Do you think Nairo should main Ganondorf in Super Smash Bros Ultimate?

nigga what, Ganondorf is stronger than most of the cast. The only characters more viable than him are Ike and Pichu. The only reason top players don't main Ganon is because he's too simple.

Is Marss low-key the best Smash Ultimate player? Literally just won two big tournaments playing Zero Suit Samus.

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I don't think you know what "viable" means.

has he won a big tournament over MKLeo? that's the bar for being THE BEST

Ganon has too many flaws to be a good Solo Main, let alone that good of a character to begin with: His suspectability to various exploit in Disadvantage State ( Juggles, Combos & Edgeguards ) as well as his limited mobility & approach options render some of his matchups really not good at all. I can't imagine a Ganon main wanting to stay in if they have to fight the likes of Megaman or Olimar, or even any decent character that has potent edgeguarding. There's only so much you can do with Ganon, not helping that the character suffers from a stage list settling down & leaving him with little counterpick outside of BF & Smashville as " small " stages for him to lessen the aforementioned flaws.

he just needs to admit he was wrong about zero suit now that marss stole his soul and pick her back up, not a single character he plays feels like he really wants to play them and if he just committed to someone he would be ridiculous, ganon probably isnt that character but it is funny as hell to watch

>Ganon has too many flaws
So do Ike and Pichu? All Ike has is one great move, Pichu dies in like 2 hits. People are underestimating Ganon too much and it's annoying. If the Ganon player has as good of a neutral as his opponent, he only has to put in half the effort to win.

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how do you make a music playlist in ssbu

>Ganondorf is stronger than most of the cast
This is the only true thing you said
>who is wolf
>who is lucina
>who is peach
There are plenty of not-top-tiers like Ness that have a field day against him too.

He beat Tweek, and Tweek destroys MkLeo.

Ike has far more than just Nair & reducing his neutral game to just one move is foolish. As for Pichu, his lightweight is lessened by the fact that he's small & difficult to hit, in a game where most if not all kill moves are commitments, against a character that can punish those really well. As a result, it's actually more common to see Pichu live well past at least 100%, than see him die below that. Ganondorf's poor mobility specs & disadvantage is not a flaw that's something you can overcome that easily. It leaves Ganondorf prone to lose against zoning characters, since their reward stem from stuffing this rather slow character who honestly doesn't have that varied means of breaking past the opponent's zoning game. Let's say you manage to beat your opponent in neutral. We like to fantasize a lot about what Ganondorf CAN do to you, but what he WILL do to you in most cases will still require him to win neutral at least 2 to 3 more times a stock, sometimes more. While we have that in mind, let's also consider that Ganondorf's disadvantage is so bad that some of these characters can very easily end his stock easily through exploiting it, most prominently with early edgeguards. For these reasons, I think Ganondorf has matchups that are too difficult to be solo mained efficiently
>Rushdown characters that can beat him in neutral through more flexible approach options & better frame data while exploiting his bad Disadvantage
>Good Swordies that can space around safely around Ganondorf's admitedly pretty weak Out of Shield game while sustaining that same ease at edgeguarding or juggling him.
>Most zoners, even on the worse side of things like Villager/Isabelle, that can stuff out his approaches easily, with most even having the means of edgeguarding him as easily as the aforementioned rushdown/swordies

Im pretty sure hes beaten leo too

>If the Ganon player has as good of a neutral as his opponent, he only has to put in half the effort to win.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever read
Ganon is at a huge disadvantage in neutral, you have to be twice as good as your opponent in neutral because of your laughable frame data

his frame data isnt that bad, heavy players like to complain like everything they do is way harder but no one in the game is using smash attacks without a hard read, and everyone else gets punished harder than they do, the reason they have it "rough" is their mobility and size, not their frame data, you put ganons nair on someone who can move and it would be retarded, just like the average heavy player

You're right in that it isn't that bad, it's a huge improvement over previous smash games, but it's still significantly worse than the good characters
Playing against a good rushdown character like Fox on Ganon is like a 100-0 matchup

yes as evidenced by the best fox player in the world shitting on the best ganond- oh wait, youre always 3 good reads from ending a stock in those matchups, even if they arent fun because youre getting smothered its not that bad

Not the guy you're responding to, but even I think you're overstating how bad Ganon's neutral is, moreso against the likes of Fox. The issues lies moreso in the Disadvantage than the neutral. Ganondorf really doesn't commit that much in neutral anymore from the likes of UpAir or Nair, and if a character like Fox that practically needs to approach were to fight Ganondorf, I believe there's no definite way that Ganondorf can lose neutral consistently, given Ganondorf's spacing tools having more range being a threat even in trade situations. They do live little openings, as does the rest of his kit, that Fox can thrive on without commiting too much himself, which is why Fox still wins neutral, but Ganon in this game has it far worse in terms of matchup than Fox, who also struggles to exploit bad recoveries such as Ganon's, which doesn't help.

>Pichu dies in like 2 hits
and 90% of the cast dont have the ability to hit him with kill moves at all thanks to both his small size and his super fast hitboxes that cover his entire body that had no endlag. The only people that can take advantage of his low weight for kills are the swordies, watch any high level match with Pichu and if the other guy doesnt have a fast disjoint he is always living just as long as his opponents

Nah but Ganon should be his solid secondary whenever he's not performing well with his main. As shown in his reverse 3 stock, Ganon is a great way to psyche your opponent out.

That side-b to catch him on the platform was smart. I'm going to steal that

if he whiffed he would've been in deep shit

it covered both the normal get up and the roll in and let me tell you nobody ever and I mean EVER rolls out when they land on a platform like that.

Ganondorf will get nerfed in Patch 3.0. The order of the universe will be restored.

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Ganondorf is busted as shit. If there weren't even more broken characters available (Wolf, Ike, Yoshi, Palutena, pic related) the *taps A* caveman wizard would be slaughtering everyone else effortlessly.

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I think everyone should main Ganondorf in Ultimate
Nobody should ever play anyone else for any reason

>Ganondorf is busted as shit
stop trying to rush him down retard, you have to actually respect his buttons now and everything he has sans nair are easily punishable

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I don't lose to Ganondorf. I say he's busted because he really doesn't have to try very hard to do damage or secure a stock. Force the opponent in a shield habit, spam grabs and now you can shorthop nair to your heart's content, it's a kill move because Sakurai is a dumb ass.

Do you think you should kill yourself for watching other people play video games? Are you so much of a fucking loser you can’t play games yourself?

REMINDER

youtube.com/watch?v=Be7nXOpQGG4

1v1 me faggot

Why not both?

I'm amazed we're not seeing Ganon in Top 8s.

>the snake slayer
>beats a falco

>Ganon runs into any Palutena player
>loses
Palutena is the real reason you never see super heavies in bracket

This is literally the most hype set in competitive Ultimate so far.

I think Light only lost because he had 0 idea what to be doing against Ganon

Will he get buffed?

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All they have to do is give him character exclusive jump momentum and he is good again

literally who

that and Fox has no good tools to take advantage of Ganondorf's terrible speed

Flame choke > full hop stomp > upair > Up B
Is this a good Ganondorf combo?

That's not a combo you dumbass.

look at this lowlife, lmao

How is whiffing a spot dodge when you see the fucking ganondorf f smash coming then standing there to die pro level play

?

its not, its pro vs scrub ass commentator gameplay

smash bros doesnt have real combos unless you are playing 64 so might as well call any chain a combo

jesus christ the fucking hype

Go for downthrow nair or up airs at lower percentages. nair 1>knee is good at mid percents with most characters. Also upB out of shield, and up b to punish them for shielding too much. Once you get good, hope for buffs like the rest of us.

the mark of a smasher is using a fighting game term improperly, and to display this you used chain to explain why you call something thats not a combo, while also not knowing what a chain is, lmao

I want to ______ Ganondorf.

take a shower

>up air
why? I doubt at most percentages you would be capable of follow up, just Up Smash instead and you take the stock (possibly)

Get the fuck offline.
And stop picking Battlefield.
You people are SCUM.

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How high up in the meta rankings are Nairo and Light?

She needs a fucking nerf.
Seriously. Why does a character that has both a counter and reflect, and pretty much Zelda's recovery, need a buff of any kind.

Light lost because he's a Smash 4 kid who doesn't edgeguard.

They're both bonafied top 10 and likely top 5.

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easily top 10

Body odor general?
Body odor general.

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>stop picking battlefield
You have no skill and recycle the same 3 combos, small brained faggot.

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why does Light taunt so much?

>wanting to play Battlefield against any character that subsists off of aerial combos and kills off the top

Fox taunting is the most satisfying thing ever, stopping mid combo to go super saiyan then nailing a Usmash is the best feeling in the Ultimate

Palu's good for a number of reasons but counter is not one of them.
It doesn't make K. Rool or Mac good, and it didn't help Shulk last game either.

A practical reason would be to bait Nairo into trying to show off and doing something punishable

More likely he's just mocking Nairo for picking a Wi-Fi character

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Fox's upsmash doesn't have any impact though, it's not satisfying at all.

I main villager and only get kills off the top when my tree sprouts. Best tactic is for it to grow on the base stage anyways. You're really stupid and it's not worth explaining why. Kys

1v1 me faggot

what the fuck was his problem?

>WAAAA MARIO MIGHT UP-B ME OFF THE TOP! I NEED FINAL DESTINATION FOR MY EPIC PICHU COMBOS!!!!!!

Dumb wifi warrior. You want FD anyways you retarded dipshit.

No, you use Battlefield so you can spam with impunity. You love having these little roofs over your head on this tiny stage. You, for the most part, cannot survive your competition without this. People know how to address you but it needs to happen from behind or above you, and Battlefield is this giant maternal teat you're gobbling. Pathetic.

>Palu's good for a number of reasons but counter is not one of them.
Shut the absolute fuck up.

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not true, I play real maps like Rainbow Cruise and Halberd, I just hate battlefield on quickplay because everyone in quckplay hides under them to spam projectiles and it makes the punish window for them really tight. Only time I ever pick FD is against Ness mains

Cringe. It does come in handy for villager, but i can still play on FD. You force it because youre not good. Tell me your main. I bet it's pichu or a FE shitter, you fucking nobody

Okay that covers Pichu. How about the other 70+ characters?

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Sorry, thought you were the same guy since you both put "1v1 me faggot"

>Cringe
Make a point.
This isn't one.
>Tell me your main
Wii Fit Trainer.

Doesnt he already Main Ganon?

I am though

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Alright, the other characters who need FD also spam the same combos on stage. BF is the superior choice for real, strategic battles

Pretty sure he does main Ganondorf.
Despite Leffen wanting him not to (lol)

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Good rebuttal, scrublord. If you're complaining about counters that aren't Witch Time you're bad at the game.

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i hope not
he's consistently a massive whiny tryhard faggot
he's like the hbox of ultimate so far
plus zss is mega boring in ultimate compared to sm4sh.

He's right though, just because you're a shitter with bad habits who can't even properly fight back against an easily baited, highly commital option doesn't mean it's any good. Palutena would be so much better off with her Smash 4 Side B instead of that mishmash of Counter/Reflect that only serves to make her Reflector an actual commitment that can't be used as often.

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Then the wifi warrior insult still holds true. You play rainbow cruise? Please be bait. Please.

I've seen him taunt in many other matches

It's a reflect. AND a counter.

Fuck off to the moon. This is not a democracy. I'm right.

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>It's neutral in other Smash games so that means its Neutral and Strategic here.
I bet you don't even know the one mechanic present in every smash game that made Battlefield fun.

Based character choice. Now pick the big brain stage for your big brain character

No no dumdum. FD is not the spam stage. Battlefield is. Stop lying to yourself.
FD if anything discourages spam since there's so much elbow room to address repetitive shit. Battlefield's platforms do not give the stage MORE options, they give less. Nobody fucking fights on those things, and you know it. Stop pretending.

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Nice english teacher quote you fuckin loser lmao, just get good and learn to read when theyre going to counter you

>you must play every smash game before Ultimate to prove youre good at ultimate
???

Is that ALL you had to say?
Cut your balls off and donate them to a worthy cause.

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>zooming in on a face cause "muh reaction"
Probably the most annoying shit out there.

>map isnt purely flat means its bad
Hazards off its a pretty decent stage, you would think it would promote camping but the way its set up makes staying in any one spot super dangerous and encourages offensive play. I want to like other un-orthodox maps like Halberd and Orpheon but I have had people clip through Halberd and people will camp constantly in Orpheon so I cant defend using them seriously

why is no one talking about Void vs Nairo?
Pichu rapped him
youtube.com/watch?v=6Pse6Fkeias

What are you still doing here? Go to the moon.

No platforms means do the same thing over and over again. Even if its the kalos champion stage, at least those platforms change up the battle.

>playing Ken
>opponent picks battlefield
this kills the approach game

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BUT user FACES ARE WACKYDOOOOOO!!!
And they're so much funnier when you zoom in on them gradually!!

One that lasts almost 2 seconds, making it obsolete as a Reflector most of the time given the poor Risk/Reward, and a bad Counter with poor knockback even amongst a set of moves that's already highly situational & usually bad.

This is bait at this point. Have fun losing every time to K. Fucking Rool because you don't know how to grab.

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No. Platforms means stay beneath the platforms and do the same shit over and over again. Lack of platforms means enabling more cirque du soleil crazy shit.

You think I've never seen this amateur arguing tactic before? Stop lying and confess the real shit you end up doing on Battlefield. NO ONE JUMPS ON THE PLATFORMS. YOU ARE AT A DISADVANTAGE IF YOU GO UP THERE.

You must be knowledgable on things to not be a fucking Idiot.
If you played any other smash game, even 64, there is this little mechanic called "Shield Dropping". Video here youtu.be/_IQFgGm49aI

This allowed platforms to not be sticky death traps with limited options. That, and the Input Delay in Ultimate causing you to teabag the platform instead of dropping in most cases

You don't know what bait is.
This is called antagonizing someone.

>NO ONE JUMPS ON THE PLATFORMS. YOU ARE AT A DISADVANTAGE IF YOU GO UP THERE
as a DDD main using the height for gordo set ups is something I do constantly, I can send a gordo to anywhere on the stage from those platforms, if I jump to the third platform then I can gordo snipe off stage or set up a super bouncy gordo that will cut off above stage recoveries

>counters are broken
>git gud
>s-stop bullying me
Keep posting, I want to see how pathetically low you can sink.

>I admit that Battlefield is a spammer's paradise
... Then you just gave me the argument. This was the claim I started with you complete moron.

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In his defense any character with a counter can just turn off Spacie and Mother children recovery's for free along with a bunch of others

Hi.

Who is:
>Wolf
>Link(s)
>Fox
>Pi(ka)chu
>Palutena
>Peach
>Inkling

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>The only reason top players don't main Ganon is because he's too simple
then explain FE, Wolf and Palutena mains

How's that now?

I fucking suck at this game! Smash is the hardest fighter to play consistently well for me. I find so much difficulty in proper spacing.

>better off with her Smash 4 sideB
Palu player here, go fuck yourself.

Why isn't Nairo going to Pound?

>run at fox while he is in fire fox and press down special
>free hits over and over until either he dies or manages to mix you up
>can aim the counter at the bottom of the ledge for instant kill on 99% of quickplay scrubs
Wolf has an option against it but the others are pretty helpless against it. Especially when its palutena that can go real deep to catch any viable mixup

the only way this shit would ever work is if you're already at/close to the edge when you smack them off, even as Palu.

If ganon gets his side b grab off does he automatically get a freebie from that low kick?

Who fucking cares, e-celebs are not your friends. Smash is the only fucking game I've ever seen where the players give more of a shit about some random literal whos with a facecam than the game itself. It's goddamn pathetic.

press the R button dude, its that easy

Its kind of creepy honestly, they treat these people like literal gods and give them free rides to the top in the name of "story lines" like this is some sort of fucking anime.

Not spam, just stratagy.

I meant instead of Down B, not Explosive Flame. That Reflect in Smash 4 was one of her few good things & actually gave her pretty solid zoning matchups. I think I roughly remember someone going Palutena as a Villager counterpick somewhat early in the meta, it was neat.

say that to a bowser main lol

As a ganon main that wasnt even impressive he could get the same results playing as bowser, his pop offs make him seem lame af

okay that makes more sense, as much as I love styling on people who underestimate how long Palu's counter lasts for. I also liked the push effect it had, made for some absurd plays.

BUFF FALCON

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this set was crazy

Posting more Nairo. It's funny even top players get embarrassed vs Ganon fuckery.

youtube.com/watch?v=N5S5BCZ5zkg&feature=youtu.be&t=139
youtube.com/watch?v=04VPrBqr1Q8

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>ultimate comes out
>say ganon is definitely good and quite bullshit
>get called a retard
>get called bad
>turns out im right

I'm always fuckin right

>IT'S NOT SPAMMING ITS ZONING
You're a 9-volt battery brained coward and Battlefield is the stage for you.

Top kek

>calling people cowards when he isnt willing to throw up a lobby

>Nairo plays Ganon
HOLY SHIT BASED NAIRO GANON TOP TIER CAN ANYONE STOP THIS MAD MAN
>Nairo puts the select cursor within proximity of Palutena
BOO STOP PLAYING FUCK YOU NAIR SPAMMING SHITTER GO EXPLOSIVE FLAME YOURSELF

>gets mad about HE'S GONNA JUMP
>bitches and gets a rematch to a fight he fucking lost
Fuck him

its almost like people enjoy seeing characters that nobody takes seriously end up taking matches so close to grand finales. Would have been just as hype if it was any other character tourneyfags never pick

I have absolutely no interest in providing you entertainment of any kind.

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BOORYAH

because you know I would kick your ass and make a webm out of the replay to add to my collection of shame

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A lot of words for what amounts to "I have no sack"

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I’m starting to realize a lot of fags are dropping characters because they can’t do what they used to like in smash 4

Apparently Zero can’t adapt to the idea of using Diddy’s jet pack offensively and only wants to HOOHAA so he drops him 10 tiers down

Diddy’s still good and people need to adapt to how his jet pack now works

Only for online.

He brought it out in a tournament once and reverse 3-0'd Light.

>Apparently Zero can’t adapt to the idea of using Diddy’s jet pack offensively

Pretty sure he doesn't want to "adapt" to an objectively worse recovery and bananas that are no longer a safe out of shield option.

Also feel free to show literally any Diddy player getting results right now.

>like this is some sort of fucking anime.
Which it is, as much as that triggers your bitch ass.

youtube.com/watch?v=fK3-QLmAYuU

insane dodge

If he can't camp like a bitch for 7 minutes a match Zero isn't gonna play the game at all.

Hows that false narrative working out for you?

We posting more Ganon webms?

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Has anyone done ledge cancels in tourney yet? I feel like it would be really powerful in the hands of someone that isnt trash like me

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Nice dodge, fagit

He can only go up

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didnt Fatality manage to get into top 8 with him at a major recently? he was making that recovery attack out of shield look really good

>practicing ledge cancel teleports with Zelda
>keep killing myself or not going far enough
>this is in the calm of training mode
I can't even imagine trying to do it mid game.

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Ganon is the one Mid tier matchup every top player should know.

IMO he's at the bottom of high tier

I've seen them being used moreso as means to get offstage quicker for an edgeguard if you had gotten someone offstage from center stage with something like FTilt. Not much of mixups like in your webm, at least to my knowledge. Other characters use ledge cancels much more prominently, such as Palutena.

>mfw taking the souls of ganon shitters in elite smash

its so fun that I almost feel bad for them

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>see a Falcon in Elite smash
>just spam my disjoints and he cant do shit about it

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Haven't seen that but I should soon.

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>Naryu's love being able to do that means Zelda is busted
what

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It is a worse recovery
But at the same time it gained offensive properties and can kill

>spend the entire night destroying people in arenas
>meet one falcon main
>the only falcon I've seen in ultimate so far
>he three stocks me
>leaves the arena right away

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This but with Pacman

I think it was frostbite, He was looking really fresh
youtube.com/watch?v=3p7XfHODmvo

>Pac-Man or DDD enter the arena
>they are always super gods that body me all day

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Learn magic from

Why would you ever approach Dorf?

If someone is playing Falcon online they are either very foolish or very, very good.

That doesn't necessarily offset Diddy's nerfs

Also you didn't answer the second part of my post.

It definitely wasn't Frostbite, he went out at 17th

Why do people use online as a measure for character quality?

Who does? If anything, they're generally completely separate.

Sane people don't

youtube.com/watch?v=Be7nXOpQGG4

>We are living in a timeline where Ganondorf is top tier in a Smash game

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nair1 should usually set you up for a knee, bair, dair, etc. Basically its a kill confirm. Try to go for dthrow combos.

what people do that? point them out so they can be laughed at.

tasty steve is based though.

he got 3rd at Final Round but that wasn't a very stacked tournament.
Falcon is solid but I'm not sure if it's possible to make top 8 at a major

Well I don't see anyone else doing well with Falcon so props to him

>not helping that the character suffers from a stage list settling down & leaving him with little counterpick outside of BF & Smashville as " small " stages for him to lessen the aforementioned flaws.
Im so pissed off about this. people keep saying heavies need buffs, but completely riot if any stages that benefit them is allowed. fucking morons...

most tourneyfags dont want heavies viable though, the people saying buff heavies and the faggots wanting warioware and siege banned arent the same people

>yoshi
>zelda
>broken
yup, he is a dumbass

I don’t think anyone should main ganondorf in super smash brothers ultimate for nintendo switch.

>Nairofags on harakiriwatch

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Fucking kek

DELETE THIS

A smart Ganondorf player can be dealt with easily, as can a stupid Ganondorf player. A Ganondorf player that seamlessly switches between intelligence and stupidity is nearly unstoppable.

NickC is pretty good too
youtube.com/watch?v=Q1uxEIwc8mA

Not a solo main, but it’s a good character to be good at

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>A Ganondorf player that seamlessly switches between intelligence and stupidity is nearly unstoppable
honestly thats how all optimal super heavy play is, being able to swap from normal play to yolo spaming bullshit at the flip of a switch really changes the tone of any matchup

>Apparently Zero can’t adapt to the idea of using Diddy’s jet pack offensively
MVD was one of the main Diddy mains in smash 4 that used jetpack offensively, and he straigt up dropped him in Ultimate. Diddy is trash, my dude

Ok, but is he better than Nick Gurr?

Damn

most tourneyfags i've seen want Charizard buffed

Fucking nice

I picked up Smash for the first time in a decade. a buddy owns a switch and we played a dozen games and I got my ass beat while picking random characters (we both use a single joycon). Should I pick Ganondorf?

Can you use him?

I cant use anyone man. I just use the one move or 3 that does some juicy shit like marios forward smash grab fireball, kirbys down air uptilt rock, duck hunts b, Foxs upsmash b and upair. Ganon seems like the simplest in execution.

He's pretty simple. He hits hard so your friend might call him cheap.

You should pick up a real controller

How has it been for some of you guys?

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>(we both use a single joycon)

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300 hour autist reporting in

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Marth isn't half bad, give him his smash 4 tipper and he could be well beyond Lucina in Viability

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I dont want to imagine marth actually being good, he can already kill wolf from center stage at 60% with a hard tipper read

twitch.tv/zero/clip/YummyGleamingHorsePraiseIt?filter=clips&range=24hr&sort=time

Did he just...?

He says it helps psych him up.

Could you not?

what is it?

Listen closely at the very beginning

I don't get it
and I'm too afraid to check that imgur link

Are niggros literal npc mobs that have aggro range
Literally what the fuck was his problems

Playing against stinkling as sheik is annoying as fuck, the difference in damage output is insane I fucking hate it. You can't gimp the whore either since her up b goes 9999 miles in the air

playing against shiek is annoying as fuck even if shiek always loses since she sucks ass in Ultimate, fuck shiek players and fuck you