Are turn-based jrpgs dead?

Is Square enix dead?

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I'm dead.

Turn-based jrpgs are not dead, there are plenty snd there will be plenty. About Square Enix I don't know

>DQ still rolls in cash
>FF flops
lol

Considering how well Persona 5 and DQXI did, no.

Squeenix isn't dead they're just creatively dead.

FFXV sold more than DQXI, and XIV prints money.

reminder that FFXV was objectively the fastest selling title in the series

No but final fantasy is dead

You WISH FF flopped. That's the problem with FF. It hasn't been good in years and yet it doesn't flop. What does this horrible franchise need to do to start actually tuning people OFF buying the new games? That's what angers me.

As much as Yea Forums doesn't like to admit it, gamers ARE retards who happily love the idea of being ripped off. If gamers had standards FF15 would NOT be a success and you and I both know it WILL reach 10 million units sold overall. It may take a while til the PS4 gen wraps up, but that it will get there it WILL get there. And it will be all thanks to you gamers.

Not that guy, but if you don't think DQ makes plenty of money in Nipland, you're the one who's suffering from delusions.

...and they fired the director.
>The game sold really R E A L L Y good, user.
Yes, after 11 years in development, what do you think, how much did it cost?

As annoying as the outfit changes were, the major problems with Bravely Default were the repetitiveness, shoddy story, and senseless characters who talk past each other rather than to each other. Fun gameplay though, still like it more than FFX and up overall.

Not him, but FF10 is not that great. It was the beginning of the things that FF13 continued on. No world map, no controllable airship, you're stuck in a hall pressing the controller to go up essentially. The sphere grid wasn't that great as it was very grindy and you NEEDED to grind if you wanted to beat the optional bosses. That monster arena was a real nightmare because the stupid monsters there are tougher than Ultima and Omega Weapon so you needed to grind. And in the International Version? You better grind because Penance and the Dark Aeons are also exceedingly cheap bosses. So many bosses in that game blatantly required grinding and gathering the ingredients to do stuff like Break HP Limit was also tedious.

And speaking of tedium, FF10 officially has the worst sidequests in general. Gathering every single optional weapon means doing one or another annoying task or difficult mini-game. So yeah FF10 wasn't that great. It got by on being the first FF for the PS2 gen meaning it had good visuals and also the novelty of voice acting (even if it was hit and miss). That was the main reason the game sold. But the substance found within the game was disappointing and not very good.

I mean I agree. X was the beginning of the end.

Tabata wasn't fired, though. He left. Also, in spite of inefficient development, it doesn't change the fact that the game sold much faster than other FF games and ultimately held up the brand

I know it does, but we're talking globally here.

youtube.com/watch?v=aPTuTWu9osw

remember that time EA made a LOTR jrpg that played exactly like FFX and you were totally not the fellowship and showed up right where they just were for the entire span of the movies? that was weird

Companies keep trying to push the narrative that turn-based rpgs are obsolete, same as they said Survival Horror has no place in the market anymore or that Single-Player games don't have legs.

They keep getting proven wrong when a good example from any of those is released, but they're stubborn.

>it doesn't change the fact that the game sold much faster than other FF games and ultimately held up the brand
What is marketing?
Also, you seem to forget that most people were waiting for that game since the PS3 days.

And don't lie to yourself. Tabata was fired.

>octopath sells extremely well for being a game for a clearly niche audience
I'm pretty sure Square will continue investing in turn based games. I'd really like to see them remake V or VI in the way they did for IV and III (without the DS limitations that is)

>Not him, but FF10 is not that great. It was the beginning of the things that FF13 continued on. No world map, no controllable airship, you're stuck in a hall pressing the controller to go up essentially.

How was that the beginning of the end? In previous FF games, and almost every jrpg in general, the overworld is shaped like a corridor, conveniently barricaded by mountains and shorelines (and the sea itself is barricaded by reefs, so the game is still linear even when you get a ship) so that you can only proceed down one path, which is inevitably the next plot-critical location, which is typically nestled in some environmental chokepoint so that you HAVE to pass through it and progress the plot before you can access the next part of the world. This leads to very unnatural world design and means there is pretty much no exploration in these games, until you unlock the airship near the end of the game, at which point you've already been forced to traverse the majority of the world in a linear fashion.

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Nice pasta, my friend.

>Nice pasta, my friend.
Doesn't change the fact that it's very true. It's absurd to complain about FFX's linearity were previous FF's were for all intents and purposes just as linear.

Who AA here?

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It's not true at all.

Was going to buy this then heard about the Switch port so I'm waiting. Pretty excited, everybody I use as a litmus test for game buying has said positive things.

I tried this game, it was braindead easy. I got bored after a few hours.

Turn-based jrpgs aren't dead; it's just REALLY hard to innovate a genre like that. All genres have changed whether other genres evolved or regressed except for JRPGs. When developers do try to do something different with the turn-based genre (FFXII or FFXIII for example) people shit all over those efforts. I think that maybe Undertale is the only recent exception, and that game isn't even Japanese. It's a genre cursed by stagnation.

Kind of True, FF X felt unfinished as fuck and was super linear and confined. Definitely lacked a little soul. I was definitely impressed by the graphics back then but the slow dialogues (due to the constant loading time) annoyed the fuck outta me. Even FF 8 and 9 felt more complete, despite their shortcomings.

>It's not true at all.
It absolutely is. Take ff9 for example. For most of the game, you're going from one scripted setpiece to another, with the party constantly separated by the plot, so you don't even get to choose your party members. It's only later in the game that the overworld opens up, and even then, you can still only visit the next plot-critical location.

So you're agreeing with his reasons for saying that FFX isn't that great, but correcting him by saying that all jrpgs have shit design? At least we now know that most jrpg fans are stupid.

At least there is an open-world to explore.

Squeenix made one of the best turn-based JRPGs in history just a few years ago. It's just that none of you actually played it, so that missed you.

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13-2 was mediocre at the very best.

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>At least there is an open-world to explore.
A completely linear one. Hardly anything worth bragging about.

>Are turn-based jrpgs dead?
No.

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There's straight up more to do in FF9 and reasons to visit new places and old places after that initial railroad. The only game that really didn't restrict you in an unnatural way in the series is unironically FFXII. Literally the only reason why you couldn't go to this place or that is due to you being on foot or because you didn't have equipment that could travel through certain place (something that happens in real life too.)

I heard japs didn't like this one very much

They were games that were perfectly adapted to the technological limitations of the past.
Because of this, a JRPG with modern graphics seems a pretty silly endevour. You'd basically handicap a game that is capable of so much more.
It'd be like making a mute movie with CGI.
They were a product of their time and should remain as such.

>They were games that were perfectly adapted to the technological limitations of the past.
What technological limitations would those be?

Anyone know of any good party-based RPG titles that allow for custom portraits made in recent years? Aside from the top down CRPGs.

Hardly. It felt way more open than any FF, had WAY more flexibility than any FF outside of the MMOs, was fast, required you to learn it to complete the harder shit, and was fun all at the same time. I've played every single FF except for Mystic Quest and a few of the spin-offs and just can not see how people don't see this as one of the best games outside of the shit story and sometimes unclear objectives.

If you say so..

but considering all the time/money spent on XV/VsXIII did it make a profit?

because you have to consider:
the cost of making the trailers for XV & VsXIII
the cost of making the CGI movie
the cost of making the Anime
the cost of making the DLCs (even the cancelled story DLCs)
the cost of making the Royal Edition
the cost of making the mobile games
the cost of making the Multiplayer
the cost of keeping the Multiplayer servers running

literally a Last Remnant ripoff

I will be looking into that.

I’m dead of boredom when playing them. Thank god for random battle skip and fast forward.

the weirdest part was that they randomly teleported to the eye of Sauron for the final boss

That game sucked what are you talking about?

>none of you actually played it
after 2 awful games before it in the trilogy who would?

Most people dont touch fire after it burns them
Or wait no even better a food analogy
Most people dont eat food that gives them diarrhea

Movie would've been funder by Sony and brands like Audi. The anine was cheap as fuck.

Picasso is dead.

>funder
funded*

>asks if turn based RPGs are dead
>posts a ATB game

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Octopath did very well. So no to both questions, I guess.

Walt Disney is dead.

It wouldn't be that fucking hard for them to make a good game.
>FFX's combat but with new and improved mechanics
>FFXIII's encounter system but with new and improved mechanics
>FFXII's freeroam exploration but with more interesting level design
>FFVII's variety (party members, mini-games, etc)
>setting of Agni's Philosophy
>music by Uematsu with contributions from Hamauzu and/or Shimomura
>directed by Kitase
>marketing campaign is actually reasonably budgeted - no fashion lines, no announcing the game 5 years before release, no CG movie, no anime, etc
>no ridiculous DLC schemes with a dozen season passes (a high quality expansion a couple years after release is acceptable)

>directed by Kitase
No. Let Chiba take control. He deserves the chance and seems to be the only person there who knows how to actually make a good fucking Final Fantasy game.

Is that what they tell you kids today

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>Pierre

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>French
>Pierre
Please don't tell me you're a self insert fag.

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Didn't notice honestly, but not my clip.

Not sure why every clip of FF7 I have saved is of people who change names though.

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Nah we still have Pokemon, Persona, Dragon Quest and lower budget stuff like Octopath Traveller. All of which are popular and seem to be doing well. So I'm sure we'll see more turn based games in the future. Sadly we probably won't see it in Final Fantasy any time soon though. The fact that not even the FF7 remake is turn based is really tragic.

FUCK SAKE SQUARE

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO BE SO FUCKING INCOMPETENT.
YOU WERE THE GOD DAMM GODS OF THE INDUSTRY AND NOW YOU'RE THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE WHOLE WORLD

LEARN FROM CAPCOM AND FIX YOUR SHIT.
YOUR COMPANY DESERVES BETTER THAN THIS.

AND FUCK DISNEY.
TELL THEM ALL TO FUCK OFF. STOP KINGDOM HEARTS FOR FUCKING EVER.

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Turn-based JRPGs are not dead, but they have stagnated. Similarly, Square Enix is not dead, but they have become former shadows of themselves.

Persona 5 brought it back in a good way.

If TB RPGs are dead, Squeenix killed them
Everyone else had to pick up the slack.

good riddance. Nips don't know how to make good turn based combat. They make trash that you just mash default attack to get through.

D:OS2 is how you make turn based good.

name 1 game you cant mash your way through (on normal difficulty)

I don't think there even is button mashing in D:OS or D:OS2. I've not played the console versions but I doubt there's auto targeting and automatic movement.

They don't even have to be dead. Devs just keep on getting on to these realism and action hype trains that they do not want to try making a good turn based jrpg.

>D:OS2
??

Yes but imagine a turn based JRPG with the budget in development and marketing you'd see out of a game like anything EA or Activision put out. I think some Japanese developer out there could really make something great but we won't likely ever see that day.

Pokemon is probably the best bet, in terms of potential financing behind a massive turn-based JRPG. Too bad Gamefreak is the most incompetent dev team in existence.

Divinity Original Sin 2. Unlike JRPG's western devs can make turn based battle systems that are interesting and fun.
on the flip side, Western Devs can't do action combat for shit, and Japanese make good action games

I'm dead.

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FF VIII remake using the DQXI engine please

Idk it seems like in 2019 turn based jrpgs just aren't needed from a design standpoint anymore now that developers have the tech and progress to make good real time combat.

I still love the classic psx and older jrpgs though, but even playing Persona 5 it just feels to me that if you're like me and like to truly 100% a game it's gonna take you a huge amount of time, and part of that is because it isn't real time combat if it was it would cut it down in half which is frustrating imo.

Name somebody dead

It's just sad that in west designs and settings styles are always stuck in the realism (in japan theres a lot of anime but from time to time you even find some cartoon and realistic styles) muddy colors and devs can't write at least once a single story with stabilished interesting characters for their life. I would explore more these games if it wasn't for these details.

I hope you aren't wrpg-kun and understand that not all characteristics suits certain people's tastes, although I am interesting in giving this game a try.

turn based games are fine when there's actually something to it, but most jrpgs you can just mash attack or play elemental rps with no effort for 99% of the game. Action games let you style on trashmobs and try out different combos and stuff but that doesn't apply to turn based. Not like you're actually going to see if poison works on some random mook when you can just one shot it

There's still some turn based RPGs around, just they're out of vogue is all.

I wish that capcom would make another BOF game so we could get another good Turn based JRPG out.

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actually your post made me think that yeah turn based works if you think of it (and turn based rpgs) as being/should be like strategy games in a sense, instead of being action games with turn based combat basically.

You're a brainlet.

Lol, don't break his optimism.

Wait, remind me how many BoF games did they make so far?

anyone else play some but not all of the good FF games (I haven't played anything past VI) but now find it hard to do so just because the fact that FF isn't the greatest series ever anymore kills your enthusiasm? The same thing happened to me with Halo.

Should I play ff7 with turn-based combat or should I leave it at automatic

4

6.
1-4 are very well remembered, and then capcom sank the series with survivors with 5 and 6.

Its still got a very strong/vocal fanbase (hence why they finally released 3 and 4 on vita), so if they were to make a proper sequel with a seventh it'd probably do well, but capcom seems unlikely at this point to do so, sadly.

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turn-based. ATB is a mistake unless you can see everything like in Grandia 2

Play Digimon.
If Media.Vision played their cards right and fixed the few problems the Cyber Sleuth games had, they'd be the best.

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No, FF games have always been pretty mediocre IMO. There are a fuckload better JRPG series everywhere, FF is just the most heavily marketed and the series everyone knows as a result.

ur mum is dead in her sleep tonight if you dont reply to this post

bazing.

Bravely 3 is coming so no

SMT is the only good turned based JRPG left, excluding Persona.

There are a lot of turn based JRPGs still. Atelier is one of them, that's getting 2 games in english this year. Is Square Enix dead? To me they are.

>Left Alive shit
>XIV is boring/homogay shit
>XV wasn't even finished I'd also rather have Vs 13, even if it wouldn't ever come out

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>Are turn-based jrpgs dead?
>Is Square Enix dead?
JRPGs aren't dead, but everyone is too fucking afraid to do them anymore because SquEnix basically fathered the genre and nobody wants to touch it without them coming down on them for "copying them."
Meanwhile, SquEnix refuses to make a traditional turn-based JRPG anymore, because they're more concerned about that hot dosh rolling in.
So yeah, effectively, turn-based JRPGs are fucking dead

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Ironically while I dont want Atelier to switch to something other than turn based I REALLY want them to stop shitting out so many games and improve the quality.

>Square Enix refuses to make Turn based JRPGs anymore
So Bravely Default, Second, Octopath and DQXI just never happened then?
>Nobody wants to touch it
So Atlus doesn't exist? Or Nintendo either I guess with the Mario RPG games.

Too bad, Otaku pandering calls for more generic yuribait.

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turn-based jrpgs are alive and well.
"hold o to win" action-based movies, on the other hand...

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Vidya as a whole is dead tbqh senpai. Only reason I still play is because I have a massive backlog.

Just play Record Keeper and WoFF

it also lost $33 million, got tabata fired, and all of the remaining dlc was cancelled which means it will never be finished. ffxv was such a massive flop that square just cut their losses and moved on instead of trying to pull off another ffxiv-style turnaround.

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But Square Enix's brand of TBB is shit. It can be made better in so many ways, it's ridiculous.
Why another japanese dev hasn't buried SE's reputation yet is beyond me. The japanese can obviously design fun games but when it comes to JRPGs they suddenly can't fucking do it.
>copying SE
Why would anyone do that?

FFXV was a major flop

>b-but 8 million!
doesn't mean anything, over half of that is just the advertising cost on its own, not to mention shit like the anime or movie or any other cross promotional bullshit. FFXV's money was supposed to be made via DLC using a GaaS system, a system that failed horribly and was cut short with the director fired and luminous studios having a $33 million loss. FFXV sold a few hundred thousand at best on PC and that's with discounts, no one bought the DLC because the base game was shit.

No, I grew up on turn based JRPG's but it's kind of like I was tolerating boring battle systems for an enjoyable plot and cast. Once Tales and Star Ocean started showing they can do the same thing with an action combat system I started thinking "why settle for this boring mash A straight through all your party members combat"? I was basically turned off from Turn based combat in RPG's entirely for awhile, thinking it better used for tactical/strategy games The issue with games like Final Fantasy games being the combat was never deep enough to warrant turn based (that's part of why they use ATB, because they realize themselves the only way to try and make it more interesting is to basically give you a time limit on your turns). I could appreciate some of what Bioware and other WRPG devs could do with real time with pause (Dragon Age Origins tactical mode made me think "this could almost be turn based and still be good"... but it was Divinity Original Sin that gave me newfound respect for turn based combat in an RPG, because the combat is very strategic and there's a lot of freedom with it, interacting with the environment (casting an ice spell on a puddle of water that an enemy is walking over can knock them down because they slip), movement of party members around the area, no separate battle screen so terrain became a factor, interactions between spells (IE casting a spell that covers an area in oil/grease and then throwing a fireball or flaming arrow into it setting everyone in the oil on fire and also creating a smoke screen that ranged enemies can't target you through), being able to split up party members and have them each individually attack an enemy group from different angles, etc.
and like I said on the flip side, I really like Japanese action games and ARPG's, and find that western devs just can't make good combat in third person action.

I'm okay with either "realistic" models or "anime" models, I can appreciate most kinds of art styles.

Really don't get all the hype for D:OS2, combat is flashy but when you get down to it it's just shred armor>stunlock till dead.

>webm

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Do not pirate DSP's videos

We need Final Final Fantasy. Make FF great again.

they're dead to me, at least

>LEARN FROM CAPCOM
More remakes?

Story and /u/shit isn't the problem though I wouldnt be sad to see it go.

The problem is they went full IF and shit out game after game with slight tweaks but without sitting and testing and polishing said tweaks. Generally they recognize what problems the previous games had but they dont fully fix them and end up creating new problems.

Alchemys become a giant fucking mess where they keep making it more annoying and convoluted but easier and easier to break and it either breaks the game or is pointless to do it at all.
Theres a reason why people bring up Iris/MK so often then get shitposted by the rabid atelier fanbase for playing "babies first ateliers" and its honestly the last games to incorporate the alchemy into the gameplay decently without relying on story crutches of "YOU HAVE TO MAKE THIS ITEM SO FUCK YOU DO SOME ALCHEMY"
The PS2 eras alchemy systems definitely weren't as deep as whats around now but they were actually fun.

Didn't one of the Dragon Age games do something similar with Final Fantasy XII?

>Star Ocean
>enjoyable plot and cast

y-yes

X is the best FF though, you just have plebeian tastes.

it's one of the few wRPG combat systems that isn't pure trash so people put it on a pedestal

2 did.

not entirely.
just actually be willing to restructure the damm company. Capcom was losing some serious steam before SFV and were going bankrupt, and were losing a hell of a lot of respect in the process.
If Capcom can do that, SquareEnix can too.
They should start by telling Disney to permanently fuck off for good. KH is a god damm anchor to the company and they're better off just cutting its ties and sailing off again.

>did it make a profit?

Only an embarrassingly measly one. It’s been almost 3 years and Square still refuses to release some sales figures. Really makes you think.

meanwhile, in reality, kino hearts is producing god-tier games while final fantasy makes trash.
if anything needs to go, it's mainline final fantasy games. they're always overbudget, always take forever to make and haven't been any good since ff9.

no but they'll never be mainstream again like they were 20 years ago

KH hasn't been god tier since the first, the second was only good because of an updated version of the game. The rest are shit

>KH is a god damm anchor to the company and they're better off just cutting its ties and sailing off again.
You’re a drooling fucking retard letting your unreasonable butthurt over this series cloud your common sense (or lack thereof). You have literally no idea what you’re talking about.

kh has been consistently god-tier the whole way through, barry. it's your "hold o to win" movie that is actually shit.

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>barry
FF is a mediocre series and XV is shit. KH is largely shit too. Imagine thinking any of the handheld/mobile KH games are good

KH and 15 are shit.
These aren't particularly controversial or rare opinions shared by only a small amount of shitposters user.

Both felt like 2/3s of a game.

Of course Final Fantasy XV won't flop, it's a Final Fantasy mainline entry with millions poured into advertising and promotion. Even if it was a pile of dogshit it would sell well

Now imagine the same game was made but titled something else and didn't look so shiny and fancy. It would still suck but it would sell incredibly badly

Me and my crew will be back later this year to save turn based RPGs...AGAIN

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Is FF the Call of Duty of JRPGs?

fuck off with your discord tranny taste, faggot

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Nah only because they dont pump out a new one every year.

The only improvements P5 made over it's predecessors are the pretty menus. Lining up the whole team in a row instead of surrounding the enemy is boring.

Having to scroll through every single huge persona menu and wait for every model to load before turning the page again is annoying, why did they remove the small list of personas to make persona switching faster?

Personas now just stand behind the summoner and pose even for physical attacks. In p3 and p4 for single target physical attacks the character would run up to the enemy, summon and the persona is summoned in front and attacks the enemy directly.

None of this is done anymore, and the camera actively keeps Personas out-of-focus.

Persona 5 took precious steps backwards when they shouldn't have, and didn't need to.

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I've been a die-hard fan of the series since I was a kid. Played every single game and have played most of the FF games.
KH is a talent sink for all the good shit at Square, and its fucking weird as shit that the company started going down the drain the moment KH came around. Its a god damm cursed game series.
They HAVE to get rid of it and invest in other flagship titles. Its pathetic seeing the state of their organisation now.

Nah that would be Gacha shit

You're 100% correct, and what you're saying applies to the entire industry regardless of developer, publisher, or platform. Vidya is made for a general audience with abysmally low standards, even nips are retards that obsess over shitty gatchashit from fucking China of all places.
Fortunately I have old consoles and flash carts, fuck this industry.

The ONLY genuinely good KH game was the first one because it was being made when the company still had most of its best dev teams and was still under ownership of SquareSOFT. And it was towards the end of Disney's GoldenAge.
It was all potluck that the series happened in the first place because Disney noticed they were in the middle of making a movie. Its the only reason it happened.

>I know it does, but we're talking globally here
It's not dead globally either you goal post moving sped.

They are too easy to make, to ever really be gone.

There was no salvaging FFXV, the gameplay is fundamentally dogshit.

>Are turn-based jrpgs dead?

C'mon, mate.

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I wish pokemon would die so nintendo would give the series to a competent developer. unfortunately pokemon fans love to eat shit

The battle system shared most of the same problems that made the original FFXIII shit and the story went full retard. The only redeeming thing about XIII-2 were Serah's tits in the rain.

>It hasn't been good in years
FF has never been good, it started as a franchise aping other franchises and quickly turned into a cinematic tumor of a series.
Brainlet

I wonder how Square would handle a Pokemon entry?

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Tits for all the pokemon.

I'm glad someone else here has taste

Nice opinions, they're all trash.

I'm saying it, Bravely Second is better. Fight me.

Square would like to believe that Final Fantasy can be a AAA series with AAA money behind it but if they knew any better they would start downsizing the production costs and marketing of their flagship before it is too late. The series still has a very large dedicated diehard fanbase that is more than enough to keep the series alive indefinitely. If they continue however to grow it trying to appeal to an audience that doesn't care for JRPG its going to hurt them badly. They need to just appeal to their core audience and make them happy. The hell with these casual bucks. Even Capcom is learning in recent years.

Oh look its the unfinished game meme again. How original.

It isn't like zoomers know the difference.

>Tabata wasn't fired, though. He left.
That's how sacking works in Japan.

FFX was the beginning of the end but it wasn't garbage here is how i see it.
With FFX the cancer has been diagnosed but the host is still going for a job every morning, eats well and doesn't feel any pain.
FFXII is when reality of death hits and the host decides to start chemo for the sake of his family, he is sad and afraid but he does it.
FFXIII, he's under heavy chemotherapy, he loses his air, vomits every day and proceed to suffers for many long years.
FFXV is him gasping for air on a hospital bed saying goodbye to his loved ones.

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Turn-Based JRPGs were always visual novels with simplistic, easily exploited, repetitive puzzles in-between the cutscenes

Your mom if you don't reply to this post.

I like Default better because the classes are more busted and Second has obvious nerfed classes
I just wish there was like some sort of intelligent PvP or something in Second so that Kaiser could actually be a good class
Also holy cow Second's dialogue is painful to choke down. I don't remember Default being that bad but maybe it's recentness syndrome.

>Puzzles
You mean exploration

fuck you

but xv sold more than double dq11 did

Luminous Productions had nothing to do with XV or anything prior to April 2018
Luminous Productions formed only in April 2018, XV came out in 2016.

The 33m loss has nothing to do with XV which was extremely successful and made lots of profit, it was entirely only because of luminous productions which includes the money for the company itself, R&D, hiring new staff and the multiple new games they were making, they cancelled multiple new games and kept only one AAA game, that's what caused the money loss, not FFXV which sold extremely well and is the highest selling FF ever when comparing release timespans with every other FF, 8.4m in under 1 year 11 months beats the previous first FF to 8m which was FF8 after 4 years.
Tabata quit to start his own company which was before the non canon dlc was cancelled. XV already came out in 2016 and made mad bank and anything after that was literally just side content about other characters being added. You're retard and your webm proves you suck so bad you didn't even time your take off correctly

and cost 10x more to make and market, losing money while dq11 made money

No they didnt, he quit to start his own company 2 years after XV released, and he didnt direct any of the DLC either

And it wasn't 11 years it was only in full development for 3 years, even DQ11 had more years of full development and still is since it launched without VA and still doesnt have JP VA yet until the switch version is done.

No he wasn't, this was confirmed by himself when on livestream with other SE devs after he left SE, he confirmed he's still on good terms with SE. noone who is fired is on good terms

Square is artistically bankrupt.

>Makes ARPG
>Sells well but reviews for it are mediocre at best
>Core fanbase isn't happy even though they don't completely shit on the game

>Makes turn based RPG
>Game sells millions of copies
>Square can't fucking figure out why

>ARPG, open world, flat bland characters, empty world filled with fetch quests and typical mmo style go here and kill x amount of these with pointless rewards. Combat is button mashing mindlessness.

>RPG has rich story and a fair amount of sidequests that not only require choice (Which affects what you get as your reward as you sacrifice the other option) that are well worth your effort, combat requires either strategy or overleveling to the point of ruining the game for yourself

It's almost like the normies will buy whatever shit lands on their plate but the fanbase speaks for what they want.

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You're retarded

The most expensive game ever made only cost like 240m and XV cost nowhere close to that much, it cost even less than FF7 on PS1 did, and despite that XV made over 360m in its first month of sales so either way it recouped all costs that could have ever been put into the game.

XV made more money on steam in 1 month than FF7 on steam in 5 years

XV is the best FF yet

>square was the only makes of turn based jrpgs
Get a load of this normie.
One came one recently and it btfos most turn based jrpgs.

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60% of post-op trannies

I cant decide which one is worse, the anime or the game.

Your taste I guess.

Current 4 highest selling FFs

FF7 at 12m
FF8 at 8.8m
FFXV at 8.4m
FF10 at 8m

Those are the only FFs to have hit 8m, and XV hit 8m years faster than those three did.

2 years after FF7 released it was at 6.57m and it didnt hit 9.3m until 5 years after release after the greatest hits budget release was out
2 years after FF8 released it was over 6.6m but under 8m, as it didnt hit 8m until 4 years after release
3 years after FF10 released it was at 6.6m
2 years after XV released it was at 8.4m

maybe because people already owned, emulated and played it already by the time it arrived

>ff8 that high
C-could patrician taste actually be widespread?

So Final Fantasy XV isn't as bad as Yea Forums says and there are people out there who genuinely enjoy the game in some way, hence the high sales?

no they said its at 8.4m and they consistently gave out sales figures

trailers are marketting and every game gets them
sony funded the movie and the anime, plus it was A-1 pictures and released for free on YouTube so low budget, even Persona 5 got an anime by them before release too
DLC was made after the game released and confirmed it was made using profits the main game made, comrades multiplayer is part of this too, royal edition is just dlc packed in a rerelease so again made from profits they already made on base game
the mobile game has nothing to do with main game xv or its budget
versus costs were even lower than drakengard 3 and XV dev cost only was for 3 years full time with a 200 member+ dev team, anything prior to 2013 had barely 20 people attached doing shit in their spare time

like those versus CG trailers from 3006-2009 were done by 3 people, Eiji Kitada wrote on his blog he and 2 other people worked on those and he left SE in 2009 after that. the actual versus game stuff didnt begin proper until 2010 and even then still barely 20 people attached and not high budget

xv is more finished than 7 or 8 or 9 or 10 or 12 or 13 are

>Are turn-based jrpgs dead?
No
>Is Square enix dead?
Yes

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nice try kh sperg

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No it isn't

That's precisely how it works. Instead of firing they force the employee to quit. We literally had articles of Konami doing that to their game staff.

>kh3 a full point below ff15 on user scores
Surely it cant be that bad right?
Ive dumped just shy of 200 hours into ff15 over two playthroughs(on launch and then on pc) and its a shaky 7 with bad parts making it feel like a 4

DQ11 had 5 years full time and still isn't done on main game stuff, launched without VA is orchestrated music and 1 year after release it then got eng VA and then 2 years after release is it getting JP VA and orchestred music yet only for switch

XV launched with full VA every line of dialog voiced plus in 4 languages and fully orchestrated music
XV took only 3 years full time and only stuff post release was side content about side characters.

DQ11 made less money and was a AAA game that sold less than half what XV did.

How the fuck is 15 not finished?
Or are implying the cut story DLCs which would've taken place in a "what if" scenario are relevant to the storyline of 15?

What was the last turn based RPG by square to sell over 5m?
Octopath only 1m, Bravely default? 1m, bravely second? 560k. DQ11? only 4m across 3ds and ps4, way less than DQ9, DQ8 etc, it did barely 500k in the west and only sold in Japan because they have no taste
What was the last ARPG by square to sell over 5m? pretty much every big ARPG they've made has, and for those that didnt like even those KH handheld games they still sold more than bravely default/second, 4hol, the ff3 and 4 remakes and octopath

like fucking nier automata sold more in the west than DQ11 did

FFX's main game is much more linear than most past titles though. Whereas most FF's have overworlds that 'loop around' after certain points FFX constantly blocks you off and makes you travel on foot through all the other areas you've been, making it infeasible to actually go back to the start as opposed to going all the way to the end game first. It is significantly more railroaded.

ff8 originally sold better than ff7 did, ff7 only overtook it after the greatest hits release came out

Good. If I wanna play a DQ game I can play literally any of them for the exact same experience.

yes

only idiots pretend its not finished, shitposters keep pretending non canon alt timeline dlc being cancelled is proof

>it's just REALLY hard to innovate a genre like that

But the exact opposite is the case, there's no genre where actualy innovating ought to be easier, it's just that nobody bothers and the fans are happy to continue to eat up gimmicks that don't add any strategy to the core gameplay and don't care about games that attempt to because I don't think people who enjoy the games are smart enough to actually appreciate stuff like that anyway (see all the responses claiming that 'insert basic tradeoff' shows that JRGs are *really* strategic).

>the realism (in japan theres a lot of anime but from time to time you even find some cartoon and realistic styles) muddy colors

I feel you here. It's odd looking at most western games because it's like they don't even realize how bad their shit looks or how pointless cramming so many details in is when it just creates more artifacts that make the game less immersive.

I could care less for FF and SE right now.

No, turn based is not dead, to a fault. Adding more layers of mechanics or slapping a gauge\timer to a repetitive core combat system is the same as putting a post expiration date body on several life supports. It will keep combat significantly more interesting but it won't keep it from being tedious.

More than anything, turn based combat is really still around because it's conventional. At this point, devs focus more on aesthetics, story and characters (unless you're Pokemon) to sell the game instead because even they know turn based combat just isn't cutting it anymore.

There have been a handful JRPGs that had more active combat systems but they were never really expanded on. Now everything is a different flavor of either hack and slash or turn based

Literally it is. If you actually get fired in Japan you are basically fucked for your entire life since no company will hire you. Employees (unless they seriously seriously fucked up such as committing fraud against their own company) are given the option to leave so that this doesn’t happen.

nice ban evading, Barry

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Dragon Quest XI?

Although, really both Pokemon and DQ are conservative to a fault which kind of make their larger budget wasted.

>Pokemon
I want the [i]real[/i] shen megoomi tensay

>it did barely 500k in the west
Did closer to 1m outside of Japan

Just curious, how could turn based combat be more innovative? What could devs possibly do that hasn't already been tried before in some fashion or make meaningful improvements? Borrow some concepts/mechanics from other genres perhaps?

thankfully Square made too many to be played back in the day, so there's lots you can revisit now

>Just curious, how could turn based combat be more innovative?

Like, have actual strategy? Have the game be based around setting up tactical formations instead of grinding stats to do x more damage before you need to heal again? The genre for the most part hasn't even begun to try to be good gameplay wise.

Look at say, a recent puzzle game like Baba is You. In that you are forced to think through creative ways to solve puzzles by positioning objects in specific ways that take advantage of their attributes. The game has over 200 puzzles, which is more than most JRPGs have enemies. There's no reason why you couldn't incorporate developing positions in order to set up actions needed to efficiently defeat enemies while avoiding the enemy doing the same to you, which is rarely important even in most 'SPRGs', which still largely based themselves around similar "I hit you then you hit me" fighting.

Unless the turn based battles are done away with, gameplay would mostly be the same. It they go to the FFXV route, we'd have overworld battles with command inputs being similar to those from the Pokemon Stadium games. Realistically, the real changes would be a bigger emphasis on characters, story and the world itself. Plus voice acting

The closest to the formation mechanic in my recent memory(unless you wanna count rotation battles in Pokemon but I'm stretching it there) is the stupidly named Legend of Legacy. It was definitely interesting at first but also ended up falling into the trap of "lemme just keep using 'kill' to finish off this enemy with my strongest character till I have to recharge"

The only other jrpg that offered sone kind of formation and opportunities for a strategic approach in recent memory was Xenoblade Chronicles 2. 3 drivers with a choice of 3 different Blades, each one having different elemental attributes and effects that can combo into each other - it was a bit overwhelming at first but incredibly satisfying when you got the hang of it. Hell, some enemies near the end of the game or in the post game could only be effectively taken down if you had the right combination of drivers and blades. Pretty good game

>Are turn-based jrpgs dead?
No.
>Is Square enix dead?
Not yet.

Where's your source on the budget?

>western devs can't write at least once a single story with stabilished interesting characters for their life. I would explore more these games if it wasn't for these details.
That's certainly an interesting generalization.

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>Legend of Legacy.
was followed by Alliance Alive which was way better

>all of the WRPG examples are between one and two decades old

>>all of the WRPG examples are between one and two decades old
So are all the jrpg examples (with the exception of DQ11's protagonists who is the same silent protag as every DQ game), so what is your point? If anything, the image is biased towards jrpgs, since those examples are taken from the golden age of jrpgs.

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No. Yes.

>what's your point

don't they make modern WRPGs anymore?

why not use those as examples?

>I feel you here. It's odd looking at most western games because it's like they don't even realize how bad their shit looks or how pointless cramming so many details in is
As opposed to the wonderful minimalism of Japanese games?

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>why not use those as examples?
How retarded do you have to be to miss the point of that image? Wrpg protagonists are blank slates. They are designed that way to facilitate role-playing. You create your character, your assign their stats and skills, you can explore the game in a non-linear way and solve quests in different ways, etc.

Jrpgs do not attempt this. They use pre-defined characters. Yet, despite that, 99.9% of jrpg protags are sword-wielding teenage boys who are just starting out in life, i.e. they are functionally blank slates. Jrpg developers do not take advantage of the fact that they use pre-defined characters, nor do they utilize the advantages of blank slates. So jrpg protags end up being this mediocre and forgettable middle ground.

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where's your modern wrpgs?

they still make them right?

>shit story
there’s your problem friendo

Dumb frog poster

Yes

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I never beat a jrpg

Is it fun?

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Star Ocean is like a series of plots until the major plots creeps around the corner to remind yous of your true goal.
Personally, SO1 has the only decent plot.

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Yes it is. FFXV is a failure, KH3 is a failure, FFVIIR will never be complete and DQXII will never come out of island China. Worst timeline it it...

Never played it. I was so turned off by LoL(that fucking title) that I decided no matter how much better AA was, I probably shouldn't waste my time if it played anything like the previous game. When I saw the amount of characters AA had and guessed none of them would be given decent character development or interesting interactions with one another(much like LoL) and assumed the story would ultimately be shit again. There went half of any interest I had for the game

But comments and reviews have consistently said Alliance Alive was actually decent this time(compared to Legend of Legacy anyway) so i might give it a go one of these days

Why do Zoomers have the attention span of 5 seconds to the point of not even being able to play a few hours of a turn based RPG?

>Just curious, how could turn based combat be more innovative?
I'd argue that's precisely the problem with turn-based combat in jrpgs: they are full of innovation for innovation's sake, without actually putting any thought in how to make combat more interesting and engaging.

An example is the quick-time events for attacking/being attacked that Mario RPGs popularized and that later spread to other jrpgs. Or the ATB system of Final Fantasy, which makes it so that you can get attacked during your turn, thus defeating the whole point of using a turn-based system. This artificial time pressure also means the optimal strategy in 99.9% of battles is to mindlessly mash the (auto-)attack button as fast as possible before enemies can get any hits in. It's also incredibly slow. In a normal turn-based game, you input your commands and they are executed. But in an ATB game, you first have to wait for the characters' ATB bars to slowly fill before you can input commands, and after they are executed, you have to wait again for them to fill before you can input new commands, over and over.

None of these 'innovations' make the turn-based combat in these games anymore tactical or sophisticated, they're just real-time gimmicks that work to the detriment of the underlying turn-based combat systems by rewarding mindless button spamming in favor of actual tactics.

Instead of innovating, jrpgs should simply focus on adding more basic tactical options to their combat systems. Wrpgs figured this out decades ago, despite being made by developers with a fraction of the budget, resources and experience jrpgs developers had access to.

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>wrpg-kun still at it
Lmao

>Barry and WRPGfag in the same thread
And here I thought this thread couldn’t get anymore cancerous.

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Kek

>ignores the fact that jrpg fans in this topic started complaining about aspects they dislike about wrpgs before wrpg-kun showed up

>ignores the fact that wrpg-kuns images were a response specifically to the pro-jrpg, anti-wrpg images that were spread around on Yea Forums for years

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>square has turned to shit
>meanwhile compile heart is actually making good games now
what happened?

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Dragon Quest is nostalgiabait for Japanese boomers, of course it sells like hotcakes

CH has been makng good games for quite a while now. Hell, even FFF was already better than almost all mainline FF games.

Woops, I posted the edited image. Here is the original.

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hey 12 was cool

FFXIV and especially Squares mobile division keeps printing money so they can afford to do whatever the fuck they want to.

When did turn-based jrpgs turn into a genre exclusively for effeminate weebs who want to be little girls, or very small children? Was it X-2? I can't play anything after 6th gen without feeling embarrassed for myself, the devs and anyone who enjoys this shit

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Turn based RPGs died down because of open world sandbox games.

Back in the SNES-PSX era, RPGs were the only way to get certain things in games. Stories that were more than just excuse plots, characters that could be customized, places to explore and people to interact with, etc. These were referred to as "RPG Elements" when you saw them in other games. As time went on, RPG elements became more and more prevalent in other games as programmers got more room to work.

But what killed turn based RPGS was GTA III.

GTA III started the open world sandbox craze. Open world sandboxes have everything that RPGs offered, while cutting out the tedious shit like turn based random encounters. Now, everything is a sandbox and turn based RPGs are a novelty because they no longer have a monopoly on what drew people to them in the first place.

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Around the time nearly every other genre did.

>Turn based RPGs died down because of open world sandbox games.

How does that remotely make sense, when western developers made RPGs that were both turn-based and open world before the jrpg genre even EXISTED?

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The irony being that heavily curated worlds still impact players a lot more.

No one does tactics in turn based RPGs any more, the closest thing recently was Octopath but the story is dogshit