What in the actual fuck happend between Square and Nintendo to make Final Fantasy the most unrepresented franchise in...

That is exactly right. Square's justification for abandoning Nintendo hardware almost completely has always rung hollow.

Nice revisionism zoom zoom
It's only because of that shitty movie, the spirits within, that they went almost bankrupt.

I'm more annoyed that we again only got the two pieces of music from FF7. Capcom gave us millions of tracks and then even more new medleys and remixes, Square gave the battle and boss battle music from 1997, content that was already from Smash 4's DLC.

It's either Square wanting too much money or the composers wanting too much money. Or both.

this is the worst post in Yea Forums right now

The Virigin Cloud

vs

THE CHAD MEGAMAN or THE CHAD SIMON

>Before
>Nintendo: hey u wanna do some collab shit
>Square-Enix: sure why not but pls treat ip with respect

>After:
>Nintendo: hey u wanna
>Square-Enix: [screeches like a pterodactyl] NO!!1 (gets more greedy)
>Nintendo: okay okay *removes Geno in recent M&Lremake and make less focus on Square shit*
>Square: btw can u pls put FFVII and rest on Switch?
>Nintendo: wtf

I think japs are just becoming jews when it comes to music. Look at DQ using midi for everything in the games and selling the soundtrack separately.

Serves them right. Shouldn't have been there in the first place.

It's probably Square. I feel like Uematsu would be all for his music being featured in Smash

>Doing so led to bankruptcy of the company, the leaving of Final Fantasy creator Hironobu Sakuguchi alongside a good portion of the talent behind Final Fantasy, and the slow decline of the Final Fantasy brand

you forgot to mention the entire decade of them absolutely smashing vag left right and centre before he left to make a handful of games literally figuratively no one has even heard of

Should've been Black Mage t.b.h. Dude was already in 2 Mario crossovers.

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It's more that Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy music has really weird and convoluted copyright claims by the people who made it.

For example, I saw a video on youtube reviewing DQ11 and mentioned at the very start that Square warned them when they gave them a review copy that they would have to work around music copyright issues to even play tracks from the game in any review video they did. The workaround that Square told them they could do? They had to play separate footage in a small corner of the screen showing scenes where the music they play in the main video would play ordinarily, because playing music from the game outside of its original context is forbidden for some reason.

>They had to play separate footage in a small corner of the screen showing scenes where the music they play in the main video would play ordinarily, because playing music from the game outside of its original context is forbidden for some reason.

jesus

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Sakurai barely got Square to agree to let Cloud in. Square wanted them to put in someone more recent, like Lightning or Noctis. Black Mage wouldn't have stood a chance.

youtube.com/watch?v=ajBPgu75Khs

See for yourself.

Wow that's retarded.

>the greatest & most timeless one in the eyes of everyone is FF6
Are you off your meds, grandpa? The modern public couldn't give less of a fuck about FF6. Even the people who got introduced to the saga through FF7 are boomers now.

Sad.

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Square will give nintendo back the rights to Geno, it's why there's so little emphasis on FF in ultimate.

There are countless FF characters that had more history with Nintendo and deserved better to be in Smash, Cloud was the easy and lazy way out both Nintendo and Square chose. And seeing Joker, it looks like they learned nothing.

Square wanted Lightning or Noctis to be in Smash, they didn't want Cloud and Sakurai had to fight to get Cloud in.

If I remember right, Sakurai went with Cloud specifically because he figured Cloud would have the best chance for an older Final Fantasy character that was popular and beloved enough and he barely got him in as it was.

Noctis would've been way more interesting as a fighter, though.

gib stories

What is the point in making up a lie like this? Especially when the history is well documented.

I heard the composer for Dragon Quest is some sort of Japanese supremacist or something about thinking Japan dindu nuffin during WW2.

This is your brain on 'nintendo', kids.
Don't ever let this happen to you

Compare P5 sales to other games in the series user. Joker is the most well-known protag the same way Cloud was.

Square is run by absolute morons. It has nothing to do with choosing Sony over Nintendo or any kind of bad blood. Square's leadership is just fucking incompetent and oblivious to their own shortcomings.

holy shit, the amount of sony seething this post made is beautiful

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They chose the most marketable character from the series. Sure someone like the Warrior of Light from FF1 or Aleph from SMT2 would make more "sense" but not if they want to get as much money as possible.

Uematsu’s a known asshole who has an iron vice-grip on any and all things FFVII and below when it comes to music, assets, etc, not even Square can negotiate around his bullshit. He’s the equivalent of the old man who yells at kids to get off his lawn & slams the door in the face of the neighbors bringing him a casserole because they just happen to be black.

>because they just happen to be black

sounds pretty based, honestly. fuck niggers

Now this make me very doubtful if Erdrick or any SE character is even the next fighter for the Smash Pass. If SE is so extremely greedy about FF rep in Smash then why all of a sudden they are ok with DQ or another SE game like Kingdom Hearts being in Smash?

Square hate money.

Based. Would bring him a bottle of wine.

probably has something to do with nintendo wanting cloud and square instead wanting to give out current garbage like noctis

It's a third party character.
Also Final Fantasy is overrated as fuck.

Sakurai said Cloud was the most voted FF character, so he went with that.

And that is the crux of the problem. They chose easy money rather than common sense, destroying what Smash was supposed to be and transforming into a generic "ultimate showdown of ultimate destiny" because lulz. And people gulped that shit happily.

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>easy money rather than common sense, destroying what Smash was supposed to be
I'm sure Captain fucking Falcon, a guy who races cars for a living, is common sense inclusion for an all stars game, huh?

Yes because he's from a Nintendo IP.

>It's a third party character.
As opposed to every other character... oh wait

never listen to ballots or the fanbase because they're fucking retarded

if we listened to them we'd get all the safe boring choices everyone expects instead of the wacked out shit like game and watch, wii fit trainer and piranha plant that make the game into the unholy clusterfuck it is instead of some fandom wank death battle: newgrounds edition

Some people blamed Uematsu for only two tracks, but by now it should be clear he isn't the issue, due to the lack of spirits that have nothing to do with him.

Even beforehand, the lack of trophies for the summons back in the Wii U game was kind of odd too.

The Enix and Square sides are pretty independent from each other. Just look at how traditional the DQ series still is while FF continued heavily revamping itself ever game.

Aside from that, they'd be interested in promoting DQ outside of Japan.

Square is stingy as fuck with their IPs.
IIRC Cloud almost didn't make it into Smash Ultimate because Square almost didn't want to let Nintendo use him again for whatever reason, they probably demanded more money. This is also the reason we only have two songs, because I guess Square charges too much for their shit.
It makes me skeptical about how likely it is that we'll actually get a DQ character, or a second Square rep in general.

I know someone who worked close to reggie. Here is the bomb:
As many of you may already know eidos is now owned by SquareEnix.
And they already used a ff char like cloud.
I know for sure that one of the new characters will be KAIN from legacy of kain.
Yes, him not raziel.
Raziel will only be an assist.

I can go further and even tell you what are the moves of both.

Raziel will uses his shifting power to distort the aspect of the map while some times he also could use the sun gliph to make the screen completely white for some time.
When he enters the map is awesome. It seems like he is entering from the spectral realm through a portal.

Kain will have an alt costume of him in human form.

Here is the moveset.

Grab: he use telekinesis to grab the enemy.the range of this move is like young link's hook. Some effect will tell that it's coming so people will be able to avoid it.
Forward b is a grab followed by some bites that will regen some percentage of health while dealing damage.
Down b charges the soul reaver.the sword will have some sort of spirit flames around it.then when down b is pressed again kain will strike a fatal blow and the charge will be gone.
B neutral is some sort of kinetic shot.useful for edgeguarding.
Up B is him vanishing with a storm of bats.and then reappearing in the position choosen.quite like mewtwo.
FINAL SMASH he trhow up the enemy and then storm it with a bunch of hits.the last one send the enemy on the ground while he says "Vae Victis!"
Normal moves are all about him using the sword.like marth he does more damage with the tip.

Reveal trailer will be one of the rep of castelvania (actually i still don t know which one) that enters the castle of dracula thinking he ll be facing him but instead finds kain on dracula's throne.
Map will be the pillars.both uncorrupted and corrupted.it will change during the fight.the elder god will be there as stage hazard.Sometimes you can see the ghost woman poking behind the pillars.

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>They wanted him as DLC again
I love final fantasy and cannot wait for this company to sputter and die

>the composers wanting too much money
well i'd say between shimomura, hamauzu and uematsu that they fucking deserve it

In preproduction, Final Fantasy VII was supposed to be a SNES game, and was supposed to showcase computer graphics ala Donkey Kong Country to the point it was estimated to use a 64 Megabits cartridge (making it the largest SNES games, overtaking competitors Tales of Phantasia and Star Ocean, which were both 48 Megabits). Of course, instead of being the pinnacle of the SNES it was intended to be, they were enticed by Sony and the game was retooled to be a showcase of the PlayStation hardware. Nintendo never completely forgave them.

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Then explain why every swordfighter's final smash is literally Cloud's omnislash?

Square has a love-hate relationship with Nintendo.

>Legacy of Kain is kill
Why even live?

Not true.
Mii Swordfighter, every FE character except Ike, Link, Meta Knight, and Shulk all don't use omnislash-esque moves.

Completely wrong fuckboi, they NEARLY went bankrupt because of that shitty movie Spirits Within and their constant push for "American" titles that don't sell in America because it turns out most people want Japanese RPGs from them

I 100% believe this, the Japanese are complete assholes when it comes to copyright, especially of it's an overseas thing even online. Team 4 Star and Toei come to mind recently and the actor for Goku in English actually wants the government to "do something about it" so people don't "disrespect and abuse" DB because it means so much to him. Fuck that guy

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user, this is wrong on so many levels.

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Fuck tryhard Cloud users.

>say something everyone has been saying for months
>claim to work for SE
I don't get the mentality here

No square let him choose and SE proposed terra but sakurai said cloud and SE said ok

should've been nocto
his moveset potential is more varied than pretty much any other ff character

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you guys know uematsu composed Brawl right?

u got moar info on this?

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That was just a prototype they did using ff6 characters not actually ff7 on snes, ff7 itself started proper on ps1

unseen64.net/2008/04/11/final-fantasy-7-beta/

>tfw sequel never
I mained the fuck out of Ninja

With it looking pretty likely that the rumor was true about SE trying to get Cloud to be DLC again, people are speculating that the only way they could twist SE's arm into letting Cloud in the base roster is by giving them another DLC slot.

>tfw I recently learned that Masayoshi Soken did the music for Hoops and Sports Mix
It's amazing how many things went so right for those games.

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Could someone give me the real rundown? Why did Square basically give Nintendo a middle finger after FFVI? Why are their relations still fairly sour and why does Square feel like one of the most overprotective companies of their IP out there?

God damn it hurts that we'll never get another title, Sports Mix doesn't count. The controls on the DS were absolute perfection and it could only be replicated on the 3DS but now that system's gone and we'll never see another successor.

If I recall, it came down to censorship, disc space vs cartridge space, and Nintendo's general attitude to third parties.
Over the years, it seems like their relationship is more stable, but I'd honestly put the FF representation down to Square being Square or aggressive Japaneseness. I mean, FF got zero spirits in the game: none of the other VII characters, no characters from other games, not even the summons from Midgar.

Music composer for Dragon Quest is a nutjob, he managed to rope Enix into a stupid contract where he basically has unlimited control. They could tell him to fuck off, but then DQ loses all of its iconic music and sounds, which is a worse fate then just waiting for the guy to die.

i have real japanese friends, and they all like FF more than DQ. you people lied.

After a generation has grown up on Iwata, people have forgotten just how ruthless the Yamauchis actually were in running their business.

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By all accounts Square are cunts. Apparently they didn't even want Cloud in the base game.

>Konami doesn't give a fuck about their IPs and gave Nintendo anything they wanted for CastleVania stuff

on the other hand

>Konami doesn't give a fuck about their IPs and gave Nintendo anything they wanted for CastleVania stuff.

The thing I usually hear him in full denial about is the Rape of Nanking.

Ask Tony Jay

But it never happened

the thing is that they'd pick stupid shit like lightning and noctis so you'd end up with the FE situation of swordsmansaturation

It basically took until the Enix merger before Square finally developed for Nintendo again. They even sat out the entire explosion of the Game Boy post-pokemon. The first Square game was Tactics Advance in 2003. They went all in on handhelds after that point, but aside from a bunch of Crystal Chronicles shovelware on Wii, they haven't supported a Nintendo home console until the Switch. Octopath was a landmark title, being the first home console new IP on a Nintendo console in decades.

Who cares? They're giving one of the few series I actually give a damn about out of the stupid franchise a second chance at life. Square can do whatever the fuck they want.

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noctis uses every weapon type from guns to lances to shields to broadswords to daggers to crosbows to katana to maces to grearsword to shuriken to machines to to trident to magic to his armiger abilities and warping

The composers for the games own the music, this is why you get only two tracks in Midgar. Square also sees Cloud as some sacred cow and there's but so much you can do with him. I can imagine someone at Square getting pissy because Cloud showed too much emotion with the Curry item, when FFVII Cloud had a variety of emotions and even smiled. On the other hand, I like that someone is giving Sakurai some grief given his own diva-like qualities so it balances itself out. Could have been another Nintendo character.

I got a buddy who worked customer service/game mastering for FFXI/XIV. Is Matt Hilton as much of a piece of shit cunt as my buddy says?

The sad part is that Smash probably treats Cloud better as a character than Square does
>That seasick reference in Cloud's trailer

Nintendo was really pushing for cartridges again for the N64. Square was trying to tell Ninty why cartridges should be dropped in favor of discs, but they weren't hearing it and were supposedly shitty about it (not a surprise, given how they treated third-parties up until that point). Square got pissed and jumped ship to Sony, who offered them a better deal and disc technology. Square ALSO became a driving force in convincing other third-party publishers (like Enix) to forget Ninty's Draconian practices and switch to a different company. Yamauchi got super pissed and wouldn't allow Square in the Nintendo building for years

best girl for smash

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Would have been far more impactful if they'd managed to get FF7 up and running as a DS game. Compress the cutscenes a bit and it would have fit.

Not that I really care much about Cloud being in the game or not, but it's pathetic how stingy Square is about letting the game include Final Fantasy stuff.
>Two music tracks
>Two Spirits, both Cloud
At that point, why even bother?

>the Nintendo Playstation was a thing for a minute
Square made the right call for the time desu. Hard to imagine how the industry would look if they hadn't divorced. Maybe it was a good thing in the long run. I can't see Nintendo of that era allowing some of the more violent franchises (like RE) to take off.

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>No Battle on the Big Bridge
>No Decisive Battle (FFVI)
>No One-Winged Angel
>No Trisection

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In hindsight, it was a good thing. Disc space got reserved for forty-second FMV's that take up a third of the space and the second disc was simply because there wasn't enough space for all of the FMV's in a game. Meanwhile, Rare managed to make the same quality games with less to work with. I'd wager they mastered the N64 better than Nintendo. Plus, carts last way longer than some discs. Earlier discs couldn't even be read at some point or the disc reader was strained from them.

chrom can use lances
ike can use axes
noctis is primarily shown with a sword in all his promo art so you know they'd just do some boring shit with swords only, even if it would be cool as shit for him to look weaponless and just whip different ones out for his different attacks

including the fishing rod

What is the fucking need to lie about this?
FF7 would've taken 52 cartridges to fit on N64, that's why PS1 was chosen.

Wasn't the entire game and script on each of the three FFVII disks? It was literally just the different FMV's that required disk swapping.

That looks like an aesthetic console i want one

Sean Schemmel is a fucking asshole. What a goddamn elitist.

He thinks it's such a big deal that he's "the main guy on the show" trying to hide the fact that DBZ is literally the only thing that's giving him a steady paycheck/role in the industry.

It was. If you lost one disc or it got ruined, you were fucked.

I agree. With how hard Nintendo was pushing the family-friendly image at the time, it would be hard to imagine a world where games like Silent Hill could exist on a Nintendo platform.

Unless they would make it for Saturn, where it would fall into obscurity and be worth $700 today

DQ is actually made by Horii's Armor Project and published by Enix.

That's not Yuffie.

>Imagine seething so bad over a video game company deciding to not make games for your favorite console that you actually attempt to shitpost about it two decades later

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What's the best way for square to get the rights back for their music?
>inb4 killing the guy

BUT VIRGINBITCH SAID-

why is the smash version of cloud the best looking version we've ever seen? same goes for ryu and ken

Supposedly Square wanted Cloud as DLC again but the only way they agreed to have him in base is to leave a DLC slot for them for another character.
Which is why people believing another square character, because square Enix wants it as DLC.

Third party characters make more money for said third parties when they are DLC compared to being in the base roster

Sakurai designed them to be more like their original selves but upgraded

Hell, Ryu now has SF5 elements and still looks great.

Someone at Nintendo liked Cloud/FFVII more than anyone at Square liked Nintendo.

Exactly what they tried to make Superbot do.

Square Enix is video game Disney

>over 20 years later they are still seething about FFVII

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also don't forget cloud has a japanese va because his english va has some shit in his contract where he's the only one who can ever voice cloud in english and because of some shit with the voiceacting union he wasn't able to take the job to voice cloud

and due to the previous shit about how only he can voice cloud he couldn't even do it under a pseudonym

>Cloud in Smash is the biggest thing to happen to Final Fantasy VII in years.
This is literally the only believable thing in your entire post

well there's only like one left existing in the world so it might be a little expensive
engadget.com/2015/11/06/nintendo-playstation-is-real-and-it-works/

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Squaresoft wanted FFVII to be their biggest project yet but they knew they couldnt pull it off on cartridges unless they charged 200$ per game so they went to Nintendo to Nintendo to either get them to switch to CD's or get cheaper cartridge prices
Nintendo under Yamauchi followed the company motto of ''my way or the highway''
so they took the highway straight into Sony who not only had a disc based console that was easy to develop for but they also offered to publish the game worldwide with a fierce marketting campaign
the rest is history

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The punchline is that developer costs were cheaper on the PSX and that CDs offered more disc space.

To fully understand the rift, you have to understand where many companies thought the industry was headed circa 1996-1997 and Japanese culture.

We roll back the clock and there was a bit of a debate on the direction of vidya in general back in the mid 90s. With the popularity and storage space of CDs paired with 3D gaming on the horizon, many developers believed that vidya would become a merge between games and cinematic experiences, not unlike most of the AAA games you see today. There were others, mainly Nintendo, who believed that games should remain separate from movies and that the disadvantages of CDs (loading times and easier piracy) outweighed the gain of being able to put movies into vidya.

ff7 made them so much money they had no idea what to do with it all. The real problem is that they suffered from victory disease. They had no idea how to top ff7 and it became pretty stale from there

>even in the 90s sony wanted to replace their games with movies
War never changes.

>Hard to imagine how the industry would look if they hadn't divorced.
In all likelyhood, the universe where Nintendo struck a working deal with Sony for the SNES-CD is probably the same one where Sega said screw it and struck a deal with Microsoft to make the Xbox an actual Dreamcast successor.

cont'd
So with Square in the "vidya is going to merge with cinema" camp and Nintendo in the "games are games and movies are movies" camp, the two companies parted ways.

The other piece of the puzzle is Nintendo's controlling business practices and the fear of piracy. That is something that has plagued them as a company not only with Square, but with other 3rd party developers in general. Nintendo underestimated the impact of development costs for cartridges vice CDs, and never fully recovered. There's a reason that virtually every 3rd party has jumped ship from developing games for Nintendo, even when the Wii sold so well, and it's not because of "muh better graphics" on Sony and Microsoft's platforms. It's because of the way that Nintendo of Japan does business and enters agreements with its partners.

If they were smart they'd whore out Cloud for crossovers like crazy like Capcom does with Ryu.

funny how ffvii is now coming to a cartridge system over 20 years later

Sega started it actually

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cont'd
Square wanted to get into the movie business so badly that they even went so far as to make Final Fantasy movies that were piles of shit, and were a large reason why they had financial trouble.

And still isn't on cartridge

It makes the ad posted here: even funnier

>Square was offered millions of dollars to support Playstation instead of Nintendo.
no, they were offered a system that could actually run the game they wanted to make, unlike nintendo.
they even tried to develop ff7 for both ps1 and n64 at the same time initially, but they just couldn't make it work with the n64's cartridges.
>Doing so led to bankruptcy of the company
no, what led to square almost going bankrupt was making that retarded hollywood movie that flopped. playstation had nothing to do with it.
>Square doesn't want to admit that Playstation was a mistake and constantly (Desperately) tries to act as if they don't need Nintendo
square and nintendo squashed the beef way back in 2003 when crystal chronicles came out. lots of ff spinoffs come out on nintendo consoles, and now they're getting ports of the classics too.
the only reason nintendo consoles still don't get new mainline final fantasy games is because they aren't powerful enough to run them.

at least 10 and 10 2 are

Isn't it digital download only?

the "easy and lazy way out" for persona would have been choosing yu from p4, not joker.

to be fair, persona 5 is the ffvii of persona games

like most third parties, square got sick of sacrificing their artistic vision to fit on nintendo's cartridges - all so nintendo could charge them exorbitant licensing fees and exert control over the production and manufacturing of their games.
when sony entered the market, they were offering a fair deal for third parties as well as the cheaper cd format. when nintendo decided to triple down on cartridges with the n64, it became a no-brainer for everyone to switch to sony.

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I still wonder just how impossible FFVII would have been on N64.

FFVII on PS1 is 1.36GB divided over 3 Disks
Resident Evil 2 on PS1 is 1.20GB divided over 2 Disks.

Capcom actually managed to shrink RE2 down to fit on a 512 megabit N64 cart, even managing to have better looking character models and higher quality music samples.

I'm sure if Square wanted to, they could have managed it.

FF7 had way more FMVs.

As has been pointed out previously in this thread, Capcom are actually competent unlike Square.

FFVII was already heavily condensed onto the 3 PS1 discs it came with while RE2 was a much smaller game that had a dedicated porting team behind it

How much of that 1.36GB is FMVs and duplicate code I wonder.

That is fucking hilarious, but is it an edit or real? I'm leaning fowards real but you never know.

People give Square a lot of shit, especially in a post 13 and 15 world, but they are a key element of how gaming evolved. Plus they actually try and fix their shit. 14 was trash; rather than cut their losses they apologise and spend the time and money (allegedly money raised by XIII-2 and LR) fixing it and turn it into one of the biggest MMOs currently going with a story up there with previous titles.

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>In hindsight, it was a good thing.
deciding to stick with cartridges for the n64 is the moment nintendo went from industry leader to permanent also-ran. it was a poor decision motivated by short-sighted greed, and they've never really recovered from it. how on earth was it "a good thing" for nintendo in hindsight?

That's certainly an opinion you are having. Personally I think VIII and IX were just as good in their own ways. While overall I like VIIs cast more, I much prefer the world and aesthetic of VIII for example, and prefer Squall to Cloud. It's the rest of the cast that lifts VII up and drops VIII a little.

I remember loving the shit out of X around its release, and even playing X-2 a lot, but somehow it just never stuck with me the same. XI was an amazing experience and I'm actually resubbed for the first time in years, just going through the story as a level 119 god-character. XII bored me as a teen, but it's one I'm interested in replaying.

XIII is pretty but shallow, XIV(ARR onwards) is another success story and a blast, and I honestly feel like XV gets too much shit considering it's 'complete' form.

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FFVII is also a much bigger game than RE2.

> I still wonder just how impossible FFVII would have been on N64.

Not quite sure. In the beginning of CD games, developers were not good at efficiently working with memory - you could always just use more CDs, even if the assets were redundant or inefficient.

When developers put FMVs into games in the 90s, they were basically small movie files that were extremely inefficient in memory usage. Pair that with the fact that most PSX games were actually faux-3D with a polygon/pixelated character moving around a jpeg background, whereas the N64 was the first true 3D system where even the backgrounds were rendered by the system and cutscenes used in-game rendered graphics. This actually saved substantial memory space from the design standpoint.

The desire to reduce loading times, get everything on 1 CD, and the ability for the PS2 to actually process fully rendered 3D helped improve the efficiency of memory allocation.

This is a long way of saying that FF7 probably doesn't need to be 1.6 GB if it were made today with similar quality graphics, but running on hardware that could use in-game rendered backgrounds and cut-scenes.

The VIRGIN Smash Cloud vs The CHAD Tekken Noctis

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re2 is a terrible comparison. it's a much smaller game in a completely different genre.
there's a reason why the n64 got almost no jrpgs during its lifetime. most major home-console jrpgs at the time were sprawling multi-disc affairs that could have never fit on a cartridge. it's not even just final fantasy - there's no way dragon quest vii could have ever been made for the n64, for instance.

>no Bombing Mission
>no Crazy Motorcycle Chase
>no J-E-N-O-V-A
Even just within FF7 there are a good number of tracks that should've been gimmes.

based

RE2 actually isn't that amazing to have fit on N64, since it was supposed to be a single disc game, but ended up releasing with two discs because someone miscalculated the size of the game's audio when it was close to release.
FFVII definitely would have been impossible, it was a bigger game that actually needed those three discs, mainly because of all the FMVs.

FF8 sold 7 million and FF9 sold 5 million copies. The series was a financial success for them.

Square tanked because they thought that weeboo vidya games would make good movies. They were wrong.

>TeamFourStar
Weirdly enough, Square-Enix apparently gave TFS full permission to use FF VII's soundtrack for FF VII Machinabriged - under the condition that SE takes a cut of their profit.

>noctis
>chad
He's literally a virgin.

>there's a reason why the n64 got almost no jrpgs during its lifetime. most major home-console jrpgs at the time were sprawling multi-disc affairs that could have never fit on a cartridge. it's not even just final fantasy - there's no way dragon quest vii could have ever been made for the n64, for instance.

The N64 got no jrpgs for the same reason that they got very few 3rd party games in general - the development costs were too high.

When you are a game publisher, you don't really give a shit about how pretty your game looks. Your primary job is to make a product that turns a profit. Making games for the N64 wasn't profitable not because of graphical limitations (the N64 actually had better in-game graphics than the PSX and there are more N64 games that you can stomach replaying today), but because of limited N64 sales paired with substantially higher development costs.

along with the ports coming to switch, ps4 and xbone the ps4/switch (rip xbone) will get old nintendo exclusives crystal chronicles and chocobo dungeon.

Maybe they couldn't get a cut of the profits (or as much as they wanted) for leasing Cloud to Smash?

Definitely real. Back in the 90s the advertising campaigns were really aggressive and really tried to cut the competition down. Look at Sega with it's BLAST PROCESSING while Nintendo is slow as molasses. Hell, look at Sony at E3 1995, at the last minute they scrapped their presentation and gave this in response to Sega's $399 Saturn pricetag.
youtube.com/watch?v=ExaAYIKsDBI

just to clarify, i wasn't saying graphics had anything to do with it. the problem was the size and scope of jrpgs at the time, which far exceeded the capacity of an n64 cartridge. couple that with the $19 nintendo tax on every cartridge, and it was simply unrealistic for anyone to make jrpgs for the n64.

Uematsu is what makes the situation so bizarre. If you go into Ultimate's music section and check Brawl's theme, Uematsu is credited for composing it; but if you check either tracks for FF VII, his name is nowhere to be found.

Old N64 games don't have the problem I mentioned earlier with multi-disc games; if you lose one disc, you're fucked if you try to replay it from the start along with carts being more durable. It also showed what games were worthwhile and what games had a bunch of fluff spread around it. While you don't have too many RPG's for the N64, you got enough action/adventure games that you could put the same amount of time in. Expensive? Yes. Long-lasting? Yes.

Chrom legit has more rep then Final Fantasy I swear.

Size and scope weren't really a factor. FFVII is a bunch of JPEG's with very crude 3D models and MIDI music.

Take away the FMV's and the N64 would have no trouble at all running FFVII. The movies ate up the space, not the game itself.

> the problem was the size and scope of jrpgs at the time

Nah. The real issue is that FMVs were in vogue in the 90s. And FMVs in the 90s weren't rendered using in-game engines, they were movie files recorded from high-powered workstations. This used up a LOT of memory.

Thing is, you didn't HAVE to make jrpgs with FMV cutscenes. FFVI on SNES takes 40-60 hours to beat on the first play-through. You don't think companies could have made something similar for the N64?

Nintendo wasn't on board with having FMVs in their games, which is one of several reasons they stuck with cartridges. But the real reason that developers stayed away was the cost of development and the thinner margins on sales, aside from other shitty Nintendo business practices that people got sick of.

>Maybe they couldn't get a cut of the profits
Given the rumor that SE wanted Cloud to be DLC again for Ultimate, that sounds possible. Apparently, in order to bring back Cloud for Ultimate, Sakurai had to make a compromise with SE that one of the DLC characters for Ultimate would be from SE in exchange for Cloud being free. At this point I don't even want another SE character in Smash if they're going to be so anal about copyright.

>It also showed what games were worthwhile and what games had a bunch of fluff spread around it.
that's just pure fanboyism talking. you don't really believe that games aren't "worthwhile" if they can't fit into an overpriced nintendo cartridge, right?
>While you don't have too many RPG's for the N64, you got enough action/adventure games that you could put the same amount of time in.
sure, but lots of people like jrpgs (myself included) and we were shit out of luck with the n64.
the ps1 had action-adventure games *and* jrpgs. the n64 really only had the former.

I truly believe that Smash Cloud is peak Cloud character design. I've never seen him look better.

Hes RPing

Only a handful of the credits actually name the original composers. Usually it's just the ones who did the remixes/arrangements. Sometimes they redo their own tunes like Shimomura does.
Evidently Uematsu does not own the FFVII music, though he might own some other Final Fantasy scores, and Masato Nakamura owns the Sonic 1 & 2 music, not Sega.

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You say that but a FFVII save file was 15kb on the playstation.
Now they're about 3mb.

With more space companies just get more wasteful.

>Nintendo wasn't on board with having FMVs in their games
but many n64 games had fmv's. for example: re2, starcraft 64, and pokemon puzzle league. they were shit quality compared to the ones on ps1, but they were still there.
>which is one of several reasons they stuck with cartridges.
pure bullshit. the only reasons why they stuck with cartridges were greed and control. they wanted to keep collecting that $19 nintendo tax on every cartridge, and they didn't want to give up the control they had over manufacturing and production. all the other "reasons" given at the time were excuses.

Nintendo in the mid-90s was an abusive company, there is a reason why every company under the sun left Nintendo.

Put it like this, I can get the same amount of time playing an RPG on a single cart from a previous gen that I would on a later console with two or more discs. FMV's took up space. And yes, while the N64 did have FMV's, you didn't need to swap a cart to do so. They got it right after 2000 onward, slowly but surely.

Imagine being a 64fag

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I honestly think Cloud looks better in Ultimate than in FF VII Remake (at least before they moved production in house). FF VII Remake Cloud looked more like a guy cosplaying as Cloud rather than Cloud himself. Cloud just doesn't feel like a character who was meant to be portrayed in a hyper realistic way.

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Square is desperately trying to kill their franchises

Is there a fucking guide to 'FF character appearances in other media' that isn't trawling each character wikia page? I'm actually interested in grabbing a couple, I remember enjoying Ehrgeiz back in the day, but it's hard to keep track.

Noctis seems to have been in a few things for example. How does he play in Tekken? I've not played a Tekken since 2 or 3. I remember the fighting always felt weighty and every action deliberate, and Noctis fights like a twink on speed with a toothpick and molotov.

>there's a reason why the n64 got almost no jrpgs during its lifetime. most major home-console jrpgs at the time were sprawling multi-disc affairs that could have never fit on a cartridge.
Because pS1 jrpgs were stuffed with pre-recorded FMV's that took up 90% of disc space, not because ps1 harware was more powerful. If those cinematics had been in-engine, they would take up 0 additional space.

They just got in too early. Advent Children did pretty well, if I recall. I don't know how the XV tie ins did. But they are slowly branching out again. I'm quite enjoying the FF: Lost Stranger manga series, even if its releases are glacial, and it's nice that the Ultimanias and some of the novellas are starting to get english releases.

>Nintendo and Square push for Cloud even though Black Mage is just as iconic and is actually in Nintendo games.
>We get barely any content as a result.
>Nintendo pushes for Joker instead of Jack Frost because HOT DANK NEW MEME BOY.
>We get tons of content relating to a single game that will be forgotten when the sequel rolls out instead of a tribute to the whole franchise.
Everything about how Smash has been handling tertiary third party stuff is awful.

Ptobably because it's basically free advertising in the run up to VIIR and keeps it in the online conciousness. I know I'm enjoying it. Hell, I actually rewatch it while I'm bored sometimes, and actively check for updates, because the production values are pretty damn good.

>If those cinematics had been in-engine, they would take up 0 additional space.
you're apply modern thought to the time. people loooved prerendered cutscenes in the 90s. MGS was partially a big deal because they were in-engine and, surprise!, were fantastic.

We get shades of it today. I remember the Sony follow up to that Xbox One announcement. That was pretty brutal in an understated way.

I don't want to jinx it but this thread turned into a decent conversation for once

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as much as i'd love geno in smash, i doubt square's greedy asses will put anything geno related outside of a jpeg in the game.
let alone bringing back the fucking mii outfit.

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Yeah, well, I'm glad you're happy. I was supposed to be finishing up my Bastok missions so I could move on to Chains of Promethia. Instead I've gotten caught up in actually reading a thread. If it was just shitposting I could havs skimmed for Tifa tittys and then gone back to what I was doing.

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>whereas the N64 was the first true 3D system
The PS1 already had fully 3D games as early as 1994 (e.g. King's Field).

What are yoy talking about?

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Square being fucking assholes with their IPs is the sole reason I don't buy any Erdrick talks.

can't forget how awful the amount of content pac-man had.
-5 jpegs
-no pac-maze, just this shitty ms paint stage
-no ms. pac-man as an echo or alt
-the same garbage alts from smash 4

it fucking baffles my mind since bandai namco is working on the game with sakurai.

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>Square
>Erdrick

As far as I'm aware, no except maybe for "final Fantasy in popular media" type pages.
On the flipside, it's usually the main characters who get into crossovers.

Square and Enix are one now, so it's basically the same now, plus Square flows more naturally than Square Enix or S-E

Pac ain't back, so he gets jack.
I get why they did it this way, but it's still annoying.

>the production values are pretty damn good
I'm honestly surprised how they got some of the bigger American va's in the industry to join the cast.
>The announcer for Smash & Joker's dub voice is Rufus Shinra
>Deku's dub voice is Cloud
>2B's dub voice is Aerith
>Jinx from LoL and Chiaya from Persona 5 is Tifa
>Tfw this means Joker and Chiaya's date can be seen as Rufus and Tifa going on a date

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>Enix
>Erdrick

Obviously Square is shorthand for Square Enix. You think there's a separate Enix lawyer team who aren't as greedy? One could only hope I guess

>the same garbage alts from smash 4
Supposedly the reason why Pac-man's alts are garbage is because Bandai-Namco are really stingy with how Pac-man is portrayed.

Is Yuji Horii known for being greedy? There are Dragon Quest-Mario crossovers. Does Toriyama have a stake in it? Genuine questions

I didn't know this. Thanks user. Makes me wonder if it isn't stealth marketing in a more literal sense.

>Team Fourstar
>"We're a non profit parody that does not leech off this franchise, but please watch our monetized game videos where we equate ourselves to the characters we play in summary versions of a commercial product and buy our derivative merch."

You have to be a child, an autist, or someone who benefits from their work (most of Funimation) to not see why Toei's frustration is understandable. They're a shit studio, but the way TFS operates is horseshit.

Or just not care and enjoy their content. That works for me personally. I didn't even realize Toei was frustrated until you mentioned it because who gives a shit about what the corperates think about the funny fan flicks I waste ten minutes a month on the shitter with?

one of the RE2 FMVs on the N64 is actually Ada's scene in place of Claire's

He does, Bird Studio = Toriyama copyright. Armor Project = Yuji Horii copyright.
Fun fact, initially Yuji Horii didn't own Chrono Trigger, but he bought the series back into Armor Project.

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>Toei's a complete assholes to them what the fuck!
>Its pretty reasonable when you look at what's happening.
>lmao who cares
I'm assuming you're not the user I replied to, but context matters. We're talking about people who get pissed at Toei for their interaction with TFS. It's kind of hard to be upset and not care simultaneously.

>3 lines of text for the clusterfuck of Squeenix
>1 line of nintendo
Get your shit together squeenix.

>How does Noctis play in Tekken?
He seems really disliked by the Tekken community. Upon looking up how people feel about him, they seem really pissed about how some of his attacks (mostly this one attack that looks like Ultimate Ganon's up-smash) have big disjointed hitboxes - not unlike the Smash community's complaints about Cloud, which is ironic since Bandai-Namco developed both Tekken 7 & Smash 4/Ultimate. I guess Final Fantasy characters are cursed to be hated in fighting games (I don't play Tekken, so Tekkenfags feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

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look at this seething 40 year old nintendo cock sucker

Yeah, not him, and not really ignoring the context so much as bewildered at how you would even know about this stuff.

even at that point, they could make some sick ass skins based off stuff like blue ghosts or some shit

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>The VIRGIN Smash Cloud
>Only has Advent Children design as his alt costume
>Only uses a sword
>No remixed music in his stage
>Speaks Japanese because SE is too stingy
>No cutscene exclusive for trailer

>The CHAD Tekken Noctis
>Has 5 alt costumes
>Uses a variety of weapons, including Magic Grenades
>Remix of Apocalypsis Noctis plays in his home stage
>Speaks Japanese to be consistent with the rest of Tekken’s cast
>Trailer has unique footage with Gladiolus, Ignis and Prompto

You see people cry and bitch and scream all over the net, even here, about how big bad Toei keeps trying to shut down TFS.
Then you look at their content and see that they just chop down and redub episodes then sell merch based on it. Then you wonder what kind of person thinks the harsh reaction from the company who's getting leeched is unreasonable.

Smash representation relies on the third party being co-operative. SE never plays balls in crossovers. This isn't exclusive to Smash, look at Noctis in Tekken 7 for another example.

>that low attack range
Oh shit. Low attacks are cheap before you start adding double and triple ranges; yet Noctis has access to a spear, and that is exactly the real life advantage of a spear.

It sounds like they are just salty that bullshit anime fighters are portrayed as bullshit anime fighters. The Cloud complaint has more grounding in reality, since Smash is full of people who should be able to challenge him (higher end Fire Emblem heroes and Link) or smash him (Samus). But Notis? He is literally a teleporting 'nothing eprsonal kid' fighter in a game translpanted into a traditionally 'heavy' fighting game where most of the characters are more grounded in reality.

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>even at that point, they could make some sick ass skins based off stuff like blue ghosts or some shit
Not really. The stipulation is probably that's he gotta always gotta be his regular yellow color. Same thing with Sonic cept Sega is at least nice enough to let them do tints.

i can't deny, you made a good point

A Dragon Quest fighter doesn't seem that likely, but it shouldn't be any harder to get a hold of than Cloud as long as all the parties want it. Even if Cloud comes with barely anything, they did manage to rope him in twice.
Maybe it was just a rumor but I can believe that Nomura had to convince the execs "you can trust Sakurai to do justice to Cloud"

>mostly this one attack that looks like Ultimate Ganon's up-smash

That sounds awful in a game with very little if any double jumps/floats and very few projectiles ignoring accessories.

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Google best RPGs, chances are Chrono Trigger & FF6 will be listed at the top every single time along with Dark Souls, Skyrim & ME2

same. it breaks my heart, but it's the truth.

his and mallow's spirits are probably the last we'll even see of them for yet another decade, if not ever, unless square goes under.

Wrong, SE specifically recommend Terra but Sakurai chose Cloud due to his popularity

>A Dragon Quest fighter doesn't seem that likely
It kinda is, but my problem its that it is too big.
A fighter game featuring the poster child of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest seems to be too big for Square to let Nintendo do it.

doubly wrong. se suggested lightning and noctis, whereas sakurai debated on bartz or terra before settling on cloud.

The fact that snoys are seething hardcore at this post just goes to show that it's 100% correct.

>It makes people mad, therefore it's correct!
It was literally a technical impossibility to fit the FMV's Square wanted to make for FF into N64 cartridges. Square had no choice but to leave Nintendo, and after the financial success of the PSX FF games, Square has never really looked back.

>doubly wrong. se suggested lightning and noctis

Except that’s wrong too, nowhere does it say that SE suggested Lightning while Noctis’ game hadn’t come out yet at the time so no way would he be suggested.

Man I only ever hear these retarded contract/licensing issues happen with Square for some reason. Like I know issues exist for other companies (for example TPCi being autistic about shinies being alt colors in smash) but never to this level where it's just one thing after another.

Personally I'm indifferent about DQ but I'd be fine with the idea because it is an important franchise. None of us know how likely it actually is.

If this is true, this makes me not want another SE character period.

FF is for otaku gamers
DQ is for normies and their kids

It's almost exclusively why I buy them. I can absolutely see them only letting Cloud be in Ultimate if they could get their own DLC character, and since it's DQ I can totally see it only having 2 MIDI tracks again.

Considering the Sonic fanbase I can't blame them for not wanting him to have multicolored alts

I don't see any evidence that Lightning or Noctis were suggested, just Nomura said "are you sure you’re okay with Cloud?” He’s not a character from a new game, after all." nintendoeverything.com/masahiro-sakurai-and-tetsuya-nomura-talk-more-about-cloud-in-smash/

Strange considering Nomura is the one who shoehorns Cloud into Kingdom Hearts. If anyone would know how popular Cloud is it's him.

>Sean Schemmel is a fucking asshole. What a goddamn elitist.

He actually is FOR the false rape accusation of Vic. Basically he's in every way a traitor to his sex for supporting MeToo. Never thought I'd see Goku, the character who probably doesn't know what sex is even now, supporting the shitty MeToo garbage movement. Anyone that son of a bitch Sean has entirely soured the English Dub of Dragon Ball. Hope he gets falsely accused to see how he likes it. It's always karma when the Left eats its own.

>The left is all rapists and pedo
>But everyone who is accused of rape is likely innocent, like Vic, who is a leftie.
>Except Bill Clinton
Mysterious things.

Not him but I really thought with the whole James Gunn thing this outrage-based job-lynching culture would finally fuck off.

>He actually is FOR the false rape accusation of Vic.
I mean it's not like Vic's rep wasn't a joke online before this stupid event happened or something.
Hell, any credibility the claims would've had got destroyed hard by this campaign spiralling out of control and the kick vic guys being asshats online.
But Sean's always been an ass. You ever heard of the Kelamis guy at Kamehame con apparently getting removed from a panel due to Sean's winging

fpbp

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It's even weirder now that the flood gates have opened and we're seeing a truck load of Final Fantasy hitting Switch.

>tfw I-VI are all gonna be the mobile ports and not new ones/the PSP versions

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what game is this from. i recognize it

PlayStation All-stars Battle Royale for the Xbox.

thanks. i might play it but its kind of old

Ever since they left the NES to put the FF mainline games on Sony

FFVII could've been possible on 64 if it was programmed more competently. It does some weird shit in places.

I enjoyed CC, had a lot of charm and pretty music. Hated the GBA hookup gimmick though.

Best FF games were Tactics and 6. Many of the mainline series feature goofy kpop emo stars and belt buckles and have since 7. Haven't cared about the series in forever.