The great debate

DMC5:
>enemy design
>level design (not to be confused with visual design or map design)
>bosses
>combat (character movesets, mechanics, controls, etc)
>graphical detail/animations
>shitty gimmicks kept to a minimum

DMC3:
>music
>story
>locale
>boss rush

3 is definitely a good game that's worth playing but I prefer 5 overall. I hope they make some DLC expansions that continue the storyline while introducing new playable characters.

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3.

Keep telling yourself that you autist.

>DMC5
Better gameplay. No gimmick levels. No overtly annoying enemies. Better music overall.
>DMC3
Story is somewhat better, but that's the only true pro it has over DMC5.
DMC5 is the best action game ever.

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Agni+Rudra
Ceberus
Nevan

Keep ranking games on things other than gameplay friend.
I bet you rate movies based on frivolous things like how quiet the audience was at the theater or you rate meals based on how nice the plate looked.

Nevan is pretty boring honestly. Not awful by any means but fairly straightforward. Post-fight cutscene is great obviously.

The story in 5 was absolute garbage. I wanted something kino like DMC3, I got some shounen anime-tier bullshit where they waste away a cool new character so that fans can cream themselves over the reveal of their favorite cool katana man. The ending feels like it has no stakes or consequences, they just fight and then everyone is just alright with each other, Vergil killed like millions of people in not London and Dante talks with him like he's just some normal bro.

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1 > 4 > 5 > 3 > DmC > 2

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Agni / Rudra and Cerberus are great, but Nevan has no unpredictability or uniqueness to the fight. It's just reacting to her obvious tells, dodging, and then beating her with the same couple of combos before she warps away and does the same move again.
She's not a bad boss, but she's worse than anything in 5.

>the plot could have been dante going to the gas station to get some milk
would have been the best story in the series if that were true

Nevan and A+R are awful, you just dodge/parry their attacks and punish them until they die over and over again. Cerberus is ok because at least his attacks change once in a while.

I don't rate movies but if I did it would be based on how good they were, just like how I rate games.

DMC5 is a shit game, just because you have fun doing combos doesn't make it a good game you piece of shit.

>she's worse than anything in 5.
You sure you've played 5?

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>Vergil killed like millions of people
This meme is starting to piss me off.
1.) The tree killed people, the tree spawns once every thousand years. Vergil, V, Urizen had zero control over this. It happened organically on it's own.
2.) When the tree broke through into the human world, Vergil found a way out.
3.) Any atrocity that Urizen commited was not at the act of Vergil. It was Urizen.

The only wrong Vergil did in DMC5 was eat the fruit (can be seen as a good thing, since it prevented any other demon from doing so) and ripping off his son's arm for Yamato. But if he didn't do that he'd be dead.

Vergil has great character development in this game as opposed to DMC3 and we get to see that through V.

Devil May Cry 3 with mods. But DMC3 is not as great as people make it out to be with everything not related to combat.

>dmc is a gameplay first and foremost series
then DMC4's level design shouldn't disqualify it

>No gimmick levels.
Mission 6: trials
dumb nostalgiafag

It doesn't? DMC4/SE is a great game but the reason why DMC3/SE was better because DMC4's styles were gimped and the weapon selection was sub-par. The technical and mechanical depth in DMC4 were leaps and bounds over DMC3 and DMC4, but that doesn't matter when you don't have any interesting tools to do anything with them.

anyone have all of balrog's voice clips?

NERO GET IN BED
NOW

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I was under the impression Yamato was used to get the tree into the human world in the first place.

I don't know, but I love them both. Remember not to let ranking the things you like get in the way of liking them.

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DMC4s gameplay and bosses does that all by themselves.

>only devil trigger
>what is silver bullet and legacy

Level design has an effect on gameplay.

Make me! please

This. Faggots trying to start some cringey in-fignting within the fanbase can fuck off, they're both fantastic games.

3 is better and probably the most overall polished game in the genre but 5 is a strong contender, the main things keeping it back are how much worse the story is in terms of setting up the gameplay and a lack of content. one of those issues can and most likely will be fixed by post game updated but the other is always going to hold it back

if nothing else it absolutely wiped all the stink from DMC4 and DmC from the series, which is most of what it needed to do. dante and nero are probably the most fun characters to play as of any action game and the game very strongly avoids having "that one level" or "that one boss" to break up the flow. the main annoyance is just all the damn loading screens and the V levels feeling a little half baked compared to the other two characters once they get all their shit

Playable Kyrie in BP WHEN?

5 is better in every way except overall story.

Devil trigger
Crimson cloud
Cavaliere’s theme
Silver bullet
Legacy
Final urizen’s theme
Subhuman works great in game as well.

A remix of devil trigger and honestly not a song I enjoyed too much while listening to it outside of its moment in game

dmc5 is like dmc4 in that it's a combat game where it's at its best where you're in a small room with basic enemies, it does some of this stuff (e.g. story, bosses) better than 4 but it's fundamentally an action game with tacked on story/levels etc

dmc3 is like that but it has almost everything else going for it too

No, it happened organically. And Yamato was still in Nero's arm when the tree started to break through the Human World

the vergil fights wouldn't be half as memorable if they took place in a featureless room with a character who doesn't talk and appears out of nowhere even if they were otherwise the exact same mechanics

form is important in video games too. the problem is that so many games go too far and actively take away from the gameplay with their story content that the idea is largely poisoned in most peoples minds.

everything in DMC3 and its story stuff is building up to that final credits fight while devils never cry is playing. it's extremely well designed in this sense even if the actual story content is often wacky wahoo pizza party shit

>Discussing which one is better is a bad thing

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>Level Design: DMC3
>The cube room
>The chess boss
>The mission after A&R which consists of opening a door and can be beaten in sub 5 minutes without fighting anything if you don't get Artemis
>Reused levels in the second half

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Vergil official renders when?

I've been looking for something like this for a while now, thank you.

Welcome and enjoy your time in hell.

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>DMC4's styles were gimped
in what way? everything is there
>the weapon selection was sub-par
that is true, but in DMC3 you have fewer weapons to play with during gameplay,
>The technical and mechanical depth in DMC4 were leaps and bounds over DMC3 and DMC4, but that doesn't matter when you don't have any interesting tools to do anything with them.
I disagree that there was somehow nothing interesting to do in DMC4 that was possible in DMC3.

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>i posted it again lol XD

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DMC5 missions are too long. I dont feel like S ranking them when it might take up to 30 minutes thanks to damage sponges such as Proto Angelos and Behemoths.

stay mad cum guzzling shill

DMC4 has a better ratio of good to bad bosses than DMC3 does, and its gameplay isn't that much worse than DMC3's if it is at all.
It isn't gameplay.

Modded special edition of 3>5>base game 3
I'm sorry, but DMC3 on PC is a perfect game, and the difference from console is massive with ww/sw mod.

I have a question. Do you HAVE to beat the Urizen fights you're "supposed" to lose to get an S rank? It's not gonna happen anytime soon but I want to know.

Seething.

No, any of those fakeout fights that you're meant to lose have no effect on score

DMC3 all the way
DMCV was kinda mediocre

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3 is better
better looking dante
more interesting story
more interesting and abstracts setting
60 fps.
better sounds and overall sound design.
better music.
Non-retarded looking characters that look great even today.

DMC3 had a great story but its campaign isn't actually fun to play through either outside of the cutscenes and bosses.

Thanks fellow helldwellers. Here's a gift for you
twitter.com/dancetrigger/status/1107331153214820354

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>60 fps.
So is 5.

Nice

Get good

I haven't played 5 because I can't git gud at these games so I am waiting for a sale but from what I have seen, it does some things better and some things worse than DMC3.

Plus being jobless (before someone bitches I am looking for one) so I am holding back on impulse buys

I really liked the Demonic concept of Temen negro and the whole game, but I go for 5 cuz the shitty cube room

>Gets called "dead weight" one time, when he lost his arm and got his ass kicked by a demon king
>Seethes about it for an entire month
Is anything more pathetic?

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>b-b-b-but DMC3

cope and seethe :)

>ww/sw mod.
expand the acronym?

3
Zoomies just rushed 1-4 cause they gave in the hype

DMC3 had 2 Bad bosses, the rest ranges from 9/10 to 10/10.
DMC5 had 6 bad bosses, the rest ranges from 6/10 to 8/10.

Just my 2 cents.

V>Vergil all day every day.

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>Vergil + Evanescence
Right in my youth. Thanks, user. I'm off to try and loop those hip thrusts.

What was credo power level? Because the fucker was the coolest fight in the series.

>better sounds and overall sound design
this one's huge. DMC5 sounds really low effort and amateur.

Damn i give up I just can't S rank SoS mission 18

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>Hating AnR
You are a faggot and your taste is shit.

This but backwards

> 6 bad bosses
Which ones did you not like?

DMC5 is dare I say superior. 4 build on 3 pretty well on principle, but it was incredibly rushed and Dante's weapons were shit. Not so much the case in 5, which has all of 4's positives and with none of the flaws.

no its not lmao

Eva > Nero

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>everything is there
>GS is piss weak and no longer has exclusivity over charged shot
>RG adds no improvements and has a much smaller window
>TS doesn't have multiple dodges
>Gilgamesh's straight severely gimped and rising dragon exclusive to SM
>Lucifer's SM misses and has an overlaying input (back discipline and climax)
>sword pierced removed in favor of the much worse roundtrip
>level design requires you to TRICKSWORD constantly
>DS lol

>3's bad bosses: Gigapede, Leviathan Heart, Arkham
>5's bad bosses: V's summons
???

3 without a question

cerberus,agni & rudra, nevan, beo-wulf, and jester fight was really fun, including the tutorial boss. enemies were a bit bland, but they weren't badly designed, or obnoxious to encounter. big problem with the base game is that it expects you to only use one style when the game has enemies which need you utilize all your styles to take down aids opponents. hellbats need to get fucked on with gunslinger while trickster is something you'll want to evade boss attacks, and swordmaster so you can enter i-frames when performing weapon animations, but most importantly having the ability to royal guard bullshit teleportation attacks is kinda a necessity. base game of 3 feels neutered while the modded version fucks really hard. throw it on turbo, and it's either on par with modern V, or to some better. I personally like it more, because of the boss fights. V has better enemy types for sure though. 3 also has the better OST.

or maybe I'm just discussing the game?
DMC4 had interesting vistas to look at even if the transitions make no sense at all and the stage design is more or less the exact same hallways into arena into more hallways design.

>vergil stabs himself
>splits him in two
>nero stabs vergil
>he stays one

EXPLAIN

>Gigapede
>Leviathan's heart
>Arkham

>Good

there is no fucking debate
you control dante for 100% of the game? the game wins and is better

end of the fucking discussion

Nevan sucked too. Not even mediocre like Beowulf.

Can I play 5 without any of the previous games?

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Not that I agree with that poster's general sentiment, but Nidhogg was also objectively shit.

I don't see what the debate is, they both can fill in the 2nd place spot.

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intent

5 takes the best qualities of both 3 and 4, and what really puts it above for me is the fact that the regular enemies in 5 are varied and fun to fight unlike the cancer of 4. 3's enemies weren't bad but 5's are perfection

3, 5 is still great but the OST fucking blows V sucks to play as and Dantes overall kit in 3 is better as well as story

>No, it happened organically
dumb fucking retard the tree appeared because yamato weakened the barrier between worlds in 3

>Thinking that posting pasta makes your smarter than anyone

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>she's worse than anything in 5.
I can name four boss fights worse than her from V easily.
>niddhog
>malphas
>red tentacle boss in the beginning(so fucking literally who I cannot even remember the name of this shit boss fight)
>fucking gilgamesh get ready to experience frame rate drop, and 10 minutes of styling mid-air as if the game couldn't already emphasize enough you should be using your wire snatch
please god

Yamato is for VERGIL ONLY

This

He wasn't motivated.

Well yeah technically, but you'd get a lot more out of your first playthrough if you've played at least 3 first. Ideally you should play 1 then 3 then 4 then 5.

Technically - yes. The impact from the final battle will be much weaker tho.

Yes, but you'll have no idea what is going on in the latter part of the game, plot wise.

it doesn't matter, because the difference is that he's designed as an actual opponent, like in a fighting game, instead of a generic Japanese boss monster that stands in place and waits for you to wail on them. It's the same reason why Vergil in DMC3 stands out. DMC needed more of this.

Most based motherfucker ITT

>The cube room
can be finished in under 2 minutes and is a way to show off the movement tech in the game. they even have a statue in the room so you can swap to trickster/air hike if you really need the crutch to get out

>The chess boss
is an interesting boss with a bunch of different strategies to deal with it based on your personal taste and loadout that gets a little boring on the lower difficulties, like most bosses in most DMC games

>The mission after A&R which consists of opening a door and can be beaten in sub 5 minutes without fighting anything if you don't get Artemis
Actively having to take on an extra challenge to get a weapon nearly 10 levels earlier is a great idea and like you said the other two trials are over quickly and make a nice pace breaker after how intense A&R is. Theres a few different ways to get through the spikes if you feel like showing off, like using royal release to fly though several waves of spikes in a row without landing

>Reused levels in the second half
how many levels in 5 are the exact same qliphoth backgrounds with absolutely nothing mixing them up besides what enemie spawn and slightly different alterations on what the hallways between combat arenas are like?

your post seems to be that the story campaign in a game like this should just be big areas to fight enemies in broken up with hallways that have nothing in them, but thats what bloody palace is for. maybe if they didn't fucking cut it from the game to re-release a month later in a move to arbitrarily extend interest in the game they wouldn't feel like they have to give the main game bloody palace tier level design.

DMC5 is fan service: the game so you'll miss a lot of what makes it so great for fans. the combat is still fantastic either way

Nah, he's fun even on DMD. You guys just whine too much if something gives you a bit of trouble.

they need to remake 1 using the re-engine soley under the supervision of Kamiya;while Itsuno does a remake of 2 but completely revisioned to suit what he would have wanted for the game. capcom is shatterbrained though, and will not capitalize on this though.

What do you have against Malphas?

Cool. I think I've played 4, that has Nero right?
Yeah now that I think about it you play Dante later and... beat up demons and stuff. I think you save a girl

This.
Anyone who tries to claim DMC is about the music, story or atmosphere are absolute brainlets. Gameplay is what makes DMC, DMC.

You posting this in every thread.

I love seeing all the seething Vergilfujos/autists "b-but V IS VERGIL". They are so salty that V is popular and people see him as a separate character and would rather fangirl over him than their boomer fave.

So far DMC5 doesn't have THAT level in it like the fucking Chess room and the trials where it feels like a slog. Even M14 with a gimped V wasn't that slow and dragging

I'd say 3 and 4 are must play for 5, or AT LEAST 4, you can play 3 after 5.

>in what way? everything is there
not only is this objectively not true both in the fact that two styles were cut entirely but so were roughly a dozen moves (without even giving them a replacement) but all of the stuff that was carried over is noticably weaker than its equivilent in DMC3 besides drive and the fist weapon (which is now too strong and kills everything in one hit if you learn how to distort your punches properly)

I can't wait to drink your tears once DMC1 remake is announced.

>tfw everyone complaining about Furies
>"lol what's the big deal"
>face them for the first time as someone who is not Dante
Okay I take it back, these guys are assholes without royal guard. It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have moments when they are visible but invulnerable

>Break my Ragtime for free attacks
>All of the active time is wasted because the Fury is stuck in i-frame movement
T-thanks.

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>silver bullet
A devil trigger remix you fucking brainless cretin

No one will ever be right on this debate. But no one will ever be wrong.
Prefer what you want anons !

There is a "DMC story" video in the game. It's good enough I guess. But, it just wont be the same. DMCV has the most fanservice I have ever seen in a video game, good fanservice that people wanted to see for more than 10 years now. Even the weapons you get are nostalgic. It is a very good standalone game, but, another But, you have to be willing to actually grind out the combat in the void (trianign mode) for at least 2 hours in order to have as much fun as possible with this game. Are you prepared to Grind in a single player game? If yes, then go for it.
The game is slow at the start, it gets going at around chapter 8 or so. It's one of those games that get better the more you play and the better you become at the game.

let's rock, baby

It felt like giant chicken artemis with the occasional charge at you boss attack. it just felt really weak. maybe I need to replay malphas on a harder difficulty like DMD. it could have just been RNG ai, and it felt underwhelming my first playthrough, but she just felt like a really shit boss fight. everything else was FUN.

Trouble? Nidhogg? Are we talking about the same boss? The one that just kinda casually sits there attacking once every 30 seconds with a very obvious windup?

gilgashit

V is THAT level

Why is he so perfect?

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So we's got Vergilfags, Vfujos, but where are all Urizenlads?

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To add, as a standalone experience, DMC3 is the much better game.

Level design is part of gameplay. You're thinking specifically of mechanics and enemy design, which are also a part of gameplay.

They'd have to get a whole new team to do that and that's not gonna happen, they're reluctant as fuck to put money into DMC. But yeah he said he'd never do a remake of any of the series since he'd rather make a whole new game.

DMC3 has one of the best stories in vidya.

Fury cannot teleport when he's down on his belly on the ground. I found that state easier to combo unga bunga compared to air juggles. You can even get a showdown in, then buster

Have you beaten him on DMD? It's challenging but it's a real rush, it's like what Leviathan Heart tried to be but fun.

Kek

So if any half-demon splits himself into a demon and human form is the human form always Adam Driver or what the hell is up with that? Seems weird it would look nothing like the original.

dmc3 because enemies are actually threats on DMD that can actually hit you out of the air, while in DMC5 you have unga bunga nero who can shit on the entire game with charge shots and button mashing

what was the point of this scene?

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weapon switcher (meant ws), and style switcher(meant ss kek). it's a mod for the game, and you're able to style switch like DMC4 dante. it cuts off all access to using the map, and items. so only real niggas play on this type of setting.

LOOK AT THIS EPIC COPING

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Not him, but what are the strats for DMD. He's been walling me for a while

Who?

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>GS is piss weak
always has been outside of Artemis, which has its equivalent in Pandora's Box, which only gets regarded as bad because it's slow.
>RG adds no improvements and has a much smaller window
so it was made less casual friendly, and requiring more skill to use properly?
>Lucifer's SM misses
what?
>level design requires you to TRICKSWORD constantly
not really, it's just easier on yourself if you do---which just means that the design was changed to reflect the fact that players now have access to all styles, instead of only one, which may not be Trickster or Swordmaster.
>DS lol
You could say the same about Quicksilver and Doppelganger, which give you nothing and only work off Devil Trigger meter.

>Fury cannot teleport when he's down on his belly on the ground.
this is a DMC1 blade reference btw

Mistranslation.

Because he's the embodiment of Virgil's repressed homosexuality.

You guys are fags.

>DMC5 only has devil trigger

Devil Trigger
Crimson Cloud
Geryon
Cavaliere Angelo
Nico theme
Faded Tone
DMC1 remixes
Silver Bullet

3 still has a better OST but 5's is better than people are giving it credit for

well this is all from a purely combat perspective, yes
Vergil however is also lacking.

I just kinda did my usual shit, I didn't really notice that much different.

3

no you need to go play 3,then 1, and then 4, and you can play v with all the emotional impact, and you'll have the ability to style with everyone but V.

>split self in two
>human side is more attractive and better in every way

Why do demons even bother?

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>V has summons that let you do his EX taunt in peace by keeping the enemy away
>Dante has summonable swords that let you do his EX taunt in peace by juggling/poking the enemy with them
Does Nero have anything or am I stuck never actually finishing the whole thing in a fight?

>Devil Trigger
ok
>Crimson Cloud
shit
>Geryon
shit
>Cavaliere Angelo
shit
>Nico theme
AHAHAHAHA
>Faded Tone
shit
>DMC1 remixes
doesn't count
>Silver Bullet
lmao a remix

what's your point?
>3 still has a better O

Mission 20's boss should have been Dante instead of just another Vergil fight.

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Maybe it's just me, but I feel the final battle in DMC3 with Vergil was better than the one in DMC5, to say nothing of the music.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=BmUpIuHqmzg

Last time I'll share my DMC folder cause I feel like a shill at this point
mega.nz/#F!ZIBG2apB!BTlRI4L3CTavBSLXT6kGGQ
Doing this cause some anons requested it

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Why is this a better game when the gameplay is objectively worse? Yeah you can like it the most but you have to admit it's inferior in many ways.

or you're just a hipster

You know what? Fuck you.

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Does the physical OST seriously not come out until 20 days after the game? I fuckin want that shit but it's literally $70 on Amazon.

Where's the Dante love? Where are all the homos that lusted for Nero?

>V
>attractive
Pick one

Seek mental help.

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DMC3 has too many annoying Enemies, Bosses, gimmicks and no style switching for me to put it above DMC5

>protecting your dad against your uncle who is blinded by their history that he's not realizing that vergil isn't the enemy here
why didn't they do this?

At last I truly see.

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Vergil boss fights in both games were good, but they were especially crazy in 3.

>always has been outside of Artemis
gunslinger has the best DPS of anything in dmc3 that dante can do

>so it was made less casual friendly, and requiring more skill to use properly?
it also sounds like garbage to parry stuff

>You could say the same about Quicksilver and Doppelganger, which give you nothing and only work off Devil Trigger meter.
doppleganger and especially quicksilver are extremely powerful abilities (they'd be shit in dmc4 because you build DT at a slow as fuck rate, mind, but they're really good in 3). darkslayer meanwhile is just jump cancel aerial raves: the mode because the slash dimenisons are fucking terrible beyond being something you spam against the waves of puppets in LDK/BP

Should have had a choice.

Lol Devil Trigger is awful

What's in this folder? Just memes? I'm dying for some family fun time comics and fan art. Or just Vergil trying to adjust to normal life at the expense of Dante's peace and quiet.

ok we heard you in the first post lmao

Does it come with deluxe edition or Itsuno jewed me?

Go watch movies if you want "KINO": and what other stupid shit you're into. I'm into VIDEO GAMES, the act of PLAYING A GAME. The gameplay is the end all be all, fuck you.

you realize caring strictly about gameplay makes you a casual, right?

V's bosses was top 5 in the game you fucking retard

5's only bad boss was Niddhogg. Gilgamesh was mediocre but at least it was simple and not annoying like Leviathan or Gigapede

Nidhogg on DMD is a very good boss fight.

if you actually think DMC3 is better you're just being a contrarian
I love DMC3 to death but 5 is an improvement in every way

5 > 3 > 4 = 1 > > > 2

>he doesn't know the strat
take the camera out of focus from the enemy, and make sure there's some space.

Tranny poster? Didn't know he was a Vfujo?

>Twitch emoting

Terminate your life immediately

No, I'm just not a hipster.

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Gameplay:
DMC5 > 4SE > 3SE > 3 > 4 > 1 > 2

> more attractive

Try harder.

>V is the best character in the entire game
>Capcom takes him away
>Vergil is the same old boring loser he always he was for two scenes

Give V back.

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I don't think it does. If I'm wrong though, I'll be fucking thrilled to get it twice, since I bought deluxe on PS4 and PC.

>in the fact that two styles were cut entirely
I wasn't referring to that. Everything is there in the base styles.
>but so were roughly a dozen moves
because their weapons aren't
>but all of the stuff that was carried over is noticably weaker than its equivilent in DMC3
eh I'm not seeing it

>454876134
oof, not getting a you, try harder.

>if you actually think DMC3 is better you're just being a contrarian
Wrong.

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Heads up, voice of Balrog released a bunch of voice clips for mods and stuff

tell me if you want some posted

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DMCfags need to shut the fuck up

>Video GAMES being about GAMEplay is plebian
I don't even have words for how extremely pathetic you are.

I really dislike the lack 5's humanoid melee bosses. Nero's and V's first bosses are tentacle shit (and they're too slow and telegraphed), Urizen and Lady are projectile spam bullshit. Goliath and Cerberus (to a lesser degree) can be trivialized by JC'ing around them. Only Trish, Urizen (la forma sem la armadura) and Vergil requires you to be able to recognize their animation and some minimum reflex, which i think is the most fun aspect of action and action rpg boss fights. Even the usual mentioned bosses are like that, like Agni and Rudra and Credo, fuck even Timestop Horse and Stuttering Insect.

Maybe Trish (montada en el cavalito) will be fun in BP as Dante and Nero.

I'm gonna pirate it if it doesn't desu.

>Level design is part of gameplay
that's a really broad interpretation of gameplay

Remakes are completely unnecessary, especially in a series where the plot barely matters.
The DMC prequel book is astounding for the hoops it jumps through to justify ". 45 art warks" in a series where most of the players didn't even know that was a thing.

>This single Nevan combo proves DMC3 is better

Such shit taste.

Should have been Dante + Vergil Agni Rudra, Ornstein and Smough style. Vergil was really free with Nero's triple jump

Stay salty, Vfujos.

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Unironically this, because DMC came out in a pre-NGB world. Any game after NGB is inferior automatically.

Post what you have. Did he make an ULTRAAAAAAAA COMBO line?

compile every swear in the game

>overall aesthetic is worse outside of mission 2
>V exists to shit up the game
>music is shit
>has less bad bosses but they feel way less threatening and more bland than 3's decent-great bosses
>worst enemy in the game(hell judecca) is 100x worse than 3's worst enemy (the fallen)

I figured that's what you meant.
Link it and tell the class whether it works for the HD release.

>is a way to show off the movement tech in the game
Which is fucking horrendous.

>they even have a statue in the room so you can swap to trickster
Wrong. They have a statue past the middle room, which leads to A&R arena, guarded by enigmas and a vanguard. You're confusing it with the adjudictor in the room.

>Actively having to take on an extra challenge to get a weapon nearly 10 levels earlier is a great idea
That's not the point. The point is that the level is both insanely short and has no replay value. It's particularly jarring when it's tacked between A&R and Vergil 1 which have pretty long levels.

>how many levels in 5 are the exact same qliphoth backgrounds with absolutely nothing mixing them up besides what enemie spawn
Not any. Nero's first Qliphoth level has the blood veins and blood clot elevators. V's Qliphoth level is completely unique and one of the best looking levels in the series. Nero's second Qliphoth level has two alternate routes and a skatepark. Dante's second Qliphoth level has unique plataforming and changes as you reach Cerberus. Only Dante's first Qliphoth level and the prologue are the same, and those are introductory levels anyway. Dante's first mission has alternate routes and secrets too as well. The only one that's got nothing special going on for it is the co-op mission.

>slightly different alterations on what the hallways between combat arenas are like
The same could be said about DMC3. There's like two or three inbetween rooms in Temen-ni-gru which are just copy pastas of themselves.

>a series where the plot barely matters.
>DMC
I seriously hope you faggots choke

>Remakes are completely unnecessary, especially in a series where the plot barely matters.
Yes which is why I'm stating they should be remaking these game to keep them up to standard with current gameplay of the later iterations. Itsuno has already stated remaking DMC2 was in the back of his head, and has been for a while.

I'm glad they did such a good job with V's scan, he's beautiful!

Attached: D11UjmeWoAEQVOi.jpg large.jpg (2048x1152, 163K)

I really got tired of destroying the blood root things over and over again in DMC5.

???
you can pull off even crazier shit in 5 because you have style switcher, and the styles are even more fleshed out than they were in 3

gunslinger
shoot birb
trickster
slap cat
royal guard
royal release nightmare

No, the playable character.

It does, and you can find it here faggot
reddit.com/r/DevilMayCry/comments/a3m8yk/ddmk_0998/

Attached: 1507779179016.jpg (600x747, 39K)

some of memes, some of reaction images, some of drawings. it's a mixed bag of everything

please see

There aren't any weapons as inventive as Nevan in 5.

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Um but V literally is Vergil, sweaty.
Any fangirling over V is basically just fangirling over Vergil by proxy.

Also prove that V is popular. You say this every time you come into these threads and you never back it up.

DMC3 is the only DMC game with a good story

>vergil in 3 is lacking
not at all, but in 4se he's fucking OP as shit was able to beat bloody palace with him no problem

DMC5 is the most repetitive of all the DMC games.
Same design for all the levels past Lv6
Same "puzzle" for every room
No enemy variety
Same combo works on every enemy except Fury and Scissors. (Both are a joke, just mash barlog to counter fury/ragtime buster or one shot scissors)
Boring bosses outside Vergil and Cav Angelo

Like this?

Attached: dmc5dlc.jpg (2083x9885, 2.55M)

Post some family bonding you'd want to see in slice of life comics:

>Nero needs to go grocery shopping so Kyrie can make dinner at the orphanage
>Dante and Vergil have never been grocery shopping
>Vergil is curious and wants to observe
>Dante tags along because he's bored
>Vergil judgement cuts to reach items on the top shelf
>Dante finds a snack isle with nothing but pizza flavored snacks
>has a mental break down when he sees he can buy twice as many frozen pizzas for the price he pays for a pie at the shop
>both of them try to check out with their items
>Nero explains Vergil has to use money
>Vergil tries to pay by challenging the clerk to a duel

>B-BUT V IS VERGIL DONT YOU UNDERSTANDD?

I like how they say this like we give a single fuck about Vergil kek They can keep pretending everytime someone praises V, they are praising Vergil if it helps them cope with V's popularity I guess.

dmc1 had a good story it's just old if it was remade in the standards of v it'd probably sell more.

Typically I separate a game into gameplay, audio, narrative, and graphics categories. And those got subcategories. The mechanical part of level design is how the player interacts with the level so it makes sense to put it into gameplay.

>Cavaliere Angelo theme
>shit
see this is how I know you're either baiting or have shit taste

2 unironically has a good story.

dropbox.com/s/htf6dw527kryz0e/Balrog You Are Not Human - Michael Schwalbe.wav?raw=1

dropbox.com/s/2t2qpwayag4iwxj/Balrog Style Rank Announcer - Michael Schwalbe.wav?raw=1

uc8b46cf85aaadf76c5be752ec86.dl.dropboxusercontent.com/cd/0/inline/AdToEYobpbnNXlOJgY3gNunIXROfA_zwTVJDZVkAQzqdzVUcx37W-D_YjMU_VdLuu5RmvEEcgM8OGswMl6j40fQ9UF5fmotW0iw9HlM_Fu2hRcggfrJEFBk2-KY6kWjDQ6M/file#

uc25400235bb6e920d5dbbce04d4.dl.dropboxusercontent.com/cd/0/inline/AdTyI_Dgh3FEc0p4TxjAPIuHORSu03gU35LBwIQHWGjGGO0cxSfNlBzgRxcBuT8ae9Uo2D_s1iwxbUzBaqirNnF6_oDIk1JAeb-4GOgCg1UVET5Xni2xtS50cMdVfnHbpl4/file#

dropbox.com/s/8spgef04eaoxwrk/Balrog I Should Have Been - Michael Schwalbe.wav?raw=1

uc0816c5323d01d1c1e64e5072e0.dl.dropboxusercontent.com/cd/0/inline/AdTsCXb7x3ZKLgpWTa56cf-p2GkB6m75aFwKdEDqqfrYrDwglVVO0UKJnD_IUuMHLIy2PVrJQ6LSdxO8_knAjn0oIjmBZrPfpxikYKnEn025619I0HEnQNrSOCp60xb9KQI/file#

dropbox.com/s/7trbfohsgrb01wx/Balrog Big Smoke - Michael Schwalbe.wav?raw=1

What I got

Attached: 1530507106159.jpg (588x588, 30K)

>"I'll ignore all of 3's objectively bad enemies because there's one 5 enemy I don't like"
>"I don't like characters that force you to experiment with different playstyles"
>"I'll ignore 3's bad bosses and will assign some arbitrary "non-threatening" category for 5's bosses"
I think the OST is some of the best in the series, and think the aesthetic is faithful to the original art direction
that stuff is subjective

I can post some stuff too

Attached: D0xhNjxX4AcV4Ku.jpg (454x598, 52K)

That's close, but I'd like some more canon compliant shit.

This doesn't even work half the time and breaks some encounters in the campaign. Only use this if you Bloody Palace.

>you are really in love with Vergil, not V
>p-please love Vergil and not V pleasee!

Vergicucks are really pathetic. They even tried to pretend Vergil was the most popular with fangirls for the entirety of one thread because they got tired of being called out for being jealous that V is the fangirl bait

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>Nero explains Vergil has to use money
>Vergil tries to pay by challenging the clerk to a duel
Ultimate fight autism moe

youtube.com/watch?v=Tlwda9S58Lg

Is that a raspberry?

pcgamer.com/capcoms-hideaki-itsuno-wanted-to-resign-after-dmc-devil-may-cry-according-to-dantes-voice-actor/

I wonder who's telling the truth here. What Reuben is saying seems very plausible but at some point Itsuno seemed to have done a 180 on Ninja Theory considering he pretty highly complimented them last year.

I kinda wonder if he's trying to bury the fact he was upset with them to preserve good business relations and Matt is covering for Reuben's big mouth.

back to forward GS E&I
back SM balrog
forward GS 2Kals

The all have very good damage and rank building. Also skip the enemies if you're breaking the trees blood clots, or the normal ones for that matter.

you'll find yourself doing the same things over and over again after just one mission

actually cringe

it's like crapcom is just making fun of the old games

Stop catfighing, fags.

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>storyfags vs gameplayfags
every thread, every game
storyfags should go back to the vn general

>>"I don't like characters that force you to experiment with different playstyles"
Nero forces you to experiment with different playstyles
V is a complete non-sequitur, the DMC equivalent of a Sonic Adventure character

Nevermind, he posted a link to the dropbox with all the audio on his Twitch

dropbox.com/sh/jtbyf4wacew828j/AABufUXl0Xzsp8tiGzs4EKF1a?dl=0

Attached: 1538973744352.png (540x560, 208K)

Best looking guy in the game.

>Dead Weight
It's time.

>has a mental break down when he sees he can buy twice as many frozen pizzas for the price he pays for a pie at the shop
I had this too in my life

He updated it, and it works fine now. I've had no issues with it, and I've beaten the game multiple times using this mod.

how brutal do you think kyrie is in bed

>I should be the one to fill your dark soul with light
>Big Smoke order

Reminds me of this youtube.com/watch?v=ACC0jGsn5_Q

This.
Gimmick characters were a mistake.

Not that user, but you are crazy and living in delusion if think that all of what you just said is true. You are the one trying to start a fight between fans so you can go fuck yourself. People can like V and/ or Vergil, no need to be salty if other people don't like what you like.

OH NO NO NO

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Ste's always on top.

this is not your safespace, fuck off

DMC3 is universally loved around here, there's just a bunch of stubborn boomers who cling to the past and won't accept that 3 has been surpassed

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maybe if you're bad, and can't get creative by head hopping,tricking, and summoning swords. vergil is more fun in 3 than 4, and has better animations with beo-wulf.

DMC3
>Much better DMD mode where previously mediocre enemies and bosses suddenly become way more interesting
>The platonic ideal of what "story in a videogame" should be. short, very good at moving things along and building hype for gameplay, full of moments that exist entirely to look cool but wouldn't actually be very fun to play, and with lots of thematic stuff under the hood for people to sperg out if they want
>Quicksilver and Nevan, the GOAT style and weapon
>Dantes pistols can actually do damage
>You play ever mission as whatever character you pick
>Specific gameplay quirks like distinct DT types, having a high style rank giving you an easier time doing strong moves, DMC1 style taunts
>Actual alternate costumes instead of colors

DMC5
>Dante and Nero's movelist, which is both satisfying on a base level but has a ton of depth both in terms of the sperglord combo video sense and the sperglord speedrun optimization sense
>Only one boss that feels like filler on the lower modes, unlike the several in DMC3 (doesn't really get better on higher modes though)
>Making red orbs have a point after you buy all the upgrades
>The online mode
>V and Griffons voice acting/one liners
>Air juggles are more dificult because of the increased gravity on your character the longer you stay airbourne
>Dante actually acts seriously instead of le cuhrayzee man

they're both good

>Vergil tries to pay by challenging the clerk to a duel
>not forces the clerk to pay for their goods

>The mechanical part of level design is how the player interacts with the level
No, how the character can interact with the stage is part of gameplay---things like wallrunning, wall jumping, air dashing, grappling hooks---that's gameplay.
What platforms are in an area is part of level/stage design, which is separate from gameplay.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Did we get world wide sales numbers?

Gameplay: DMC5
Soundtrack: DMC3
Story: DMC3

Overall: DMC3is more memorable and is the definitive "you musst play" DMC game.
DMC5 is for anyone who enjoyed DMC3

>3 has been surpassed
I wish.

DMC3 has it all, your opinion is shit.

Dante fights with a motorcycle in 5, so 5.

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as long as that makes you sleep at night ;)

V and Vergil are both great. Doesn't change the fact that Vergilfujos are eternally salty over V being the more popular one among women and that plenty of fans see him as his own character and sideline their fave kek

DmC = DmC5, the rest is shit

This.

Right now it's close and I'd give 3 the edge but when 5 has Bloody Palace, three additional characters, turbo, LDK, and who knows what else they'll expand it with, it'll win easily.

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>What Reuben is saying seems very plausible
It really doesn't. DMC5 took WAY too many things from DmC and Itsuno literally said he might consider it his favorite game.

I know I'm setting myself up for disappointment but I really wish Capcom would be cool enough to include Vergil in the BP update
>He's already in the game so making him playable is not a gigantic task as all the graphics and animations are there.
>They HAVE to know by now he's a massive fan favorite
>He's sitting in the trailer in the main menu after beating the game like he's got stuff to do with the resto f the cast
>Update comes out April 1st, April Fool's Day Foolishness, Dante

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How in the FUCK am I supposed to play as V when his dumbass summons keep whiffing all the attacks?

Of course Itsuno hated DmC. Anyone with a brain could easily tell just how straight up insulting it was to the original games and its fans, not just in the game itself but literally anything that slimeball Tameem said in interviews. He just tried to seem humble that someone else wanted to "remake" his series and he would pretend that alone was an honor, nevermind if said remake was the most insulting piece of shit imaginable. He's a very humble person in real life but even then, it's impossible to not be insulted by DmC.

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>no Vergil

kek

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>3 has been surpassed
I fucking wish. I already uninstalled my pirated DMC5, 3 is way better.

Based and redorbbed. I was expecting you to be a "le both sides are wrong" neutralfag.

we'll get him eventually, don't worry
if not in the bloody palace update, then some other future update

5 purely on the fact that 3's camera is complete aids.

>turbo
OH NONONONONONONONO

This would've been peak kino

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>Nero's first Qliphoth level has the blood veins and blood clot elevators.
>Neros level is unique because it has elevators where you don't do anything

lmfao

>b-but you can jump off enemies heads sometimes, so that mixes up using the same four aerial moves over and over again...!
pfft heheheh
>vergil is more fun in 3 than 4
it doesn't matter, he's basically a clone/port, it's not much better or worse

3>5>1>4>DMC>2

This is the objective true and if you disagree you simply have a wrong opinion.

They'll make you pay for him for sure user. Probably along with Turbo mode or something.

Game Informer: After DMC 4 there was the Ninja Theory game, DmC: Devil May Cry. Did the team behind 5 look at that game for any inspiration?

Itsuno: We learned so much from Ninja Theory and DmC. That was a collaboration between Capcom and Ninja Theory. I went to Cambridge once every couple of months to work those guys. So we learned a lot of from them, and you want to talk about stylish… Ninja Theory, those guys are style incarnate, man. What they did with DmC, that art style, those animations, that is real style, y’know? So we took a lot of what we learned from that.

Even stuff like the kill cams, for instance, we took a lot of that, and having learned that, we tried to implement that in this game as well.

Another thing is, we have a lot of friends who love DmC. For me, DmC is one of my favorite DMC games, if not my favorite. And we wanted to make the game in a way that people who enjoyed that game will enjoy the way it controls just as much as they enjoyed DmC.

>But yeah he said he'd never do a remake of any of the series since he'd rather make a whole new game.
Kamiya specifically already said he wants to remake DMC1. It's all left to how good his and Capcom's relationship is. I'm not expecting it to feel much like the same game in the end, but probably a nice change of pace for the series that isn't a complete reboot.

People mentioned a novel in the last thread that had details about Mundus vs Vergil, were they talking about the Before the Nightmare one?

>Level Design: DMC3
3 has massive backtracking and annoying features, I take 5 scenic routes with optional secrets over it any day.

samefag

>Pirate shcum can't enjoy things
What else is new

>I think there wass a bit of a misunderstanding - DmC is still available to buy on all digital plataforms and Itsuno totally loves it, so please buy it, please

>Dante actually acts seriously instead of le cuhrayzee man
this is a bad meme that Dante is never serious in DMC3 outside of the last level

Why does anyone want the bloody palace? It's going to be timed again. This much is a fact.

> Havent been on Yea Forums for a while
> Played the fuck out of DMC5 and love everything about it. Dream come true
> Yea Forums hates it

You guys have the shittiest taste, jesus fucking christ

I'll say 3 because the level design is better.

4 is better than 5 and 1.

Cope.

You are literally mentally unstable. Unironically seek out a therapist, you complete schizo.

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I would consider it if they put DE on steam

Turbo confirmed never ever for consolefags, already on PC tho.

>the same four ariel moves
>he didn't get gud
you're a short-bus brainlet

based
also 4fags are the worst in the fanbase

Are you implying 5 will never have turbo? Use your words and speak clearly.

>(DMC5 only has devil trigger)
I literally agree with everything you said except this

I think it's more likely that they'll release some additional missions where you play as vergil fighting his way out of hell with dante.

V is not the most popular one from what I have seen. He is very appreciated but not more than Vergil, Dante and Nero. And even if you were right, it doesn't mean that you have to be agressive like that. If someone is baiting just don't answer and let it go. And also people have the right to have a different opinion on the matter in general.

As long as he's DLC instead of Capcom pulling some DMC5SE shit a few years from now on "PS5" I'll be happy.

What makes DMC5 combat better? It felt slow and dumbed down compared to DMC3's.

Attached: Deed.png (223x212, 78K)

I pirated 3 as well though and it's better.

>Vergil not recognizing Lady
>Vergil and Lady awkwardly discussing 3
>Vergil teleporting demons, Nero, Nico, etc into Dante's office so he doesn't have to deal with them
>Dante telling the story of where Jackpot came from

>turns out Sparda left a massive fortune behind to Dante and Vergil that was lost when the mansion burned down
>cue treasure hunt with the cast
>turns out Dante's half after Lady, Trish, Nero, and so on take their cut is almost enough to pay off all his debt
>he immediately gambles to pay off the last bit and loses

>Dante defeating a demon and sparing its life when the demon offers to manage his finances
>the demon becomes a cash register devil arm
>cue the demon berating Dante for all the terrible purchases he's made

i'm talking about dmc4 dante, who acts serious for the trailer shots and then is just a big meme the rest of the time and stands around doing nothing as random townspeople are murdered by demons cracking jokes

What's that thing Vergil had over the zip-up vest? Another vest? A crop top?

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just the contrarian faggots coming out of the woodwork
let them get their (You)s until they're satisfied

That's what the duel is for

see

Attached: eyeball pepe.png (1920x1080, 795K)

it's literally the same speed and it adds a plethora of mechanics for Dante

vergil is a fag and dante took all of his interesting moves and made them better

before ANY new characters they need to fucking buff V so he's not so goddamn simple

How do I avoid getting FUCKED by Vergil's ring of swords as Dante when he activates his Devil Trigger?
I can get there without getting hit easily, but then he just slaps my shit every time.

Attached: 1552868289918.jpg (3840x2160, 1.58M)

Based.
4 is the most kino in the series.

Attached: fortuna_castle_by_dmcdesigns.jpg (900x720, 96K)

Did anyone else have trouble with the chicken boss? It completely tore me apart when it went berserk, only managed to beat it because I burst it down before it could go berserk a second time.

>samefag
how btfo are you right now you fucking faggot?
>cue oh nonononononono

Attached: samefag.png (1903x935, 135K)

you almost shouldn't have wasted your time posting it again, because the cockmonglers are just gonna ignore it, *again*
because it's okay when Itsuno does it

B-but muh judgement cut

yikes
might as well place 4 above 3 since clearly the only thing you care about is churning out autistic combos you tasteless retard

>It's literally the same speed
No it's not. There are a lot more frames of startup and endlag after most attack animations. It's noticeably slower.

objectivity is a thing, retard. even if youre too sensitive to discuss it fag

Let me xplain to you something about the modern game industry. There’s no such thing as a cool unlockable that is free and not advertised, because they see every post-game update as a way to sell more copies.

Since they already used Bloody Palace being free as a selling point before launch, nothing else will come with it, it wouldn’t make sense money-wise.

Plus, they know Vergil sells extra copies, he was used as a selling point for the Special Edition of 3, he was used as a selling point for the Special Edition of 4, they used him as a selling point for paid DLC in DmC. When yiu have a character like this, you don’t add him by default, you don’t add him for free, and you don’t add t along with other updates.

You wait a month or two after launch, announce his dlc or expansion with a trailer, then have a pre-release run with streamers and gaming press, then release it for 1/4 to 1/3 the price of the main game.

Attached: 923F892F-AA00-4C58-B69B-1EEB5EFFF133.jpg (1920x1080, 252K)

See You really think they're going to let this slide?

>most overall polished game
Arkham disproves that on its on. Also the enemy and boss design show their flaws on higher difficulties.

>normal DMC threads
>comfy posts and people talking about the actual game
>DMC threads that try to ignite any kind of critical discussion
>turns into literally nothing but shitposting, contrarians, falseflaggers, and hipsters all doing nothing but flinging shit at each other
hmm

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Yea Forums loves 5. It's just a vocal minority of contrarian autists who try to convince themselves they're not retards by pretending that everything new is trash and everything old is God's gift to Earth. Also Barry. Just ignore them.

V is definitely the most popular with fangirls in DMCV. Just because it's true doesn't mean people have to be salty over it.

People have the right to want V to be his own character and like him more than a boring one-note villain who only shows up in the game for a few scenes.

I don't see you bitching at the people who shit on V all the time, be less transparent for once. You only get triggered when someone shits on your old boomer fave kek

Thanks for proving me right.

Equip Balrog, you better have bought the damage on jumping, jump to destroy all swords nearby.

Or the more stylish version, jump with E&I in Gunslinger and press B/Circle while also dodging the dive.

What form of power is this?

Itsuno is a Capcom employee and a jap, of course he's polite about it

DmC was a trainwreck, everyone knows that (had some good ideas in it though, just like 2)

3 feels outdated mechanically without the Style Switcher mod. I suppose people who are really opposed to Dante's style switching might heavily prefer 3 over the newer titles. I find it hard to go back to 3 without the mod though.

Put 4 below DmC and we have a deal

Go watch movie games on YouTube. Let us play video games

>most kino in the series
>the first few levels are a clusterfuck of wildly distinct areas which are just recycled in the second half
if we're talking purely about aesthetics and atmosphere 1 will forever be the king

Fuck, he looks really good here. Too bad a lot of his fans are jealous autists.

says the poster who misspells aerial

hey retard, its in DMC4 where vergil does the same shit over and over because it steamrolls the entire game AND gets you good ratings

vergil can literally kill DMD bosses in one punch, stunlocking the boss as he charges up his hit, and has gay shit like an invincible full screen super attack you can spam multiple times in one DT

in DMC3 vergil actually feels distinct from dante, with big strengths (summon sword/judgement cut DPS, his yamato taunt building meter as long as he doesn't move, dark element damage, comically huge aerial rave hitbox to make clashes easy, a triple jump) but also a bunch of weaknesses in terms of missing great options that dante has. the two chaacters actually feel unique

in DMC4 vergil is just better version of dantes rebellion/gilgamesh moveset + yamato with its literally broken judgment cut that comes out instantly because the timing on the just frame is way too big and which lets you glitch out of bounds because it lets you fly endlessly

good god you're intolerable

>objectivity is a thing
Don't you mean subjectivity? That's what allows for debates in the first place.

press the fucking square button.

The best one i've seen so far

Attached: twins_by_buddha_cat_dd2b295-fullview.jpg (1024x5072, 618K)

I like the idea of committing to a style, so I love DMC3

V would have been neat with a completely different personality and actual shoes. His sandals are so fucking stupid looking.

3 with the mod is godly, and is an actual 10/10. without the mod the whole game feels like a fucking headache.

>Level Design: DMC3
It has a terrible level design, as does DMC1.

>If you think a game is better than the game I like you must HATE the game I like

no, retard. I just like the other game more

4 has the best aesthetic.

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gay

NO PUEDE SER, LA CREATURA?

these are just animations that connect different attacks together to make the game feel less janky, and every one of these motions can be easily cancelled

>I prefer straight corridors

His personality is fine and one of the reasons people like him so much. His shoes grew on me.

Give me a comparison webm (non turbo) then, because I can't feel it except when using Cavaliere which has about as much recovery as Nevan

I wish Vergil had shoes instead of boots, they don't fit with the black. Also that his coat were shorter.

>V is definitely the most popular with fangirls in DMCV. Just because it's true doesn't mean people have to be salty over it.
Prove that it's true, otherwise your posts are just the incoherent ramblings of yet another mentally ill delusional fujo.

>ariel
>misspell aerial am now a brainlet
>confirming brainlet has better hand eye co-ordination than you
user are you secretly hot-wheels?

this guy is autistic and probably thinks there's an objective answer to matters of taste

DMC4's level design was the best in the series until DMC5 was released.

It has nothing to do with combos, just the overall package.

4's music, story, graphics, and even characters are better than 1's. 1 has way better atmosphere and level design but overall it's worse. That's putting aside gameplay since games are about more than what buttons you press.

3 > 4 > 1 > 5 > 2

Overall package ratings.

not with those washed out colors and static environment. Backtracking doesn’t help it either.

This.

no, because the cool thing about 1 is how the RE influence shows in it. A remake would take away what 1 is known for and just make it another quip fest, which 1 already has plenty of anyway, so it would just serve to take away its cool atmosphere.

Thanks for doing the hard work, user. Topkek.

>circlejerk janny-sanctioned stealth-general threads
>everyone mindlessly gobbling cock
>discussion thread
>everyone critically pointing out flaws cockmonglers ignore and try to bury while cockmonglers helplessly throw (You)-less shade

that's what I implied mongoloid lmao
keep being delusional DMCVtard

lmao thanks for posting the ugliest area in the game
4 detracts from the original horror gothic aesthetic so hard it's almost DmC level

>DMC4's styles were gimped
They weren't, you absolute moron.

>these are just animations that connect
No, the attack animations themselves have more startup and recovery frames, inherently. Not something you can cancel. I replayed DMC3 and 4 right before getting into 5, the slowness of 5 is noticeable.

>Any game after NGB is inferior automatically.
That's where you're wrong.

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>Arkham disproves that on its on.
dante and vergil teaming up is one of the best moments in the series. you being bad and not being able to avoid gettig a hentai tentacle up your asshole doesn't change that

>Also the enemy and boss design show their flaws on higher difficulties.
literally the opposite of true, on higher difficulties the enemies intended design of having a bunch of enemies that lock out one specific option of dantes gets a lot more clear when mechanics like enemy DT in response to how many other enemies have died make you really have to think about who goes down first

shitty bosses like gigapede and leviathan get way more interesting on DMD because the massive health pool means you need to actually learn the risky but high damage tactics (like reflecting gigas lightning orbs) in order to get a good rank, vs lower difficulties where just mashing triangle and jumping away when the boss glows is good enough

5 = 3>1>4>2 Trish>2 Lucia>DmC>2 Dante

I'm 100% certain if you did a side by side comparison of 3, 4 and 5 rebellion combos they'd all be the same

Compared to 3 they were.
Id rather be locked into one GOOD style than be able to swap between 5 mediocre ones.

I just saidt that people have the right to like V and/or Vergil are you stupid ? And what you want to be true and what is true is completely different, you have to realise this.

> I don't see you bitching at the people who shit on V all the time.

Do you know me by any chance ? Do you know each and every post I make ? Avoid presuming things it makes you look even more dumb. You clearly are the one insecure here. But if it helps you sleep at night then be my guest.

I know you're right realistically. A game company surprising everyone with a cool free extra feature makes no sense from a money making standpoint at all.

The only way it could make any sense is as a PR stunt to boost their image but any possible boost to their popularity cause by such a stunt is probably not gonna end up being more profitable in the long run compared to just straight up making money.

Coping anti-4 fags.
The environments are at their best in 4.

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>gameplay is just combat, only combat, nothing factors into gameplay other than combat
I guess that means DMC4 is better than DMC3 and DMC1

>The chess boss
that was great fag

4 > 3 > 1 > 5 > 2
I started with 1.

that's a whole lot of words trying to skirt around the fact that the point I was making is correct
DMC4 Vergil has no actual changes outside of damage values, and they both end up doing the same shit over and over again

Vergil is cool, but he's a novelty compared to Dante who has a lot more substance to his gameplay.
but go ahead and cry more.

until you leave the castle, and everything after it is shit

technically 4 is worse in that regard because Dante plays worse than 3

looks like something from oblivion

werent all the monster hunter world big updates free?

Correct

Poor Vergil fans, how will they ever recover. People love V more than Vergil. All the girls on his son Nero dick instead of his AND on top of that. He got his ass beat by his 1/10th demon son in DT form while he was in fuggin SDT. The absolute state of Vergil.

there's such a thing as objectively bad, user
not just subjectively bad relative to something worse

Calm down, Vergilfujo. Your fave is still decently popular with tumblr even if V is more popular, don't worry.

I don't have to presume everything, Vergilfujos/atuists like you shit on V all the time and I don't see anyone getting triggered over it, yet when someone points out V's superiority in anything, you get a triggered responder like you kek

You are the insecure ones. V lives in your heads rent free, crying about him every thread or anytime someone posts about him.

youtu.be/qp9gJoHRj2s

Sometimes I just sit in the Gallery for this.

Then you're very stupid. Turbo is how they're going to justify the next-gen port 'complete' editions just like with 4SE.

Where did all these 4 apologists come from?

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I tried explaining this to them before the game came out and even after the game came out they STILL don't realize how slow DMC5 is.

It goes beyond the basic combos, it's when you change weapons, styles, or make up your own combos when it slows down. You can watch any of your favorite combo autists' videos and you'll see it's way slower than old DMC3/4 combo videos even without turbo turned on.

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what else is gameplay in a pure action game like DMC? solving absolutely braindead puzzles or suffering through terrible platforming?

>DMC4 Vergil has no actual changes outside of damage values, and they both end up doing the same shit over and over again
this isn't true at all timings, and animations from attacks are completely different.

>critically pointing out flaws
>im right youre wrong
>why
>because youre a retard
>but you didnt prove why
>yes i did this is why
>but thats literally fucking wrong
>no u
>critically pointing out flaws
Don't try and act like a majority of this thread isn't people just throwing shit at each other with no real points, faggot.

You guys want some juicy info?

DMC5 will be getting some other free additions following the Bloody Palace and Divergence Updates:

Dante and Nero will get "Coatless" and "Classsic Color" Alternate outfits, while "V" will get a "Motivated" Alternate color scheme.

A Turbo mode that increases the game's speed by 15% will also be coming.

I'm not gonna get into this mess of an argument, i'm just going to state facts here, and then you can break them down.

1-Thematically, Itsuno makes DMC games aping the cheesines of american pop culture trough a japanese lens, it's a core capcom "signature" element, not just his, that you can also find in all RE games.
2-When it comes to DmC, Tameem had a certain aestetic in mind, but the people that really pushed for it to be committed in that direction were higher ups at Capcom. The entire team working on DmC expressed concerns but were spurred into making DmC what you saw post release because CAPCOM WANTED IT and PUSHED FOR IT because they truly believed that's what westerners wanted, because they have a very aproximative understanding of western culture and tought that westerners could understand this shit better than they did.
3-Aside exceptions, all video game developers will always congratulate each other on finished projects, because they understand the amount of hard work that goes into making a game, regardless of fan reception, Itsuno praising the game doesn't mean much, even the (much beloved by a lot of people on Yea Forums) twitter shitposter supreme Kamiya-sama praised DmC openly.

Only two people were truly invested in DmC.
Tameem, with the possibility of becoming a rockstar dev trough this project and his visual ideas, and Capcom execs, thinking that a "western" game for "westerners" would reinvigorate DMC as a series from the shortcoming of japanese misunderstanding of western culture, not understanding that the cheesiness was part of the appeal.
Btw, they STILL don't understand how to really approach making something "western", thus why you can see all their new games have characters saying "shit" and "fuck" every 10 seconds in their dialogue, they're basically winging it and don't fully understand (thematically) why people in the west liked games such as RE1-3 and DMC1 and 3 so much

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Nah, 3>4 on that part. I have more fun with Dante with nothing unlocked in 5 than fully unlocked Dante in 4

How do I play Dante efficiently? Am I supposed to switch dynamically between styles and weapons? I've got the Rebellion moveset down by now, but I'm having a hard time getting used to his other weapons and I mainly use Swordmaster and Royalguard.

either bandwagoners who started with 4 or a very dedicated autist

i thought it was beyond stupid that they made his beard, and eyebrows dark in 4. made no sense.

>DMC4 Vergil has no actual changes outside of damage values
aerial rave is the shitty DmC animation instead of the huge disjointed double slash (which dmc4 dante has a much smaller version of in this game)
he can charge beowulf punches
he can have sword tutu out while using other sword formations which means theres absolutely no reason to not have the circle of stunlocking out at all times
he no longer has his unique yamato taunt
he has a bunch of crazy shit like DT rapid slash and midair stinger that makes him a billion times easier to play
his teleport is almost instant and extremely spamable, if you mash the button as the snake boss is flying around the camera can barely keep up with you
he has an invincible cutscene super move

this game is gorgeous
>the fortuna docks
>the snowy mountain
>the castle interior
>the jungle floor
the tragedy is that that's all there is in the game
sure beats the samey corridors of DMC3 though when it comes to sightseeing.

I'm here.
He's so fucking cool. Probably because he's embodiment of best Vergil side

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No he plays better because you can switch styles, which means you can make better combo videos which means the entire game is better than everything before it because fuck literally every aspect of gameplay other than combat, gameplay is 100% combat and nothing else is important

And you're still here sucking Tameem's shaved cock. Get a life.

fuck off larper

>Malphas
Retard

Nice fair comparison using glitches and turbo

Man I wish I could be this retardaded; I’d be in record books.

not being able to completely cancel some animations is a deliberate design choice to avoid autism like guard flying

DMC4 would need guns that don't shoot balls of wet paper at enemies when you're more than 5 feet away from them in order for this to be true

>My human side is so shit, let me throw it away
>V ends up being better than Vergil in every way

Instant karma

All of them were accompanied by microtransactions and the big one will be a paid expansion. MH follows a different marketing pattern, it’s a ‘living game’

t.chickenenthusiastkfcfanatic

>until DMC5
not only does it not look as good (not talking about graphics here), but the majority of levels are hallways with only a few exceptions

Hes not even doing damage this is pointless, useless, and foolish

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Kek. Please post more hot and sexy Urizen.

5, can't throw monsters through buildings in 3.

>critically pointing out flaws as in "I don't like this thing therefore it's shit"

don’t bother, they don’t see how enemy design, level design, traversal mechanics etc impact gameplay

>Overall package ratings
>3 > 4 > 1 > 5 > 2
pretty good taste

also, people neglect to mention how bad the cameras were in DMC games prior to 4.

Literally no fun allowed

I LIKE BOTH

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nice strawman

my main take away from DMC5 is that I was right when I said that buster was overpowered god of war bullshit in 4, which is why they nerfed it in this game

And it slows and dumbs the game down.

It's not a comparison, just a reminder. DMC5 is slow as hell regardless.

Fuck you it looks cool. Meanwhile this is cool in DMC5. Yawn.

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I played 3 ages ago when it came out and can't remember shit, also didn't play any other of the series, can I play 5 and understand the story?

But you have to pick one

the level design wasn't good but it almost never is in a DMC game.
But like says, it has the most awe-inspiring *environments* on the whole of the series.
It's very important to use correct terms here.

he almost looks like vergil there is that really the dmc5 model?

The chess fight was kino

Rebellious, aren't you?

>Liking games

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Must be blind, I like how yall constantly cherrypick the photos specifically where he's looking down because you know in a clear shot facing forward, he looks nothing like him. Donte is a twink. Nero young, but he still looks like a man, much heavier face.

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>cherry picking

get out of Yea Forums, NOW

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your webm has nothing to do with your point, and no, DMC5 is not dumbed down unless you're some donguri faggot who actually cares about shit like inertia

kill yourself

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The only thing I don't really understand is why did they wait like 3 and a half weeks to put out Bloody Palace when it's clearly just cut out from the base game rather than not being ready yet on launch. There's even an empty row in the main menu reserved for it between two selections. I mean they announced that BP is in long ago. If they wanted to make it look like "guise we're giving you FREE EXTRA CONTENT" and earn good boy points they could have announced it for the first time right after release.

>You are the insecure ones.
>Says the fujo who constantly tries to convince herself that anyone outside of her Dumblrite circlejerk gives a shit about V by shouting it ouy every single thread and never backs the claim up because she knows deep down that she's wrong
You are fucked in the head. Get out of Yea Forums and go back to Tumblr, you head case. Your kind doesn't belong here.

>projection
typical delusional cockmongler comprehension skills
can't help but equate argumentation with tantrums that aren't actually happening

> Calm down, Vergilfujo. Your fave is still decently popular with tumblr even if V is more popular, don't worry.

You are crazy, seek help. Only insecure bitches like you think that the popularity of a character is something that matter. But you know what ? Since you seem not only dumb but also completely irrational, I will leave you there in your own little world. Because obviously you don't have the mental ability to have coherent thoughts and discussions.

was good until those awful lyrics

god I fucking hate boomers so much

Why aren't you posting actual visual evidence instead of just talking then? That move has the same recovery as the opening Pandora move

Add inafune as the other person who was invested in this and this is on point. People have forgotten that his smucks Gregaman and his lackey were pushing DmC PR hard

Utterly incomparable.

3 is a more serious story giving background to DMC1 and the gameplay is far more free (and broken) in terms of things like being able to cancel any animation into royal guard (including roll/jump iframes) but also more limiting in that you can only use 1 style and 2 weapons at a time. The level design also involved a lot of puzzles and backtracking.

5 is pure fanservice top to bottom with linear level design, a heavier focus on variety instead if every single thing being ultra OP

They're both the best at what they do.

>noooooooooo moves shouldn't have recoveries I should be able to fly around the screen without any chance of being punished throwing out moves instead of thinking about when I use them
take some ritalin and play DMC1 you ADD nutcase

Nevan is better than the Qilphoth roots, and the only reason you say Nevan is worse is bc you forgot about it because it was so boring

literally when you've seen one level of DMC3 inside the tower, you've seen them all

Proper corridors are better than "free roam" with a singular route to complete the mission and everything else being a waste of time. Not to mention, 1 and 3 manage to have way more backtracking than 4 despite the latter making you run it backwards.

>tfw 5 will filter 4fags out of the fanbase
feels good man

Yes user, i don't disagree with you.
There's still DmC elements in DMC5.
That doesn't mean DMC5 isn't a fantastic game and has tight as fuck gameplay especially, but we're not ready to have this discourse on Yea Forums.
Yea Forums works in a very black and white mindset, if they like something, it has to be 100% spotless and any form of criticism is seen as a personal attack.

I can still consider DMC5 a great game but take one look at nu-Nero or the visual design of V and immediately understand that elements of DmC haven't fully gone away, regardless from the fact that DMC5 is a million times better as a game and a proper, decently built DMC game, unlike DmC.
Yea Forums will be ready to discuss this in a year or two, until then, wait.

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You will exist to give him strength. How fortunate to serve such divine purpose.

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Yes. REengin and specifically Dan's gigachad jaw aren't kind to his in-game face.

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>V is not popular
>yes he is
>p-popularity doesn't matter!
>stop being so insecure and also please stop saying mean things about Vergil it makes me upset

COPE

>QTEs

Am I wrong? No I'm not, both webms are cool but in completely different ways. Nuro's new combo tech is cool but it's absolutely nothing like DMC3/4 with its super anime aesthetic.

>I'm crap so it's not dumbed down
Nice argument.

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Why fight? I love both.

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>
Plus, they know Vergil sells extra copies, he was used as a selling point for the Special Edition of 3, he was used as a selling point for the Special Edition of 4, they used him as a selling point for paid DLC in DmC.
he's also a selling point in the re-release of mvc3 and the """sequel""" to project x zone

I'm convinced the main reason vergil isnt in MVCI is because the game died before they could announce him as DLC

both are masterpieces
i'd have to put 5 over 3 just because 3 has multiple THAT levels
>leviathan
>orichalcum fragment hunt
>CUBES
>having to go through the gear room and the sawblade hallways so many times
that said 3 will always be better just because it had playable vergil and 5 didn't/won't

>TFW we'll never get another game with the GOAT tier environments of 4

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The Arkham fight takes away your DT and style, it disempowers you massively for a hype moment.

I almost find it hard to believe this husbandowar isn't made by a samefagging autist desu.

All of these, the V pet remixes and Elder Geryon as well.

I forgot about those, you’re right

Well I hate Capcom a lot less now for the model, It's the movie game bullshit that I have to hate now.

I though Dante killing Nico's father and Vergil being Nero's dad would have a bigger thematic importance, especially with Lady hanging around.

DMC5's plot is so bad.

take your meds

>There aren't any weapons that require you to stay in Swordmaster to get any use out of in 5
FTFY

He is perfect in game wtf

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so the story in DMC5 was pretty clearly rewritten at some point, right? why does balrog look IDENTICAL to urizen?

your style is vergil doing a shitload of damage at all times

Yeah, the Vergil posters make it really obvious because they always say the same things.

>suffering through terrible platforming?
In my opinion the platforming in DMC is so bad because there's basically no fucking physics to accommodate it
The standards haven't advanced since 2000 fucking 3

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>before 5
>no one gives a flying fuck about the environments in DMC4 or the level design in DMC3
>after 5
>people act like DMC3 was the gold standard in level design and DMC4 had the most beautiful looking environments of any game ever

I like 5 more, but both are great. The dynamic between Vergil and Dante and how Vergil progresses alongside you is really well executed in 3 and carries a lot of the game, not to say it's not fun outside of the stuff with Vergil, but that does go a long way for it. I think the reason I prefer 5 is because I have always been put off by replaying 3 and anytime I do replay it I either drop it, or put it on hold for ages because there's so many pieces of it that are just not fun in the slightest and make the game so much less enjoyable than it could otherwise be. I've gotten to the Arkham fight and dropped the game on three different playthroughs, even with Vergil 3 being right after it and that usually being half my motivation to start replaying the game to begin with, the Arkham fight is just so godawful that I always just stop playing because I hate it so much. With 5 I immediately went to replay it once I finished, I'm replaying it again now and I'll probably replay it again in the future and there's nothing at all like some of the shit in DMC3 to put me off from it, it's just the good stuff.

>Vergilautists shit their pants about V every single thread

This has been going on since Yea Forums called Vergil ugly for two days. They are upset V is prettier and more popular with girls than their fave. Like they have PTSD or something.

He is hot damn

This. Vergil could probably do it to Dante or Nero if he wanted and they were willing [unsure of unwilling transformations because it's not shown. could be important]

to be fair donte's design isn't really the problem with the game, and yes nero's look may be a shot at him, not trying to be a rip off

I always liked 4 a fair amount. It has its problems but I liked many of the enemies better than 3 and style switching was a rad improvement. It has better cutscenes than 5 in my opinion. 5 has too many "guys standing around and talking" ones and not enough "Dante throwing Lucifer spikes flamboyantly at a hellgate" ones.

Also despite the "omg same game twice literally unfinished" problem it managed to have a bunch of neat locales such as city, jungle, snow mountain, castle, laboratory etc. that were all more interesting to look at than the tree shit in 5.

The problem is that 5 is basically "4 but way better" in terms of gameplay so 4 kinda loses its place. 3 is different enough that you can still play it and have fun whereas playing 4 just feels like playing a shitty version of 5.

I agree. I wish more games took a look at prince of Persia for platforming in an action game.

(you)

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It's a common myth on Yea Forums that Inafune pushed for the "dark era" of Capcom.
In reality all he said is that he saw the bigger production values of the western market and felt like the japanese video game industry had shortcomings compared to what the west was doing.

He never specifically said that they should've fucked up the gameplay of Capcom games, just that the western projects felt massive in scope compared to AA japanese projects.
Capcom misunderstood what he was talking about and how to approach it, because Capcom most of the time don't have a clear idea what the fuck they're doing and they'll just kneejerk to specific trends trying to capture an audience.
The newer games such as REmake 2,. MHW and DMC5 still very much folllow Inafune's "let's try to appeal to the western audience" mindset.
The main difference is that now they're more balanced and actually take care of the gameplay aspect first.
If anything, these last 3 games are EXACTLY what Inafune was talking about, and Capcom didn't understand how to approach this style until now.

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DMC5's variety isn't as striking as DMC4's but it's still there. However, the main reason I place is at the top is the overall mission layout. DMC5's levels actually promote exploration without forcing it. DMC5 also offers several routes to completion for a few missions.

>This level of cope

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MOMMY

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>Still hasn't proven that V is popular at all

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nevans best moves are all in the defualt moveset (air play, reverb, jam session)

swordmaster just makes it so you don't need to use anything else besides beo for dive kicking

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it's called a demonstration, or showcase

fuck you you take one of his bad shot user, it's not fair !

What debate?

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>enemy design, level design, traversal mechanics
If you're going to bat for 3 with those arguments it's going to be a yikes.

Agreed, but he's face looks weird in some certain angles and lights and it's a fact. Like he's got a small face on a huge skull or just a botox-face. Thankfully, it's a rarety.
Still the best boi tho.

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>anime aesthetic
now you're just exposing yourself as a retard

I like the things that were reused from DmC. DmC wasn't wholly bad and had some good ideas to it, some of them might've even been Itsuno's own ideas. The gameplay wasn't anywhere as polished as 4, but it was way more intuitive, had fresher ideas behind it and felt a lot more natural; and I think 5 benefitted from that. 4 felt like a game that is only good if you practice at it and learn it, while 5 feel satisfying right out of the bat without sacrificing depth; everything feels well developped, balanced and varied.

To be honest Nero was always a shitty character tho.
Nero and V are both shitty characters.
There's a reason 90% of the hype webms, gifs and videos out there are about Dante, and people want Vergil so much.

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Castle had some rad shots but it had too many empty areas.

Both have short hair? and not even that is the same as Nero just has normal short hair, Donte got that hipster skunk hairstyle with the sides shaved off lmao, other than that, their phenotypes are completely different. That's a reach.

Samefag.

how can one man be this wrong?
there's like an entire cerberus moveset locked behind swordmaster, and balrog gets some big shit like real impact and breakdancing, or cavaliere which gets a whole bunch of extra moves and a big ass launcher

The Nero/V level doesn't have any collectables you fucking idiot

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This right here.

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True .

They're still usuable without swordmaster.

While I fully agree with you, history has forgotten who Inafunes top PR department was
youtube.com/watch?v=oeg_Xp1wGM0

youtube.com/watch?v=jVXMNY0h8fI

These videos speak volumes of what influence he had on the company moving forward with the western market. He was also the one who along with the RE6 developer,stated in 6 that they wanted the call of duty audience. But I also 100% agree that Capcom back then really just didn’t get what the message was all about. It’s crazy that they bounced back this fat after the whole SFxT DLC on disk fiasco, the glitchfest oh RE6 that needed 2 patches immediately, DmC and DR3 which was buggy as fuck on release.

DMC3 was never considered the gold standard, DMC4 and DMC5 just have worse level design which is why they both got shit for it. Keyword being both, it's not a new thing to be contrarian against DMC5.

3 and 4 don't have anime laser beams flying out at every second? Yeah, okay there pal.

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Well of course, Donte LITERALLY is a Nero imitation. They took part of Nero's personality (went overboard with it). Took Dante's combat, mixed it with Nero's and created Donte. Donte bares similarities because he isn't his own character. He's an abonimation of 2 others lol.

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Definitely, I like 5's levels for that, on my first runs through the levels I went through every nook to find the orb stashes.

>The problem is that 5 is basically "4 but way better" in terms of gameplay so 4 kinda loses its place. 3 is different enough that you can still play it and have fun whereas playing 4 just feels like playing a shitty version of 5.
That's what I thought after the first Dante footage of 5. Dante just feels so good in this game.

Now they are trying to convince themselves V isn't popular with girls after bitching about "only fags and women like him" for weeks. The threadly goalposts switching should give them whiplash.

>V is popular with women I hate him stop posting him
>nvm Vergil is the popular one and totally not gay believe me
>no one likes V except tumblr!

Vergil really does have the worst fans.

There are like 4 missions worth map in DMC3 side, not to say the obvious strawman for 5's

Why Dante has chest hair now?

How many "fuck you"s is it going to take for you to realize Nuro is Donte 2.0?

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Nice try homosexual

>characters saying "shit" and "fuck" every 10 seconds
If I have to hear one more mild mannered virgin talking about how cursing is uncommon and unrealistic.

stuff like VFX is based on engine capabilities and none of the stuff in your webm was designed as "anime"
5 has a whole bunch of lighting and particle effects because the RE engine is so great

>The gameplay wasn't anywhere as polished as 4, but it was way more intuitive, had fresher ideas behind it and felt a lot more natural; and I think 5 benefitted from that

people sperg out because it was a reboot, and I understand them, but it honestly wouldn’t make sense for that Dante to have style switching and shit like it in his first new iteration. Plus, I like how every weapon was available at all times, none of the cycling thing, and you could start delay combos with different weapons

>To be honest Nero was always a shitty character tho.

Yeah, but i liked him more in 4 for some reason

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aesthetically, the enemies like Scarecrow, Angelos, and Blitz were awesome too

Kek

fuck the nidhogg hatchling mechanic

Nero > Nuro

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I just wanted to say that I appreciate you guys hitting up the history of past Capcom and keeping it real. It’s astounding how far we’ve all come from Capcom of 2012 until now.

>and totally not gay believe me

Their scrambling to salvage Vergil's "MALE FANTASY image" after people started shipping V/Vergil and Itsuno's gay finisher came out was hilarious. They are so inescure it's not even funny. Insecure homophobes are so textbook, shame Vergil has those in his fandom.

That must have been their worst nightmare after weeks of shitting on V. Itsuno goes ahead and ships him with their fave! KEK

Do you hear voices in your head? Do they tell you everything will be okay if you slit your wrists?

to give credit where it's due that control layout worked completely fine for that game, it just doesn't touch the complexity of actual DMC games

if DmC was some sort of spinoff or a different IP it would've been far better received