I don't see how giving other characters options and abilities to micro harms anything or why that would be bad design. What is this, an RTS?
It sounds like you just have a huge hard on for casters.
What's the Yea Forumserdict? i want to play a highly customisable rpg
Jace Davis
Mason Lewis
>it literally never is you knob slobbering simpleton and you know it.
But it literally is. Would you seriously argue that Baldur's Gate 2 is not fun to play? Because it is - despite the fact that there are classes in it that are more powerful than others.
>games are developed with the assumption that you will always have a wizard in your party and trying to play without one is a significant handicap since fighters don't have any of the crowd control or debuff spells that are nearly mandatory.
Your point being? The game also has you miss out on loot if you don't have a rogue. This is not bad game design.
>remember baldur's gate 2 where the only way to protect yourself from level drain other than the spell was an equip that could only be worn by spellcasters?
So have a spellcaster around? The game hands you plenty of recruitable NPCs for that purpose. It's your own fault for not making use of the tools the game hands you. Not to mention that late game fighters will have amulets and cloaks that give them immunity, swords that can instantly kill, etc.
>you are dumb as fuck and argued yourself into a stupid position and are now too autismal to stop so you have to keep pretending you're retarded and hope you can get away with it.
No, you are a literal retard who does not understand that the presence of a certain class being imba does not affect the other classes if they're fun to play on their own. And a class having 'necessary' skills does not make it 'imba'. The fact that you need a cleric to resurrect or heal does not make a cleric imba. It makes the cleric worth having around. The fact that only a wizard has access to certain spells does not make the wizard imba either.
>I don't see how giving other characters options and abilities to micro harms anything or why that would be bad design.
It's bad design if it results in making everyone a caster down to the very same visual effects.
Julian Diaz
>Would you seriously argue that Baldur's Gate 2 is not fun to play?
with a party that excludes or limits spellcasting the game becomes extremely frustrating. many fights are reliant on rng or can only be beaten with cheese. you don't even have to do it on purpose. if I only use party members I like my only spell casters end up being jan and viconia.
>The game also has you miss out on loot if you don't have a rogue.
wrong since wizards can unlock doors and detect traps
>So have a spellcaster around?
so you admit now that wizards are indispensable instead of just stronger than other classes?
>Not to mention that late game fighters will have amulets and cloaks that give them immunity
I said that only spellcasters can equip the one that protects from level drain you mongoloid
>It's bad design if it results in making everyone a caster down to the very same visual effects.
so I guess according to you every class in diablo 2 is sorceress and sorceress reskins. fuck off to /tg/ you cock goblin.
Dylan Perez
>with a party that excludes or limits spellcasting the game becomes extremely frustrating.
But it's still possible. And if it's too hard - why not lower the difficulty level? You're not competing with anyone but yourself.
>wrong since wizards can unlock doors and detect traps
I'm fairly certain that detect traps was a divine spell in AD&D. And when it comes to knock it's not really viable at a large scale due to vancian casting unless you want to rest all the time.
>so you admit now that wizards are indispensable instead of just stronger than other classes?
So are clerics, so are rogues. They all fulfil their purpose.
>I said that only spellcasters can equip the one that protects from level drain
So what? You can heal level drain.
It seems you have lost your entire argument - you're not arguing whether certain classes are imba any more but you're now arguing that no class should have exclusive abilities. It's GOOD design if you need clerics or mages to cast protection against status effects. It's GOOD design if you need rogues to detect traps or open chests. It's GOOD design when only fighters have survivability in close combat. If you deliberately choose to gimp your party by not having any spellcasters in it then that's something entirely different from a singular spellcaster class being imba. An imba caster is a high level Sorcerer who can wipe an entire encounter alone. That's what we were originally arguing about. Crying about only spellcasters having access to spells does not make them imba.
And I can only repeat: the fact that there is a sorcerer class in the game doesn't make it less fun playing a paladin. That's the actual argument we were having, and that's what I have been right about from the very beginning.
If you want to open yet another can of worms and argue about whether entire super-classes of classes (caster/fighter/rogue/...) should have unique abilities, should be necessary for building a party, etc. is a different debate.
Robert Rogers
>every class in diablo 2 is sorceress and sorceress reskins
Diablo 2 is only vaguely related to CRPGs. Stats and skills alone aren't enough.
Matthew Johnson
here
It's getting late here, so we'll have to continue this some other time. I'm certain this sort of discussion will pop up in a future RPG thread. Until then.
Easton Cook
>but I suspect it falls into the same analogy
It's an example of why the length a general stays up really doesn't mean anything in regards to game quality. It has little to do with your analogy.
Joseph Price
>why not lower the difficulty level?
why is there a "with wizard" and "without wizard" difficulty? because the balance is shit.
>unless you want to rest all the time.
like you do anyway until you get wish and unlimited spells?
>rogues
already been established that they're literally worthless.
>You can heal level drain.
how are you supposed to heal when the encounter is nearly impossible to win due to dying from it?
>If you deliberately choose to gimp your party by not having any spellcasters in it then that's something entirely different from a singular spellcaster class being imba.
the fact that you are gimped to the point of having to rely on cheese to even beat the game is proof that spellcasters are the center of the game. on the other hand a party of only spellcasters is only slightly weak for the first few levels and solo spellcaster playthroughs are possible without cheese.
>the fact that there is a sorcerer class in the game doesn't make it less fun playing a paladin.
yes it does when your paladin playthough is constantly struggling because the game expects you to have magic.
fuck off to /tg/ and don't come back
Parker Wood
Cleared the Varnhold DLC. It's okay, I like the change in perspective in that you're effectively a companion rather than the PC and have to convince your lord to make the choices you want and from what I understand, the PC of that DLC will make a cameo appearance in the main game and I think you can actually recruit them to your party which is cool.
Fuck that final boss though, losing two of your companions hurts like hell if you're playing on the harder difficulties.
Running a rogue into duelist in the main campaign, it's pretty nice, I do a shitton of damage so long as I have Valerie taking the hits.