>murdered countless people in the third game for power
>selfishly threw himself to hell
>killed countless as urizen
>gives no fucks about his son
why does his fanbase try so hard to make this asshole sympathetic?
Murdered countless people in the third game for power
Thomas Morris
Nolan Ward
because he's cool
Charles Gray
I want him to dominate me and call me foolish.
Landon Adams
>all that
>still loses
Jackpot
Carson Watson
It's the same people who try and make this character sympathetic.
Nathaniel Jones
but we like him because he's an asshole
and both you and vergil have autism bro
Gavin Williams
Because he just wants more power, and the ends justify the means in this case
John Butler
He was cool until he gained abandonment issues and an inferiority complex to Dante like DmC Vergin. Literally made the story weaker because they made it the central plot point.
Nolan Phillips
>Spent a whole game trying to obtain the power of Sparda
>Dante's the one who obtains it instead
>Lost to Dante three fucking times
>Dante obtains more and more power while Vergil just deteriorates, even though Dante never really wanted power to begin with
>Even after he gets his hand on the demon fruit, Dante completely thrashes him
Aiden Price
honestly the story should've ended with vergil being defeated once and for all and V getting separated from him
Hudson Davis
Vergil was still probably blaming Dante for fucking up his plans in DMC3.
Jaxon Lee
Nothing pointed to that. Vergil voluntarily went to the Underworld because he accepted defeat. It doesn't make sense that Vergil would be salty about DMC1 since he was mind controlled by Mundus. They could've made the story about Vergil purely wanting more power that feeds into Vergil wanting Dante to prove him wrong if gaining all that power was worth it. It continues from 3 without feeling forced. This even helps since V could've considered an influece on his view. It's fucking no brainer but they had to put the DmC in there.
Jordan Rivera
V mentioned "suffering defeat after defeat". The fact that he keeps losing to Dante was his primary motivator.
Julian Jackson
and the best part is that he gets away with it relatively scot free
Landon Collins
>open Spotify
>Devil Trigger
>three times over
>then return to the emo rap that I normally like
It's like my morning coffee at the moment, this song is so fucking hype. I hated getting through DMD but God damn if having this shit on blast for minutes at a time wasn't a reward in itself
That would have been kino but you know half the fanbase would have lost their fucking minds and DMC5 wasn't the time to take risks. It was always clear they were going to play the story as safe as possible. The irony of Vergil being completely depowered is a great idea and would have made him sympathetic (plus he could have been the one to cry at the end, with Dante taking him in to keep him safe as the ultimate blow to his pride)
V and Urizen both tangentially offer motives of you search for them, but nothing is really clearly explained by Vergil. They should have brought him back earlier so the game had more time to show us how the split and re-emerge affected him, and to outright show how much he remembered from them
Ayden Anderson
That doesn't make sense with his prior characterization. This is the guy that didn't attack while Dante has his back turned in 1 even though he was mind controlled. Why is he so pathetic for the wrong reasons?
Thomas Wood
Poor vergil. Defeated by his little brother defeated by mundus, defeated by dante again, defeated by who knows what else, and finally defeated by his own son. Guy can't catch a break.
Juan Parker
He wants an honorable duel, hence why he waited until Dante healed his wounds for their clash. That part stayed.
But Vergil is a guy who wants more power. He wants to become stronger. And losing constantly is the ultimate sign of weakness for him. Because he lost to Dante in DMC3, then he lost to Mundus, then he lost to Dante twice in DMC1. Even if he was brainwashed in DMC1, he was still stronger than he'd ever been and he still lost. He keeps losing. I mean, it makes sense in the context of DMC3 Vergil. Someone who's that obsessed with power, with getting stronger, would never take a constant string of losses lying down. That's why he severed his demon half from his human half, because he believed his human half was the reason for his weakness. He cut away everything that, to him, made him weak, in a last ditch attempt to finally beat Dante. But losing that humanity kinda destroyed much of his personality and core motivation, so that's why Urizen acted the way he did.
Wyatt Peterson
Sympathetic? You think a character can only be likable or intriguing if he's 'likable'? Maybe you also want to know why he isn't 'relatable.'
Carson Hughes
>>selfishly threw himself to hell
He wasn't being selfish, he was trying to make sure no other crazy power-obsessed people would get his half of the amulet
Mason Wilson
Urizen was his usual megalomaniac. V said it was because Vergil was salty about losing to Dante but Vergil never cared. Power is everything to him. It's Armstrong's philosophy from MGR. Losing to Dante proved that Dante was correct to Vergil. Vergil talking about switching fates feel shallow since there is no reason for Vergil to feel abandoned since feeling abandoned implies that Vergil never saw Eva die which means Vergil never needed power othan to survive. 5 makes his portrayal in 3 pathetic ans unnecessary. It's DmC influence that results in a shallow Dante vs Vergil fight with no idiological difference. Dante vs Urizen had one.
Benjamin Jones
he's likable as a villain because he's good at being one. he shouldn't be morally likable because of his actions.
Jaxson Evans
V is Vergil, you nincompoop. He'd know better than you.
Hunter Perez
V also came from 5. The game I am claiming to have retconned Vergil's implied motivation. This affects his portrayal in 3 if it's accurate. If V is Vergil, Then can we stop saying Urizen isn't Vergil. I didn't even know you can make an earlier game in your franchise worse in retrospect. Bingo must have really gotten lucky with DMC3's story.
Jordan White
I never understood this, Was Virgil responsible for the tree, was he controlling it? Or was he just using its natural function to make himself stronger?
Alexander Phillips
>V said it was because Vergil was salty about losing to Dante but Vergil never cared
This is what I mean though. If Vergil had come back earlier then the game could have explored how much of V was still in Vergil, instead of some people assuming there's almost nothing and others assuming it's all there behind some Urizen outer layer of power and strength
Sebastian Torres
>DMC5 wasn't the time to take risks
>Took out Nero's Devil Bringer and changed it for the Devil Breakers
>Brought in Majin DTs as Sin DTs, for both Vergil and Dante
>Nero gets his own DT
>Removed Rebellion and DSP so that Dante could get his own badass sword
I agree that they wouldn't/shouldn't do something bat shit crazy like that but that's a shitty excuse senpai.
Nathaniel Scott
This game made risks. Just not in the right areas. It's like they looked at the game and decided to go the complete opposite direction of what would make a memorable game. Story? Fanservice. Character moveset? Limit it. Level design? Straight hallways. Enemies? Make them useless. I'm really disappointed since I really expected better from a comeback.
Xavier Richardson
None of that sounds like risks, not even the devil breakers since we get the devil bringer at the end anywyas
Isaiah Carter
The tree comes regardless, all Virgin did was eat the fruit. Someone else would have done it if he didn't.
Henry Johnson
Learn what 'retcon' means, dipshit. Vergil having a different motivation in 5 isn't a retcon just because his motivation in 3 was different. You're completely neglecting any and all context and just brushing it all with the broadest of strokes. In 3, Dante had never defeated Vergil up to that point, and after he did, there was a 20 year gap between the end of 3 and his return in 5. During that time, he was mindfucked by Moondust and made into a slave, after which he lost to Dante again. 2 decades, enslavement and consistent losses to the same person should be plenty enough to make someone change their perspective on some things.
Nathaniel Thompson
Daily reminder that Vergil IS NOT responsible for Urizen actions
Wyatt Morris
because we're motivated
Nolan White
Except having abandonment issues is a retcon. He never had it in any of his prior dialogue in the series. This is also what Vergil said caused the change in him into being who he is instead of being like Dante. It's pathetic coming from the main antagonist. This isn't even as good as Old Baldr's motivation in Bayonetta 2. You're forcing a motivation on a character just so you can get a Dante and Vergil fight. What's the ideological difference? Nothing. Vergil just wants to fight because the game wants to hammer in the "getting power from outside yourself is bad" theme. 3 also had that but it was in the background. The main theme of 3 is familial responsibility. You know who has abandonment issues and inferiority complex? Vergin from Vergin's downfall. Somebody that was called to be extremely edgy, insecure and pathetic.
Juan Sanchez
vergil is an autistic retard
literally did nothing good in his life except spawn based Nero
he should've died in DMC5
Asher Parker
>Character moveset? Limit it
elaborate
Luis Lewis
Die, Vujo
Isaiah Martin
Anyone have the edit of defeated Trish craving for a borgar?
Matthew Ward
Devil Breakers limitation. Granted they were too powerful without the limitation. Just tweak it and make the enemies have good aggression and a good moveset to compensate.
Nolan Butler
Bringing him back only to kill him again in the same game is pretty fucking retarded
Juan Thomas
>This is also what Vergil said caused the change in him into being who he is instead of being like Dante
Not that user, but I don't recall Vergil ever saying that, either as himself or V. All V said was that Vergil had suffered "defeat after defeat" and was also dying, so he had two motivators for splitting himself in two; one to live, and two to defeat Dante. To Nero he just said he wanted to be protected and loved as a kid, but obviously the attack on their home forced him to take a different path for the sake of survival.
The abandonment thing was not a primary reason for their rivalry; it's just the fact that they're brothers and that's all they ever do. Even the very first game implied as much. Maybe I'm missing something, though, in which case, feel free to point it out.
Owen Sanchez
Before the final fights, He talks about switching fates. He wondered if he would be better if his mother found him instead of Dante.
Henry Miller
He didn't kill anyone in either game. In 3 he was manipulated and events were instigated by Arkham, while in 5 Urizen is his own being individual from Vergil.
Thomas Reed
I remember that scen, but I still don't see how what Vergil said connotes to having abandonment issues, though. He could have asked that question to himself in 3 and it still would have made sense, since they did lead very different lives in the years between the attack and 3.
Dante did talk about Vergil thinking Eva left him behind before his final fight with Urizen, so it could well be a factor, but I don't think it's a high priority to Vergil in comparison to his desire to defeat Dante out of sheer brotherly rivalry and his general thirst for power.
John Gomez
Dante's dialogue to Urizen also implies that it affected him. This makes the change of why the brothers who they are shallow. Before it was about how twin brothers react to a loss. Now it's about how twin brothers are different since one was found and protected while the other wasn't. This makes their change due extremely external occurences. Vergil didn't become who he is because he thought he wasn't strong enough to defend Eva. Dante didn't become who he is because he thought his father wasn't able to protect them. They became who they are because Eva found Dante and not Vergil.
Matthew Scott
yeah...sorry
Dominic Murphy
It's almost like people like villains
Elijah Wright
>Before it was about how twin brothers react to a loss. Now it's about how twin brothers are different since one was found and protected while the other wasn't. This makes their change due extremely external occurences.
No, it isn't really different from how it was before. The whole point in 3 was that Dante and Vergil were at their core the same, and over time slight differences in their experiences grew until they had drastic outward differences.
ign.com
And it's still how they reacted to loss, but their differences in perspective from that incident affected that reaction.
youtube.com
en.wikipedia.org
Eli Walker
>This makes the change of why the brothers who they are shallow
But they were always shallow. They never needed a reason to fight each other; that's what they've always done. Lady in 3 even says they just enjoy it, and Dante himself didn't give a fuck about anything going on and just wanted an excuse to fight Vergil again until Arkham fucked everything up.
Tyler Smith
he's my dad
Grayson James
Because of "ha ha funny memes". Same reason people like that twink fuck from Persona 5.
Levi Bennett
they enjoy it but they still have their reasons for doing so.