If Pokemon battles are the main draw of the Pokemon games, why does the game design use them as punishment?

Nintendo, hire this man!

I fight every trainer in every game, multiple times if they allow rematch

The main draw is to catch ‘em all you fucking dolt.

Doesn't change that the game is designed so that you have to battle someone as a punishment for failing a puzzle.

I'd rather they fuck me
Males or females
and their pokemon

Okay, this right here? This is based.

Honestly I don't know, but many RPGs use battles as form of punishment despite the fact gaining EXP ultimately makes you stronger.

In the context of gyms, it's probably due to them "wearing you down" before the leader, and assuming that you'd consider the leader the only relevant one.

because for some people fighting is the tedious part
it's genius game design, because you give people the choice of fighting the trainers. Some can just go through if they are smart enough and others can fail on purpose to get the fights

I did forget to mention: Male or female pokemon too
ANY pokemon.
Also any age of trainer. Even the preschoolers

it would make a lot more sense if you couldn't just leave the gym after fighting them to heal, to be honest

It's forced grind that paces the game. The fights feel unfulfilling because there is no challenge. But they are an important part in setting you up for the big fights later.

Fuck off. Fucking annoying horny subhumans. This thread is for talking about video game design, not drooling over pixel women. You are not welcome here.

Does it matter if it's very easy to leave a gym and go the town's Pokémon Center?
In dungeons "wearing you down" is a valid concept because it's extremely annoying to use a center every time, but in gyms the point is moot.

Okay, shitlips, what else are they gonna use as punishment? Just... an empty room and the punishment is having to walk back? Would that be "better design" for you?
Also, there's no other place to put trainers in the gym. They're not exactly there as punishment, per se; it's just that you can fight them, or you can choose to avoid them. If anything, you're the one at fault for thinking it's punishment. Literally every other gym functions the same way; if you go the wrong way, you fight a trainer. The right way is the way to the gym leader. The only real alternative would just be a boring shitty hallway that's just a bunch of trainers lined up and that'd be no fun at all.

I agree, but maybe they thought most people would just press on?

I think you've got the wrong website, reddit's three blocks down.

I am pretty sure everyone has enough common sense to not waste items in a gym since you need them to travel.

Because there really isny much of a distinction between trainers and regular wild pokemon encounters. I mean of course there are irrelevant differences, but they more or less both act as what random encounters in a traditional jrpg. Since in a traditional jrpg random encounters are used as punishments, (such as opening a wrong chest, falling into the wrong area during a dungeon, making the wrong choice), it acts the same way in Pokemon.

Pokemon ultimately isn't anywhere near as original or thought out as people think it ever was, it really just is a generic jrpg with the monster catching element tacked on. As such it doesnt account for the idea that battles should be anything more than the traditional "scripted" monster fight in a generic jrpg.

Basically this, to put it simpler I guess

You're the one who's lost. Fuck off to /e/ or /h/ or whatever board that's meant for your garbage.

great, you can go to your furry circlejerks over there, shitlord

It’s punishment because you want to fight the Gym Leader, not waste PP and Items fighting the fucking cronies

Yeah but then it becomes ez grind spots since trainer battles give more exp, assuming they'd reset if you fail the gym. >fight all trainers
>purposely lose to gym leader
>repeat
Nah I'm gonna talk about both at once, stay mad.

Do you know about those rooms in the Battle Pike where a man's Dusclops inflicts status effects on your Pokemon?

Gyms don't work like a Battle Frontier, though.
Between having a cutscene play where I get a status effect on my pokemon, and I then have to go back to the pokemon center or use items to heal my pokemon, and having to fight trainers and do the same thing, I'd take the latter.

You have to progress somehow. I always thought the exploration and puzzles were the best part, so ruby-sapphire-emerald are the best ones for me.

>You can’t make a game that’s all highs or it’s just meaningless.
Sure but if your lows consist of backtracking and multiple tedious turn-based fights which present no challenge whatsoever and are only there to lower my character's health making me have to leave the area to heal, then you're a shit dev and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a computer.

Yet you can't do that on a single cartridge.

A penalty such as a status effect or losing a certain percentage of health combined with the inability to leave a gym besides beating the leader or blacking out should be used.

>he doesn't beat all trainers in the gym, hits the pokemon center and then defeats the gym leader
pic related

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No idea. I approach every single trainer in gyms.
>Missing out on trainer exp

So basically you're saying the game would be better if there were less battles?
I think you just don't like pokemon.

In RPGs in general?
There's a lot of shit that you can do to punish the player for failing puzzles:
>lose gold and/or items
>simply deal some damage
>deplete MP
>apply a debuff or ailment, either you lose items or MP to remove it or you keep it permanent until you don't exit the dungeon
>prevent access to treasure boxes
>buff the upcoming boss difficulty
>give fewer rewards if it's a side-quest
>the most obvious thing: don't let the player progress at all
But no, clearly the solution is more EXP and Gold plus a possible item drop - literally why wouldn't I fail the puzzles on purpose?

youtube.com/watch?v=jqIUCELXVVo

You can make a pokemon game without reusing the same mechanics from 2 fucking decades ago.

>literally why wouldn't I fail the puzzles on purpose?
Who ever said you weren't supposed to do that in the first place?

If there's a challenge I expect winning to reward me, not losing.

To be fair OP, your entire complaint is based on what is an incomplete assumption at best and a false one at worst.
>If Pokemon battles are the main draw of the Pokemon games
Rather than pokemon battles which include multiplayer battles, that should be npc battles.

>he doesn't limit himself to 1 usage of each pokemon center in the game

/thread

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You can steamroll every single trainer and the gym leader with no items with virtually no effort in every single Pokemon game from gen 1 to present. If you are actually having trouble you are doing something very wrong.

The game is for children.
Children are impatient.

The rule of the puzzles and
>punishment
don't apply to you 20+ year old neckbeards.

Wow congrats dude you're good at a children's game

The fact that you have to trade with another version of the game is the main marketing gimmick of Pokemon

That's one shitty argument, every game has "you lose = you get punishment" no matter if it's for children or not. Even in Pokémon if you lose a battle you have less money.

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It would be pretty sweet if you were forced to stay inside the gym once you entered, kinda like the elite 4. You then have to slog through the trainers and hope you have enough PP and healing items, or you do the challenge perfectly and go straight to the gym leader.

How to fix modern pokemon games =
>Add only a couple new pokemon, make them well designed since you'll only be adding a few
>Remove copy pasted NPC Trainers that have shit teams
>Instead dedicate resources to create engaging Trainer encounters
>Normal trainers you only fight once have a set strategy they'll try to pull off, their character design should also reflect their gimmick
> Some special trainers will have a small quest attached to them before you get to battle them, giving more weight to their fight
>Secret elite trainers you can find in certain hidden spots with stronger pokemon
>To save on resources there are gangs of trainers that band together and only use certain types (they have similar models but different hairstyles)
>10 recurrent trainers you encounter throughout your journey and they have a stronger team each time, it reflects their character progression

>not waste PP and Items fighting the fucking cronies
There's a fucking Pokecenter and Pokemart in every town. If you're so concerned about PP and items, just leave the gym after each trainer battle to heal and restock.

I would agree for everything up to gen 4 maybe I haven't played anything between D/P and S/M. Sun and Moon made trainer battles punishment. And not even punishment for doing anything wrong, but just for playing.
Thanks, I really enjoyed that trainer battle with 1 pokemon. I liked that at best, most trainers had 2 pokemon. The part that made it suck the most was the fact that they weren't challenging at all.
The trainer battles in Sun and Moon were more like a slow torture over the course of the game.

Whatever you say faggot

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Solgaleo?

>never played a challenge run of any sort
Your opinion is meaningless.

lmao faggot

because gamefreak is an incompetent developer and all of the Pokémon games (yes, even your favorite) are bad games.

The highest I'd ever rate one is a 7.5/10, and that'd be from gen V because they actually tried to be JRPG's instead of KANTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO simulators.

HGSS were the best KANTOOOOOOOOO sims and had actual effort put into them despite it, so they're about a 7/10

literally every other Pokémon game is at or below a 5/10

The main draw is collecting them you dolt.

Yes, it is trivially inconvenient because it's a children's game. The argument was about whether or not it's a punishment, not the severity of it. Keep your eye on the ball, you huge retards.

Because they actually want you to do the entire gym: puzzle, trainers and leader in one sitting. They accidentally revealed this in leaf green and fire red where it says you were defeated by the gym in the diary if you left without beating the leader after entering.

Given this, I've been long hoping for Game Freak to take steps to include more general JRPG things in Pokemon. Totem Pokemon in Sun & Moon were a cool boss battle variant on existing battle formats, with a 1v2 scenario and the enemy getting automatic stat boosts on top of having a synergistic strategy.

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