What went wrong?

I played a Tauren hunter back in the day and had a ton of fun. What's wrong with them?

shittiest race/class combo
fucking worthless and steal your loot

Why would you need hunter loot, user?

the racials are so marginal at end game you autist

soul
soulless

None of their abilities really played well with the class itself.

Orcs had bonus pet damage, Night Elves could shadowmeld and hide alongside a stealthed pet for ambushes, even Dwarves had a bonus with guns. Tauren? They got extra HP and an herbalism bonus.

>hunter loot

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>He doesn't know about the melee range increase that makes their deadzone smaller
Get wing clipped fuckboy

I'm not going to mention every single flaw I can think of but clearly blizzard is not trying at all and they don't care.
>Unbalanced and unsatisfying specs
>They take ages to fix them
>Artificial content based on time gates and AP bullshit
>Retarded decisions like forced master loot to cater to the most casual
>Laughable and awful story writing
I don't understand why the fact that they charge a monthly fee for this garbage isn't brought up at all.

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I haven't played WoW since vanilla, anybody remember how you would go about getting a horse mount as a Dwarf? Do you need rep with Humans or?

You need to be exalted with Humans to buy horses I believe.

you need to be exalted with stormwind if you're not human

You either donate cloth to humans at Stormwind until exalted or grind rank 11 pvp rank to get a dark horse.

dick move but kinda funny

>What's wrong with them?
nothing unless you're a min/max autist

roll a paladin and get a golden armored horse

Burning Crusade actually

You also get decent rep in AV, from what I remember. Handing in supplies and completing objectives during the fight awards small amounts of rep for all Alliance/Horde factions.

them's fightin' words

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Pandas

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This
Fuck flying mounts and fuck tokens
What were they thinking and why is everybody conveniently trying to forget it really was the expansion that ruined the game

t. belf

when they had the battle chest for WoW and Diablo 2, i look back and think soul, just based on the idea. now i guess everything is digital or cards. I miss purchasing PC games with discs, gave a feeling of actually owning the game, despite it coming with a product key/code.

OFFICIAL WEIRD BASTARD CHARACTERS:
>male tauren hunter
>male night elf priest
>male human warlock
>female dwarf rogue

What am i missing

Well now they've made everything from the base game up to and including Legion free to play so you just need to download the client. Wouldn't really make sense to do a physical bundle anymore.

what the fuck is weird about human warlock?

yeah i agree, no need to manufacture a physical copies when a digital ready and able to download. its make more sense in the end.

Male troll warrior?

This was my main when I started in 2004, didn't know any better, just troll aesthetics always appealed to me for some reason. Also I thought the only thing that mattered was dps on weapons so leveling was fun

Ahem, ahem:
FUCK GNOMES
FUCK MINMAXERS
FUCK NIGHT ELVES WHO NAME THEMSELVES AS SOME VARIATION OF LEGOLAS
HORDE>ALLIANCE, SHAMAN>PALADIN

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it's not smaller, just starts farther from you, which is awful

>male gnome anything
Always a guaranteed asshole

Fem Gnomes are just casuals

Buff WWE guy doing incantations and curses and shit is weird. Also theyre just rarer because lolalliance and gnomes are more meta

I like Troll Warriors.

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All the middle aged men from the 90s and early 2000s don't make games anymore because they were successful, now people that studied "video game design" in uni make games.

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TAZ’DINGO

ok with everything but
>FUCK NIGHT ELVES WHO NAME THEMSELVES AS SOME VARIATION OF LEGOLAS
these people are actually master baiters poking fun at the "DarkSauske666" Nelf crowd taking itself very seriously and RPing as deep, silent and mysterious assassins.

That's bizarre, every Male Gnome I've met has either been a bro or an autist.

>Female Tauren anything

Can't wait to make my Fem Tauren Shaman.

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We're gonna do this again. Do you call this DM or VC? Wrong answers are sentenced to farming boar asses for the next 10 years.

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VC

Umfff

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DM. And I like shitposting about this very same question in Westfall/Stormwind, any time I can.

The QoL additions of TBC that worked well with the game got expanded upon until they ended up choking it.

The heroic stepping stone to acclimatise people to raid stakes became the heroic faceroll.
The badge loot to help gear for raids and supplement early raids became welfare loot anyone could get easily.
Making attunements in line with gearing for the content eventually became just having gear
Making the end game grind requirements easier became making it brainless.
The gear to help PvP players compete with raiders ended up completely segregating PvP from PvE.
Flying mounts with factions, maps, locations and factions based around them became something taken for granted.
Making more class specialisations viable became making them all homogeneous.
Bringing back characters held in reserve from WC3 became being afraid of new characters and relying solely on nostalgia
FUCKING CORRUPTION
TEMPEST KEEP WAS JUST A SETBACK

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DM since the dungeon is called fucking Deadmines

Nice.

What class wear gear the best? I just want to look cool with sets.

>What went wrong?

>pushing some overarching narrative with insultingly bad writing@muh cinematic experience at the forefront instead of focusing on just worldbuilding
>cross realm outside of battlegrounds
>auto dungeon finder
>auto raid finder
>making the game about weeklies
>making rare, epic and legendary items meaningless
>flying
>killing attunement
>quest markers
>bombard players with said meaningless items
>removing all the thinking that goes into gearing (all about ilevel now, no more unique effects, only DPS matters and not speed, etc)
>trying to balance the game by making classes similar
>basing 90% of classes on procs
>making mana meaningless
>basically turning their mmorpg into a shitty pseudo arpg
>"bring the player, not the class"
>excessive pruning
>celestalon
>too much convenience at the price of immersion
>Cataclysm
>heirlooms
>making armor sets look ugly and soulless
>haking professions pointless
>making gold worthless
>adding 20 tier of difficulty per raid

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DM. It's called the fucking Deadmines.
If someone's too dense a retard to figure out which one a level 18 is going to, or too lazy to shift click, that's their problem.

Based

Gonna roll a fem tauren anything when playing with Yea Forums

Unironically this.

i call it home bro

correct
Get to grinding niggers
[Red Defias Mask]

And then everyone clapped, updooted.
>/invite one of the 26 other tanks queued up
L-O-FUCKING-L

i seriously enjoyed westfall,fight me

It truly started in Burning Crusade. Everyone lauded the whole other map and the flying mounts, but that was the beginning. WoW was great because everyone was running around the same map. Those higher leveled still had to run through low level areas and this would cause all sorts of interactions and stories. A whole new playground for high levels and the ability to just skip everything out on the ground ruined that. It's not like there wasn't plenty of space on the two continents for new zones, although I admit they would inevitably run out over the years.

I guess they were damned from the start. As they said themselves, no king rules forever.

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*fights u*

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I'm going to force you to shift click everyone making a group to DM and there's nothing you can do about it.
And don't forget, Dire Maul isn't in the first phase. People will use DM for Deadmines for weeks if not months, and won't change when it comes out

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You mean because they weren't included earlier?

I'm either gonna make an undead mage or troll hunter first char since both have easy leveling and can also grind gold for my alts, but I can't decide. Help me out here. Also plan to take a break from leveling around 27-30 to stay in Wetlands to gank NE pilgrimage faggots

this is sneed country son

what happened. are things ok. i never played it

Never understood the confusion. DM what? Is it a east, north, tribute or jump run.

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Tauren Hunter

>>pushing some overarching narrative with insultingly bad writing@muh cinematic experience at the forefront instead of focusing on just worldbuilding
Completely agree with this.

I couldn't give a flying fuck about the "storyline". Just give us background about the world and let us write our own story. WoW turned into a cheesy soap opera.

Finally it's coming
The Tortanic of our generation

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>stat squishes
>Blizzard goes full retard with stats per tier that everyone ends up with over 5 times the amount of health they started with in bfa anyway
why even bother

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>midna mousepad
>managed to get a wife and a kid
like what the fuck

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Private servers, user.
People who played it originally would know that, since it wasn't out on release, the appellation of DM had already stuck for the lower levels, and the different wings meant that it was easier to specify anyway.

I like troll aesthetics though. Might make a tauren shaman along the way

>all the boomers tears suddenly realizing they will never relive their teen years because of a shitty MMO

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I think that was the final nail for me.
Game feels like such a fucking clusterfuck now. Nothing matters. The skinner box is exposed for all to see.

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I guess I'm the opposite kind of player from a lot of you guys in this thread, in that I enjoyed pvp moreso than dungeons. But, of course, even that got ruined as the expansions rolled out. PvP used to be a very fast paced fight between players where anyone could die easily if they weren't fast enough to counter each other's abillities. Now it's just two dudes attacking each other with their "rotations" for 10 minutes while they heal forever. Feels like the only way to kill anyone in nu-wow is to have a big group of players burst one guy all at once. It really takes away from the world feeling dangerous and exciting when individual players can't actually kill each other by themselves. Try levelling a new character in modern wow and trying to, for example, fight off an equal level priest or druid who is contesting your mobs. You literally can't. He'll just heal forever until one of you is forced to walk away from the fight.

Dire Maul came out March 2005, only 4 months after the game came out. By this time there were already enough high level players to be wanting Dire Maul and people were still just starting the game so enough people would be needing Deadmines. You can call it private servers but I remember in 2005 people using VC in trade chat to avoid confusion, at least on Tichondrious and Azgalor.

What does VC even stand for? I played horde and figured everyone called it deadmines.

True! Not False!

I played Arathor until halfway through TBC and never once heard it.

DM, everything else is plain wrong. Dire Maul is DME, DMW and DMN.

Van Cleef, the final boss of the dungeon.

You won't be using guns at 60 though.

Lots of kill quests, which is good. But you should go there at like level 12, do three quests, then don't come back until like level 18.

It's not an RPG anymore and more than that I don't even feel like a character in a world anymore, I never roleplayed but i'd still think of my guy as a character in a world to some extent but I can't even do that now when most content is accessed through ways that a character in game wouldn't be able to access.

The world now exists solely for questing and world quests that feel entirely out of place within the context of the world, at least I got a daily from an NPC in a faction with a clear goal and reason for being there.

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Only newfags call it VC. Dire maul didn't even exist when we were doing deadmines.

Yes but in March 2005 do you think noobs knew that at first?

Ah right. I remember when my spells used to nuke the fuck out of people in WotLK if they let me cast it. Felt visceral to have abilities feel like they matter.

Literally did not hear anyone call it VC until like cata or MoP.

>when we were doing deadmines
You know that the playerbase continued rising from release for years? There were always new people

Weird, guess it was a server thing
What server?

Yeah, I told you newfags call it VC. In vanilla we didn't though.

I did read that question 10 times now and still don't get what you getting at. The dungeon i literally called Deadmines and comes way before Dire Maul. Deadmines got called DM first, than came Dire Maul, and to avoid confusion you added the wing to it aka DMN/E/W

dm, lowercase. Everyone and their mother, when looking for Dire Maul runs, specified which wing/tribute they were interested in.

Wrong, it was called VC or DM variously by server. On my server VC was the understood initialism.

Exactly. It feels like you're sitting in a battle.net lobby and playing mini-games through a menu.

Why is WoW the only current mmo with an open world it's what I miss most when I try other mmos.

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In vanilla some did. As and said it was probably a server thing

Activision

I can't speak for all MMOs but XIV and ESO are also on consoles so that probably limits things.

Horde would always call it VC, even in Vanilla. DM was reserved for Dire Maul, and Deadmines was far less important to us so giving the letters to Dire Maul after it came out was no big.

>screaming druid
Subtle

>if you didn't play in the 4 months between release and Dire Maul you're a newfag
Fuck off with that, I played on Archimonde and Azgalor and it was always VC. I bet you started in WotLK and only played Vanilla on private servers.

Nostalrius. Home.

Oh shit you played on Azgalor too? Horde or Alliance?

>I bet you started in WotLK and only played Vanilla on private servers.
What makes you say that? Because I call you a newfag, you call me a newfag? lol

Horde is not important.

You got that backwards.
Female gnome players, especially the ones with pink pigtails, are the biggest assholes in the community.

isn't sxsw the hipster convention in austin

ew

>Fem Gnomes are just casuals

Judging by the recent arrest, Fem Gnomes are on several watchlists.

>t. kited by frostshock
>t. lost the SS vs TM battle
>t. faggy 12 year old players
>t. women
Pick all

ICC onwards

Murlocs are annoying. Harvest golem are fucking strong. HUH kills you out of nowhere.

Game became "raid or quit" cramming people into instances for pve and pvp
The world seemed less alive because of it
Those that hated raiding had no option but to leave as raid gear greatly surpassed normal gear
Crafting became useless
We pleaded in the forums that these 1% raiders they cater for would destroy this game and we was right.

Caster classes got way too powerful by naxx and will dominate the pvp scene due to the lack of gear to counter them effectively.

Based, this is what my Rogue is going to be.

Almost all world firsts in vanilla were alliance.

put an halo cap in the end

Doesn't make my post any less right.

No but it sort of implies that children and women were better than you.

>implying your perceived poopsock elite raiders got beat by 12 year olds and women through out vanilla
That's even more sad.

Horde were too busy stylin on you nerds in world PVP

Azgalor was where I had a few Alliance characters, but I was primarily Archimonde Horde.
Because your criteria for calling other people newfags is laughably bad and reeks of someone trying to feel superior over nothing.

>horde 60s ganking low levels in STV to make themselves feel better
Even in BGs, horde weren't doing so hot. If ganking in world pvp is all you have, that's pretty sad.

If you call deadmines DM, you are superior. Sorry to break it to you, I don't make the rules.

Fuuuck Azgalor was for my Hordies, had my Alliance on Tich. We might've ganked eachother a few times ;')

>taking what I said out of context
I clearly mentioned SS vs TM in my first post, and if you're gonna pull the "hurr 60's ganking lowbies" card because you don't have an argument you just prove my point

>hurr 60's ganking lowbies is valid PvP
:^)

lol cringebaby that never played

How is world pvp out of context of world pvp? I can't say I've seen much proof of horde winning SS vs TM more often than alliance either.

Never said that, you're the one trying to say that's what I meant when I said world PVP

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troll warriors are actually the best minmax class on horde for warr tanking

Leveling with your buddy and then killing the skull that tried to gank you is the only true pvp.

Female troll anything almost don't exist.

This

No need to cry fren

It's okay, in TBC horde gets to be the big boy faction.

>Belves
No.

retards focusing only in raids

it has nothing to do with what any of the races look like. In TBC, horde is just better.

>referring to an instance by its main boss's initials
>actually thinking it's a bad idea to use DM because you believe some level 17 in westfall is going to think you mean Dire Maul

herp derp

Based.

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>Tfw exploring comfy dun morogh with a cup of coco
Where my dwarf/gnome bois at

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How hard is it to find a group as dps? Is it like retail in that it's like pulling teeth?

coco if you're a gnome
ale if you're a dwarf

Its not quite like in retail seeing as the creation of groups aren't automatic and there isn't any cross server shit. So you kind of go with what you can find, you'll have to start your own groups a lot too. The only bad part really is when you get 3 dps and 1 healer and have to wait like 40 minutes until you find a tank.

Everyone has their favorite starting zone, whats yours?

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there's a dire, DIRE shortage of tanks on northdale, hope classic isn't like this, spending up to an hour trying to find a tank for SFK or ZF etc

Eversong by a country mile. Say whatever you want about Blood Elves, Eversong and Ghostlands are 10/10.

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Durotar>Dun Morogh>Mulgore>Elwynn>Tirisfal>Teldrassil

All the hunter hate in this thread reminds of that based guild leader, Avatar, who tanked Nefarian on his hunter.
youtube.com/watch?v=cmhVQLfSrUo

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I had a gnome rogue at 60 back in the day, raided pretty casually before joining a relatively serious guild doing BWL progression.

One day after being on reserve for the 2nd raid in a row i just said fuck it and created a shaman alt, levelled them up to 60, logged back in to my rogue 2 months later to find myself kicked from my guild. Went horde and never looked back.

Joined a casual guild levelling and finally hit 60 on my shaman and started playing casually doing 5 mans with the friendly guild, and I didn't have great gear but damn if it wasn't the comfiest, best times of my WoW experience.

You don't need to raid and be an autist to have a good time lads

/blog

Elwynn, it's the one that gives me the most nostalgia. Dun morogh a close second.

Teldrassil. Though to be honest I think Ghostlands is the best designed low level zone they ever put together.

>quit a guild for 2 months because he was shit and got benched and didn't tell anyone
>mad he got kicked
kek the state of alliance players

I like the hunter hate. Makes it easier to stand out as a good one when 99% of hunters are retarded and the stigma means no one ever expects anything of you.

One Gnome Warlock coming up. Will see if you can still stack World Enlarger with Noggenfogger.

based! gnome rogue here
Its too fun being a little midget assassin

Why are you in this thread?

This guy gets it. It's all about the comfy times. There's no worse feeling than getting benched for raids. /gquit and never look back if that ever happens to you.

Horde* players
At least try to read

Nostalrius.
It ruined everything.

youtube.com/watch?v=fLWuADfyq7E

Can't wait for retail babies to be as confused as this cunt

you rageswitched to horde lmao

people making the hottest race into horsecock futas

Why can't I use guns bitch? I don't give a fuck what's the "best", as long as I'm not too far behind.

thats based though

Thanks N'zoth that Sylvanas burned that shithole down

no it isn't
it's gay as fuck

>omg this is so hard
>i hate this game
>hehe quest has writing sound
>this will definitely be my FIRST and LAST time playing this dumb game
Kill me.

cringe

based

>/gkick

they were within their rights to kick me, i was still on probation, not mad just telling the story as it happened

It is indeed, running scholo, DM, strat, L/UBRS with the same crew and even wiping etc was so much more fun than raiding with 40 people you barely know with tranny drama etc

probation lmfao

shitter alert

I know you're trolling but any guild worth their salt has a probation period, I had just joined after all

There aren't any good epic guns.

lol probation period is for new kids that werent recommended by friends already in the guild

get good

>pve on a gnome rogue
loool

>muh epics

>reddit spacing

Literally every progression guild that's halfway through the content puts you on probation the second you join. But in all honesty, best to stay away from any raiding guild that does that to you because you know they can afford to never invite you unless you're full geared up and a half-decent class.
Just find some people who think you're personally an all right guy and you'll get a raid spot every time.

[reply]454732232
>no argument from a shitter that babyraged over being benched for being a nobody
loool

>gnome rogue
are you an idiot
dwarf for pvp
human for pve

Never expect any different from a nepotism fag

Well sure if you're going to play casually and only do 5 mans, then blue guns are fine. But don't try to pretend racials matter then.

t. loser with no friends

it was my first character just after launch, there wasn't any minmaxing pre-raid BIS autism guides yet lmao

>implying reading racials is "minmaxing" cringe lol

you need a guide just to think in your head that the human sword skill increase is good?

Escape artist is top tier for rogues too you know, as well as being a pain in the ass to target

>don't try to pretend racials matter
This but unironically.

t. this guy
You have to go back

454732692
what is sprint
what is vanish
what is prep
what is engie belt
cringe, not even giving you a you

What does probation even mean? That they won't invite you to raid unless they need a replacement? That you won't get any loot?

Nost was better than retail.

yes there are

crit gun from magmadar

owned bitch loool

>what is not having to waste a long cd to get out of any snare on you

its what happens to shitters with no gear and no reputation

we are goin home bros

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finally guis
home

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for me it's

1. Tirisfal
2. Durotar
3. Dun Morough
4. Elwynn
5. Teldrassil
6. Mulgore

>454733014
hahahaha holy hell you are new, thanks for the laugh dude, theres a reason rogues are one of the few classes that can destroy a good mage, sprint and vanish breaking cc are why, not giving you a you

It's shit.

I can't wait

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its decent for warr pvp
stay mad and bad

This raptor is very rude.

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But we're talking about hunters...

>3k server cap
dead on arrival

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(You)
lol feeling generous

>classic thread
>linking a BC rotation
>for arcane, to this day the most braindead of all specs
>who in vanilla was legit unplayable as a solo spec anyway
>when you could just point out warlocks in vanilla as walking shadow bolt macros

ok then get the bow from majordomos chest

noob thats a good bow

calling it now

>classic outperforms retail
>pathetic conniving worm known as ion rees
>slowly but surely changes made to the game's detriment
>ion now satisfied that hes ruined both retail and classic sits back and relaxes

best years of my life

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Why don't we have a druid tank rag?

because warriors can do it easier with less gear

Are they going to use the old models on important lore NPCs?

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You DENSE motherfucker.
Couldn't you have done even a basic bit of research?

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No dynamic spawns nigga, which means 2 fucking hour respawn timer on black lotus. And onixia buff can only be triggered once every 6 hours. Do you want ridiculous cartels forming around every possible resource?

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>druid tank

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>What does probation even mean?
>That they won't invite you to raid unless they need a replacement?
>That you won't get any loot?
All of the above.
It basically means the guild gets to act like Jews when they feel like it. It's the WoW equivalent of "the needs of the military."
You're basically joining a raiding guild because you're max level and are looking for some gear and experience, but the guild you're joining doesn't actually need you. You're required to be on when the guild raids and be permanently on standby for when an actual raider can't be bothered to log in on time. You should only ever do this if you were already planning on playing at those times and you don't mind raiding once every other month. If you do get chosen, be prepared to get outbid by the DKP whore of the guild and lose every opportunity to get any decent gear.

the fuck are you on about a good mage will always beat a rogue, also noone runs improved sprint unless you're in a pve spec
stoneform is fairly shit too bar removing blind, which any rogue can do by popping a jungle remedy, you're clearly a retail scrub

but the dude was saying he was gonna play dwarf hunter for the gun racial.

Is Shadowform ok?

>warrior
>rogue
>mage
>priest
everything else is useless

454733931
>no rogue uses imp sprint in pvp
fail bait

I'd guess new unique models when using new models, old models while using old models.

>lol i dont want other people in my mmo
Nost was amazing because of online. LH is even better.

paladins become the best healer in the later parts of vanilla.

>LH is even better
cringe

>t. blizzdrone

ching chong my insect brethren

So basically Sylvanas is going to be a nelf bitch in a long black dress when using old models and completely change to bimbo mode with new models?

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Is this any good for Tanking with a Druid? What should I change?

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i play on paervers without failkidney

>queued up

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i don't see why they don't offer a toggle for old graphics and new graphics

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This.
Many problems with the game are taking the good ideas of BC and taking them to their logical conclusions.
Except the big pink elephant in the room which is flying.

>What should I change?
Your class.

I can't wait to do the Agamand Mill quests again, fighting zombies uphill with all your new undead bros that are unable to find the family members is one of my first memories of WoW

think about it for a sec mr. autismo you never have to spec into improved sprint as a gnome because you have EA, thats the last (you) i'm giving you

Yes, great, any advice aside from that?
It's fine for 5 mans?

im not sure if i want to share the alliance with these people

DM. No one ever does the entirety of Dire Maul so its always going to be DM West, or DM E or some shit.

>people calling it VC when dire maul isn't even out

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Never played vanilla but I’ve been playing druid since BC, are they really unviable?

whos talking about gnomes lmfao
no one with a brain who understands pvp plays gnome rogue

druids are viable as resto.

loool only bevause of bres

You won't have to. Their first time playing will be their last.

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That would be my guess, I doubt they'd just give her a new Nelf model when it's probably just as easy to give her the bimbo model.

Looks fine.

Basically there is MAX 1 spot for a feral and 1 spot for a moonkin and multiple spots for restros in a raid.
Some raids wont even have a single feral/boomkin tho, depends on how minmaxing they are.

Their viability lies in combat resurrection, innervate for your priests and mark of the wild buff that gives a small amount of resistance (any amount of resistance is helpful). Other than that, you are a slightly worse priest spamming healing touch and rejuvenation.

>It's fine for 5 mans?
Yes but, user. You must not go down this road of suffering. Most don't come back from this.

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>complains about having to explore and not having a obvious marker
>"i played this zone a bunch of times"

im mad...can i call this person a filthy casual?

Damn, what makes them so bad for tanking?

We're going home, bros.

What exactly do you hope to accomplish with this build? From what I can tell you don't have a single instant attack and might as well play a paladin at that point.

For autistic minmax guilds? Only a few spaces are available for non healers.
For everyone else who will be grateful for anyone not retarded? You'll be fine.

On one hand I kinda want to play classic but on the other hand that involves giving money to Blizzard

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DM. Dire maul comes later on so it needs to have a new acronym.

daily reminder that you must have 60 after first week

Any leveling advice? Privatefriends must have that part down to a science by now.

I can tell you have already had as much fun with Classic as is possible for you.

No parry, no block, solely relying on high dodge, which means a lot of unreliable dmg reduction..
And the feral damage is really bad when you are trying to offtank something with your build. Restos are just so much more valuable sadly.

its my aragorn build

You have to gauge if you think it's worth the decision's good enough to reward with money.

If you are alone, try to group up with a leveling guild asap, especially when playing a class that needs good weapons to deal good damage..
Its always nice to find a quick dungeon group that you can finish ALL dungeon quests with. When your going with randoms, you wont get everything done most of the time.

They aren't actually bad, that's just a meme. The problem with them lies in the fact that they need to be pretty well geared to survive as tanks, while warriors come ready out of the box. It's not that you can't do it, it's that you shouldn't do it. Every person who claims it's possible always is BiS ready for the raid. It's just sillyness to try and attempt something like this. Save yourself the headache and go for the Blizzard™ approved tank.

Should I level enchanting on my druid to get Smoking Heart of the Mountain if I'm planning on dropping enchanting later?

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No.

definitely not on your first character. Enchanting is a royal pain in the ass to level at the best of times.

If you want to tank raids, yes. It's bis for a reason.

If you want to have fun, no.

>enchanter advertising in trade
>have some money to spend because im a pally so i treat my self
>sned message and go meet them
>shes a total cutie
>echants my thing
>she keeps typing smiley faces
>tells me to add her to my friends list
>i do
>week later
>see her advertising in trade again
>send her a message and we meet up
>she enchants my thing, tip her extra
>she tells me to add her to my friends list
>my heart sinks
>she didnt even remember me

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and the most mana effective heal.

So what if I just want it for flag carrying in WG, and if I plan on having an alt with tailoring/leatherworking?

What would you recommend as professions for Feral Druids, for leveling time at least, assuming Enchanting will be taken later or on another character?

>if I just want it for flag carrying in WG
even without it you are already a 10 times better flag carrier than any other class, sooooo its really just a cherry on top at that point. At least on alliance side - shamans are pretty strong as well.

The problem is that druids in feral forms didn't scale to weapon damage until Wrath meaning their threat and DPS were weak, druids for tanking had to mitigate crushing blows purely with their armor, and bear form offered no particular utility relative to warriors. This lead to a situation where druids had to track down obscure leather armor that had up-tuned armor bonuses (like malfurion's blessed bulwark) because you really have to push your 75% armor mitigation cap.

And yeah, no parry, no block. Plus a bunch of people back in classic / BC just sucked and gave druids a bad rep so every time you ran into a non-healing druid the perception was that they were an idiot who wanted to be a unique and beautiful little snowflake. Tons of people rolled druids back when they were the least popular class in the game for no reason other than that they were uncommon, which meant they were in demand.

Yes. Bonus armor trinkets are automatic BiS items for feral tanking. Up until Cataclysm armor trinkets were so critical to feral tanking that you'd legit have situations where something like the Mark of Tenacity in BC stayed best in slot from pre-raiding till Black Temple or so.

Keep in mind SHotM is bind on pickup so the enchanting alt can't give it to your druid

I would say that there are about 10 better trinkets for pvp than that thing.

Mining, Skinning or Herbalism

Leatherworking doesn't give you anything really impressive for leveling, most of your gear leveling gear will either be of the monkey stuff or quest/dungeon loot. Gathering professions just give you the best money which you can then bank for whatever you actually want if its enchanting/specialist leatherworking or an epic mount, respeccing, filling out your spellbook whatever.

I got no jewish in my blood so I never really went hard on generating gold, but I guess gathering skills are the best to start with.
Herbalism+Skinning just to make as much money as possible. Maybe Herbalism+Alche is better tho, I dont really know.

Flag carriers should be limited to 100% speed in WSG don't @ me

3k? lol wtf

Ah didn't know that.
What would you recommend doing, assuming the Druid is my first character?
Have a different profession while leveling to 60 and changing it later, (is that possible in Classic?) or just going Enchanting from the start? Assuming I do want a Smoking Heart of the Mountain for my Druid.

If you want the item for your druid, your best bet is levelling a character that can make a boatload of money, then supplementing your druid's income

>dead gnome in orgrimmar bank postbox
>"ugotmail"

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You can.
I'd advise mining and herbalism, since skinning will be the most taken profession, and hence have prices driven into the dirt.

Herbalism for leveling and money sounds nice then, swaping to Enchanting later.
Is Herbalism + Alchemy good? It sounds nicer to make pots than to only gather with Herbalism + Mining/skinning.
Though my understanding is that as a Feral Druid you can't drink the potions while in the Bear/Car form?
Sorry for my ignorance, I really appreciate the answers.

>Have a different profession while leveling to 60 and changing it later, (is that possible in Classic?) or just going Enchanting from the start? Assuming I do want a Smoking Heart of the Mountain for my Druid.
Its best to change afterwards desu. You don't want to piddle around in the early levels trying to level up your enchanting because it has some pretty hefty resource requirements.
Its less hassle to just buy dust and essence off the auction house than actually level a profession solo self found.
Or whatever, play whatever you think will be fun.

Alchemy can be an early goldmine if you farm for Swiftthistle and speed potions early on and hoard them, since every level bracket has a use for them.
The problem is that the recipe can be expensive, and otherwise it's mainly profitable at higher levels, while leveling it's just a useful utility to have.

How comparable is Mark of Tyranny to a Smoking Heart of the Mountain for a Feral Druid?
It's a quest reward so way easier to get, no?

I believe that's TBC only.

Paladins for healing, are they viable in vanilla? Should I torture myself leveling one?

They are arguably better than priests

Ah damn didn't know, that's why Smoking Heart of the Mountain is BiS then...

Flying mounts, LFG and numbers bloat.

Flying mounts and LFG killed the aspect of interacting with other humans and turned it into a garbage tab-targetting RPG that you have to pay monthly fee for and numbers bloat just made the game stupid.

they make for top tier healsluts yes

Great. Are they too different from what Holy is now? I am relatively new to WoW (started playing for the first time by the end of Legion). What should I focus at?

>no wall jumping
>/Sit crits no longer process reck and other abilities like the Warriors spells
>Actually gated releases

We're going home bros

You are a bless bot, otherwise you just spam flash of light.

Don't level Holy, only ret

i'm with ya buddy. i love the eversong music and environment. so fucking comfy.

ghostlands was the GOAT at the time, now all the retailbabbies complain about it because the blood elve zones didn't get the cata "literally play the game for you" overhauls

>This
Also try and find a good warrior to play with you'll be a powerhouse when it comes to both pve + pvp

You get Mark of Tyranny from UBRS.

Awesome. Thanks for the info guys. Gonna keep that in mind .

Nah, Mark of Tyranny comes from the UBRS quest to kill Drakkisath.
You'd use both of them at the same time. Unless I'm forgetting something those are the only two trinkets in the game in Classic that give bonus armor. Bonus armor is hands down the most important stat bonus a druid tank can get in classic.

You can equip both Trinkets at the same time? So it's not a replacement, but used with Smoking Heart of the Mountain?

good luck m8!
you'll have people begging you for raiding + premades as a good holy pally

Meh... honestly I will play it more than anything out of curiosity for how Vanilla was in the past and that I missed for being poor in a third world country by that time.
I plan mostly to chill around and take my time doing things instead of rushing to the endgame. I mean... no point doing so at all since experienced players already know what to do and not and a newfag like me will never reach their level anyway.

This. I love Blood Elves.

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Rather than rep grinding, just level a human to 20, buy a horse, and it will be added to your collections and you can use it on any characters. Also, kys, alliance scum.

uh

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we r goin home bros

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Is T 0.5 ever even worth the upgrading?

rogues 4 set is incredible

of all the things blizzard did wrong perma JUSTING azeroth was the worst. it's been 6 years or something since cata and the world is still on fire. the whole sundering of azeroth by deathwing was a fun gimmick until the expansion ended, but then it just became annoying with all those original zones being eternally turbo fucked

this has to be b8

>all those duels from 2005

Damn, those were the times.
Literally 1x1's the entire US Warsong best PvP players.

Anyone else played on US Warsong back then? Anyone else remembers Avatar from Corp Hur? We used to raid outdoors together sometimes with their ventrilo server.

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I agree, if you started as a panda in mists you went

>Pandas(THE SHA ARE INVADING! GARROSH IS EVIL!)
>Azeroth(cataclysm - DEATHWING IS INVADING! Garrosh isn't such a bad guy)
>Outlands(ILLIDAN IS INVADING!)
>Northrend(LICH KING!!!)
>Cata areas(DEATHWING AGAIN!)
>pandaria(SHA AGAIN! GARROSH IS EVIL!)

If that's not confusing as a new player I don't know what is.

Now with the level scaling it's not AS bad, but still all fucked up. The sad part is is that azeroth in it's current state has existed far longer than it did in it's original state

Nothing stops you from using both trinkets at the same time, yes. I presume they're both BiS for Feral but I never played a drood.

>I will never take a walk through the Eversong Woods with my Blood Elf wife
Just end it, please...

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some specs were literally useless, that is about it. if only we could have the MoP-tier functionality of classes but without all the garbage features that came with the expansions. i think all players already being set up with a decent amount of gold, mounts, alts, and most of their talents is what spoiled expansion territory.

>azeroth in it's current state has existed far longer than it did in it's original state
worst timeline

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I'm plan on rolling a paladin and I've looked into guides and videos about the paladin leveling process. Almost every guide is based on the reckoning /sit macro, and that won't work on retail classic, so those builds are invalid. I've also read from different sources that paladin leveling greatly slows down around level 45. Would that be a good time to respec and go a form of consecrate/protection for aoe grinding and also dungeon tanking?

ayy lmao

just go full ret
pala tanking in vanilla is a meme, you'd be better off healing or dps'ing

ESO is actually pretty open. Most zones are so massive that a short loading screen between zone borders is excusable.

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>don't dead open inside

Arena was so shit that even the devs said it was trash in one of the special edition features
LFD was a bad idea in concept and should have never come to be
Proffs were made irrelevant
LFR was a mistake on par with not invading Russia after WW2
Making every class play nearly the same with the same abilities makes every class shit to play
Catering to "I HAVE A JOB" McCucks made the game as deep as a puddle
Blood elves should have never been introduced, turned the beast race faction into a supermodel convention completely destroying any semblance of identity it had
DHKs ruined the idea of city raids for anyone that took PvP seriously
Ilvl should have never been the goto check for player skill and to this day is terrible for discerning a good player from a bad player
Titanforging is shit, I got a heroic cape in LFR by following the tank and jerking off
"Elitism" is used as a catch all for anyone that thinks putting in effort isn't a criminal offense
Gear is all the same and not interesting in the slightest as purples drop from the fucking sky just for remembering that breathing is a thing people need to do
Flying ruined the world size and destroyed the concept of exploration
Crafting is a total meme now, remember sulfuras?
You can buy gold in game, ruining the whole idea of having to work for what you want.

I can go on all day, in short, they fucked the idea of earning what you got in exchange for throwing stuff at players for paying $15

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ESO on PC was seamless when I played and i've got a potato laptop

>you think but you you do don't
what did he mean by this?

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youtu.be/IRJiuzr78D4?t=114

>tfw no classic wow gf

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>you think, but you...you don't

he was talking about how their average player is a brainless retard, obviously

change for the sake of change, thank you fucking chaos god worshipping souless latte sipping big city game ((devs))

fucking based

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sadly wagies have much more pull over us hobbyists.

wagies are:
easy to placate
easy to communicate with
easy to mislead and deceive
easy to nickel and dime

hobbyists are:
difficult to placate since they know the game like the back of their hand
difficult to communicate with tying into point 1. you'll have a much more difficult time trying to bullshit a hobbyist than a wagey
difficult to nickel and dime. they, for the most part, do not care for vanity mounts and whatever other offerings blizzard has in their cash shop

wagies demand style whereas hobbyists demand substance. style is incredibly quick cheap and easy to create. substance is not.

>tfw gf is gonna give it a shot but probably drop it
>tfw that's exactly what she did when I rolled on nost
I just want the person I care about most to care about the most important thing in my life

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W-We'll make it through user....Be strong!

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The simple fact that she's willing to care enough to give it a shot with you should show that she does care about the most important thing, which to her is you user. Be appreciative that she's doing what she is instead of always wishing for more

Dude in Vanilla you can not TANK with a druid. If you want to tank roll a warrior. I am NOT trolling

i dunno about you but i'd at least want some space. spending time together is great and all but i gotta have time to shoot shit with the lads

wrong

What

said.

true, I just like spending time with her and splitting it between classic (which is a massive time sink) and her (which admittedly has a much better return) is kinda shitty.

I can get that, might be better to have some time to myself and my friends

Nope, some low level dungeons you could tank with druid. then again the only real tanks are warriors in vanilla mr Zoomer

still wrong

BfA story is again a case of good side stories marred by terrible idiot plot main story.
But from everything so far it seems they're ending the Red vs Blue faction conflict for good.
youtube.com/watch?v=2wREeahXw1Q

Is the faction conflict being removed the final nail, or would it be a good thing that opens up story opportunities without the writers having to do the "put a Hitler in charge of the Horde again to keep it going because we don't know how else to write conflict"?

Tell me mr Zoomer why am I wrong

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youtube.com/watch?v=alH2QXm8MM8

Everything.
Its a fucking 3 button mmo, where fat lonely Yea Forumsirgins complain about how good vanilla is. best part is, that everyone is gonna play it for a week until there gonna stop completely, because its dog shit

Why are people excited for classic? Do you want to relive having the game destroyed again?

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human warlock main here, explain yourself

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>why people like thing? answer me question for 100,000th time!

He probably got kited, I'd be mad too if I played a rogue

If an enemy is on top of you and you use war stomp, it will give you enough time to get back to your minimum shooting range so you can resume kiting.

>everyone is gonna play it for a week until there gonna stop completely
If this happens, it will be WoW's Waterloo for real, and the final nail in the franchise's coffin.
I think that a possible failure/underperfomance of Classic will be the wake up call for the few truly addicted fans left. They will have no where to go after that, except to shitty private servers.

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published on 22 okt. 2018. Sure friend

>killed Factions thanks to Belfs and shamans on ally
>killed Wpvp thanks toflying
>killed pvp thanks to arena and resilience
>killed the world flying
>killed gearing

Bro

Was that really said in 2013? Christ, why am I still alive.

not an argument

I desperately want to understand the mentality behind WoW addicts.

GNOMES
>males
are usually bros who like to play joke races or who like small races
>Females
are always Try hard nofun autists the kind that cry about fun events stopping them from using the AH
HUMANS
>males
are boring
>females
are on par with Female gnomes are the Try hard no fun autists
Dwarfs
>Males
Best bros who will always help or Huge assholes no in between
>Females,
Moms who are on the allys
Nelfs
>Male
xXLEGOLASSXx
>female
Males who are gay and want to be fucked in the ass a billion times
Goats
>Males
Like Dwarfs are always the best of bros or the hugest assholes
>Females
See Female Nelfs

>I desperately want to understand why people like thing I don't like!

Hahaha sure friend. But yeah I'll troll along. Sure friend Druid tanks are a thing your build looks fine!

Me and my friends are going to level together doing quests and shit. Should we level
>Mage lock shaman
or
>Mage lock priest

>eq
>raid instance

Goats?

The expansion after you started

still not an argument. no need to start pretending to be retarded after you get proven wrong.

besides, it's an anonymous image board. you don't need to try to save face. you can simply stop replying and no one will know. if you feel ashamed, you can also just close the tab.

Thicc Blue Space Goats, aka Draenei

i hope so badly for it to fail. Blizzard fucked it up with the last 4 addons.

There have only been 3 expansions after Mists though.

Tell the warlock of your group to swap roles with the mage and tell the indecisive friend to roll warrior. Make the mage be the priest and have everyone play on Alliance. Make sure the new mage is a human and have the warrior roll night elf. Make sure that you pick a class separate from these three as to not cause confusion. Tell the priest to roll dwarf for the free Fear Ward and have the night elf reroll druid for the heals and endgame innervate (so that the priest doesn't go OoM). Have the mage go skinning/herbalism so that the level 40 mount grind isn't too hard and make him have a human warlock alt for mining/enchanting. Make sure the priest goes shadow to buff the warlock's damage and have the warlock make a holy priest alt for endgame healing. Group up with the first paladin you see and make sure he's going prot for the AoE dungeon clearing. If you can't find a pally then make the warrior go this instead until level 40. Make a warrior alt in case the paladin doesn't have a level 40 alt to switch to. Remember to spec wand for the early game damage.

The horde can kill the three dwarf npcs in uldaman for additional loot: is there any sort of equivalent to this for alliance in any dungeon?

Maiev suddenly being in Alliance kinda sucks. I was hoping that she would be the mommy of DHs now that Illidan is gone...

Prefer Paladin and Shaman tanks even more though.

You fucking retarded mate? Maiev has always been about fulfilling duty to her people. That's a hot take of pure shit you've got right there.

Is this b8?

They'll steal your bike when you're not looking.

Then why was she neutral in Legion uh?

>have the warrior roll night elf
>have the night elf reroll druid
What gave you that idea?

EVERYONE was neutral in Legion except for Worgen and Forsaken.

khadgar is still neutral

Thank you?

>FUCK NIGHT ELVES WHO NAME THEMSELVES AS SOME VARIATION OF LEGOLAS

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>following the story in wow.
People level so quickly i doubt they even comprehend what a trash story the game is now. Modern wow at its core is a vehicle to run raids and sell people on the idea of a dress up simulator with lore that is almost quite literally in some cases self insert writing.

The wait's killing me bros. I know probably only a few more months, but I keep having the hankering to roll on a private server. Shame all the Vanilla servers are kinda garbage in some way or another.

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Only serious advice here, fren

He should be alliance according to your logic.
Also Maiev "fulfilling duty to her people" isn't that accurate : She never respected Tyrande, wanted to kill Malfurion, her brother and the HighBornes.
I know the later is stupid lore but still it's the reason why the wardens were gone from Kalimdor.

2H Enh Fem Tauren Shaman is kino

Was thinking of rolling a human Paladin, but the more I think about it, a Dwarf Paladin also sounds really nice.

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Prot spec does way more damage than full ret
The proper way to level Paladin is ret until PoJ/Command then respec to Reckoning and start going ret again, healing dungeons all the while

According to your logic regarding my logic, EVERYONE who was neutral in Legion should be Alliance now.

Orc Warrior or Orc Warlock

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I still find it weird that Taurens got guns while Orcs and Trolls were given bows.

both are fine choices.

Is there a canon explanation why Khadgar isn't and/or what is he doing right now?

What one first tho

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which do you hate more, being forced to tank things you dont want to or farming soul shards?

Humans should get bonus weapon skill with swords (instead of sword and mace)
Dwarves should get bonus weapon skill with axes
Elves should get bonus weapon skill with maces
Gnomes should get bonus weapon skill with daggers
Orc should get bonus weapon skill with axes (as it is now)
Forsaken should get bonus weapon skill with swords
Tauren should get bonus weapon skill with maces
Trolls should get bonus weapon skill with daggers

Corrupted by Old Gods, sabotaging Azeroth from the shadows.

I'll be in a group with my friends so i have a tank friend already but in raids in down to tank if needed no big deal for me.
Farming has always been fun to me so that's why i hated new blizzard WoW with boring forever grind to get nothing is no fun.

I just don't know what to do first.

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Ion get out of here with your even stevens normalization bullshit.

Based off old lore, it makes more sense for night elves to have axes and dwarves to have maces.

Agreed. Orcs at the very least should have guns thanks to their interactions with the goblins. Trolls can keep their bows.

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you could've worked on the wotlk team. Homogenize everything!

take your homophobia and bigotry elsewhere

man i never realized how awful those new models are

well then I'd say that warlocks are pretty good at leveling solo so i'd level the lock second and take advantage of being able to do the harder quests in a group with your warrior

>MMO
>long list of everything which kills world and need of any and all interactions in it.

>RPG
>long list of everything which kills RPG, itemization and gear choices.

Nice MMORPG game you got there, blizztards

Activision greed with passionate Blizzard slowly being replaced with Yes men.

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hmm you right

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They didn't make it like everquest/ultima online, wasn't even a first person MMO (lmao no immersion)

>Buff the hybrid classes

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Orc warlocks are great. I know Orc and Human have the best stats for warriors in PvP but I always preferred the other races for warrior.

2.3.1

Agree, I'm gonna play a proud enhancement shammy and being a nighfall bitch is boring.

No you're my utility bitch
You're not to be the best dps
All raids need not only best of everything but a jack of all trades in it.
We need every class in a raid but not as dps gods

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this dude would not play anything but a warrior and you know it.

i dont even remember that patch

>Orc warlocks are great
until you get feared by an alliance warlock prior to getting your pvp trinket. it's suffering on a scale you can't even imagine. and I know there's some term for this bias, but it felt that hardiness rarely prevented a stun - I'd love an addon that tracks resisted stuns vs non-resisted to verify this. I prefer having an active racial over a passive racial.

Don't worry user, I got the joke
It wasn't that good

>enchancement Shamans never became a tanking spec

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No he breaks stereotypes, he would be the priest.

Because it wasn’t. You world PvP fucking retards are the worst

The math points to it being a good proc rate and not a rare thing at all.
It will feel like shit when it doesn't proc but the rate at when it does it actually higher than one might think.
But with all Proc related buffs you can't control it and RNG can give you a huge dicking.
But some times it god modes your ass and you resist 2 stuns while laughing at the n00b that tried to walk up to you in the first place.

>later WoW related fire to elemental, wind to enhancement, and water to restoration
>no earth to some tank spec whose gimmick was buffing the rest of the party or some other way to differentiate them
I'm still upset to this day.

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>added fucking BE to Horde
>retconned draenei
>ruined a bunch of established wc3 characters with lolcorruption for the sake of providing loot pinyatas
It was a failure on many levels user

Gl looking for idiots who allow meme specs into raids.

It's too funny to see the people trying to get into the vanilla train, it's not hard to realize 90% never played retail vanilla

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There's nothing memey about being a nightfall bitch. It's what I'll have to do when I get to raiding without straight up being a diva special snowflake. I guess I'll unwind in pvp, rolling dice for them big dick windfury procs.

People allready belief here that druids can tank so Hybrids are fine. Only true hybrid class in Vanilla is warrior though

It also was the beginning of welfare epics, something people attribute mostly to WotLK.

who cares how young someone is to join classic
you were young when you played it and now look back on it with joy
why people need to gate keep classic because you hate a generation behind you is actual boomer tier trash

mostly sick of the privatefags but you're right, if they enjoy it let them, I'm 25

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People attribute it to wrath because it was Wrath's faceroll heroics that made them welfare rather than a supplement to raiding.
In TBC, you'd need a heavily decked out group before you could brute force heroics to the point of farming badges, and by that point you probably didn't need the badge loot anyway.

>why yes, I do believe that patch 1.13 is the best way to continue WoW Classic's development

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There always has to be shitters who can be amazed at your raid gear when you stand in stormwind flexing.

One day even a small majority will become salty assholes like us at others fucking up vidya
and being stuck on Yea Forums as well

That 1 huntard which you bring into naxx does better job at it with windclip spam.

All heroics had saves that couldn't be reset as well, as opposed to wotlks LFG farm.

Can confirm the thing about female gnomes. I was happy leveling my warlock until max level and couldn't join groups anymore because tanks/healers were non-existant for some reason. She was a tailor and ended making first 10k gold by selling bags, then much more by outjewing people in the AH. At this point I hated her and everyone because I couldn't run dungeons at all.

TBC badge gear was FAR from welfare, it was always below tier and took 30-40 badges per piece which would take you a solid few weeks to get

Not like wrath where you just AoE down your daily heroic for 20 badges, stop attributing welfare epics to TBC

damn, looks like *that*?!
give me a lineup, I want to put a name to a neckbeard

>mostly sick of the privatefags
I don't blame you, people on PSs are complete faggots I would know, I've been on them for years

>The only race/gender combos with good dad jokes are Nelf Males and Human Males
>Both are the premiere most memed on combos
I just like dad jokes is that so wrong. Human females are also the only females with good jokes that don't have slutty dances.

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>and the PARROT says...
Jesus Christ, Raimi

bros how can I make $1200 for a new pc and two monitors before retail comes out? most jobs in my area only pay enough to afford gas to go to work

>why yes, I am going to ring the gong early and ruin the scarab lord for most wagie tryhards on my server

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whats funny is if they made it a tank spec, they prob wouldnt need to have put pally on horde. Making totems better would have also solved this issue.

Arenas and pandering to people who don't like playing MMOs.

This is all the no change people thinking Nu-blizzard actually can pull off game design. As much as BC changed things, think of how much WORSE it could be under the new management.

I'd rather take a chance with getting something good rather than having guaranteed shit with BC.

dwarf pallies are kino, also stoneform is really nice too!
I don't think you'd regret it user

blizz went full corporate and ended up just like ea

started mid 2005 you know it can't be redone

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>long tail

i hope you don't do this anons

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>Come play Ret Paladin with us bro

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Sorry, but I'm rolling an enhancement shaman.

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Sorry bros, as much as I would love to take up the offer, I find Female Gnome Warrior with pigtails to be the superior choice.

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You're aware that WoW back then repulsed women (games in general did because they were more designed for geeks), and it's the current, shitty state of MMORPGs that appeal to women? What made you think that she would be in?

Three paladins?
At this time in classic, At this time in the day, in this part of the dungeon, specialised entirely in retribution?!

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Alliance has more quests for gomerengan

What shithole do you live in?

God, I wish WoW never happened, and we got Warcraft 4 instead. Maybe then we'd see more diversity in MMOs, and the RTS genre would be better

longer cd on taunt, weaker aoe threat, less armor than a prot warr, 3 target aoe, no defensive cooldown
>muh arguments