If Smash Melee got one or two years more of development time instead of being rushed for the Gamecube's launch window...

Ganon probably would have had an actual moveset of his own instead of being a falcon clone.

They knew wavedashing was a thing but they obviously didn't think it was important, once they realized it was ridiculously powerful and not just an "oh you can do that" thing they took it out but that's not something that would have been caught in development anyway.

Did he also say K Rool and Geno were considered for Melee?

These characters would probably be in:
>Wario
>Dedede
>Diddy Kong
>Snake (Kojimbo gave a call to Sakurai mid-development)

Sukapon

Who cares?

Wind Waker for starters.

You apparently, thanks for the bump.

No I don't.

Why do you morons never accept that accidents can be benefits?

I'm of the opinion that free movement is less interesting than movement options with pronounced benefits and disadvantages.

You're going to have to elaborate on that, because I'm of the opinion that giving the player more and better options is ALWAYS better than arbitrarily weighing them down. Better for playing, and definitely better for spectating.

>Arbitrarily

It's not arbitrary. Ex: You can't shield out of a dash in Ultimate, which gives you a reason to walk toward the opponent instead of dashing if they are shitting projectiles. Dash dancing has a semi-fixed distance to make it less powerful, but you will disagree and say "anything that makes player slower=bad" so there's nowhere discussion can go.

>less options is good
nusmash players are braindead

Less raw number of options but the options you do have are more meaningful in application.

Falco, Young Link, Doc Mario, and Pichu, Ganondorf and Roy are all gone

Wario and Dedede would most likely be in as that's what Sakurai said were the next two characters he was planning on working on. Ganondorf unfortunately doesn't get added in Melee but shows up in Brawl instead as an actual character and not a slower and heavier Falcon

Thats just not true. How could less = more meaningful? This is shit brawl retards would say back in the day to defend their terrible game sounds like your doing the same.

>Dash dancing in melee
Free, no real drawbacks.

>Dash dancing in ultimate
Makes you vulnerable to projectiles since you can't shield in startup frames of a dash.

>Shorthop in melee
Objectively superior to full jump aerial

>Shorthop in Ultimate
Less damage than a full hop aerial but faster to execute.

Yeah you do, thanks for the bump again. Cheers user.

You know the short hop aerial damage in ultimate is only if you do the short cut. Fucking retard.

>Dash dancing in melee
>>Free, no real drawbacks.
>>Shorthop in melee
>Objectively superior to full jump aerial
ahh so you dont know what your talking about what a surprise.

No I don't.

So uh what does dash dancing make you more vulnerable to in melee? You can jump out of it, shield out of it, attack out of it. Or another thought experiment, for what competitive reason would you walk toward an opponent rather than run?

Walk up slowly and down smash.

Reasons besides striking terror into the hearts of your enemies.

You can get hit out of a dash dance dude it doesnt make you invincible. You cant do a tilt or smash out of a run without pivoting so sometimes you walk instead since you can tilt and smash out of a walk. Any other stupid ass questions?

So mind games isn't a competitive reason?

>You can get hit

You can get hit NOT dash dancing too that's not a disadvantage. Also can't you do smashes out of a run with C stick or is that only upsmash? Haven't played melee in a while.

Not in regards to it being a movement option, otherwise we could argue the newer smash games have better mind games because characters have more taunts.

But it isnt always an advantage either. You dont want to dash dance all the time. Only upsmash and im not sure if its all characters or not.

You can't do any smash attacks out of dash.
That was Brawl retard.

I don't think so but Snake would probably be in.

>free, no real drawbacks
*laughs in Falcon kneeing your dashback*

He would have also added Snake too

>wavedashing
>ridiculously powerful
Stop this meme. It just shows you don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s a useful movement tool and important to learn but it’s not a theoretically gamebreaking thing except at the absolutely tippy toppest level of play. Casuals and state players are not infinite waveshining each other back and forth across the stage.

This is beside the fact that in no fucking world did Sakurai and the team intend there to be a decades-long competitive scene, they didn’t give a shit about some theoretical 20XX gamebreaking techniques.

it's only up smash that works out of dash, and also you need to jump cancel it by either flicking the left stick and the c stick up at the same time, or just pressing up on the left stick and the A button
the viability of this tech is really limited too because there are only a few characters that can do run up up smash in neutral (fox/pikachu)

>more fleshed out adventure mode
Funny hearing that after seeing the single player they slapped together for SSBU

Even at top level wavedashing isn't broken. Melee's flaws comes more from character balance than the actual mechanics. Pretty much every top 7 character has a 7-3 MU vs characters below top 12 ie ganon mario the links etc

Ganon would be unique
Wario would be in
Dedede likely forced in
Gameplay likely more casualized.

That kinda depends there are some niche match ups that are favourable in the lower characters.

a lot more characters, maybe even sanic and snack, final smashes, idk

If your talking young link vs jiggs peach its true, but his matchups vs the other 5 characters in that tier are even worse than his adult self.

Lol exactly, they're fucking retarded and even have trouble getting into elite in Ultimate. There's no point in arguing with them, apparently higher skillcap and more fluid movement = bad

jc upsmash

You can up smash or up-B out of a dash.
You can also cancel a dash by crouching and do almost any ground move instantly.

wario would have a kino wario land inspired moveset

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Also for you retards complaining about wavedashing, this is me wavedashing with Ridley. It's more laggy than melee, but you can wavedash back forward smash for a good mixup

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>You can get hit NOT dash dancing too that's not a disadvantage
Yes it is. Also you're dash dance involves you not facing the opponent on the backdash which presents a disadvantage to many characters. Furthermore it can be predictable and easily punished. You can overshoot an aerial and hit them if they rely too much on it. This makes it important to wavedash and run for neutral spacing as well. Also in a neutral scenario wavedashing is much more important for characters with a bad dashdance like sheik, ice climbers, luigi (partially), samus, etc. Also against projectile heavy characters like falco unless you 100% powershield everything (which doesn't happen) you cannot be dash dancing the whole time.

Walking is better for spacing ground moves.

you're retarded if you think this is even half as useful as actual wavedashing

...That's why I said it's laggier than melee? It still provides a decent mixup and you can waveland easily. Just do normal melee wavedashing but use Z instead of L or R

...

>Why would you walk if you can dash?
That's like asking why would I short hop when I can full hop.
If someone is knocked down on a platform or a corner I'm not going to run towards them, I'm going to walk and chase their get up options.

It is laggy and does nothing but provide a situational mixup. And as far as I know only a small amount of characters such as heavies like ridley can use it. It misses the point of why wavedashing was good because it wasn't intended to be in ultimate.

A mix up to what?
What's the 50-50?

Yeah dude I'm aware, a lot of people don't even know it's an option

because it's practically useless

I know lmao not sure why you're trying to argue

>this entire thread

Jesus competitive Smash was a mistake

Why can’t you guys just treat this series like it was developed to be? A silly party game you play with your friends?

>Not getting fucked up and playing high level melee or 64 with your buddies.

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Yes how dare people enjoy things.

>provides a decent mixup
>because it's practically useless
>I know lmao
kek are you retarded?

Pichu would still get in as the first new-generation shillmon.

Somehow youre only the 2nd dumbest poster in this thread.

Why do people think wavedashing is some magical automatic win skill in the game?

Because they don't understand it.
Most smash players don't have never played any other fighting games.
They don't even know what a mix up is.

one time I noticed that I started to get good at something and immediately stopped doing that thing because I don't want anyone to think that I enjoy stuff.

To be fair Yea Forums understands nothing about fighting games.
I saw somebody yesterday talking about how SFV has no oki because wake up DP is a thing.

We wouldn't have been stuck with Ganondorf being Captain Falcon with leg shackles for the rest of the series.

I don't even think Yea Forums plays video games,
They just like to talk shit.

That just reminds me of that one Sagat vs. Kolin video where, after a knockdown, the Sagat would immediately do an EX Tiger Uppercut and get nailed with Kolin's counter. Every single time for three times in a row until the Sagat died. Funniest shit ever.

The no mix up mix up is truly the strongest.

A few years later would mean Gen 3 and Hoenn would get shilled. though I can't think what hoenn-mon would be put in, there was really no single break-out Hoenn Pokemon and the legendaries are all fairly beastial or otherwise hard to work into a smash moveset or just plain not appealing, like the Regis. Maybe Deoxys or Blaziken, though in the case of the former I can see people bitching over him getting in before Charizard.

Holy shit nigger you got btfo.

The game wouldn't get it's dick sucked because it would actually be a complete and functional game.

>making the game more boring is the endgoal of a 'complete and functional' game

All of these would be in

Sukapon got fucking robbed despite being the number one "Other" pick

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>having a roster with more than three viable characters is 'boring'

The absolute state of smelees

It's interesting how anti melee posters always say shit like this.

characters in melee top 8 genesis: 8
characters in smush top 8 genesis: 11
Wow

>muh gator faggot
Nostaliga faggots should KYS asap. No one gives two shits or knows about some faggot gator from 1935 when your parents weren't divorced.

Literally should have never got in smash. Bayonetta got in because she was relevant and a recent game release, not some literal who green shit.

>inb4 muh rob muh pacman muh duck hunt
Icon characters of different eras or mascot characters. No one gives two shits about literal who the gator

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you can't do tilts or down-b out of dash, and you can only dash in one direction for a certain amount of time
pivot tilts exist but they're inconsistent even for great players

stop posting this you autistic fucking child. go back to discord.

>To be fair Yea Forums understands nothing about games.
Fix'd. Why the fuck do you chucklefucks try making genuine threads on Yea Forums for? just let the zoomers shitpost Melee like usual so they can have their daily cope ffs.

>gatorfag
>calling others autistic children

>Shortcut shorthop aerial deals less damage
Wait what

all shorthop aerials in ultimate do less damage, not just shortcut ones. It's mentioned in one of the tips

Developer intention is worthless to think about. You will have a lot more fun with vidya if you realize this.

It's only the short cut ones.

>You can also cancel a dash by crouching

So all these people saying "nuh uh dashing has a downside" are full of shit because everyone just dash crouch cancels their smash attacks. Thought I was going crazy because I was almost certain you can smash attack out of a dash, no shit you can't literally hold dash and then immediately smash because the controls don't work that way but pretending there's some ridiculous barrier when you dash to doing something else is asinine.

Just stop dude. At this point it's just sad.

Banjo wasn’t getting in the final product either way unfortunately. Both parties knew they weren’t going to be together much longer, and Rare was scooped up just months after release.

pretty sure it's all of them

>Y-you can't do things out of a dash it totally limits your options!
>You actually can upsmash out of a dash directly
>Or do literally anything by just pressing down or wavedashing into another action

lol

We get it, you're incapable of dashing. Just stop at this point.

The entire point of what I was asking was to ask "are they really options if you can just do whatever you want whenever"? There's no real "options" melee just lets you move as fast as the engine will allow because none of your movement options are particularly committal.

>>Or do literally anything by just pressing down or wavedashing into another action
you can't crouch out of the initial dash animation, only the full run, you can jump, which means you can jc upsmash, jc grab or use a special .

it would be shit like Sakurai intended for it to be and it wouldn't develop a competitive scene, wouldn't get put into MLG and EVO, wouldn't springboard brawl's scene which would have resulted in there not being a scene for any game afterwards.

Dash dancing is more of a commitment as you approach faster so have less time to react to your opponent.
Out of dash you can't tilt or jab, can't dash foward (well it takes 2 more frames if you're as fast as possible in a dash dance), you can't get full backwards drift on jumps, can't get full length wavedash backs, your grab is at least a frame slower (if you JC grab), you can't downsmash and can only foward smash with a one frame window by pivoting.
Dashing also changes your hurtbox which can be disadvantageous at times.

>You can also cancel a dash by crouching
No you can't. You can cancel a run by cancelling but you have to dash for a long time before you go into run.
>do literally anything by just pressing down or wavedashing into another action
Wavedashing is at least a 13 frame commitment.

Forgot you can't downb either