DMC3: Kino's Awakening

MGS3 was worse than 1 and 2 though, so your analogy is off.

MGS3 basically became the new point of the series. Same with DMC3. Vergil and Big Boss changed their series.

People give 3 way too much credit for its story. A video game puts together a half-competent and people lose their minds over it.

It's really well done though.

It's good because it complements its gameplay so well. Sort of like MG Revengeance. In a vacuum, the story is mediocre. But when you consider the gameplay that surrounds it, you come to appreciate it more.

Vergil changed it for the better, Big Boss changed it for the worse.

Shit? How is it shit? The gameplay is easily the best in the series. The story is trash true, but that doesnt really matter

>m-muh story!!!

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You guys just don't enjoy things very much.

It was possible in 5 until they completely flopped on character motivation and it's execution. It was a fluke in 3 though. Don't how they managed to stumble into a godlike story while improving on the themes of 1.

>Worse than 4
You don't know how bad 4 was.

You could have the greatest gameplay in the world and I still wouldn't consider it a classic without a good story.

4 wasn't that bad. I never felt like 4 felt in blatant fanservice territory like 5 does. It makes some hints at Nero being Vergil's son but leaves it at that. The game is obviously unfinished but I'd argue so is 5.

>until they completely flopped on character motivation and it's execution.
They didn't though.

Then video games aren'r for you.

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*aren't

We just need a shitty game like DMC2 to get Itsuno motivated again into making a toptier game

so you didn't play it, thank you for telling us.

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They did though. Vergil gains Vergin's motivation from Vergin's downfall. Abandonment issues and an inferiority complex to Dante. That's pretty bad when that kickstarts your plot.

You can keep saying that but most beloved games have some sort of funny or engaging story.

>Worse than 4

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>You can keep saying that but most beloved games have some sort of funny or engaging story.
Not really. Are you new to video games? Look at Mario, Tetris, Pac-Man etc. You don't need a story to be a good or beloved game.

>Vergil gains Vergin's motivation from Vergin's downfall. Abandonment issues and an inferiority complex to Dante.
Vergil's motivation in 5 is just the same as Dante's at the start of 3, he wants to beat Dante for the sake of it. And the entire endgame of the story is Nero winning exactly because Dante and Vergil's reasoning for still wanting to fight each other is shallow and petty while he's actually motivated to stop them.

And Vergil doesn't really have abandonment issues (Outside of what he already had before because he failed to protect his mother, but he doesn't blame Dante for that or think she liked him more like in DmC) or an inferiority complex, no more than Dante in 3 anyway.

I've been shitting on 4 for 11 years. 5 is so much worse to me.

You didn't get what 3 was about. Lecturing and beating Dante was just a side job in 3. He wanted Sparda's power since it thinks it'll get rid of his trauma in not being able to save his mother. It's why he keeps asking why Dante doesn't want more power. It's implied throughout the game with him constantly touching the amulet and reaching for it instead of the Force Edge after he lost to Dante. What does he want in 5? He wants to beat Dante since he got destroyed, which doesn't make sense with Vergil's prior characterization. Vergil accepted defeat in 3 and went to the Underworld and he was mind controlled in 1. Dante, V and Vergil's dialogue all point to him having abandonment issues as a retcon. It's Vergin. It was lame there and it's lame here. I can't even be motivation to beat Vergil in 5 since he's so pathetic.

So you play MMOs and shooters?

Maybe video games aren't for you then. Perhaps you would enjoy a nice book, something more your speed. You can read it at any pace you'd like.

4 is worse just because it has a plot not big enough for both Dante and Nero. All the tension went outside the room when Dante turned out to be a good guy or is in the game. It also has the most annoying backtracking in the series outside of 2. Literally makes me want to puke when I get halfway. 5 at least accomodates the plot and the level design isn't as insulting as 4.

Those are retro classics and casual games, they aren't high production modern(as in past 25 years of game dev) video games.

>he wants to beat Dante for the sake of it
He wanted his amulet you moron.

It sucks that people don't see how much they fucked him up. And whenever I say something like that people just start shitposting at me orz

Good post man.

>worse than 2
No

You do realize DMC5 reuses level assets way more than 4 does right? Once the intro missions are over, DMC5 becomes copypaste narrow corridors. Both level design and level art is boring as fuck. Whereas I think in DMC4 both of these things were competently made, even with the backtracking. And 4 has a better story mostly on the merit of it not ruining Vergil.

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>Dante, V and Vergil's dialogue all point to him having abandonment issues as a retcon.
How is that a retcon, that isn't even correct in how you're characterizing it. I understand completely that his desire for power in 3 was basically a coping mechanism because he failed to protect his mother like he thinks his father would have and at the end of 3 he accepted defeat, but in the intermittent like 25 years he was completely torn down to nothing.

His desire in 5 to fight Dante isn't really born out of any sort of high-minded conflict of ideals or a notion that he blames Dante for his problems, he just wants to do it for the sake of it. If you think about it his fights with Dante are probably the happiest moments of his life since they were children, and at the start of 5 it's all he has left to strive for because he's lost everything else.

The plot fits both of them well enough. 5 on the other hand has far more characters and every single returning character was made worse than previous games, and all of the new characters are shit tier. It doesn't have backtracking but it does have V who is boring as fuck to play as, and the level design might not be annoying to you(it is to me, roots and eggs aren't fun) but it is very boring.

4 at least still named areas and had environmental challenges. The lazer room and the slow motion stuff was pretty neato, even the Nero grabbing sections were done much better than 5.

5's most memorable piece of level design for me was a lava elevator. Really wow.

The most annoying thing is this shouldn't have been an issue. Why are they forcing abandonment issues and an inferiority complex on Vergil? They could've just said that Vergil wanted to get rid of his human side since he thinks it dragged him down. Then the ending could be about having Vergil wanting Dante, or to a lesser extent Nero, to prove him wrong for wanting that power and the sacrifices he made to get it. I'll rather have somebody insecure in their obsession than what we got. People can even attribute V to his insecurity. It's a slam dunk. It continues from 3 naturally.

Now you're moving the goalposts. You originally said
>You could have the greatest gameplay in the world and I still wouldn't consider it a classic without a good story.
You never said anything about how old a game should be to meet your criteria to be a classic.

If DMC3 was a movie it would probably be my favorite movie.
Kill Bill is in my top 5

>He wanted his amulet you moron.
Don't be a retard and use some reading comprehension, I didn't say that was VERGIL'S motivation at the start of 3, I said it was DANTE'S, and in 5 Vergil's motivation is the same as Dante's then because he has nothing else to fight for, just like Dante didn't.

>Why are they forcing abandonment issues and an inferiority complex on Vergil?
Because you're mischaracterizing the situation and those aren't his issues.

Yes. 3 was a clunky slog where you spent half your time in the pause menu to change camos and despite some innovations here and there, just couldn't hold up to the other two in damn near every category.

I wasn't the other poster.

My bad.

I don't really understand what you're saying here. I just don't like how anything turned out in 5's story. Vergil especially.

>48 posts
>18 IPs
Stop samefagging to keep your shitty thread up, OP.

You have a room temperature IQ.

But they are. V's monologue on it hammers it down with Dante, V and Vergil's dialogue all pointing to it. Why would Vergil want to beat Dante? It doesn't make any sense. The rivalry has always been there and they took pleasure from fighting each other but they had reason to fight. Vergil has no reason in this game. Dante wants to close the gate with the Yamato but Vergil has no reason other than "I want to beat Dante since it'll prove me superior", which is weak.

And you're a pathetic faggot constantly replying to yourself in your own thread. Neck yourself.

>2.6 posts per IP
I mean shit this is my fourth post in this thread. Do you post once then close a thread or something?

>but they had reason to fight
No they didn't, you stupid retard. Dante doesn't care about Vergil's plans for most of 3 and just wants an excuse to fight him because it's fun.

It was already done in a superior manner in DMC5. Literally jumped out of my seat and screamed "KINO!" at the top of my lungs when they made the grand Vergil reveal.

What kind of a person acts like you are right now? It's the middle of the night and the thread has been up for over an hour. 19 posters and 54 posts talking about some video games, in other words its fucking nothing. What exactly made you so mad? I'm not OP and I have 13 (you)'s and you're saying I'm OP samefagging? Samefagging what? Why? You're fucking retarded, take a break from the internet.

DMC3 ends with Vergil losing to Dante and not being able to get Sparda's power. DMC5 has Urizen and in turn Vergil getting power from the Quilphoth's fruit, something comparable to Sparda's power. All that remains is to have Vergil ponder if sacrificing all those people that died to the Quilphoth were worth sacrificing since the story seem to be pushing that V let him feel the gravity of his sins.

You completely missed the point of the game...

DMC5 is not kino. It's Marlel capeshit.

dante is overpowered as fuck in 5 and there's almost no tension in the story. it doesn't help that the story is 'lol vergil is being autistic again' and basically a shittier rehash of 3. not saying that 5 was a bad game. It was very consistent throughout and had no major flaws, but it didn't have as many highs and peaks like 3 (although 3 admittedly had many flaws).

also the music in 5 was ass. there were like 3 good tracks in the game -- Devil Trigger, Cavalier... and yeah

>fight King Ceberus
>beginning of DMC3 Cerberus' theme starts playing
>fuck yeah
>transitions into some other garbage

fuck you capcom

literally a suoy boy

Doesnt dante practically scream their mom died because she wouldnt stop looking for him at vergil when he first pops up being autistic
I agree if you try to view them fighting through the lense of vergil only wanting to prove himself better its stupid but dante is equally guilty in this because they dont need a reason to fight, lady spells it out clearly in 3s intro. They get twisted pleasure from it. Shit they immediately go back to fighting(granted its more light hearted sparring) in hell

Because Vergil invited Dante with a demon attack and want to take his amulet. Dante was curious about Vergil's plans and it was only because Lady convinced him to change that he gained a reason to fight. It's why he won in the end of 3.

>Getting this defensive over being called out for samefagging.
Nice one playing yourself, OP.

>and had no major flaws
V, Nico, and the two "babes" jobbing. Nero being a shittier character than usual, and even Dante and Vergil had weak performances.

You're not going to see a story on the level of 3 in this series again, sequels come with baggage that makes it difficult to write an impactful plot since you need to resolve shit from the previous games. They've been trying to go into a new direction since 4 with Nero, but the fan base is too autistic about muh red coat man, so they need to slowly roll into a new set of characters over several games.

Seek mental help. I'm just trying to help you realize how stupid you're acting.

at least it had more gameplay than 2.

Vergil gave us his retarded son, his angst demonified and Kylo Ren. I wouldn't say he improved anything within the series.

Yeah its a shame most people dont like direct downgrades
I like Nero enough. But not nearly enough to carry the franchise. Hes just good as extra ontop of getting Dante

oh i just meant gameplay wise there were no major flaws. the bosses were all fairly decent (maybe except Gilgamesh) and there were no cancerous as fuck enemies like the Fallen

3 had a ton of really good boss fights but that got balanced out by a bunch of shitty ones and annoying as fuck enemies to fight

Whatever you say, samefag.

Then go "play" Guns of the Patriots, Devil May Cry is all about the gameplay. A good story is a welcome plus but still a plus.

Big Boss gave us "AND U R 2!". Checkmate.

I thought the bosses and enemies were pretty boring personally. Scissors guys were a let down. 4 had better enemies imo.

MGS4 didn't have a good story though ?_?

DMC also had a semi interesting story with a good theme. MGS4 had a mediocre gameplay and even shittier story.

>V's monologue on it hammers it down with Dante, V and Vergil's dialogue all pointing to it.
No, not at all. Dante thinks Vergil blames him or Eva for not protecting him, but neither V or Vergil say any such thing, on the contrary he blames himself for not protecting her, and his lust for power was born out of that desire to never be so helpless again.

>Why would Vergil want to beat Dante? It doesn't make any sense. The rivalry has always been there and they took pleasure from fighting each other but they had reason to fight. Vergil has no reason in this game
It's like I just said, Vergil's reason for wanting to fight Dante is the same as Dante's reason for wanting to fight Vergil at the start of 3. He doesn't have a strong ideological reason to do it, he just wants to do it for the fun of it and to get one over on his brother.

And for that matter, Dante doesn't have much of a reason to fight him either in 5. Sure you have Yamato to close the gate, but realistically Vergil would do it anyway if he wasn't waiting to fight Dante. For both of them their ideals from 3 get flipped on their heads, as Vergil is reduced to a weak human who's forced to rely on others but nevertheless pushes himself to right his wrongs, while Dante is forced to acquire more power in order to defeat Urizen.

By the end their ideals have been shown to not be wholly right or wrong either way, and they almost get so carried away in their petty rivalry that they let the world end. That's why Nero beats both of them down, because he actually has strong reasons for stopping them and resolving the situation.

He seems like the type of faggot to give nuGOW a 10/10 for "le cinematic experience XD"

>Doesnt dante practically scream their mom died because she wouldnt stop looking for him at vergil when he first pops up being autistic
When do you mean? He says that to Urizen, but Vergil never expresses the idea at all.

Not him and I agree with him but I wouldn't touch a game like that with a ten foot pole.

GoW4 is a good game though.

the game is actually great you're just a faggot

It's complete garbage. Literally "what would happen if we mixed DMC4 with DmC?"

V talked about being protected and loved. He also talked about being alone. Did you play the game? Vergil also talked about switching fates if Eva found him instead of Dante. Dante was curious about Vergil's plans. Vergil in 5 outright states he wants to beat Dante to feel superior. Also Vergil knew that Dante would seek him out to get Yamato. It's why he ran to space. A shitty motivation to be the center of the story.

I hate GoW. That game is gay.

Yeah, fuck off, Snoynigger. nuGOW is fucking trash.

Have you guys even played MGS1 recently? The level design is only good for the first two rooms, after that it turns into gimmick corridors with very little stealth that essentially just exists to keep the story going forward. The game introduces mechanics like searchlights, leaving footsteps in the snow and making noises by stepping in puddles of water that never return towards the later part of the game. The final few hours is just slogging back and forth through corridors to get a keycard working, barely an stealth. At least MGS3 had consistent gameplay throughout and put stealth as the main focus.

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I like how you neglect to mention what V says immediately afterwards.

Not him but the new gow is a very decent game
The only downsides are lack of enemy variety and the fact that old Gow had to be killed for it

It's really not. The only thing it has going for it is the environments, which are admittedly impressive. But it's only pretty to look at, as an actual GAME, it falls short on almost every other level. The combat is garbage and repetitive, the movement is restricted to the point you don't even have a jump button anymore. Everything about the gameplay is streamlined and neutered because nuGOW was specifically tailor-made to feel more like a movie than a game. It's just bad.

>V talked about being protected and loved. He also talked about being alone.
No shit V talked about that. It was always part of Vergil's character that he was using power as a coping mechanism to not feel so helpless and to fill the void in his life. V is just using some self-reflection and openly acknowledging these things. That doesn't equal an abandonment issue, not in the sense that it implies he blames Eva or Dante.

>Vergil also talked about switching fates if Eva found him instead of Dante.
That ties in to the whole "Mad Qualia" theme of the game, which was actually heavily present in 3 as well. Vergil is wondering if those slight differences in experience and perspective during that night which first started them on drastically different paths were switched, would they have each other's lives? It's the question of if there was some innate difference which would have inevitably led them each to where they are now, or if things could have been completely flipped but for a few small details.

>Dante was curious about Vergil's plans.
In 3? Dante didn't at all care about Vergil's plans at the start, he just wanted to kick his ass.

>Vergil in 5 outright states he wants to beat Dante
Yes.
>to feel superior
No. Not in any sort of inferiority complex way, anyhow. At most it's like a childish thing of evening the score, and given they're literally doing that exact thing in the end, that's very strongly stated to be the case.

>Also Vergil knew that Dante would seek him out to get Yamato.
Frankly Dante would do it anyway, Yamato was just the excuse. He went to the top of the tree mainly to let Dante recover so they could fight evenly.

>A shitty motivation to be the center of the story.
The entire point is that they have weak motivations for fighting by then, which is why Nero can step in, get them to acknowledge that, and resolve their conflict.

lol faggots still using this argument yep faggot confirmed

It's a fact.

>imagine Trish getting pinned against a gray wall, that's the same color of her fucking boring bitch-ass character who imperonates moms becuase she's literally an unholy wretch with no dignity whatsoever, while at the same time the demon-whore who suckled Mundus' big red tri-balls and had so much piss-stained demon cum splurged all over her hair, it got dyed blond, is being fisted with pizza up her matrix-2000 black fetish pants ripped apart, so hard the term yeast infection gets a new meaning, and with her last whoreish, skanky, breaths she coughs up the crusty, hell-cum out her ps2-octagon mouth, leaving her dark soul unfilled, yet her ass stuffed to the brim

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Why are you spouting so much shit, nincel? GoW4 has objectively better combat than the old GoW games. There are way more mechanics to juggle, enemies are more varied and you also need to consider spacing and situational awareness. The game is also objectively less "movie" than the older GoW games since they got rid of near all QTEs save a few optional ones.

Hell the only thing you said was a positive is a negative since the older GoW games had better environments due to fixed camera angles. I have no doubt you haven't played the games even. Eat shit.

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DMC 3 is the most overrated game in existence. The story is average at best and sometimes even nonsensical. The only good cutscene is the one OP posted, everything else is dumb trash and the only reason it is held in high reverence is because of dumb nostalgia faggotos who played this as childten in the mid 2000's.

t. DMC4 fag.

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t. actual child who played 4 first

I did play DMC1 first back in like 2013.

lol imagine being this retarded.
GoW4 is even more casual shit than previous games.

Try harder nincel

>GoW4 has objectively better combat than the old GoW games.
absolutely fucking cringe post

You don't need to samefag

Stop reminding me that 4 had the potential to be good if they just stuck to making it all about Nero

stop being a retard

>This is your brain on Snoy
lmao fuck off. nuGOW is easily the worst game in the series to date. Only soi eating faggots who hate the challenge of actually controlling a character themselves and would instead prefer a running simulator where barely any thinking is needed would say otherwise.

Nero is great, the delusional nostalgia faggot.

Come back with an argument next time nincel

what

I don't even own a Nintendo console, faggot. But it doesn't take a Nintendofag, Xboxfag or mustard race fag to see that nuGOW is a shit game trying to be a movie.

Not an argument nincel

Porn is much better with a story though.

>Can it ever be done again?
No. Because that era of gaming is over and gone for good. A game with both fun and challenging gameplay and a great story. You can't have both of those anymore.

Keep being retarded.

youtube.com/watch?v=bTmv7_FqiC0

K I N O
I
N
O

People treating Carmack as anything but a nerd in the purest sense are retarded. He has autism, he can't appreciate a good story. His world view revolves around 3D technology. When it comes to his knowledge on story he only knows about shitty western porn and games like Doom.

Most retarded post itt

The dicksucking over 3's story is becoming unbearable.

It's literally typical red/blue oni shit which is everywhere in japanese fiction.

Good doesn't have to mean first of a kind.

I played DMC3 for the first time in 2018 and this very cutscene reconnected me with my adolescent self for the duration of it, i was flooded out of nowhere with childishness and rad feelings. That's power of execution, this scene is the ultimate cool.

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There's no other game like it really. The story by itself wouldn't be that memorable if the gameplay and everything else wasn't so good. It's just very well presented and hits all the right notes for an action game

DMC5 is such a piece of shit.

Exact same shit for me, except I finished 3 for the first time like a week ago. There are so many hidden easter eggs, other shit and bonus content in 3 that frankly it's astonishing.

>y typical red/blue oni shit
The autistic weeb rears his head once again.

i feel like the people who say that story in dmc5 is complete shit are people who didn't even understand it and spew brainlet shit like this

Now imagine playing it when it came out.

I was reading the DMC3124 artbook the other day and they talked about how for DMC3, they were told to only pander to the Japanese user base, and not care about what would go over well in the west. With DMC4 they actively designed stuff hoping to pander to the western market

Was it a mistake?

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Even if you "understand" the DMC5 story, it's hard to argue it did a better job conveying it than DMC3. The few characters in DMC3 allowed for a story that held a consistent focus throughout and gave every character a worthy character arc with clear beginnings, middles and ends. That type of narrative flow isn't present in DMC5. It's way more random and eventually feels glued together.

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No, Japanese have legendarily shit taste, it's a non-factor in the goodness of 3.

Drew Nero's DT boys, will probably color it later at some point

Attached: Nero DT Low Res.png (1462x1892, 1.45M)

This is weird to me because DMC3 has some very western-centric character designs. Maybe they just did what they liked instead of trying to appeal to the Avengers audience (actual dev quote for DMC5)

it has pacing issues yeah, but none of them are that major
it's a good story, but yeah, it's not as good as 3

DMC3's plot is simplistic therefore it's effective. It's an action movie plot which doesn't lose itself in pointless exposition and boring TV-tier drama.
That's why it's so memorable, quotable and powerful. You could say it's because it's dumb.

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Honestly man it's just hard arguing with people defending it. Whether you have a good point or if you understand it or not, what actually matters is whether you enjoyed it. The people who like it are going to defend the most retarded things imaginable so it doesn't matter what the person who doesn't like it says, they won't be able to change the mind of the fan. And when you start arguing with them you're going to make mistakes because the story is really dumb.

Like I loathed the story in 5 and for starters I can't even fathom how people can defend V, so already the opposition I'd have to face if I wanted to argue is tremendous.
>Lady and Trish have no place in the game
>Dante and Vergil's dialogue and voice acting was outright bad
>Nero and Dante swear way too much
>Nico is the worst character I've ever experienced

The list just goes on and on, and the story is what facilitates it all. Disliking it goes deeper than simply understanding it, it's one of those tales that you have to be capable of justifying to enjoy. Personally I can't justify any of it so my points might seem completely nonsensical to someone who can, because to him the story makes sense. And I'm here scratching my head wondering what went wrong that a DMC that basically has zero "cool" moments is getting so well received.

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DMC5 is simplistic too, and just outright dumb and bad.

noice work mate

it's shit

So where do Lady and Arkham fit into your red an blue oni story?

I keep saying it DMC5 is amazing but DMC3's still reigns as supreme king. I admit it was not dethroned yet i'm playing DMC5, not that old game.

Hi Barry

>Lady and Trish have no place in this game
they serve to establish Urizen as a legitimate threat, no?
sure, other than that they're pretty pointless
but establishing a villain is still important
same happens to Dante to an extent
>Dante and Vergil's dialogue and voice acting was outright bad
why?
>Nero and Dante swear way too much
legitimate complaint, though still entirely subjective
>Nico is the worst character I've ever experienced
why?

i get what you're saying though

youtube.com/watch?v=fNaFSxzRA1I

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People who think DMC5 has a good story are dumb. They'll try to debate you by referencing some mountain of subtleties and twice-buried interpretations of the last 5 missions of the game and in reference to only 2 (or 4, since V and Urizen are just parts of another character and all the growth they cite for that character are only visible through these two characters) of the game's cast of 8 (more if you count Morrison and Kyrie as part of the cast).

DMC5 is the best gameplay though, so it's probably better than 3. It's hard to tell since a good story gives context to gameplay that elevates it from a pretty fun combat encounter to "kino", as retards like to say.

5's plot is actually not that worse than 3's. The only people saying it was outright bad are autistic faggots who spout "OMG SO KINO XD" at any scene that makes them cream their diapers and just wanted a generic bittersweet/tragic ending where one of the characters has to die for whatever reason. They didn't get that so now they sperg out about it.

the duality of man

post woman in red

What's important is that they both agree that describing things as "kino" is retarded.

Lady has a massively important scene where she tells Nero it's a bad idea to kill your father

Trish also hears V out and validates his existence with "you need to see this through".

I don't think they were super important, but there were some key scenes involving them, that required their characters

>he butchered innocent people
>WOHOOO YEAAAAHHHHH

Develop your arguments a little, don't be lazy like that.
DMC5's plot wastes its time circling the pot, from start to finish you have Nero who doesn't have the whole picture, Dante who doesn't have the whole picture and V who has the whole picture but is being a little bitch by not telling Nero or Dante what's really going on. He tries to but the writer said no he doesn't get to tell neither of them.
Some cutscenes have funny jokes in them, some cutscenes have goofy things happening, some cutscenes they are just exposing what they're going to do next but at the end of the cutscene, invariably, nothing much happened and that's my grievance with DMC5's plot.
It's much more serious in tone and that's fine but the way it's delivered ultimately is too weak, there is so little feeling to be felt.
Maybe it's only a resultant of having so may characters to introduce since they needed to introduce Nico, Nero (again because it's kind of a new Nero), they needed to introduce V, Urizen, Griffon, Morrison. Ultimately DMC5 is the game we have and i like it. I just skip the cutscenes because beyond the information they deliver they often have nothing to offer and i've seen the info already.

DMC5 has an underrated story and it made Vergil a more interesting character.

If you think 4's story is better you're unironically a brainlet.

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>they serve to establish Urizen as a legitimate threat, no?
Dante getting slapped and his unbreakable sword breaking would have done that just fine. The girls are just useless damsels which stains their established lore.
>why?
I don't know, the writers just went full retard and their voices are just off.
Nico disgusts me. She's everything wrong with an entire generation of humanity.

But yeah this "issue" is one of the deeper arguments I've ever seen on Yea Forums. It's showing a stark difference in peoples mentalities, it's practically retard zoomer vs oldfag boomer.

kek.

High IQ.
Low IQ.

"Kino" is a thing though. Kino+Ludo=DMC3. Ludo+Cringe=DMC5.

What's so bad about 4? I haven't really played it but from watching combo video the combat seems pretty good.

>"Kino" is a thing though.
I know it's a thing, it's just a retarded thing.

youtube.com/watch?v=G35b4R9bk8g

You're so fucking stupid if you don't see the nuance in this scene. It's literally 20/10 storytelling in vidya.

There's literally no point. I mean hell you literally don't even understand 5's story, it's a total waste of time getting into this.

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>Dante getting slapped and his unbreakable sword breaking would have done that just fine.
eh, maybe
>The girls are just useless damsels which stains their established lore.
>I don't know, the writers just went full retard and their voices are just off.
>Nico disgusts me. She's everything wrong with an entire generation of humanity.
oh, so it bad because i say so
alright, i getcha

4 is literally less than half a game. There are 20 missions, you finish 11 and then you swap characters and turn around, going back through the exact same path and fighting the exact same bosses, then you fight the exact same bosses AGAIN as Nero during Mission 19 with that hellish fucking dice game, then you get Sanctus fight:the squeakquel and the game's over

It's legit terrible and leaves an awful impression. Don't get me wrong, what's there is good, but it's just pathetic. In terms of gameplay mechanics it was great too, but easy stuff like Jump Cancelling was incredibly specific for no reason and it punished the average player

Pretty much nothing, it's overall a much beetter game than 5.

>The only people saying it was outright bad are autistic faggots who spout "OMG SO KINO XD" at any scene that makes them cream their diapers and just wanted a generic bittersweet/tragic ending where one of the characters has to die for whatever reason. They didn't get that so now they sperg out about it.

I see this argument all the time in these types of threads: People don't like DMC5 because someone didn't die.

Yet, I've never seen one person say that's the reason the story's bad. No on in this thread even says that. Posters above were complaining that Vergil gets butchered as a character and has literally zero motivations for his actions at the end of the game, but they never complain that he doesn't die or that Dante dies or something.

What do you mean i don't understand it?

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god i hate pretentious faggots who unironically use the word "kino"

This almost has what it takes to be a pasta.

I'm honestly disappointed Nero didn't bleed out at the start.

>Dante who doesn't have the whole picture
>It's much more serious in tone
>they needed to introduce Nico
>they needed to introduce V, Urizen, Griffon, Morrison
You don't understand anything.

It's used ironically though.

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DMC5 is more serious come on, the bike kung-fu is at a minimum in here and yeah they needed to spend cutscene time introducing all these characters which ends up taking cutscene time because you need to hear them talk to know who they are and we end up with a lot of scenes of people just talking to each other and riffing jokes for the sake of it.

Dante had the full picture, it's less serious than any of the other games, and they didn't need to introduce any of those characters.

>and it still turned out shit. Somehow it was mostly worse than even 4
5 isn't the masterpiece 3 was but you're delusional if you think it's shit. 5 is great, just not perfect.

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youtube.com/watch?v=GIpbY_TjzkA

DMC5 had one (1) cool cutscene.

CAPCOM IS BACK

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Holy fucking shit, you can do that?

Yet they did introduce these character by having them play off of each other on screen. DMC3 did this also but it had only 4.5 characters and even if you ignore the number DMC3 was much more effective at introductions. Like its story telling, precise, to the point, no bullshit.
Introducing Vergil: he cuts down an apologetic demon without a glance. Now we know how he's like, we know he's an asshole but there is a twist at the end we learn Vergil is not actually a complete badguy. At no point the game baits that twist, at no point does it waste time posing the question whether or not he's an ass or not. DMC5 does that a lot and i don't like it it's shitty drama.

That's still more than 4.

Wrong I just posted one that BTFO out DMC5.

It was a cocktease but the slow pace of suffer wouldn't have fit KC. He's way more feral and aggressive. Even when 3cerb breaks his chains he's still a slug. Kc is seething from the beggining and acts like it has fucking rabies. That said his actual theme is crap

>want to scroll through slowly
>its a fucking .jif

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No you didn't.

4 was kino

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4 and 5 are improvements in may ways you can say the series peaked at 3 but you cant say the games that came after werent worthwhile.

I cringe when people unironically say cringe

Are you the type of faggot who hates any kind of storytelling in vidya if it involves anything more than "here is bad guy now go kill him"? Too complicated for your low IQ?

Cringe.

Crinfe

I think he just wants attention. No one would commit to hating on a good thing for any other reason.

What was Vergil dying from in the beginning of 5, why was he breaking down?

"Suffering defeat after defeat, that man's body was beginning to break down" Mundus aids

20 days later and people are still discussing the story? No wonder it took like 15 days to find that DKA trick. Tech is coming to a snails pace

Alright, let's break down why DMC5's story is a big heap of disappointment and why a lot of people think it's trash.

Let's start with the fact that it's unfocused. 3 different protagonists with their own missions to tell a story within 20 missions is pretty fucking daunting. Capcom tried to give 3 of them separate routes, but this is completely misguided as the game ends up being all over the place in a lot of different ways. The chronological order being shuffled adds on even more of a headache.

The biggest weakness of the above approach is that you rarely get to put the characters together. You could tell a satisfying story with all 3 protagonists going their different ways and then convening later, it isn't inherently wrong, but most of the fanbase likes DMC's characters a lot and the best part about having characters is seeing how they interact with other characters. There is woefully little screen time for the characters to get together and bounce off each other. Half the reason that Nico is endearing, for the people who like her, is that she gets to play off Nero.

I guess this is where I get to talk about Trish and Lady's roles in the story. Lady bringing up the trauma of killing her father to Nero who may have to kill his father when it turns out he's Urizen is a very good story bit. It would give her a role in the story as an actual character. Hell, she's not even a plot device in the game right now; she's just incidental. That interaction with Nero is one line and he doesn't really even get to say anything to her and we don't see her reaction as Nero jumps out of the van. Lady seems like she'd be pretty fucking relevant as a character in a story dealing with a family settling their old feuds and the new generation breaking the old habits.

Trish has nothing to do in the story right now. She's always been a nothing character who has only had two attributes: She looks like Dante's mom and she's a reformed demon. Total waste.

tiny waist
far eye is bigger than the near eye
animu no nose
cleft lip
stubby arms

Good representation of the worst things in the DMC franchise

>doesn't use the devil bringer mod
Fuck out of here

I don't like the super long nails on 5's DB.
Or demonic arms in general, even Dante's DT has long nails

>thinking I'm gonna read all that shit
Just gimme a tl;dr faggot

Nico's role should have just been Lady. Nico is a shit character.

>implying the mod has the nails

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Cont.

If you're going to have Trish in the game, give her something to do involving Dante's family. Her saying, "I'm not your mommy and you need to see this through" is her only involvement in the game right now. If you're going insist on having this character show up because DMC5 is a big fanservice extravaganza, give her some kind agency in the story. I'm not going to directly suggest anything because changing the direction of the game's story isn't really what I'm trying to do and I'm sure any suggestion I make would be met with "lol that's retarded" because we're on Yea Forums. I'll just leave it at the fact that she takes up screen time doing nothing.

All of this ranting about the lack of character interactions is ultimately building to an argument about how the game saves any of its actual exploration of what seems to be the main underlying themes for the last few missions and only with a few lines of dialogue. Because most characters can't do much to explore each others' motivations and histories because they're all in different rooms at different times, we get just a bunch of fuzzy interiority and characters muttering motivations to themselves as placeholders for actual dialogue.

Let's talk about a really easy to follow storyline in the game: Nero becomes better than his father.

Nero starts the game feeling powerless because his arm gets ripped off.
He gets his Devil Breakers from Nico.
He realizes he needs power to protect the things that are important to him.
He doesn't lose sight of what's important to him though in the pursuit of power.
This affirmation that he needs power, but only to protect what's important to him places him thematically between Dante and Vergil, and then physically between them as he acts on protecting what's important to him.

Easy and straightforward, but it's really blah in the game and poorly conveyed; I imagine some people don't even see it.

I don't think it was poorly conveyed at all, it was pretty transparent at Mission 20

How do i install this?

I think you were right we shouldn't get into this.

You think i hate DMC5? Good imagination.

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I don't even know what you're trying to say.

The don't read it. The point of this is that people who complain about DMC5 haters never having an actual argument outside of "you don't like it because it's not bittersweet" will shut up and actually engage in a conversation about the story's actual issues.

Cont.

Now we're getting into theme conveyance, which may require some minor hypothetical rewrites, so please don't dismiss all of this as fanfiction fantasy. The aforementioned plot thread is conveyed in a handful of events:

Cutscene with Nero getting his arm ripped off.
Nero seethes at being called deadweight.
Nero mutters to himself just before the Artemis fight that you need power to protect anything.
Nero's conversation with Kyrie and then monologue about how he regrets not being able to save Credo.
Nero stops Dante and Vergil from killing each other.

You get two events at the very beginning of the game and two at the very end of the game. Nero drops out of story importance for the entire middle as he makes his way to Urizen and gets swatted again, and then Dante takes the spotlight.

This is real weird given that his traveling companion for pretty much the entire game is an aspect of his father, the character he's being implicitly compared with. This never really comes up though where Nero and V have any interactions about what they're doing or how they're going to do it. I think the closest they come is when Nero brusquely says, "If Dante's alive, we save him. If he's not, we don't." That's pretty much the most they get aside from expositional stuff where aspects of the Qliphoth and Urizen get explained.

But why? V goes on a quest to get Sparda, so that Nero has enough power to beat Urizen. Why doesn't Nero go with him? Why don't we get some sneaky father/son moments where V can comment on how Nero behaves or acts? It seems like an easy plug and would actually fill out Nero and V(ergil)'s characters as well as build on and explore the already existing themes in the story.

DMC5 is just fanservice for people who aren't actual fans. It's really weird.

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...Yes?

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>DMC5 is just fanservice for people who aren't actual fans
The best way to describe DMC5 right here. If they cared about fans, they'd atleast keep the game visually in tone with older DMC games instead of redesigning every character into something else entirely. And the story throws the cheapest bones to its fans.

3 is a masterpiece because the gameplay, level design are absolutely on point and the story perfectly ties in with those two. People are deluded if they think the story isn't important. That last fight with Vergil is iconic as FUCK because of what it means; you've fought him repeatedly as the story progresses and even fought alongside him but now both characters see it's inevitable; brother must fight brother. Maybe to the death. Vergil gets increasingly difficult throughout the game and now he gives it all he's got, because he HAS to do this. And Dante HAS to stop him. Unlike in 5 where they're just like 'hurr durr we haven't seen eachother in decades but we fight because we always have'. In 3 the story reaches its summit as it becomes clear; their souls are at odds. Stories about equally matched but opposite brothers fighting eachother are very evocative and here it is pulled off perfectly.

In 5 the gameplay is actually better but the level design is just fine while the story is below average. Nero disappears for most of final missions then just turns up like 'DURR I HAVE ULTIMATE POWER NOW' and Vergil is just like 'OK I guess I lost one fight so I'll save the world now, bye son I just found out about'

It's paced horribly. I was actually shocked the second time you fight Urizen as Nero because I was like 'wtf? I'm back here already? When did that happen. Why am I here? I got fucked up so bad last time why would it be different now?'

And who's idea was it to have an entire V level that consists only of identical rooms made out of scaffolding.

Good analysis, but you storyfags are still retarded

The characters have been redesigned in every single game. Just shut up

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>let's just turn Nero into a cheeky normie and make him the new protagonist
>that'll please DMC fans
>but sir, Nero doesn't have any fans

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I think I've addressed why treating the core arc of one of your protagonists as bookends for a story is kind of lame in the last post. I'm going to keep going.

Cont.

I don't really know how I'm going to wrap up this diatribe on how the story is unfocused because I've been drinking and I'm losing the thread here, but I think that the last two missions are prime examples of how everyone's motivations and arcs get lost in the shuffle.

Why the fuck does Vergil even go sit up at the top (bottom) of the Qliphoth and hold the world hostage for his petty grudge? After all the work V does for building Vergil out, we learn quite a few things about why the does what he does throughout the games (these end up being theories lots of fans already had and guessed at in the past, but it's nice to see them explicitly explored in-game), why does he act exactly like DMC3 Vergil, who was a lifetime of growth ago? There's no real reason for him to fight Dante in M19, which means he has no reason to fight Vergil in M20 (as Nero is only stopping the two from fighting). Fuck, Vergil is the one who suggests they finally get around to clipping the Qliphoth roots because it'll disrupt their brotherly rivalry, which is shown to be more playful instead of antagonistic or sinister that now Vergil realizes he's been a shitbag once V fuses back into him.

Because I don't want to keep writing all this dribble and because I think no one gives a shit, I'm going to end there.

Fuck you niggers DMC4 Nero was shit but DMC5 Nero is top tier

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>But why? V goes on a quest to get Sparda, so that Nero has enough power to beat Urizen. Why doesn't Nero go with him? Why don't we get some sneaky father/son moments where V can comment on how Nero behaves or acts? It seems like an easy plug and would actually fill out Nero and V(ergil)'s characters as well as build on and explore the already existing themes in the story.
Are you dense? V(ergil) doesn't even know Nero is his kid at that point. Why on Earth would they display any father/son like interaction when neither of them know who the other one really is?

Karnival was such a good fit for Dante, it’s a shame we never get to see him ride around in it again after DMC1. If Kamiya continued the series I bet it would have been what the Tornado was to Sonic.

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Are you dense?

I said "sneaky" father/son moments because you're right, they don't know they're related in any way. They would just be commenting on how the other acts and show their approval/disapproval. I didn't say that they have moments where V says, "SON, YOU'VE GROWN INTO A FINE YOUNG MAN." Having V comment on Nero being a brash hothead or him using brute force to solve issues and showing him you can do things with a little finesse would work perfectly fine as just V and Nero playing off each other as well as being a cheeky retroactive father/son bonding moment after the reveal happens.

You've just absorbed shitty memes into your intellect. He's garbage, absolute garbage.

>I actually cringe a bit when people say "Capcom is back!".

Capcom was the first to say it, I’ll never understand why people like you care so much about something like that. What exactly about it is worth a cringe?

>Yea Forums now hates DMC5
I knew this was going to happen. Oh well, guess we'll start liking it again when 6 comes out.

Because they're still in the dumps.

Hate is a strong word. Even if I autistically type out walls of text about why the story is disappointing, I've still put like a hundred hours into the game playing through the difficulties and fucking around in the void. I'm only disappointed with 5's story. It's gameplay is fucking incredible.

>retarded secondary is disappointed long-time fans don't like babbie's first entry into the franchise
Grow up

why do people say the gameplay is incredibly when it's just a combo simulator

Ah, it's fine. The DMC threads themselves are usually pretty comfy (at least when a certain psychotic fujo isn't shitting it up).

Yea Forums is just going through its usual period of psuedo contrarianism to look like they're going against the grain and trying to convince themselves they have an IQ higher than 70. It's happening with Sekiro right now too. You constantly see retards saying it's the worst From game since DaS 2, or that it's even worse than DaS 2. Try not to take it too seriously.

Because I have tons of freedom on how to do my combos.

Plus I think the enemies are pretty well designed this game around all the characters. DMC3 had a bunch of shitty enemies that weren't fun and DMC4 had enemies that weren't fun and they were all built for Nero.

DMC5 hits a nice balance of enemies that all have unique flavors to them, nothing feels like it's just a different colored and stronger version of something else, even if some of them look related to each other like Riot, Chaos, and Fury; and they're all built for the three different characters.

"The combo simulator" shows up while you're managing groups of enemies and dodging their attacks. On harder difficulties anyway. Devil Hunter and Human are just punching bag rooms.

Moments like that would have been cool, sure, but not necessary. During the missions, they had an immediate objective to take care of in Urizen, they didn't have time for casual interactions or banter with each other. Though with that said, I would have appreciated seeing them interact in the month between getting BTFO by Urizen and fighting him again. It all just kind of fast forwards with no real in-between.

In what way?
Last few games have been pretty good as well as financially successful no?

youtube.com/watch?v=Dg71MHke4sw

>Trying to pretend you're a long time fan instead of a typical shitposting retard who hasn"t played a game in the series before DmC
kek

Story is important, it sets up your investment in the progression of it. I think Carmack is off the mark when he says this because what would be more accurate is that between gameplay and story, gameplay is the priority.

5 is better than 3. Only blind nostalgia cucks disagree.

>Moments like that would have been cool, sure, but not necessary. During the missions, they had an immediate objective to take care of in Urizen, they didn't have time for casual interactions or banter with each other.

What you're doing here is justifying how potential rewrites wouldn't work because of how the story is currently written. It's never really applicable because in a rewrite, circumstances can be changed by the author easily to accommodate new developments.

Plus, there's plenty of banter as is, just not really with each other.

>Nero bantering with Goliath for a while about how he's a fart in the wind
>"Thought I'd have to pick you out his tummy teeth."
>"Nice! I see you're getting the band back together!"
>"You know, I bet you taste like chicken."

Would have been nice if more of it was actually directed at each other and did some narrative work.

that banter was awful

i imagine what goes through barry's head shitposting like a madman trying to create a narrative that implies dmc5 wasn't fucking great and i giggle like a schoolgirl

it's just so petty, it's only a game so why does it hurt him so much that it turned out good? autism is one hell of a drug

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>being a paranoid schizophrenic