Nioh is Trash

Sekiro is a fantastic game with great level design, but I see a lot of people saying Nioh is better. But Nioh isn't better. Nioh sucks, and here's why:

The biggest problem by far is the enemy variety. Once you've played three levels you've played pretty much all of them. Also, some enemies are terribly designed- consider Amrita Fiends. They have a ton of health and if they hit you they will probably kill you, so they are extremely slow and take swipes at you once every ten seconds to compensate. The end result is an enemy where you walk up, attack twice, and walk back, repeating until death. There is practically no chance of dying if you do this. The only reasonable possibility they have of killing you is if you get impatient and wail on them too long or get overzealous after a stagger. You will probably spend at least three hours fighting these guys if you finish the game. This is not actually hard, it's only superficially difficult and winds up being a patience test.

Boss design is unpolished. Some bosses have unreactable moves that deal tons of damage, and other bosses have attacks that are nearly unavoidable at certain ranges. Souls games do a good job of regulating difficulty so that players only struggle with well designed bosses, but Nioh absolutely does not- for example, Umi Bouzu is fairly difficult and he's abysmal.

There’s less weapon variety than there initially appears to be- 1kat, 2kat, and spear have loads of moveset/ability similarities with a few gimmicks or stances to meaningfully separate them. Kusarigama and Axes are substantially different from other weapons, but the end result is about three substantially distinct weapon classes. There are a lot of weird buffs, but offensive spell variety is sorely lacking.

Nioh is a struggle to stretch three respecs into enough fun to slog through a horribly repetitive game. It's shit, a 5/10 that got rated 9/10 on metacritic because game journalists only play video games for two hours.

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please reply to my thread

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no.
it sucks, the stupid input delay before your block actually parries makes the game annoying as fuck.

Timing is something you get used to.

>The end result is an enemy where you walk up, attack twice, and walk back, repeating until death.

This immediately lets me know that you never put in the effort to really take advantage of the skills and systems in the game.
You can run circles around pretty much every enemy and every boss, save for the demon in the ruined warzone.

No, the timing is bullshit.
It means instead of blocking when the attack actually connects, you have to block a second before so Wolf actually blocks in time.

Sekiro fucking blows, dude

stop trying to deflect onto a game that's been out for several years

I enjoy them both.

What on earth is similar between those weapons? Their movesets are entirely different, unless you mean the functions of some skills like certain parries?

How does Sekiro blow? Sekiro is great.

Who cares. There is no urgency in an enemy that a two year old could cheese to death. Amrita Fiends are fucking pointless, they're the best example of botched difficulty I've ever seen.

tl;dr, but I take the non-existant gear in Sekiro over the shitty diablo style loot from Nioh any day of the week.

git gud

Don't rag the combat when you decided to play in a boring way.

I don't understand why people need to go through all these mental gymnastics because their favorite game has to be categorically and in every way better than this other game that is in some ways similar.

They are both great games and fun. While I personally like Sekiro a lot more Nioh isn't an less great.

You use them all in more or less in the same ways. Sometimes you'll want the range of a spear, but otherwise you're doing the same stuff with all of them and none of them feel very different from each other.

The game design is trash. If you want to play a game for its combat engine play Bayonetta or DMC. Nioh is relatively superficial as a hack and slash game and it is horrible as an atmospheric RPG.

I didn't enjoy Nioh as much as Souls games or Bloodborne because of the fucking dogshit loot system and mission selection vs single well designed world. Nioh launched with like 5 weapon types too and they had the audacity to sell the rest in DLC. Its Diablo fucking loot with 5 weapon types, you run out of interesting shit to see pretty fucking quick
Nioh 2 could definitely take the good and improve the bad, similar to Sekiro. I really wanted atleast fucking armor to find, don't even need stats just costumes to reward exploration.

as someone who has 100+ hours in Nioh, i think both games have their merit. NSekiro is more of ghouls n ghosts gauntlet rush that's more about mastering the core mechanics than making builds.

This board tends to be a horrible place to be on launch month

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If you really think the game design of Nioh is trash and thoroughly enjoy Sekiro, then nothing I say will convince you otherwise.

Sekiro has far more memorable and atmospheric segments. Nioh is repetitive dogshit and an abomination of misguided difficulty worship.

>abomination of misguided difficulty worship
That's funny coming from a Sekiro fan.

Sekiro is a game with great aesthetics sure.
But to your comparisons
>Amrita fiends
Are literally free. They do less damage than any miniboss does in Sekiro unless you're fighting them naked.
>Boss design is unpolished. Actually kind of fair. But Sekiro's bosses and minibosses have shit AIs
The ninjas with the kicks? Almost every one of them has an exploit loop where you can trade the first hit of their string with an attack of your own. Fat general is shackled by how shitty his patterns are. And the final boss of the game is the easiest boss in the game. So they have that in common I guess
>Kusarigama and Axes
And Tonfas. And nodachis which entire gimmick is stance switching. And the existence of Onmyo and Ninjutsu builds.

The ninjutsu in Nioh is also miles ahead of any kind of "Ninjutsu" in Sekrio that the player has access to. I thought it was done for realism sake until Owl started throwing out smoke bombs, firecracker/gunpowder laced strikes (as opposed to just using it as a makeshift bomb), triple shurikens, and more. What a joke.

More than that. Most of your unique attacks aren't worth shit in Sekiro. And backstab attacks are overpriced in cost. Apparition fights would be really hard if they weren't so god damn easy.

This is before we talk about other things like replayability, build diversity, and actual content.

Oh. And almost every single boss in the game has heal reaction with three having item use input reading. One of which doing so so badly that it doubles over into being the second easiest fight in the game. He will always thrust when you use an item. So you can throw a fragment and stomp on his sword and repeat until he's dead.

This, combined with super armor, and half of your ninja tools being useless depending on the fight (with the umbrellas being offensively top tier) and most of your special attacks being unusable due to how long it takes their attacks to come out or finish, make the more "fun" game at least to ME pretty easy.

It's funny because Sekiro defenders are using this same excuse too. Sekiro is easily cheesed once you stop playing it like a Souls game and realize you have basically infinite posture/stamina and bosses can't actually attack you if you keep running.

>almost every single boss in the game has heal reaction with three having item use input reading.
This bugs me so much. I get it's just a natural evolution of punishing Estus use, but they could've come up with something better surely?

Sekiro is worth one playthrough. The combat is a watered down version of Nioh, except without styles, many skills, or tangible reward for using the few skills you do have. In the very first, tutorial segment of Nioh, you have more options for combat than the entirety of Sekiro.

You can say it's pretty or that you like the atmosphere or whatever, but the areas aren't so good that I can dismiss the plodding gameplay.

>And Tonfas. And nodachis which entire gimmick is stance switching
I didn't buy the DLC for a game I did not like.

There's a lot that's valid in this post, although instead of defending Nioh you just attacked Sekiro. I guess that is fair.

sekiro is just more cinematic, nioh had more variety in combat, combat which is gameplay.

The solution is slower or more limited heals. If healing was flat out not an option and health was gained in alternative methods during boss fights, that'd be one thing, but it's not. They just give you estus but give every boss an attack they will use if you use Estus. So if you actually have to heal you have to wait for the boss to start a string on empty air or outrange him.

The fact that there isn't like a rally tug-of-war system on your health despite the combat being as passive as it is, is a sin. I've never liked heal react or item input reading. I didn't like it on Gwyn, didn't like it on Fume Knight (who is easy because of it) and didn't like it on Friede (if you use an item when she's invisible or too far away, she will dash towards you without using an attack. This also happens if you parry empty air. She's the easiest boss in the game because of it)

>instead of defending Nioh you just attacked Sekiro.
I've got plenty of shit to throw at Nioh too, and indeed have. But despite its faults which are in no way few, it's was far more enjoyable to play because there was far more variation in it's combat. It's also far more replayable. I'm in NG+ of Sekiro and the gameplay hasn't budged a fucking inch, because too many of your options flat out aren't applicable in combat.

The animation starts before the deflect window does, a lot like parrying in DaS. So you press, and you have a very small period of time where he raises the sword to its position. If you have any input delay outside of that I would suspect it is something in your end, not the game, as I have a consistent timing down and notice the animation start with no delay.

Ah yes, there’s nothing like generic Japanese castle town in snow or generic Japanese castle town on fire. The level design in Sekiro is seriously lacking. It’s worse than Bloodborne.

Actually you did defend Nioh and I'll go over it:
>Are literally free. They do less damage than any miniboss does in Sekiro unless you're fighting them naked.
If one of them hits you and you run out of stamina you will die. I also remember a few attacks just being obscenely high damage. Maybe I didn't have advanced loot, I didn't finish the game after all.

>More than that. Most of your unique attacks aren't worth shit in Sekiro
This is true. There should be more squishy enemies.

I can't comment on all the Sekiro bosses because I'm not very deep into the game. You could be right. The biggest issue with Nioh was the poor enemy variety, which really can't be defended. It's a question of whether or not you can squeeze enough out of the gameplay engine to fight against the same stuff over and over again. I'm sure you can, and some people do, but I felt like the game was a boring waste of time with nothing memorable outside of boss fights. Sekiro is packed with memorable parts.

You're a thoughtful poster.

>The animation starts before the deflect window does
And that's retarded for a high octane action game that requires precise parrying.

That's your problem with the setting, not so much the entire design. I feel like you don't understand what level design is if this is your most important complaint, more so when you complain about Bloodborne's as it's regarded by many to have incredible level design.

>The biggest issue with Nioh was the poor enemy variety
That's a contributor of one of the biggest issues in Nioh. The real biggest issue is the *small* number enemies have *small* movesets. Tengu's have like 5(?) moves altogether. Can't remember their name right now but the Katana Oni have like 3 moves. Some bosses have 4. Enemy moveset is... sparse to say the least. That itself could be actually fine. If the moves were actually usable in all situations. The aforementioned tengu, if you're behind him, he will do a turning kick. So how do you exploit this? By dodging the kick and staying behind him. Forever until he dies from your 2 attacks.

Anyways
>and you run out of stamina
This is a problem with poor stamina management. Which requires a series of mistakes as there are (almost) no attacks that can full deplete your stamina. Hell if we're going to be doubly honest, given the number of death defying abilities you get to defy death, it's pretty hard to get one shot in that game.

On the other hand:
In Sekiro with max health upgrades towards the end of the game a red eyes could land a grab and eradicate 90% of my health. If I took a hit at all for any reason that means I'm in death range. NG+ turns that on it's ass. If you forego the charm and allow the difficulty to go up, a shit ton of attacks ARE an instant death attacks. Nioh on WotN has problems with incoming damage as well, but not to that silly of a degree.

As I've said before. Nioh by no means is perfect. Not even close. But it offers a far larger number of ways to play the game. In Sekiro you spend your time unlocking a lot of attacks. And a bunch of them are pretty cool. But you can't use a good amount of them in most situations and others aren't good in almost all situations.

Anyways this was a bit more wordy than I was expecting. I'm still probably going to beat sekiro at least 1 or two more times. or maybe not but I just felt compelled to give my two cents. Ciao user.

I agree that it's a questionable design choice, but there's consistency and no input delay. You can still get precise parrying, you just need to slightly tweak your timing. The visual cues are all there, so it's not a bad choice, it's just that it'd be much easier for people to adapt to if it was an immediate thing.

Nioh is the better game, especially considering it came out 2 years ago.

Very good post

I'm enjoying Sekiro a lot, but I love Nioh to death (to the point of doing the grindier parts and sinking a few hundred hours in it) and feel OP's been incredibly unfair on most of his points.

Axes, kusarigama, and tonfas are substantially different than 1kat -2kat. Spear and odachi are inbetween. The thing is that's already 4 times the variety of sekiro in terms weapons and movesets. Even the basic katana has a lot more movesets than what sekiro offers and you can actually customize and master different playstyles with the same weapons too.
And that's without touching on the ninjutsu possibilities. All this to say that Sekiro incentivizes and rewards one playstyle and one playstyle only. In nioh they are dozens and you never feel "forced" to play a certain way.

For the combat itself, whilst sekiro's is a lot more technical than souls game, it doesn't get close to the depth of nioh's combos, stance dancing and reactivity. Once you really understand the combat in nioh and master it it's unbelievably satisfying to style on things. Which gets me to the point of enemy variety.

Tat's a point I'll concede, it's one of the biggest weaknesses of the game. That being said the combat is so fucking fun that it doesn't ruin things for me. I've done abyss over and over, I don't mind fighting the same shit because it's so fucking tight. The few times where gameplay gets too repetitive I tried to master a different weapon and that offered some variety.

For OP's complaints on Amrita Fiends, unironically gitgud. lvl 1 with shit gear can dispose of them in seconds.
For bosses, you forget Nioh gives ninjutsu and onyomi. If you want to beat the game numerous times without it, you'll have to become excelent at it and simply be sure to never be in a situation where you won't be able to react or avoid a dangerous move. But if you use them what you describe doesn't have to be an issue.
Both games are good, but sekiro is limited to one very specific playstyle and a lot more shallow.

This is a good effortpost that doesn't deserve to be the last post in a thread