You're not a tier whore, right?

>WFT
>low
nope

Fox and olimar should also be top

Pokemon trainer and Young link should be moved a stage down

Falco Luigi and Bayo should be mid mid

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Everytime it happens on Stream, the commentators freak out.
Everyone sleeps on Pac until he curbstomps your waifu.

CaptCha was "Select all Fire Hydrants

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I think ZSS should be higher.

fetish mod hehe funny

I play Daisy because I like her, not because she's a top tier.
She can get nerfed I'll still play her.

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Fucking sure I am. Not in smash though, Dk pretty much the only one I play.

I still cannot believe they nerfed duck hunt... out of all the people to nerf with items. It is insulting to say the least.

I enjoy the challenge

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>Bowser Jr.
>not one of the Shitlings
Based and Junior-pilled

>tfw Inkling and Wario main

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As a Mac main, no

I'd turn Wolf into a whore all right.

I thought Inkling was the best character in the game?

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No. In fact, I refuse to play anyone who picks top tier characters, just to spite them and call them out on their horrible tier whore pick.

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She's very very good and I think her placement here is actually spot on (maybe Olimar ahead of her if it's in order but that's debatable) but people all overestimated her

She definitely has a lot of great things going for her like her ridiculous dash and recovery but not enough to put her over the others.

Note top players always have a habit of downplaying their own mains and propping up other "good" characters to make it seem like they're better. All of these tournament players who put Inkling top or near the top of their tier lists still don't play her at all, she's just an easy character to point at and say "She's so good! So much better than MY main!".

Maining Lil Mac.
Tiers mean nothing to me.
I will Smash my way to victory.

Not by a long shot

Tiers don't matter unless you're actually good, which no-one on Yea Forums is

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That's a shitty tier list.

Yea Forums I need some advice. I play this game when I visit my brother and I mained and got to Elite with K Rool which kind of sparked my brother's competetive edge to get Elite with his main Samus. He keeps getting close but can't seem to break through. This unfortunately made him a super salty tryhard compared to his usual lax ways and everytime I play I have to sandbag or else he would probably drop the game forever (which has happened with other games). Any advice? Should I main a secondary and try to practice with him? Should I just end it?

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>that image
Blessed.
Show him the glory that is Pac-Man. He will be stomping on everyone in no time.

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Tier-whore.

>tfw highest character is zelda
>tfw plant and kirby are fucking bottom

All my characters are mid or lower
I guess Im an honest player

nobody is sleeping on shit, just because you trash online/local shitters with Pac and Doc it doesn't mean they are viable for real competitive play.

I play Palutena, DK, King Dedede, Pac-man, Puff, and Meta-knight mostly. Online however, I enjoy playing Little Mac. Pretty much every battle is an uphill battle and I've been able to defeat quite a few Richter's by showing them I can jump good. I've also had quite a few opponents that do the honorable best of 3, and I don't really get teabagged much at either somehow.

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>Wario not in top tier
Thjis tier list is shit
Pacman has good result in Japan

That's a big borb

The people that put Dedede in any kind of high tier are fucking delusional. They do not play Dedede. They are morons that can't block a gordo. I've been using Dedede since 4. He's definitely buffed, but not to such an extent. I mean, they buffed the worst character in 4. That's not really significant. He still struggles with lower tier characters like Samus and Villager.

japans are shitters compared to american players. the framedata doesn't lie

>incinichad low
No way decent mid mid
>mii brawler bottom tier
You faggots slept on him in 4 as well
He's somewhat slow but he is surprisingly decent in air and on stage
His specials don't have too much lag either (1,1,1 loadout)

By the standards of that tier list, no.

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>played yink in melee because major and oot are my favorite zeldas and he has some jank that was fun to dick around with
>played snake in brawl because its fucking solid snake in brawl
>played wario in PM because he was actually fun and not lame like snake
>played ganon in sm4sh because the game was a joke
>now get called a teirwhore for playing characters i like
Not even upset, im just happy Wario is good and fun again.

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>k.rool
>bottom
was the nerf that bad?

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He was never that good. It was just casuals that just wanted a reason that isnt "i suck" for losing.

>K. Rool lower than Junior
was this made by someone who kept running into Rool shitters in quickplay?

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why the fuck is greninja so high

Autistic Japs

>tfw Kirby main

It fucking hurts

could you are least color them sensibly? And not use "Mid Mid"?

One day they'll give him air speed, then he'll be busted.

are you a tier whore if you mained a shit character in 4 but is good in ultimate

>implying
Even if he was the most busted character I would still use him

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Not picking a top tier :
> At low level of play you'll see no difference in your skills than people picking up top tiers
> You'll learn a few gimmicks making you "good"
> At some point you'll start to see how flawed is your character, start losing more and more
> Get tired of the game and lose interest because the amount of efforts you've put in your character wasn't worth it

Picking up a top tier:
>You have enough options to improve and become better so you don't lose interest in the game

Why are people here afraid of picking up top tier? If you don't want to feel "cheap" then don't take the easy to play top tiers (for instance Ike), but don't dig your own grave for no reason

I just started using Mac and it's kind of weird using him. He gets my blood pumping and I don't get mad losing with him.

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Yep. Game's too frustrating on its own to bother playing bad characters too.

Japan

Kenbro Here, All Ken needs is the ability to Air Dodge 3-5 Frames after using any type of Shoryuken.

No but I might get judged for playing Young Link. I just want to play as Link, man, but I hate BotW's bombs/costume(s) and Toon Link's playstyle.

My criteria to narrow it down
Characters I like->Characters that suit my playstyle->How good they are

I would never pick a top tier just for the sake of picking a top tier. I'll play a character I like and if there's no one I like or if there's many then I go for who suits my playstyle and who I can personally do well, if there's multiple of those then I'll definitely go by tiers.

Basically this. I like Luigi so he's my main and I like Inkling because I like Splatoon and her playstyle. If they end up good or bad then I don't really care.

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im a ridley main and i honestly think he should be higher

in fact i think the only buffs he really needs is fixing some of his moves hitboxes and i want him to be able to roar for longer when you drag someone through the floor

>plant is bottom tier
>regularly shit on wolf/peach/pikachu/lucina at locals and only really have issue with inkling or ness
is everyone I fight actually shit?

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>Wario main since Brawl
>Everyone now thinks you're a tier whore

Who else has known that feel with their characters in this game or others?

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Yes

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can anyone give me a rundown on why rosalina is considered awful now?

id hope playing wolf (or any other fast character) online, would be as easy as this list suggests

just a little lag can completely kill any fast character

>Luigi main since 64
>all the salt in 4
He was the most fun in 4 for me. I hate the new cyclone and grab but I'll still use him.

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Because most people here have an insatiable need to be seen as "based."

You think I'm gonna drop my 11 year main because he's high tier now?

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She doesn't hit as hard anymore and her Luma is a bit weaker.

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Yeah

Player skill>Tiers. You're just better than them.

Smash players especially have this perception that a character being top tier means they're easy to play and that people who pick those characters aren't skilled because they don't have the handicaps of bad recovery, limited combos, etc. holding them back. They're also fucking delusional and think that smacking around randoms in netplay makes them and their characters good. You see it in every Smash thread.

>"Oh, Pac Man/K. Rool/whoever isn't low tier, I dunk on people with them all the time"

That's great. Who are you? Who are the people you're playing? Are they exposing themselves to a lot of tense competition by signing up for a cash prize tournament? Or are they just stoned adults and literal children that are just fumbling through the game? Tier lists only matter in tournament or other formats with comparable stakes. Anyone can win with any character when people aren't actively trying to exploit your weaknesses by picking stages your character might suck on, by picking characters that make neutral unplayable for you, and basically whatever it takes to make them winning that much easier. Tier lists are about who survives in an environment where your flaws are going to cost you thousands of dollars in cash, or else you have to have the mindset that every time you see Peach online you're assuming this is the final boss of all of Smash. Every time you face her. That's an insane way to think in a competitive game.

How are Peach and Daisy top tier?

>caring about tiers when you don’t go to tournaments

>shulk mid tier
lol

I've loved Ike and Roy since forever though, and Inkling was so fun that I picked her up before tier whoring.

Watch Samsora fights

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I like to play the best characters in the game, even tho i'm not that good, so yes, most of my character picks are either top or high tier. Deal with it faggot

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I will continue to play my character no matter where autistic sperglords who have never seriously used him place him on their faggot tier lists.

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I refuse to believe Ridley is utter garbage. I know he's not top but he doesn't feel awful. Just give him some tweaks. Hell, is this even all that accurate or is Ult fairly balanced to begin with so even low is still viable? Cause some of those low choices seem dumb. Even if shit I'll still main him but I don't want him to be shit.

I do feel like Sakurais team looking only at win rates is stupid. Do they take into consideration matchups? If most top tier characters in Elite are only fighting against mostly other top tiers, that's not going to paint a very accurate picture, is it?

This is the most balanced Smash ever. Ridley has issues but I don't think he's utter trash.

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>If most top tier characters in Elite are only fighting against mostly other top tiers, that's not going to paint a very accurate picture, is it?

It does actually, it tells them exactly which characters the best players don't consider very good to play in elite

Ridiculous combos
Great recovery that she can mix up well
Floating is great for aerials

some of these top/high tier characters require a lot of practice to be even decent though

having said that, swordies are braindead

>Samus
Should be mid
>Corrin
Low mid instead of low low
>Ganondorf
lmao you delusional nigger, his attacks covers everything
Put him in high mid
>ROB
Dominant aerial game
Put that fucker in low high instead
>Pokemon Trainer
Mid
>Marth in same tier as Chrom
No. Move Chrom up one tier or Marth down one.
>Lucas not in same tier as Ness
They are so alike, their differences does not matter as much as to differentiate them into two tiers
>Meta Knight
Down he goes
>Young Link, Greninja, Fox
They're good but not that good
High mid/ low high instead
>Jigglypuff
Mid mid
>Snake
Easily high mid or high high
>K. ROOL bottom
No. Mayybe lower mid
>G&W
One tier up
>Bayonetta
One tier down

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It's a party game.

I wonder who's getting buffed or nerfed for 3.0

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I swear I've seen this exact same picture by a different artist.

I'm going to dread every update that they'll nerf Ridley somehow. I doubt they'll increase his weight or give him another jump, but a guy can dream. I hope if anything he's buffed a little. His 2.0 buffs seemed useless.

This one?

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Yeah that's the one. Guess it's the same artist, oops.

I can't really see Ridley getting a nerf. Is he used often enough online to get complaints anyway?

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>play peach and kirby
yes and no I guess

K Rool was trash from the beginning, it was just week 1 top tier because people need some day to adapt to armor and meme moves. It was Sm4sh week 1 Little Mac all over again

Fuck tier lists and fuck the niggers that treat them as some sort of prophet. Will always stick to my crocodile boi until the end of time.

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I pick random every time and have fun so I mean

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>implying doc is viable with his absolute garbage recovery
i love him, but goddamn he needs a buff to his jumps or his down b to make him somewhat viable

>tiers

It's not a serious fighting game, so I just use whoever I want

You might as well have just said that you suck at smash

we live in a society
where ganondorf is a better character than captain falcon

I want to fucking kms myself

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I main the character I perform well with and fits like a glove.

in this game that just happens to be Palutena. I also have Mii Gunner and Link as secondaries.

Nice blogpost dude, good job on missing the entire point of tiers

fuck off, its not my fault my favorite character from one of my favorite series turned out to be high tier

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GOD do I fucking love this dragon. Ridley's in smash!

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I played falcon in 64, melee and 4.

But he feels awfull in ultimate.
This is not the character i enjoyed playing all the years.

D-D-DOC, I NEED DOUBLE THE DOSAGE FOR THIS

>Don't play competitive or claim I do
>Main Lucina, Pichu, Ike, Ness, Richter/Simon, Isabelle, K. Rool and Little Mac because I like how they play
>get called a tierwhore when I play Ike/Lucina/Pichu against my friends
>but they just ignore the fact that I also play low tier characters
I think my friends are just sore losers.

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Olimar is legit the only character I would be happy to see removed.

The shotos really need a Hadouken buff badly
Hadouken is probably a bottom 3 projectile with the way it is now

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He was never really good. His saving grace is armor and only the most bottom feeding retard can't deal with armor. His projectiles, while big and slow themselves, have loads of startup, none of his good stuff has any real reach, his recovery is alright but not some invulnerable shit like everyone thought. He's got loads of different tools in his kit but everyone knows how to fight them now so none of them are good enough to get him above average.

Why is Mii Brawler at the very bottom? I've been using em recently and I thought they were pretty good.

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all the character i use the most are in top and high except robin and DK so iunno.

he really fucking needs a debuff. The fact that if I try to knock attached Pikmin off and that attack makes contact with anything then it doesn't damage the Pikmin at all is bullshit.

I main Kirby, sub Shulk, and dabble with everyone else here n there. Don't give a fuck about tiers. Play who you like and have fun.

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Ult has decent balance, but that doesn't mean anyone below Snake on that tier list has proven much. Characters like Mega Man, Pac-Man, Roy, Mario, Ice Climbers, and Lucas have some growth potential but not much is pushing others forward right now. Ridley isn't really seen as bad but he's not that versatile.

Melee Peach or U Peach?

it's pretty easy to keep him out and he has awful specials outside like the flip kick. His normals are okay but nothing special. I think very bottom isn't right but he's low tier at best.

Mained them since I was first able to because I want to die in Palutena's armpits, loved KIU, the MOTHER games and I'm a Xenofag. I merely play Palutena more that she's actually usable.

>tfw make Yea Forums SEETHE just by playing them alone

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K. Rool and Ridley aren't useless or bad, they're just relatively low tier compared to everyone else. Ridley is honestly the easiest character to balance, just make him a superweight and he'll instantly boost up a tier. K. Rool is more difficult to think what he needs buffs on.

The only outright awful characters in the game is Bowser Jr. and Little Mac.

>tfw main Mii Brawler

It's like playing Little Mac that can recover and has free combos.

I should go to local events. Anyone know how Mii Fighters work at tourneys?

I have been switching mains here and there but I stuck with Wolf, cause I think his overall speed is very nice. His combos are fun and satisfying as well. He brings me back to PM in a way, and that does it for me.

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is Bowser Jr that bad now?, had good times maining him in 4 despite his flaws

I think the exact ruling is you have to say you're making a Mii before the match starts and shouldn't spend too much time making it, IE just picking the moves, naming it, and nothing else.

main lucas
secondary kirby and wario

how am i alive

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poor recovery and overall pretty bad special moves
personally i find gunner weaker due to being slow as fuck, and having the second worst airgame in the entire roster (you know exactly who the first is)

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Cloud and Dedede

guess not then

>Gunner
>Second worst air game
uAir, nAir, and bAir would like a word. fAir was nerfed a fuckton but it's still useful.

any tips for a practicing wolf?

i struggle punishing ledge recoveries, i'm having some success with short hop/nair but i am very inconsistent

also not sure which of his attacks are good for ledge defense in general

Piranha plant isn't that bad, it's just different and has no real flowchart so "hurr durr it's bad because it's unreliable"

>No approach
>Slow
>Can't edgeguard
>Side special practically useless against anyone with brain cells
>Character designed to beat people above him in a game where they're in front of you most of the time
Yeah, it's totally "muh flowcharts make top tiers babby mode"

I'm still learning to ledgeguard with him, but if you angle forward-tilt downwards, it can catch opponents that are trying to get on the stage.
Wolf's neutral-B is key for neutral game, as his bullets can't be interrupted.
Up smashing out of shield is ridiculously good.
Down throwing into a dash attack is very good as well.
Also, a lot of people I know don't realize that you can angle his side-B.

I'm still learning, not an expert

>Piranha Plant Can't edgeguard
>Side B is useless

wtf nigga?

>that bad now
Bowser Jr. has literally always been one of the worst characters in terms of balance from 4 to now.

He was also the character that not only had the least amount of buffs and changes in Ultimate but also one of the few that actually got NERFED for no inexplicable reason.

I think Sakurai genuinely hates Bowser Jr. Maybe he blames him for "ruining" Bowser.

Garbage run/air speed. While he can recover from off stage with ease, a good opponent will likely already be back on stage before he can get to them.

Just because a fully charged sideB can potentially deal a lot of damage/break a shield doesn't make it a good move. All it can really do is cloak your next option, which is useful but when they see the sideB out they're already going to stay away form anything you can do.

>PP can't edgeguard
>3 of his specials are all about edgeguarding/spacing
What?

thanks i seem to be missing some of the more bread and butter stuff

i agree having that neutral B is a godsend, specially around swordies who like to spam run, short hop fair/nairs as it fucks up their jump spacing

Tierlists mean nothing to me cause I don’t play competitive or pay for nintendo’s garbage online, but it’s fun watching the autists sperg out over every balance patch. Tiers are only for tryhards and fags

I'll slap anyone across the face who dares picking a high+ tier character in my proximity.

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No, but I played Lucina a lot in Smash 4, so when I unlock her I'll probably use her a bit. I play Zelda and Jigglypuff mostly.

Nah, tiers are whack. Every matchup is subjective based on players playstyles anyway. Any nonbabbybrain would know this and disregard tier list clickbait though.

I just use who I like, which is mainly Robin and Corrin.

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>Wario High Tier.
Okay the others I get, but what the fuck does he have?

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Very fast vertical speed in the air, actually one of the fastest in the game.

And like a 40% relatively easy kill confirm with waft.

the clap(tm)

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a fully charged Side B on the ledge while the opponent is about to grab it is at the very least free damage and it forces them to make a hasty recovery which you can also exploit

down/neutral special are also pretty good for ledge guarding if you mastered the different timings for tilting the pot and throwing the ball, hell many people don't know that you can throw it a good horizontal distance away if you wait until the ball is near your mouth, this is particularly good in situations where you get sent thrown off the stage upwards since it's an attack many people don't even expect, much less to hit them from that far away

i do agree plant sucks at many other things though, but it can also bite for sure

I would've mained my cute waifu Lucina even if she was bottom tier.

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But Gunner more than makes up for that by having the most batshit zoning game.

>tfw my main is Trash Tier yet again
being a Kirby main is suffering

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Maybe I'm just out of practice because I barely touched SSB4 but Link feels so heavy and slow now. So I like Young Link more.

Play 64 stinky

i knew people were full of shit when they said simon and richter would be high tier. i was analyzing their frame data and stats since their reveal, and though i was off about some things, theres too much going against them to be high tier. their projectile game is decent, but theres nothing like the setups pac-man had in smash 4, i miss doing all that zdrop bullshit. nevertheless im glad my most wanted finally got in after all these years, and he plays perfect for me.

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>K. Rool is more difficult to think what he needs buffs on

Well firstly undo the nerfs they gave him based on shitters crying about Elite Smash K Rool's fucking their shit with gimmicks.

Secondly you can buff him and keep the same "Final boss" playstyle by improving the neutral tools he has. He's not going to get turned into a combo character, he's a character that at mid tier or high tier have neutral advantage while keeping his easy combo-food status so if the opponent does win neutral against him he still gets eaten up with a shit tonne of percentage. The armor is a decent neutral tool but his problem is his anti-air game is shit and his projectiles are slow which relegates him to bottom tier, not to mention the armor is beaten by grab, making it not as much of a neutral advantage as it could be.

Improving crown throw to be less vulnerable on the throw and the catch would be a good balancing start. Making uptilt a bit more active. Tweak those two things and see what happens in conjunction with denerfing the retarded nerfs.

i'm glad Falcon and Robin are low tier so that faggots have no excuse once i tear open their assholes

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Where is Yea Forumskend?

Very very good aerials (Especially neutral and up air)
Waft
Great air mobility
Decent recovery

I play Mii Swordfighter with the dumbass tornado to spin combo that demolishes noobs

I spent one night teamed up with a Falcon while I used Robin and we tore everyone's asses apart.

I do play wolf but I think people are sleeping on rosalina

64 has no competitive scene anymore

Rushdown is strong in Ultimate and that's Rosa's weakness. She's also not as strong as she was in 4. I definitely wouldn't call her awful, though. She's a solid mid-tier.

Sometimes characters I like coincide with being top tier and sometimes they don't.

Not to mention it's not like it's Melee where the depth of the game makes differences between characters more profoundly pronounced. The less complex the game the less deep the gaps become between characters.

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>Was one of the lowest tiered characters in Smash 4
>Got the fewest amount of buffs transitioning to Ultimate
>One of the few characters that got nerfs
Is he proof of Sakurai bias? Why does Sakurai hate him so much?

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When did people start going from "tires don exits" to saying they do exist but you better not play a top tier.

Can we PLEASE get rid of this "if a character is bad, they SHOULDN'T get nerfd at all!" mentality?
It is entirely possible to be mediocre or bad and still have stupid tools. I.E, Bowser and DK's kill confirms in 4 being retarded, and K.Rool's recovery being nonpunishable from the top without heavy disjoints pre-nerf. Am I saying that Bowser and DK were top tier in 4,or that K.Rool was good pre-patch? No, but it's still possible for a bad character to have retarded things

Nah, playing smash for fun is the best way, competitive just drains the fun out of it.

I think the best aspect of smash it's that you choose how to play it.

Nothing K Rool had was retarded. DK still has throw combos in Ultimate and there's nothing wrong with that. If the tools they have that you believe are "retarded" don't even make them beyond low tier then maybe you're just shitty as a player if you're getting trounced by gimmicks.

>Ike is Mid-High tier
Opinion discarded. He's Low-High tier at best and should be averaging out at High-Mid tier. I have yet to see anyone other than MKLeo actually use him well.

Tiers will always exist, saying they don't is a fundamental lack of understanding of how games and meta function. The only possible way "tiers" will not exist in any sort of PvP game is if everyone always played using the same hitboxes, the same moveset/weapons and the same map every single time.

Yeah, and they're extremely easy to gimp. As soon as I got to play them, I realized everyone was overrating the shit out of them. Sure, they're kinda potent in online matches, but that's mostly the nature of online-- it favors projectile characters more. That said, I still enjoy playing as them. Feels like a dream that they're actually playable in a smash game.

don't care who's top or low

ness/lucas are pure cancer to play against

HAHAHAHAHA LIKE JUST GET THEM OFF STAGE HAHAHAHA JUST GIMP THEIR RECOVERIES

not even chess is fully balanced so who cares

Imagine being the devs and playtesters and signing off on this fucking character.

The combination of auto-facing opponent plus 10 input buffer plus b-reverse being a thing really basically fucks the shit out of playing Ryu or Ken. You can be running forward and do a perfect tatsu input and it will send to fucking flying in the opposite direction because the tatsu gets b-reversed. The auto-facing just seems to fucking not always do the right adjustment sometimes it does it immediately but on running away it takes a minutes and that shouldn't even be a feature to begin with. The 10 frame buffer just fucks them eve harder than every other character because they require the most basic of specific inputs and the buffer comes in like "did you mean to hit this combination of inputs in this ridiculously large window and have me interpret what you wanted from that?"

Holy fuck what a way to ruin what could have been cool character inclusions.

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Brawl Falcon is still worse tho.

>Meta Knight
>Mid Mid
What an abhorrent post, holy fuck.

Considering my mains are Kirby, Little Mac and K Rool

Apparently not

I play who I feel like and have fun. You stinkies ruined this series

you can do input specials with the a button too user

Meta Knight is fine as it is, just stop mashing buttons randomy like some heavyweight user lmao

I'm not even good with Wolf but he's the only one I got a 9.9 classic mode with on the first try

>it will send to fucking flying in the opposite direction because the tatsu gets b-reversed

There's actually another level to this if you use the A button. Because the auto-face opponent function isn't perfect and you can still turn around sometimes, what often happens is that if you begin a dash animation the other way trying to throw an EX Hadoken it will then register a tatsu instead. And when you are in a run animation you can turn around momentarily by inputting the opposite direction, so often trying to throw an EX in a run will instead produce that same reversed tatsu.

Playing Ryu or Ken in this game is like having an argument with your character to do as it's told while you're fighting against opponents who can control their characters 1:1. The buffer makes inputs feel so sloppy that it often feels like I'm just mashing the inputs I want and hoping it's reading what I want to come out on the other end.

not to mention that for some reason they seem the saltiest online when getting rekt

Nice trips

also see

>throwing out raw specials like a mongoloid
this is something that actual street fighter players make fun of. the whole idea of the characters is that your normals are cancelable into your specials

>throwing out zoning tools in neutral

Yes user, that's what they're for, and if you'd ever actually watched a Street Fighter match you'd see this done. That's what the hado is for. Please don't embarrass yourself like this again.

>DK and Mii gunner

I'm not I guess.
Any other DK player? Any idea why half the time I cargo -> down/back throw offstage I get something else (like I bthrow but I get a fthrow instead).

How do we fix Kirby?

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This isn't Street Fighter.

I'm saying that tools that are overcentralizing to an otherwise bad character, EVEN IF SAID TOOLS DON'T elevate a character in tiers, are bad design. DK still has throw combos, but they don't easybake kill you at literally 50%. K.Rool's recovery is still very good at snuffing out overhead approaches, but the fact that it covered his entire hitbox above him is poor design, and now that they slightly tweaked that I wouldn't be opposed to him getting some buffs. Imagine if Bowser got all the buffs he did this game and still had the Koo-Pa, retard. That isn't good balance or design, and I'm glad they've been trying to phase it out with Ultimate.

Use C stick instead. Nothing more satisfying than dunking someone under the stage with a dthrow.

the first post was crying about not being able to do a dash up tatsu as ryu. when is this ever a good idea? this is punishable by everything in the game, only hits once, and does very little shield damage. why would you ever not preface this with a normal and hit-confirm the tatsu?? you could do light dtilt light dtilt heavy forward tilt, that would be some explosive shield pressure instead of dash up tatsu. but this guy decides to dash up tatsu and get punished and wonder why his character sucks

>throwing out zoning tools in neutral

Yes user, that's what they're for, and if you'd ever actually watched a Super Smash Brothers match you'd see this done. That's what the hado is for. Please don't embarrass yourself like this again.

Get rid of the startup on his nair. It's a good move that is rendered useless by the startup, making it difficult to approach.

>the first post was crying about not being able to do a dash up tatsu as ryu

Are you illiterate? The first post is talking about how the retarded buffer system turns hados into tatsus in the opposite direction. I thought I said not to embarrass yourself again like this.

>tfw snake and peach main
I also use isabelle, hope she gets a buff or something

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nice bait dummy

>the first post was crying about not being able to do a dash up tatsu as ryu
>what often happens is that if you begin a dash animation the other way trying to throw an EX Hadoken it will then register a tatsu instead

???

You're trying to play Smash like Street Fighter and then complaining that it isn't playing the way you want it to play. You're talking about throwing out a zoning tool in neutral, but neutral in Smash plays way differently compared to other fighters, a way that you aren't used to I'm guessing. Stop trying to act like you know what you're talking about and start playing the game like Smash, not like Street Fighter.

A lot of his moves should have their build-up time cut down a little. NAirs are supposed to be quick and Kirby has one of the slowest ones, in fact, three out of the five arials are pretty slow to start, make his DAir, UAir, and NAir faster, and his ariel game would be nuts

The hammer, his mobility could be just a tad better while using it, nothing crazy, just faster ground movement and like 2 to 4 frames off the delay before a jump

That's honestly all I can think of, he's an arial character without many arial options...oh, and also imrprove his air movement, nothing crazy like Melee Jigs, but something better than now

Little Mac is basically Gimmicks: The Character and they'd have to get massively toned down for him to get buffed out of the gutter. He has so much lopsided power in his kit that it's no wonder his weaknesses are so glaring that he's basically unplayable. It's not that the gimmicks can't be dealt with, they obviously can, but when you're talking about balance it behooves you to not lose perspective.

>You're trying to play Smash like Street Fighter
By using SF inputs that were put in the game? Why put them in the game if they're broken?

The point that's being made is that the buffer system breaks these two characters, and now you're saying not to play these two characters, proving that they're broken and their design is shitty.

>You're talking about throwing out a zoning tool in neutral, but neutral in Smash plays way differently compared to other fighters
So you're saying that in the Super Smash Brothers franchise, zoning does not exist. Characters do not output projectiles in neutral to maintain distance between themselves and their opponents.

You are the stupidest person I have encountered on this board yet today.

I play Snake, and Rool. So no?

youtube.com/watch?v=VRy1Vcqs8f8
Online Event 3 Qualifier Finals

underrated post

Hadouken could be a zoning tool if it didn't have the priority of a wet napkin
It's ridiculous that it can be stuffed out by basically any hitbox in the game

How the fuck is Ness high tier?

Hi user, you're an idiot.

List is completely wrong. Ganon is debatably top tier, at worst high high.

>Tfw elite with robin

>tfw never letting them hit the ground through arcfire and thunder

Isn't that true of all projectiles beside things like chargeshots?

>people still think Puff is shit

The airdodge mechanics alone pull her up to mid tier this time around

get your memes out of here.

Those same airdodge changes also fuck her over.

>Samus below Mewtwo

lol

>high damage output per attack
>can kill most characters between 40-60% with half his moveset
>isn’t top tier
Lol ok, scrub. He can kill you in 3 hits, how is that not top tier?

Hadouken gets it bad because It's only doing 11% (command input with Ryu) at most, and with the way the priority system works literally anything that does 3% or more will clank without it doing damage
Now it might not have been such a problem if it wasn't so laggy, the endlag is literally 1 frame faster than Falco's laser in sm4sh
If they wanted it to be really accurate to SF, the least they could've done it make it intangible to everything except other special moves, the way it is now leaves it too susceptible to getting blown out by any hitbox without having the reward to balance it out

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Main is Snake, secondary is Cloud. I guess I am.

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How do you use Cloud? The second I get out of range of somebody I just get wrecked.

Ganon is not fucking top tier lmao. Try playing offline where you can actually react to his incredibly telegraphed bullshit.

>Low speed
>Needs Revenge to get decent knockback
>Can't recover for shit

This will probably be the highest that Baracat ever gets unless he gets a major buff.

This isn't SF, projectiles aren't supposed to define the neutral, there are lots of projectiles in the game and most of them get stuffed by just attacking them.

have fun getting juggled to death with your grand total of 0 get-off-me moves
mwah

Tell your brother to stop being an autistic bitch when it comes to video games

People have to get out of that ultra-competitive mindset naturally, there's probably not much you can do.

Wish we could set movement to the D-Pad so I didn't have to deal with analog inputs. I also wish I could set tilts or smashes to the D-Pad for other characters.

DORRRYAHHHH

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no way.

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All I'm saying is that for a projectile, Hadouken is too mediocre in its current state and even other basic projectiles like the Mario Bros. fireballs/pills manage to mesh with the rest of their toolkit better

I've watched some tourney K. Rool gameplay, and I feel like a lot of folks are sleeping on his counter and up throw.

If he had just a smidge more speed, it would help, especially with the counter and crown throw

I guess use neutral b more often and short hop airiels.

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Holy shit based those are both of my mains

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any gunner mains

>yesterday
>3m gsp
>today
>358k

how do i unfuck my shit
what am i doing wrong

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I play Gunner the second most behind Palutena, do I count?

Why is LowMid the most based tier

>Rob dominant aerial game
He unironically is one of the most easily juggled, easy to hit in the air, characters in the game. His nair and bair are slow as fuck and his fair is only a poking/combo tool. He’s also big as fuck.

yes, im looking for tips because i just started playing as gunner.

Speaking of this, I wish you could just turn off smash-attacks from its regular input. Whenever I try doing a tilt out of a run I always get a smash-attack instead.

All the cool kids nowadays are using the c-stick for tilts, and I too want to use tilts more often, but I can't not have my smash-attacks set to the c-stick.

Sakurai you hack just give us the option

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>young link that high
HAHAHA

The important thing to do when you start losing a lot is to stop playing for the day. You will never break or 'redeem' a losing streak by playing until you start winning; instead, you'll just get tired and frustrated and lose more fights.

>he leaves tap jump on

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I run a 1111 moveset. the SibeB can be used as a confirm if you use the move from the air, allowing it to lead into charge shot and various other follow ups. Gunner's uTilt is amazing, can combo into uAir at low percents, and if you land before the final hit with them on a platform you can pop them up again with an uTIlt.

Speaking of platforms, Gunner isn't tall enough that all the hits of uSmash will connect if the foe is on a platform, so be wary of that. fSmash is laggy but still really good, don't forget you have it.

never go for dAir unless you're trying to style, it's way too slow to be practical.

here, I also forgot to mention that uTilt is a fantastic kill move, and that a charge shot will break a weakened shield.

You can use missiles if you wanna roll for constant shield breaks, but I personally find the pillar confirms to be better.

Im with the other guy, using a tiny ass projectile with a good amout of endlag in smash would be like throwing a hudoken in an anime fighter, you are just asking to get punished.

Its only good for forcing a frametrap or gimping someone offstage

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good advice, i still feel like i'm doing something critically wrong though
maybe it's because i have no idea how to play with/around shields and grabs

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How the fuck are people meant to play with X and Y jump? Seriously, my muscle memory is so deep with tap jump that I don't think I can unlearn it.

>the highest big guy is in mid
sad

I don't understand how people can play with stick jump on. How do you uptilt or upsmash?

as a DDD main that never played him before Ultimate I think hes pretty good and easily the best super heavy. Isnt he still ranked like 6 slots above DK from tourney results?

i wish luigi was better

Upsmash is easy. Uptilt is actually something I have a lot of issue doing.
Maybe you've got a point, but that's a lot of unlearning I have to do.

Cringe. You're making yourself look like a retard, quit larping like anyone respects you and your shit opinions.

Tell him to get into arenas
Arena is much better then quickplay and he won't find autistic projectile spammers or some other shit that he can't avoid because of lag

Seething.

>cant get elite with samus despite maining her
your brother is gonna need to drop it forever with that complete absence of talent

I think Plant is not that bad once you learn to use his down special to control space.

Simon V Mac is one of my favorite matchups to play as Mac, his super armor and leap attack shit on him any time he tries to use a projectile

thanks this really helped

And yet there are entire projectile based characters in Smash.

Cope

Secondary gunner too.
1331 for me, but a lot of setup are viable

Here's my thought about the specials :
Neutral B : Charge shot and Grenade are both good. I dunno about lasers, I just don't like this one. Personally I use charge shot.
Charge shot is a decent kill move (I mean it's basically samus neutral B), also good because it put some pressure on your opponent like all strong charged move (Samus, DK etc...).
Grenade is insane for safe edgeguarding, you can just throw grenades and they can cover the entire ledge. (not my video, but here's an exemple : youtube.com/watch?v=hCrXRfZ0QO4 )
Both are fine to me, and it comes down to preference.

Side B : Pillar or Missile.
I use missile, good shield pressure, good zoning tool and I play my mii as a zonner, can kill at high percent.
Pilalr is good but I just prefer the missile, I think you can pillar->charge shot so it's a good option.

Up B : I never use 2, distance on this one is just too low. 1 is the one that have the most distance, but your trajectory is pretty limited (basically a straight line). You can gimb people with the hitbox on the move too.
I prefer 3 because it's more unpredictable as you can travel in all direction, you can even change your trajectory mid flight, and the distance is almost the same as 1.

Down B : I use the reflect most of the time. I don't like the vortex, it serve the same purpose at a reflect to me, but can't catch all projectile like the reflector, and it's purely a defensive move, while the reflector is offensive and defensive at the same time.
I've heard about people playing with the bomb, but never got them to work for me. I mean if you know you're playing vs a character with no projectile, I guess it's better.

Her aerial are quite good (except dair). Smash attacks are also very good, fsmash has a lot of range, most people don't know the character, and get catched by the move easily.

>Speaking of this, I wish you could just turn off smash-attacks from its regular input.
literally every smash clone does this except for Ultimate which instead gives you tilts to right stick like anyone wanted that over what you suggested

I never got why laser is even there, Gunner doesn't really have the mobility to run it like Fox does.

Apologize for calling me bad.

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>completely forgot miis have custom moves
oh i have a lot of playing around to do

With much better projectile options than a basic bitch hudoken.

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He's still awful. And I wanted him to be good.

>gunner worse than samus
Gunner is straight up a better samus in every regard, still not good but better than samus for sure

characters that take top 8 at super majors cant be awful

No, but my characters in the higher tiers are unfortunate and now I will have accusations of being one, but fuck it, Inkling, Wario and Ridley are my tops.

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Skilled players > character tiers

Except it's completely fine as a zoning tool for the character. It serves the purpose of pressuring at a distance not up close.

>still not good
I'd argue Gunner is a solid mid tier. Not a better character than Sword, but Gunner isn't terrible either.

>Upsmash
Easy as shit.
>Uptilt
Nearly impossible without a right tilt stick.

It moves super slow, is extra small, has a large telegraph with them shouting the name glowing, and it dosen't even reach halfway across battlefield.

It may be good is sf but its poop in smash

>Rosalina
>Low tier
Rosalina can infinite people in this game; she cannot be considered bottom tier because of such. When these "professional tier list makers" travel to Japan and play against people whose hand coordination skills have no limits they'll quickly change their minds on her placement.

tilting is fucked up in Smash Ultimate

Silence.

So is that why meleelets are pushing the tilt stick meme?

the only thing i wish people would stop is the whole "shulk potential" meme. we already got over this in smash 4. (Same for Yoshi, but at least it seems people are noticing it earlier on)

Skill can only take a character so far

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Tilt sticks are mostly for doing tilts out of dash. Its pretty easy to just let go of the left stick then flick it in a direction, but trying to gently do that flick is pretty hard out of dash

Snake should be up one tier.

It's not the best projectile in the game and a buff would be fine, but it serves its function. The only problem with it is that the buffer system fucks the inputs in certain situations.

>people still haven't figured out how to consistently awaken kirby's hidden chakra

sheik is the worst character in the game

The only reason to use it in neutral is to force a jump. And most people are not going to fall for it because it deals no shield damage or stun so getting a follow up grab with the endlag is near impossible.

The way you use it imo is to do a small combo and at the end throw it out to bait out the double jump. If the stage has no overhead platfroms they have to eat the hudoken or take a shoryuken when they try to land.

>mfw spending numerous manhours on Yea Forums arguing about tiers then almost exclusively playing with 4+ other human beings on random maps with hazards, items, stage morph and Final Smash meters on

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I HATE LUCINA! NERF HER!

WHO Little Mac HERE?

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I want to use him but I just can't figure him out. Also I hate his recovery.

Have sex

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How do we fix him, anons?

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make his fair combo into itself at low percents

>mid high
>mid mid
>mid mid
>low
I think I'm okay.
I never understood the bitching about tier whoring or playing defensively in this game. Smashfags seem to complain about these things way more than normal fightan players.

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most of Yea Forums realizes how bad they are at fighting games and know their opinions dont matter, smash fags dont have this insight and think tiers matter in their 2mil GSP FFA matches

God fucking dammit why can't i turn off the normal way smash attacks work?
The way the buffer works in this game makes c stick aerials impossible and you have to go back and forth from c stick to a button and it's fucking annoying

Im aware the game isnt balanced but I choose the characters I feel have the options I play the best with

Lucas and his Aerials and Falcon with his UpB for breaking defenses

Theyre kind of my goto duo.

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>The way the buffer works in this game makes c stick aerials impossible

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Lucas's aerials are shit though

>mfw I want to main Little Mac

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You’re objectively wrong though. Mega Man is a good character who’s decently balanced. Just because you lose with him doesn’t mean he’s bad.

Nah, I main Samus, followed by the FROG and Mario

>He doesn't know about the secret Japanese Duck Hunt Techniques

Your point? I like how they connect. The sharp Fair, The satisfying Backair meteor, the multidownairs and the quick multineutrals
They could be shit, but I feel theyre good enough options for different situations and I can often get in with them.

Translation: My character isnt busted and ridiculously braindead, therefore he's bad.

i bet joker is gonna be overpowered as shit.

I like characters with interesting projectiles, so I go for Robin/Palu/MiiGun.

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Of course he will be in the first two weeks when nobody knows how to deal with him.

After that, he'll be like every other smash character.

his data was already leaked

>Bayonetta
>Cloud
It's gonna happen again, user.

They honestly don't really work. Their projectile game isn't even that good, most other projectile characters have fast projectiles and because theirs have so much startup the Belmonts pretty much have to give it up and try to get in, which they are bad at doing.

You hit hit a lot with the cross yeah, but how are you actually going to kill? They don't have reliable kill options. All of them are either very unsafe and mean you either get punished or give up pressure entirely for trying, or they require the opponent to make a mistake and walk into them for them to work (Axe, holy water). They can't go offstage to gimp well either. If you play a Belmont you will frequently be smacking some guy at 160% with ftilts or whatever struggling to actually KO him while you get gimped at 50% for going off the stage once.

They need something. As is they're pretty dysfunctional which is a shame.

I'm a tier whore purely by proxy of character I mained in every game I played finally becoming top tier.

Rosalina is very mediocre. Ultimate mechanics do her no favor at all. She no longer has her broken nair, amazing Luma knockback, and desync jabs.

>Bayonetta
>Cloud
As I said, like every other Smash character.

why are there 4 high tiers?

Like really, I feel these tier lists at this point are "flavor of the month by top players"

I swear one day some rando with Piranha Plant is gonna win tourneys and suddenly everyone is gonna cry "pls nerf, character is broken, muh top tier".

I guess you never played SSB4.

because the vast majority of players in any games are scrubs witha fragile ego, if they pick a top tier then they wont have an excuse when they lose, and their ego cant handle that, I will always respect someone who cuts the bullshit and picks to win and improve then some shitter who picks an underplayed character to cheese a win with a gimmick no one is prepared for because they see the character once every 500 games

Not competitively no, so I never dealt with ultra brainless 0-death gameplay.

All that extra weight from TP Zelda slowed her down

>Unironically haven't seen a single Rosalina
Jesus Christ, she used to be top tier I thought, is she really that bad? Fuck did they do to her?

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It's still to early to even have that many sections in tier list. It's absolutely ridiculous

The colors are telling. From Top to High Mid it clearly means "top players have actually used this characters", and below that is "I don't know this character"

She's gained some dtilt tricks and the characters that shit on her in 4 got nerfed. I'm saying she's mid tier rather than the bottom.

Why does everyone but Incineroar run faster than Robin? Why would anyone think that's a good idea, hes not even heavy

>DK, Incineroar male corrin

Not really.

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>incineroar
>corrin
i like you

>he hasn't ridden the mii sword fighter train yet
Hoo boy

No, but my friend is and he's an insufferable faggot when we play smash.

>Player skill>Tiers
to an extent

>another game of G&W being low-tier
we'll get there someday, bros

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you losing has nothing to do with them or us

They really need to work on his fair. It seems pretty neat on paper, but in practice it sucks ass.

G&W has the advantage of having a really bizarre matchup that nobody knows how to deal with since nobody plays him

WOW

god i miss the absolute train that was the old hitbox on the fair

although his bucket is so good now that I can't complain about that and the lack of windboxes

Tall, slow, combo bait, mediocre recovery-- he's really not that good.

>Yoshi
>Ike

Kind of, I guess? I just like how Yoshi plays in this game, he feels a lot like a Melee spacie. Ike is also cool as shit and has been one of my main dudes since Brawl, even if everyone hates him this game because of his nair

The easiest way to spot people shit at the game is when they bitch about Ganon

To be fair he was literally unfinished in Melee, and was actually really damn good in Brawl. He’s really good in P:M too if you care about that

>lmao let’s make a move that other characters can spam infinitely unto limited use
>also let’s act like it has no priority until it lands still anyways

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>low mid
>mid mid
>high mid
>low high
>mid high
>high high
don't even play smash, but wow that autism.

>"She's so good! So much better than MY main!"
She unironically is and that statement is probably true for 95% of the roster. She's already made a few top 8s of notable tournaments in the first 2 months against people with thousands of hours of practice on their mains in previous games. Keep in mind pre-nerf bayonetta and cloud in tr4sh did not ever place in top 8s for 6 entire months and didn't start winning for over a year after release, each.

Are you dense or something? This isn’t unique to smash, it’s a way to categorize large groups.

In 2D fighting games you have to be a tier whore or die if you ever want to be competitive because the games are too simple. They dont have enough universal mechanics to make everybody work.

Now Tekken on the other hand..

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_middle_class
?

it's convoluted as fuck

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It’s categorizing topics categories to be more specific.
Are just that stupid to think using 2 words is too complex

More air speed

go back

give him DDD"s swallow but with double range, instant uppper mid tier

At least his recovery is better now.

I just fucking love to see Wolf get beaten up. Sub Wolf turns me on.

>Lucas and Falcon
My nigga

Literally me. I use tilts on the right stick.

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I play G&W so no

Why is Lucina Top tier and Marth is only Low High tier? They're the exact same fucking character.

Because in this time Lucina's consistency wins out over Marth's Tipper power.

Yeah it’s very good now but also he doesn’t start with Levin Sword for literally no reason

What the hell are her kill moves anyway?

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I don't get that either. The only thing that makes sense to me is the devs think its better to start with bronze to build up damage before trying to KO with Levin. I could see that being their reasoning.

guess im mid high according to your list

apparently not

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wii fit trainer is my wife

Your wife is hot

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