Objectively

And both Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are far better than those games

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ww has SOUL
tp is SOULLESS

I'm sorry did any Zelda game ever have an over world

yeah that what I thought

Miyamoto doesn’t understand why people aren’t griping Hitler yet

correct
WW's shoddiness is cleverly obscured by the illusion of scale and the art style, TP is better in every way that matters

yes

next question

isnt hitler the most griped person in modern history

Both are overrated trash praised by people too contrarian to give credit to OOT/MM/BOTW and too casual/zoomer to play 2D Zelda.

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I agree

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I agree

WW has a minimalistic story in comparison to TP, and yet TP story pales in comparison to WW. That's because for story and world building, WW does a lot more with less.

>story

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>WW
>Overworld
What the hell kind of bait is this

But yea, WW and TP are both good games but TP is clearly better.

>WW rushed out the ass
>TP less rushed but still rushed and comes with gimmicky shit
I bet both of these games would be top tier if a bit more time/consumer input went into their creation.

It's like comparing a big piece of shit and a smelly one, neither is actually good just like every 3d Zelda.

You didn't play all of them.

The beginning hints that the gods had to literally come in and intervene with ganon and evil sweeping across the land.

The reveal halfway through the game that to intervene the flooded old hyrule and you've been playing on mountaintops of OoT hyrule this whole time.

Zelda games are rarely known for their twists, but this one cemented the story for me as definitely being up there among the best the series has to offer.

I have and I can explain the blatant flaws in each one if you want.

So you're just a person who doesn't notice strengths and thinking noticing only flaws means you understand game design.

Wind Waker, Breath of the Wild and A Link to the Past are the best Zelda games.

2 out of 3 ain't bad. Of course talking about WW.

I'm not going to entertain your thoughtless shit flinging. Make an actual argument or take this final (You) and shut the fuck up.

>WW has a better overworld
oh yay I love empty layer of blue with empty copypasted islands

Not him but if you think 3d zelda is shit then your opinion doesnt contribute to the thread in any way.

We get it, your just being edgy for the sake of being edgy.

And for the record I think 2d zelda is superior zelda, your just bad at discussion/debate

Honestly, this.

Everything past OoT is trash but windwaker is where the series decisively turned into anime garbage and therefore it's the worst by default.

Even the best Zelda dungeons you're sort of going through the motions killing enemies that can barely dent your health bar and solving puzzles that require little thought.

Wind Waker has the best style of the series and some of the most memorable character moments, which is what most people play the game for. Twilight Princess is kneecapped by being generic as fuck.

Yeah, I'd agree

Nope.

Probably objectively but I think Wind Waker is still my favorite. So much charm and the feeling and spirit of adventure, even if it is kind of an illusion. Plus, its the one I played when I was 11 so it has to be my favorite

TP without the shitty wolf segments and the irrational fear of using colors would probably top WW.

TP or BotW is my favorite Zelda. I love every single one though.

That's not thoughtless shitflinging, you brought up "flaws" meaning a game isn't good, when every game ever has flaws. It takes way more seasoned taste to understand what a game does right, not what it does wrong, and just because you can point out flaws doesn't mean they aren't good games.

Tfw your the only guy who's favorite zelda is Zelda II

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i already told you you don't fucking exist now go away

>Wind Waker has the best style of the series
Fuck no, toon style overstayed its welcome after five games.

Fuck you. People who liked TP over WW need to be crucified on the fucking cross.

Seething lol

Come at me bro.
>TP artstyle only used once
>WW artstyle just KEEPS GETTING USED
Fucking miyamoto, we get it, you like the cel design.

>your opinion doesnt contribute to the thread in any way.
>your just bad at discussion/debate
There's nothing to discuss, this is one of the same shitty threads with an overly simplistic statement that baits assblasted idiots into replying with little to no substance. Meanwhile, actual Zelda threads made by people who want to talk about specific things they liked or thought about each game are ignored.
What the fuck is the point in trying when all I'll get is idiots like you who can't be bothered to throw out a real argument when they see a post they disagree with?

I like TP more, but WW graphically blows it out of the water. WW visually holds up better than RDR1. Graphics age, artstyle doesn't. TP is maybe my favorite Nintendo game ever and it fucking sucked graphically.

Yknow whose favorite Zelda is Zelda II? The jew Danny from Game Grumps, because he hasn't played a video game since 1987.

Honestly the whole beginning of TP drags it down a lot for me. It's got such a nice world to explore and the creators clearly wanted to harken back to OoT with it, but it takes several long hours just to get things rolling that it's by far the hardest to go back to and start up without nostalgia goggles

>just because you can point out flaws doesn't mean they aren't good games.
It does when these flaws are at the heart of each entry and bring them down to being mediocre at best and absolute trash at the worst.

>by being generic as fuck.
>has best girl in it
>Generic as fuck

A group of cazadors be cast upon you, heathen.

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Ahahaha, you have no clue how happy I was when he pulled out that game on game grumps and plowed through that baby. I dont even watch them much but I gotta give Danny credit there.

I came back to it and enjoyed it way more than I have any Zelda since I was little, so it's easily one of my favorites. Having depth and requiring effort goes a long way when it comes to Zelda

Fuck caz's, they weren't shit if you have a flamethrower. Just backpedal while spraying flames in their general direction and you'll take them down no problem.

I guess if you're a rifle fag they might be a bit more problematic, but fuck that, heavy weapons.

You're correct. I tried to replay it recently and the "tutorial" thing just goes on for HOURS.

>bring them down to being mediocre at best and absolute trash at the worst.
Holy fuck, what a bitch. There's never been a Zelda thats complete trash. Complete trash would be something unplayable.

>It does when these flaws are at the heart of each entry
It doesn't even then, assuming that's true, because again, every game has flaws, and you're still ignoring the games' strengths. Stop talking about (You)s when you're the one with the outlandishly contrarian position.

How slow are you to take hours to finish Ordon?

Phantom hourglass.

Not broken user, just gimmicky.

It is, sorry. Especially compared to one of Nintendo's most visually striking games.

Then why aren't you on those zelda threads instead? I prefer 2d zelda like you but you make us fans of the older games look like we got assburgers when your only opening statement is "both these zeldas stink cause their shit, all 3d zelda is shit, hurr durr."

You can claim your the one with arguments and everyone else is the idiots, but you acting like a retard doesnt help you with that case.

Not even Phantom Hourglass is that bad. Yes it's the worst, but it's just severely unmemorable and nonessential.

>Holy fuck, what a bitch. There's never been a Zelda thats complete trash. Complete trash would be something unplayable.
And this is what I mean when I say thoughtless shitflinging. All you can do is blurt a basic insult and your own feelings with absolutely no reasoning. I thought you deserved the benefit of the doubt, but I was clearly wrong, now take your (You) and fuck off.
>every game has flaws, and you're still ignoring the games' strengths.
So what, that does nothing to change my claim. The bad far outweighs the good.
>you're the one with the outlandishly contrarian position.
That would imply I don't actually believe what I'm saying so not really.

Is it weird that I really like BOTW but I really hope the open world and the god awful voice acting don't return in other games? I feel like it was a good experiment for one game, but don't want it to be a staple.

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Nah desu, Midna and Link's plight was more interesting than WW and their partnership is the best in the series. Nice visuals are nice, but dont help much when your game is rushed out the ass.

TPs visuals are the worst in the series and the waggle and wolf gimmicks we're shit

>The bad far outweighs the good.
CD games maybe.

>Then why aren't you on those zelda threads instead?
They're rare and practically dead by the time I find them.
>You can claim your the one with arguments and everyone else is the idiots, but you acting like a retard doesnt help you with that case.
True, but I'd rather not waste my time with a person that can't even be bothered to tell me to defend my claims.

Yeah I really enjoy VA in RPGs but not in zelda, it just ruins the feel for me.

>So what, that does nothing to change my claim.
No it doesn't.
>The bad far outweighs the good.
No one who understands game design, or what the 3D Zelda games brought to the table, especially at the time, finds this to be true. You're just a person who has an easier time spotting the bad than the good.
>That would imply I don't actually believe what I'm saying so not really.
Contrarianism has nothing to do with whether you actually believe it.

>the waggle
>playing on wii
Sad, TP is the best gamecube exclusive Zelda.

>No it doesn't.
*Yes it does.

Was it though? TP was just so bleak and the twilight world just didnt interest me at all. Towards the end you FINALLY start to see a bit of twilight world inhabitants but they only flesh it out in the final hours of the game. The rest of the time it's just a couple boring monster variations from the rest of the monsters in the world, not much else I felt like it added.

Did somebody say WIND WAKERRRRRR!

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Every single English VA they got just sounded fucking horrible, like they just hired anyone who walked in. It's the first time I ever changed the voice audio in a game out of disgust. And yeah, it just sounds really out of place in a Zelda game. I'm used to reading the dialogue in these games, not hearing it, and it feels awkward when it's read.

>Was it though?
It was.

>TP was just so bleak
It's one of the more uplifting Zeldas like Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time pre-WW. Everyone gets on the filter and automatically assume it's edgy without knowing the true definition of the term.

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Agreed. If they ever remake it they need to figure out a way to remove that section.

>what the 3D Zelda games brought to the table, especially at the time, finds this to be true.
They took away far more from what it had built up to that point than they gave. The difficulty is the most obvious example.
>Contrarianism has nothing to do with whether you actually believe it.
And that's why I said "imply" since your point was essentially that I look more like I'm baiting for replies.
I meant the 3d games specifically, TP for example has nothing going for it beyond its aesthetic.

twilight princess was trash and you know it

>TP for example has nothing going for it beyond its aesthetic.
Midna, the peak of Zelda characters, and a badass Link. Plus the soundtrack was great.

You just proved my point. My first response to you was saying, even if I agree 2d is better, your just making an ass out of yourself and its cause your "bad at discussion/debate."

Your acting like you actually care about discussion on the games but you really just want someone to blindly argue with you. We get it, its Friday night, and your lonely, desu.

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>wind waker was trash and you know it
Yes I know this.

Out of curiosity, what's your opinion on Ocarina of Time and Breath of the Wild?

>The difficulty is the most obvious example.
Difficulty has barely anything to do with a game being good or bad, unless you're aiming for a certain audience and fine tune the difficulty in a way that doesn't reach that audience. You don't know what you're talking about do you.

The great fairy design was also alot better than most other great fairies, IMO.
The hero's shade was cool and added a nice asthetic to the world, and the implication of link encountering past incarnations of him to interact with ala avatar is something that I'd love to see again.
Gorons looked their best in TP as well, IMO.

TP is objectively the worst 3D Zelda by far, all of the other 3D Zelda games have specific aspects done really well that make them stand out from other Zelda's & still aged well today. TP is the only one that excels at no particular aspect, is all around extremely mediocre & is downright unplayable due to the horrible graphics.

>unplayable due to the horrible graphics.
You mean this ironically right

>and the implication of link encountering past incarnations of him to interact with ala avatar is something that I'd love to see again.
The best thing about imo, is that it was optional. They could've made a big deal about meeting OoT Link, but they kept it up to the player.

It's true, it literally is the worst looking Nintendo game they've ever made. It aged like shit & only holds up if you are a incredibly biased nostalgia fag. Even when it came out it was outdated as fuck

Ride to Hell Retribution is an extremely mediocre & is downright unplayable game.

Not him, and I dont think 3d zelda is trash just cause of lack of difficulty, but the 3d being much easier is a big detriment. I enjoy both WW and TP and I've played both 2-3 times each, but I don't know if I've ever seen a game over screen in those games.

Meanwhile many dungeons even the beginning ones would give me the game over screen the first couple times I played Link to the Past and the NES zeldas.

I meant, how do the graphics prevent you from literally playing the game? Unless you're talking about the graphics making you not see shit clearly I thought it was just a colorful way of saying you don't like the graphics

>TP is objectively the worst 3D Zelda by far
We have SS user, a game that shit on the lore, Ganon and the only good Toon Zelda, Minish Cap. TP is the only good 3D Zelda post-MM.

But LA is the easiest Zelda, even easier than the 3D's. Does that mean it sucks too?

This was maybe one of the most memorable parts of TP to me. It's not my favorite but it definitely had memorable parts to it.

Because it looks like shit & when you are playing it feels like shit. Nobody wants to play a game that is graphically outdated as fuck & uses ugly color pallet art style. Graphics are the sole reason why Okami is so beloved & considered a masterpiece today.

I would say they are the best of the series along with ALttP.

damnit, nobody ever remembers MC. I wish we could get a 3d zelda game with Vaati as a villain.

I remember it. It's good but just feels like a bit of a watered down Oracle

Absolute Delusion, ourguys already debunked this
> RPGfan's Zelda game rankings
> 1. The Wind Waker (99)
> 2. The Legend of Zelda (99)
> 3. Skyward Sword (98)
> 4. Link's Awakening (97)
> 5. Ocarina of Time (96)
> 6. A Link Between Worlds (96)
> 7. Breath of the Wild (96)
> 8. The Minish Cap (95)
> 9. Oracle of Ages (93)
> 10. Oracle of Seasons (92)
> 11. Phantom Hourglass (92)
> 13. A Link To The Past (91)
> 14. Majora's Mask (91)
> 15. Adventure Of Link (83)
> 16 .Twilight Princess (81)
> 17. Spirit Tracks (80)

>unplayable
Yeah you had me at weakest 3d zelda. I'd probably say its tied with SS, but when you say its unplayable cause of "graphics" that's when I feel like this is just bait.

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Mine was this moment. youtube.com/watch?v=_5yEBL8IJVc
>That fucking pose at 1:00
Kino.

>Your acting like you actually care about discussion on the games but you really just want someone to blindly argue with you.
Yeah, I'm bored enough to want to argue, but I wanted to see if I'd get the usual Yea Forums replies or something more. Don't take the high road when you have to already be degenerate as fuck just to come onto this site.
>Midna
Decent, but not much of a selling point since her actual character is limited to a few cutscenes. I will agree that she is the peak for Zelda though.
>badass Link
>soundtrack was great
That's a part of the aesthetic.
OoT is not a bad game in itself but it's really limited compared to previous entries like ALttP with puzzles, dungeons, combat, etc. and did a mediocre job of translating all that to 3d.
BotW is an alright game too, but the dungeons are short and simplistic, the shrines are repetitive after 30 or so, and the actual sidequests aren't very interesting.
>Difficulty has barely anything to do with a game being good or bad
It's an ACTION/ADVENTURE GAME, having no stakes whatsoever of winning or losing dulls down all combat aspects by taking away any consequences.

>NES that high up

They're retards

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>> 1. The Wind Waker (99)
Hilarious. No one can have taste this bad on purpose, right?

All the gameboy zeldas are definitely easier. But they can also be beaten within a couple of hours. When judging them I always take into account the fact that they are made within the constraints of a gameboy cartridge.

Console games dont have that excuse, and 3d games are almost always tuned down difficulty from 2d in that theres more space per enemy ratio in most all 3d games. Like how it's that much easier for an enemy to hit you in a 3d mario than in a 2d mario.

Anyone else kind of getting tired of Ganon as a villain? I get that he's the main nemesis, but its nice to have OTHER villains every once and a while, and they've shown they can do that in other games (MM, Spirit tracks, Four swords/MC).
Hell, one thing I hated most about TP was that they had zant as a very good and intimidating villain with a perfectly good reason to exist and have his motivation that he does, and then he turns into a screaming chimp just so ganon can hijack the story.

Because WW was a technological masterpiece when it came out & was a 10/10 in almost every aspect. There was no other game that came close to capturing the sense of adventure as WW. The only objective flaw that actual gamers, Journos & Normies agreed on was the Triforce Shard quest. It's still remembered as a classic today, like MM, OOT & ALTTP. Because it innovated, and raised the level of standards for Graphics & Exploration in the series that are still used today. TP was a complete downgrade that only existed because of autistic fan backlash from westerners, unsurprisingly it was a complete flop in Japan & due to it being so horrible they had to go back to the light hearted cell shaded graphics style of WW for SS. But because it was too linear, they had to reboot it again this time using the NES Zelda fomula. If TP never existed & they had simply made Wind Waker 2 like they originally planned then Zelda wouldn't be such a disappointment like it is now. Instead of regressing, it would be progressing forward in most aspects

which one

>10/10 in almost every aspect.
>Slowly sailing all over the ocean, having to change the wind everytime you wanted to go in a different direction
>Just to fish up a crapton of triforce pieces
>10/10

Turning zant into a joke at the end felt like a slap in the face after building him up so much. Aethesetically the ganon fight at the end was satisfying but the way they shoehorned him into the story took away from the ending story wise.

It's geniunely a timeless masterpiece
Cope, take of the nostalgia goggles faggot. It's the worst 3D Zelda by far, you cannot refute this which is why the only argument against this that you will ever see is Buzzwords, meme images & people blindly saying "BBBUT WIND WAKER"

Sailing was amazing when it came out, the few complaints from autistic contrarians like yourself doesn't changed the fact that normies universally loved it.

Brah, they make clear midway through the game that Zant is not fucked right in head, and his change in character was pretty good given Dorf was literally inserted by Miyamoto who wanted him back.

Oh hey it’s WWcuck. post more about the journos you faggot.

I agree with you, nothing captured adventure like WW did when it came out. People can whine about the sailing but it just wasnt for them, the grand scale and feel of adventure was the direction zelda always benefitted from and this did it best.

>Sailing was amazing when it came out
>Nintendo literally gives you a sail to go faster because the old was slow as fuck
Lel

>agreeing with a shitposter
The absolute state of WWfags.

>actual gamers, Journos & Normies
Wind Waker confirmed the Reddit title.

>Dorf was literally inserted by Miyamoto who wanted him back.
I really hope miyamoto stops meddling in games. He was good once, but age has not been kind to him.

His impact on the paper mario series is proof of this.

>His impact on the paper mario series is proof of this.
He’s also the reason why we got Link’s Crossbow Training instead of TP2. Think on that.

Miyamoto wanting ganondorf back wasnt a problem to me, but they should have implemented that earlier into the games development, it's clear he was added in haphazardly into the plot instead of being written in from the start.

Link to the past did a much better job with their "minion being used by ganon" with Agahnim, who worked well as a plot device setting up the problems but then gave way to Ganon. TP should have handled the zant/ganon dynamic better than just a last minute plot twist, it just came off as lazy.

Twilight Princess is still my favorite 3D Zelda

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>than just a last minute plot twist
user, when does the trip to the Arbiters Ground take place? When do you meet the Sages and get the scoop on the Mirror?

>people actually like wind waker

shocker

Based and Midnapilled.

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>defending the Triforce hunt and the rushed aspect of the game
>it’s a 10/10 guys I swears
Those people have shit taste.

Ganon being in the game wasnt the twist, it was that zant was such a pissy weakling. If your gonna build a villain up and then do him in like that, at least give us that reveal earlier in the game so we can stop caring about him and focus on ganon for the remainder.

>2 scrapped dungeons
>incredibly obvious where they're supposed to be
>Nah, here's a fetch quest

> Bbbbut it's totally a bad game, even if nobody agrees with me
> Journalists, they don't matter
> Normies, they don't matter
> It doesn't matter if everyone else likes it, it's still shit because I said so
Cope

>journalists and normies say it’s the best thing ever since bread
>WHAT NO DONT LOOK AT THE TRIFORCE HUNT, THE FETCH QUESTS SUBPAR DUNGEONS AND OVERWORLD FILLED WITH THE SAME ENEMIES LISTEN TO THE JOURNALIST AND NORMIES WHO WILL THINK FOR YOU
Sheep. WW isn’t a bad game, but it’s definitely not the greatest Zelda.

Not really a fair comparison.

Cry more, there's a reason why everyone hates TP & likes WW, BOTW, OOT & MM. It's the worst in the series, there isn't a single thing that TP does right which is why it always is called the most overrated game in the series since blind fanboys like you defend it despite all of the glaring flaws

>everyone

>why everyone
There he goes again.

Oh we're doing this again

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zelda 1, zelda 2, zelda 3, zelda 4, zelda 5, zelda 6 etc

Cry more, there's a reason why everyone hates WW & likes TP, BOTW, OOT & MM. It's the worst in the series, there isn't a single thing that WW does right which is why it always is called the most overrated game in the series since blind fanboys like you defend it despite all of the glaring flaws.

> BBBBUT WIND WAKER!!!!
Cope

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Well yeah, TP is straight up a better designed game. WW might've been better had it not been rushed to completion but its dungeons are weak and the sailing isn't used to its fullest potential while TP's a near fuss-free decent Zelda. Didn't really try anything outstandingly new but it followed the playbook competently enough.

If TP is so good then why is it so hated among people outside this board?

It's not. Aside from maybe SS, no 3D Zelda is outright despised at large.

>making WWcucks seethe by being a finished, better game
TP is the gift that keeps on giving.

>SS anywhere but the bottom and WW above LA
This makes even more distrustful of game journalists and reviewers.

Why the fuck is Skyward Sword at #7? It should be at #20 or least be in the same catalogue as Wand of Gamelon.

SEETHING, TP was so horrible that it lowered standards for the series, SS got praise simply for not being a souless & poorly designed piece of shit without any redeeming value

TP got praise for good characters and plot and for people being tolerant of gimmicks at the time.

Nowadays its wiimote schtick is generally seen as rancid.

>TP living in your little head
RENT FREE

>Nowadays its wiimote schtick is generally seen as rancid.
This is why it should only be played on GC. WiiU was good, but I heard they fucked the bloom like WW.

>TP was so horrible that it lowered standards for the series

If anything, that was WW. Critical reception was warm but fan reception was pretty damn mixed. People like Toon Link more now than they did in the early 00s as it was a way dodgier prospect then, and in all honesty the little guy still has a spotty track record to this day.

>Nowadays its wiimote schtick is generally seen as rancid.

Good thing the Gamecube and WiiU versions exist, then.

HD's issue is less lighting and more HD textures looking a bit odd on 6th gen models and geometry. It's not game ruining but it is a bit jarring sometimes.

>in all honesty the little guy still has a spotty track record to this day.
>has five games to himself
>all of them revolving around gimmicks
Even the best one, MC, had the gimmick trade stones to bring the game down.

To be fair the Wii version really shouldnt be considered when judging TP. The Wii was just shit, and they even had to mirror the entire game just to port it from the gamecube. I still consider WW and TP gamecube games (and love both), cause the Wii controls would just lower its quality otherwise.

I think it's a bit much to call Wii outright shit when you dig deeper into its library, but it is true that TP Wii is something of a quick and dirty port.

Mistyped I meant SS.

You are not wrong, everyone here will disagree with us but TP is criminally, horribly underrated for reasons I can't even begin to understand

>everyone here

I've adored TP since release, my dude. Also, it's hardly underrated given both its critical and commercial performance.

>praise for good characters and plot
But SS botched that shit so fucking hard mate. It made the entire series a little bit shittier thanks to Fujibayashi’s shitty OCs.

Reminder that the only time Link ever lost a Popularity contest was in 2003, due to the fan backlash to Wind Waker. That alone should prove how divisive it was at the time

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This is either the most retarded thing I've ever read or some real low level bait

Stay mad Wand Wanker babby

>2 hour old post that no one responded to

hmm

>not liking groose