An actually replayable rogue-lite

shill me on this.

You can just grab a few foot works or a wraith form or two and then it doesn't really matter where your damage comes from

Fun roguelike that makes you rely on skill and actually using your brain rather than luck (Some RNG but not an overwhelming amount like FTL)

There's a lot of touhou mods so you can play as a cute girl too!

its not that replayable. darkest dungeon and binding of isaac are far more replayable

Attached: 1550143866156.png (253x105, 34K)

How's my build?

Attached: 646570_screenshots_20180404170201_1.jpg (1366x768, 258K)

>early access build
>ascension 0
It's shit

how is darkest dungeon replayable?

i just reinstalled last night. fun game, and honestly it always will be. that rng can piss a nigga off though

Attached: 1518998571907.jpg (1024x1024, 556K)

whats there to replay in dd? its the blandest fucking game in the entire roguelite genre, all upgrades are meager bonuses like in some mmo, and everything the game has to offer you get in a single playthrough.

I really like this picture.

darkest dungeon isn't a roguelite

me too user. that's why I share it.

Attached: lvl1.jpg (500x624, 59K)

How much stuff is in the game now?
I played a while ago when there was 2 characters and beat it with both within 5 hours, and it didnt seem to have any NG+ like altering effects at the time.

3 characters, 20 difficulty levels that ramp up every time you beat the previous one, a short 4th act with an optional final boss, run modifiers, a more polished 3rd act, more relics, mod support, and a lot more
a really good example of early access desu, i somewhat miss the weekly updates now that it's fully released

What happens when you defeat the hearth with every character? Is there really no more progression besides ascension?

it just keep unlocking more card art, but gameplay-wise there's nothing new

the whole unlocking stuff part is pretty minor just to help people feel like they haven't done a failed run for nothing early on

Where is this card art? I never found it

And I'm not really talking about unlocking more stuff, I actually thought there would be a new chapter or a new boss or SOMETHING after you killed the hearth with all 3 like in binding of isaac or something.

There's no such thing as a rogue lite
On the other end of the spectrum the idea that something needs permadeath to be a true roguelike is absurd.

when you look at the cards in the library thing there's a button to see older art for the cards

Is there any good mods for this game? Seems like it'd be pretty easy for people to make cool stuff. Pic unrelated.

Attached: gena.jpg (1200x766, 133K)

roguelite typically refers to things where you still get "some" progression out of every runs (despite losing most of it), like have weapons that you can level up and bring along

although in this game's case, it's more like some things are locked just to give a feeling a progression until you start playing the real complete game

it also doesn't really have much similarities to rogue at all, it's more like inspired from the concept

Wraith form is absolute trash unless you have an artifact or something, the dex ensures you die in a few turns unless you can close things out and that makes it useless except for non boss fights in act 1-2

theres a pretty fun character mod where you play as slime, accompanied with loads of new cards unique for that class

Bullshit my friend. Learning when to play the card is key. If you can end the fight within 3 turns of playing it then you're negating a shitload of damage which you can pour into offense.

not him but you spend a turn playing the card so realistically its 2 turns. and boss fights last easily up to 10 turns so itll be a dead card for a long time. its shit

my modlist, marisa is really fun

Attached: Screenshot_1.png (221x266, 7K)

There's also the turn after it wears off, where if you kill the enemy they can't attack. So it really is three turns

Most of the run is an attempt at avoiding damage, especially with silent who doesn't have much ways to heal. So you can actually use rest site for something other than healing.

and then silent also has a few ways to hold on to a card and wait for when it's needed

of course wouldn't use it early in a fight that I know will last a while, unless desperate and gonna die if I don't

Are these all on steam workshop?

You're passing up on one of the most busted cards in the game, you really need to reconsider what you value if you think Wraith Form is shit.
Consider the fact that most of your fights are hallway fights first, and that it helps immensely with those considering they're shorter fights.
That immediately makes it worth taking. If we evaluate every card on how worthwhile they are on boss fights, you're not going to have a winning deck.
Moreover many bosses have one 'big' turn where they deal a shitload of damage. Champ has execute, Automaton has Hyper Beam, all act 3 bosses just scale out of control eventually. Being able to essentially negate all of this and turn all the blocks you're going to play into attacks is bonkers.
Not to mention that is synergises extremely well with well-laid plans, and that on higher difficulties it increases in value since you're negating even more damage you'd otherwise have to invest in block.

I ha e over 80 hrs played and have yet to slay the spire

Attached: 1550314463891.gif (371x209, 1.54M)

>Champ has execute, Automaton has Hyper Beam
if you need wraith form to keep yourself from dying to those attacks there is 100% chance wraith form will run out and youll just die from the lack of dex because your damage output is not good enough

Not really. Silent is quite shit at scaling compared to ironclad or defect, so unless you're popping a catalyst bomb, you'll quite often need to tank that turn. And not every run can have 3 footworks and an after image, so you have to take what you can get.

yes really. ive played more than my own fair share of silent and wraith form rarely saves me from battle, and has never saved me in the 3rd or final act. youll pick it if its offered after a regular fight but you almost never pick it after boss because 1) almost all other silent rare cards are better and 2) because the further into the game you are the worse it gets

Attached: 1550143866156.png (879x565, 566K)

See that Steam logo next to each one? Use some deductive reasoning

why is that girl wearing such a revealing shirt? you can literally see her flat

this game sucks. i know for certain after playing it for a while

Attached: shit game.png (300x122, 55K)

Where the furry mods at

>1) almost all other silent rare cards are better
Are you joking? Envenom? Alchemize? Grand Finale? Tools of the Trade?
I would argue that After Image is the sole better rare card for the silent. Her rare pool is probably the worst of the 3 classes in my opinion.
>2) because the further into the game you are the worse it gets
That's fucking wrong though, it gets better. You have more energy to play it, more damage to negate, more control to draw into it. Consider how good it is with a low damage deck vs Giant Head, essentially negating 3 turns of its constant massive attacks. Or when Reptomancer shits out 4 swords and attacks for 32 when you haven't drawn your AoE, or when you run into the Transient.

Think of it like Corruption on the Ironclad, it is massively powerful, but doesn't need to be played the first time you see it. It's fine to hold onto it until you need it.

youre kind of just describing how to play the card rather than why its valuable
i dont really think the sentiments wrong, wraith form is a pretty bad card in general post-nerf

i think in room fights, if you play it youll be finishing the fight fast, and if youre finishing the fight that fast its not very valuable to play it to begin with
and then in bosses it spends most of the fight circulating as a curse, and while it can save you from a bad draw, so can quite a lot of other cards that dont put a timer on your ability to kill, something the silent isnt exactly great at

for the most part, i see it as a bailout card for bad decks: you build too offensively or dont get a defensive engine and you need to to survive early act 2, but past that point it really struggles to maintain its value, i NEVER find myself playing it after i stabilize mid-late act 2 because i have consistent defense and such a strong burst defensive option isnt necessary unless im like going for perfects and trying to avoid chip at all cost

on higher ascension though, i think it retains value far better than other defensive cards, because its value is flat rather than scaling down with the increased enemy power
and like, every silent deck is a bad deck in a20, so its pretty much always value, but even so id still much rather have a nightmare or something thats an actual wincon

after image works best with shiv deck, otherwise it's just mosquitoes bites.
Honestly the best card of the silent is not even a rare card, it's just footwork, you have 3 of that upgraded, you're almost certain to survive considering if you're following a deck archetype. Also poison silent is stupidly broken if you get lucky with early card drops.

>i think in room fights, if you play it youll be finishing the fight fast, and if youre finishing the fight that fast its not very valuable to play it to begin with
It assists in ending the fight fast. Biased Cognition is not a bad card because it has a negative 4 turns later, because it assists you in ending the fight. Let's say my win condition is Catalyst, and I want to beat the book of stabbing while taking as little HP damage as possible. My options are to either play Wraith form immediately and pour all my offensive options into poison to prepare for catalyst, or to play 2 or so energy's worth of block cards every turn while tanking chip damage on the side.
It gives you so much freedom to play your key cards it's incredible, and with decks that aren't lucky enough to get 3 footworks it can give a deck 3 free turns to end a fight. Like think for a second about 2 free turns against the heart, that's absolutely huge, that's a single cycle of massive attacks completely negated.

*blocks your card reward screen*

Attached: firebreathing.png (522x750, 308K)

I've been playing this game non stop for 3 days. It's the best rouge like I ever played.

Woke Bloke and the Squall Squad are the best boss.

Whats wrong with that card?

also...

Because the damage is negligible compared to the amount of attacks necessary to be played to make it effective.

the problem is that it's complete trash and it's only purpose is to trigger power synergies and maybe do some shit aoe damage

>rogue lite
why are you using a shitty marketing term as if its a genre description

biased is good because it increases your damage output in addition to giving you more block potential
it also lasts for significantly longer than wraith form and costs 1/3 of the amount of energy
and grants a permanent upside if you have orange pellets or artifact to cancel the debuff

and for a scenario like what you gave, malaise and/or piercing wails would probably be a better and more consistent answer
stabby bois a bitch on a20 though, so again, you take what you can get there

>FTL
>Luck
Take a lool at this shitter

>roguelike

Attached: is it a roguelike.png (3280x2632, 222K)

>shitty marketing term
the term roguelite was coined by totalbiscuit

no it wasn't
it was coined by the makers of Rogue Legacy
Total Biscuit actually shit all over the term, saying it was so nebulous as to include literally anything

it was used way before 2013. are you 12?

I thought it was coined by Northernlion

prove it faggot, especially the part where it was "coined by totalbicuit
saveorquit.com/2018/09/02/article-a-history-of-the-words-roguelike-and-rogue-lite-they-do-have-a-different-meaning/

Attached: rogue lite.png (689x436, 348K)

So if roguelite isn't valid, what would be more apt descriptors for each respective "roguelite"?

>roguelite
not a thing
>roguelike
also not a thing

What the game actually is. I've never actually played Slay the Spire but from the looks of it it strikes me as a turn based dungeon crawler.

its a roguelite

Which is not a genre.

Just call them what they actually are
Immortal Redneck? FPS
Rogue Legacy? Platformer
its not that hard.
The thing is these games are just terrible. Their "permadeath" aspects (which they don't actually have, almost all feature some type of progression even if you die) only exist to pad out the subpar gameplay and lack of assets

>you can't actually build your deck because it's all decided by the loot of the first 2 acts
>you can get fucked at act 3 since all bosses are designed to hard counter most except one build
hard pass. At least other roguelikes allow to compensate bad RNG by game skill

>game card pick is random
>BRAH JUST GET THOSE CARDS LMAOOOOOO
why do people who never played a game defend it so violently?

it is for most people.

I dunno why Yea Forums has such a trouble with things moving on. roguelike and roguelite have become genres. and its time to deal with it user.
if you go to slay the spires steampage right now you'll find both of those in the genre tags.
both of those are roguelites.

shiv decks can beat time lord and power decks can beat bird bros, the fact that those decks are tested just encourages more careful deck building
the only type of deck that i would say just doesn't work as intended is discard, so much work for so little payoff

No, I don't think you understand. Roguelite as a genre has literally no meaning to it. You could call literally anything that has a procgen element to it a roguelike. It's a shitty vague term with no meaning. Starbound is a roguelite. No Man's Sky is a roguelite. Destiny 2's Osiris DLC is a roguelite.

It literally means nothing.

>It literally means nothing.
randomized maps, permanent death but with permanent progression. wow that was hard

keep those on a disc, back of the oven, let me help you find them.

So then not Slay the Spire, Trash Squad, Nuclear Throne, and so on? All of which are tagged with it?

>permanent death
>but not actually xd wow how do you old granpas play those old games where you lose everything if you die haha

Attached: 1489320351121.jpg (1280x720, 49K)

>Slay the Spire
literally has permanent progression. not the guy you replied to btw i havent played those 2 other games

The fuck are you talking about, have you not played the games because all of them have those.

No, they don't.

if there is meta progression its not permadeath

Attached: 1539967847075.jpg (267x323, 7K)

Are you right in your head?
All of the have randomized layouts.
All of them end your current playthrough when you die
All of them have unlocks you get in between playthroughs

>Randomized layouts
>end your playthrough when you die
>unlocks between playthroughs
so what you're saying is
they have nothing in common with rogue

Are you ok? Did you forget your pills today or did you take too many?
We are talking about this post Try to keep up.

Saw the thread for this yesterday, was in my torrent backlog so decided to just give it a go, its absolutely great, put in probly 6-7 hours in the past day. Beat it with the huntress or whatever, is there anything left to do really other than play through a win once with the 2 others and then beat the heart, is that all there is, I know you unlock more cards, but I feel like I've seen enough and the cards come slowly

>hate NYC
>still want to live there for the off chance of meeting Keanu on the subway

In order to distinguish games which employ lighter rogue elements, the term rogue lite was created
It's actually a relatively new sub genre with titles like sts, ftl
Actual rogues are stuff like adom, stone soup iirc

Ascension mode, basically higher difficulties counted separately for each character..
To put it into perspective the best no-life players that get nearly 100% winrate on basic difficulty have a 20-30% winrate on the highest ascension level.

>I don't want to learn the game

>It's actually a relatively new sub genre with titles like sts, ftl

Not that new.

Attached: baroque.jpg (1024x768, 168K)

Hmm, dunno if I'll continue on with it, I more started the game because it was on my backlog, now I've had fun and seen what its about I think I'll just move on

So basically it's like corruption in that if you use it you die unless you have an artifact or the fight ends very quickly, which is exactly what I said
It's a trash card, absolute shit compared to demon form or echo form the other characters can get, and trash compared to the ethereal cards you can get from the event

Relatively, in regards to roguelikes

By being incredibly mundane and boring. I think I quit playing after my 3rd successful run. Game would've been a lot more fun if you didn't start with the same basic hand every time.

If you guys are genuinely having trouble with hallway fights I'll just advise you alto find a different game that's more your speed, like candy crush, wraith form is fucking awful without debuff removal

>he thinks demon form is good
>calls wraith form shit

Did you reach ascension 5 yet?

>thinking envenom/alch/tot are bad
Holy shit, confirmed that you are retarded

>So basically it's like corruption in that if you use it you die unless you have an artifact or the fight ends very quickly, which is exactly what I said
What the fuck, corruption + feel no pain is one of the strongest things Ironclad can do. Playing every block card in your deck for free is nuts.

demon form is pretty fantastic at all levels of play friend
its barricade that sorta falls off at higher ascension

If you haven't had your shit kicked in by the first few act 2 fights on A20 you're a liar. The two thieves alone are almost impossible to block fully against at that stage.

It's great but it puts a limiter on your life if you don't have a dead branch, wraith form is like corruption of corruption are all your cards in ~3 turns and didn't make skills free to boot

It undeniably is at lower asc and is arguably decent in boss fights
Still, doing nothing for 3 energy and it's slow wind up kills the demon. You do not have the opportunity to set yourself up that easily anymore.
Also, everything demon form does for you, limit break achieves as well, without crippling a whole turn. Unless you are running 30+ Card decks that is

Barricade remains fine on paper, but his block doesn't scale enough (at all)to effectively retain block against high asc enemies.

>It's great but it puts a limiter on your life if you don't have a dead branch
Yes, which is why you don't play it until you need it. Corruption is excellent in hallway fights since the fights are short, and can be played later in Boss fights to provide extra block when it has scaled up and to allow you to convert your enemy into damage more easily to end the fight quicker. Obviously finding the timing for this can be finicky, but as you play more you can more easily calculate how much you need.

In this sense Wraith Form and Corruption provide a similar purpose. You're essentially thinking 'from this point on the boss has outscaled me, so I will provide this temporary bonus to myself and end the fight before it kills me'. If your Silent deck is good enough to block everything with its 5 footworks then this will seem irrelevant, but not every deck can do so. As the difficulty level increases the stress on your deck to perform increases, so to take block out of the equation entirely for a few turns is invaluable.

well thats what you want it for, the 1-card wincon in long fights
but a limit break is fine too

>Finally got A20. That was a fun little romp
>Check the playtime
>+100 hours

HOW IN THE ACTUAL FUCK

A18+ is pure bullshit so it inflates playtime significantly for the last 3 Ascension levels.

True. Ideally it should've been the base game and all that other shit "practice mode".

A15 used to be the highest level, but more hardcore players wanted higher. A20 is just ballbusting for the average player to be honest, your card priorities and knowledge need to be top tier to even get a 50% win rate.

>spam defence and have one win card

i dont really like this game.
what are some rogue-lites worth playing? the only on i can think of is darkest dungeon

Attached: 772px-Vincent_van_Gogh_-_Head_of_a_skeleton_with_a_burning_cigarette_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg (772x1023, 219K)

18 is by far the biggest jump in the entire Ascension climb, everything before that feels like training wheels.
The changes to elites are huge, especially ACT1 elites get absolutely brutal. Without really good card picks Lagavulin and Nob will simply slaughter you.

Is this unfun and grindy like Darkest Dungeon or fun and the right kind of challenging like FTL?

i still am not able to beat the game with the defect
whats the best build for it

At least Laga can be beaten with the default deck. Early Nob is certain death.

i'm stuck on ascension 19 and 18 with silent and defect respectively
made me realize how much i rely on highrolling a good deck and basically lucked my way to finishing ascension 20 with ironchad

Frost focus is by far the strongest.
Echo form is the strongest card.

man sometimes i go entire runs without seeing a single focus related card
feels bad

It's very fair up to a certain difficulty level, the last couple of Ascension levels are extremely brutal but until that point the game is really well balanced.
It depends heavily on player knowledge though,
knowing what enemy encounters and what events you can run into in each act is essential on higher difficulties.
There's a lot of people that struggle winning at the basic difficulty but after finishing the highest Ascension level and learning the game inside out you will easily get a 90%+ winrate on the normal difficulty.

im 78 hours in but ive only did A5
is there such thing as a tier list for weapons and relics? should i adhere to that or should i just keep bieng a retard and trying to make shitty builds work?

Attached: 1551544169582.jpg (356x251, 32K)

>burning Lagavulin with Metallicize
Pure horror.
One advice i can give you is focus on offense early, A18+ elites are a pure damage race in ACT1 and if you don't have enough damage they will simply outscale you.

Default deck, like strikes and defends only?
No. Just no. 100+ hp, hits for 20 every turn, every debuff cycle robs 2str and dex

i think the problem i have is that the builds i use to win in the later stages (maxing dex and poison or focus frost) are pretty shit damage early
i gotta stop being a greedy fuck

>how to spot the pedo 101

spirelogs.com/

games more about filling requirements in the short term than finding one strong card

knowing what cards are shit can help though

what the hell is this? ghetto sheboons of korea?

Please elaborate!

Attached: __ibaraki_kasen_touhou_drawn_by_cato_monocatienus__d8eb88df131e467cfb81b9e4cebe7a56.jpg (800x800, 136K)

Some are absolutely god-tier-pick-this-and-win (dead branch/corruption on Ironclad), but generally relics are very situational.
For example I had a 3 energy Defect run in which Art of War was probably my key relic (1 energy next turn if you don't play an attack), but it would likely be absolutely irrelevant in an Ironclad or different type of Defect deck.

Relics are organised into rarities though (slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Relics#Common), so take that into consideration. Rare relics are more expensive at shops and you gain exclusively at some events (Colosseum, Mind Bloom, Double Orb Walkers), but just because they're rare doesn't mean they're amazing. Some of my favourite relics (bag of preparation, preserved insect, centeniel puzzle) are commons, while some absolutely shit tiers (Nunchaku, Stone Calendar) are rare.

Some cards are deceptively strong/weak early on in higher Ascension levels.
For example endless agony is a top pick for me early on because it's 8 damage for 0 energy, i would never pick it on acension below 18 but at 18+ i want all the front loaded damage i can get before the first elite fight.
At the same time while cloak and dagger is an absolutely amazing card i would rather pick something more offensive early on in A18+ simply because the shiv will be useless after the first Lagavulin debuff and it buffs Nob into retardation since it's a skill.

While lower asc allows you win with almost anything, later on you need game knowledge at the very least to stand a chance. Not very run allows you to spec perfectly into your archetype. That being said, often you are required to forgo synergistic picks in favor of strong ones.
Also try to keep your deck thinner. It allows you to reach your key cards more consistently. (Fatties can still work nonetheless)

Certain archetypes like discard or hp sacrifice are beyond trash tier. They can enhance your deck in some instances but you will have a very bad type of you center your deck around them

There are also a couple educational youtubers I can recommend:

Jolnrbs: plays very slow and methodical which can put some people off. Has a couple vids where he overexplains every of his decisions

Rhapsody: is a more quirky and faster paced player. By this virtue he is more entertaining. Explains most of his decisions on the fly and is a great example for how flexible you have to be with your picks

What's the biggest noob trap?
For me it's Barricade or Apotheosis.

Damage, going by this thread. You're not going to break the heart on A20 by drawing an endless agony.

Echo form

clash/flex probably

Generally your early damage cards are going to be shit tier lategame no matter what. Nobody is going to be excited about drawing an upgraded Sunder against the heart, but I will pick one almost every time early on so I don't get nob'd

Balance is pointless in a roguelike and generally they work on self enforced challenges and different levels of difficulty from your background. It's a single player game, balance doesn't matter.

Also, stop conflating roguelikes and roguelikes because people will assume you don't know what you're talking about.

Disregarding snecko eye as bad

(Upgraded apotheosis is unironically amazing, tho. There are many higher priority buys nonetheless)

Oh yeah it's probably clash now that I think about it. I usually gloss over the card now because it's an absolutely no-pick in any scenario for me.

Potions are for getting through act 1. Using good cards is for act 2 and 3. Having a guaranteed good hand is for act 4.

Echo form is hilarious tho

How many elites would you take in act 1? I generally try to go pretty heavy which might explain why I need more damage than you.

It is, but newer players try to shove it into every deck when it's only truly worth it in a minority

I don't see how playing key cards twice is worth it in a minority of decks.