What did Denuvo mean by this?

Your point?

DMC5 accidentally put out a denuvoless version of their game and it sold 3m+ copies on Steam so far. If you make a good game people will buy it.

That wasn't an answer to my question. Of course more stringent protection, discourage potential pirates. But that doesn't mean it's necessary. Nor does it mean that it's necessarily more profitable.

>Are there other options for developers?
Yes, make a good game.

They're still quadruple niggers for delaying a whole month to add malware because it leaked on Switch. A DIGITAL COPY no less.

>b-b-but you don't know that
Taxman tweeted about genetic DRM in the very same day it got delayed.

Well if no one who pirates a game buys it when it has DRM, why would you add it in the first place and lose money on the DRM license?

>DMC5 accidentally put out a denuvoless version of their game and it sold 3m+ copies on Steam so far
It barely sold 80k. If the denuvoless shit hadn't happened they'd have sold EASILY 900k

100mb is fucking nothing. Are you assuming that the size of denuvo is proportional to the size of the exe before denuvo is added? That's not how it works

Not paying out the ass for shitty DRM that has a history of failure? Denuvo gets BTFO in under a week now, why do devs still pay for it?

>removing code lowers memory size
woah...

>and it sold 3m+ copies on Steam so far
lol

Well magic is the gayest thing on Earth so

No, that would be OP

those numbers are laughably wrong dumbass

>buy game
>get fucked by anti-piracy measures that make the game run like ass
>pirate game
>enjoy game without anti-piracy

>But that doesn't mean it's necessary. Nor does it mean that it's necessarily more profitable.
It does and it does.
>That wasn't an answer to my question.
Yes. They do make money. Even a game without DRM could get one pity sale or some ignorant sales of people who don't know or can't into pirating as an option.

That's why I ignored your stupid fucking question, because the answer is obvious and contributes jackshit to your argument.

Say that to the witcher 3, DRM-free since day one trough GOG.

I'd love to see the sources you're using to back up your retarded points

Because there are people who normally buy games but may pirate when it is an option. And those are lost sales.

Because, again:
WHAT ARE THEIR OTHER OPTIONS?

>It does and it does.
More stringent protection, also puts off buyers as well.
Plus, you can't really say that in another reality, a game sold more or less due to more or less protection. Because we can't observe both realities. We only live in this one. And so we know how audiences react one way.

A game which is also available on console and can fall back on those sales.

Wow.. What is it like working at Walmart and coming home after a 9hr shift to defend Denuvo on the internet?

If you're just a cheap faggot who just doesn't want to pay for anything, just admit it. Why do you try to act like you're Justified calling for every game to have no anti-piracy measures when you're the exact kind of person they're intended for because you never buy anything? You could at least have some dignity in your stealing by not trying to frame yourself as the victim.

Except it literally doesn't, and it doesn't
Fucking retard

gizmodo.com/the-eu-suppressed-a-300-page-study-that-found-piracy-do-1818629537

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But it sold incredible well on PC, 5 million+ copies.

Friendly reminder AC: Odyssey doesn't run on older CPUs due to Denuvo.

Wrong.

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>100mb is nothing
what the fuck are you talking about, you could fit 7 million instructions in that size, what the fuck is denuvo doing?

Citation.

>pay for shit DRM
>pirates aren't going to bother to pay for it because they know it's going to get cracked within a week
>lose out on the money you paid for shit DRM
Explain to me how that DRM is gonna give them more profit again?

crack available day one

Attached: 61302_84688_witcher-3-sales-revenue-monster.png (620x345, 129K)

The reason why developers keep adding Denuvo to their games isn't to try and thwart pirates in order to improve their sales, it's entirely to try and appease shareholders.

The majority of shareholders barely know anything about the video game industry and only see it as a way to try and make a profit. When they hear that people can pirate the product that they're putting money into, it upsets them immensely because they see it as a threat to their investment. They aren't going to ever be convinced by arguments on why it isn't harmful, especially because many investors are too old to understand how the digital marketplace works.

So that's why Denuvo keeps getting money from developers, even with the negative effects it has on the game. It's not to improve sales, it's to gain more investors and to avoid losing current investors.

>Because there are people who normally buy games but may pirate when it is an option. And those are lost sales
>And those are lost sales
How can you lose something that you never had?

The Witcher 3 didn't need a crack retard, cd projekt red released it DRM-free day one through GoG.

Okay now that makes sense, thank you for not

juliareda.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/displacement_study.pdf
oh yeah this is real fucking convincing I'm totally BTFO how will I ever recover pirate-chads?

Attached: 2019-03-15_20-28-50.png (710x606, 59K)

>Make shitty indie game that no one is going to buy anyways
>Spend $100,000 to buy piracy protection for it
>Don't get any profits even though no one ever cracks my game

user you told me this would always get me a profit, why were you wrong? It's almost like it's really easy to think of a situation where you could be incorrect.

>PC developers NEED Denuvo or they will lose sales!
>okay here are games without DRM that sold bazillions
>IT DOESN'T COUNT!
It's gonna be one of those threads huh?

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Harry Potter spells the dullest representation of magic.

>pirates aren't going to bother to pay for it
correct
>Explain to me how that DRM is gonna give them more profit again?
because not everyone who pirates pirates all the time no matter what

Reminder that
>1 pirate = 1 copy lost
is dumb as fuck

>How can you lose something that you never had?
it was "in the bag", as the idiom goes.

if people want to play your game for free they will just wait the week it takes to get cracked anyway
imagine wasting time and money implementing denuvo instead using that to make a better game that people want to put money down on

how many games Denuvo save this far from being PIRATE'D??

No it isn't. inb4 the tired fallacy of
>But I wasn't gonna buy it in the first place! That's why I am pirating it! To play it

Handball

And what supposed fallacy would that be user? Please tell us.

This is such a lie. I specifically do not buy games WITH DRM.

They recompile parts of the game code into a proprietary bytecode which is then run on a heavily obfuscated virtual machine.

The dullest franchise of spells

>Handball 17
>855 days and Counting
>UNCRACKED
wow!!

"No!"

>Spend $100,000 to buy piracy protection
source?

>it sold 3m+ copies on Steam
That's definitely wrong.

I'm actually glad when a game I want has denuvo. I end up getting it for free after some time in the end it doesn't even matter.

I've pirated plenty of games I never had the intentions of buying.

good thing you're not the only potential customer, hunh?

What exactly is this supposed to prove?

This only proves that piracy increases visibility. It doesn't prove that the rate of pirates remain constant.

For example, say you release a game without DRM, and it only gets 100 sales. You managed to thwart piracy for the release window. No pirates.
But without DRM, you only get 90 sales initially.
However, 20 people pirate the game. And through good word of mouth, your game reaches more people, and eventually you sell 10 more. Topping you off at 100.

In this example, both DRM and no-DRM come out to about the same amount of sales. One lost sales, because of how easy it was to pirate, only making up the difference, thanks to the increased visibility it attained through word of mouth.

However, the numbers I gave are just that.: Example. Who is to say that piracy is capable of making up the difference? Maybe you only sell 50, 80 people pirate, and then you only see 40 more sales. Now you're down 10.
Or maybe piracy more than makes up the difference. Maybe you sell 90, 80 people pirate, and word of mouth transfers into 40 more sales. Now you're up 10.

We can't assume piracy is helpful or harmless in all cases. It certainly has an effect on the market. But I think it's more of a case-by-case determination.

Does Sonic the Hedgehog need Denuvo? Probably not, because he's such an iconic character, he already has high visibility. Or, maybe he does, because his reputation is in the shitter, and a lot of people didn't want to give the game a chance, opting to pirate.

I'm not sure why you'd need a source, considering the point of my example is that if you're not making much money in the first place you're not going to get a profit wasting it on anti-piracy, but sure.

reddit.com/r/CrackStatus/comments/4mtb46/conversation_with_a_denuvo_employee/
>inb4 reddit

How does it even work? As long as you know the words/pronunciation you'll shoot it out?

Hello, I bought NierA day 1

you won't be missed I that's fore sure
but your pockets will be empty and you going to shut down your studio really quick with that trash you deliver
maybe like for a change start developing good games for a change?

>reddit.com/r/CrackStatus/comments/4mtb46/conversation_with_a_denuvo_employee/
The standard pricing models:

Lump sum model:

AAA title (bigger 500k units on PC): 100.000 EUR

AA title (smaller 500k units on PC): 50.000 EUR

Indie title (less than 100k units on PC): 10.000 EUR

Or

Per unit pricing:

2.500 EUR setup fee.

0,15 EUR per unit reported monthly based on Steam,… owners.

(optional) cost covering for on-site visit if requested.

>I'm not sure why you'd need a source, considering the point of my example is that if you're not making much money in the first place you're not going to get a profit wasting it on anti-piracy
Maybe because when you blow up the fucking numbers to 10x the actual amount, it becomes impossible to see how the sales could possibly amount to it?

Yeah, that seems like the average denuvo defender to me

fuck you
youtu.be/B6uTLewZ8xA?t=56

>Maybe because when you blow up the fucking numbers to 10x the actual amount, it becomes impossible to see how the sales could possibly amount to it?

No, the point still stands. If your game has sales in the double digits (Which is the majority of indie games), then you are losing money if you decide to purchase Denuvo whether it's costing you ten or a hundred grand, which was my point.
You might as well be complaining that I stated the price in unconverted American dollars rather than Euros.

The books mention needing proper wand movements and shit like that, but then iirc there's a few instances of people using magic without a wand at all so I guess its whatever J.K. Rowling thinks should work at any given moment.

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> Zero minus ten thousand isn't a negative number because zero minus one hundred thousand is a bigger negative number

This is you right now.

too bad that denuvo shill who mods jrpgs on Steam doesn't browse Yea Forums

>compared to a console
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHHAHAHA
you do know what digital sales are virgin do you?

denuvo gets cracked in 3 days mate

good thing Denuvo isn't the only DRM
in your hypothetical, the developer can afford to go for cheaper shit
>You might as well be complaining that I stated the price in unconverted American dollars rather than Euros
'tard

Release the game without DRM and hope you made a good enough product at a reasonable price to warrant consumers to purchase it. Piratefags are gonna pirate it either way, or if they can't, they certainly aren't going to buy it.

>Denuvo defender can't understand basic logic and comparisons
What a surprise.

>Are there other options for developers?
Stop caring about piracy, and make a good game.

>Because the alternative is stop developing for PC.
No, it isn't.

>a good enough product at a reasonable price
both of these are subjective
it doesn't obligate consumers to make the purchase when they otherwise wouldn't

Friendly reminder that Denuvo was indirectly created by Sony through a buyout management via Sony's DADC DigitalWorks.
This is the only good Harry Potter related media. Prove me wrong.
youtube.com/watch?v=VvpPxjCKTqc

because it's usually worth it for them? you realize that's the point, to delay it for a week or two so people who really want the game actually buy it?

If I remember my teen years, the books explain that wizards can do magic even without a wand, but the wands helps them to make the magic more organized and practical for daily use. Magic freaks like Voldemort can do really powerful magic even without a wand, but that level of magical proficiency is extremely rare.

A wizard could potentially use any old stick to focus their magic, but wizards developed some technique in which they can use magical creatures and magically attuned plants to vastly improve said focus and magical quality.

So you agree that with or without DRM, consumers that would purchase the product would purchase it. If that's true, why bother with DRM at all? You're just wasting money at that point, on top of gimping your game's performance to the point some potential consumers might go for a pirated, DRM-free version simply to have it run better.

>This is the only good Harry Potter related media. Prove me wrong.
The bomb ticking parody.

I don't pay for digital distribution, if the developers want me to pay for their game then they can offer me a DRM free physical copy, I will continue pirating all my games until they do.
Steam is just as bad as Denuvo

Nothing can obligate consumers. DRM sure as fuck doesn't considering anyone who knows how to pirate something knows it only takes a few days for Denuvo to get cracked.

>So you agree that with or without DRM, consumers that would purchase the product would purchase it.
>If that's true, why bother with DRM at all?
>You're just wasting money at that point
You could say the same of the person who buys a pirate-able game.

>Steam is just as bad as Denuvo
Based retard

Making the game good and pricing it fairly, that's literally it. Cuphead sold two fucking million and it was on both Steam and GOG. Honestly can't tell if you retards are genuine or not.

actual severe autism posts right here

if someone pirates 10000000000000000000000000000000 copies of your games right now, how many sales did you make? Exactly bitch, 0. So don't pretend you ever lost a sale you worthless DRM shills.
Besides that maybe read the EU study that tells you to go fuck yourself and never come back with argument because pirating actually leaves positive impact on final sales.

>was literally going to buy sonic mania and have some cool sanik fun
>last second Denuvo announcement for PC
>"fuck that"
>do a 360 and never looked back

Watched a longplay instead

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>Cuphead sold two fucking million and it was on both Steam and GOG
it was also on XboxOne
but I'm sure you know all the figures, don't you?

go to bed, you have homework to do tomorrow

But couldn't that be counterbalanced by how much it costs to use Denuvo?

You're a mouth breathing retard.
Anyone hell bent on pirating it will just wait for denuvo to be cracked in less then a week so denuvo only gets money from a small ass portion of pirates who want to play it immediately. But the company looses a shit ton of money putting denuvo in the first place and from sales of people who are anti-denuvo so they most likely get less money then they would have gotten without denuvo.

Most of the sales were on PC.
Steam alone accounted for 1 million sales.
wccftech.com/cuphead-2-million/
>approximately 1.1 million copies of Cuphead have been sold on Steam, meaning the game is most popular on PC, despite being heavily promoted as an Xbox One console exclusive.

And nobody owns an Xbone, your point?

depends on your interpretation of "makes less"

why are you trying this shit 100 posts into the thread? secretly try to get the anti-denuvo thread bumped? ok.

>implying denuvo prevents piracy
it's literally a scam for stockholders

Yeah, Im sure the massive player base of the xbone did wonders for a indie game.

sick reply sweety
but where are the arguments

Cuphead Steam and Windows Store release used DRM

And GOG didn't. Your point?

right here:
The study isn't convincing because it's using another study's conclusion second hand as its own, and from a small sample size.

Hollow Knight was a PC exclusive for a while. Available on Steam and GOG and it sold more than a million copies before it even came to consoles. Same thing with Slay the Spire.

You didn't post GOG figures
Did it sell more or less than on Steam, despite being available around the same time, but having the advantage of being DRM free?
If it sold more on GOG, then I've lost: I admit it.

Why the fuck are you even trying to compare the sales from GOG vs steam? Are you for real?

excuse me sweety what you find not convincing the study doesn't give a flying shit about and the publishers who still make profits of it even though pirating is flourishing you seem like a fucking retard don't you?`
if you want something more up to date might aswell include DMCV and Witcher cases, which both blow you the fuck out of this planet
tl;dr: neck yourself

convincing autism right here, no studies applied

You are so fucking retarded jesus christ.

What I'm saying is you're promoting a rag that proves nothing.

DRM is just a way to bait hopeless sheeps to buy their game who can't decide for themselves or indicate a bad game from a good one and are frustrated in the long run how other get away with superior product (piates)

most of them removed demos but as seen with Capcoms case both had a demo version to try out and sold very well even though leaks about non drm exe's came out or game got cracked in the long run

in the end if you read anyone defend DRM in any way it's a fucking shill or just plain stupid and neglected because of said above

ITT: Cuckolds and retardera users

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i'm not promoting anything

>all those stupid autistic capcom fucks who get pissed when you say you pirated RE2 or DMC shit

you're promoting the report as a definitively true source

You shouldn't pirate new music. That's one of the main reasons it sucks now.

There's no YouTube for AAA or AA gaming.

and who said it's not true ?
still not promoting anything here I don't need the study to bury you worthless sheep but you still kind need to provide arguments that somehow counter anything

based
/thread

And now we have to wait for every mod to update itself *again*

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Mad consolecuck

Kingdom come sold 2:1 compared to ps4+xbone combined.

Then they should legit just do that.

Steamspy says 200-500k
it's the only number we have

Dark Souls 3 sold over 3 million on PC with no Denvuvo, suck a fat dick

Everything sucks because mass commercialism panders to the lowest common denominator. Piracy has nothing to do with it, and it would probably be even worse for "good" new music without the relatively free flow of information allowing them to get noticed.
You could say
>you shouldn't pirate music from smaller groups that you want to keep making music
but even then depending on publishing and source you can often do better by buying something directly from them rather than say getting 1$ from a 10$ album sale on itunes, which is actually "good" as far as deals with record companies and apple go. If they sell CDs through a website they probably keep 60-80% of the profit and I'm sure they'd much rather you buy 1 album on disk and pirate their entire discography, spending 15$ and earning them 8$ than buy 15$ worth of itunes tracks and earning them 80 cents, or even worse get some tiny fraction of your spotify subscription fee.

How is this going to affect how mods are installed?
Will they still be installed via the installer or will it be as simple as a workshop tab now?

That explains the performance hit.

I was sort of implying physical media. Also, it's a combination of piracy and streaming. For anyone except the biggest of the big, the actual record is a big fat waste of time from a money making perspective. It used to be that artists would do live shows to promote their album. Now they make an album to promote their live shows. This makes artists put most of their focus into their image and social media bullshit instead of actually producing a good song. The only great pop records I can recall from the past decade are from artists who emulate older styles.

This is sort of applicable to video games too if I'm honest. If nobody is willing to pay a fixed price outright then they will make their money back in more annoying and damaging ways. I will say that their profit expectations are stupidly inflated as of late though and they'd probably continue to force micropayments even if piracy wasn't happening.

That's the joke retard

VMs are heavy.

>mfw people have been saying that people will stop developing for PC for at least 10 years now

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Based