Change it back

why would you play a game that has random number generation for damage? Move on.

>Be invisible
>Sneak behind people
>Especially snipers or engies who are more stationary than other classes
>Put crosshair on their head
>uncloak, shoot them in the head for a quick kill and recloak.
>Realize spies are supposed to counter snipers and engies somewhat
>Realize this is actually a pro ambassador comment
>yfw

BRING HIM BACK

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Snipers are crucial for taking out key targets and can affect the whole round and they tend to do it more efficiently than spies who serve the same purpose.

i dont care. there's nothing worse than being insta-killed by someone you couldn't touch and could barely see. the only thing you can do is hope he misses.

why suddenly people are complaining about the sniper?

a youtube eceleb said something?

You have to shoot twice
Enforcer does a better job.
I just want to be able to fight at mid range when I obviously have no clear path to cloak through.

Crit on the headshot has massive damage fallout. The further they are, the less damage it does

Diamondback is broken, Amby nerf was strictly for retarded casualfags.

It WAS viable before the nerf.

In fact, it was pretty much one of the best sidegrades to stock in the game, apart from Winger.
From high level competitive 6v6 right down to the lowest level of miguel.pabdriguez.2006 retard Spies in pubs, you would see an almost perfectly even match of Stock and Ambassador usage rates, with L'Etranger close behind. When the tf2stats.net website was still up, it showed that stock and amby were within 0.1% usage rate of each other.

It obviously didn't need a nerf, and if Valve's issue was it making Spy play too much like Sniper they should have reworked it rather than straight up nerfing it.
And hell, I main Medic, I rarely even used the damn thing on the occasion I played Spy (L'Etranger was my main gun) but I definitely won't now.

You sell fish

Spy counters Sniper.
Can't watch your back all the time while you're looking into a 10FOV scope for three second periods and playing a class who is encouraged to use low mouse sensitivity.
>inb4 hurr durr razorback
Spy can still gun you down with a Revolver in like 2-3 shots, you make him take slightly longer to kill you in exchange for being easier to kill for everyone else.

>educated response
Thank you Medic. I personally was always 50/50 with amby in lobbies before the nerf. I miss the good old days where you didnt have to constantly suicide cloak and pray the scout/pyro isnt spy checking the route you took. You could hang back at mid and try to get some solid peppering damage until the enemy team leaves a clear cloak path to the back lines.

Spy counters Sniper.
But in the minutes it may take to finally get at the Sniper, he will already have killed some teammates. You learn this quick in Lobbies. It's a speed run to the Sniper. And then you need to pray the pyro or scout isnt giving him a quick guard

>2nd fastest class in the game tied with medic
>pocket sniper rifle with none of the movement penalties snipers have to even do headshot damage
>free invisibility or get out of jail free card with speed buff and invisibility to pick your battles
>massive head hitboxes
>skill

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Diamondback isn't "broken" if you're playing against people who are roughly as good as you are.
Standard procedure for Spy against competent players is: "get a stab on a high value target and get killed immediately afterwards". Your gun is a backup in case you miss the stab.
You'll never live long enough as a Spy against smart players to make a meme chainstab and actually get enough 102s to kill people faster, so there's no point in losing 15% damage from your backup weapon.

It's the Phlog of Spy revolvers. It's literally only good for crushing morons and utterly useless against anyone competent. It's also the second least used Spy revolver both in 6s and pubs, after Enforcer (which has a bugged positive stat that doesn't work).

And just when I thought Was the most retarded post in this thread, you came along.
>2nd fastest
Irrelevant
>no movement penalty
Why is this a bad thing? Plus you're generally standing still for a longer distance shot in general
>DR
anyone who uses that is generally casual trash and should be easy to take care of. It's not Viable, and I'm happy about it.
>massive head hitboxes
Just. Wrong. Wtf.
>skill
Yes. Alot.

Please play the game before commenting.

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Nah.

Just remove the damage fall-off aspect. The range restriction to score crit headshots can stay, however.

Engravings give you no tactical advantage

It's currently banned in TF2c.
The chainstab scenario is unlikely(in a competitive scenario). But you know what isnt? Tele kills. Dispenser kills. Killing a lone straggler you usually wouldnt waste your time with. All you need is 2 and you can kill every class easily without fail through body shots minus the Heavy.

youtube.com/watch?v=W-PMEgdnfCI

>Sniper quickscopes should only do 110 damage

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE DON'T TOUCH MY SKILL-INDEXED CLASS

Not an overly terrible suggestion. But at the max range, hitting the headshot would be extremely impressive to do, so nerfing that seems a little irrelevant.
But overrall a good compromise

Shut the fuck up about Snipers. This is an Amby thread.

Hey Yea Forums
yore ugleh

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Technically it was a buff, retards like you don't try to be badass trying to head shot pyros scouts and soldiers anymore, instead you're more likely to run away and live, which is what spy is best at

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reported

I can't believe Valve made it completely useless with their nerfs, it's worse than the stock in every single way now even if you have godlike aim.

Hey fuck you buddy. But you are technically right. That with the DR nerfs really took down alot of Mr. Paladdin fanboys.
But it's kinda time now to revert it back. I need to pepper some demo and medic heads at mid with my Scout flank.

dead game

Wet blanket

Remove shotgun from Soldier.

ded gaem

*puts on Gunboats*
Wow he's still good.

Soldier is a good class but the shotgun makes him unbalanced.

>But you know what isnt? Tele kills. Dispenser kills. Killing a lone straggler you usually wouldnt waste your time with. All you need is 2 and you can kill every class easily without fail through body shots minus the Heavy.
Keep in mind that:

Revolver can already kill every class minus the Heavy and Soldier in 3 bodyshots. In terms of time to kill difference Diamondback is not a huge advantage.
Unguarded teles and Dispensers don't grow on trees, especially not when facing players who are roughly as good as you are as I was saying. It might mean a 10-30 second detour each time, that's a lot of time you spend not chasing actually valuable targets.
If you whiff your crit shot/s, or if you land it but have to face more opponents, then you have a 15% worse Revolver ALL the time. It might save you 2 or 3 shots to kill against one opponent, but it'll make you take an extra shot to kill everyone else you fight.

And the last time I actually died to it in a pub was maybe 2016. When people have had since 2013 to discover it, it's pretty obviously not secretly OP, it's just not good for anything but stomping teams you've already beaten. Like Phlog.

*equips buff banner*
Wow he's still really good

Shotgun removal wont do much.
Rocket jumping is too good.

>Shotgun removal wont do much.
It would make the Pyro, who "counters" Soldier, a stronger pick against him.

Nah that's a retarded opinion.
The patrician opinion is nerf disciplinary action and escape plan so I have a reason to use any other melee ever. Equalizer, Pain Train, Half-Zatoichi, Stock and stock reskins all don't get used because those two melees are too good. They are the only problem with Soldier (and rebuff Righteous Bison).

Imagine still sucking the amby's dick like its a lolipop when you have L'etranger and the fucking sap stab and crit popper.

Learn to be a spy and use a revolver well instead of wanting to be a wandering quickscoping nerd.

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Nobody "counters" Soldier or is countered by Soldier, he's exempt from that whole paradigm.
Even if you take away the Shotgun from Soldier, Pyro doesn't counter him because you can just not feed him rockets until he's so close that consistent reflect prediction is impossible.

You're also correct, I forgot that TF2 is balanced around Soldier.

why do you want pyro's viability to be based entirely around countering one class, instead of being viable on its own merits by buffing it

this is a skill based shooting game, not team based rock paper scissors

*shoots at better angles or picks other targets or coordinates with demoman*
Wow, he's still fucking amazing.

I'm not even a diehard soldier main but the shotgun removal thing is fucking dumb. To even be in shotgun effect range, he'd be in Flamethrower range, and even then, he'd be damaged from non-gunboat rocket jumps, meaning you could probably 1v1 shotgun him.
>but what if he isnt rocket jumping
Retarded, useless soldier
>but what if he has a pocket medic
Not your fight, son. Get a medic duo to fight them or support your pick classes to kill the Medic.

Yes.
S tier: Medic
A tier: Engie/Heavy on defense
B tier: Soldier, Scout, Demo, Sniper
C tier: Pyro, Spy
D tier: Engie/Heavy on non-payload or a/d offense

TF2 is "balanced around Soldier" in the sense he's the game's most balanced class, has no counters, and counters nobody.

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fucking atomizer REEEEEE

VALVE FIX ATOMIZER FUCK WHINY SOLDIERS AND SNIPERS THEY SUCK REGARDLESS FUCK YOU JUST MAKE IT VISIBLE ON HIS BODY WHEN HOLSTERED IF THAT'S THE PROBLEM FUCK YOU FIX IT JUST FIX IT YOU FUCKING DUMBASSES FUCK

Attached: Atomizer_item_icon_TF2.png (1106x725, 252K)

Then how? Pyro has been reduced to wm1 because the endless whine of Soldiers and Scouts.
Degreaser+Flare combo? Nerfed.
Axtinguisher? Nerfed.
Dragon's Fury was perfect. Nerfed.
The only melee which isn't useless is the Powerjack which is solely used as utility
Not to mention the countless counters for flame damage in general.
Flamethrower does too less damage to ambush effectively.

If you want to Pyro to be effective, reduce the the amount of counter first. For example, any Sniper who lets a Pyro that close should be dead, but the new DDS says otherwise.

>200 HP / 300 HP
>Best mobility
>Best side-grades
>Shotgun
>Splash damage, 112 dmg on direct hit

Just use the winger you crybaby it does the same damn thing

>he hasnt discovered suicide Detonator Pyro
MEDIC PICKS FOR DAYSSSSSS
Seriously try it, it's fun.

Degreaser should never have been nerfed.
Dragons Fury is held back by its shitty airblast.
Axtinguisher should have kept the backstab mechanic.

>best mobility
27-89 self damage per jump, plus fall damage, and you lose shots out of your clip.
Scout can be mobile all the time without needing to reload or spend HP, and Demo has way better burst mobility.
>Best side-grades
That means shit all, sorry.
Soldier has 26 unlocks while Medic has only 13, yet Medic is a completely irreplaceable class vital to winning a game, whereas you can replace a Soldier with a Demo/Scout and still win.
>Shotgun
Yes, and?
>Splash damage, 112 dmg on direct hit
Demo has splash as well, with higher damage and no range falloff. Demoman, Heavy, and Scout output more damage on a regular basis than Soldier does.

You also forgot to mention in your post
>lowest clip size/most time spent reloading apart from Sniper
>slow, dodgeable, surfable, reflectable projectiles
>second lowest movement speed in game

Attached: toldier.jpg (3840x2160, 418K)

Just want to say, if you 2 are talking about this in a casual pub context, it means fuck all. Like just stop.
This stuff really only matters in an HL or 6s context

>suicide Detonator Pyro
Go on

FUCKING FAGGOT YOU USED TO BE ABLE TO COMBINE THEM. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. IT MADE SCOUT ACTUALLY THE AGILITY AND MOBILITY MASTER-CLASS. DISPLACING SOLDIER. SO THE SOLDIER MAINS CRIED AND VALVE RUSHED TO APPEASE THEIR HAT-BUYING RETARD BABIES.

>muh self damage
What are medpacks?
>muh shitty side-grades
No class has the same quality of a side-grade like the Fagbox or DH. Quality>Quantity
>demo has splash too!
Since when you can spam the floor with the GL?
>slow projectiles
Are you really trying to snipe a sniper with your RL? Just jump on him and fuck him up lol.
>reflectables
Just hug the Pyro and spam, you'll outtank him easily.

>HL
Pyro is a bitch of the Medic and is solely for checking and reflecting
>6s
Maybe only on last for denying uber.
>muh comp
TF2C is also a pub

Balance matters for pubs a little bit. I'm and I don't know what context the guy I'm replying to is talking in, but these downsides of Soldier apply to both formats.

When would you have ever needed both retard.

>SO THE SOLDIER MAINS CRIED
only one crying here is you my autistic friend

Just to clarify, TF2C refers to TF2 competitive or TF2Center?
If it's the latter, you're flat out wrong

Center is literally a pub. Just because you play comp formats doesn't make it comp. Now fill up that empty medic slot or do you really want to waith another 15 minutes until that roamer leaves?

Honestly, if someone is busting your ass with this shit then they could probably be busting your ass harder on Scout or Sniper.

I never saw the issue, I'd much rather have this in the game than something as dumb as the Diamondback

And opinion discarded.
>the medic slot joke
You may be ass at TF2 but your comedy is very good. Maybe focus on that.

>needing the crutch'enger
Manage your cloak proper-like you fucking retard. L'Entranger is the biggest band-aid for a shit class in the game

Not an argument.

I still can't believe that medic can snipe better than spy thanks to the crossbow. And also why can sniper have access to a great melee weapon when he's supposed to be long-range, but heaven forbid spy gets something that even remotely raises his skill ceiling.

there are actually plenty of places scout simply cannot reach, otherwise, or which he can only reach with the force-a-nature. which of course soldier can easily reach. winger is actually pretty useless without the atomizer, it doesn't unlock many more jumps at all (makes a few very tight jumps much easier, but doesn't actually make much of anything newly possible).

hat-buying retard baby smug after daddy robin cleaned his nappy

Neither was your post. It's a bad opinion and anyone who has played both pubs and TF2C can clearly tell there is a massive difference.

>What are medpacks?
They are...
Not everywhere that you are all the time?
Confined to a 10 second respawn timer?
Shared among a team of 6-12 people?
Only normally capable of healing half HP or less?
Needed to heal actual combat damage you've taken, so using it to heal rocket jump damage is still an opportunity cost?

If you have 200hp, rocket jump twice for 80 self damage, then take 60 combat damage, then go get a medium health pack, you're going to be at 160HP instead of 200HP because of the opportunity cost of rocket jumping. Health packs do not make that go away.

>No class has the same quality of a side-grade like the Fagbox or DH
How is that supposed to have any impact on Soldier's viability
>Are you really trying to snipe a sniper with your RL?
No? Why are you strawmanning? Scout can easily dodge your projectiles is the point.
>Since when you can spam the floor with the GL?
Okay so you're just shitposting now? You don't have to resort to shitposts to have a discussion about TF2, just ask the thread a question.
For anyone else, the correct answer he's obviously glossing over is "stickybomb launcher". Now no more (you)s for shitposts.

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>hat-buying retard baby smug after daddy robin cleaned his nappy
I'm hearing those tears flow freely, it's never getting unnerfed bitchboy
and if you knew anything about the game you would know robin walker doesn't work on tf2 anymore and hasn't for about 5 years

Basher jump + winger will give you a ton of height without having to give up the scattergun.

Best, most fun weapon loadout for Demoman, Yea Forums?

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/k/ here, anyone notice how there is no way to open the cylinder and reload the revolver?

>Soldier is a good class but the shotgun makes him unbalanced.
You sound like a Pyro shitter furious a soldier dicked you with it

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yeah quite a few tf2 weapons are like that unfortunately. it's either that Valve was going for a cartoony wacky feel or (more likely) Valve's originally Seattle-based employees are nogunz and know little about how guns work, even if they manage to make satisfying gunplay

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Through sheer force, the Spy flicks the Ambassador cylinder open and reloads it by slapping it with his hand.
Truly amazing.

>make sniper rifle old amby
Fucking retard

The funny part is you don't even need shotgun to shit on pyro.

>He is a butthurt pyrofag
I fucking knew it, newsflash you F2P baby Pyro is not supposed to counter soldier and never has, Soldier IS your counter, just as Pyro counters spy

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Pyro doesnt even counter Spy as strongly as Soldier and Scout does desu. Revolver kiting a Pyro is very easy.

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parachute+sticky jumper+pan

>Soldier IS your counter
the only class soldier counters is an unaccompanied medic
he has no specific advantage over any other class that they don't have an answer to

Do you ever listen to yourself? You claim to want skill to be rewarded, but then you immediately turn around and bitch that Spy is "too risky" to play normally. The damage falloff is more than reasonable in close-mid range, and that's where Spy is supposed to be making his kills to begin with. Don't bitch and moan over your crutch being removed when it's your own fault for being too "predictable" to use it now. Just switch to Sniper if that's how you want to play the game.

>Viable.
>use drops 50% after the fucking nerf.

Stock was always better but atleast I could deal with engineers better with it then simply running up to the nest and needlessly dying because the engineer has people patrolling and the ability to knock my sappers off. Spies literally lost an option.

Not him but people are entirely justified in wanting Ambassador's nerf reverted. The nerf to headshots now means that there's rarely a situation which occurs where you'd rather have Ambassador than just Revolver.
Its niche was long range, and that's gone; now blindly spamming with Revolver allows for a much more reliable dps than trying to land headshots with Amby.

>risky movements is skill
Retard.
>You HAVE to suicide dive to kill!!! Datz da R00lz
Retard.
>Your revolver that is entirely based on aiming skill is a crutch
Mega retard
>go play sniper
Somewhat valid arguement if the amby was truly a sniper weapon.

I never said it's "predictable" to use. Its garbage and outclassed in every way by Stock now.
You're an absolute mouth-breathing moron and I'm surprised your keyboard didnt short circuit from all the drool coming out your mouth. Play the fucking game.

*kills you*

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So, how long until this game is officially dead?

Probably another decade, barring some miracle like Valve getting back into shape and making a sequel or the fan community of the game making a sequel.

You're a moron. I'm saying that you are the one who is being too predictable, especially if you think that every outing as the Spy in close range has to be a risky suicide dive. Again, if you just want long-range aim to be rewarded, then play Sniper. You just really don't understand the Spy well enough.

The patrician choice is targe, booties, caber

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Loose canon, tide turner, eyelander here.
I wish the other shields had control. I miss the VJoy days.

I have the most fun with booties and stickies and skullcutter, it gives me a crutch with booties HP to make up for my lack of nade aim, then raw damage with stickies, and skullcutter crits for anyone who gets close

Kill yourself. You're not even worth an argument, you assblasted piece of shit sniperbad.
The ambassador is literally worse in EVERY situation than revolver now, even long-range. It's a worthless weapon that's only for memes now, and it's because of faggots, TURBO worthless NIGGERFAGGOTS like you that made it like that, despitei t being perfectly fine for years and years as it was.

My only issue with this is that it would make it harder for snipers to kill things. A faster ramp up to a charged shot/ damage increase would help this.

Stay perpetually mad, spyfags.

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change it back to the pre-speedboost version

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Haven't played in years but used to main spy. What happened to this weapon?

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They nerfed it so that the crits you get from headshotting someone are affected by range, making it weaker the farther you are

"""at range"""" meaning scatter gun range

In any comp match, a close range outing is a suicide. This is a fact. Spy is regarded as one of the worst characters in the game. This is partly to do with Sniper being better at everything he does.

If we're talking pubs, the most you miss out on is potentially sniping a braindead engie who built at a bad angle.
In comp, you miss out on actually being able to contest areas properly with a flank, being forced into making a risky dive that you otherwise could wait out without being useless.

You're not Sniping with the ambassador because of the Cooldown and 102 damage that goes with it. You're generally peppering and enjoying not having to constantly suicide dive for a medic pick.

has a range limit
within that range it has damage falloff
so you won't do 102 damage unless you're standing right next to someone

not even going to click a soundsmith video because he's fucking garbage, so you're going to have to tell me if there's any relevant info I'm missing when I say:
>nerfing sniper
brainlet tier balancing.
snipers are already usually dead weight in pubs and borderline viable in 6s; so why make them worse?
other than highlander, which balances itself anyway and is completely irrelevant to the official competitive and casual formats?

against ANYONE with an IQ above room temp it IS a suicide dive, retard. Or did you forget the decloak noise being increased years ago, meaning you have to either get lucky a retard isn't using a somewhat decent headset, or you have to trek a somewhat dangerous path to go for your pick? Maybe you forgot that people turn around? Maybe you didn't think before opening your disgusting, stink-filled mouth that against even a somewhat not-retarded team on most maps spy can and will be called out just from the occasional flicker of damage due to spam, that EVEN if he gets his kill against a high priority target (IE, Med, Sniper, Engie), then he's either deleted instantly because power classes are right there in Med's case, you wasted your time compared to if you just went sniper to kill the other sniper, or, most times in an actually competent team, the pyro will run homowrecker, making your risky engie kill utterly pointless unless your team pushes immediately. He's a worthless class at higher levels, even if he's fun, and niggers like you that just brush all his problems away with 'lol don't be predictable!' don't understand anything.

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How about you lrn2cloakndagger and stop relying on that shit gun

No. Was extremely good and a horrible crutch. I'm glad it got nerfed.

meanwhile it was you faggots that got my shiny skillbased flamethrower nerfed. Eat a dick.

Disgusting. What is the point of the fucking weapon then.

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Embarrassingly hard damage falloff, alongside a cap to where you can't even headshot past a certain range. Revolver is the better sniping weapon now.
Not to mention the range feels really inconsistent, leading to your death more than likely if you needed, say, 80 damage and you hit the soldier for 70.

nothing, it's garbage.
everybody uses revolver or diamondback now.

He's a retard user. He's either a bait God or has clearly never played TF2 outside his community Pony/Furfag server.
It's useless arguing with that sperg.

Not that guy but I'd agree with him about the spy having a get out of jail free card even with the stock invis watch. The damage reduction he gets lets him survive a direct hit rocket just by pressing mouse 2, which is bullshit.

>WAAH YOU MUST FOLLOW MY PLAYSTYLE WAAH
>porbably doesnt even play spy
Could make spy pretty fun if I jack off to hentai on the other screen while I crawl towards the frontlines before getting killed by a stray rocket

Nothing. Casual fags like won and have reduced spies to suicide diving

>people still sperg out over something as simple minded as TF2
dios mio

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To counter razorback snipers but there's no point in using it compared to the revolver or diamondback

Stop moving so slow.

>able to react to a direct rocket with M2
>is left with let's say. 50hp.
>extremely susceptible to another stray rocket splash damage

I see nothing wrong with this and you're wrong.

>an AFK cloak and fagger shitter lecturing someone on balance

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Reminder

Attached: 9hj2e0kj5lb11.png (899x570, 161K)

Enforcer does a better job if you're really adamant on 2 shotting snipers.

Even Enforcer has the better 'get shit on razorfag sniper' niche in comparison due to just 2 bodyshots being easier to land.

COPE
O
P
E
seethingitgud

>4 seconds apart.
Based. Thank you for understanding the Spy meta.

I bet it's this faggot that caused Ambassador to be nerfect because he was tired of getting shot in his fat fucking head in videos.

>take off half your health to try a glitch trick which is literally impossible to perform reliably
no

No one was talking about him, you obsessed loser.

Probably. He's heavily biased against Spies to start with.

this
spy is painful to play on anything that isn't a ctf server at 3am. even the best spies in the world are free kills if you remember not to melee them like a retard. he is by far the worst class in the game right now.

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>decloaking
>having to get close to your pick
>people turning around
The Ambassador shoots heads at medium range, user. It doesn't backstab.

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>cope
>seething
Wew sure showed me with those buzzwords. If you're going to be dry humping a place for 60 years hoping for a kill, why not play sniper, shitter-kun?

>double jump doesn't gain enough height to escape floor shots
>pyro can't reflect at all if you aim at walls or floor ahead
>demo can't as readily blast jump away so if sold jumps into him he has no choice but to try for a direct pipe(not reliable)
>heavy can't catch up with him if sold decides to hug a corner spamming around it
>engi can only win if he's standing behind a sentry whipping it into shape, irrelevant since dh exists and is a go-to "strategy" vs sentries
>medic alone can't fight anything
>sniper can't fight at close range except predictable melee
>spy dies to anything that's aware of him
Dude soldier counters everything. Any strat, be it 5 demos 1 med, h+m, scout rush, engi stack, can be beaten by soldier(s) as good if not better than anything else. Soldier is the very base of the game, they balance things around him.

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Girl, I'd wreck you with any class of your choice.

Valve will be the one to kill it themselves, but the 'sequel' will be like L4D1 vs L4D2. Not really much at all lost in the transition.

user, I was talking about backstabs. Ambassador back in the day opened options to prevent you from always having to pull a 'fuck it, guess I'll try for a stab with Valve's shitty melee netcoding and then read a page or two in a novel while I respawn'. An engie at 50 health could be shot from a distance so you could shoot his buildings, rather than decloaking around his domain in hopes of not getting assraped by the combo just so you could poke him with the knife, as an example.It gave options to the spy, and options were a good bit of what spy needed. None of this Dead Ringer 60 stats on a weapon shit, no. Just a way to approach things with a different mentality as needed.

holy shit valvedoomed is the new nintendoomed

>Not only can you get 1 shot from your blindspot
>You can also get 1 shot from 20KMs away if handled by someone who doesn't have cerebral palsy!

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Naturally, brother. He's a garbage class, but he's my garbage class, by God.

>everybody uses revolver or diamondback now
>or diamondback
where does this meme come from again? don't remember seeing it once since Amby was nerfed
l'etranger is much more common than diamondback, due to its utility

>simple minded
go play against kaidus sometime
youtube.com/watch?v=j7jelqvvzxE

That part about game design is not a contradiction.
Vast majority of devs are only OK at the games they develop.

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>one shot
>102 damage
Why are you using Kunai, user?

>by far
tied with Pyro.
>doesn't have invis, but is still a close range class
>press S to make him irrelevant

>tied with Pyro.
No. Pyro is better. Denying ubers and reflecting spam is more useful than anything Spy can do.

Then you haven't played much, no offense. I see a diamondback faggot as much as the l'entranger, if not more. Watching someone farm your potato-tier soldier for 6 crits and then just deleting people is equal parts ball-clenchingly painful and amusing. Like, that gets through QA, but Ambassador doesn't?

You're on your way to... EGYPT.

Attached: Soldier Visits a Mosque.png (500x500, 72K)

Spy can get picks in places Sniper can't.
Outright deleting an uber as well as the enemy team's healing source in the process>slowing down an Uber. Don't forget, the airblasting pyro can easily be shot if it's a Heavy or Scout uber and no amount of airblast can reflect hitscan.

>be a spy
>have the ability to check the medic's uber percentage and relay it to the team
>have the ability to make the medic heal you and make him waste an uber in front of your teammates while he runs around confused
>have the ability to immediately delete him in a melee fight cause he got cocky with his ubersaw

Casualfags are fucking stupid, who knew?
He's OUR garbage class. Still fun to pub stomp with for free salt

Based

Attached: 1552793312455.jpg (1522x1522, 396K)

Keep being trash, Spy is the weakest class in the game, stupid Heavyfag.

>Spy can get picks
>picks
You're only getting 1 important pick at max if a team isnt braindead. And that's even IF the enemy team is stupid enough to let you get that close.

So two things that only work if the medic is stupid and ISN'T saying calmy to his team "Spy called me with the medic button. Now he's trying to matador me as I hit him with the crossbow. Could the scout please click him?"

>an engine at 50 health
I suggest checking out the damage values and examples for what the Ambassador is now. Close-medium range still constitutes about the bottom of the ramp on Borneo to the before the tunnel, or the doorways on Badwater to popular nest sites on final point. In these ranges, it has damage of about 85-102, which keeps it an option for distanced picks, and its max falloff for Headshots is 51, so even in your example, you can make that kill from extremely long ranges.
When I'm saying that Spy close range outings aren't always suicide dives, it's not some inane idea that backstabs can be remedied by "git gud." It means that the Ambassador allows you to make picks but you have to be within a reasonable range to do so.

>have info
It's not as useful as you think it is. It's nice to have, but in general you can predict uber percentage
>all that pub garbage what if scenarios
Never happens in lobbies. Ever.

I love Spy. Alot. But dont fool yourself into thinking he's good.

>he's OUR garbage class
Goddamn right

Attached: spyfags be all like.jpg (900x506, 71K)

I have been playing on a weekly basis since 2017, I've definitely played "much", and I see L'Etranger and Revolver more than I do Diamondback. Since at least 2013 when they buffed L'Etranger.
>Watching someone farm your potato-tier soldier for 6 crits
Again this is not a thing I see happen. But if it is, it's not exactly any different to Eyelander, Air Strike, Ubersaw, Big Earner or Conniver's Kunai anyway.
Diamondback doesn't delete people, it does 102 per crit.

Attached: hr.jpg (382x182, 19K)

>Spy can get picks in places Sniper can't.
In pubs this isn't that valuable. Sniper always has targets to shoot. In 6s it's usually not that much more effective than just having the roamer throw himself at him.

>Don't forget, the airblasting pyro can easily be shot if it's a Heavy or Scout uber and no amount of airblast can reflect hitscan.
Heavy can't do shit because you can just airblast him around cover all day. Scouts it depends. 6s scouts can easily kill a pyro, pub scouts not a chance assuming a medic even bothers to uber one in the first place.

>have the ability to check the medic's uber percentage and relay it to the team
worthless. tracking uber does not matter in pubs, in 6s good medics can track uber on their own.
>have the ability to make the medic heal you and make him waste an uber in front of your teammates while he runs around confused
only a medic who just installed the game will fall for this
>have the ability to immediately delete him in a melee fight cause he got cocky with his ubersaw
sniper can do this from a mile away

What's the name of that shotgun skin?

>>picks
I was speaking in the terms of over the course in rounds, I wasn't saying chainstabs or anything. A medic kill is still extremely important.
Both Pyro and Spy are pretty comparatively useless and the only real function either of them have which nobody does better is Ubercharge denial, is my main point.

user, there's a cap to how far it can headshot now. An example off the top of my head is, let's say, engie built on roof of badwater as red, still the 50 health scenario, and you're blu by their spawn doors. With current Ambassador, you cannot do headshot damage at that range. You'll hit for 19 every time. That doesn't feel like sniper range even still, it seems like a reasonable distance just past sentry range to me, but IIRC new amby falls into range of sentries, or is maybe a few precious units away, making engie harassment far more risky.

Out of curiosity, you UK or US? When I go to certain places it seems certain styles are more used than others.

Well yeah after a while it drops down to the teens if you're across the map, but when I say previous long ranges, I mean you can get ranges from the buildings on Borneo to the tunnel and nail 50+ damage. Badwater specifically is incredibly easy to nail 50 damage on as long as you're actually around the final point.

Sniper does it better
Pyro handles ubered better

The only legitimate thing Spy can do on certain maps is callout enemy Sniper safely and (maybe) kill said Sniper and harass him so he can't bother your team or Sniper

Dane poster here, working on some new oc, heres an example

Attached: Capture141.png (523x458, 145K)

the only time I ever want a spy on my team is to blow up the teleporters. that's the only thing I can think of that spy is useful for that other classes can't do.

Then if we're talking pubs there are more idiots fooled by disguises and trickstabs and other shit that doesn't fool anyone with 2 braincells to rub together. So either way Spy is still situationally tied with Pyro for worst class.
>Heavy can't do shit because you can just airblast him around cover all day
This is theorycrafting and rarely true in practice. Get close to the barrel of a 500+dps minigun as Pyro and try to puff the Heavy around and you'll just die. Your health just melts. At best you might manage it once.

>muh prediction takes muh skill to predict when to press muh buttons
spy mains belong and should stay on reddit

Attached: redditnigger.png (250x366, 91K)

>another shitty wojack that won't catch on
just save yourself the effort

Neither US nor EU bro

That is also another valid thing he can do. Okay user, you're getting to see the picture. Good.

>drop to less than 103 HP at any point
>get instantly killed with no counterplay by a sniper that can go invisible
Get fucked.

So what would it take to make Spy good?

Attached: 1534267651065.jpg (949x800, 387K)

Kill Covered
It looks even better on the Family Business

Attached: 500fx500f.png (500x500, 57K)

Shooting a rocket in itself is a prediction, user.
Dont post if you havent played the game, you just sound stupid, and you're giving it away you're fresh off reddit.

and sniper mains should remain in CS. Nobody likes you.

Non-aimbot Snipers can do shit all to a Medic who is standing behind his team and on the other side of a roller door or around a corner. Sniper doesn't work without sightlines, Spy does.
Sure, normally Sniper does have a sightline, which is what makes Spy bad, but it's still enough that it makes him tie with Pyro for worst.

>there are more idiots fooled by disguises and trickstabs and other shit that doesn't fool anyone with 2 braincells to rub together
depends on the server. I only play payload and 5cp and nobody falls for this shit and every engineer and medic constantly has a pyro main babysitting him. maybe if you play modes like ctf where everybody is braindead but I don't find any satisfaction in beating up retards that I could have easily destroyed as any other class.
>This is theorycrafting and rarely true in practice
it's not, heavy cannot shoot through walls or around cover. you stand on a corner as pyro there is nothing heavy can do to you. NOTHING.

That might be it, then. When I play with a foriegn buddy of mine and suffer the lands of 150+ ping in Krautlands or the like, their playstyles are different compared to what I'm used to in burgerlands. Texas servers seem to be fucking enthralled with diamondback and iron bomber, off the top of my head.

removing sniper
seriously, sniper is literally just spy but better in every possible way

>dropping below 150 HP in the first place
Sounds like you suck cock and your medic isn't even bothering to heal you, user.

Attached: smug reporter.gif (260x195, 1.13M)

seethe harder reddit nigger

Attached: 776px-Horsecock_crossed.jpg (776x600, 101K)

-Allow disguises to fake shoot, and fake reload more reliably
-Revert Amby Nerf, give all Revolvers a slightly less worse damage fall off
-Reduce decloak sound
-Super controversial but allow Spy to impact an Uber somehow. Backstabs reduce Uber duration or something.

prediction is inherent in every single action in a game dumbass
and desperately pressing m2 to escape isn't a prime example of that
play a real class redditor no one likes you

it sometimes happens even while the medic is healing you

You realize a rocket is a projectile and has travel time, right? Therefore there is a clear window to react to it if noticed.
Me pressing M2 is a reaction to it.
Hitscan weapons offer 0 reaction time.
Theres a reason why the rocket has splash damage, it compensates for a players reaction to the rocket.

Actually argue my points or get better bait, calling someone a redditor over and over only works on Smashfags

Ambassador nerf revert, fixing his bugs (IE, demo disguises with no legs, engie disguise with a revolver, ect), maybe some support tool for the team. (I remember there was a bug that you could build a dispenser as spy by sacrificing your sapper, maybe something like that could be fair), and that's about all that comes to mind. He's fundamentally niche and I don't think any change is going to really alter him to being super viable in 6's or what have you.

Here are my spy fixes
>Slightly decrease spread on all his guns
>Fake a reload or run at full speed at any time
>Increase knife damage to 65
>Disguising is instantaneous
>Cloak blocks afterburn while active
>No shimmer from colliding with players
>No shimmer from Remove crit falloff on ambassador. Minicrits after 1024hu
>Revert enforcer to 2012, keep the piercing effect
>Diamondback does extra damage to buildings but no crits on backstab
>Spy can see health/ammo/uber/metal at all times on all players in his FoV
>Spy can throw his sapper to disable buildings in a radius. 30s cooldown
>Access to extra voice commands like deaths or class specific lines
>Add HUD indicators for his abilities (when you have DR out or amby accuracy for example)
>Remove damage resistance and debuff resistances on cloak
>Remove spawn x-rays
>Spy kills do not show in the killfeed at all
>Fix the hitboxes. Cylinders instead of cubes.
>Disguise kit and cloak bugfixes
>Overheal bug fix
>Nerf unlocks that counter him
>Nerf sniper
>Remove random melee crits

Attached: spy engineer.png (191x238, 100K)

Spy's fundamental problem is that once he gets the first stab he announces his presence to the whole enemy team and then they just have to look at their backs periodically if they don't want to die, and countering him is easy as that.

So then, because he knows if he goes in for a kill they'll be waiting for him, all Spy can do is wait until they stop paying attention, during which time he is a huge fucking waste of space.

I would solve this by making the Sapper have a sabotage function of some kind that works on all classes, not just Sentries, to give Spy something useful to do while he's waiting for a stab opportunity.
>better but in every possible way
Spy has an advantage over snipers to counter them, can kill teles, can backcap, and can kill people around corners, behind cover or behind roller doors without needing a long sightline like Sniper does, plus he can pump out kills slightly quicker in an ideal situation. So he has that going for him.

I've seen this pasta before and it never tasted good

>return to the game after 1 month of break
>get a dustbowl match
>doing alright as sniper, getting headshots here and there but bodyshots for the most part
>we roll through the first two maps as BLU
>the standard affair happens where last in stage 3 shortcircuits everyone's brains
>go soldier
>kill a demo in that room with the staircase where engies always put their sentries
>kill an engie and his sentry from afar
>bomb onto last and kill 3 more people
>die in a blaze of glory as my team swarms in to cap

Man, you ever get those moments where you say "yeah, shit like this is why I'm still playing this game?"

The Medic is overpowered.

There is literally no reason to use the ambassador now. The enforcer can 2 shot 125hp classes at point blank and the letranger gives infinite cloak. Just to add inzult to injury there are ranges where an amby headshot does less damage than a bodyshot.

I don't expect valve to fix anything since the game hasn't been updated in 2 years.

the worst class needs lots of buffs to be good

Some of these are pretty solid, but some seem cluttered and, meme or not, confusing for new players. The extra UI elements would drive me batty I think.
And don't nerf melee crits, how else am I going to slap people as pyro?
I disagree with the player shimmer being null, but can appreciate the no-shimmer from really minute attacks.

>There is literally no reason to use the ambassador now.
Instakill anyone under 103 HP at close range.

yes but not 90% of those shit ones

My fucking sides

>The extra UI elements would drive me batty I think.
Play with viewmodels off and you will be glad to have them. Spy is the only class you have to play with viewmodels on.
>And don't nerf melee crits, how else am I going to slap people as pyro?
Hot hand is garbage without or without crits.

Or you can 2 shot with the revolver without having to worry about close-range headshots, at almost the exact same speed

iron bomber
tide turner
cladeimohr

longer charges that fully refill on mele kill.

You might miss the second shot or someone might kill you or dip a corner in the time it takes.

>reading comprehension
Why the fuck are you still pushing this rockets shit on me?
Everyone and their dog knows projectiles take prediction
A spy repeatedly clicking m2 out of instinct takes less thought than leading projectiles
If you actually think that knowing when to go invis is one of spy's more technical skills, you're just plain retarded
Learn the fundamentals of playing before you devote your hours on muh invis prediction redditor
Maybe then you'll enjoy the game more

Yeah, but with crits the occasional get shit on moment is worth being retarded.
That and the 3rd degree killing 2 pockets at once when you hit a heavy from above is worth too.

>Only 125 health
>100 if you use the joker knife
>70 if you use the weeb knife
Health buff from it ain't shit unless you go dead ringer and have enough luck to not alert the enemy while moving narrow places most of the time
>No fucking critical hit in melee if you don't count backstabs
>Class so weak he can only hope to do better with a revolver
>Now that jungle inferno passed Spy in only a meme class used by weebs and even more shittier than Heavy and can only rely on trickstabs that doesn't even work since anyone knows them by spy mains channels
>Somehow Spy doesn't require skill
I'll say it: no "git gud" responses allowed unless you want your post to be discarded

You might miss the headshot too, user. In fact I'd argue it's far easier to hit two bodyshots even with those stipulations than a headshot, what you're saying is a lot more theorycrafting, especally since if they're in a position where they're dipping into a corner and you're shooting with the ambassador, it'll probably have enough falloff that you'll do 90 damage instead.

You can already do that with stock in 2 shots without needing to click a head. Ambassador also fires 20% slower than stock does.

And if the enemy happens to have under 60HP, or over 103HP, then stock becomes objectively the better choice again. Without needing to click heads and being able to just click bodies (because tf2 is a game played by humans).

>You might miss the second shot
If you're worried about missing a second bodyshot you should be a LOT more worried about missing a headshot, lmao.

Attached: stock engineer.png (300x458, 187K)

unf

>projectiles take prediction
Guess what? You clicked m1!
I counter with m2.
Fuck I could even counter with spacebar if wanted to depending on the angle, considering a rocket only deals 112 or some shit in extremely optimal conditions.
And even with the invis watch, you still have 3 more chances to click m1 and hit relatively close me to kill with Splash.

Idk why you're so butthurt over not being to one shot with a rocket. Which you can't do anyways on any base class.

Revoler is notorious for its shit recoil.

>especally since if they're in a position where they're dipping into a corner and you're shooting with the ambassador, it'll probably have enough falloff that you'll do 90 damage instead.
No? You can dip a corner at literally any range.

All of Spy's guns have spread, user.
Play the game.
Alot of you uneducated fuckers need to play the game it looks like.

just buff those weapons if you want them to be good. a weapon being viable shouldn't come down to a dice roll.

>dragons fury nerfed

What? Nothing has changed about it since release

Only from the second shot on, retard.

This was all discussed at "close range". Spread isn't going to matter to your chances of landing a bodyshot at that range. Having to hit 1/10th of the other player's hitbox on the other hand will.

Spread matters at all ranges. Instant death is always better over giving the enemy a window of opportunity to shoot back at you and kill you or otherwise escape.

I'm not that guy you argued with over rockets asshat
I'm just calling you out for being deluded enough to think that "knowing" when to go invis takes more skill than it does
Also bringing other inputs other than m2 doesn't support your argument at all

What?
The first revolver shot is 100% accurate. Then you have have to wait, 1.5 seconds I THINK, to restore that 100% accuracy, any shot taken before that time frame is slightly inaccurate and resets the clock.
I dont understand what you're arguing.

wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Dragon's_Fury
>The size/radius of the fireball has been reduced by 25%.
>Bonus damage against a burning target now requires the fireball's center to make contact with the target's hitbox.

That's not true, they nerfed the hitbox of the projectile user.
Even if you did buff hot hand to the level of whatever other pyro melee it still wouldn't be a "good" way of killing people.
Random melee crits are what make fuckaround builds like Pan Demo work, and a straight buff would never be a substitute to make such builds compete with guns unless you literally gave everyone instakill melee, which would then invalidate Spy as a class even further.
Random crits are a way of making fun melee builds simultaneously viable and not viable by turning it into a gamble.
If you want nocrits, go play comp.

The point is that the headshot with an ambassador will kill in one shot if you have 102 HP, which is a fairly common position to be in. With a revolver you have to hit twice, wherein spread comes into play.

>it takes him minutes to reach the back line
Jesus get better pathing. It's not that hard to dodge spam.

>just don’t get hit

>Spread matters at all ranges
imgur.com/gallery/WqxKL imagine this as 50% more inaccurate relative to perfect accuracy. No, it does not matter at close range which you are discussing.
Not compared to having to hit a hitbox literally less than 1/10 the size of the main player hitbox.
>Instant death is always better over giving the enemy a window of opportunity to shoot back at you and kill you or otherwise escape
When you cherrypick only the positive of "instant death", yes.
When you leave out that you actually have to hit a tiny hitbox on the player's head, and that Ambassador no longer provides instant death at 103+ HP and Revolver also provides instant death at 60- HP, then no.

It's reaction time. Reaction time takes skill. I'm not sure what your skill gauge is, I dont care.
At this point, after getting btfo for like the 4th time in a row, you dont even know what you're arguing for.
First it was "unfair" Spy gets to press M2 to "get of jail for free" then it was arguing about if prediction was skill. Then it was arguing if M2 was skill. And now we're at HOW much skill it is.
Do you ever get tired of moving goalposts user?
I'm done with you. Get your (you)s from someone else

>imagine this as 50% more inaccurate relative to perfect accuracy.
You're the one who has to imagine it, apparently.

>it may
Your shitpost has to make sense, user.

>Even if you did buff hot hand to the level of whatever other pyro melee it still wouldn't be a "good" way of killing people.
then they need more buffs or some kind of utility. if they're not good then you buff them until they're good.
>and a straight buff would never be a substitute to make such builds compete with guns
and it shouldn't be because melee hitreg in tf2 is so fucking wonky that a melee only subclass shouldn't exist in the first place and the only way it would ever be good is to buff it to absurd levels where it makes the game unfun for everybody else. that's part of the reason why spy is terrible because he has to rely on his knife for everything. accept that it's a dumb meme loadout that will never be as good as stock and move on.
>If you want nocrits, go play comp.
if you want crits then don't pretend like you give a shit about class balance. random crits and balance are mutually exclusive

At the current range where you can hit 102, the spread is negligible unless Gaben really fucking hates you that day.
I understand your point though.

On his topic, I’d be interested in the sniper rifle giving a damage bonus for head shots when not zoomed. Obviously less damage than an uncharged zoomed headshot. Just a tiny damage buff

Happy, dumbass? Tired of being made to look stupid yet?
Tell me how much harder it looks to hit the entire body because of spread, relative to the difficulty of hitting the head.
Now stop being foolish.

Attached: YXB0fx6.jpg (1600x900, 129K)

Are you genuinely this retarded?

>I decide that I win, so I win
>stop moving goalposts
Full blown retard
The only one here moving topics is you toddler
If you had reading comprehension you would notice from previous posts that I was only talking about m2
I never said anything about m2 being unfair, I already said I'm not that guy. You would know that If you can read
Then you had to bring rockets like the retard you are who can't into context clues.
How many times before it goes through your fucking head that reflexively going invis when it is your best interest to stay cloaked most of the time, takes little to no mental input?
With that logic pulling out the escape plan takes skill.
Stop it with the facade that you'll stop replying because you think you've one, when the reality is that you don't have anything left to say and you've been "BTFO" (ebin redditor disguise term) by your own lack of reading comprehension.

The thing you want is called The Classic

*yawn*
Stop spazzing out. You're making yourself look dumb, user.

This is how you know you've lost spy main
Play a real class.
Have some fun.

>then they need more buffs or some kind of utility. if they're not good then you buff them until they're good.

In which case they become consistently better at dealing with Spies for fuck's sake. it's amazing the extent to which my point flew right over your head.

>and it shouldn't be because melee hitreg in tf2 is so fucking wonky that a melee only subclass shouldn't exist in the first place
Agreed entirely for the purposes of anything serious. Which is why random melee crits accomplish making fun melee builds workable in pubs, without making them viable in competitive and in general seriously played TF2.
Meanwhile a straight buff to melee to get them up to the level of guns WOULD do that.
>accept that it's a dumb meme loadout that will never be as good as stock and move on
"STOP HAVING FUN IN A VIDEO GAME FOREVER SO THAT MY CLASS CAN GET A VERY SLIGHT INDIRECT BUFF"

>random crits and balance are mutually exclusive
the mechanic of random crits have nothing to do with balance. it's like saying "jumping and balance are mutually exclusive" or "having health and balance are mutually exclusive". the quantity of crits you can get is balance related, but having crits in your game as a mechanic is not balance related.
maybe having random crits less often makes spy slightly worse, whatever. that's beside the point when Spy is already terrible anyway for reasons entirely unrelated to crits. you could remove crits entirely, he'd still be bad. You could do every single thing on your list, he'd still be bad.
Your ideas are mostly horrible gimmicks and will not solve the fundamental problem that Spy is countered by just turning around.

>Serious posting in a tf2 thread
Yikes

Attached: vO7lRZ7.png (621x702, 89K)

Not an argument. Thanks for conceding.

user, are you okay? Tell us where the Frenchman touched you.

>it's a wojakposter thinks they're above anyone episode

>walks up as close as he can possibly get before shooting
>"see guys this weapon has no spread!"

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>its a filthy redditor seethes at wojak episode

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>Still holding on because his fragile pride can't handle it
Don't they teach context clues in junior high

>>>>as close as he can possibly get
Except it's not, you fucking moron. That image is the far left hand one. Firing was done from the end of the blue strip.

>NAH GUYS AMBASSADOR IS GOOD FOR ONESHOTS AT CLOSE RANGE OKAY
>post close range image
>HURRDURR WHY U AT CLOS RANGE???
Lmao you made a massive retard of yourself!
Feel free to post your apology!

Attached: z.png (1190x906, 270K)

I told you before and I'll tell you again, you are an idiot and have absolutely no idea about game balance. I'm glad no one on earth is dumb enough to apply all that shit in a game.

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>he's still so obsessed he cant let go mediocre bantz
LOL, dude, the arguement is over. I won, it happens, we learn. Just play all the classes like I do and maybe you wont make retarded posts anymore.
I wish you all the best.

And here's the image because you obviously didn't even fucking look at the Imgur link before posting:

Attached: i4QDb9t.jpg (1600x900, 131K)

Idea: debuffs should actually be debuffs, medigun should not remove effects like jarate, fire etc.

>people actually wanted spy to be an invisible and therefore unavoidable sniper
I'm glad Valve doesn't listen to you retards.

If I admit that you've won you'll stop crying right?
Fine. I'll be the adult here.
You won. I lost.
Cloaking to hide takes skill.

I think he's shitposting, user.

And guess at what ranges the nerfed Ambassador still deals full damage?

>nerfing sniper
>Not demo or soldier
uh-huh. Sure. Piss off.

Sniper does 150+ damage, not 102. He also actually has a scope and sight.
If you were genuinely having trouble with Ambassador Spies before the patch, a sidegrade to stock on the weakest class in the game, I really pity whatever computer you own, it deserves a more skilled owner.

Dude just let it go. It's a fucking internet forum. No one knows who you are, no one genuinely cares you lost an argument. Just play the game.

You know what? Let's talk about OP's Topic. Should we revert the Ambassador nerf?

>Should we revert the Ambassador nerf?
You should just play sniper instead.

>REEE ITS AS CLOSE AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN BE
>Prove that it actually is in fact not
>REEEEE LET ME SWITCH THE GOALPOSTS TO DEFLECT HOW THOROUGLY BTFO I WAS

Admit it, it's a fact. That was not actually "as close as he can possibly get", and you didn't check. You fucked up, son.

>i-it wasn't as close as he could get, see, he was actually 3 feet away!

>getting this mad about a niche playstyle

Well I think the Ambassador used to be a nice tool for contesting mid with your flank. And Sniper plays differently from the ambassador. One insta kills, the other is great for pressuring.

I've seen this tard in tf2 threads before, he's gonna come out with a wall of text arguing for his changes.

>In which case they become consistently better at dealing with Spies for fuck's sake
Wrong. As long as they don't one shot spy then they're fine. That's up to 125 damage. You're telling me a melee doing that much damage isn't worth using?
>Which is why random melee crits accomplish making fun melee builds workable in pubs
They're not any better in pubs RIGHT NOW. Demoknight hasn't been good in years. It's still a fucking meme no matter what you're using. I don't even care about demoknight, random melee crits are an issue on support classes because they don't have powerful primaries. Medics and engineers critting every other goddamn swing is the problem.
>"STOP HAVING FUN IN A VIDEO GAME FOREVER SO THAT MY CLASS CAN GET A VERY SLIGHT INDIRECT BUFF"
>ONLY MY FUN MATTERS AND NOBODY ELSES. BUFF MY CLASS NERF EVERYBODY ELSE.

>the mechanic of random crits have nothing to do with balance
a mechanic that lets you have a random chance of instantly winning any fight will never be balanced.

>you could remove crits entirely, he'd still be bad
which is why it's not the only thing on the list.

>Your ideas are mostly horrible gimmicks and will not solve the fundamental problem that Spy is countered by just turning around.
Your only complaint about my changes is that "itll hurt my dumb meme loadout so I hate it!". you guys don't fucking play all the classes the only thing you care about is how it will affect your main. stop being a biased selfish cunt and look at game balance overall. I want every class to be good, not just spy. If melee registration was consistent I'd even be okay with demoknight being on the same level as stock but it isn't.

Yes its a shame I lost the "going invisible takes skill argument" I was already bound to lose. How in the hell are you going to refute that pressing m2 takes skill? You can't! Anyways no need to reply now reddit-kun. I already took the role of the big guy and have given you your well deserved win. Cheers.

>drop below 103 HP at any point
>get instantly killed by a class that can see your HP and position himself however the fuck he wants due to invisibility and do this from any range as long as he possesses even a modicum of skill, making the usual precautions against snipers meaningless
>also does not have to sacrifice mobility or vision to do this

I think it was so retarded that it became pasta, user.
Unfortunately there are Spy "mains" out there that want this, probably from ideas from Mr. Paladdin or someone.

>no arguments

Are Spy mains that retarded now?

based

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You know what user. I like you. You've successfully baited me for the past fucking hour and I ate like a retard.
Well played.

Alot of us are unironic 12 year old Mexicans that think one tricking Spy is a good idea.
It's a shame to be associated with them but it is a cross we must bear.

No no stop! Don't go off your pedestal! I swear I'm not baiting! Its a well deserved win reddit-kun! Pressing m2 does take skill, and anyone who thinks otherwise automatically loses to you.

my thought exactly

If Spy needs to rely on being a discount Sniper with a get out of jail free card to be effective the class itself is fundamentally fucekd. Be angry about that rather than your crutch getting nerfed.

Reminder that in the future TF2 matches will be between 32 aimbot snipers only

>dane nigger calling someone a reddit nigger
Like pottery

Literally yes. You were wrong, champ.
We're talking about "close range".

More importantly, you were wrong, sweetie. Admit it. I know it's really hard for you, but if you can fight your ego, you can admit you were wrong.

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>Spy main is deluded enough to think that cloaking takes skill.
Thanks for the laugh boys.

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>discount sniper
Cringe
>class is fundamentally fucked
Yep. That is true, and most of are sort of angry. He was set up to fail, the greatest counter to Spy is communication.

Ambassador was useful to use in comp because it allowed you to play outside of "Frenchfag that goes for back stab 24/7" and made you more of a roaming threat that your flank could play with.

Not that I'm picking sides, but I think a video would be the only way to end this arguement.

youtube.com/watch?v=W-PMEgdnfCI

Aside from saying that the pro-crits crowd were just being contrarian, I'd say the things he said made sense and he offered a solution, except for a couple of "I don't know"s.

I can't fault a guy for trying to create an open discussion, and I think most of what he said made sense and sounded good, though I feel you could maybe just reduce the chance of randm crits and leave it at that. Maybe some other kind of nerf instead, one guy suggested mini crits, but there's already servers with random crits deactivated, and you couldn't get rid of them without it affecting the whole "no random crits" area of weapon balance.

With that said, what changes would you like to see? I'd have to agree that making the content that's already there actually viable would be a lot better than adding new stuff that's as broken and worthless as most of the weapons already in-game. The gas passer gets about as much use as the red-tape recorder after all.

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fucking based. I have literally never seen anybody complain about amby before valve released the blog where they said they plan to nerf it, then suddenly faggots all around say they "always knew it was overpowered"
bunch of faggots is what they are

nerfing weapons is the gayest shit.

>I have literally never seen anybody complain about amby before valve released the blog where they said they plan to nerf it
How is you being ignorant an argument?

>spending the past 30 minutes yelling at others about how they lost and how "BTFO" they are on a chinese imageboard without providing any substantial claims
Yikes. Talk about being childish and validating your intelligence.

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Buff the dragon's fury.
It's my favorite flamethrower and it makes me sad that it's a straight downgrade to stock if my accuracy is anything less than perfect that day.

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>You're telling me a melee doing that much damage isn't worth using?
Compared to guns? No, not at all. The potential chance of getting multiple 195s with a massively heightened crit chance is what makes crit based melee builds worth using over guns. If you have to hit more than once it totally defeats the purpose instead of just reloading your gun and shooting someone from far away.
>They're not any better in pubs RIGHT NOW. Demoknight hasn't been good in years
It's all workable. With your garbage idea it would be straight up worse.
>ONLY MY FUN MATTERS AND NOBODY ELSES. BUFF MY CLASS NERF EVERYBODY ELSE.
Yes that is literally, literally what you're saying.
>a mechanic that lets you have a random chance of instantly winning any fight will never be balanced
It's not a balance matter you retard. Balance refers to making CHOICES equal for the player.
>which is why it's not the only thing on the list
The point is that it doesn't even need to be. If your list addressed the fundamental issue of Spy, which it doesn't, none of that would be necessary.
>you guys don't fucking play all the classes the only thing you care about is how it will affect your main. stop being a biased selfish cunt and look at game balance overall
I do that all the time, you retard.
I'm not biased to any single class, I made sure to play 100 hours of every class to get an idea before even commenting on balance. The class I play the most is Medic, and I want it nerfed copiously. So you can shut your fucking assumption making face. I want TF2 to be perfectly balanced and want Spy fixed just as much as everyone. But you are going the wrong way about it in a way that will only make the game less fun for others.

You're projecting to the max right now. You are telling me I'm "selfish" while proposing every crit based melee build gets trashcanned so Spy can have a shitty indirect buff that won't even solve his real problems. Listen to yourself.

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>The damage reduction he gets lets him survive a direct hit rocket just by pressing mouse 2, which is bullshit.
and the direct hit allows the soldier to kill the spy just by pressing mouse 1, which is bullshit

do you not realize how fucking retarded you sound?

I've never seen anyone either. And yes, I know ancedotal evidence isnt actual evidence, but I dare you to seriously find anything about the ambassador being considered OP before the nerf was announced.

Valve used to release items specifically to counter some strats that were considered 2good.
I wish they'd go back to that, let us fight broken with broken

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user, he was baiting me the entire time. Or he's still recovering from the meltdown he had after I refuted all his points.
Let sleeping dogs lie.

That's too much work for nuValve.

I don't have one, but the images were perfectly sufficient. That last image there showed that around 5 feet away in close range, revolver is still quite accurate. Definitely much easier than trying to land a headshot.
>Got so thoroughly BTFO that he has no retort, so has to pretend he never cared at all 5 posts later by pretending to be someone else
Here's your final (you), I'll leave you to seethe over making a fool of yourself. Don't bother with the edited MS Paint screencap, we all know how to do that.

Spy really does need some new weapons, maybe a new sapper that you can throw or a sapper that can drain ubercharge.

If you have 100 weapons, and you add 1 to the game which turns out to be way too good, are you, as a game developer, going to:
>A: nerf the 1 weapon because it's significantly quicker, less likely to cause a raft of new bugs, and less likely for you to make new balance mistakes if you are only changing 1 thing, allowing you to use the time saved to go develop the game some more
>B: buff 99 weapons because some autists on the internet have an irrational dislike of nerfing

Fuck that's a good arguement.

>refuted
How delusional. You didn't prove anything
Aww did I hit a sore spot? So you do use these threads for self validation. Also the only seething dipshit here is you pumping that final (you) bullshit you can't even uphold just to try and silence the opposition since you cant handle being proven wrong.

t-thanks i just thought it was common sense though obviously most people don't think about it from that perspective

Were you baiting both of us on different topics at the same time?
I'm impressed, user.

With everything I just said though, I will say Amby nerf was unnecessary. If they didn't like the way it was playing they should have reworked it, not nerfed it, because it wasn't OP.

>If you have to hit more than once it totally defeats the purpose instead of just reloading your gun and shooting someone from far away
There is not a single weapon in this game that reloads faster than it takes to switch to a melee and swing it.
>It's all workable. With your garbage idea it would be straight up worse.
Demoknight at its peak could be played without relying on random crits at all. Tide turner with the claymore the strongest loadout and neither of those weapons gets random crits. So this argument that "you need random crits" for demoknight to be viable is horse shit.
>Yes that is literally, literally what you're saying.
Demoknight is an exception because it's buggy. I already explained this but apparently you can't fucking read.
>It's not a balance matter you retard. Balance refers to making CHOICES equal for the player.
And players can't make smart choices in a fight when instakill dice rolls exist.
>The point is that it doesn't even need to be. If your list addressed the fundamental issue of Spy, which it doesn't, none of that would be necessary.
The fundamental issue of spy is being high risk low reward compared to sniper and relying on a melee weapon for kills. Buffing his guns, survivability, and support abilities addresses that.
>But you are going the wrong way about it in a way that will only make the game less fun for others.
The only class you can point to is demoknight. Why are you shitters so hung up on random fucking crits? Stop being trash and get fucking good so you don't need a dice roll to win your fights because your dumbass was overextended and out of ammo.

>b-b-bait!
Im afraid I have to stoop to your level of insecurity
YOU LOSE YOU LOSE
TAKE THIS L

There's a good chance people like him are not baiting but just genuinely retarded.

Anyone who isnt a contrarian asshole knows the nerf wasnt deserved.

>*deals 12 damage*
heh

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Everybody at Valve is just fucking retarded and don't even play the game. I remember they did some kind of pros vs valve game prior to meet your match and the valve employees insisted on going phlog and w+m1ing with it just to get insta-deleted.
I guarantee they gave absolutely zero thought to the diamondback

>exclamation marks
>perfect caps
>reddit boogeyman insults
Nah, I reckon it's bait user.

MEGA F
I'm here bitching about the Amby meanwhile the REAL injustice is towards the Righteous Bison.
F.

Man I sure am glad they fixed that weird bug where it can hit someone multiple times, it was almost fun for a while there

Ambassador needed the nerf, but so does Diamondback, and hopefully it's next.

Expanding on that, why were certain things straight up removed from the game? There are a lot of things that could make a comeback.
Like spy's quiet decloak from saharan spy, there's a lot of potential for strengthening the spy up there. Slap that on YER and you're good, including the increased blink with dr nerfed.
Or some way to disable headshots on sniper, hell make something that reduces snipers hp to 100 but he can never die to heads. That way you can fuck with hackers on fundamental level.
Or stun was completely removed except for huntsman taunt, it was broken when it was esentially axtinguisher combo over distance yeah, but that doesn't have to exist anymore. We had years without anyone complaining about sandman before that.
Except they went with C and nerfed 99 weapons over a long time, even when shit was clearly broken like release cow mangler. Example: out of Scout's 20-something weapons all but 5 were nerfed at some point.
I think it was 2014 when they just rebalanced most weapons out of the blue. Why not let that happen again?

>Ambassador needed the nerf
Retard
>but so does the diamondback
Okay, I take that back. At least you have logic in your thinking.

>>Remove spawn x-rays
how many years has this been out and not fixed
fuck valve

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>There is not a single weapon in this game that reloads faster than it takes to switch to a melee and swing it
It's a matter of range as well dumbass, you have to get to them.
>Tide turner with the claymore the strongest loadout and neither of those weapons gets random crits
They get guaranteed crits or minicrits, why are you being persistently stupid? You're the one who brought up Demoknight in the first place anyway, I was talking about all classes just using melee, sometimes with secondaries to help and sometimes without.
>Demoknight is an exception because it's buggy. I already explained this but apparently you can't fucking read
You can't even reply to the right section of post and you accuse me of not being able to read? Go back and look at what you're quoting again.
>And players can't make smart choices in a fight when instakill dice rolls exist

Stupidest post I have read all day, thank you for pouring this sewage onto my eyes.
Yes, user, nobody can ever make smart choices in pubs ever because random crits are present.

>The fundamental issue of spy is being high risk low reward compared to sniper and relying on a melee weapon for kills
The first one is a symptom of the issue, not the fundamental issue. The second one isn't inherently bad.
Spy's fundamental issue is you counter him by just turning around, so once people know he's there he is a straight downgrade and thus he has to wait until they stop paying attention to get a stab, during which time he is worthless. And nothing you posted is going to fix that issue. Even giving him 65 melee damage wouldn't change him being a 125HP class taking on 125-300HP classes in a melee fight who you propose giving even more melee damage to.
>The only class you can point to is demoknight
Demoknight was YOUR words, retard
>get fucking good so you don't need a dice roll to win your fights because your dumbass was overextended and out of ammo.
People INTENTIONALLY use melee in Casual for FUN. F U N.

loch n load, tide turner, ullapool

>flashbacks to Darwin Shield and the kit
Those Sniper duels were the most same inducing things I've ever seen
I mean a Vaccinator medic is all you need to semi replicate it, but it isn't the same

You want to talk about changing things back? How about they change this back!

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>I think it was 2014 when they just rebalanced most weapons out of the blue
You're probably thinking of 2015 Gun Mettle, and the reason that probably won't happen again is because Valve has at the absolute most 15 people working on TF2, a fraction of whom will be doing gameplay stuff.

Every balance change will potentially cause bugs, new balance fuckups, and will use up very limited dev time, so unnecessary changes need to be avoided.
And that's why the "why don't they just buff everything and never nerf anything"? mentality is retarded (there's also reasons of counterplay and desired TTK into the bargain-- for example if you release something that kills players really fast then try to buff to its level, the time to kill for your whole game goes up higher than it was designed around), even for games with bigger teams working on them than TF2

what did they do to it?

revolver replacements were always shit because they didn't put as much detail into the model and animations as the original

>Aestheticz
An interesting and actually valid point user. Nothing like slapping your revolver to reload it.

>It's a matter of range as well dumbass, you have to get to them.
If you are far enough away where you won't instantly die if you don't get a random melee crit then switching to your melee in the first place doesn't make sense. you are making a stupid decision and complaining you aren't being rewarded for it.
>They get guaranteed crits or minicrits, why are you being persistently stupid?
which is completely different. you know that player is going to get a guaranteed crit when they charge so you play around that and counter it.
>I was talking about all classes just using melee, sometimes with secondaries to help and sometimes without.
if you choose to not use your primary that's on you. demoknight is a sub class which is the only reason why I'm even arguing this.
>You can't even reply to the right section of post and you accuse me of not being able to read?
I did you're pointing fingers at me like I want to kill demoknight because I don't want random melee crits.
>Stupidest post I have read all day, thank you for pouring this sewage onto my eyes.
are you really going to have to make me link a dane video to show you why you are an idiot?
youtube.com/watch?v=WHvwijT2ss8&t=12m27s
>inb4 hurr dane shitter ad hominems no i wont address your argument
>Spy's fundamental issue is you counter him by just turning around
his entire role is being a stealthy killer, what do you suggest if not that. make him scout 2.0?
>People INTENTIONALLY use melee in Casual for FUN. F U N.
it's not FUN for ME when I get random crit by jose.gonzalez2005 who was behind our lines and down to 30hp. I didn't make a mistake but I'm punished anyway. either you think skilled players who make smart choices don't deserve to win fights or that only your fun matters.
>Demoknight was YOUR words, retard
>Random melee crits are what make fuckaround builds like Pan Demo work

shut the fuck up compfag

He's actually speaking like a casualfag
All compfags know the DB is banned in HL

>being so bad you need two instakill weapons

Yikes

It's not just about damage, user.
And adding/removing attributes isn't hard, especially since most templates already exist, I'm not asking for them to add a new sapper that would sap medics or something because that indeed requires a lot of work.
It's mostly about testing the stuff, they could enable the beta again to at least have a lot of people help test some things out, data collects itself. Example being how to balance sniper with a no headshots attribute so that it works with killing people and that the sniper can be killed as well. They gave some argumentation explaining certain stuff in JI, you know what I'm talking about.
Here's an idea, sniper's sydney sleeper now lets sniper survive headshots, doesn't minicrit on headshots and uses darwin shield model (very noticeable, maybe make it slightly bigger) to let people notice he can't headshot. Add something new from the workshop with current shield's attributes.

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>If you are far enough away where you won't instantly die if you don't get a random melee crit then switching to your melee in the first place doesn't make sense
Because you want to play with your melee weapon for FUN. How hard is this for your puny brain to comprehend? Melee crits make this gamble worthwhile
>which is completely different. you know that player is going to get a guaranteed crit when they charge so you play around that and counter it
We were talking about viability, not counterplay, and now you completely move the goalposts again
>if you choose to not use your primary that's on you
Right now melee builds can have success, you are literally saying it should not just so that you can get a buff that won't even fix your class
>his entire role is being a stealthy killer, what do you suggest if not that. make him scout 2.0
I posted an idea earlier in the thread but the point here is your ideas will not fix him either way, so why take fun from others??
>are you really going to have to make me link a dane video to show you why you are an idiot
The video makes YOU look like an idiot, because TLDR: TF2 is not a fucking turn based RPG you stupid Dane fanfag, you can dodge and shoot simeltaneously, and plenty of intelligent decisions are still possible all the time
>I didn't make a mistake
Yeah melee weapons are just homing teleportation murder devices which never miss their intended target there is LITERALLY no way to avoid dying to them
>Pan Demo
And Pan Demo=/=Demoknight, you FUCKING retard

I'm done replying to you, I have sleep to enjoy and you keep shifting the fucking argument to the point it's obviously a waste of my time trying to convince you of anything. Just know your ideas are shit (apart from xray/bugfix ones) and will never, EVER be implemented by Valve

Spy was a mistake since the very beginning. Nerfing the ambassador just punished him even more. Now he has no damage, and no good gimmick.

Take your le compfag boogeyman somewhere else faggot
HL is irrelevant to game balance so I'm not sure why you would bring it up

What's the unlock that lets spy instantly un cloak so he can kill you in one shot with perfect aim like some undersea kraken consuming a ship again?

It hurts to be a dashing rogue
If Spy could somehow disrupt an enemy's uber, he'd be better

Tf2 is proof that if you balance your game around "pros", balance turns to shit and you end upw ith 4 meta classes and barely function weapons across the game
Prove me wrong

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Change it back.

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>And adding/removing attributes isn't hard, especially since most templates already exist, I'm not asking for them to add a new sapper that would sap medics or something because that indeed requires a lot of work.
You ignored what I said about bugs and causing potential new balance issues by rebalancing existing stuff though.

I'm not saying "they will never do a big balance pass again ever", but I am saying that it is unfeasible for Valve to buff everything in the game up to the level of the old broken weapons.
All 9 classes get used here and there, and stock being the best option is a good thing in an F2P game if you don't want to be P2W

That's because "pros" are playing a completely different game.

Change it back to its release form, not its pre-nerf form.

Spy needs a whole rework not one weapon changed from good, to shitty, to good again.

Made it shit that can be stopped by slightly coughing around the demo. Shame too, as all the cool jumps you could do on maps made it almost a side grade to the stick

Fix the Shortstop first.
And un-nerf Demo's swords.
And unfuck the charge mechanics in general.

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god the bison used to be such a good weapon
why does valve hate it so

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I would be fine with that too.

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>You ignored what I said about bugs
There is no room for bugs if the code already is in the game and has been there for years, and has been in gameplay. Did you try your hand at coding stuff user?
>new balance issues
You ignored what I said about beta test servers, people can do this for valve like a free workforce. Like they did before.

>and stock being the best option is a good thing in an F2P game if you don't want to be P2W
stock can remain the best generalist option, but there's literally nothing wrong with a non-stock weapon excelling over stock in some kind of niche situation, which valve seems to fucking hate with a passion because they're nerfing anything and everything into total uselessness (except the actually OP weapons like diamondback and wrangler)

>really good passive melee
>compfags whine
>now it's worse than stock

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I miss the like week where charge let you retain your meter, so with the Persian persuader you could effectively wave dash. I was getting to mid in 5cps right beside the scouts

Where the fuck is the engi webm

it's fun

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Demo's melee loadout is almost perfect now, don't ask them to fuck it up thanks.

it's always some retarded youtube eceleb that cause outrage
>waa waa something me like changed - NOT GOOD!!!!
and then their retarded fanbase parrot and spam it on every forum and in every game

every
time

>Dragon's Fury was perfect.
It was LITERALLY (as in LITERALLY) broken.

make sure to pick up at least one objector with your waifu on it
harness the power of love and take your frags to the next level

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>except the actually OP weapons like diamondback
...people really believe this? The theorycrafting around here is getting to stupid levels now

>t. shit spy that can't into positioning

why the fuck can't they make a video about how shit casual games are when people are cheating so much

>Winger
Are you retarded? Bonk! And Cola are far better options, and Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol at original stats far outweighed fast bullets or a bigger jump.

Give turning to the shields and I'll agree. I think it's a fair comp swapping out stickers for shields if I could use the targe again instead of the others.

No they made it worse

...

Used to be Targe, boots, Half-zat for me.

To be fair I think sniper is fundamentally poor design to a degree in this game due to how fights are done, and high tier scorers on sniper are incredibly frustrating to deal with due to his gameplay style involving being behind his whole team, but I understand that if he didn't exist heavy and jumping classes would totally ruin shit

nerf the diamond back guys!
The diamond back can't melt a whole team
and you have to be doing well as spy to get the crits instead of spamming your secondary from spawn.

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Shield mechanics do need buffing in some way that's true.

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>one item is bad, that means the other item must be bad too

>shoot at Pyro
>tries to reflect
>backs up still trying
>atomized

Can you not read in context?
"Best side grades", not "best upgrades"
Reading comprehension nigga

because they play in gated communities, and dont ever interact with normal people
same shit with all ecelebs in all games

look games like Siege or WoW (two biggest examples coming to my mind right now):

In WoW, for the entirety of last expansion, Asmongold got carried in every raid tier, every mythic+ season and every PvP season
Now in BFA, his carries have stopped playing with him, he's started to realise that the game isnt as "easy" as he thought it was, because he's not being carried
and he's cried like a little bitch since the first raid opened up last year
he hasnt cleared a single tier on mythic this expac, and hasnt even got the (very easy) achi of completing all m+ at 10 or higher, and he "grinds pvp rating off stream" (he's paying for boosts now, instead of having a guild boost him for free)

BikiniBohdi, some retarded SHITTER who's stuck in gold every season complains that ash is a broken operator and needed changing
Keep in mind bikini is a shitter, but gets carried by AP1, Shatte and plays with other pros and high ranked players, simply because of exposure/money (i cant express how bad he is at siege honestly, he's fucking dogshit)
eventually after enough crying, posting on reddit, posting on twitter and getting his youtuber/twitch followers to brigade for him, ubisoft removed the ACOG from ash at the start of Y4S1 (nobody I know above gold even uses ACOG on ash because most of us play 4:3 rather than 16:9)
but his retarded crying and incessant faggotry and viewers got the game changed

ecelebs ALWAYS ruin games because they think their opinion matters

This, but part of the fun of TF2 is making dumb specialized builds.

You know they reverted that, right? It multihits people again as of Blue Moon.
However they did make the projectile hitbox smaller when they tried to fix an energy weapon bug where energy beams were getting deleted when passing through map door zones, so it's still weak and needs buffing, but at least it can multihit again

Did they ever fix the reload sound for the Cow Mangler? I remember the sound being faster than the actual reload time.

Diamondback is the second worst secondary option on the worst class in the game.
What forms this retarded logic that it "needs a nerf"? Did you look at its stats on paper and just theorycraft that it must be OP?

>Play Engineer in 6v6
No.
>Random crits are bad
This is true
>Pyro takes skill to use
He takes skill if you play in a fun way. Ironically though, he's most effective when you play in a simple way
>Patch all hiding places on every map
No.
>TF2 must become an E-sport
E-sport is autistic, and TF2 was never meant to be played competitively.
>Community servers were all 24/7 2Fort
Wrong. There was also 24/7 German Orange.
>I know more about the game's design than the people who actually developed it
Thing is, the people who developed it don't actually give a shit or even know about the mistakes they've made.
>I started playing 2013, that makes me a veteran
No one cares how long you've played for, if your opinion is retarded
>Casual must be taken seriously
No. Casual is fine the way it is right now, we just need to remove random crits.
>I love this game, that's why I want to change everything that makes it unique
What did he mean by this?
>Remove weapon spread
It won't have any impact in casual whatsoever, because even if you miss a shot or 2, you're probably still playing against troglodytes
>TF2 Community = reddit community
What did he mean by this?
>Buy my shirts
E-celeb shill. His designs are awful, too

Post direct upgrades to stock
Machina
GRU
Spycicle
Escape Plan/Disciplinary Action
Ubersaw
Third Degree
Original
Crusaders Crossbow
Iron Bomber

>direct
Princessbridespaniardcliff.tiff

Atomizer, because there's no reason to use any other bat

What is reading comprehension?
people are crying about a gun that can't even one shot light classes instead of an actually busted weapon.

you're retarded. stick to pubs.

let's see how well you build uber with atomizer

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>Iron Bomber
only nerf i'd say it needs, is slightly less damage on rollers since it's easier to do damage with them.

>dude just give Spy a sniper lmao
You wanna give Sniper an invisibility watch too? How about giving Medic a rocket launcher while we're at it.

Fuck off, b4nny

Join discordapp.com/invite/jdEFGnU

Reduced the resistances to worse than chargin' targe and anything can stop you while you charge

what a shithole, never joining such a trash server again

>dude giving the worst class in the game an use is bad lmao

valve pls buff

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>let's give sniper instant pont blank crits
Jar and bush, quick scope too.
>medic a launcher
Crossbow can ramp up to great damage.
Fact is, class homogenization has came and went a long time ago, yet it's only morons like you that can't seem to understand spy is the one that gets the brunt of it when that happens.

Come to think of it, any weapon that rewards you for killing by letting you kill more efficiently is essentially broken.
Weapons that farm a jose.hernandez2010 playing spy on my team are not fun to fight against. There's no weaknesses for me to exploit after a guy gets a kill.

This sends the comp cuck into a frothing seethe.

this
Buff the firing speed and make it airblast better than stock

Is it safe to play on yuro servers yet or is every server still being crashed/full of aimbotting snipers?

Eye doesn't seem too unfair if only because it involves melee, but it's still on the fence of being fair

It won't get buffed because the average redditard still thinks it's very strong even after the nerf when in reality even pre-nerf it couldn't compete with stock

Just lessen the penalty on missed shots. It does a lot of damage if you hit every shot, but if you ever miss you're fucked.

>It does a lot of damage if you hit every shot
Does it even do more damage than flamethrower if you don't miss?

Eyelander on 4 heads is a bitch to catch up to and kill for good, since he has 210 hp and resistances. Small range and one 195 hit in a while tho so it's all good.
You know what's broken? If a demo gets 4 heads and switches to sticky launcher. Then you have to deal with a class that can outspeed, outdamage and outtank you.
Eyelander should not give benefits unless you have a shield equipped.

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Give him a jamming field as a new weapon to replace sapper that stops stickies from being exploded, interferes with sentries, removes scout's double jump, interrupts healing.

Give all revolvers a little less damage falloff

Yes.
Someone pointed out once that the target being up against the wall negatively affects the flamethrower's damage due to flame particle fuckery, but I've been too lazy to make another recording and the Dragon's fury still wins out regardless.

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I'm sick of seeing this.

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>Yea Forums tf2 threads are almost on par with /tf2g/
Jesus please no

youtube.com/watch?v=Ae6-W5rWeqE&feature=youtu.be&t=456
Stock is more effective at actually getting kills despite, in theory, doing less damage

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See, I'd be fine with it only applying for shields, as pills and shields with eye is a fair risk reward system, launcher kind of ruins that risk aspect

it's not worth going for that outside of a lot of pubs.
the moment you die, you're back to 0, so you're better off just sticking with stock all the time.

is wrap assassin still good

>Fix Matchmaking, I don't play it and I don't know what's wrong with it but fix it

>can't wait for partyvan

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Why does valve nerf anything with pyro that requires aiming?

All this talk about how to fix certain weapons like rebuffing the amby, the brass beast, the caber, dragon's fury, and a large, large etcetera; about why we should remove random crits, about how to fix or straight up ditch CTF as a whole, but I'm yet to hear from those TF2Tubers about unfuck the incomplete frankenstein freak that the Classic is.

The only trait it has from the TFC rifle is the charging movement and that's literally it. The bodyshot damage is retarded, like if a completely different playstyle for Sniper wasn't enough, it also still has the vanilla circular scoping overlay instead of not having one or at least a rectangular one, nor it halves the target's movement by shooting at the legs for half the damage. It doesn't even have its characteristic knockback based on charge. I can understand that they dedided to not give it knocback to teammates for maybe griefing reasons, even tho back in the day that usually didn't happen, but there is no excuse to not have it against enemies.

This weapon as it is right now it belongs to the trash can. It was supossed to give Sniper a new different meta but instead we just got a half assed downgrade.

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It's an autist from /vg/, just filter him

Well yeah, that's why I want it to be buffed.

But the engravings give you no tactical advantage.

>buffs cloak and dagger
>makes Your Eternal Reward easier to use

the only thing I miss is the silent backstab icicle

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it's retardedly broken and needs to be fixed.
the projectile hitbox size doesn't match the displayed projectile, the hit tolerance thing outright doesn't work meaning you'll miss shit half the time, and it can still fucking shoot through certain surfaces on the maps.

GIVE IT BACK. THIS ISNT RIGHT IT WAS OURS

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It's a meme weapon. It's fun, but pretty bad

This game died the moment they removed passive effects from weapons.

So were most weapons when they came out, it's also when people consider TF2 to be in its 'glory days'. Funny how that works.

Pubs are the only place the diamondback is a problem though, in a game where people communicate it's useless for the same reasons spy as a whole is useless.

>dude giving the worst class in the game something to further encourage him to avoid doing his fucking job is good lmao

post your loadouts

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You got owned!!

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LimeScouts need to be circumcised

I really just want them to revert the eternal reward back to how it was. It's just not fun to play with anymore, it's way too
OP.

Can I still be that cancer spy who just doesn't die thanks to chaining DR?

>implying spy and scout don't counter sniper
*laughs in meatshot*

P-please use us

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Stock bat is still pretty good

>if a medic dies with uber you can pick up his medigun and use it
holy shit

No
Dr now only recharges naturally and has way less damage resistance
Hey
Stock bat isn't bad

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refer to

>playing spy
HAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAH

strictly worse than the fish

how many fucking bot games do i need to be kicked from until valve fixes this shit?

is there any other online game this popular as fucking broken as this shit?

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Reminder that if you play matchmaking instead of Community Servers, you're the faggot cancer killing TF2.

New sniper primary.
+can turn invisible
-14% damage
Totally balanced guys.

TL;DR

>QoL & Bugfixes: I.E. fixing stairs to use the proper clipping brush so they ascend smoothly instead of in jittery bounces, make competitive not shit, remove crits from casual mode, interp limit/melee hitcode rework, and more communication from the TF2 team whether it be good or bad news

Balance Changes
>Scout: Buff Baby Face Blaster, make the Guillotine a Combo Weapon again (maybe with the Wrap Attack, but not with stuns again)
>Soldier: Fix Bison hitbox
>Pyro: Buff Sharpened Volcano Fragment
>Demo: Fix the caber so it can consistently kill 125HP classes again
>Heavy: Buff Brass Beast (more damage resist or crit resistance), Steak Sandvich (shouldn't make the Heavy so vulnerable), and Warrior's Spirit (no details)
>Engineer: Buff Pomson, but don't revert it to it's original incarnation, nerf Wrangler.
>Medic: Either the Crossbow needs to be nerfed, or Syringe Guns need to be buffed, as there's really no reason to use anything but the Crossbow now

>Sniper: Nerf quickscoping to 110 damage, so a quickscope + bodyshot can reliably down a Medic and below (as 100 HS and 50 BS wouldn't do it due to Medic's innate health regen), and force Snipers to focus more on scoping in to charge shots, which would have the side benefit of benefiting the Sydney Sleeper and Classic
>Spy: Amby needs to be either partially or fully reverted, as the issue with the Amby before Jungle Inferno was due to its pairing with the DR which was obscene at the time. Now that the DR is nerfed, the Amby doesn't seem like it would be too bad with its original stats. Otherwise, remove the fall-off but keep the max headshot range, maybe even increase it to 100ft (as right now it's at 75ft), or a compromise where up to 100ft it does 102, and after that THEN the falloff starts to apply going from 101 all the way down to 54 depending on distance. Nerf Diamondback, maybe by making it so that it can only consume crits when not disguised. Allow Spy to mimic class-specific actions (scoping, revving), and be able to easily mimic reloads while disguised by pressing reload. Rework Enforcer to be more building focused than player focused, i.e. bonus damage to buildings or the Sapper Armor Sentries get doesn't apply to it. Buff Red Tape Recorder, no specifics.

>remove crits from casual mode

Retarded, stopped reading here

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>there's really no reason to use anything but the Crossbow now
The chad combat medic disagrees.
Take away self regen entirely on crossbow. Give it projectile deviation like Beggar's Luckzooka.

>there's really no reason to use anything but the Crossbow now

Syringe gun damage is pretty silly in hallways.

there are literally 0 people working on TF2.
valve probably isn't even aware of any issues

>Remove spawn x-rays
this is broken as fuck

New Content

>Heavy: Primary that either enhances his tanking ability or enhances the ability to Fat Scoot, i.e. explosive bullet Bandolier.
>Demo: Gib Market Gardener
>Engie: Colt Revolver Primary
>Spy: Hologram Watch a la Halo
>General: New stranges even for stuff like the Jumpers (would track distance traveled). More Player Destruction maps since they're basically TDM and completely reworking them would be a pain, so just gib more.

Sure, as long as you have the decloak time, you'll get fucked every time. Also have your crit damage be based on range, have fun being useless.

Someone approves the community items once in a while. Probably like a side gig.

>make competitive not shit
retarded. valve needs to admit comp mode was a gigantic failure and abandon it completely. stop fucking wasting precious tf2 dev time on a dead mode that less than 100 people even play.

You bet i do, Shovel and Bonesaw are kino.

Retard.

>phone poster excepts people to take him seriously

sticky jumper, parachute, caber

cry more nigga

>Tighter spread on all Revolvers but Ambassador since it can already "cool down" to be extremely accurate
>Buff cloak fade times to be faster (i.e. a half second to fully cloak, and 1 second to fully decloak (current times are 1 and 2 seconds respectively)
>Buff cloak durations: Invis Watch should be a flat 10, CnD should be 8, and DR should be 6. Current values are 9, 6.6, and 7.
>Cloak should only flicker on taking damage, and only if the damage taken exceeds 10 points.
>Remove the cloak drain penalty from the YER, and replace it with a cloak gained from metal penalty.
>Use the glow outline system to always be displaying enemy's current health - green for above 75%, Yellow for 40-74%, and Red for below 40%. Alternatively, always show the health display icon above their heads instead of having to mouse over them to see it. Extend this change to the Solemn Vow too.
>Remove damage falloff penalty on the Ambassador's headshots. Range restriction can stay however.
>Make the RTR be an AoE sapper that will affect ALL buildings within a certain small range rather than having to be placed on every single one.
>Nerf the Homewrecker and Neon Annihilator vs Sappers. It can damage them to slow the rate of damage to a crawl, but it cannot completely remove them. Engineers should be the only ones able to remove Sappers.
>Nerf Spycicle afterburn immunity time. 10 seconds is way too fuckin' long.

AND YOU COULD HAVE IT ALL
MY EMPIRE OF NERFS

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Attached: Your Daily Dose.png (1437x691, 524K)

BASE Jumper, Quickiebomb Launcher, Anything you want.
For some reason this makes people irrationally angry despite its damage penalty and 50% shot capacity but it's great once you learn to embrace charge shots.

Probably said in this thread before but I just want an update bros.
I just want a fucking update.
Move the game to Source 2. Make TF3. Add the Heavy update. Even do another community update. I don't fucking care, just do something. I miss the Love & War days, Yea Forums.
Fuck.

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>load up alt account to fuck with lmaobox
>wallhacks, norecoil, and autobackstab enabled
>I'm the predator.tiff
>highlight one player at random and bully them as Spy the entire match

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Enjoy ur VACation.

I'm just kidding everyone knows VAC is a limp dick against LMAOBox.

>The only melee which isn't useless is the Powerjack which is solely used as utility
>he doesn't Pybro with the homewrecker
Deleting spies from the game and making all their efforts worthless is the most satisfying thing about playing Pyro.

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base jumper
scottish resistance
caber

>Enough time has passed that CnD subhumans think they are good again
NO!

I never understood this. Their reasoning for the nerf was that "It isn't fun to get killed across the map by this" or something. But if I was killed by the Ambassador consistently across the map I'd be more like "holy shit good aim" because that's honestly impressive by my standards. I feel like they listened to people who bitch too much. The caber nerf was extremely retarded. I never got pissed at the caber because it's just fucking funny to get killed by a flying Scottish black suicide bomber. Shit makes me lose hope in the game because they're trying to make it more competitive over fun for some reason. When TF2 was never supposed to be extremely serious in the first place.

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New Dead Ringer:
*Now triggered on successful backstab instead of when damaged
*this means you can attack while holding it up
+Cloak no longer decreases by 50% when triggered
+Use mouse 3 to trigger a more normal invisibility mode
*Cloak drains 65% faster during mouse 3 invisibility
-Holding up the dead ringer while not disguised marks you for death

It's true that I've never been VACed once in 3 years but I have gotten at least 8 accounts a matchmaking ban due to people reporting me.

Jokes on them. Nobody plays their shitty competitive mode anyway.

>Their reasoning for the nerf was that "It isn't fun to get killed across the map by this"

The reasoning is it's not fun to die to a headshot from a guy 3 feet away yes this is broken on Sniper too, quickshotting is not skillful or hard

How about you stop being a discount idiot and start being unique & viable

>"lol look he hit that guy with a severed penis"
that's the most reddit image i've seen in a while

>Balance matters for pubs a little bit
meanwhile vac running healsluts and their bfs stomp pubs uncontested because nobody uses team work in pubs

If you had aim and could consistently hit headshots, the amby was (and remains in some ways) an infinitely better alternative because you can use it to harass engineers from distances.

>Sniper gets behind you and starts popping heads.
>First off, how the fuck did he get there? Either way, callout his location and he's dead in the next 20 seconds
>Frenchman gets behind you.
>Callout his location and no one can find/kill him because he's jacking off in some corner waiting for people to stop and realize that chasing a ghost is a waste of time.
>If he dies he'll just come back to do it again anyway because it's impossible to have a Pyro at every chokepoint 24/7 to make sure some french faggot can't slip past.
It didn't deserve to get nerfed as hard as it did but fuck frenchmen and fuck you for thinking it wasn't a problem.

That's why you don't go Ham with it.

Most I ever used it for was to have silent aim on with an FOV of 1 to combat against the shitty hit detection the game has, and to enable custom content on Casual servers.

>makes you mad

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deleting an entire class's great effort with no skill input of your own is anything BUT satisfying, you dumb retard

>enemy team losing
>suddenly go 3 medic
>win
Shut the fuck up about spies and snipers, how come nobody complains about the one mandatory class in the game?

Not always. A good 60% of the time though.

>Team manages to get an all-heavy or some other class rush going
>Enemy team pulls out the vaccinator medics

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>that one enemy Pyro who dedicates himself to autistically spraying around the engie's nest for le boogeyman spy instead of actually fending off the other team

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Too bad demoknight does it better while getting benefits from it

Pre-nerf ambassador and sandman were objectively broken.

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>not using the scorch shot for less harmful flare jumps

>But if I was killed by the Ambassador consistently across the map I'd be more like "holy shit good aim" because that's honestly impressive by my standards
That's all fine and well but what do you do to stop it? Spy can be anywhere on the map and ambassador gives him enough range he can headshot you, cloak, and run away before you can catch him. The ambassador nerf was overkill but there was a good reason for it.

Sandman yes, Ambassador no. Ambassador was only perceived broken because it was commonly paired with the DR.

>t. cuckold who spends the entire game babysitting the engineer who thinks holding down m1 next to a dispenser is hard

>ambassador
>objectivity broken
You're objectively a retard

detonator damage scales with how far away it is just like rocket jumps. you don't have to blow your legs off every time. it has way more applications and it's a better weapon overall.
youtube.com/watch?v=hgSdBW9njK0&t=6m36s

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The Ambassador only required you to have good aim with your shots to be "broken." Should we nerf Sniper next? He can headshot people from across the map and he has the luxury of a scope too.

ambassador and revolver had equal use prior to the nerf. plat spies generally ran ambassador and prem spies ran revolver. it was never broken.

Yes, we should nerf sniper.

a good spy is still an absolute nightmare to deal with, i don't know why people call him weak

It's better because it's quieter than the jetpack, if the jetpack didn't make an ear raping sound it'd easily outclass the detonator solely because of how much health you're expending just for one jump

if amby was broken it would be banned in comp and yet it literally never was

Because basic voice communication can render him completely useless.

Just use the big earner or dead ringer to escape, bro