Let's settle this Yea Forums

Let's settle this Yea Forums...
Was Vergil a bad guy in DMC5?
Some people are saying that at the end, the cast just forgot about all the people that Urizen killed. But is Vergil responsible for the crimes that Urizen committed?

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nope

Urizen had nothing to do with the tree so the million of deaths aren't his fault.

Vergil pulled a Goku and left his son behind so he could continue fighting in hell for more strength.

urizen had nothing to do with the tree but he did open the portal to earth to let the tree go through

the fact none of this is explained in the game really confuses me. If we are supposed to go along with Vergil's redemption arc, it needs to be explained how culpable he was in bringing about the tree.

Who cares? He is hot and he's got a katana.

Nope.

So here's a few background items, the basic timeline, and responsibilities:
-Portals to hell open randomly from time to time which is why devil hunting is a business at all
-Yamato was shattered and chunks of it made these holes way way fucking bigger
-These holes are how Dante escaped hell after DMC2
-Yamato was made whole again by fusing with Nero's arm
-Vergil, on the brink of death after getting corrupted by Mundus and beat down by Dante and wandering hell, finally escapes through one of these holes
-Desperate to survive and not in his right mind, he tracks down Yamato and uses it to split himself into Urizen and V. Yamato also separates Mundus' corruption which is left with V as the tattoo summons. Urizen has none of Vergil's memories, only a lust for power.
-The Qliphoth, a tree that grows once every thousand years, begins growing in Hell
-Urizen, still on the brink of death, hooks himself into the Qliphoth and unleashes it on Redgrave city
-V recruits Dante and Nero to stop it (and is genuine, he has no ulterior motives)
-Dante loses
-While Nero returns to Fortuna to prepare to fighta gain, V spends the month evacuating citizens (prologue novel lel)
-blah blah blah events of most of the game
-Essentially seizing a perfect opportunity at the last moment, he reforms as Vergil
-Dante assumes this was his plan all along, to separate out the corruption and take the power of the fruit, and Vergil is too proud to say otherwise.
-le sibling rivalry

Vergil literally did nothing wrong except be a cock to his brother. Urizen was a mindless chunk of power seeking more power. and V (who was Vergil in every way that matters) was genuinely repentant and interested in saving people, but the prologue novel specifically says he has none of the ego or pride he had as Vergil (and those are restored when he re-merges).

>Vergil responsible for the crimes that Urizen committed?
yes, unequivocally.

>(and is genuine, he has no ulterior motives)
are you sure?
V seems pretty evil right before he becomes Vergil

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What is this originally from? I've seen it done with characters like beatrix from ff9 before.

V has two little flashes of crazy, once when he's about to stab Dante with Sparda and at the end when he re-forms, but it's made clear in the prequel novel that splitting and reforming and tricking Dante into helping him wasn't his plan. He was just genuinely trying to stop Urizen and felt responsible despite it mainly being Mundus' fault.

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Sasuke from naruto.

>tfw as a kid idolized Sasuke
>as an adult think he's lame and morally vacuous
>get redpilled and realize he's completely based
Understands that bitches aren't anything, flesh and blood is everything, and only backs down and reforms due to a true companionship with a fellow man
spends the rest of his life absentmindedly wandering around and ignoring his wife
absolutely based

it is canon that sasuke has never kissed sakura lmao
but he HAS kissed naruto

>he was the coolest guy

jesus christ the amount of edgy cringe in one pic tho

Post the one where Salad asks him if he is in touch with Sakura's feelings and a montage of images play of him trying to kill Sakura in the past and saying she means nothing to him and then he pauses and goes "...yeah."

Nope but he's anti hero with a unique set of views. The game's problem is that even it pussies out from that because "I want to beat Dante since he beat me before multiple times". Now, He's just a anti hero with an inferiority complex, which is pathetic.

He doesn't have an inferiority complex, he's just competitive with his brother. This was the whole point of the last scene, to demonstrate that really Dante and Vergil love each other and they dysfunctionally express it by being rivals

His motivation of seperating his demon and human side sounded like an inferiority complex. His views on power barely get challenged in the final fight. No "Might makes right" or "I was right in wanting power" speeched. The only speech happens to Urizen by Dante which is a pretty lame since Urizen is not fully Vergil. This was also in game and can be interrupted.

>His motivation of seperating his demon and human side sounded like an inferiority complex
He definitely has an inferiority complex, but that was more about survival and removing Mundus' taint than anything.

Hide all Uchiha threads.

Report all Uchiha posts.

He stopped wanting more power after the whole V thing

Vergil reformed had been spending over a month trying to stop Urizen as the ego and prideless V and had also found out that Eva had died trying to find and save him (read: he hadn't been abandoned)

If you couldn't tell from him holding back against Dante right after reforming, he even goes on a little monologue about how it turns out he was a victim of circumstance.

Vergil had absolutely changed even at Mission 18, he was just too proud and had too much to prove.

V is not Vergil though. If we said that, Then why haven't we blamed Vergil for Urizen? He's changed on his perspective on Eva's death but he's still an asshole that made Urizen in the first place because he wanted power. Why would they fight then if Vergil is completely faultless? If it is his inferiority complex, Then it's an uninteresting fight with no idealogical difference. No "Humans, even though weak, are better because of the heart and the will to keep fighting" vs "Power makes right and you can't do anything without it", which was the most interesting part of 3.

>V is not Vergil though. If we said that, Then why haven't we blamed Vergil for Urizen?
V is every part of Vergil except 99.9% of his demonic power, his pride, and his lust for power. He is explicitly 100% of Vergil's memories and humanity. Urizen is just a big dumb blob of power seeking power.

>He made Urizen because he wanted more power
He made Urizen because he was dying from Mundus' taint and believed Yamato could separate it from him. He was also, you know, under the influence of said taint at the time and can't exactly be held accountable.

>Why would they fight if Vergil is completely faultless
Because of his restored pride.
>That's an uninteresting fight with no ideological difference because it's not just like 3
It's not meant to be about an ideological difference. That was settled when Dante kicked the shit out of Urizen post-fruit. The fight with Vergil is just a bookend for the saga of the Sons of Sparda.

They're not directly Vergil but Vergil learns from what both have experienced.

Is "Vergil did nothing wrong" going to be the new "Solidus did nothing wrong" or "Armstrong did nothing wrong"?

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He was dying but part of the motivation was wanting to beat Dante, which is part of it for no reason and completely taints his pure motivation for power.
>Because of his restored pride
So why do you keep acting like Urizen isn't Vergil? You keep trying to mitigate Vergil's faults in the situation but you make his pride a crucial part in wanting to fight Dante after he returns. If so, Would that prove that Urizen is really Vergil more than V is Vergil since he wants to fight?
>It's not meant to be about an idealogical difference
Considering that Vergil's abandonment issues have never been brought up before in any of the games, This makes the final 2 fights a victory lap and completely devoid of tension. Issues on being weak enough to not be able to save Eva, on the other hand, has been a major part of his characterization since 3. The fact that Vergil appears in every incarnation as his persona in 3 proves that it was great(They never use Nelo Angelo). The one we got in 5 is honestly pathetic in comparison.

But Solidus and Armstrong did in fact do nothing wrong.

1: no
2: lol
3: yes
4: not yet
5: no

>Vergil literally did nothing wrong except be a cock to his brother

Dante was a cock to Vergil first. He bullied Vergil, stole his things and hogged all of mommies attention.

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Vergil didn't either. He was corrupted.

If you own a dog and it mauls a kid's face off that's your fault. Same principle,

MOM SAID IT'S MY TURN TO PLAY WITH YAMATO

Virgil is indirectly culpable. While he didn't open the portal to let the tree in, his stupid, shortsighted actions led to all that distruction. That being said the same actions led to the creation of V who was instrumental in helping stop Urizen. Virgil accidentally started a fire and then inadvertently help put it out

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Would nero have listened if vergil asked for the yamato back and that he would die if he didn't get it

>V spends the month evacuating citizens (prologue novel lel)
I kinda hope we get a V centered DLC campaign covering this maybe with some new summons like Phantom and Doppelganger

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No because Nero knows stranger danger now

Sounds like ur just Mr. Gay.

There's nothing new about it. People have been making excuses for the Temen-ni-Gru for 14 years.

He's not a bad guy and he's also not a good guy. Trying to place him in a moral absolute is foolish and completely misses the point

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This dude knows it.

It's kinda sad that Crona from Soul Eater is the only villain I've seen actually take responsibility for all the shit they did even though he could have pulled the "hard life" card

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>Be Vergil
>brother picked on you all morning
>try to stand up for yourself but get in trouble for "being to rough"
>find your poetry book Dante hid in a pile of his dirty underwear
>sneak off by yourself to the park wanting to get as far away from him as possible
>an hour or 2 go by and you realize you aren't alone
>a group of demons have surrounded you
>you're alone and have no choice but to survive
>fight off demons and barely make it out alive
>run back home to find it's destroyed
>find mothers charred remains
>brother nowhere to be found but his things are missing too, including rebellion
>think to yourself that she must've been too busy protecting Dante to find and protect you
>no other choice but to remain alone and protect yourself
>grow up fending for yourself and traveling the world searching for power

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>he

The only reason people aren't angry at him for it is because he lost convicingly and he got buttblasted by Mundus after.

>That's Sparda
Not what I expected but I kinda like it

>this image
this shit gets me everytime, holy kek

Wasn't Urizen created from Vergil separating his human and demon self? Even if he wasn't conscious, it's totally his fault thousands of people died.

Just like Dante and Trish are responsible for the entire Fortuna incident

>was the man that got thousands of innocents killed (again) the bad guy

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It is but these idiots will argue that it isn't since apparently Urizen is just a mindless power hungry version of him even though he didn't give a shit about other people during 3.

For some part, Yes. It's just that Trish escalated the situation when she decided to infiltrate them to figure out their plans which required giving Sparda.