There are people who want wow classic to be released just like it was 14 years ago without ANY quality of life upgrades...

great analogies guys

>wants a hardcore mmorpg
>plays classic instead of ddo
classicbabies are so pathetic, lol

>there are people who actually want to buy movies that look just like they did in the cinema 14 years ago without any film grain removal or pacing changes

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>at the expense of others

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Yes I do. With all the good and bad that entails
youtube.com/watch?v=zMEweKgWHro

>there are people who want classic to be like bfa

as much as id like to say dual spec would be acceptable, it would definitely make it impossible to join any groups without a cookie cutter spec, at least without it some classes will have good reason to make hybrids and custom shit

Yes, believe it or not, the quality of life and balance changes wouldn't be an option you could tune in your settings menu.

>There are people who actually want to listen to the same music just like it sounded 14 years ago without any remixes or re-recording

>there are people who want to buy the same movie just how they were 14 years ago without any cgi changes or removals of violence

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Yes, believe it or not, the quality of life and balance changes wouldn't be an option you could tune in your settings menu.

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so how many more bad analogies is this going to spawn? we already have several

He means unlike the graphical changes which are up to you whether or not you want to use them, balance changes are by default.

Yes? What's wrong with that?

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This

Let's say the game was out right now.

Would you still play it? And how long would you play it for? Would you really be okay with paying $15 a month to play a 14 year old game with no content updates? What would you do when the content ran out?

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the only good thing would be dual spec

Ret had Crusader Strike in WoW's beta, just give it back to them.

thats not vanilla

Worked for Old School Runescape. The only people that lose anything are Blizzard. Who the fuck cares if it fails

>What would you do when the content ran out?
The vast majority of players will never run out of content because of gear checks keeping them out of content for a long time. For the 1% that will actually be able to clear Naxx, by the time most of them will have actually geared up from there, TBC servers should be out.

You don't even have to go to the settings menu, just start BFA instead of classic.

Sharding was/is consider a 'quality of life' change by blizz

Considering they changed their mind of loot trading, I think they genuinely are going to remove sharding after the first few days like they said.

You're wrong, the old talent trees had more flexibility, and also let you use the spells of other specs. You could have specs like the frost and fire hybrid mage that's in one of the vurtne videos for instance. On retail you change a few talents around but you're still locked into the spells of that particular spec, a frost mage doesn't have the fire or arcane spells.

no those watches are digital

>TBC servers should be out.
are they going to run through all the expansions again?

is sharding really a huge problem if its only going to be in the starting zones at launch?

back to retail

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Most people agree that it should just go to the end of wrath since that's before Cata changed the old world.

>more flexibility
You literally had to invest in pointless shit to unlock the good points, and most combinations were impossible. The result of effectively locking the good points behind huge investments into a tree was that very few builds were viable. Additionally, you can't practically change on a boss to boss basis, meaning you're locked into the "generally best" shit for most of the time. Last point doesn't matter that much for most classes though since there's only one viable spec that's best for just about everything anyways.

Did that happen?

I agree that is retarded but some of us saying "NOCHANGES" are just saying it because we are scared that if we go "well some changes might be good" blizzard will open pandora's box and fuck shit up hardcore, like they always do
"Nochanges" is the safe choice, it's not optimal but what can you do, asking blizzard to change things is like playing with fire

What it really comes down to is do you want a year of pure nostalgia or a potentially different path for the game with updates starting from classic that could last 10+ years?

>implying I haven't cashed out all my retail gold into tokens
I've got enough blizzbux to play for like 3 years dude

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I remember when Naxx came out and even the raids that were geared enough to do it, didn't really even want to because Burning Crusade was coming out in only 6 months so everyone thought "why bother, expansion gear will easily replace it". Not knowing that Naxx gear was good all the way to 70, it was that powerful.

>have zero interest in raiding
>only want to do dungeons, world stuff like questing/grinding professions, and pvp (both instanced and world)
What class should I be rolling? I'm thinking Hunter. Now, if I go Hunter, I'll probably go Horde because I don't want to be a Night Elf or a Dwarf.

Then again, I kind of want to go rogue just to sap people endlessly for my own amusement. I just want to bug people all day and giggle as they search for me while I run around in stealth.

But how good are rogues doing what I mentioned above?

Lucas has made tons of shitty edits to the trilogy

It's a shame we didn't get human hunters purely because races could only support 6 classes max at the time.

Rogues are basically harassers, they lose the second a fight stops being 1v1 unless you're a god of pvp.

Hunter is a good choice if you aren't raiding, they have a lot of fun shit you can do outside of raids
Rogues do to but not as much imo (though stealth gives them a lot of options)

>most combinations were impossible.
You had more combinations than you do on retail.
>Additionally, you can't practically change on a boss to boss basis
all the elite top guilds still did this in the old system.

In the old talent system you had deep fire, deep frost, deep arcane, pom pyro, elemental spec, pom frost as different specs for mages.
On retail you have fire, arcane and frost. And all of those have less spells than any of the old specs did, old specs had blizzard firestrike and arcanee explosion without putting any talents in. Retail can't have more than one of those at once.

so then once the last patch in wrath comes out it just stays there? wrath was imo when wow turned to shit, it would be pretty ass to be stuck in the wrath timeline

>draenei

The idea is that we keep some servers in vanilla/tbc, and you get a free character move to go on to the next expansion if you want.

Maybe, but combinations of 4/5 into +hit and 2% shadow damage are meaningless combinations. Old wow is solved and there's a right choice for just about everything. Thanks to the rigid talent system the right choice is almost always the same too. Sure, new wow is pretty much solved too but the answers thanks to the talent system means that you use different spells and rotations on different bosses and content tiers.

if you honestly think only 1% of players will be able to do naxx you're honestly delusional, In general player skill now is far higher than it was 14 years ago.

druid

>Naxx gear was good all the way to 70, it was that powerful.

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when the last patch of wrath comes out, they've already milked us for like 6 years if not more and I'm pretty certain they'd be content with that.

will it move your character or just copy it over? vanilla had pretty great pvp and tbc had good pve, would be neat to have a character in each. although vanilla pvp kind of went to shit when BGs were introduced, but since we are starting of on 1.12 i guess we will be stuck with BGs

>loot trading
>modern water and lighting effects mixed with low-poly sub-90s model design
>modern friend lists completely killing the classic feeling

>ddo

weird way to spell project99

Not gonna lie, I'd be perfectly ok with staying in TBC forever.

See . The problem isn't skill, after all the most complex fight in Naxx is Thaddeus and it just requires moving left or right. The problem is that it has insanely high gear checks and requires a stupid amount of consumables.

Move, because copying over takes away the weight if the decision.

>What would you do when the content ran out
pvp in booty bay

>Casio
>luxury watches

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All the different old specs I mentioned have different playstyles and are not just 4/5 into +hit though. Old WoW had more options than retail. Swapping one talent around every now and then on retail really doesn't change up the rotation much, you're still playing the same [insert dps class that uses weaker abilities to build up damage for a strong burst] game no matter what you do.

Ideally I'd love to see some balance changes. It's ridiculous that warriors are not the only real tanking class in the game but also #2 DPS in the game, utterly dumpstering even e.g. hunters, a pure DPS class. But I don't trust Blizzard as a company after all the shit they've pulled since 2008.

>the most complex fight in Naxx is Thaddeus and it just requires moving left or right
No it requires 40 people moving left or right and if a single dumbass fucks up he kills half the raid.

Loot trading was recently confirmed to be removed for dungeons

I don't recall standard pieces being that strong, but there were certain items(mostly trinkets) that were superior to almost anything, it was highly specific and spec dependent though.

lots of trinkets for hunter come to mind, HoJ in some cases.

it wasn't that much about power but items being more than +raw stats.

It was, naxx gear for mages had roughly the same spell power as karazhan prebis.

>there are going to be autists from retail that move to classic to get "world firsts" and theyll think it actually means something

In fairness, Kara gear was hilariously undertuned and for most specs you could get objectively better gear just by running heroics.

>What would you do when the content ran out?
What would you do with any other game you've played through? You just stop playing. I don't get the obsession with having an MMO immortal. People will play it for a time and then stop, moving on to newer games. That's perfectly normal.

Did Vanilla have loot trading outside of dungeons for souldbound items?

What was everybody's big problem with Wrath? I didn't raid until that point, but mechanically I felt that the game had reached it's peak, and the subs seem to reflect this. Is it just the steamrolled heroics and (partially) shitty raids? Why not just do a wrathlike server and then expand upon it with original content?

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You mean only in raids? It didn't, but you should be master looting raids anyway so it's hardly an issue.

via gm tickets that would take days

you could contact a GM to have them give the item to another person if you accidentally got it, but i think that was only for raids

Personally I feel like wrath is when they really went on to homogenize classes. It's when they started the whole "bring the player not the class" mindset and everyone got each others spells. No matter what class you were playing, you were playing it pretty similarly.

Exactly. And "Classic" has loot trading in ways that weren't in vanilla.

>modern friend lists completely killing the classic feeling
shit I really hate how much it changed, same with the Guilds chat and options

>They unironically think 1v5 Shaman is going to be allowed
lmao

10/10 post right here

They have since removed pretty much every way loot trading could be abused though, in response to community feedback.

nothing, it was perfect. only nostalgiafags whine over dungeon finder, or spout the same tired meme about the reuse of naxx without being able to show proof that they ran it back in vanilla.

Its already ruined for me because AV is going to be the 1.12 version which is when they started ruining it

To be fair, there is no way of making it the same way it was in vanilla. Even if they did keep battle.net cross faction chat off the client, you'd still have a gorillion different chat programs like discord that would let you talk to who you want to talk to anyway.

they just wanted to add it to cut costs and not having an actual gm moving the items around.
but since you can't trust players with a bit of power off it goes

oh darn. how will I play now?

The correct way would be to not provide a service through GMs to move items around, not introduce a feature different from the vanilla experience. Most people didn't make tickets for items, they acted within the constraints of the game and didn't need on items they wouldn't want. Changing that changes the original social dynamics.

Nothing to fucking do but raid log and sit in Dal and hope people notice your pretty mount.

>Wanting current Blizzard to try and balance Classic when they couldn't balance shit even when they homogenized all the classes and stripped away a load of abilities

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really though GMs shouldnt have moved items in the first place, master looters should just not be retarded and double check that theyre giving the loot to the correct person

>more flexibility
unless you were a warrior or a mage you were literally not allowed to exist if you chose a non-canon spec for your class.

>The correct way would be to not provide a service through GMs to move items around, not introduce a feature different from the vanilla experience.
That'd be different from the vanilla experience though.

The writing and aesthetics in general sucked. Pre-WotLK WoW was made for teenagers, WotLK WoW was made for preteens. Just compare the atmosphere of, say, Naxx, with ICC.

The old talent tree was a thing all the way up until cataclysm, when they started messing with it and removing spells from the specs.

What is more different? Changing a mechanic that EVERY player used, or changing a service within a ticket system that a handful of players used?

>there are people that are not faggots like the op in this thread

Caring this much about loot sharing being implemented like this is pretty retarded
While autistic players like yourself are important to have in the community to prevent newfags from ruining the original experience (see OSRS), you really need to pick your battles.

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This is true as well. Watches are for faggots.

I'll give you that on the raid's aesthetics and writings, except Ulduar that place is great, and the zone writing, but the zone aesthetics were top notch at least.

What is more different? Taking away options that were there, or having the option available? No one is changing a mechanic every player used.

Ulduar and Storm Peaks are amazing, but every other zone looks way too cartoony. Grizzly Hills might have incredibly comfy music but the zone looks straight out of a Pixar cartoon.

there just isnt really a reason to have loot sharing at all. raids should always be master loot, and if youre are going to run with absolute randos then you should understand the risks. Shitty masterlooters were always known by the server anyway

People want nostalgia, not a modern retrofit, obviously.

Adding loot trading is a change to the loot system that everyone used in vanilla.

Howling Fjord and Dragonblight are great if you ask me. Also, I never really got the Grizzly Hills bug honestly, it was a bit bland. Icecrown and Sholozar are the shittiest of the bunch though.

If I wanted "QoL" changes I'd play retail.
And if I wanted to play retail, I'd realise my brain clearly wasn't doing its job and evict it via a shotgun.

reminder that most of Yea Forums's current userbase are too young to have ever properly experienced, much less the end-game. people below 30 should be banned from classic threads

>there are people who want to eat a good classic burger at their favorite restaurant without ANY quality of lab meat or newest sechuan sauce in it.

WoW classic wouldn't be hurt by:
dual spec
talent changes in rest areas
new textures, animations

Objectively incorrect.

why?

>new textures, animation
it loses the soul

Every one of those aspects would alter and therefore hurt the original vanilla experience that classic represents. Dual spec changes class identity and dynamics. Talent changing on the spot as well. And visual changes would harm the original aesthetics.

Your arguing is along the lines of "The original alien movie wouldn't be hurt if the alien was replaced with a CGI monster"

>dual spec
>talent changes in rest areas
Players lose investment into their builds.
>new textures, animations
Game aesthetics lose the edge of in-universe realism.

>pre-wrath
>well your AP and Str. numbers are a little low, but you make up for it in agi and enchantments
>wrath
>WHATS UR ILVL SORRY I DONT EVEN TALK TO PPL WITH A LOWER ILVL NEED X ILVL TO DUNGEON WITH ME ILVL I LVL

if you didn't choose the cookie cutter spec you were essentially just gimping yourself, there was no real option and half the talents were boring shit like increase your damage by 5%

the only good thing was that you got a talent every level so it felt like you were progressing when you leveled up

>dual spec
True
>talent changes in rest areas
No
>new textures, animations
True
Also aoe looting, literally no reason not to have it

Wasn't the big e-peen number in wrath called gearscore? And wasn't it based off of an add-on?

are you for real?

if the infinite crouch animation bug doesn't make a return i'm gonna be mad, half the fun of vanilla was cucking other people's mobs and then watching them struggle to loot crap

>reducing the cost of respecing to 10g
The only change I actually want. Having to pay 100g if I dont want to PvP as prot was some old bullshit and DPSfags will never understand.

troll mage, troll priest, orc lock or troll/orc hunter?
Fuck forsaken

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yes but it's all based on the ilvl of your gear anyway

Its not Naxx gear but Thunderfury was nerfed in TBC because it was still the best tank weapon in the game.

Tauren

How will it affect you?

The cookie cutter meme applies more to retail than it ever did with the old system.

tauren what

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>he wants to play live
There's nobody stopping you buddy.

No.
Casuals sensing weakness would use any blood in the water as a reason to try angling for even more changes, and before you know it the cancer of dungeon finder is back and the world is dead again.
Wrath and beyond fags need to understand that they don't dictate the rules.

>he wants rebalanced classes
>he wants modern QoL features such as aoe looting and cheaper respec/dual spec
>he wants updated textures and effects

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Still not sure if those people are idiots or not.
Remaking a old game without taking use of an increased budget and access to new hard- and software to improve on the original vision is just a wasted opportunity and a vaguely disguised cashcrab...
But sadly trusting neo-blizzard to change anything for the good is probably even worse

Ragnaros epics =/= lvl 62-63 blues
comparison: classicdb.ch/?item=18816 vs wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Wastewalker_Shiv

Nefarian epics =/= Ring of Blood blues
comparison: classicdb.ch/?item=19356 vs wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_Mage's_Baton

C'thun epics =/= Netherstorm blues
comparison: classicdb.ch/?item=21126 vs wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Twin-Bladed_Ripper

Kel'thuzad epics =/= Level 70 heroic blues
comparison: classicdb.ch/?item=23054 vs wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Edge_of_the_Cosmos

So anything before Rag could be replaced by Zangarmarsh/Terokkar quest greens. Anything before Nefarian would be replaced by Blade's Edge greens. Anything before C'thun would be late Netherstorm/Shadowmoon Valley greens if even then. Very few Naxxramas epics would be replaced by any greens in TBC, they'd have to be very niche.

Retail isn't going anywhere. It'll be nice to have both options.

It's going down the tube lmao

It really isn't, it just will never meet the same success it had during WotLK.

gib guild banks

Wrath was when the changes TBC introducecd turned cancerous.

Heroics went from a raid warm up to a faceroll, and removing the attunement practically removed the need to do the normal equivalent either.
Due to the facerolling, Badge loot went from assisting your raid progress to being welfare epics.
Dungeon finder made the facerolling even worse, while reducing the necessity of any social interaction
The welfare epic rush, easy access to dungeons and excess higher tier dungeons made people start completely ignoring certain heroics if they couldn't be done quickly
Flight went from something that had content worked around with it (Skyguard, elemental plateau, Netherwing flight, etc) to something just thrown in without thought so they could get away with having lazier maps.
PvP got lazier than ever
It's when they started using outside material to fuck with the setting (fucking Rhonin, Ner'Zul getting gibbed off screen, the emerald nightmare, etc)
Raids got dumbed down so much that they literally recycled one entirely, and had to gate off content to stop the bosses being killed in a week. To hammer this home, it took longer for the Four horsemen to go down than it did to kill Arthas, despite him not being available for weeks.

My hope is that they'll make horizontal progression.

Retail progression has become less about actual fun and more about getting more numbers. This has been a volatile formula for over a decade which causes the game to constantly break. It's also the only real problem I have with Retail, along with the automatic matchmaking (except for battlegrounds and arena, I never had a problem with automatic matchmaking there)

I'd love it if they did something more akin to GW2 where all gear at max level on classic is theoretically on the same tier, but with different stat spreads that may or may not benefit certain specs/builds. This way the PLAYERS get to play around and figure out what the best combinations are in theory and practice instead of getting higher mindless iLvls. That way there's less of a constant idiotic treadmill and you don't get completely steamrolled by other players just for having sunk more time into spamming LFR; they'd also have to know what they're doing with their stat spreads and builds and still they'd never be an untouchable god just one tier ahead of you.
Obviously for a model like this to work they'll need to rebalance classes but they're going to have to do that anyways because at least 80% of the playerbase has never touched vanilla WoW and they'd be absolutely dumbfounded by how unbalanced the game was back then.

>Give us the latest character models
>Enable "New Game+" in which you can set your character back to level 1, but keep all your old gear that scales as though it were an heirloom.
>NG+ unlocks special hidden new quests only visible by NG+ characters.
>Rolling cosmetic rewards for maxing a character on NG+
Then...
>Release expansions in slow succession, absolutely no further than WotLK

>Release classic WoW only to turn it into retail later
For what purpose?

>he doesn't want only 5 viable specs in his mmo, 3 of them belonging to the same class

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Because the game finally went to complete shit after WotLK, and pure classic is just a nostalgia trip. People will hate it after they realize how shit it is.

It went to shit DURING WotLK. Hell, if you really want to be an oldfag you say the game died with BC.

BC early was kino, started to go way downhill near the sunwell bullshit.

The progressive power creep part of the wow skinner box never sit well with me, it seemed like such a lazy way to add difficulty - just crank the stats up to 11' and force the players to run the endless consumable dreadmill and geargrind.

Never thought about it in that way but post highlights how niche equipment can stand the test of time, leaving more options for players to make interesting and unique builds and get the maximum out of the game mechanics instead of playing with 2-3 variants of the same stat template for the majority of the game.

Doubt itll happen but the dream would be if they make gear progression horisontal with different stat combinations that excel in specialized occasions/encounters.

BC introduced shit like flying mounts and GM weapons. It was the start of the downfall and just kept declining.
gamespot.com/forums/pc-mac-linux-society-1000004/who-here-thinks-burning-crusade-killed-wow-25902237/

Troll Warrior

All of the actual quality of life upgrades like the better netcode, better security, better graphics, ARE being included as Classic is being built off of the 7.X client and server. Anything else? Nope, and I wouldn't want it if it was in.

Flying mounts aren't a bad idea, just executed horribly.
The problem is that once you get a flying mount, it simply outclasses your ground mount in every imaginable way. They needed to have some kind of tradeoff to stop flying mounts from being a catchall upgrade that gives players a huge advantage and invalidates most of the level design.

Flying mounts were great fun, they managed it well in WotLK by disabling them until max level, but naturally, they made the game feel considerably smaller when you could fly a straight-line to every destination without really needing to pay attention to anything.

Frankly i don't see any problem with flying mounts fundamentally, and think the game could be improved significantly by keeping these features, but adding a massive amount of additional subskills that can be leveled (flying, running, riding, jumping, swimming, trading, raiding, exploring... just to name a few).
Part of the 'good old fun' was that almost bloody everything was a skill you could level. You couldn't just up and change your weapon from a sword to an axe if you hadn't leveled it, even if you had just got an axe as a huge upgrade in a raid - so you ended up playing more and more of the game, it becomes fun, exciting, because it's difficult - everything is difficult, but at the same time there is this constant drip of little achievements and rewards you got -just- for playing.
It always felt like every minute you spent playing, you were getting stronger and better.

"filling bars" becomes as addictive as cocaine.

Whereas nu-WoW, there are a million things to do, and none of them are remotely compelling. They all feel like a waste. Because blizzard doesn't want anyone to feel worse off than anyone else, nor do they want to make people work 'too hard' for anything.

That was a function of the playerbase solidifying, not the game. The vast majority of Classic players will act that way.

All mages ran Spellfire/Spellstrike with tailoring in Kara though, and kept the Spellfire Chest all the t6 chest.

>there are people who believe blizzard wont monetize or royally fuck it up in time like they have every other thing they've created.

Face it bros, it won't be a 1:1 recreation, they'll ruin it somehow.

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Filling bars has always been a waste, since it'll all be pointless next expansion. Can't imagine people who worked towards Atiesh feel accomplished today. Especially when future legendaries became easier to obtain like in WotLK. And I seriously doubt about not wanting people to work too hard for anything considering the grind for allied races is so bad people are completely pissed about it.

>They needed to have some kind of tradeoff to stop flying mounts from being a catchall upgrade that gives players a huge advantage and invalidates most of the level design.
The problem is they took until WoD to realize what to do, and even then are still doing it wrong. Flying should be unlocked with a long quest chain that proves mastery over all of the ground content to the point that it's obsolete. You shouldn't be able to fly in the end game pvp/daily quest areas. Flying should be potentially unlockable at the start of an expansion. Basically it should be a reward for areas you've mastered, not a way to skip current teir content.

>Filling bars has always been a waste, since it'll all be pointless next expansion.
That's just blackpilling/nihilism that comes with 'expansion anxiety'.

>dies as an old man
>his ghost is a kid now
Well done, Lucas.

they will, but not for a few months at least. Enjoy the first 3-4 months because after that the experience will be gone

Ironically, the 8.1.5 patch that removed the portal to Karazhan made Atiesh useful again as it's now the only port to Karazhan left in game.

>That forum
Have Blizzard fans always just been vindictive angry retards?

and this is why this project will fail

because everyone's WoW nostalgia peaked at a different time

You will never recapture the magic for everyone, forever.