WoW, XIV, GW2, BDO or pretty much any current MMOs
>they are ridiculously easy and braindead outside of a handful of lategame instances >you get way too much money and resources in general, you have to do no meaningful decision making or resources management whatsoever outside of maybe very lategame
imagine if a new souls game came out, it would get 5/10 scores everywhere because everyone would point out these flaws with the games. Why do MMOs get a free pass for this, both from critics and users?
Because friendless nerds get addicted to the social exposure MMOs provide them
Ryder Cook
I just want a non-braindead mmo rpg
why is this shit so much to ask for
Levi Collins
Because they are MMO that's why free pass. Bad gameplay is a constraint of the genre, to allow massive connectivity gameplay elements need to be dumbed down or else the game doesn't work properly.
Jason Rivera
Because $$$ you dope, high accessibility + base-game purchase, expansion and monthly-subscription = lods of emone FFXIV is the closest you'll get to an even difficulty curve in a modern MMO. You're wanting the complexity and depth of a rather well-made singleplayer game out of shit-smeared MMOs
Luis Morris
complete bullshit, these are all plain balance choices that have nothing to do with connectivity. Older MMOs weren't this braindead either
Liam Butler
Older MMOs were just as braindead but were a lot slower-paced and had an extremely higher focus on community, ie old Runescape or Maplestory.
Jayden Cruz
Easy social interaction combined with an artificial sense of progression from the daily grind. They aren't supposed to be challenging or fun, they just scratch the itch which is normally taken care of by having friends or a job. Some people just really like to keep scratching there, which is why they get so sucked into these games. MMOs often use basic human psychology to bait these people into becoming addicted. That's why progression is fast early on but quickly has diminishing returns, and why acquiring resources is often limited by a timer. Keep them coming back every day even when they don't want to play, because if they don't it'll waste that mining refresh.
Samuel Martin
They're cashgrab, the whole ability of spending money each fucking months just to keep playing the fucking game is where they try hard to get you to stay
Henry Johnson
The problems with MMOs is that the bubble grew too large too fast and lost sight of what really mattered to the genre. MMOs were firstly made to be living experiences and social games based on the interaction of multiple groups all coexisting and competing against each other. Skip 10 years and mmos are about doing quests alone, grinding dungeons in your guild, and nothing else. The strength of the genre has always been socialization on a mass scale but that doesn't make money nor is a novelty to companies looking for massive earnings. Despite the fact that we are more connected in the modern world we've also made it easier to ignore people on a mass scale. This is why mmos suck now.
Julian Ward
>Older MMOs were just as braindead again, complete bullshit
just because older mmos didn't have a timing/spacing based combat either, the fact that you were sparse on money, and enemies were tougher meant that you constantly had to make meaningful choices and resources management if you wanted to play efficiently
Henry Young
Mmos died, gramps. What are you even talking about?
Henry Myers
The overwhelming majority of MMOs are designed to be skinnerboxes. Gameplay was never at the forefront of development.
Name a single MMORPG that has interesting gameplay.
Jeremiah Thompson
Even the shittiest MMOs aren't actually that badly designed, you're just too stupid to understand why they're designed the way they are.
Lucas Collins
And often your resource-management and strategizing amounted to a much slower version of current MMO combat and "don't wander around without a party, retard". If your game had an auction-house then being sparse on money didn't matter all that much until you wanted to buy things from other players.
Justin Edwards
The higher focus on community is what made them not braindead and thus more enjoyable and long lasting. Just think about this for a moment CoH, Wildstar, Tabula Rasa, and many other wow clones have fucking died yet Runescape, Maplestory, and Everquest still manage to stay alive in some form
Parker Fisher
Blade & Soul
Isaac Hughes
Bullshit >Team cranks up the skinner box mechanics >People bitch and leave >Boss asks why the fuck everyone's leaving >Just explain MMOs are too complicated an ecosystem to please everyone >Keep your job. Also because nepotism hire
>FFXIV >not casualized garbage that doesnt teach you the game at all The curve is non-existent in that game user, most players are trash that only get by due to how braindead most content is.
Hudson Thompson
Post Elins.
Jordan Garcia
Tera has the best combat of any mmo, and I'd argue the best/ most fun dungeons of any mmo.
Jeremiah Scott
>And often your resource-management and strategizing amounted to a much slower version of current MMO combat except it wasn't the same, because you could actually die there, had to use resources, instead of just spamming your skills while running around. You had to be careful who you want to attack or if you need better stuff or another player to kill someone. you had to decide what you spend your money on, what you spend your resources o/how you use them. When you went out for a longer questing you had to decide how you go out, etc. there was a bunch of little shit that kept the gameplay engaging and not braindead, and this was all because the enemies were tougher and the resources were more sparse.
Josiah Gray
Case in point, you completely missed why BfA failed when Legion was a success despite also cranking up the skinner box mechanics. It's cherry picking at the failures and not even doing a good job at it. The reality is that most of the shit people complain about that have become MMO standards exist for practical reasons. MMOs rarely fail due to gameplay issues when you examine them by release, the formula is too tight for that, it's almost always a problem in the publisher like p2w costs or the content like no patches. The ones that do fail due to gameplay are almost always games that make the mistakes OP is asking to make.
Anthony Watson
Legion was not a success. It has proven decline. It was a mechanical shitshow between buildables on Broken Shore, RNG Legendaries, Argus, and Suramar being a clusterfuck of progression ideas.
Noah Allen
>t-this is just the best design, MMOs can't get better than this, bullshit even when you just look at when MMOs were the most popular, and when they started to lose popularity, it was exactly when WoW started to adapt this braindead game design with Wotlk/Cata, where 99% of the game is thrown out of the window, only the very late game matters, the rest of the game is just a braindead speedrun till you get there
Lucas Bell
>not casualized garbage that doesn't teach you the game at all Oh come the fuck on, there are tutorial features that award you with Brand New gear and you're intended to trial-and-error through new content.
Michael White
Legion was very successful. It sold poorly at the beginning because it followed up a garbage expansion then picked up as it ran on its own merits and carried BfA into a huge launch even though everyone hates BfA. Shit or not it's the most positive reception an expansion had gotten since Wrath and the only time subs were up half way through compared to the previous expansion.
Angel Garcia
> It sold poorly at the beginning because it followed up a garbage expansion bullshit, it literally sold better than WoD at the beginning, and declined more than WoD at the end
Older MMos were even more braindead. In the PvE department. But they were saved by the fact that that PvE and PvP weren't two very seprate things and PvP could result from any PvE spot encounter or over any PvE related activity.
Lincoln Peterson
Because MMOs are chatrooms with gameplay tacked on.
Christian Wilson
I love the idea of MMOs but every single one has such a piece of shit gameplay, just make something with M&B/chivalry combat but as a fantasy MMO, wherever a play an MMO I feel like I am playing a fucking piano
Michael Cook
Most of older MMO "decision making" was based on how much you grinded. Enemies weren't tougher because they had advanced strategy or mechanical difficult, but because you just didn't have enough lvl to beat them which meant you'd just get outdps'd by them
All modern MMOs did was reduce how much of a cockblock numerical stats are
Nathan Hall
look at the whole game experience, not just "after I click on an enemy I have more buttons to press these days, than I had back then"
Tight money and resources management, constant need for decision making, risky decisions is what made doing PvE content not braindead compared to today's mmos. These things all non-directly connected to your efficiency in combat.
Brayden Jackson
>it's only grinding and level
let's just look at vanilla wow for example you earned a specific amount of money through leveling, you had to decide what you want to spend that money on (learning skills, leveling professions, buying better equipment /upgrading your equipment, buying consumables, etc.). You couldn't do all of that, you had to decide what you want to do if you wanted to play efficiently (that is the keyword). Of course you could stop to just grind money for hours instead of using your braind, but then you were already not playing efficiently, and grinding was your punishment for it.
not saying vanilla wow is the pinacle of what mmos can be, since the game was mostly full of shitty quests like "collect 40 boar tusk", or even running out of quests when leveling, but this have nothing to do with the game design I've mentioned
