When did the definitive JRPG stop being Final Fantasy and start being Persona?

When SE decided that no one likes turn-based RPGs and forever changed FF.

Never because Dragon Quest exists.

Cope more, Western games have always been irrelevant outside Valve & Rockstar shit

when persona 2 came out and then square followed it a year later with the shitfest that was ffx.

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But P2 sucked so much worse than FFX.

>implying persona 2 is good

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Dragon Quest is better than both of them

>When did the definitive JRPG stop being Final Fantasy and start being Persona?

>jrpg
>japanese role-playing game
>game

>Persona
>"game"

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>Persona 2
>not the game that killed the franchise so hard that it took 6 years of waifu baiting to actually bring it back with P4G

>It was called Final Fantasy because it was the companies final chance before they went bankrupt.
And now they're creatively bankrupt, yet the series will probably continu forever.

Ironic, no?

No one outside of Japan gives a fuck about Dragon Quest. Even you only pretend to give a fuck about it so you can be contrarian about games people actually care about.

>relevance=quality
wow, what a retarded statement. JRPGfags are in need of some rope.

seething, ff9 was the last main final fantasy that wasn't shit. ffx is only remembered for tidus' laugh and for being the hallway simulator before ffxiii.

The meme that Persona 2 was good is one of the worst things to come out of this shithole.

If they were good games then they would be relevant, nobody cares about them because they are pieces of shit. For example was 110k people for example chose Final Fantasy over Diablo

When did JRPGs stop trying to be video games?
Did they ever try? I mean video games that were, you know, actual games always just get splintered off into sub-subgenres (e.g. ARPG, SRPG). JRPGs continue to promote style over substance, mechanically and narratively, and I genuinely do not understand the appeal. Then you have people who complain about the existence of tie-in media like animes or Kingslgaive- like what the fuck? That's what the entire genre is you dopes, how do you not want television/film media for your moviegame genre?

>persona 2
Who?

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>Cope more, Western games have always been irrelevant outside Valve & Rockstar shit
Must be why so many 'classic' Japanese games are carbon copies of western games

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Western RPGs have always been complete garbage that are limited to Niche boomer communities. JRPGs are the most sucessful genre behind Action adventure

What the fuck? RABBIT-MOOOOOOT!

>Cope more, Western games have always been irrelevant outside Valve & Rockstar shit
user, pretty much everything people associate with traditional jrpgs like FF, DQ and SMT was copied from western rpgs: the party-based combat system right down to specific spells and classes/jobs, the overworld, even the tradition of getting an airship, etc.

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> Autistic chart fag still spamming literal who western games that nobody cares about & crying how they are irrelevant to iconic JP games
Kill yourself or get a Trip so we can filter you

Don't forget Dragon Quest and Wizardry.
Except instead of strategy and preparation Japan replaced them with grinding and a cute aesthetic, because the latter is all nips care about. Brings them closer to understanding humans, I suppose.

>user, pretty much everything people associate with traditional jrpgs like FF, DQ and SMT was copied from western rpgs
you mean "improved."

X

Fucking retarded. So Avatar is a great movie and Call of Duty is one of the best video games by your dumbass logic. Kill yourself, retard. Kill your motherfucking self.

And improved on them in every way, nobody remembers any Western RPG made before 2000. Whereas FF6 is still circlejerked as the best RPG ever made by the entire internet

>you: japanese games are terrible, they are so much worse than their western counterparts
>also you: japanese games are carbon copies of their western counterparts, they have no originality

I don't' know how delusional you have to be to believe that JRPGs are more successful than WRPGs. I can understand liking one better than the other but by any objective measure the west has been more successful. Bethesda alone is more successful than probably all JRPGs to be released in the last decade.

Seething
> Call of Duty is one of the best games
MW1 & BO1 were when they came out, but they have aged like shit just like most Western games

When people's tastes became so shit that they preferred hip teens in a high school setting being better than an epic fantasy/sci-fi world.

Only Monolithsoft can save JRPGs now.

>And improved on them in every way, nobody remembers any Western RPG made before 2000. Whereas FF6 is still circlejerked as the best RPG ever made by the entire internet

>POPULAR GAME GOOD
>NICHE GAME BAD

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Yeah bro give me ten more of the same old recycled fantasy settings. Monolithsoft's games have all the worldbuilding of your average RPGmaker game.

Diablo

When you started HRT and became a polesmoker.

>When people's tastes became so shit that they preferred hip teens in a high school setting being better than an epic fantasy/sci-fi world.

>Only Monolithsoft can save JRPGs now.

Are you somehow implying Monolith isn't guilty of the same "hip teens" tropes that you dislike about other jrpgs?

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>Only Monolithsoft can save JRPGs now
Do you mean creating more embarassing gatchas like Xeno 2?

>but they have aged like shit
I havent played a CoD Game since BO2 but last I checked they all still play the fucking same since 2

I was replying to someone who claimed Western games was irrelevant.

That;s obviously false. Alone in the Dark is one of the most influential games ever made, having a significant influence on thousands of Japanese games.

Never played a persona game.

What should I try?

I don't have access to a ps4, and I cba setting up my ps2 (iirc there was some on that?)

Emulation is likely my best bet. Gimme your recs.

they're not particularly original but i do appreciate any series that stays out of the high school setting

>Posts one character out of an entire party
Yeah no.

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It's factually correct, no matter how much you cry about it
> Highest Grossing RPG franchises
> 1. Pokemon (92 Billion) (JRPG)
> 2. Final Fantasy (26 Billion) (JRPG)
> 3. Dungeon Fighter Online (12 Billion) (JRPG)
> 4. Dragon Quest (11 Billion) (JRPG)
> 5. World Of WarCraft (9.7 Billion) (WRPG)
Highest Rated RPGs
> 1. Chrono Trigger (358) (JRPG) (Square)
> 2. Final Fantasy VII (259) (JRPG) (Square)
> 3. Final Fantasy VI (256) (JRPG) (Square)
> 4. Castlevania: SOTN (245) (JRPG) (Konami)
> 5. Pokemon R/B/Y (230) (JRPG) (Nintendo)

I don't really keep up with WRPGs in general. The only one I incidentally played was NWN, and I hear that's supposed to be on the worse end, but fuck me if it had more going on than any Final Fantasy to date.
I don't really care about WRPGs or JRPGs or the blood feud between them, I just don't really understand the appeal of Squaresoft products in general. There's nothing to do, realistically. Your impact on the gameplay, and by gameplay I mean the combat because there's quite literally nothing else, is so minute it's a wonder they even bother with it anymore.
Same goes for Persona, I suppose, though. Something about the way games like this are designed never makes anything feel clever, and God forbid a Japanese writer ever read a fucking book that isn't a manga or the Bible.
I guess to summarize my main issue is the ratio of horribly written dialogue and storytelling prevalent in JRPGs versus the mind-numbing combat that never has enough strategy to warrant being labeled an SRPG. Like fuck, pick one thing and do it well, and then fix the other one.
Instead it's just thirty years of the same bullshit, and all that's gotten better are the graphics, which I guess in its defense is how the genre was birthed: emphasizing aesthetic over being a video game.

Soulless party members.

When Final Fantasy stopped even remotely trying to be anything like a jrpg

Final Fantasy started going downhill almost immediately after Enix bought out SquareSoft and Sakaguchi's departure. Pic related's data is a bit out of date, but it still gets the message of FF's downfall across.
The story of FF being Square's last possible game was debunked by Sakaguchi (FF creator) himself. He said Final Fantasy's original name was going to be "Fighting Fantasy," and that in reality any English word that started with F would work. Source: kotaku.com/debunking-the-final-fantasy-naming-myth-1707389344

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No, they were gonna call it Fighting Fantasy but they ran into copyright issues so they chose a different word, that's just a happy coincidence.

>Resorts to buzzwords
Can't discern soul from soulless if you don't have a soul yourself, buddy.

Too bad persona is on a dead and irrelevant console.

>retard uses Yea Forumsie lingo
Good job also completely skipping over Avatar. Not to mention CoD STILL is relevant and sells really well, so by your stupid logic, it's still great. I'm assuming mumble rap is also a fantastic genre of music as well. Die, you utter retard. Just die.

I think he meant literally.
Like nips have no souls, so anything they produce is soulless.
Coincidentally, the writing in Xeno 2 and every single non-character in that photo is soulless, figuratively, so it all works out I guess.

So Fuck Fantasy had a chance? Damn.

> Best Franchise Poll
> Round 1; Final Fantasy (107,000 Votes) > Diablo (17,000 Votes) (90,000 Difference)
> Round 2: Final Fantasy (100,574 Votes) > Mega Man (34,984 Votes) (65,586 Difference)
> Round 3: Final Fantasy (103, 552 Votes) > Resident Evil (32, 602 Votes) (70, 950 Difference)
> Round 3: Final Fantasy (83, 997 Votes) > Super Mario (73, 776 Votes) (10,221 Difference)
> Finale: Legend of Zelda (80,205 Votes) > Final Fantasy (77, 702 Votes) (3,123 Difference)
Imagine being so delusional that you think Diablo is remotely Relevant, let alone as well regarded as Final Fantasy

>Final Fantasy started going downhill almost immediately after Enix bought out SquareSoft and Sakaguchi's departure.
Bullshit. Most of the issues that plague FF now (prioritizing cinematic spectable over competent game design) have their roots as early as FF6. Starting with ff6, each new game in the series became more and more linear and more and more loaded with cutscenes.

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wew this post is so SEETHING you can fry an egg off of it.

When was this poll taken? No way in hell is FF better than RE or Mario in 2019. Hell FF was never better than Mario.

Final Fantasy Died at X. Persona began it's massive popularity with 3. Was basically a trade off with a weird few gap years in between

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>Imagine being so delusional that you think Diablo is remotely Relevant, let alone as well regarded as Final Fantasy
Diablo 3 has sold over 30 million copies, despite having atrocious production values, and despite being a relatively unknown series, having only had two, PC-exclusive titles

FFXV has struggled to reach 8 million copies sold, despite some of the best production values ever, despite one of the biggest and best-selling gaming series in the world with dozens of titles.

Cope harder

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2006, like i said earlier in this thread. It used to be highly regarded & is still loved by millions. But it's reputation died with FF13

Persona 3-5 are the ones most refer to when they think of Persona. And they're all very good games despite what some faggots may say, I can't really recommend one more than the other, so just pick one and have a good time.
Persona 1, 2 Innocent Sin and 2 Eternal Punishment are all very good games in their own right and have an arguably better story than the future games, however they're very different games from the norm and have a stupidly high random encounter rate and grinding is near required for most of them. And in 2IS's case, is way too easy. They're still worth checking out though.

Can't seethe without a soul, I imagine.
Nice to know I have one.

Why are people dissing Persona 2? What about Persona 1?

When Final Fantasy dropped turn based combat.

>Persona 1, 2 Innocent Sin and 2 Eternal Punishment are all very good games in their own right
lol
they suck, man

So where is Persona 3 in all this? It came after 4?

Cheers, guess i'll jus see which one i like the look of and whatever emulates best.

Cope about what? Final Fantasy has been shit since FFXI, but FFXIV still grossed 1.9 Billion dollars which is on average which is more then what any COD has made

Persona 3 FES then Persona 4

>Work at Square
>Have your projects constantly cut out from under you, mostly to fuel Final Fantasy
>Leave and form your own studio
>troubling times again
>get scraped up by Nintendo with Namco not wanting you anymore
>Make one of the most critically acclaimed JRPGs ever and reinvigorate the genre
>Make the greatest open world map ever
>Release your highest selling game of all time just recently
>Nintendo allowing you to hire like crazy, rely on you for help with creating the #1 most prestige videogaming franchise, Zelda
>tfw you're now the backbone of one of gaming's biggest titans

>And Square Eenix is shitting itself and Final Fantasy is considered a joke

He must feel great.

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>Cope about what? Final Fantasy has been shit since FFXI, but FFXIV still grossed 1.9 Billion dollars which is on average which is more then what any COD has made
How is that a relevant comparison? There have been dozens of CoD games released since XIV came out. Those games have made way more revenue than FFIV.

And is 1.9 billion revenue supposed to be impressive? That's what EA makes in ONE YEAR with just the annual rehash of Fifa.

So a bunch of waifus, looking literally a generic isekai looks good for you. Great, stay living in your delusional world.

>Why are people dissing Persona 2?
Its system is immensely retarded. So not only do you have to do demon negotiations, but you have to repeat them over and over again to get the cards you wanted for the Persona you wanted, which you'll then have to grind up to level 8 so you can trade it in for something that's quite probably worthless? Add to that the staggeringly high encounter rate, the generally subpar story and utilization of the rumour mechanic, the fact a story that could easily be told in one game is split into two for no goddamned reason except naked greed, and finally the fact it's super gay? Nah, fuck P2 with a rusty chainsaw.

>>Make one of the most critically acclaimed JRPGs ever and reinvigorate the genre

>shitty mmo combat and mmo-tier fetch quests
>reinvigorate the genre
And unfortunately, this shit's now creeping in other jrpgs as well.

Thanks for ruining the genre, asshole.

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Eh, I didn't mind it that much.

Enix didn't buy out Squaresoft, in fact the former was hesitant of even merging after Spirits Within and waited until the Square rebounded to proceed.
There is no meglomaniacal evil at Square-Enix that wasn't at Squaresoft, and stop lying to yourself in saying that Squaresoft wasn't already ass backwards by 2003 and ruining the genre. Now they've evolved and are ruining the industry.
I mean fuck, Spirits Within should be enough to tell you that Squaresoft was fucking stupid and prioritizing the wrong goddamn shit long before merging with Enix.
Squaresoft is the single worst company in the industry's history, and EA exists. Fuck yourself for promoting the very idea that this ass cancer ever produced or gave a shit about video games.

Wrong, keep crying Fortnite & GTA V are the only western games since WoW that have grossed over 2 billion in Revenue.

Sometime after FF12 but before FF13
>persona 4 launched in 2008/9
>ff13 launched in 2009
Like pottery

There's a reason why Nobody cares about Shit Vegas & Neir is a vaslty more acclaimed game then it will ever be

t. seething p3 babby

>compares annual revenue of western games to life-time revenue of japanese games that have existed for 10+ years
Holy shit, are you pathetic.

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To be fair, 30 years experience doesn't mean much when you've been doing it wrong for 29 of them.
It's the market that cemented these failures, for the record. Remember that in these threads and all those nostalgiabait threads longing for the "good ol' days"
These faggots who exist among us promoted this low effort shit. Square profited from it, but they would have just as easily shifted focus if pandering to the volunteer retard demographic didn't exist.

New Vegas alone has sold more than the entire Nier series, you little retard.

>wrpg quest design
tedious, needlessly convoluted mess written by sjws
>jrpg quest design
simple, to the point, respects the player's time

When Persona 5 came out
SMT has always been better than FF though

> FF14 literally came out in 2010
> Somehow claims i'm Crying, when it was a commercial failure at launch
Cope

>get a bunch of choices that don't matter at all in the end
wow thanks for showing me the light WRPGchad

>respects the player's time

>fetch quest
>respect the player's time

MUH Sales & Grossing, fine by this logic then Pokemon LGP is infinitely better Shit Vegas since it already grossed 600 Million dollars in less then a year

i'll take fetch quests over sjw political diatribes any day of the week.

>>respects the player's time for letting them not have any input in the game and instead being sidelined into the worst fucking writing since Dan Brown

So you're backtracking. Nice.

>i'll take fetch quests over sjw political diatribes any day of the week.
Nier had Kaine, a literal strong indepedent tranny who you are forced to fall in love with,

Meanwhile, New Vegas lets you casually murder every npc in the game, including any sjw types that annoy you.

Go back to resetera, you fucking piece of SJW shit.

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Neat a JRPG thread!
>it's just wrpg faggots being butthurt
never mind

i'll take the one that isn't praised by discord trannies. give me nier all day.

I'm debating the
>nobody cares
part, you illiterate fuck. Quality is a different argument. More people care about Fallout than Nier, no question.

>implying trannies don't love animu games
LOL

> Nier has a 90 + on MetaCritic
> New Vegas is so shit that it couldn't even get a 85
> BBBUT MORE PEOPLE CARE ABOUT NEW VEGAS
Cope

FF has been dead since FF10 but mostly FF13, where incoherent story, annoying characters, okayish music, and linearity were at full peak and of course this game is the most MOST hated. FF10 is only being somewhat saved by having the most unique setting in the series
but FF13 and Versus being scrapped into 15 and still being incomplete is what really killed the mainline games, dont know about shit like the MMO or other side shit like WoFF, Type-0 or Chocobos whatever probably carrying its sales. No reason to go back to High Fantasy either cause of DQ. Persona on the other hand is rather generic in comparison being Highschool shenanigans shit that almost every nip game has these days but its just a more simple stylish version of SMT that got popular at the right time

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in reality, 2b's ass alone filters out all the plebs from resetera.

they don't. that's why they keep trying to get them censored or banned.
meanwhile, wrpgs are written with people who have danger hair, problem glasses, and unironically list their pronouns.

>Ignoring the argument about the quest design, regardless of what flavor of the month its used by, in favor of talking about off-topic shit
It was great trying to discuss video
games with you. You're worse than "discord trannies", you're a fucking poser. Probably didn't even play nier or automata, just started ass threads on /gif/ for worst girl 2B or some shit.
Sort yourself out. You're more conflicted and confused than an actual transvestite, fuck.

>moving the goalposts because your retarded statement got proved wrong
Pretty sure you're the one coping. I'm going off what you originally said. Can't just switch gears like that, weeb.

Ff7 was a masterpiece bitch

you've never actually tried to discuss video games with anyone. you're here to discuss your autistic charts with cherrypicked examples of jrpgs you've never played. why would anyone bother having a serious discussion with you?

When I, (god), decided Atlus is just better at combat, which they are

What would i have to cope about exactly, this was originally a Persona vs FF thread until assmad WRPG incel neckbeards came in crying about how their irrelevant games don't get any attention & are overlooked by JRPGs

Why does Yea Forums hate western moviegames but love Eastern moviegames?

>What would i have to cope about exactly, this was originally a Persona vs FF thread until assmad WRPG incel neckbeards came in crying about how their irrelevant games don't get any attention & are overlooked by JRPGs
If you had actually followed the discussion, you know that it was those jrpg fans who first started shitting on wrpgs.

I also visit GameFAQs.

Western games are shit & Western Journos and their Tranny shit are ruining all forms of Media

why do westaboos keep pretending that japan's actual games are really "movie games"? you do know that "no u" isn't an argument, right?

>Persona
>Actual Game
LOL

> BBBUT DND GARBAGE THAT NOBODY CARES ABOUT
Cope more

yes, it's a game. wrpgs are "ORANGE MAN BAD, IT WAS HER TURN": the movie.

Why are people shitting on FFX? It was a great game

Seething Western fags, nothing more

FF got lost because of the period of awful mismanagement at the company, specifically by turning their back on key developers, lack of specific direction for the series, and complete refusal to adapt to modern development style until it was too late.

The dethroning of the series happened because of two games: FFXII and XIII.
XII, while arguably a great game, was simply too different from the highly acclaimed X, it just didn't live up as a follow up and degraded the brand's identity heavily.
Then with XIII, Square had the chance to define FF for the new console gen, establishing it once again as at the forefront of graphics and storytelling, but between the absolute disaster that was its development and its questionable design and script decisions, it completely failed and left the series feeling like a second tier game that couldn't compete with western games like Bioshock, the Elder Scrolls, Fallout, etc.
And honestly, the disaster that was XIII/Crystal Tools' development damaged the entire company in ways it's still reeling from.

After XIII, it had been a decade since FF was prestigious. A lot of gamers weren't even old enough to know what the series once represented. Because of XII and XIII, no one even knew what FF was supposed to be anymore.

XV under Tabata was when the series finally adopted modern development style, and really tried to follow western design trends and match up with the most prestigious games, but they just totally failed at it and made the situation even worse.
It has now been 20 years since we had an FF game that was considered a defining game of its era, 20 years since we had an FF game that people could look at and instantly recognize as an FF game just from how it looked and played.
There's now an entire generation of gamers who have no idea what FF really is or the clout it once held, not to mention the millions of people who have gotten into gaming within the last two generations.

1/2

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>There's now an entire generation of gamers who have no idea what FF really is or the clout it once held
What clout? Final Fantasy was basically the Call of Duty of its time, favoring cinematic spectacle over any actual effort put into game design

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2/2

I'm not one of those people who think FF needs to adhere to the SNES style or anything, but the series needs to have a definitive identity that feels like an evolution of those games.

That's why Persona is so successful now. Since P3 every game has been recognizeable as a Persona game, building upon and evolving from the previous one. People know what Persona is.

Sorry for the tower of text that no one will read, but I finished XV for the first time the other day and I've been wanting to get this rant out.

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> Left = Literal who pieces of shit that nobody cares about
> Right = Most iconic Franchise ever behind Zelda, Mario & Pokemon, loved by Billions
Cope more, WRPGs will never be relevant

>I'm not one of those people who think FF needs to adhere to the SNES style or anything, but the series needs to have a definitive identity that feels like an evolution of those games.
DQ has "an identity" and all it's led to is its games feeling samey and boring.

>Cope more, WRPGs will never be relevant

eurogamer.net/articles/2017-03-03-nier-automata-began-life-as-a-mobile-game
>In terms of influences on Platinum, the original Nier is an obvious one, though the team did look westward - if only for a short time. "We were playing different RPGs back then," says Taura. "When all the team members got together we'd talk about them. When we were making the game, The Witcher 3 came out. The sub-quest elements were so great, it was kind of demoralising, so we just stopped playing the game...

COPE

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Nier automata was a small team platinum plus SE as publisher.

And Fallout new vegas build on top Fallout 3 as somekind mod.

I love the Final Fantasy series, but it encountered a series of unfortunate events of such a huge magnitude that it fell really far behind in relevance.

Up until FF13, Final Fantasy managed to release critically acclaimed titles for each of the consoles it was on, maintaining its relevance between generations. FF11 was a little hiccup, mainly due to the fact that early MMOs were very hit-or-miss and WoW came through 2 years later and took the MMO scene by storm. However, once the PS3 was released, Square Enix really flunked its opportunity to stay relevant with FF13's poor reception. This hurt Final Fantasy's relevance BADLY, especially when compared to the blockbuster reception of FFX and FFXII on the PS2. Follow that with a series of shortsighted spinoffs connected to FF13, and the PS3's lifespan saw a rapid decline in Final Fantasy relevance. Couple that with FF14's GOD AWFUL release state, and all of the goodwill built up over the years just evaporated.

However, Final Fantasy did experience a boost in relevance after the rebirth of FF14. It's truly a great MMO now, and managed to remain one of the better MMOs even during the MMO boom. FF15 was decently good, but it lost the opportunity to reclaim its relevance due to development problems. Square Enix has finally decided to take the L and drop Final Fantasy out of the console limelight, taking their time to make sure their comeback has no problems.

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its the most divisive of the mainline, people either think its shit and killed the series while others think its a masterpiece and the best, or a in between. I didnt like it but its better than the literal hallway simulator that is FF13 also everyone forgets 12 exists not that its bad imo but just forgettable

>Waiting FF7 Remake

ffx is also a linear hallway simulator.

When Persona 4 released while the PS3 had no games on a system people actually cared about and then FFXIII turned out to be a shitty tech demo, so newfags went back to 3/FES and didn't have to worry about playing a slightly shittier game until nearly a decade later while FF managed to shove out more mediocre games every two years or so

Yea Forums memed XII all the time so it can't have been before that

Imagine if FFXVI was good and it saves the series

thats apart of why its divisive, unlike 13 it had shit to do in the hallways with the game also dropping stuff about its world which was more unique than generic future setting but the problem was it still being really linear

try playing alone in the dark nowadays instead of resident evil 1 and let me know what the better game is, thanks.

alone in the dark has terrible execution that has not aged well.

I didn't say it had to slavishly adhere to tradition. Again, look at Persona. Each game feels different and more modern compared to the previous, but is also distinctly Persona. When you play Persona you have a calender/time management mechanic, you have demon fusing, you have the turn based battle system, but it always feels updated from the one before it, and you have a different visual style and story theme.
Same with pretty much every other major franchise. GTA, Mario, Elder Scrolls, each game is distinct from the last but still feels like an evolution of the previous one.

Final Fantasy has shifted radically with every game since XII to the point they're unrecognizable as Final Fantasy if not for the fact they share enemies. I know reinventing the setting is what the series is known for, but they've become so different in tone and style that it's now detrimental.

>has not aged well.
It has the exact same tank controls as RE, so how can it have aged worse? If anything,hold ups better in some ways, since camera angles in Alone are more zoomed out and allow you to get a better bearing on your environments than in RE. Also, unlike RE, no loading screens: you can open doors and seamlessly enter other rooms.

On the other hand, Atlus has been the epitome of patience with the development of Persona 5. Persona 4 rose from a cult classic into serious relevance, and somehow managed to maintain that despite a large amount of spin-offs that capitalized on its popularity. The effort that goes into the visual and audio fidelity of the Persona series has helped it greatly in keeping a strong foothold in the RPG scene for a long time. Instead of feeling pressured into updating their main series however, Atlus took such a long time in releasing Persona 5 that they skipped the PS3 entirely! However, the result was spectacular. Atlus doubled down on the aspect of Persona that really kept people's attention, its stunning art and music direction. As well as being a high quality game in many aspect, at that point in time it was a stark contrast to the development timeline of Final Fantasy 15, which had a much more critical audience after the many hiccups in its development. While there was no doubt that Persona 5 was worth the extra 4 YEARS in development, FF15 wore the complications in development rather poorly, and the comparison made it rather clear that between Final Fantasy and Persona, Persona has clearly overtaken Final Fantasy. However, Square Enix's complete silence on Final Fantasy 7 Remake may be a sign that they've taken a leaf from Atlus's book, and are putting their noses to the grindstone to blow people out of the water with FF7R's release...

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At least they made world of final fantasy for fans of the older games

I made the logo myself, lol

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what's weird is that saga has reinvented itself even more with each new installment than ff has, but unlimited saga is still the only disastrous result when they've done it. maybe it's time for square to have kawazu direct a mainline ff game again.

Why is she killing the only other persona game with a femc

Also persona 3, 4 and 5 reference 2 and 1 quite a bit.

When Persona started letting you date girls.

When XIII and XV happened

>40+ hours of cutscenes
Here's the part your leaving out, all of it's integral to gameplay and there's 80+ more hours of actual gameplay. I fail to see the problem.

>When did the definitive JRPG stop being Final Fantasy
I would say maybe shortly after FF13, or maybe the original launch of FFXIV.(ARR is fucking awesome, but that original launch was fucking awful.)
>and start being Persona?
Either with the release of Persona 4 Golden or Persona 5.

>Here's the part your leaving out, all of it's integral to gameplay
How so? 99.9% of P5's dialogue is completely non-interactive. It has a Fallout4-tier dialogue system, that's how bad it is.

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jrpg is gay anyway who cares?

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When Square merged with Enix.
Also Chrono series is king of jRPG.

yeah, how can persona even compete with the amazing dialogue systems of wrpgs?

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Persona is set in the real world and talks about real issues, to fault even since some parts of its stories are very Japanese-centric. But that's what make these games feel authentic and sincere, they talk about stuff the devs actually experienced
Final Fantasy is completly devoid of any meaning or message, it's a bunch of clichés and the characters are especially not relatable
Anyone can relate to Joker struggling to find a seat in an overcrowded train, while noone can look at four pretty boys wearing Louboutin shoes and driving an Audi through a vaguely fantasy world and not thinking that it's ridiculous
Final Fantasy should go back to try telling something actually interesting before showcasing shiny new tech that becomes obsolete at the very moment it releases

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I wholly agree with everything you posted user

>when Anthem does it it's widely mocked and criticized for it
>when Persona 5 does it it's praised for it
How does that help your argument?

also
>Anthem
>RPG

>Persona is set in the real world and talks about real issues
Not really. Persona games don't even let you explore the intrigue of an urban fantasy setting, for the gameplay they teleport you to another dimension that is literally a monster-filled maze, and stories are god-killing shenanigans. Despite taking place in modern times, characters use medieval weaponry, which civilians inexplicably posses and willing to sell to a bunch of teenagers. You heal deadly injuries with candy. Despite the occult theme, the spells and abilities are the most cookie cutter elemental JRPG spells possible. There's no effort whatsoever made to create a believable urban fantasy setting that reconciles the fantastical with the mundane. The game feels schizophrenic in tone, jumping back and forth between Japanese teenage highschool drama and high fantasy dungeon crawler. It's like the developers wanted to create an urban fantasy setting, but were too lazy to flesh out such a setting and just went with standard high fantasy tropes.

Compare that to something like Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines, which utilizes its modern-day setting in every aspect of its gameplay and narrative. For example, since you're a vampire healing is done by feeding on enemies or NPC's or by consuming blood bags, which you can get by having an employee at the local hospital smuggle them out for you. The weapons you use aren't medieval, but modern ones like firearms and improvised tools like tire irons and baseball bats, and the people who sell them to you are criminal fencers. Instead of generic elemental spells, you hack computers and use vampiric disciplines such as mental domination or a mist form which renders you invisible. The game takes place in urban locales, not some abstract dimension, and NPC's will panic and alert the cops if you reveal your vampiric nature in public, and being careless will mae vampire hunters come after you. That's how you translate urban fantasy to a video game.

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I really just want FFXVI to be gigantic budget bravely default.
Get Yoshida on art, maybe set it in ivalice, keep all the job outfits from FFXIV and either have the combat be turn based with a gimmick or actual responsive action combat with large movesets for every job.

Holy shit. You just BTFO Personafags.

seething. anthem's dialogue system is par for the course of wrpgs.

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>No one outside of Japan gives a fuck about Dragon Quest
And yet more people buy it than Persona in the west.

>When did the definitive JRPG stop being Final Fantasy
I would say maybe shortly after FF13, or maybe the original launch of FFXIV.(ARR is fucking awesome, but that original launch was fucking awful.)
>and start being Persona?
Either with the release of Persona 4 Golden or Persona 5.

>and there's 80+ more hours of actual gameplay
You're joking right?
Most of Persona's gameplay after 2 is contained in the social links aka more cutscenes. The dungeons are always extremely short.

Final Fantasy XIII and Persona 4, so around 2009.

Persona isn´t trying to mix Japanese highschool drama with high fantasy dungeon crawling. The appeal of the series is the duality between the two. I don´t think it´s fair to criticize it for not doing something it´s not trying to do.

>responding to pasta

>The appeal of the series is the duality between the two.
And yet it weighs too heavily on the former.

>the state of most long running JRPGs now
What went wrong

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Amazing how you always change the subject after one sentence

Over saturation

smt is better