Did the FPS genre truly evolved with Halo?
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the only thing i like is that it makes quake fags seethe 18 years later
Shield/Health regen knee-capped FPSes for over a decade.
Well... they did added vehicle driving to an FPS in a fun way..
Maybe if you were a consolefag.
I remember by that time that games had a grenade launcher... but in Halo you can throw them without having to change weapons... im not that old to know games that did this before that
No, it evolved with half life
>"combat evolved"
>can only carry 2 weapons at a time
>moves far slower than any fps protagonist in existence at the time, even a fucking female librarian (the protagonist of the Wheel of Time) moves much faster
>relies heavily on auto-aim auto-aim
At the very least, it was popular enough that it definitely influenced the development of a bunch of FPS games. "Halo-killer" was an actual term back then.
Combat evolved was just a tittle, but carrying only two weapons and two grenade types was f*n, other than that you Werner constantly looking for weapons in the ground and the slow walking helped with jumping using an inferior control, (the auto-aim has no defence other than cassualized the genre at infinity
truly
>Combat evolved was just a tittle, but carrying only two weapons and two grenade types was f*n
>vastly less weapons and tactical options at your disposal than fps prior to that
>"fun"
It did a lot of things not just right, but better than PC counterparts. For how much shit Counterstrike players talked on it and brought
up recoil patterns, the gunplay in Halo was like incomprehensible eldritch sorcery to them. Each weapon in the game had tricks you
needed to learn to use them to their maximum potential that weren't as obvious as point and click recoil memorization.
It was so difficult to master something like the plasma pistol's max rate of fire it blew peoples minds at tournaments when they saw it in
action. No game to my knowledge has since had individual learning curbs so steep for weapons.
>tactical options
>being able to choose the best weapon for the job every time
Pick one.
It only evolved the genre on consoles by popularizing certain conventions like regenning shields. If you were a PC gamer Halo was a dumbed down step backwards.
>can only carry 2 weapons at a time
>Actually have to think about weapon combinations because each one has its own utilities that are useful in combination with another weapon
>This is apparently more "brainlet" than "HURRR GIVE YOU ALL WEAPONS AND YOU SHOOT"
Doom is the most overrated shit
yes, but not in a good way
2 weapons means you have to use your brain in choosing which loadout you want to have
Quake is one of my favourite games, and so is Halo. They both go for different things, and both achieve it for the most part.
>Pick Assualt rifle/Shotgun
>blast trough the whole game
wow that was easy
You don't even get the shotgun until half way through the game and the assault rile isn't nearly as useful as the pistol.
Yes. Whether you enjoy the changes or not, Halo did manage to adapt shooters to the console market - by making the movement speed slow as balls, adding regenerating shields to get around the fact that you can't meaningfully dodge incoming attacks, having a long ttk, having a two weapon limit, and having a heavy vehicle emphasis (vehicles being one of the few things that controls well on a console controller).
Halo was the template for a decade of shooters to follow.
Cool. You found your preferred playstyle. There are many other combinations that make you play completely differently and are arguably a lot more useful. This two weapon restriction is seen as bad because people seem to think "less=bad" in games for some reason when it actually enhances the experience. Each weapon in Halo has its own purpose and it is up to the player to decide how they want to play.
>the fact that you can't meaningfully dodge incoming attacks
That's wrong though. Halo is one of the few games with projectile based weapons instead of hitscans post 1998.
you get my point
you find the combination wich does the most damage/most ammo available and stick with that the whole game
Remember the time you'd see this being posted only as an obvious joke around here?
Fuck. I miss those days.
>this is what halofags actually think
DOOM did projectile based weapons and attacks in 1991 and they dont move at a snails pace
not him but
>post 1998
can you read?
It wasn't halo CE that did it. Many games such as SS1 already Had shields. The problem was how deeply from that cup was drank in Halo2. Halo2 is when lunge, aim assist, bullet magnetism, granny ttk, no fall damage was pushed harder than ever before. Its why halo2sucks.com became a thing. Remember it is the halo 2-3 unwashed that caused this.
Fucking Black Ops 4 uses projectiles pleb
It was the first console fps I played that didn't have garbage hit detection and animations. You could throw a grenade and everyone in the area of effect would get obliterated and thrown back. The hit detection was on point and you actually felt connected to the game. I still remember playing shit games like medal of honor with its trash hit detection and it was a fucking chore.
It didn't evolve, but it did peak. It has been downhill since then. I don't know if it's Halo's fault or not, but the fact remains.
Nice argument, bro. Keep coping harder.
Plasma weapons don't do as much damage against flood and hunters, bullet weapons don't do as much damage against elite and jackal shields. Switching weapons is encouraged by enemy weaknesses. You don't even start with a rifle and pistol on each level.
Not only did you get Doom's release date off by two years, you completely ignored the fact that I said 1998. Way to be a poser, also Doom has hitscanning enemies but their range is limited enough that its not annoying as fuck.
>Max Payne
>Timesplitters
>Ratchet and Clank
>FEAR
>even the shitty Matrix games
its not a achievement no matter how you spin it
kys falseflagger
Let's compare...
got better:
>vehicles, huge maybe
>now has online
got worse:
>level design
>music
>plot
>characters
>weapon variety
>secondary functions
>co-op modes
>multiplayer modes
I'd say it definetly got way worse.
>analog stick to accelerate/reverse
fuck no this control scheme sucks
>1991
I never said it was an achievement dumbass, I just said it was possible to dodge attacks and not common after Half Life popularized human enemies.
I don't think you were ever actually a PC gaymer.
You're either so old you're senile or so young you were drooling on the controller rather than playing.
Every weapon in the game was viable in almost every situation. If it felt like it wasn't, you were shit at it. The point of the two weapon limit was
to play into this.
Halo was the first console FPS done right, basically invalidated PC gaming overnight
No, it devolved like no other and eventually killed the whole genre altogether.
Unironically yes
Sorry, that was Counterstrike. Those fucking ritalin muppets are why we can't have nice combined arms FPS games for both PC and console.
Doom plays excellently on consoles and controllers though.
I dunno. Halo 1 and Timesplitters proved you could make an FPS control well with a console after all the awful previous attempts.
But you'll notice all FPSs still follow the COD model of gameplay to this day.
Was an issue solved by thumbsticks, not by any specific titles.
Halo was the first truly normie game.
>perfect dark, an fps where you can't even jump, which greatly limits level design and basic interactivity
>good
No, it regressed.
evolved into killing crabs instead of enemy soldiers so nobody's mom got upset, sure
>halo is a better game because you can jump
>leaving out the fact that perfect dark runs at sub-20 fps and has atrocious controls, even by console fps standards
The absolute state of Nintendo fans
>complaining about hardware limitations instead of talking about the game's design
if your thumbs have the agility of a snail then sure it does suck
Other than vehicles, everything halo was famous for Trespasser did first.
>>halo is a better game because you can jump
No, but holding up Perfect Dark as some pinnacle of FPS is incredibly dumb considering how awful its gunplay and movement feels. The lack of a basic feature like jumping is a part of that, yes.
Furthermore, most of the bullet points consist of superficial aspects like plot and story (which are terrible in Perfect Dark, so why would anyone even hold these up as positives?)
>how awful its gunplay and movement feels.
you're wrong, movement and gunplay are great in Perfect Dark
>Furthermore, most of the bullet points consist of superficial aspects like plot and story (which are terrible in Perfect Dark, so why would anyone even hold these up as positives?)
what? they're great, maybe you didn't understand what was going on?
i wouldn't have benefited from jumping in perfect dark but from having even one gun that sounded like a gun instead of a printer would have been good. At least you can shoot humans with wibbly heads on headshots cos i mean, who cares if a gun makes a good sound when you're shooting a fucking crab bug
>Every weapon in the game was viable in almost every situation. If it felt like it wasn't, you were shit at it.
You know you are kinda proving exactly how bad Halo design was. Was that your intention? Actually illustrate how shit the game is?
What is wrong with aliens? Halo has some pretty interesting dynamics during combat between the different types of enemies you fight.
What halofags think is happening
>yes, given the enemy composition in the next room I must logically stick with the needler, giving up the shotgun to acheive the best results
What is actually happening
>Oh hey a new gun, but I guess I'll hold on to the one I have for one more room before the game forces me to get rid of it because there is no more ammo for it
The only thing the two weapon system does is give level designers on out from actually considering balancing ammo and weapons because they can make sure you always have exactly what they want you to have.
All of this is completely moot because the FPS genre in its entirely is stuffed with cameras on wheels with guns gameplay that sucks so bad
anything that deviates from the convention is good. Even if that deviation is due to having to play with the weird sextoy looking thing that
was the N64 controller.
Hundreds and hundreds of FPS games across the PC/console spectrum and the only ones people still talk about today are just a handful of oddballs like Perfect Dark.
Nope, everyone followed suit with Halo's boring play it safe design and structure following the success of CoD4 - where that same design took off.
>All of this is completely moot because the FPS genre in its entirely is stuffed with cameras on wheels with guns gameplay that sucks so bad
anything that deviates from the convention is good. Even if that deviation is due to having to play with the weird sextoy looking thing that was the N64 controller.
>Hundreds and hundreds of FPS games across the PC/console spectrum and the only ones people still talk about today are just a handful of oddballs like Perfect Dark.
>its different because it has shittier controls than other FPS
>this is somehow worthy of praise
theres a reason every decent dropped it for Bumper acceleration/reverse
its simply a better control scheme
>spectrum and the only ones people still talk about today are just a handful of oddballs like Perfect Dark.
The only time anyone talks about games like that is when they're nostalgiafagging about the N64
are you serious? i just can't even understand where you are coming from. interesting dynamics? if someone made a really fun game where you slice fruit with a gun - that's cool. great. but it's not going to satisfy as a shooter is it?
t. hasn't played on solo legendary
I guess if you feel having to learn to use weapons correctly on an individual basis instead of having a climbing arsenal of obvious direct
upgrades and highly situational problem solvers is bad game design.
COD:
>Sprinting
>Very fast time to kill
>Loadout customization
Halo:
>Slow movement
>Slow time to kill
>Same loadout
>Weapon pickups/powerups scattered throughout map
How is Halo and Cod the same design and structure?
Oh really, are you often given the choice between over half the arsenal before going after a new challenge, so you actually have to make a choice?
The old style isn't about situational problem solvers, it's about balances your rocket launcher and shotgun ammo. Yeah you'll find moments where the chaingun is better than the shotgun for somethings. But most choices come down to deciding if you want to use your more precious forms of ammo.
Sprinting doesn't make an FPS faster, it makes it slower, since you can't shoot while sprinting.
>muh humans
There are aspects to the enemies that are dynamic such as Grunts sticking to Elites and once you kill the Elites they run off scared. It may not sound like much but to me its what makes Halo a lot more interesting then a lot of other shooters where enemies either just walk towards you and shoot projectiles or sit behind cover. They have a bit more life to them I guess is what I'm trying to say.
Yes
That's why Halo 5's sprint is an illusion.
i can smash bugs and fruit with ultra realistic graphics in my garden for free
Aliens aren't fruit or bugs so i don't know why you bring up this completely retarded point all the time.
they're fucking robot bugs mate. they're insects or some shit. who cares
Shotgun was easily ducked even at close range. It was a mostly shit weapon in every situation in multiplayer unless you were up against literal retards.
The assault rifle bordered on being completely useless as well and was 100% useless outside of insanely close quarters against shotgun users.
what are they then?
Nobody had JUST an N64 back then. It was a meme console mostly for the novelty of when you had friends over. The nostalgia=/=nintendo faggotry.
It was the fact you could play split screen with people close enough to physically strangle them.
Epic shitpost, bro!!!!!
It's called "Combat Evolved", not "FPS Evolved".
Elites are basically digitigrade humans with weird mouths.
>somebody out there actually believes this
halo invented FPS so yeah i guess
the amount of shit and good ideas they put in perfect dark still baffles me to this day, they even had a control scheme for 2 sticks by using 2 controllers, sure it was not perfect but they were already 10 years into the future with their ideas
this is pathetic.
>Bro check this out you can shoot this thing it almost looks like you're shooting a dude.
>woah. fuckin imagine how cool it would be if you could do that
Wrong. The shotgun decided games used correctly on certain maps. Wrong again on the assault rifle, which became the second
strongest mid-range weapon after the pistol if you took the time to learn the trigger tap timing without fucking it up oversampling.
>they even had a control scheme for 2 sticks by using 2 controllers, sure it was not perfect but they were already 10 years into the future with their ideas
>10 years in the future
>other fps that came out that same year (alien: resurrection) already had dual stick controls natively, without such shitty gimmciks as perfect dark
>10 years into the future
fampay, we're 20 years ahead and we still don't have a FPS with the content PD provided
Shield/health regen was in Crisis dumb fuck
Your parents must have had a tough time.
>I guess if you feel having to learn to use weapons correctly on an individual basis instead of having a climbing arsenal of obvious direct
I would ask you if you ever actually played a shooter that is NOT Halo in your life, but I know I would not learn anything new from your reply.
If you don't see what is the problem with your weapons being utterly interchangeabe, ESPECIALLY when just moments prior you tried to make an argument how having weapon collection limit makes the game "more tactical", there isnt much I can do for you.
This is some good bait.
Can you imagine actually believing this? Based halo retards you should try out serious sam sometime.
user, i don't know if you know this but the n64 pad did not have dual sticks, so they had to overcome hardware limitations with creativity, and that was only one of the features of the game, alien resurrection didnt even come close to the amount of content and customization that perfect dark had
Goldeneye had the two controller control scheme in 1997.
Looks like pappers woke the zoomers up cutting the grass.
Yes, because learning to use the assault rifle effectively in a situation its widely regarded as useless in is a very rewarding experience. I
consider this good game design. I wasn't the one claiming it was 'tactical' though. What I meant in regards to the two weapon limit is it
plays into it by forcing you to improvise in situations taking you out of the comfort zone of always having the easiest to use weapon for
every situation.
It's a game designed around the fact that aiming in a console shooter is harder than with a PC. There's a greater reliance on grenades, melee, explosive weapons (scorpion, rocket launcher), homing weapons (needler) and instantly knocking out shields (plasma pistol). These all reduce the amount of precise aiming a player needs to do to be effective. Halo improved the design of console shooters and made PC shooters worse.
>content and customization
What does that even mean?
By that logic an FPS with a 100 different but poorly implemeneted and balanced weapons is better than an FPS with 10 distinctive and well-balanced weapons. I don't subscribe to this 'logic' at all.
>always having the easiest to use weapon for
>every situation.
What happens when you use up all your ammo for your favorite gun in an older shooter?
I've played serious sam. It is fun. Not as memorable or fun as Halo on Legendary though. And also nice non-argument like the other guy. I can really see how you are a patrician fps gamer.
Maybe if you told us what games you played instead, then we would know you're not just full of snot.
>calling others zoomers for not thinking halo is some complex gunplay meme
Based halo retards, you guys are going full for today.
No.
>Yes, because learning to use the assault rifle effectively in a situation its widely regarded as useless in is a very rewarding experience.
Yes, assault rifle, that absolute pinnacle of hard-to-master, extremely situational weapons... again, a good fucking indication of the level we are actually talking about.
And of course, none of that can happen in any other shooter. I mean without two-weapon limits, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY a game may allow or even directly encourage being more experimental with weapons. Also, all weapons handling virtually the same and ending up playing the same role makes them SO COMPLEX to master!
Sticking to the same jack-of-all trade arsenals your entire fucking game is brilliant design. Especially when they all handle like shit and you STILL put weapons and encounters clearly designed around one specific weapon in, you just hand it to the player each time they come up. SO MUCH TACTIC, SUCH GOOD GAMEPLAY DESIGN!!!
No. It's garbage. It's garbage done because it was assumed players would be too fucking dumb to handle rapid weapon switching on consoles, and because - actually - it makes level designing fucking lot easier. It does not benefit the game in any way. It does not even fit the tone to be honest. It's a pure example of making things dumber for the sake of convenience of the developers.
Yeah it evolved like how a log of shit evolves out my ass and into the toilet. lol.
>you STILL put weapons and encounters clearly designed around one specific weapon in, you just hand it to the player each time they come up. SO MUCH TACTIC, SUCH GOOD GAMEPLAY DESIGN!!!
Every FPS does this, what kind of shitty game gives you the wrong tools for the job?
Serious mode on second encounter is harder than any halo on legendary even 2. No one's going to take you seriously because what you said is retarded. But you can pretend that saying that by removing player options you are somehow making a game 'more' complex and 'more' skillful. Halotards are funny.
It did. Problem is that many of its mechanics were later copied without understanding their purpose.
Use gun B that works almost exactly the same but is slightly inferior because older FPS games were almost all uniformly point and click
adventures. AvP brought more to the table than Half-Life, no one cared because gaymers gonna gayme.
Way to make it seem like more elements of gameplay takes less skill so you can subtly jerk yourself off over a mediocre record in
Counterstrike.
I never said Halo on legendary is harder I said it is more fun. Restrictions on weapons change your playstyle and encourage experimentation instead of using the same tactic of strafing and holding left mouse button. Read my posts you illiterate retard.
reaction images arent arguments, user
>Use gun B that works almost exactly the same but is slightly inferior because older FPS games were almost all uniformly point and click
adventures.
Wouln't that apply more to Halo, which doesn't even trust you to point and click, which is why it has aim assist and bullet magnetism out the ass?
yea man spaming krell everywhere is much harder lmmmmaaaaaOoooOoooooO
That's a whole lot of words about things I never said. Pressing one button to instantly switch to one of ten weapons sure sounds more
complicated than targeting and killing a specific guy with the weapon you want then running over cover-to-cover to get it. Use it. Ditch it. Then
retrieve your original weapon to deal with the rest of the short firefight scenario. I'm sure they designed it that way to be so much easier for us
brainlets.
wrong.
why is precise aiming inherently good mechanic?
> Restrictions on weapons change your playstyle and encourage experimentation instead of using the same tactic of strafing and holding left mouse button.
There's your problem right there, what you just said is retarded and why people think your posts are bait. You've never played an arena shooter properly before and to make this easier for you to understand I'll ask this simple question. How do you properly aim a lightning gun in quake and what purpose does it serve compared to the grenade launcher?
Nobody plays arena shooters, poser.
The first Halo has negligible aim assist and no bullet magnetism at all. Still managed to be more difficult than any of the Clancy FPS games of the
time that had no aim assist at all.
In his defense Quake 3 arena was great and all, but no self respecting human bean would take arena shooters seriously enough to compare them to the likes of actual FPS games.
Daily reminder the MCC version is the pc version, which is totally different in many mechanical ways to the original xbox version, it is inferior
You guys are making some good bait, goin all out today huh?
The numbers don't lie, nobody plays arena shooters. Its the go to poser genre for wanting to look hardcore.
>but is slightly inferior
How many old fps games have you actually played?
Bait? Arena shooters are to FPS games as Mario Cart is to racing games and Smash is to fighting games. This has been the truth of things
since the days of yore. Sure some people take them very seriously, but they aren't real people.
>halo players honestly believe this.
Based halo retards.
Do you really believe they are going to take the old halo 1 pc code and just re-release it with higher resolutions?
Name an arena shooter that is popular to current gamers.
>smash is to fighting games
bad comparison, smash has more skill expression than most fighters.
>Every FPS does this, what kind of shitty game gives you the wrong tools for the job?
I know they do, it just makes no sense in Halo and undermines the importance of weapon commitment that is literally the SOLE argument people who defend the two weapon limit in the first place. >Pressing one button to instantly switch to one of ten weapons sure sounds more complicated than targeting and killing a specific guy with the weapon you want
You REALLY haven't played any non-Halo based shooter, have you? This is I think the fundamental issue with you faggots, and one of the core problems with the franchise and it's absolutely deluded user base. Somebody summed it very well in one of these threads, when he said people hate Halo primarily because of it's userbase being idiots who only settled for sub-par product, then trumped it up as the best thing ever without ever trying anything a little more challenging in design.
>Use it. Ditch it.
Because that works very well in Halo. Fuck, you just gave me a flashback to that god-fucking awful tank segment in the late game that was so bad it was eventually removed from the subsequent releases of the game.
In reality, you don't have to do that, and often can't do that unless the designers specifically thought of it. And even in the few segments it happens, it just makes the thing more tedious, because of how retarded the weapon picking up is. It's like collecting pick-ups in fucking Bioshock Infinite.
>I'm sure they designed it that way to be so much easier for us brainlets.
But that is precisely what they did. You pick a weapon, you go with it. Every now and then you pick another weapon and go with it for another 15 minutes or more. One jack-of-all-trades and one situation for whatever gimmick enemies they decided to put into that segment. For 8+ hours. Really, really thoughtful gameplay.
The numbers don't lie, poser.
Probably all of them. Even the ones you've never heard of. Robotica was underrated.
Halo is a good shooter that inadvertently kneecapped the industry by being so good and successful that every developer and publisher out there chased its success rather than develop their own unique IP.
Just like Call of Duty, and maybe even a little like DOOM, when you look at how many utterly garbage shovelware DOOM clones exist out there.
Not really. Everything has mostly stagnated since Unreal in 1998 and Unreal Tournament in 1999.
Relevant how?
You do realize that most people aren't actually comparing Halo to arena shooters, right?
I agree with your point, but I have a single nitpick.
If you actually look at those "Doom Clones" most of them are Wolfenstein clones.
Fair enough.
It kneecapped the industry by proving that inferior products are easier to sell, and teaching that lesson to most other studies. Not by being good.
Most of the clones that copied it faceplanted, though. Is that true?
>If you actually look at those "Doom Clones" most of them are Wolfenstein clones.
This is true, since most "Doom clones" are not really clones but more their own things and many were good, I sure wouldn't call Duke 3d a Doom clone. They were just called "Doom clones" or "Doom likes" since the term FPS was not made popular till Quake 1 came out.
Out of the Wolf clones, the only ones I'd say that were decent was Ken's Labyrinth and Blake Stone (which use an upgraded Wolf engine)
Even games like fucking Heretic managed to expand on the formula quite a lot.
If you have to ask you've proved my point.
Yes and only zoomers will argue otherwise. It was singularly responsible for making the FPS genre. Doomfags BTFO
I've played quite a lot of them and more than probably should have so many reskinned bullet hoses you end up choosing purely for minor
benefits like bigger magazine sizes or tighter spread. Small advantages when the sum of all skill in the game is simply getting the bullets
into your targets head as quickly and efficiently as possible, which requires like I said, just pointing and clicking at it.
I've been polite up until now but you've simply gone too far. Every part in the game that put you on a tank adventure was awesome and worthy
of dying on legendary just to play it again and again. If its true they removed this, then I'm too sad to think of colorful ways to insult you at this point.
Unless you've got a dev here to confirm that last part, it isn't really valid. Bungie stated in interviews everything about the gameplay was
very intentional to provide a specific experience that people would enjoy enough to want to repeat it as the game went on. It didn't have
anything to do with dumbing down for consoles, it was a purely formulaic thing. I would think the fact it had vehicles at all is proof enough of that.
That's already what Halo 1 MCC currently is. This is a big reason why many previous Xbox Kai Halo CE players avoided it
Fuck no. FPS was already miles ahead of halo when it launched. Consolebabs didn't know any better.
The only thing halo "evolved" like a plague was regenerating HP which is trash tier game design.
I always wonder what anons mean by this? Do they know that quake con goes on yearly, was the most popular thing of its time when it came out, and that pretty much every online game owes its infrastructure to it? Do they also know that halo is an arena shooter right, and got btfo by CoD for about 10 years so by the same measure they're just as relevant?
so this... is the FPS community... whoa...
Doom era was objectively better, but it took a real innovator to somehow simplify all of those mechanics and keys from selling a few copies and being developed by five guys, to taking over the world. While its true Halo and the games it inspired are objectively good, I will never be able to look at them as anything other than console baby shit because thats literally what it is, even if its really good at it. But I am outnumbered, eventually those who agree with me will just die and our elitism with us. None of this matters.
>so by the same measure they're just as relevant?
Except people are exited to play Halo on PC in an official capacity. Nobody gave a fuck about Quake Champions.
No, it did with Quake
Nobody cares about Quake anymore for fucks sake. Of all the things to shit up a thread with this is even more annoying than politics. At least that's funny.
it set the fps genre back as a whole but pushed fps on the console forward for years to come.
sorry you and every single other faggot who got into fps with slow shooters like halo and cod can't handle how fps are meant to be played.
>I've played quite a lot of them
You played a lot of them and you still argue weapon jugling from games like Serious Sam or Blood is less challenging then constant use of two interchangeable weapons in Halo? Sure.
>Every part in the game that put you on a tank adventure was awesome
Yes, That portion where the game hands you a rocket launcher 20 minutes and three combat encounters before you actually meet a damn tank, forcing you either to haul around a useless piece of junk, or (which is what most people did), discovering you need it only at the end, hauling ass 500 meters through empty boring corridor to pick it up, going back, blowing up a tank in a trivial encounter, then hauling back to pick up the actually useful weapon you had to drop again: that was amazing. So amazing and so worth replaying it they actually fucking changed it on all subsequent re-releases of the game.
>Unless you've got a dev here to confirm that last part, it isn't really valid
Thanks to one similar cretin I rewatched footage of the specific segment on original CE and Aniversary back to back. You can find it yourself if you are mental enough not to believe me.
Sure, the devs claim that every part was designed for a specific experience. Sure.
It's just that the experience is POOR.
Halo series marked the casualization of the FPS genre.
>regenerating health
>ready-grenade
>starting with the omnitool making power weapons on map redundant (Pistol/BR)
>vehicles
>giant bullet magnetism and auto-aim
>Nobody cares about quake
>except the people on discord still running duels
>except the people still running quakecon where they announce all Doom information
>except the people who made dusk and announced duskworld
>except the people who just announced wrath aeon of ruin
>except the people who still make quake jams
>except the people still playing live and qc.
What you mean to say is that for all the posturing people give casuals don't try anything outside their easy comfort zones and that there's a small portion of people who care about quake and you're a zoomer and not one of them.
>making power weapons on map redundant
Controlling rockets and powerups in CE decide games more than pistol battles do.
>>starting with the omnitool making power weapons on map redundant (Pistol/BR)
This is when I knew you were full of shit
try playing it on harder then normal next time
>multiplayer has difficulty settings
I had good memories of this game, but I can't go back to the horrible controls
You shouldn't be going back to the N64 version anyway, the 360 port was better in literally every way except for character customization.
>Quake Champions gets announced, tells a bunch of hardcore vets they're following modern gaming cancer
>Everyone in their right minds points out how retarded this is
>youtubers say quake is back because they're ignorant retards, play it for one weekend then go back to their popular cancer
>game runs like shit and crashes on nvidia cards all the time
>game is balanced like shit
>game's netcode, you know the one thing that you should get right anyways, is shit
>forums are full of this, even some youtubers point on this, youtube.com
>Nothing gets fixed because bethesda decided to take one of the core fps franchises and give it to some new russian devs al la Mass effect Andromeda
>Game only peaks at 17k pleasing no one because its a large piece of shit hardly anyone could run in the first place
>Entire brainlet population of zoomers: WOW JUST YOUR GENRE IS DEAD BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY IT! NOT BECAUSE EVERY ATTEMPT IS A BUGGY MESS THAT HASNT MATCHED A GAME 20 YEARS OLD WHICH IS KINDA SAD OF THE GAMING INDUSTRY AS A WHOLE!
I like it when zoomers try to rewrite history.
halo is an arena shooter think of other arena shooters which might have shaped the genre before it
I mean it evolved the genre, sure, but there are many evolutionary paths a species can take.
And some of them are dead ends.
Story and character presentation, yes, most definitely. Though I'd say going forward story and character presentation came out of Half Life 2 while many gameplay mechanics were ripped off of Halo.
Then Cover shooters became a thing and tossed everything learned from Halo and Half Life 2 out the window.
You mean Crysis? That came out well after Halo for one thing, and, for another... did you actually play that game?
>the slow walking helped with jumping using an inferior control
halo might as well be called "jump or die" because the slow walking made every single interaction between two players a match of jumping and shooting there is nothing good about this
I don't see the dude dodging the AR at all I have no clue what you are trying to show with that webm
>halo is an arena shooter
Only to people who have never played an arena shooter.
I got into it with Doom, Quake and Hexen you cunt. I just wasn't impressed by them. There were way more interesting genres at the time
that took full advantage of a mouse and keyboard.
So what you're saying is the game is shit, in your opinion. I thought you were trying to persuade me it was a step backwards.
I played Quake 3 arena online a lot fresh off release. I can't possibly imagine being so enthralled by this that I couldn't let go even
twenty years later.
I played Halo CE/Halo 2 professionally, dropped that shit and forgot it even existed soon as Battlefield 2142 released. Don't regret it either
because its still the greatest FPS ever made. In fact I'm really surprised Halo is still so popular today. I guess talking shit on everyone bashing
Halo is part of the full nostalgic experience at this point. I do miss the bants at centers hosting Halo, Counterstrike and Smash tournaments. Hm, don't recall any Quake ones though..
>they even had a control scheme for 2 sticks by using 2 controllers, sure it was not perfect but they were already 10 years into the future with their ideas
user that's actually from the past. 2.1 controls were carried over from goldeneye 64.
Halo is an arena shooter just an extremely dumbed down one, like doom 2016. Literally babby's first arena shooter, basically halo fags are to fpses what smashfags are to fighting games.
multiplayer fps games can be broken into two categories
arena shooters
every player starts at the same point, you find things in the arena
class based shooters
players are different from the very beginning
The only thing Halo borrows from arena shooters are the pickups.
By your definition, Counter Strike is an arena shooter.
As I said, its pickups and powerups (invis, powershield, sword, rockets) are super diluted babbys first arena shooter. But think UT big vehicle maps more than Quake.
maybe for the very first round, after that it is more similar to TF2 than any arena shooter
medal of honor european assault was one of the most fun splitscreen games i've ever played, in spite of the ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE things such as 100% accurate hip fire sniper rifles and shotguns having a one hit kill range equivalent to LMG fire
But that's literally all it has in common with an arena shooter. Might as well call it a beat-em-up since it has a dedicated melee button too.
>So what you're saying is the game is shit, in your opinion.
I'm also providing extensive argumentation why it's shit, something you should learn to do while you argue your points as well.
I don't know if you are lying about the games you played, or if you just have god fucking awful taste, and I don't care anymore. You literally can't make a point to save your life.
Smelee players still play their decade old game, why don't quakefags?
No, it's shit since encounters need to be limited to be beaten with any combinations, but actually the game is made thinking you will always have some form of assault rifle, limiting your choices.
How did Halo continue to live while Timesplitters burned out before the 7th gen?
The most fun in this series was the launch of Halo 2 on Windows XP. Why these games have become so successful is still a mystery to me.
Timesplitters did not have as much marketing behind it, and did not pander as much as Halo to particularly exploitable demographics. That is why they were forgot but Halo remained an insane cult.
You're in the complete opposite direction of correct. Arena shooters are exactly what the name says, an FPS simplified and streamlined
into somekind of dumb e-sport bait. Just like Smash. Ensuring they'll never actually get the following they need to be relevant as an e-sport.
It's like a big retarded shit-snake eating its own tail.
you only need 2 weapons because of the low enemy count on screen
Bungie has no excuses though, Urban Chaos Riot Response allowed you to carry an arsenal on the same generation, and as a console-only shooter.
On Heroic and Legendary difficulties you're really forced to scavenge and work with what you've got available, as ammo/battery power is scarce. Plus enemy resistances to specific damage types are increased on those difficulties, so for example mag-dumping a pistol into an energy-shielded Elite isn't going to do much. You're really encouraged to juggle weapons to match what you're fighting and what's available. The limitation is also not quite as bad when you consider that you've also got grenades and melee attacks available to you regardless of which weapons you choose.
Not that that's particularly difficult to do, but it's still not as much as a negative as people seem to think it is. Halo certainly has places where casualization hurts it (speed being the main one) but the 2-gun limit isn't one of them.
Remember that quake already existed then
Jumping and aiming was what you did there
It looked dumb as hell, even if it wasn't actually. Halo was sleek and edgy. That's pretty much the only reason. All the marketing in the world
can't get people to try something that looks repugnant but has a heart of gold.
Fortnite did a lot of things not just right, but better than non-BR counterparts. For how much shit Halo players talked on it and brought
up recoil patterns, the building in Fortnite was like incomprehensible eldritch sorcery to them. Each building piece in the game had tricks you
needed to learn to use them to their maximum potential that weren't as obvious as point and click recoil memorization.
It was so difficult to master something like the double ramp rush it blew peoples minds at tournaments when they saw it in action. No
game to my knowledge has since had learning curbs so steep for combat.
>You're really encouraged to juggle weapons
No, you're encouraged to carry one of each pistol. Plasma pistol ammo is in plentiful supply, and the human pistol needs between 1 and 2 bullets to kill every enemy in the game afterward.
>Halo was sleek and edgy.
Not really, unless you were 11 at the time. It looked like fucking garbage, but I guess kids do like that trash.
I'm sure this wasn't what you intended but its probably true and I bet that makes you angry.
I'm guessing you were the one guy with just a playstation and a copy of Timesplitters everyone snubbed to go play Halo.
No, I actually had a PC like all real people. I only appreciated TS retroactively, and I still am not a great fan because it still has all the fundamental issues console shooters share. But at least it has some level of charm and imagination put into it.
>I'm sure this wasn't what you intended but its probably true and I bet that makes you angry.
No, I unironically play Fortnite fairly regularly and I don't give a fuck. I just don't know how you can think that pulling the plasma pistol trigger really fast takes more than a few minutes to master. I'd also love to hear any other examples of "incomprehensible eldritch sorcery" you might have. Shooting people in the head with the pistol? Getting close to people with the shotgun? Swinging the sword when the reticle is red? Closest thing I can think of is BXR canceling, and that takes a couple of days to learn tops.
2 weapon limit was a mistake.
Otherwise, Halo was a pretty groundbreaking shooter.
>2 weapons
Means you have to make choices as to what weapons you take, more powerful weapons like sniper and rocket launcher have less ammo, so you may consider keeping a more mediocre weapon with plentiful ammo. Having every weapon in the game in your inventory is brainlet shit.
>slow movement
means you have to think about your positioning, being able to zip around the map a 3 million miles an hour means you aren't punished for poor positioning since you can just immediately zip to a better position, once again, brainlet shit
>relies heavily on auto aim
no shit, it's a console shooter
If it only took a few minutes to master, everyone on xboxconnect and the scene in general would've been doing it. I'd go into further
examples but they'd be lost on you since you're very confused on what game we're even talking about.
And this, kids, is why it was pretty much a taboo to even mention this game on this board until recently. This shit.
>very confused on what game we're even talking about.
I had to go into other Halo games because I ran out of examples of "incomprehensible eldritch sorceries" in Halo CE. If you wish to limit yourself to Halo CE, then go ahead and tell me some more complexities from CE besides how to pull RT really fast.
>ever using the alien weapons
>double tap dodge in unreal tournament
>game has hitscan
>doesn't need projectile based weapons
lol no it's because console controllers don't have a number pad or a scroll wheel to be able to select different guns and doing it by 2 buttons takes forever to go through 10 different weapons so you lose the tactical advantage of using 10 different weapons in a battle
unbalanced game even more unbalanced on harder difficulty?
all online games on console only use battle rifle and pistol because highest DPS at any range
happened first on PC because you can actually aim with a mouse
all you need to know about halo is that halo players can't 360 noscope without aim assist
Each weapon had different timing in order to avoid oversampling. If you aren't familiar, that means just pulling the trigger really fast doesn't
work at all, it sputters and staggers the shots if they aren't timed perfectly. This is why it was such an impossible feat to fire the plasma pistol
as fast as the AI can in legendary. Which if you played it I'm sure you remember just how fast even a grunt killed you because of that.
Every weapon benefits from this to some degree, especially the assault rifle and plasma rifle, all of which have their own unique timings.
The plasma rifle was the easiest, roughly the same as the time it takes for a full trigger pull. This eliminated all of its spread entirely and
since it stuns, allowed you to use it to keep people frozen at further ranges than is normally possible, both from the more staggered shots
and better heat efficiency.
More relevant to the BxR, Halo CE's equivalent was the melee-grenade-melee. Which could be executed as fast as you could press the
buttons, but it wasn't hard to learn to do compared to the fire timing. Which was necessary even for the pistol, since just holding the trigger in introduced a spread that made it not great at long range.
None of this is really difficult to understand, my choice of words was to illustrate their refusal to even try to understand it like it was taboo knowledge or something.
Mother of god. That's some bait.
Not sure if it "evolved" FPS, but it was a welcome addition to Quake, Unreal and FEAR for me.
Vehicles certainly made a nice addition to gameplay variation.
>halo
>having to think
YIKES!
It devolved.
But gen 8 was even worse.
Peak of fps was Ut99g quake 3 arena cod 4 and halo1-3
After late 00s it was just aids
Do you retards who post this fail to see the Halo 5 map is like twice the size of the Halo 3 map?
>NOT BECAUSE EVERY ATTEMPT IS A BUGGY MESS
sure, I remember Reflex, Toxikk, and Warsow being dead after one week because they were that buggy, not because outsiders can't be bothered to care about games which are literally just reskinned versions of Q3/CPMA/UT and veterans not having any reasons to move on from their 10/10 CPMA to a 9.5/10 clone with no players
it's not like this joke of a subgenre is fucking dead because new arena shooters can't do anything more than copy Quake 3/UT with practically zero innovation
Fair enough, I've only played Halo CE casually, and didn't know that much depth went into fire rate control. Thanks for your well thought-out post and sorry for doubting, I genuinely thought you were trolling at first.
>Did the FPS genre truly evolved with Halo?
played only by american teenagers oh and FPS on console. lol
>what is Quakecon
Everything after Halo CE had nothing like this, was all downhill from there. 'Casualized,' I guess. It isn't very well known today because most people started with 2 or 3.
Its basically halo fags pretending some part of their game which is actually exactly like any proper shooter is some hard to master ability. Like weapons operating differently and figuring out different spray patterns isn't the basis for most pc shooters.
The basis for most PC shooters is point and click, you mean. I wonder how ritalin muppets like Ninja can just hop-skip-dipity-doo from game to
game as if its no big deal. Perhaps it's because they're all the same fucking game.
bunny hopping with perfect timing while maximizing the x and y linear curve of turning while also adding mouse acceleration is the same as halo's MOOOOOOOON JUUUUUUUUMP then melee gameplay
Needing to bunnyhop at all means you already fucked up and is an admission of incompetence. I'm glad this cringy bounce of shame was never a part of Halo.
lol r u serious?
Do you fail to see that is because sprint exists? You stupid fucking nigger
Bro, give it up. The fast-paced arena shooter genre is dead. Fucking Broodwar is more alive than the combined playerbase of all arena shooter games put together. If you want to keep it alive, then stop posing and go play it. God knows I'd LOVE to find a match in Australia that isn't constantly dominated by 20+ year old vets of the genre.
Quakefags don't exist on Yea Forums anymore
Terminal cancer serious.
Sorry this meme belongs to Planetside 2 and combined arms shooters. Get your own arenafags.
crisis is praise for the visuals/cosmetic details.
It was different and influenced games after it so yes.
>>moves far slower than any fps protagonist in existence at the time, even a fucking female librarian (the protagonist of the Wheel of Time) moves much faster
What did you mean by this?
>got worse:
>>level design
>>music
>>plot
>>characters
>>weapon variety
>>secondary functions
>>co-op modes
>>multiplayer modes
Are you saying those things got worse with Halo? Negro you are fucking dumb if you think that. I'll give you level design since Halo is quite linear, but it has open areas within the campaign which feel massive for an FPS, and that doesn't always appeal to everyone.
Halo is a good game that was highly influential. However, the fruit of its influence is mostly bad, because nobody understood what worked about Halo or why; superficial aspects were mindlessly aped. The worst consequence is the platform shift from PC to console (even though Halo was originally a PC game).