vaan's busywork to raiding Alexandria in disguise as a troupe or the assault on the Mako Reactor. They try to fix this by starting with his brother, but it's a shitty bandaid.

Yeah, this sums it up pretty well. Pharos of Ridorana is the worst final dungeon in an FF game, it's so ridiculously tedious. You get multiple different fucking espers there because you can see the game falling apart at the seams where they didn't have enough time to finish anything.

Faggot

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How would you fix her if you could?

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the story was all over the place. we were tasked with finding 13 tombs to get their swords only for luna to do her magic and give the remaining swords to noctis during the leviathan fight. then there was that 10 time skip and world of darkness. I can see how it was meant to be a trilogy and so much was cut and condensed.

>Trilogy
No, just a three act structure.

So happy to see that there are others not sucking FFXII cock and saying it's the best FF ever.

Make her a turbo slut that especially enjoys fucking chocobos

Just don't kill her off.

That's all you need to do. Have Noct meet her and marry her, then either have her join the party as the last member (and the white mage) or shuffle her offscreen.

Test

WIthout changing her dying, then have her in the party and travel with the group to at least make her death seem impactful. Maybe have her and Noct be the first two party memebers, and you quickly end up with the others. Not only would her character be developed, but you would feel the lack of her presence in the party later on in combat.

Or as this user said, don't kill her off. There are other ways to draw emotional responses for characters besides killing them. But if that is what they are set on doing, then at least make her matter.

And the Empire completely vanishes after the timeskip. I thought the point of the game was for Noct to collect all the weapons from the tombs, proving himself worthy, then meet Luna for the powerup.

But no, ALL the weapons are optional.

Because it was only half finished at launch and will never be finished now that dlc is done.

Also hold circle to win.

Also the game turns into a hallway like ff13 after you go to that Venice looking place (I forget the name)

>pander to the west
>lose all soul and greatness

jap devs cucking themselves

Fuck off KH Cuck

>Kingsglaive

That one has the dumbest, most ridiculous final fight ever. Two teleporting combatants end up battling it out in the middle of an ACTIVE WAR ZONE. The villain in that one is a better fighter than fucking Ardyn.

Because Yea Forums told you so

Now go play it and get your own opinion

The game was trying to subvert expectations. Also they foreshadow the empire's death very heavily in chapter 13.

Oh and forgot, you have to watch the anime and movie first to play the game or else you won’t know what’s going on and won’t appreciate the relationship between the main characters as much.

1. Have her join the main party. If having a female presence would have messed with the "brotherhood" dynamic they were going for (like SE claimed) then you could have had her split off and form her own party like Reith did in Magna Carta Tears of Blood. The party could have consisted of Luna, Gentiana, Aranea (temporarily), Nyx, Libertus, or some other Kingsglaive member trying to make amends.

2. Have her actually INTERACT with Noctis in battle and during downtime segments. Sending cutsey notes and stickers in a notebook sent by expedited post through fluffy puppies is not a substitute for a real relationship.

3. They can still kill her off if they want to in order to show that the villains mean business or to add some tragedy to the story but they need to make us actually care about the character.

4. Giver the damn woman a bit more agency. Nothing wrong with someone being kidnapped or held hostage once but multiple times? They clearly didn't know what to do with her character.

this.

>pander to the west

The Japanese really need to stop doing this. When in the fuck will they realize that we Westerners enjoy their media because it is different from ours?

But 9 was pandering to the West.

V would have been more fun if it had been about magical maffioso rather than actual royality with destiny and shit
>In the land of FFXV, powerful magical families control access to precious mana crystals, the primary energy source to magitech
>The game starts with young maffioso prodigy Noctis (trueborn son of the don) falling in love with the rival gang member Luna, who is the godchild of the gang's dad. They meet during the tutorial mission, which is about the gangs fucking up the local authorities
>After the local authorities are taken out, Noctis dad and Luna's godfather has a falling out over the sharing of the spoils (control of mana crystals), and the two familias turn on each other
>Noctis ends up killing the godfather's trueborn son in self-defense
>Noctis now has to go on a road trip with his bros/bodyguards until the heat goes down (so they are chased by assassins, not a bargin bin evil empire)

After the initial Romeo and Juliet setup, the game strays away from this and does something of its own. The two major themes are:
>Brotherhood, first presented as the twisted criminal fraternity, but as the story progress and the characters mature, it game explores true brotherhood
>The meaning of loyality and self-sacrifice. Again, it is first presented through the scummy maffiaso protection rackets and how criminals pretend to be "noble protectors" of their people, but as the story progresses, the characters learn of true chivalry

The plot twist is that Luna (who is adopted) is actually a descendent of the MacGuffin family and holds the secret of unlocking [great power], so at some point the bros have to turn around, man the fuck up and go and save her. This the part where the themes of the show really starts to crystallize, as Noctis ends up having to reject his own family as well when he learns that they are as bad as Luna's family.

Ardyn is the big bad, a scummy (ancient archmage) playing everyone aganst each other since he wants Luna

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>The villain in that one is a better fighter than fucking Ardyn.

And he had an interesting backstory too. I could actually see the justification for his betrayal of Regis. Too bad most people won't know about it unless they dig around for it. Your average person won't fucking bother.

What a shit game lol.

It's also completely irrelevant, because the Empire was never important.

Everyone he knew and love probably died when darkness covered the land.

No it wasn’t, it was homage to the older “medieval” style ff games since the 2 before it were both more futuristic set.

I don't like the idea of Ardyn just being a creeper who wants Luna but I would still pay the fuck out of this game.

Luna is clearly the healer / summoner type. What I really didn't like is that magic is completely useless in this game. I've never been able to cast a spell without some form of friendly fire.

Giving the NPCs magic is like trusting a toddler with hand grenades. It always blows up in your fucking face.

Well, the idea is that with Luna he unlocks the [great power] that lets him get his whatever revenge.

Maybe he's the rightful king of the empire where the two familias are situated.

I believe you are confusing fujos with "the west". They definitely started to pander more to fujos during that time, but it was only superficial looks.

This game needed more Iris.

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It hurts to say but it's just time tomorrow from the franchise and it has been like that for at least 8 years

What goes up must come down as he always say nothing good lasts forever and that goes for video games too. For them to eventually go from good eventually downgrade into mediocre or live long enough to straight bad

Capitalism has dictated this but still could make money because of how big the industry is and how many new people get into video games but said franchise will never be the same again quality wise.

So you didn't play the game? Gotcha

>all of this best characters are guests

justify this

the main problem is that they are trying to use traditional final fantasy aesthetics in a hyper-realistic environment. its the same reason "final fantasy: spirits within" was awkward and uninteresting. basically they should have used the same types of costumes, designs, and set pieces but with a Valkyria Chronicles 1 type stylized manga look.

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>I've never been able to cast a spell without some form of friendly fire.

I just threw fire grenades at everything that moved and simply ignored the pained cries and screams of my best friends and retainers.

I loved the idea of drawing magic from the planet like FF8 and even combining drawn magic with items to make different types of magic or to cast it multiple times. It's too bad SE fucked even that up.

Westerners are far more fond of 9 than Nips.

My bad. Reading comprehension fail.

Is the Pocket Edition of the game worth investing in? Is it more of a “complete package” compared to the standard version? I always found chibis cute, so the graphics aren’t really an issue for me.

>The empire was never important.

Yeah. It's a damn shame. All of the good ideas are wasted on this game.

I put over 100 hours into FF15 and I don't regret it. The characters and story are quite good minus a few flaws. Combat was easy, but so is every FF game if we're being honest.
It's the best FF-anything since X. 12 was just ok

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No one in their right mind would try to justify this.

I wish we got more Cor. He was pretty cool.

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I doubt that, because it is the least popular of the playstation FFs. Nips would have to really hate it.

No I just ran out of text space so I couldn't explain Ardyn properly. Basically he the guy who could be quite unchanged and still be the big bad, but I personally prefer a villain who "ramps up a bit" to keep up with the development of the main characters.

Anyway, the story structure is:
>Tutorial
>Building on romance, the familia war (introducing the bros one at a time as you have one of them as a guest party member at a time), climax is the boss fight against Luna's "brother"
>ROAD TRIP - game takes on an episodic nature as there are several rather large sidequest sidestories you have to undertake at your leisure. The sidequests are to make the game themes more digestible and to give "spotlight" to your party members
>Save Luna questline unlocks, you can now return to the capital (or continue sidequesting)
>Evil emperor Ardyn finale (or sidequest)

What's really stupid is that Nyx manages to choose the worst out of ALL possible outcomes. He's place in the position where, in order to get powers, he has choose someone dying:

> Luna
> His buddy

He can't choose Luna, because if Luna dies the world is fucked. So he chooses to die himself, and he lives for the duration of the night. This is really stupid, because if he'd chosen his friend's death, he'd have survived with super powers. He could've singlehandedly transported Luna through the whole mess.

not much. even in the movie she was bland. she was all about helping noctis and sacrificing herself

Don't forget, it's inconsistent with how Ignis uses the ring later.

>VsXIII gets announced
>"wow this looks pretty cool and the gameplay looks quite fun"
>name change to XV, tabata takes over
>"this is very different and I prefer the versus stuff but this also has a lot of cool concepts that I think could make a 10/10 game"
>they fucked even that up

XV is one of, if not the biggest wastes of potential that the gaming industry has ever seen.

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They seem to only really like Steiner and Vivi, with Freya in an extremely distant third.

>the game used almost a decade old animations
I mean it still looks fine but that's pretty cool to see

Fishing was unironically the only good thing about this game

i thought he'd have a bigger role since he was originally in many of the promos. i think they might've cut him in favor of the bro road trip and having an older man ruins the dynamic they were going for i guess

Because the RPG mechanics are gimping the action part and the Action mechanics are gimping the RPG part.
They're not in harmony, but rather constantly at odds which leaves a game with the depth of a puddle in both Action and RPG aspects in its wake.
But this is just one of the issues that plague FFXV; like the completely unnecessary Open World aspect, the repetitive and monotonous quests; cutting off parts of the campaign in DLCs and third media that are required to understand what happened in the game, which is terrible because you need to go out of your way to consume other stuff in order to properly appreciate the game; the Magic and Summon systems; among other problems.
And if we put into account how the game was at launch then it's laughable that there were actual human beings who defended the game when it launched in that state.

So WAIT A MOMENT

Luminous Studios head director CONFIRMED they are working on a new IP.

But everyone told me Tabata left because they were going to transform his new ip to XVI? And that he didn't want to direct a new mainline FF game?

I dunno.

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Give her some actual character development and moments with Noctis. Like the cellphone thing they were apparently planning when she was just Stella at the time.

>30 Million Dollar Loss.
>Lowest rated Final Fantasy game critically.
>Satisfaction rate is at the lowest.
>Green-lit a second batch of DLC when the first sold less then expected.
>PC release less then 800k sold.
>Generally regarded as a disappointment and at worst the lowest ranking FF game.

Get real: The suits at Square aren't going to take this shit lite. They most definitely asked him to resign to save face and he did.

It's funny considering he was talking out of his ass about bringing FFXV everywhere, and it the end it turns out he made a deal with Google's Stadia. He was probably going to be talk person on the stage, since you can see the FFXV appearing in the trailer heavily.

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i used the debug menu to have her with me the whole game... it was kind of creepy

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This

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I finished it 2 days ago. There's a 9/10 game there somewhere, beneath all the chaos and different directions over the years.
I'm not even angry, just sad for state of the game.

>Suits wanted Nomura to make KH3 (and then FF7R) so they pulled him off the project early on
>Put a vastly under prepared Tabata on it
>Tabata proceeded to make a laundry list of bad decisions and chopped up what was a legendary premise/story/setting for a game

Very simple really

Just Occam's Razor it. He was (Japanese) fired.

XV almost had a good opening though
>Prince and his best friends head on road trip for his marriage to childhood friend that was a condition for two countries peace treaty, meanwhile the peace treaty signing was a ruse to stage a heist for the princes country's magic crystal.
Shame most of that was turned into a fucking movie.

I think the worst part was the story, what the actual fuck was that? Even if the game itself was trash the story could have saved it

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I want Iris to sit on my dick.

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Based

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Same

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>Noctis went for Luna instead of this
Absolutely disgusting

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It's a shame. I don't have anymore Iris either

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It’s cool, man. Wish Aranea got some love, too.

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I think the real test will be when Squeenix releases the next mainline game whose development wasn't affected by the clusterfuck that was FF14 Original Recipe. If that game also sucks, the franchise is doomed.

What 15 was missing the most in it's opening was a hook, that moment that gets you excited for the rest of the game and sets you off on your adventure. What they needed to do was..

>If you want to start it off as a road trip then provide a little more time within the city, meet the bros and get to know them a little before starting
>Meet dad when you're ready and set off on your trip
>Opening credits is the drive out of the city
>Late title screen fades into the car broken down

You'd still have to put in more work between this moment and when Insomnia is attacked but at least this would get you off on a better foot. Starting off the game with no info and no character building only to wander aimlessly around the desert with no real interesting things going on was a bad beginning.

>If you want to go all the way start the game out within Insomnia and cut the trip away
>Have "the meeting" and appropriate scenes with Noctis, Luna, and the gang
>Go directly into the Insomnia invasion

It's criminal that the invasion was cut, THAT was the moment the game needed early on to set the tone.

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>her DLC is forever cancelled
The pain never ends

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i NEED webms of iris doing lewd things

>Not cute AND lewd

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It depends what you are looking for. I agree the story was really weak in this expac, especially since I hate the ala mhigans. Though the ultimate raids are the best thing they have ever done. The fights don't even offer content relevant rewards, but people are still trying to get their clear because it's fun and you get to flex on people.

I do think standard savage raids need some kind of change. I wasn't a fan of what was essentially a nostalgia wankfest. It needed a little more variety.

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It's alright. There's still hope.

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The boyband trip was a mistake, Iris, Aranea, Cor, and Luna all should have been fulltime party members, maybe even Cidney too.

Can we keep Ignis at least?

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Keep them all, just instead of having a 4 person cast let's bring it up to a more normal size of 8.

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I like the sound of that

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Final fantasy 15 is one of my favorites in the series.

This. People bitch about devs cutting content but FFXV literally made a fucking CGI movie with the amount of shit they cut from this piece of shit game.

We've discussed FFXV so thoroughly over the years that I don't even know what else I could say about it. Everything, every corner, is filled with some cut corner or some major issue. Even Episode Ardyn, which has a surprising amount of effort in it at times, copypastes assets wherever it can get away with it and then forces you to go fight a bunch of almost-identical guardians in an empty pseudo-open city to pad out the length of the DLC with scoring shit to pray you don't finish it too fast.

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:)

I'd be fine with them canning FF7R and going right into FF15R.

>implying Square wouldn’t screw up twice

Remember how the game firmly recommends you go through a gameplay tutorial that doesn't actually have any story relevancy itself, yet awkwardly sandwiches literal murals and plot dumps in full text of the world mythos and backstory so players aren't lost when they finally start it up?

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>A Final Fantasy for Fans and First Timers

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greed, gross mismanagement

>But everyone told me Tabata left because they were going to transform his new ip to XVI?
this was a lie created by xv-kun. he wanted people to believe that Square management liked XV so much that they wanted him to do the next one

It's a mechanical reworking of the base game with none of the add ons. It is also linear as all shit and pretty much only adds a stupid treasure hunting minigame. If you want to save hard drive space however then go for it.

I wont stop loving this game

It baffles me because Final Fantasy isn't complex. The best games everyone knows about all try to ease you in. But here comes XV being braindead simple and literally putting a tutorial together from leftover assets while plot dumping things that you should be learning in the game itself rather than so blithely from tutorial text walls that speak from an outside perspective summary.

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i cant stop loving it, im emotionally attached to it

>kingdom hearts games manage to contextualise their tutorials for all their games
>versus 13/xv obviously would have had the same thing
>probably got cut like every other good idea this game had

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U all here just parroting the same opinions over and over en mass while trying to sound like some sort of thespian critic, its worse than a /pol echo chamber in here

Who knows why, and who knows if it even really IS that bad.

I mean, who the fuck even played it?

hold X to win

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When compared to KH3, it’s actually good.

>None of the main party members develop as characters throughout the game after being dumped on you at the beginning with almost no introduction. The fact that they've been friends for years with almost nothing shown of this makes it impossible to care about them as opposed to other games in the series
>Combat is braindead easy and you literally cannot die outside of DLC superbosses which purposely limit your healing items
>Most of the plot happens offscreen and plot important characters get shunted into the background after their brief screen time
>DLC still explains almost nothing of importance
Why do you think it was shit?

How much time do you have?

Fuck off Barry

FOR JARED

The game is shit, nigga. Deal with it.

While Tetsuya Nomura was making FF Versus 13, the game looked incredible and had so much potential. It was a FF like we never seen before. But then in 2014, Square kicked Nomura off the project to make Kingdom Hearts 3 and Final Fantasy VII Remake and then handed off the project to Tabata. At first Tabata said he would keep Nomura’s original vision intact but the more we saw from the game, the less it started looking like Versus XIII what we all was hyped about and more like a generic AAA open world game.

The game came out and it was rushed, severely lacking content and the story was an utter dumpster fire that was literally unfinished. Since the original release in 2016, Square attempted to fix the game and finish it but then they dropped the bombshell that they would cancel 3 out of the 4 planned DLC to further fix XV story was cancelled and that Tabata was shitcanned. So now the game will go down as an unfinished mess and the biggest wasted potential of all time. Episode Duscae is when everything went to shit

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>While Tetsuya Nomura was making FF Versus 13, the game looked incredible

It's easy to make something look amazing when it's all pre-made cutscenes and tech demos. And Nomura was kicked from the game because SE had a deadline to keep and didn't have time to waste another ten years waiting for Nomura to actually do some work.

Innumerable reasons, from an empty open world, to sidequests that are all exactly the same, to combat that revolves around holding circle and occasionally pressing square, to massive chunks of plot that aren't explained outside of DLC and movies, the list goes on.

They literally removed Nomura to focus on KH 3 and FF7 Remake because he couldn’t possibly make 3 goddamn games at once

Kinda hard to make a game when your retarded bosses keep pulling your team off your project to go save their other clusterfucks.

How do I get over the empty feeling this game left?

They gave him permission to make a trilogy then went back on their word and pulled him off the project. Nomura actually did nothing wrong and the lions share of the blame lies with the execs being retarded.

That's kinda been SE's thing for a long time now, the higher ups have been shooting the company in the foot since the late PS1 era.

He’s not wrong. But that’s not saying much

>Nomura actually did nothing wrong
That's going too far. The guy goes way over time and budget all the time and consistently produces garbage stories and mediocre gameplay, KH1/2 being the only exceptions.

Because it was released unfinished and made by modern Square Enix

>tfw bought this horseshit at launch
I will never not be mad

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>Literally turned to him to save the company

He really didn't do anything wrong with Versus, they gave him permission to make what he wanted and then went back on it once they realized it would mean waiting a while before getting to KH3 or 7R.

nomura is neither a writer or a gameplay designer. when are people going to realise that a game is made by more than one person?

>Episode Duscae is when everything went to shit

I had faith that they could build upon ED combat, but they just scraped it and made it from scratch.

Bought it the other day and uninstalled it not even an hour ago.
Feel like I have to little control in combat and suddenly fighting lvl 50 enemies when I'm still lvl 5 or something.

Would have been okay if it was just 20 GB but what were they thinking with that 80 GB size?

I was gifted the game at launch and felt like my sibling wasted too much money on it - especially since he bought himself a copy too. He played up until right before Titan before the honeymoon phase wore off and he saw the game for the empty, boring mess that it was.

I still took the bait because I bought the PC version myself on massive discount for the better performance and mods, only for Square-Enix to abandon the game and thus the modding tools, and the game itself to hog so much fucking RAM because of how unoptimized it is that it crashes all the fucking time on my 8GB despite the rest of my specs being fully capable of playing the game fine at the highest for the most part.

>I had faith that they could build upon ED combat
same here user youtube.com/watch?v=Qr2t2Si60Ak. this system had a lot of potential, if only Tabata didn't send out those retarded surveys and trusted his combat designers instead

Agreed

>Making an ARPG FF is a fucking awful idea
not necessarily. crystal chronicles, explorers, even tabata's own type-0 were better than xv just by virtue of not being "hold o to win" movies.
the problem isn't necessarily that they chose an action-based combat system. the problem is that when tabata took over, he decided it should become the easiest and least engaging action-based system ever made.

>If you enjoyed Final Fantasy 15 then I have no hope for you in life.
surely by now you've realised that this industry is full of literal retards. just look at how people defend games like Anthem and Fallout 76 despite them releasing completely broken. developers can literally do anything and people will always defend them

KH3 and FF7R weren't even things when FF13vs was first announced.

Shouldn't we do that with all final fantasy girls though?

Crystal Chronicles reminds me both that they've got the remaster coming up, and that the only actual non-multiplayer and non-sim game they made was a Wii gimmick game where you fling people and objects around with gravity magic. Christ, all of that setting potential and it's floundered like Ivalice except worse.

>Type-0

The story was garbage but I enjoyed the combat so much. I was shocked at how much fun it was to play.

Square's biggest problem is Ariel Combat: Just fucking stop that. It ruins the combat flow and creates an axis of cheapness that is hard to balance.

KH3 had this, FFXV had this, and I am sure FFVII will have this.

honestly, does it even matter anymore? persona and kingdom hearts have already surpassed final fantasy as the standard-bearers of the genre. also, final fantasy's spinoffs have been far better than any of its main games post-ff9. i can't imagine ever getting hyped up for a main-series final fantasy game again.

>Type-0
>12 unique characters that reimagine class/jobs
>moogles
>actual magic
>utility magic
>you can actually die
>final boss has a final form
>you fight gilgamesh on a bridge
>actually need to time your dodges
>decently designed fights that arent a complete clusterfuck sometimes

If you waste 10 years and haven't even settled on an actual plot for a game then the only person you can blame for getting the boot is yourself. If it had been anyone else they would have been fired. To make things worse, the higher-ups forced Tabata on the project, gave him a strict deadline, then told him to fuck off when he said that the game was not finished.

It's funny how Nomura will get defended to the death, while Tabata got the blame for every thing.

>It's funny how Nomura will get defended to the death, while Tabata got the blame for every thing.

This. It just doesn't feel right blaming Tabata.

>friend just went to redownload KH3 on PS4
>and for some reason the FFXV trailer plays in the preview video instead
is square trying to say something

You're not wrong here. It really doesn't matter any more in the grand scheme of things. As much as I can't stand Persona people prefer that, Kingdom Hearts, and the Xeno series over FF. New RPGs are coming out that are leaving FF in the fucking dust.

Who in the FUCK thought Hold O combat was a good idea? Like seriously, that is the most bonehead decision you can make. No input required, just hold down O until the enemy is dead. That makes the combat so braindead.

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i'll never understand how he went from that to "hold o to win."

>The guy goes way over time and budget all the time
Source?

i actually used to defend Tabata a fair bit in the beginning but as time went on he just kept making stupid decisions that i couldn't really defend. he was put in an impossible situation, yes, but gutting the story and ruining the gameplay so that it can appeal to casuals was his decision. putting out surveys and changing stuff a year from release because of feedback from people who are shit at games and no idea how development works was retarded. insisting that the team make the game open world "because its what westerners like" is retarded. replacing Stella was fine, but Luna was a dogshit character who had chunks of her story cut see dawn trailers, making her the worst character in the game and just made the removal of Stella even worse. changing character designs to look more western was retarded and disrepctful to both Nomura and Ferrari. i could go on but you get the point. he didn't need to make these changes, but he did and they were all bad decisions. stuff like the airship was his decision though, and that could have been good if you didnt get it after beating the game and only need it for one area. Pitious Ruins was also great, despite the controls working against you the entire time. there are a few good ideas, but they're largely overshadowed by his retardation and desperate attempts to appeal to westerners and casuals

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People fuss over the "hold O" part, but honestly that's not even giving the combat control enough credit for how bad it is. Not only does your character auto-run to the nearest / locked-on target, but every single combat animation is AI-driven by positioning, distance, and which direction you're holding on the analog stick. There are players that know how to influence their attacks, which is abusable with certain weapons, but holding O is the least of your worries when combat animations aren't cancellable usually and most of the time Noctis feels like he does whatever the fuck he wants to do.

I can concede that them going for a weapon swapping mechanic was a better idea over Episode Duscae's "use this weapon for melee spam, this weapon for closing the distance, this weapon for backattacks" shit, but you still have so little proper control over your character.

Try getting out of the car, or upgrading the car to it's offroading form.

I mean, there's still nothing to do in the open world, but you're wrong, either way.

>10 years

user I don't think you understand, Nomura wasn't on the project for 10 years, he was only on it for a few, the only part of the project he was given time to complete was the setup of story and characters.

>the AI intuitively outputs an action that kind of satisfies
But it doesn't. Not even kind of.

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>Nomura is told he can make a trilogy
>Spends the alotted time setting up the story and lore
>When he is supposed to get a team to go into full scale production they instead pull him away from it and force him to make KH3 (then later surprise him with FF7R)
>Tabata put onto the project despite not having the required expertise
>Spends 7~ years fiddling around and twisting the original designs into a horrific shape

Now any sane person has to agree this isn't ALL the fault of Tabata, he was put into a bad spot, but he is responsible for what happened after that. He purposely designed various aspects of the game to be the way they are and they are fucking awful. By no means is the whole issue his fault but he is to blame with all of the poor decisions he made about the game.

I think the big issue here is how many people want to get into this discussion but don't understand the facts, they think Nomura was in charge for 9 years and then Tabata came in and in 6 months threw the game together. The reality of the matter is that it was only Nomuras project for a very short time, Tabata is the one who caused it to take 10 fucking years because he had no idea what he was doing, nearly sabotaging the project multiple times with bullshit like forcing it to be open world.

Jesus christ, user...

The sad thing is that if they'd made a literal movie instead of a game, it could have been amazing.
Or hell, 90's Squaresoft could have pulled a game off with thar concept, easily.

I'm so let down now. Not only did FFXV suck ass, but it's what we got instead of a bunch of much better ideas.

You haven't played many games in your life if you actually think that.

How you feel about the game has nothing to do with its quality.
Which is very poor.

To be fair, as someone that's been bitching in this thread about the game, FFXV isn't the godawful dumpster fire some folks make it out to be. It's a very mediocre game besides a couple highlights among the sea of monotony and underwhelming, rushed design. It didn't kill your firstborn child, it just bored them to sleep.

You mean Aerial, right

It's not the worst game ever made but it's definitely far below average. Most of what makes the game "good" comes from there still being small shreds of the original story/ideas left and now and then they surface.

Personally I'd say i liked my playthrough but I can't call it a good game by any means, it's nothing but a mountain of wasted potential.

The combat was too easy. The annoying thing is there's actually a cool combat system buried in there, but there's no reason to use it when spam is almost as effective, and the game is somewhat vague about how a lot of it's cooler combat features work. Plus the fact that it's so easy to stockpile high end healing items.
Also the fact that there's not enough character customization, I mean you can't even really make a magic focused character.
The open world was mostly garbage.
The car rides are cool for about three minutes until you realize that there's no fucking dialogue. I mean what reason did they have to not just sit the voice actors down and tell them to shit talk in character for a few hours. It would have made the drives much more interesting if there was some conversation in there.
Most of the story is buried away in the film and anime they released. And we're not talking about side stories, we're talking about major plot points that you can't really understand the game without. I mean really Noctis's story just feels like the capstone to the film rather than being the bulk of the storyline.
The world doesn't make sense and doesn't really feel alive. There's demons wandering around all over the world but none of these outposts have any walls or armed guards or anything? Also there's only a small handful of character models and it's not unusual to see people walking around with their twins, I mean jesus christ could they not have programmed it so that the same model can't appear twice in a certain range?
The dungeons are boring, they're just monster mazes, usually set in uninteresting locales.
The summons don't make sense, and they're honestly too disruptive to the game. And before anyone berates me by saying that summons have always been that way, A: no they haven't, they've only been that disruptive in a few games, and B: This game billed itself as more of an action game than an RPG, so it's less excusable.
Honestly, this game needed work.

I know that pain, I got the deluxe edition at launch and was so disappointed I couldn’t even bother downloading anything past the Gladio dlc.

Driving and plot

VII might make it out ok iirc the KH2 combat designer is handling it.

Timeline's off user.

Versus was in development hell a few years, maybe 3 at most, then the team got gutted for FFXIV. when the project got up and running again, maybe 3 years later, Nomura also had to contend with KH3 and FFVIIR, so Tebata got passed the baton. He then shat out a rushed product with no clear vision within 3 years, and spent the following 2-3 years patching in "content" that in no way fixed the core issues the game had.

Tabata got handed a complete story, and had only to make a game to express this story. Instead, he spent tons of time reinventing the vision of the gameplay and story every other month until he ran out of time and released a pathetically unfinished game.

He had time to make a halfway decent game with a great plot, and instead acted like a spaztic retard. FFXV's problems are, in the end, entirely Tebata's fault.

Another big issue for an action style system is party control, 15 sucked badly at making itfeel like you were in control of the whole group and that they were working in tandem.

They put some of the big names on the VII Remake this time around. They already have the entire story plotted out and have since maybe 2017 (not that that's hard to do since the entire story's already laid out to begin with). The biggest problem with the remake is that Nomura had to get KH3 done first before VIIR could start progressing for real.

I'm a versusfag but you have to be delusional to actually believe this

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>when are people going to realise that a game is made by more than one person?
What do you think I was implying when saying two Kingdom Hearts games were good in spite of him? The man is in charge of the fundamentals of combat (which is why his games play similarly regardless of lead combat designer) and the basics of the story and characters (which is why the same archetypes and character tics/tone and structure persist). Everything we see across his games show he isn't perfect, he has revurring, glaring flaws in how he sets his team about tasks and the structure of his games. To take all blame from him or pretend VS would have been amazing is disingenuous at worst, ignorant at best.

>ignores the second half of the sentence
Call me when we get a numbered game with good real time combat.

You're blaming him for messing up something he never even had the chance to make. I get it that you specifically don't like his games but again your opinion doesn't somehow mean they are factually bad.

It's not the literal worst game I've ever played, but that's a technicality.
It's "complete" in a sense, playable and has no game breaking bugs. Etc.

However, it's by far the worst FF, worst Square game, worst PS4, XBONE and current gen AAA PC game and it had 10 years of buildup and hype before it released.

It had a great pedigree, but it all got wasted on the blandest, waste of time of a game to potentially ever exist.

At best, it's the single worst developed AAA game ever made.

It didn't kill my first born, but it's still a massive waste of time, money and (barely) effort.

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No, I'm saying the man has a history of bad design decisions and poor directorial priorities. I even said two of the games he directed are good, this isn't because I'm some angry hater. There are elements of Versus 13 that were fucking stupid, especially for a PS3 project. I went over some of this earlier today when I first popped into the thread: going for four different playable real time action game characters in your cinematic, story driven game while ALSO wanting large scale world maps in your 30+ hour game is beyond ambitious, it's fucking ridiculous. KH3 had like five years dev time, used an outsourced engine, and ran on hardware whose onboard memory was, no joke, like 6x better, and it STILL isn't as feature rich and sprawling as VS was supposed to be.

Tabata is a fucking idiot, but Nomura's design for the game was fucking impossible. To wash him clean of all blame is retarded. VS never could have existed on PS3, and even if it moved to PS4Pro it would be unlikely to live up to his goals.

it's one thing if cuts are made, you know. games have it happen all the time, even movies have it happen, things get dumped onto the cutting room floor and potentially never seen again. Nomura was too ambitious, and a lot of his loftier ideas would've probably been left on that floor. it's a different story when development troubles with a tight deadline and a director swap result in a massive canvas where they simply got too ambitious for how little time they had, tried to rework parts of the canvas for no good reason other than the new director's tastes, and then had no room for filling in even half of what they had shown and displayed.

I'd say it's better for Nomura to be ambitious at the very least, because Tabata sold us something that was very unfinished (not entirely of his own fault, but a number of problems exist due to him) compared to leaving things on the cutting room floor.

The invasion would have certainly been the tutorial level. Or maybe training with the bros right before it

>haven't even settled on an actual plot for a game
But he did. The issue was not the plot
>gave him a strict deadline
lol I hope you didn't fall for fake leaks nigga

That's nice and all.
Doesn't change he's responsible in part for the train wreck. As misguided as his decisions were, a lot of what Tabata did was in an attempt to actually implement things promised in the VS phase of the project. He's a dumb motherfucker and deserves blame for doing a shit job, but this "NOMURA GOOD BOY HE DID *NOTHING* WRONG HE IS BLAMELESS VS WOULD HAVE BEEN GREAT IF ONLY HE MADE IT" garbage is moronic, especially when KH3 just came out and was a downgrade from 2 in every respect but graphics and gummi ships. The man was directing a project and did a bad job in the preproduction phase, setting unrealistic goals for basic features that could not possibly be scaled back with ease once production started.

How would you guys have fixed the combat?

>did a bad job in the preproduction phase
1. Wait for the crystal tools engine to finish
2. Team is pulled off to work on Final Fantasy 13
3. Every AAA game is delayed after Final Fantasy 14 1.0 bombed
4. Forced to work on the crystal tools engine after it's been made clear that it's a bad engine and SE had already begun planning to replace it after they just finished crystal tools a few years before
I'm not excusing everything wrong, but Nomura does not run Square Enix. It's not his fault upper management is retarded and screwed over the game

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Just copy and paste KH’s combat.

Give every weapon type a distinct combo set that doesn't have the auto AI bullshit, that requires actual button presses, even if the combos are basic as hell. Give different weapon types their specialties, so a Spear is better for aerial combat, a Dagger is better for fast single target damage, a Two-Handed Sword is a crowd clearer, etc. Make some enemies have more proper telegraphing (some larger foes literally just shake and send Noctis on his ass), but give Noctis a button press dodge rather than a button hold dodge so that it requires more timing to avoid things (so basically alter the dodge roll into a fancier equivalent). Make Armiger less of a super auto death mode and more of a mode shift, able to toggle out of it if need be, as it enhances your attacks and combos, you can literally make it like Sin Devil Trigger in DMC5. Turn magic into a shortcut option alongside techs, so that Noctis can quick cast magic spells he learns over the course of the game (why can Regis shoot lightning from his hands but Noctis needs pre-prepared grenades?). Add techs per weapon type he can pull off so that the Team Techs can be more unique and stand out better. Improve play control so that Noctis doesn't feel like he's doing nothing but stiff and canned animations for every single goddamn attack.

>tfw I would actually play this
>tfw we could have gotten this instead of Hold O to win
Jesus Christ, we were robbed.

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>I'm not excusing everything wrong
Except the part where you excuse him at every possible juncture and the entire argument is "he is also to blame." Not as much as Tabata or the execs. But he is.

>every possible juncture
Nomura does not run se, user. The shit that was listed are known facts that happened and shit he had to deal with. Kinda hard to work in the pre-prod. phase when the company keeps taking a shit on your lap
You want to blame him for something, complain about his struggle with world design

So according to this thread, Final Fantasy starts being less interesting since FF10 or right after FF10? I only played the first 4 games and I own FF10 and 10-2 on the PS Vita, I want to play the PS1 games, and it seems I don't need to try with the other games after that, right?

I'd say after XII

10 was the last proper FF game. It's been experimentation since.

i liked it very much and don't get the hate. you guys are just mememasters and bandwagoners

>Bandwagoners

DURR GOOD SALES=GOOD GAME

DO NOT QUESTION

JUST CONSUME

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Son, you need to play Secret of Evermore or Unlimited SaGa to know true pain.

oh the irony

Also personal preference, but leave Back Attacks solely to ambushes or stealth kills rather than being able to happen at any time in a fight, and Link Strikes should only be able to happen if an enemy is in the staggered state where you can randomly get a teammate to do a extra strong attack or finisher with you. Remove the randomness of this shit out of combat, make it entirely player voluntary.

I think Summons technically work as is for what they are right now, and I don't know what the Armiger Unleashed should be reworked as.

Is episode Ardyn any good? I didn't realise it was out

You never hated something someone else liked? Ever?

10 is where the series changes, but it's not bad because of those changes. 11 by in large is the best Final Fantasy experience, it's just one that requires far more time and effort than a single player game (and has since been gutted, so it's pretty much gone). After 11 it goes downhill fast, 12 was itself subject to a massive amount of development issues and they never recovered.

based

Ignis is a very bland and one-note character, user. I like him the best of the bunch but the DLC hurt him a lot.

>the initial Chapter 13
Don't talk like it was significantly improved. They just buffed the ring and called it a day.

And then added an option to just skip it near-entirely by playing through as Gladio/Ignis instead in a super slimmed down side story variant, despite the fact that they shouldn't even have their weapons.

He uses Noctis flippy, shitty combat but with less variety and no manual finishers, so it's even more automatic and brain dead.

>Make some enemies have more proper telegraphing
The biggest problem with ff15. It feels like you're just trading blows and chugging potions rather than learning and reacting. It's like the most basic element of making an action game. Deliberate player controls and clear enemy actions working in unison. Instead you get pause game drink potion.

I played the game on release and heard that they """fixed""" it. I assumed that they had done some overhaul to it, but it was still probably shit. Didn't realize they did so little.

Development hell, lack of focus, and, in the end, a muddle vision with some terrible ideas.

>SE literally thinks they're doing better now because they made money on two games that have long been anticipated and players had no idea would be utter piles of shit.

Come on son.

The only thing they ever actually put effort into wholesale was "fixing" Insomnia for the endgame with the Royal Edition. And that split the fans in half because it expanded a fairly straightforward final dungeon area into a whole thing with sidequests, extra story snippets, meeting your Comrades character, and 4 extra final boss fights on top of the pre-existing 2 (Cerberus and the 3 Corrupted Kings). Also the whole shit with Ardyn creating the Wall just to troll Noctis, and Luna's ghost appearing alongside the other Astrals to blow apart the Wall for a dramatic moment before said final battles.

They didn't really fix anything else in the post-Altissia rush and the fucked up endgame prior to Insomnia, and many people aren't happy with the Insomnia overhaul despite the effort put into it. Tabata and his team simply failed to understand what people were really annoyed about, because the rest of the patches and Royal Edition just added extra shit on top like the monster truck, a boat, the Armiger Unleashed, online daily quests, and other random shit.

What the fuck were they thinking?

People like FFXV for the boys which is fair. I can't imagine they can like it for anything else

It's just another case of a game aiming for higher heights than the console specs will actually allow. It just took them 10 years to finally notice.

Up next is is Beyond Good and Evil 2.

>he didn’t see Advent Children

I encountered some of this problem throughout the game but it mainly cropped up in Costlemark Tower and the level 120 Nafagir sidequest. Jesus christ, FFXV's combat barely works to begin with, but surrounded by a dozen or more enemies that hit you every single second you're not dodging is absurd. And the Nafagir takes so much damage but keeps firing out near-assured knockout blows every few seconds, meaning the only way to win is to know and dodge every single attack (one of which is a 'fire outwards and return' attack that can only be dodge rolled but the camera tries to prevent you from seeing on the rebound) and wear it down without your party members, or spam health items out the ass as you say.

It's not fun slamming your face against a brick wall spamming heals like a fucking addict. It's not even hard, it's just resource spam.

>Nah. Everything is the fault of putting Tabata on a game that was wholly incompatible with his strengths and bad design decisions that date back to VS13 being upheld.

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So did Somnus and Ardyn's waifu purposefully screw him over because they knew he was supposed to turn into the bad guy?

Holy shit, that’s retarded

>It's not fun slamming your face against a brick wall spamming heals like a fucking addict. It's not even hard, it's just resource spam.
That’s literally the entire game in a nutshell

It's not really explained whether Aera and Somnus knew or not but the gods screwed Ardyn over and he was always ordained to be the villain. If his brother didn't attack him and Aera the Gods would have purposefully fucked him up another way.

You people say that you hate this game above everything in the whole universe, yet you can't stop talking about it?
Why are you so obsessed?
Just let it go, and let people who like it like it.

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>You people say that you hate this game above everything in the whole universe
That is a bad hyperbole, no one is saying this. The discussion of Square going from one of the most respected JRPG developers to the joke they are now is very interesting topic.

Have one guy work on it for ten years then kick him for a PSP dev who doesnt believe in challenge and let him throw out years of work for his own stuff

>changing character designs to look more western was retarded and disrepctful to both Nomura and Ferrari.

The fuck are you talking about? If there is one thing that stayed pretty much the same it is the character design.

if other people not liking the game you like makes you not like that game, kys

I get it. They want it to appeal to a wide audience, it was expensive to ake after all.
But when did causal start to mean braindead? I dont know a single person who would have more fun driving a car than just hod a button and watch it go. Surely there isnt an audience on earth that has more more holding an attack button over timing it themselves. This mythical audience doesnt exist.

do you really believe there aren't people on this planet that are completely braindead?
i mean modern capeshit movies are the cinematic equivalent of pressing the attack button and letting it go.

Except that these threads are 80% made of Nomurafagging and hating on Tabata with the occasion of calling anyone who dares defend the game by any means Barry or the worst taste-man.
When did I say that?

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Yeah I do. Even mobile gamers have more interaction with their games than they thought players of FF15 wanted

So now that Tabata has called it quits to go start his own company, who is going to take the fall when Nomura fails to deliver on FF7R?

There are people in this very thread, myself included, that have pointed out that folks are overdramatic, but the game's still mediocre and nowhere near what it could've been. Cool your jets,

>Except that these threads are 80% made of Nomurafagging and hating on Tabata with the occasion of calling anyone who dares defend the game by any means Barry or the worst taste-man.
What the fuck? Why are you strawmanning like this?

Mad as fuck.

Okay I'll admit that I just glanced through and looked at only the first few posts but the other threads have been what I described.

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>When did I say that?
>let people who like it like it.
?

>meeting your Comrades character
Wew, really?
Don't forget that ghost Luna summoning all the summons was fucking retarded too because Bahamut appears there and his climatic reveal is right after. What is even going on at SE that they kept fucking up so hard?

Yes? When the fuck did I say that? By "letting people who like it like it", I meant that if anyone dares say they like FFXV they're suddenly the worst person in existence

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>yet you can't stop talking about it?
People are only talking about it because the DLC came out, there was nothing about it in months before this.
Just admit you have no argument to defend your game with.

Eh, I don't see the problem with Bahamut in that scene. He was already "revealed" in Chapter 13/14.

No, you just did the same shit with other threads.
Don't be that faggot.

>I meant that if anyone dares say they like FFXV they're suddenly the worst person in existence
so? why does that matter?
if you care that the game you like is a laughing stock, i'll say again: kys

XV plays and feels like it was some mmo turned into a single player game

>having a victim complex this big
wew lad

>Wew, really?
Yeah, they show up with the gear from your Comrades save, don't say a word outside of their combat vocals, and pair up with you for a sidequest (mostly a fetch quest) as a guest party member. Besides some fluff dialogue after the quest, they disappear as soon as you get all the items and run off to do other stuff off-screen, which basically makes your Glaive the only "major" player character under the Gods' personal picks to still be kicking.

Every time this game is talked about it's "lol so bad game XDDD made square bankrupt LMAO"
Also I wasn't defending the game in any way.
I don't know what you're talking about
You have a point

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Honestly it seems more that youre an attention whoring shitter who isn't unpleasant to talk with, and people are telling you to fuck off.

>I don't know what you're talking about
You read a few posts then make a post generalizing the whole thread while pretending to be superiour to everyone else.

Suppose so
Oh sorry, understood wrong
Yeah maybe

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Don't be mean to the poor user, it's not like there isn't any other threads he could be browsing instead of this one he clearly dislikes.

If you dodge an AOE attack everyone else in the party will also avoid damage.

B A R R Y
A
R
R
Y

Still unsure how their bomb of a 2010 MMO has better definition in their character models and cutscenes than their 2016 hodge-podge release of a game.

Like, what the fuck is up with the constant hair speckling in XV? Who OK'd that? Pick another god damn hair rendering technique that doesn't stand out like a sore thumb among the blurry vista and motion-blurred car windshields.

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>he cook
>he mom for noctis
>he knife
>he blind but ninja
What a stunning personality

>the constant hair speckling in XV
What's that?

don't forget their solution for SSR reflections in bodies of water, ever since the whole big WE'RE GONNA SELL YOU THIS GAME THIS YEAR trailer, was quite literally cutting off all reflections at the edges of the screen and not even the PC version at max settings can fix this

I've only played it on PS4, but it's the shit in this screenshot. Every frame the hair speckles an alternating pattern, probably because their shit engine can't handle alpha masking on stuff like this easily.

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So you mean aliasing problems with the hair sprites.

Which resolves as a speckling artifact in motion.

Whoever is slotted in to direct when 2025 rolls around and the game isn't done.

I don't know how the SSR is so fucked in XV when it's a non-issue in XIV which uses a fork of the same god damn engine.

>mfw buying this with an open mind and playing it for more than 30 minutes

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Literally and I mean LITERALLY copy and paste Kingdom Hearts combat. Just that simple

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>i FUCKING HATE THIS GAME DUDE
>but let's have a daily thread about it that's most of the times over 200 posts
lol

I mean, XIV Vanilla was infamous as the game that modeled a flower pot using the same number of polygons and amount of shader code as a player character, so it makes sense.

Agreed, but it’s not even just Ignis they botched. Each DLC episode ruined what little potential all these characters had desu. Gladio’s hardly has any character building, Prompto’s is completely fucking retarded, and Ardyn’s doubles down on making him a generic sympathetic villain.

The only character in this game that has halfway decent writing is Noctis, which is unfortunate because since his character arc isn’t as fleshed out as it could be, he’s easily the second least interesting character (first is Gladio) in his current state.

These are made to bait Barry

XV as a whole is fucked on the rendering side of things. They don't do proper culling and instead seem to do it Bethesda style where it renders all of the immediate environment - except that still stretches out for miles on end whereas at least Bethesda uses intentional tricks and sight lines to cull excess stuff in the distance. XV also loves rendering entire continental areas that the game isn't even remotely close to in later chapters, and the PC benchmarking demonstrated that they're so bad at culling, they're rendering scenic NPCs like garudas or the like 24/7 if they're relevant to the area, which includes hairworks if you have that enabled with no level of detail optimization.

Square did at an absolutely awful job of optimizing their Luminous Engine for this shit and it shows. XIV does what it does by using area-based design instead of a seamless world, and it can pack a lot of shit in there as a result. It's pure competency in rendering and design.

It’s because this game has such a rich development history and a well of wasted potential that it’s cathartic to discuss how much of a clusterfuck it is. What can I say?