Random crits are shit and its impossible to come up with a reason they should exist

Subjectivity is not an argument.

because eceleb man says they're bad
therefore they're good
checkmate

They introduce unpredictability which forces you to adapt according to what's happening. That's more challenging than everything being perfectly predictable, and humans enjoy challenge

Your opening argument is subjective, retard.

You don't have any arguments why they're bad.

No it's not

there's no boss fights in tf2 though

this but unironically

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Because random variance creates less predictable, and thus more exciting, outcomes. Gambling is more interesting when you know there is a chance you could win/lose to a degree much larger than anticipated. You are already rolling dice to determine hit/miss, why not add the extra variable.

They’re fun and they’re satisfying. Compfags are actively killing the game.

This.
grug hate glowy hate engineer man
grug love random crit now

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Youve played vydia for so long you just see crits as a multiplier and not as what they actually represent.
A critical is the representation of you hitting a weak spot or a vital organ of the opponent, of course the more dexterous you are, the more likely you will be to hit one of those points, you can't have a 100% chance because a real life opponent will move and struggle making you miss or glance at the opponent.
It makes absolutely perfect sense.

user...

OH cool so if its a player, how come the giant floating eyeball gets a hundred percent crit rate on every rocket?

Yea Forums only likes random crits because it makes up for their lack of skill. But they'll never admit to it.

it's an important mechanic in pokemon to stop tanks from winning the game after two stat boosts

Random crits are balanced in that they don’t help one person.

The better player who gets a crit would have killed the worse player either way.
The worse player who gets a crit is rewarded that kill 100% on RNG and not skill.

When you get random crits and nail someone it is fun but when someone else gets a random crit and nails you it is unfair.
Double standards. Just accept random crits, have fun and stop being a tryhard faggot.

There is literally NO argument in favour of random crits
>b-b-b-b-but it means low skill players can get more kills
False, the more kills you get, the more likely you are to get a random crit. Random crits reward GOOD players
>b-b-b-b-but it adds uncertainty
TF2 isn't a turn based game, theres uncertainty in everything you do, don't need to add an RNG
>b-b-b-b-but its FUN :'(
fuck off

they literally only help the person doing the best already by helping them do more damage

it's a self feeding system of bullshit

Risk management is a skill
Get good

RNG in general is trash and a crutch lazy devs use in place of actual game design.

You know what, a guy with zero talent becomes a millionaire by being born in a rich family whereas a hard working, talented guy becomes a wage cuck and dies working, achieving nothing. All because of RNG.
RNG is life itself. You must accept it as a part of your universe and make your peace with it.

Because I feel good when I hit a crit and don't feel that bad when I get hit by a crit so it's a net positive in joy for me.

>the only arguments put forth so far is "its fun"

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>t.seething Engie
Crockets and nade spam ain't going anywhere friendo

That's actually one of the reasons why hots is the superior moba.

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better than your no-argument

They also add an element that helps speed up casual games so that even in unorganized pubs can get the advantage they need to break a heavy hold

Depends on the game.
For TF2 I would agree, random crits don't have any place in a competitive FPS.

Easy:
Any game with RPG mechanics where you can build around crit adds layers of depth and complexity in how you approach builds. The best example of Diablo 2.

They introduce a semi-addicting gambling mechanic into a game. It's extremely low level, but preteens and early teenagers can go crazy over crits, especially when they're accompanied by flashy visuals and sound effects. This is also something most people passively enjoy subconsciouly on top of anything else the game might offer.

I do agree that it's a trash and cheap mechanic, but the benefits of including it in your game far, FAR outweigh the negatives.

Videogames are entertainment. Fun is the purest objective in its persuits.

Okay no. NO! This one doesn't FUCKING count because I say so you FUCK!

If he was truly talented then he wouldn't allow himself to be a wageslave

see

Fun is also not an explanation you fucking dunce
It's something that you need to prove.

Incorrect

It's a solution for stalemates.

YOU CAN'T PROVE FUN BECAUSE ITS SUBJECTIVE YOU DUMB CUNT

SO THEN DO NOT USE IT AS AN ARGUMENT, CRETIN

The worst is "well sometimes YOU get random crits and it helps you so that makes it okay"
No it fucking doesnt. Nothing is more annoying then when you're legitimatly better than an enemy but you get a random crit and now you don't get to use your skill to the fullest

>tries to use fun in an arguement
>admits it’s subjective

You CAN use subjectivity as an arguement becauses its a platform for ENTERTAINMENT. This isnt a fucking algebra equation THERE IS NO OBJECTIVITY. God I fucking hate millenials.

This.
Also is actually an argument FOR RNG crits since some garbage shitter beilating a try-hard autist through RNG is objectively hilarious.

yeah it is

>Why Do Crits exist?
>Because people enjoy them
>DOESNT COUNT THATS NOT A REAL REASON YOU CAN'T PROVE IT

>I should be allowed to use an irrefutable non-argument to which there is no valid reply
ok retard

Think of it like this: when you’re hitting someone IRL you’re bound to get a random crit someplace by accident, makes perfect sense to me :^)

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>"Hur dur fun is subjective"
No shit. This entire argument is about something subjective. Mindlessly shouting about subjectivity only shows you don't actually understand the purpose of objectivity and subjectivity in arguments. You are just mindlessly repeating a logic rule you saw somewhere without actually thinking about the wider context of that logic.

But they do OP, they imitate bad luck in real life

Like when u hit a nerve, when u trip in the stairs, also you can die in a accident so stupid

the thread is about tf2 get the fuck out with rpg shit

>I lost the argument
>damage control

ur welcome kiddo

>Why should we spend several millions of taxpayer’s money to build this sky scrapper out in the middle of nowhere
>”Because they want to”
>NO IT DOESN’T COUNT
Based no-reason user

>TF2
>Competitive FPS
pick one faggot

You are undoubtedly a millennial.

Shut up, nigger

it's only fun when you get them. When someone else random crits you it's bullshit

My god how do you even walk and breath at the same time.

A sky-scrapper has OBJECTIVE FUNTIONALITY a videogame DOES NOT

Depends, if it's a turn-based game it's really important since it's a proxy for random things that can happen during battle
If it's in a real time game it doesn't make sense since you can control your character

Tf2 update:
Every second you play the game, your character has a 1% chance of blowing up and dying!
It'll add more randomness to the game, and make it so that shitty players have better odds (Although they will actually be MORE likely to blow up)
Oh, and if you're against this, you're just a shitty tryhard e-sports faggot

Not him, but the premise isn't an actual argument. Even attempts at making a """argument""" (like ) aren't anything but preferences with no connection to anything other than a tenuous concept of competition.

So he is like 30 years old then?

That's what the Medic is for.

76 replies and not a SINGLE argument for random crits

Hahah that sounds fun

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Game mechanics are “objective functions” too you retard.
You have to explain why random crits are “fun”, just like how you would explain why people “want” a random sky scrapper in the middle of nowhere

Its pathetic isn't it?

>"I have no argument but I must move the goalposts."
Way to roll over and submit

The more skilled you are the more you will hate random criticals because they are something you literally cannot plan for.

>76
faggot

faggot op btfo

haha yeah and what if every once and awhile the game just kicked you to the menu! so random! really breaks up the monotony!

Well in many rpgs rather than them being random it is possible to raise the crit chance to 100% so you always crit.

I agree with this

based and hirumapilled

They activate the same parts of your brain as gambling. This is undeniably fun. If you play games for something other than fun, you literally don’t matter.

Adds build depth to RPGs with PvP.
Enjoyable on an objective level when a shitter steals a game from a better player with unfair RNG horseshit.
Speeds up games.

Then why not add this feature? You're gambling all the time whilst playing!! That's fun according to you!

>I like it when people who are good lose because it makes me feel better

They buttfluster compfags and publords something fierce.

FUN!1!11!!

>adds build depth
Random crits are a flat chance, except on the weapons that don't have it (which turn out to be so OP they dont need them) so no
>Helps shitters steal the game
Again no, random crits go to better players, amking it easier for them to stomp
>Speeds up games
No evidence for this at all

The event isn’t fun though? Just because some event periodically randomly happens doesn’t == gambling

Random crits are only a good addition in singleplyer games.

The core gameplay of TF2 is where I get my fun, not random crits.

Yes. It's funny. Do you think we shouldn't make jokes at other people's expense?

What? Wouldn't it be awesome if someone was about to kill you and they blew up? It would really help shitty players get better at the game!!
Wow, why do you hate fun?

Please tell me what is the objective purpose of a videogame? Game mechanics are objective only in the context of creating a videogame.

>You have to explain why random crits are “fun”

Ok fine. The experience of achieving a random crit will release a burst of dopamine in a portion of players due to the unexpected nature of the event. This release of dopamine can be refered to as 'fun'. The developers of the game determined that the total 'fun' experienced across their projected target audience justifies the mechanic of random crits.

Is this honestly the only way of communicating with you?

>subjectivity is not an argument
>faggot OPs opening argument is a subjective one

OPs list for cocks is palpable

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>a h u n d r e d replies and no arguments beyond and "it helps bad players" (which is flat out wrong)

Not in multiplayer games.

Keeps the action less predictable

TF2 doesn’t have RPG elements dumbass, and even if it did, you don’t need RNG in RPGs.

i wouldn't remove random crits, but rework the formula in which they work, which is that, the more damage output you do, equals more chances to have a random crit, which in it's own merit is just a prize to playing good, so good players can literally vomit random crits at every second

Depends on game and general rules of "crit"
For TF2 it's okay, since game designed to be non-esports fun game.
>crits you
Ka-boom! Ha-ha

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All games should have critical failure.

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Again, then what's wrong with this?

Crits happen in real life.

Remember when Steve Irwin got critted by a stingray?

Random crits on melee is fine.
Random crits on projectiles with splash is objectively broken.

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Highest IQ in this thread

Random crits undermine the player's decision making. It's artificial output randomness and not organic.

I see you're a man of higher intelligence.

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It just requires a certain level of shitbaggery to enjoy something purely because you are inferior and like seeing those that are superior to you losing due to something you know is unfair.

Its satisfying to see someone who is prideful get their shit pushed in. Its pointless to see someone who is good at some lose arbitrarily. I can't imagine anyone getting enjoyment just from that fact without having some sort of vast inferiority complex.

If anything, I would say the opposite. Melee crits up to 60% of the time as it is, and it encourages the retarded strategy of running at a group of enemies in the hope that it will be a crit.

im on your side dum dum

>implying a majority of this website's current userbase is old enough to remember Steve Irwin

1. Wrong. Random crits aren't a flat chance, unless you're talking about a specific game. You build around it in Diablo 2 for example. Don't move the goalposts with your follow-up either.
2. Wrong. Better players are awarded more crits, but that doesn't mean worse players aren't occasionally awarded wins over better players.
3. Anything that increases damage output increases game speed.
>“there's no eviden—”
You don't have to be aggressively retarded and stick to your guns, but every game where damage is enhanced speeds up matches. Such was the case for SFxT for example.

IMO crits should never be more than 2x normal damage. 1.5x is ideal.

3x crits are fucking bullshit and always cause people to force reset/ragequit.

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Checked, but 99% of the time, running up to an enemy is going to get you killed.

Nah, melee should be buffed, though.

Disliking random critics, is like saying autists shouldn't be allowed to play games.
Its your fault if you have a bad luck.

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Yes and if you run into a group in the hopes of random criting one person you are guaranteed to die.

Wrong faggot. They create memorable events and break up monotonous gameplay.

There is a reason why weapon damage is often given as a range, and crits are in so many games. People much smarter than you realise that elements of chance and seeing big numbers enriches a player’s experience.

No one gives a fuck about some autist scapegoating their loss solely on a crit. Crits are fun and that’s why they’re prevalent.

Plenty of competitive videogame players are prideful and it's funny to watch them pitch a fit. It's not about watching them lose, it's about watching people chimp out.

If the bad player is so bad and the good player is so good why did the good player get hit?

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1. Literally everyone here is talking about TF2 you dishonest piece of shit
2. But overall, Crits make the game less fun for bad players, because they're less likely to beat good players who get a shitton of crits
3. Even if I believe you, theres nothing inherently worthwhile about "faster" matches. The game would be faster if we implemented

>objective purpose of a videogame
It’s an electronical form of interactive entertainment.
Crits factually are not fun at any angle.
>Its not fun for skilled/recieving players because they can be killed at random by a lower skilled player
>Its not fun for the lower skilled players as it does teach them how to be better at the game, making them over confident in their own abilities and have them fail when they don’t crit
>Its also not fun for the worse player since the skilled ones will have better aim and hit more targets
>And its not fun for the person doing the crit since it cheapens the hard work of a kill by randomly letting you kill someone without effort

Yeah, but not before he likely gets a 195 crit melee on someone which shouldn't happen.

fuck off Dane

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>its been 133 posts and still nobody has been able to properly argue OPs point

>tf2 players disguise their shitty generals on Yea Forums now
you guys are retards, no wonder your shit games dead

>random crits help keep pushes going, and reduce the endemic stalemates

This is, by far, the worst argument I hear in favor of random crits, and it's even parroted by the pro-crit side in other ways. Stalemates happen when teams turtle, or play very defensively. Only A/D and Payload, there are even dedicated defensive teams. When you take into account that defensive players and teams tend to do more damage over time since the attacking players must come to them (and also considering that if there IS a stalemate, defending players are significantly often, and therefore deal with less overall respawn time), then it would make sense to conclude that the defensive, or defensive-minded teams would also significantly BENEFIT from random crits - therefore making the stalemate even more difficult for the offensive team to break. Oh, you're a medic who's managed to stay alive and is at 90% uber ready to push into the sentry nest? Too bad, here's a random crit to stall all your progress for another minute. I'm so tired of this argument that the devs put random crits in the game to break up stalemates. It's simply not true.

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>random crit shitters are still unable to argue with:

It depends on how the crit influences the game.

If I'm playing a casual game of TF2 and I get 100-0 by the aoe of a crit rocket as I stumble into a room, and the soldier most likely didnt even know I was there yet, it's not fun but eh, no big deal.
If I want to play a more competitive mode I can just find a server with no random crit. If there were random crits there, and I'd lose a tournament or something because of a random crit (and YES I know the crit chance is increased when you've dealt damage beforehand), I'd be REALLY upset.

Counter example: I'm playing some Darkest Dungeon these days. When enemy monsters crits, it's a really bad thing for you but it's almost never the reason you lose. Even if a Fungal Giant crits on a Tree Smackdown (basically that will 100-0 anybody thats not a tank, and the move has a high chance to miss), your hero isn't dead yet, you just have to drop a 1 HP heal on him and he's back in the game, then you can camp to remove the debuff that he gets from having been brought to 0HP, etc.
And the crits that your heroes do really help you out.

I hate random elements like crits because most of the time I find them unfairly helping the enemy team more than they unfairly help me, fuck em

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At the end of the day, all pro crit arguments boil down to "I'm scared of change"

So why do people obsessively defend random crits? I haven't played TF2 since the Pyro update came out and never played anything close to professionally. If I recall there were plenty of No-Crit servers and crits mostly just lead to random instant kills and instant deaths which created unexpected outcomes in some but not all situations.

I never really saw the point. If it was game speed just increase the damage on everything by 10% or 20%. The high of getting a random crit was never anywhere close to the low of getting hit by one and instantly destroyed. But they aren't the thing that I remember when I think of TF2. I think of sticky spam and sentry nests.

Managing probabillity of a range of damage is more skillfull then just doing flat damage. It also provides diversity in builds and classes. If you're attacking 5 times per second the crit chance naturally evens out over time, and it usally isn't true random.

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see
Its just rampant contrarianism because a popular youtuber started a movement against random crits.

Wrong. I am not talking about TF2. I never played a round of TF2 in my life, I don't plan on it, l it wasn't in the OP, and it wasn't in the assumption I replied to. Next time, put it in the OP if you need to lock the argument to a single game.
Wrong. You don't get to decide what's fun for worse players. Furthermore, the likelihood of them winning or losing doesn't change with flat RNG crits. What is most likely to happen is they are more likely to lose by larger margins and steal more close games.
Faster matches are always better for tournament settings, for permadeath, and for games that are featured with other games in competition. It also allows for the possibility of more matches in sets and makes games easier to quickly jump-in jump-out

BUT IT’S COMFY

Random crits are a stupid mechanic that does the opposite of what it's intended to do, but they don't make me mad. What makes me really peeved is autobalance.

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The problem with your Darkest Dungeon and really X-Com and any other game which has criticals and relies on a core team is this.

They are pure numbers games and because you have a core team which are infinitely more valuable to you than the random enemies are to the AI you are going to lose out on the roll eventually and instantly lose someone. Its not really comparable to FPS instances because you are playing against the AI as a whole who is using a series of expendable resources in order to whittle down your invaluable ones using math.

>Random crits are shit
So you like guaranteed crits? How are those NOT shit?

>doing crits isn’t fun
Yea Forums, ladies and gentlemen

no its still fun and adds tension :)

Guaranteed crits in tf2 have to be worked for and you can clearly see them coming from the bright glowing weapons.

Damn this feels like a speedrunning general or something. Some people like unpredictability. It adds the need to adapt on the fly. I get that autists can't stand not having every action mapped out before doing something, but not everyone enjoys that.

>I am not talking about tf2
Yet everyone else is. This is why youre a retard, if you can't pick up on that
>You don't get to decide whats fun for worse players
"But how can you know them dying more often to an unfair system won't be fun?"
>Faster matches are better for tournament settings
KEK so now you think random crits make the game MORE competitive

You're fucking delusional m8

>hurrr i like it when i just click button and win
I'm guessing you have around a 75 IQ

>some people like unpredictability
Yeah, because once you remove random crits, the game will become a linear RPG

Casuals love random crits because it gives them a chance to win exchanges some of the time. It helps them feel like they aren't just getting assblasted the entire time and they are more likely to keep playing.

That is the actual reason there are random criticals. It has nothing to do with game speed or any other bullshit. Its player retention and wanting to give players who would otherwise not get kills and stop playing the ability to succeed in some situations.

It is 100% about player retention.

>[Green text if opinion I Dislike]
[Non-argument against it with a sarcastic remark]

That just gave me an idea for a possible compromise. Maybe make the nature of random crits something you have to earn.

>600 points of damage or 1000 points of healing = 1 stored crit in one of your weapons

I'd have to work out the numbers, but it would make crits something you have to work for, and enemies would actually know it's coming because your weapons would glow with a stored crit.

Bait but crits are literally the only thing that should be random

FAGGOT

The answer is 33% by the way using the most faithful interpretation of the actual question.

I'm surprised you guys aren't complaining that there's more than 1 playable class/character in games. Literally impossible to balance more perfectly, unless they behave exactly the same way. What's the argument for having more than 1 playable class... let me guess:
>variety is fun!
WOW not an argument. All competitive games should only have 1 single playable character/unit/race etc.

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>random crit shitters think this is a smart argument

People who argue so dishonestly as you really need to kill themselves.

Games that are not fun are not popular.

If elements of random chance are not fun then games relying on them will not be popular.

Games featuring random chance as a core gameplay mechanic are massively popular, see: every casino game ever, poker machines, all RPGs (tabletop and video game), any game with procedural generation, any game with bullet spread = basically every shooter, the entire battle royale genre, looter shooters, most gameswith AI, every roguelike and any other game featuring hits/misses.

Therefore elements of random chance in video games are fun.

QED.

lmao, wtf are you talking about

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fpbp

Wow look, not a single argument.

>GUYS look at how retarded i am
>Wow, what a RETARD
>HAHAHA can't think of a reply huh

Random chance allows people of lower skill to occasionally trounce players of higher skill which people find fun and enjoyable as there are more people of lower skill than there are of higher skill this works out for everyone but those on the top of the pile.

Which is why everyone actually loves random crits. It gives them the ability to wipe the smirk off the face of someone who is much better at the game than they are 1 out of 20 times.

user that might actually be the stupidest post in this thread.

Except you can play as whatever class you want, so if a class is so shitty it unbalances the game, noone will ever play it. Random crits, however, are enforced upon everyone, and theres no way to opt out.

Different player class force you to be cognizant of the other classes’s strengths, weaknesses, how they play, how to counter them, and which classes counter you.
And the team aspect if TF2 means you have to build your team with classes in mind.

The saddest thing is you really thought you were gonna impress anybody with this """argument"""

Guys, I’ve got the president of Nintendo on the phone and he’s really interested in your idea for a deterministic Pokémon game: Pokemon Grey

Crits are fine, on the other hand misses are shit.

RNG has no place in FPS games unless it's bullet spread or a special weapon designed around it.

>NOOOO CRITS ARE UNFAIR TF2 NEEDS TO BE AN ESPORT
Why are engiefags like this?

They can be fun, they can be annoying, but as long as you can choose to play on servers with them disabled I don't see a problem.

In a non-multiplayer game, random crits can emulate actual, unpredictable, extremely damaging wounds. I heard a story about a guy who was shot in the gut at a bit of an angle and the bullet went through him in such a way that it shredded his intestines (he died a particularly gruesome death). That's a random crit. Until games have the realism to calculate exactly what happens when a bullet goes exactly through a particular part of the body and exactly hits certain major organs and muscle groups, random crits allow for certain shots to do more damage (while still being separate from rudementary locational damage).

I heard from somewhere that the reason they do exist is specifically because they are unfair. this lets everybody get a win here and there, and it gives everybody an excuse when they get outplayed. it's a preassure vent. this isn't the olympics user, we're just trying to have fun

>if you take random crits out of tf2 it becomes a deterministic game

Because I don't play shit games. If you want to delegate the """argument""" (preference) to one arbitrary game, then do that next time. Don't start changing the argument around because it's unwinnable and you didn't define it. Is this the shitty brain of a TF2 player at work? You're the one that's dishonest, not me. I don't have a link the brain of every TF2 boomer on Yea Forums.

Flat crit is completely fair. Each player is awarded proportionately to the amount they hit. MOBAs have a crit "priming" system where some characters will guarantee crits under certain conditions. These reward better players more frequently. Some ARPGs have variable crit, which awards players with the best gear. And finally, you STILL don't get to decide.

I never said anything of the sort. I said it makes games go faster, but now that I think about it, the worst games (including TF2) with the most RNG are the most popular while fair games are dead.

>Engiefags
How does this make sense? If I recall sentries are immune to crits and Engies can even get guaranteed crits. They seem like the least bothered by it as they can distract with a sentry before shoving a crit up the ass of whoever is shooting it.

Except, as it has been repeated a billion times, you illiterate idiot, random crits benefit good players, and make it LESS likely for shitty players to ever get a kill

As someone who has no grit in this argument you really do come of as Yea Forums incarnate. Contrarian, Elitist, Retarded and proud of it.

Well done.

Games are boring if the better player wins literally 100% of the time. There needs to be some amount of randomness that a better player has a chance (even if its small) of losing. The difficulty is finding the right balance in skill vs luck. Preferably Skill should be most of it, with luck being able to bridge the gap between two players of different (but somewhat similar) skill. Random crits in TF2 almost never decide the outcome of a match, but they can decide the outcome of little fights, and having the less skilled player occasionally able to score a kill or two because of a crit is totally fine. Instead of getting so asshurt by a random crit that you start a youtube channel, just laugh and move on.

To quote Spock: "Captain, I'm beginning to understand why you earth men enjoy gambling. No matter how carefully one computes the odds of success, there is still a certain… exhilaration in the risk."

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>if you wanna delegate the argument
And we did that you retard. Literally everyone is talking about TF2 except your autistic ass
>Flat crits is fair
Except its NOT a flat crit, good players are more likely to get them, making the game harder for the less skilled. Were talking about TF2 in this thread
>Tf2 is popular becausei t has RNG
Yeah, im sure the success of TF2 can be attributed to random crits

If you're gonna reply with "WELL IM STILL NOT TALKING ABOUT TF2" don't bother, because any non autistic person in this thread wants to discuss TF2

Repeat it all you want, it doesn't make it true. With no crits the better player will always win. With crits, a bad player can still win.

They actually don't. While random criticals may give them a few extra kills the number of lives cut short by random crits also mean potential kills lost.

Removing random criticals only benefits good players as they don't need to rely on them and will no longer be hindered by random lucky players.

>Get told a billiion times the thread is about TF2
>BUT HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO KNOW THE THREAD IS ABOUT TF2

Why can't the losing player just git gud?

>With no crits the better player will always win
How shit do you have to be at videogames to think that? Do you honestly think a pro was never bested by a newbie who got lucky WITHOUT some shitty RNG system?

only autistics discuss tf2 in 2019, why don't you use a wacky gmod picture next time instead of a general mechanic for multiple games

I don’t know what multiplay game you are refering to with better players winning 100% of the time, but even games without RNG at all will have the better player lose to the worse player.

>Games are boring if the better player wins literally 100% of the time.
That is patently untrue. Its making an assumption that you know who the better player is. You don't and you only find that out through them playing and through the situations that are encountered. Some might be better in some situations than others and you find out exactly how and what they are good or bad at and how that can be exploited.

Which is far more interesting than randomly winning or losing. There is plenty of random shit than can happen inside of a totally normal game based on player actions and the risks they take within it.

>better player will always win
Unless the worse player has more HP
Unless the worse player gets the jump
Unless the worse player gets a lucky shot
Unless the worse player has backup
Just off the top of my head. I can't understand treating an FP2 like its some sort of turn based RPG. Unpredictability is intrinsic in a game like this

It's been 200 replies and yet STILL noone can argue with this:
Watch noone reply to this post

random crits should be limited to melee weapons
(eyelander too)

random things happen all the time.
if you hit someone the same way 100 times, some of the hits will hurt more and some will hurt less.

I like having a layer of unpredictability in a game

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Let's talk about how Medics are overpowered instead.

An argument for fun? In video games? No way!

I would rather talk about how Snipers should not be in the game at all and add nothing to it.

Because fuck you that's why

If it is exactly the same way, it should do the same damage

don't get hit

>games should be like real life
better remove double jump and rocket jumping

Random things literally do not happen in real life.

random crit is ok if:
-you can't increase too much the bonus dmg, maybe even a static +50%, or +100%.
-it is a high investment. you can increase the % a lot (making dedicated builds)
-the game does not rely on low number of hit to determine the result of the fight, with high number of hits the actual dps should converge to the theoreticl expected value, so it is easy to balance. if the crit is a difference between being killed in one or two hits, it sucks. If it requires 20 hits to kill, and with crit is like 15, it is fine. For example nobody cares about crits in WoW pve, where it takes 10 minutes of fight to kill a boss, it is random, sure, but after 10 min if you have 20% cc, you will have hitted 20% with critical hits.
-for shorter fights, there is a "variance protection" system in place. if you have 10% crit you can't actually crit 10 times in a row and at the same time if you have 50% you shouldn't get 10 normal hits in a row

why it is nice to have this random element:
-in general, it adds unexpected events to the fight, testing your reactions
-add variety to the builds, both for attack and defense
-crit is a system that simplify adding additional effects, like bypassing def for example. in RO the sin/sinX had a build where you wanted to reach 100% crit chance (very high investment tho) just to get the side effect

why you shouldn't care to much in esports/competitive:
-the game will not be a good competitive and fair game anyway
-you're still bad

That’s the only argument needed.

>Dude, let me rape you in the ass
>What? No!
>Come on itll be fun
>Oh okay then
Faggot

Describe what is fun about Random crits

Doesn't that go against your own point though?
Since there's already significant variety and unpredictability in the game?
It's kinda like saying professional poker should switch the final card flip if both people have a bad hand for a coin toss instead.

There is an underlying reason for the crits happening. They aren't really random either and anyone who could actually look at the underlying code as the game was running could tell you when one was about to happen.

Random things of that variety happen all the time. Someone getting struck by Lightning while indoors qualifies as a random thing. Same for a spider somehow making an intercontinental journey just to bite a guy and kill him leaving everyone baffled as to how it reached him.

Lmao sounds hillarious. When’s this update coming? I unironically can’t wait.

>Brain immediately goes into being a cocksleeve as an analogy
Don't bring your fetishes into this conversation.

It's unpredictabilty of the fair kind
>You lost a lot of HP in a fight and didn't get healed? You're more likely to be killed
>You didn't watch for corners and keep an eye out? You're more likely to be killed
>You didn't take your opponent seriously and let him get in a good shot? You're more likely to be killed
>You were on your own instead of with your team? You're more likely to be killed
Each of these has a preventable cause, but some players like to ignore them for more risk/reward ratio.
Random crits however, are enforced upon everyone:
>A machine rolled a 1? You're dead
Which is not something you can choose. It's not gambling if its enforced

You're the one that said something being fun is argument enough, now bend over :)
Or are you gonna admit that it's a shit argument?

Here’s a solution to the crit problem:
rollback MYM because it’s a shit update and matchmaking was a mistake. Have everyone shut the fuck up and go back to playing crit and nocrit pubs like they used to.

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You only did that after I made a point you couldn't refute. That's what most people who make bad arguments do of course: they make a general statement that's secretly loaded with a bunch of conditions nobody knows about. This is why you can't argue.

Second, better player isn't "more likely" to get them: they are awarded proportionately—and getting more volume doesn't mean you're getting them more frequently. Unless there is like crit priming or crit streaking or something similar, better players aren't increasing their frequency. And you STILL have no station to decide what's fun, and despite meandering into the woods on this point, watching some autist try-hard get unseated by a crit and freaking out is objectively hilarious and it's even better when it's a worse player.

Finally, I'm not attributing TF2s success to anything. You need to shake the cobwebs out of that TF2 brain gramps, because you're making up your own arguments. TF2 popularity certainly can't be traced to it being a fair game, that's for sure, because we both know it's competitive garbage and team-based games are garbage anyways. It's loaded with slot-machine addiction components and now that everyone else is doing their own spin on virtual slot machines, TF2 has dwindled down to a shell of its former self.

Faggots against random crits should just fuck off to their 3000 e-sport games instead of TF2.
Change my mind

They’re fun to play and fun to kill. What’s the problem?

it adds no tension. You can't ever predict when you will get one or when the enemy will get one so you just end up playing it exactly the same as you would if there were no random crits and hoping that luck will be on your side

All of this arguing is literally and objectively pointless because TF2 won't be getting another update. The team silently left the game to die.

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Getting kills because of randomly doing more damage isn't fun
Getting killed because your enemy randomly did more damage isn't fun

So what's fun about it?

>You only did after I made a point
Retard, people were talking about TF2 as far back as , and the conversation clearly exclusively turned to that. Don't blame others for your autism.
>Better players arent more likely to get them
Again, stop talking about other games. In tf2, its 100% true that they're more likely to get crits
>Tf2s popularity cant be traced to it being fair
How do you know this geniouse?

Again, how fucking autistic do you have to be to insist on talking about other games in a thread about TF2? If you don't know what TF2 is like, just don't reply!
If you reply to this without talking about TF2, I wont reply, because I know youre way too autistic to get across to

1. Not the same guy
2. Again, you're really implying you love being fucked in the ass raw.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
But due to different in fire rate, flat rates are a really bad analogy.
In fact, crit chance is not the argument either, that's calculable.

>make arguments
>get btfo
>"it's a different argument now"

>what is crit resistance

Same with turn based, by another persons metric.

The reason RNG exists, is in games where you can choose between two probabilities, and try to make probability lean in your favor.
sometimes at a risk, u want a better rward.

rng crits SHOULD have a means to be manipulated, for more ore less chances.

outside of that, the other reason crits/evades/rng is added to turn based games, is so that every fight isnt 100% scripted to a point where you already know how every turn plays out.

i dont personally agree with this system, but it does have a purpose.
question is, would you enjoy a turn based RPG w/o any form of RNG?
(I personally could, i know a person who hated it when i made no RNG in an RPG maker game)

>literally was talking about tf2 all the time
>too autistic to realize it
>blame others when you're wrong

Sounds like you don't have an argument then.

>dude, you made an analogy so that must mean you love getting fucked in the ass
Why even post if youre gonna post something that stupid? Or does your autism genuinelly not let you understand analogies?

If all encounters can be mathed out then there is no reason to continue playing once you're behind. Random crits keep players playing because there is always a small chance they could come back and win.

You need to put yourself in the mindset of someone who gets destroyed constantly. They are used to dying over and over for reasons they can't understand and against players they cannot outplay. Them dying to a random crit when they would have died even if the enemy didn't get it means nothing to them.

However whenever they get a random crit and kill someone it is like the sky is opening and the heavens sing. Especially if its someone with a good score. Dying means nothing to them as they do it constantly usually without killing anyone. Getting a critical kill though? Makes their dicks hard as diamonds.

Good RNG:
>Preventable and reactable
>Positive results not drastically different from Negative/Neutral results (ie. shot spread)
>No way to stall/camp (like in Tetris/Puyo Puyo
Bad RNG:
>You can’t react to it
>Can change who wins and who loses
>Encourages camping

I replied to a general statement. Here's the conclusion:
Crit works fine in competitive games—this is proven.
You don't think crit works in TF2.
TF2 is a shitty competitive game.

>If all encounters can be mathed out then there is no reason to continue playing once you're behind.
I didn't realize you solved people. Unless you are trading blows that is absolute horseshit.

>

>crits work fine in competitive games
And the award for most retarded post of 2019 goes to....

>They create memorable events
frustrating or undeserving events.

>break up monotonous gameplay.
there are much better ways to do this.
conditional crits are the way to go.

I would say they are funny, but not fun

>OP not about TF2.
>comment I initially replied to makes no mention of TF2.
Besides being right about games in general, I guess TF2 is a shitty game lol

>Dota 2 is the most skill intensive competitive game so far
>its also the highest RNG competitive game by far

IT'S BEEN ANOTHER 50 POSTS
YET RANDOM CRIT SHITTERS
STILL
CANT
REFUTE

Don't be talking shit about my waifu, I'll fucking kill u m8

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>i need things explicitly written out for me to understand
user, i'm not even joking around, I made that post in regards to TF2 and it was blindlingly obvious. You might ACTUALLY be autistic, get checked

>All the most-watched and most-played competitive games have random crit, recoil, etc.
>Top games loaded with RNG.
It's literally true. Fair games don't get play.

>Dota 2 is the most skill intensive competitive game so far
That isn't even remotely true. Fucking fighting games are far more skill intensive than goddamned Dota.

>he doesn't stack crit chance
>he doesn't make crits his normal damage
Casual

Your statement is incorrect

I wasn't arguing that you fucking dum dum

If this is what you have to fall back on when someone shoots down your point, you need to make your premise clear. Not everyone is tuned-in to your insect TF2 brain (I don't play shit games).

POW! HAHA

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The only people still playing this game are underage or severely mentally ill. you're arguing with mentally ill people its a giant waste of time.

This is just scientific fact known since BF Skinner.

Fair games don't attract casuals that is certainly true. The easiest way to make your game successful is to give shitters the chance and ability to beat good or even great players more than they would normally be capable of.

Its why Overwatch was so popular. Ultimates and abilities which let you get kills even if they don't ultimately effect the outcome of the match makes people keep playing. The more they can give everyone the feeling of being successful even if they aren't the more players they will have.

People want to win and even if they can't win the match letting them win a few exchanges will keep them playing.

All Mobas have RNG crit and so does Fortnite.

It's the same as hit chance for melee weapons. I can understand damage reduction or weaknesses but hit chance? You're trying to tell me that I'm flinging my sword side to side slicing air when there's a troll in front of me?
It's all made to justify a "spicy" factor on non-skill reliant games. In skill based games you can fuck up, you can be too slow, but in turn based games or point and click games the only fuck up factor is rng.

>Everyone else talking bout TF2
>Wow, how was I supposed to know?

>Yea Forums talks about skill based games all the time
>try and play them
>literally no players, ones that are there are random 3rd worlders
>meanwhile Yea Forums only jerks pure skill games to seem superior ubermensch on a Tibet GameSite

All the anti random crit fags left because they realized random crit shitters were unable to respond to reason kek

Not an argument.
Next time make your argument proper.
Now go back to your low-test moba ballpit.

>Playing games where crits are insta gibs
user, please tell me you dont do this!

luck is a skill

It depends on the game, doesn't it? They have no place in highly skillbased competitive games, but they're fine in more casual enviroments. Random crit would fucking suck in a game like Starcraft, but it's fine in single player RPGs.

Do people have to constantly mention what they're talking about so you don't forget?

only autists play tf2
fuck tf2

So you admit it

Go play generic JRPGs if RNG that can be disabled triggers your anti-RNG judaism that much.

Random crits originate from shit like DnD where that one random crit can make or break a really fun story to tell others about what happened in your game.

doesn't translate well into 90% of videogames but devs still do it because "lol big numbers!!"

>People still shitting themselves about random crits in the year of our lord two thousand and nineteen

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>All Mobas have RNG crit
AHEM

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random crits are fine but it depends on what the crit rate is

I can safely say Yea Forums did not change my mind.

living mobas*

This