This game is fucking boring. I beat Shovel Knight yesterday and it was a blast...

Why is this mediocre piece of shit popular?

what kind of shit ass bait is this lmao
game is amazing, git gud retard kek

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I just think it's fun, beautiful game with great music and gameplay mechanics.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>OP can't read a map without a big glowing "you are here button"
>expects people to take his opinions seriously
Shitters like you are why games are getting casualized, fuck off.

You know, if you made some actual points instead of baiting for replies, maybe you'd get some genuine engagement. But no, instead you shitpost using Yea Forums memes. Have fun getting a couple people that agree on page 10 while fostering no discussion.

Minimaps and compasses have robbed zoomers of the ability to actually navigate worlds. They expect everything to be like Google Maps.

thog dont care

I own the game and quit playing about 4 hours in
The world is boring and the map is garbage

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Are we going to have this niggering thread every niggering hour for the next nigger days you fucking doublenigger op

I've played like 2-4 Metroids and 4-5 Castlevanias, and this is my favorite in the genre of all that I've played. SotN is a close second though, there's one thing this game really doesn't do is having to grind out some monsters for specific weapons. Every playthrough of SotN, I have to stop and get two Heaven Swords just because I fucking love it. Hollow Knight has no variance in that regard though, so that sucks.

The game is great but it does have an extremely slow start. I felt the same way at first so keep at it a bit longer maybe it'll click.

yes, because OP is so dense that not even light can escape it, therefore he is a double nigger

sawblades desu

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Am I missing something? Is there only jump and attack in this game? Am I not using my full moveset?

bapanada?

It's a Metroidvania.

Just like all Metroidvanias, combat and exploration get better with progression as you unlock more shit. So yeah the game gets better. Charms offer "build" variety, and you get a few movement options. There are optional platforming and boss gauntlet sections late in the game that are very challenging.

Idk why everyone thinks the map is shit when it literally looks like any other metroidvania map. Its pretty big and has plenty of shortcuts and fast travel options to get around easier. If you like metroidvanias i fail to see why one wouldnt like Hollow Knight. Its great. Up there with SotN. Better than Super Metroid.

>Using SotN to shit on HW

O I am laffin. Fucking joke pacing and scaling and the mirrored Castle is so terrible it makes people drop a game they've ready dumped a dozen hours into

you get some movement abilities like wall climbing, double jumping, and air dashing that are necessary for traversing the world and dodging boss patterns
but unlockable attacks/techniques are incredibly niche and jumping on an enemies head and pogoing with your sword will always be the best offensive option

It's about 20 hours too long. Full of padding.

>jumping on an enemies head and pogoing with your sword will always be the best offensive option
imagine being this bad at the game

I found it boring too, after beating Yakuza I might give it another chance. BUT the design is godtier at least.

>why everyone thinks the map is shit
I think they mean the actual map for navigation and get mad because instead of everything being marked for them, they actually have to think and remember in order to figure out where they are.

>Beat the Hollow Knight
>Game ends anticlimactically
>Figure this couldn't be right so I went about exploring some more
>Explored pretty much the whole map now, got all the grubs, got almost all the charms, pretty sure I have all the abilities and their upgrades, maxed out the nail
>Found one half of a charm but can't find the other half
>Give up and look up how to advance
>I need 2400 essence

I'm taking a break.

>2400
It's 1800

I want to bash the artists over there with a sign thats says
>whatever art bs you think is more important than my ability to see my character or enemies is not that important.
There is so much visual noise in the foreground combined with the overdone effects, I like the game but stop trying to blind me game.

Hollow Knight is rather slow in the beginning, it kind of turned me off at first. Give it at least until you get to Fungal Wastes, it gets a lot better really quick.

best way to get essence is dream bosses
soul tyrant, lost kin, grey prince zote, etc.

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sotn is shit outside of the soundtrack
enjoy your (you)

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Are you actually blind or just retarded. I'm not a fan of the game and can accept reasonable criticism but your character is a bright white skull on grey, brown, dark blue and green backgrounds.

I agree so fucking much. Maybe I just don't like metroidvania but the gameplay and exploration of this were so fucking boring. The artstyle is god tier though, so I'm gonna keep playing and see if it gets any better.

What the fuck is wrong with your eyes

Did you not notice the games obsession with placing foreground objects and effects?

Thankfully the HK fanbase on Yea Forums is extra cancerous helping furthermore cement my dislike of this shit game

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>waaah waaaah people make me dislike this game

grow up nigger

I'm still taking a break for a while. I've been playing this one game for I dunno how many days. I have other games on my backlog I wanna get to anyway.

I've posted in upwards of a hundred HK threads and you are literally the first person I've seen claim to have some issue tracking the knight or enemies.

I hadn't even thought of it because I couldn't imagine that would bother someone

Has anyone ever played Hungry Knight?

>pic-related
>posting your gt
>bunch of garbage
opinion disregarded

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Don't understand how people find the gameplay "boring." The fuck do you want out of it. Its like saying Zelda gameplay is boring. Did you think you were getting DMC?

Game is fun but it definitely took a while for me to like it. Initially, it was just some edgy bug shit but after reaching fungal wastes I started enjoying it a lot. City of Tears is comfy af too.

yeah lol

Tracking the Knight is easy, its enemies that can easily be concealed, even for a second, in this fast paced game with touch damage, this leading to fake difficulty because the game decided to block your view.
Are seriously pretending to not know why blocking the players view of the action with bullshit would bother someone?

I didn't realize snappers could move.

I dont find the gameplay boring but I did find the locations boring and the exploration not as rewarding as it should be after walking for so long

Same for me. Takes a while to get used to, but after 2-5 hours, the atmosphere starts dragging you in, especially the music. I managed to beat the game for the normal ending and probably missed half the optional bosses. The game offers lots for people who want to go and discover every nook and cranny, and beat everything there is to beat. I felt drained after finally beating it after ~40 hours, and was a tiny bit disappointed to get only the 'normal' ending.

I spent 20 hours in it until I decided that I didn't like it

What didnt you like user?

SotN is a good game but it's super overrated, all the details and hidden secrets don't make up for how flimsy the game feels, plus inverted castle is hullshit

There's literally never anything that obstructive

I think it's definitely one of those things where if you're not invested in the lore aspect you might not get as much out of it.

Yeah it has a ton of things to do in it. Pretty fun game. Only thing I want is more charm slots so I can build my character more because it never feels like I have enough choices.

I said the knight OR enemies because you said "my character" in your first post.
Again, I've literally never heard anybody complain of this and I can only think of two example where enemies could plausibly be obstructed by visual effects: Deepnest (by design) and during the transition to the interior of the noble's quarters in the City of Tears. Foreground objects are never placed such that they will obstruct your view for "even a second", at least none that I remember. I don't know, maybe you could cite an example.

What is flimsy about it user?

How do I learn the lore of this game? Does it really elevate it that much? The only moment in the game that ever pulled me in and made me want to learn more was when you descend into the Abyss and see the gigantic pit of vessels.

Just so you know it actually doesn't get any better, unless you really really like hard boss fights, half of which are due to having an rng element to them. Otherwise, you are correct.

>rng element
Bosses have like three or four attacks each and they telegraph every single one lmao

I found SotN to be complete garbage, the only castlevania i finished was OoE, and only because of shanoa's back

v is full of trannies and roasties who only play ow (as mercy) and think their garbage opinions matter
guess what, freaks, it doesnt
get gud or get out
peace

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Atmosphere, even if the world is supposed to be dull I felt it lacked variation as a whole both in visuals and level design

Enemies weren't really as memorable, not as the bosses and mini bosses at least

Exploration feels boring, not very rewarding, not worth it dig deeper and have the risk of dying (because of course I wouldn't finish this game without a single death) to walk all over again only to find money and other small stuff since the game doesn't have a big list of weapons or skills to make it more difficult

Here is a screenshot I just made for you, you can barely see that enemy in that instance, and I have been jumping through that area and hit enemies I didn't even see until after getting hit.
Again I like the game I just think they overdid some of the visual stuff and it can get annoying.

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Higher beings, these words are for you alone.

These blasted opinions stretch never-ending. There is no agreement beyond.

Those foolish enough to traverse this void must pay the toll and relinquish the precious enjoyment this kingdom grants.

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I'd get more enjoyment out of SOTN if it wasn't so fucking braindead easy
>J-JUST LIMIT YOURSELF BRO
If you have to limit a game to make it hard then that's just desperate.

Play the hard hack.

The maps cost like 100, in what fucking world was that a grind. The only "grind" would be the lantern which is entirely not needed until you are throwing geo at everything in sight just trying to use it all.

that's cool but Yea Forums likes it so your thread, like every other one like it, will just become another hollow knight thread. seems to already be one, actually. see you next time, in your next incarnation

I guess it'd be a grind if you keep dying, then dying again before reclaiming the geo from your shade.

>the graphics are a gimmick
How did nobody ask WHAT in the blue fuck you meant by this?

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No, instead I completed everything in the game sans 5 binding pantheons after 125 hours. You might just be autistic.

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I’ve been stuck on Brooding Mawlek for 3 fuckin hours. This game is hard as balls. First boss I’ve found and I can’t even beat him. Takes like a thousand fucking hits to kill him. How do I get good? I’m usually decent st these games , like mega man etc

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you're quasi-sequence breaking to even fight it. go explore the rest of the crossroads, christ. I accidentally discovered him like you did but I actually have skill so I didn't trip over my cock in the process. jesus, man

It's not supposed to be your first boss, but you are forced to pogo him and go to the other side once it spits a bazillion infected orbs.

If hes the first boss you have found, go look elsewhere. I think you want Hornet first for the dash, you should be looking for Failed Champion, an upgrade, and then a green area.

So how in the fuck am I supposed to win, fight takes so long I always fuck up. Guess I’ll try him a few more times then explore elsewhere

It’s gonna annoy the everloving fuck out of me knowing I couldn’t kill this nigga

Enemies give you like 2 coins each. The compass was 250, then the quill is like 120. That means you need to walk around the same boring ass area and kill boring mooks for a couple hours just to get a functioning map.

You have time to run under him when he jumps or to pogo over him when he vomits. It's doable, but punishing for a beginner. You're going to want the dash upgrade.
You're going to hit other walls. Don't spend three hours throwing yourself at them. Don't get married to any route; the world is pretty open, and there's almost always another way around.

That's why there are money rewards scattered around the world in every single corner.

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Thanks for the response man. Really really enjoying this game honestly. Playing it until Sekiro drops later in the month. I’m actually enjoying hk as much as DMC5, haha. Maybe even more 2 b h

Also bosses and minibosses drop large quantities of geo. It didn't occur to you at any point during those couple hours that you might not be going about geo farming in the most efficient or sensible way?

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The 2003 newgrounds flash tier graphics turned me right off. I bought it and turned it off after 20 minutes.

Because you are full of shit, the maps cost fucking 100 geo, I think the first map is at discount price or free, I dont remember.

>tfw hollow knight and symphony of the night bore the shit out of me
nothing against either of them though I think I just played them way too late because im absolutely sick of metroidvania games.

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good thing the first boss gives like 150 or something
at least play games you are going to post about

Way to literally ignore his fucking point you jabroni

stop dying and then dying again. unless it's in real life.

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You can pay a blacksmith in the game to upgrade your weapon if you bring him the right materials. You can do this several times, it chops off about a 1/3 of hits needed to kill it. You can learn nailmaster techniques to improve damage (charge attack) to further increase damage out put. Also you can equip accessories to increase damage output or defense or whatever. Do some combo of that and it should be more tolerable. It will require money and a lot of exploring though (mostly for money)...

you should know already that this game is another overrated indie shit

>Explored the whole map
>I need 2400 essence
Then you didnt explore shit scrub.

Literally every Metroidvania is boring for the first 2 hours. Have you never played one before?

What you got its not the normal ending btw.

I'm at the end of the game and I cant even find the motivation to finish it. Been almost a week since I played but I just dont give a shit anymore. Fuck this game delete that shit. Don't waste anymore time on it like i did. It don't get better.

>did this
>fired it up again a year later
>played nothing else for two and a half weeks
Hollow Knight has an amazing atmosphere buildup that also serves as a great pleb filter for ADD spergs like you and me, user.

>"end of the game"
bro do you even pound hot moth pussy

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Shovel Knight is trash

>grind money just to get a functioning map
AHAHAHAHAHAHA

...but you can see them all clearly
do you need glasses, user?

since this is the resident hollow knight thread on the board i need some suggestions for a panic button build
like, stalwart shell, quick heal, baldur's shell, thorns, shroom, crest and grubsong

The game itself is fine, I'll start with you on the map part.
It may be a metroidvania, but dying and having to restart half an hours worth of progress (Because the game tells you jack on where to go) is discouraging whether that's the point of it or not.
I think I got past the first hornet fight before losing interest after wandering aimlessly for an hour.

>Its like saying Zelda gameplay is boring.
It is.

SotN is eternally overrated you fucking dumb cunt.

Super Metroid is the real GOAT. God I fucking wish the metroidvania genre would get renamed to metroidlikes.

First couple of hours are definitely the worst. It gets better, and consistently harder too.

After hornet fight there is literally one way to go. Like literally one way.

Actually there are three ways to go.

Yeah but it doesn't tell you.
I get that that's my fault for being used to hand holding but still.
I want to love this game, I really do but I just suck at this stuff. I got lost in sotn and metroid so it's just an endless torment for me.

hit the boss until it dies
fuck off filesize limit

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Fuck off SoTN is just a worse version of the gba titles
Also piss easy

Check again, unless you think 90% of enemy's body being obscured is clearly being seen

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This.
I really recommend you keep playing until you get to the city of tears, it picks up a lot then

He isnt gonna break sequence user nor pay like 2k geo to get early in the mine.

He shouldn't be the first boss you fight (I think he was 3rd for me?), but he's also one of the easier ones in the game too.

good thing in the next second it moves and you can see it
this might be the most petty thing I've ever seen anyone on Yea Forums complain about in a game

How the fuck the game doesnt tell you? Just go to unexplored rooms that the map fucking shows you.

Reminder that the game tells you where to fucking go if you just pay attention. You literally don't need to upgrade the map and just rely on the base shit Cornifer gives you for the first two hours.

Ok by "doesn't tell you" I literally mean no npc tells you.
I tried using the map but I somehow still get lost and manage to go in circles (Surprising I know)
I'm seeing a lot of people say it picks up at the city of tears, so I'm hoping I can just trudge through it till I get to that point.

Is this bait? Enemies aren't gonna let you waltz on their head all day. I refuse to believe anyone would say this after getting past even one new map zone.

You forgot the most important part of your post, OP. How can you type all of that out and not include Hollow Knight thread

user, there is no shame on using the compass, just pick a route you havent explored and knock yourself out, die, geo doesnt matter, when you respawn the map will start getting filled automatically. Just avoid deepnest because you might unironically get stuck forever there.

damn you might be retarded
it's okay games aren't for everyone

I thought Shovel Knight was pretty boring. Its pretty good in its own right, and super inventive during the time before pixelshit was the biggest trend in Indie titles. I just think Hollow Knight has more of an identity.

Why would you need that the npcs tell you where to go (and the do, actually) if all you need is to keep exploring, it's not like the game has puzzles you need to resolve.

Based and redpilled. Agree 100%.

I thought you could only fill the map if you sat on a bench?

Because I suck at exploring and need a second npc to literally drag me to where I'm supposed to go

Thats what I said.

>Its annoying that enemies, projectiles, and such can be obscured through visual effects and objects and feels like bad design especially in a game with touch damage
Why is this so controversial for me to say? Do you defend those teleporting enemies who appear right in the middle of your dash or jump? Do these things ruin the game? No, again I will repeat I like the game. WTF is wrong with you HK fanboys?

It's kinda boring, but not a bad game. It's just not for me. Too much backtracking, too much wandering around trying to find where to go next, then again I've never liked Metroidvanias. On the other hand, I loved Celeste and Shovel Knight and played through them from start to finish with barely any breaks.

How? Le ebin bug man go kills nearly identical looking bug men.

>thinking about MOTH PUSSY

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The way you worded it made it seem like it fills when you di-
WAIT
You respawn at benches right?
That counts to the compass? I thought you had to make it to the bench *alive* for it to count.

Shovel Knight has real platforming. Hollow Knight does not.

And I >>'ed the wrong person way to go retard

How the fuck do you get lost in the first few moments of the game before double jump?

The first two maps Cornifer gives you literally points you directly to where the bosses are.
Now you have to poke around a little bit to find the entrance to Greenpath but the Crossroads will almost always reward for each dead end you find.
After that you get to read the sign before Greenpath which already tells you that you need to go to a "fungal" area after.
Then there's Hornet which you just fucking follow around like a dog wanting to hump its owners legs.
Not to mention the game literally has fucking signs everywhere you can follow. One's for the city especially.
And if that wasn't enough you can talk to Elderbug again so that he can give you advice on where to go.

People are just pretending to be retarded, user. No one is actually this dumb.

Jesus christ user.

You're full of shit, the game doesn't hold your hand this much in the beginning.

It does you retard. You just need to pay attention.

Shit's all there. The training wheels come off only when you find walljump and even then if you find the dreamnail, the game will still give you three god damn blips on the map to go to.

It literally does. Every map you buy has the location of the area boss on it and there's signposts all over the place pointing you toward benches, stagways, etc. You must be blind, or retarded, or both.

And by "real platforming", you mean the shovel pogo, which Hollow Knight has too. Hollow Knight also has advanced moving options like every other goddamn metroidvania.

I never played it but this is easily one of the most shilled games on Yea Forums. Second to maybe Gravity Rush or Hat in Time.

Compared to pixel man hits other pixelmen that looks identical to enemies found in other games

I'm glad we're finally slowly going back to endless falseflag threads for HK. I was beginning to miss those.

Really makes feel right at home.

I'm so fucking bad at this game. When I got to the part where you fight like five rolling beetles in a row, I kept dying over and over. Eventually, I just upgraded my nail and brute forced it.

A lot of people are calling your post bait, and it may be, but I honestly didn't enjoy HK that much either. It was really frustrating, not because of the difficulty, but because of the way so many exploration and progression-related things in the game were designed. I hated how the game went against so many regular Metroidvania genre conventions in ways that just made the game tedious and a chore to play. Here are three:

1/ You know how in most Metroidvania games you can see your map slowly unfolding in real time? You know how this helped you navigate the world and see which areas you've visited and which you haven't so that you wouldn't get lost? Well, in HK, your map only expands whenever you sit on a fucking bench. It makes exploration so terrible because you may often just accidentally revisit places you already explored because you won't get a sense of your bearings until you sit again on a bench.
2/ You know how you can see your position on a map at any time in other Metroidvania games? Well, in HK, you have to fucking buy and equip a goddamn charm that will allow you to see your character's position on a map.
3/ You know how in most Metroidvania games you get character upgrades that stick on you forever and add a sense of progression? Well, in HK, you have a limited number of upgrades you can carry with you at any given time. Shit like faster swing speeds or faster walking speeds would be something your character would gain permanently in other games. In HK, faster swing speeds and faster walking speeds is shit you have to equip at the expense of other upgrades. That's why I feel HK has a terrible sense of Metroidvania power progression.

I got a shit ton of other complaints, but those are three of the biggest ones. I beat that black egg Artorias ripoff boss and got like 75% completion on the map. For months I've been meaning to get back into the game, but I just can't find myself the motivation to get back into it.

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Hollow knight is a game that's meant for you to get lost in. If you don't like the downtime in the game where it doesn't really do anything special in any particular area and you don't get a feeling of wonder, it really just means that you aren't that much for exploratory shit

>this game is boring
>no, it is not
>make an actual counterpoint you fucking faggot

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The map system will be eternally divisive. People either totally love it or utterly loathe it.

I agree about the map. Not having map access is straight up unfun. Your point about the upgrades is retarded though. You do get permanent upgrades, but you also get to customize and specialize your character with charms on top of that.

I disagree with all of those.

My big problem with the map is that it isn't as specific or detailed as other maps in the genre and even just entering a room will somehow map that entire area once you sit on a bench. I wish you could zoom even more to show the actual corridors you're going through.

if you had to rate the white palace in terms of difficulty on a scale of 1-10 (10 being hardest) what would you give it?

where would path of pain fall on that same scale?

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4,5

8,5

fugg

i must ascend

This is my evaluation post Pantheon hyperbolic time training, not when I did them (Though path of pain would still be similar if not the same). I have a better grasp of the Knight movements, pogos and the likes

Do people actually have problems with the map?

I did not notice the signs for benches, stations an areas until I was in city of tears or so

I just thought they were part of background

I started playing Hollow Knight a few nights ago, and im loving it.

I like it cause bugs. I wish more people made probug games.

It get's better after 10 hours. Keep playing

That is insanely cute. Any more like it?

I loved Hollow Knight but I honestly couldn't get into Metroid or SoTN. It's not a question of age. Planescape or Fallout 2 are among my favorite games and I also replayed lots of the console games I missed out on like Chrono Trigger, Earthbound or FF VI and really enjoyed them.

Map is completely subjective, I personally draw it irl but I'm a dungeon crawler fag so I'm a special case. Also develop a bit more of orientation man, you sound like a legit female.
For the upgrades, the game has a TON of permanent ones, and the charms develop different playstyles, you can go full mage build or full nailmaster or full tank, is basically character customization, not development, it's like saying that you don't like the fact that pokemons can only learn 4 moves.

Hollow night looks like a dumb ori and the blind forest clone and ori and the blind forest was ass

You obviously haven't played Shovel Knight because you acquire 2 other movement abilities with him, and then the other characters play completely different. There's also lots of cool stage gimmicks like rockets that you have to ride.

I stopped after 8 hours of playing. The first three of which I used being lost rotating around the map. I started the game very excited about upgrades and hard bosses, but it turned out to be a chore to progress even a little bit. ironically the game feels very hollow and unrewarding

yes, that's whats keeping me away as well. looks like a cheap game made in flash.

>Graphics are a gimmick

What is that supposed to mean you absolute fucking moron?

I've played both SotN and Super Metroid. Hollow Knight is better.

Cry harder faggot.

Super Metroid will always have a special place in my heart because it allows your autism to do a reverse boss order run on it.

>graphics are a gimmick
???????????

I 100%d this game in less than 20 hours...?

It’s 1600 essence for the awoken dream nail. You gotta dream nail the white soldier guy next to the Stagway in Ancient Basin to get the other half of the Kingsoul. Then go back to the Abyss and at the very bottom, you can dreamnail something else. Then you’ll have the thing you need to get the true final boss

I like metroidvanias and Im considering buying it but the art style reminds me too much of those myspace emo jpgs from back in the day and that annoys me

Are you a genius of some sort? I didn't have much trouble with bosses and 100% took me about 40, most of which was just figuring out where to go

The only thing I wished from Hollow Knight were more obtuse and obscure secrets/puzzles. The potential was there but the devs clearly didn't want to go too hard on it.

HK has its problems...
But those aren't ones of those

It has nothing JRPG-ishabout its design,

One of the main problems with HK - lack of proper skill-checks on the zone entrances - you can open up ~75% of the map with just walljump and dash, if you missed the gardens and didnt collect the double jump, which is surprisingly easy to do - then you can pass through most zones without actually collecting things of importance in those areas and thus being unable to actually progress.

If you collect the first few movement abilities then the game takes 20 hours, miss double jump and you cna wander off, only to have to backtrack and then re-explore almost the whole map again.

SuperMetroid and most other games of the genre avoid it by placing explicit "ability test" obstacles that clearly show you the necessity of an ability to enter the next zone where this ability is required for completing the main task of the area (usually collecting next ability). And can not be bypassed unless you explicitly know what you are doing.

If you unironically need to "grind" for geo at any point in the game, you need to git gud

Guess metroidvania just isn't your style of game, it has all the core aspects of the genre and jumps from quiet exploration to bullet hell bosses. The environment I found well designed, I enjoyed being in the first few areas but places like deepnest made me want to leave asap.
Level design was fine, you would get a power and have a place to test it and after they would put you through harder areas with it, you would see places you cant go right away and when you find the power you need you would want to go check it out. It is a slower game where you need explore and take your time searching for upgrades

>One of the main problems with HK - lack of proper skill-checks on the zone entrances - you can open up ~75% of the map with just walljump and dash
Yeah it's both a strength and weakness of the game. Some enjoy how it just opens up immensely once walljump is unlocked but at the same time it also means most late game areas, barring the White Palace, weren't designed with double jump/shadow dash in mind.

Shadow Dash seems to primarily be designed for combat rather than finding new areas. Especially once you get the Charm that goes with it. Double jump too, honestly.

I think Notches should've been easier to acquire

Attached: Charms.png (988x377, 645K)

until Silksong then we''ll felate it or shit on it

what nail based charms you got on there

Set it down for a while, came pretty close to opening white palace. Should I just start a new file?

I don't think it's that they were hard to aquire, it's that there's a long stretch of the game where you get none.
The first two Salubra notches as well as the Fungal Wastes notch can be gotten pretty quickly.
Then you'll get nothing for ages.
There should've been a 12th Notch added that you can get before the Grimm, Trial and Fog Canyon one, probably in Crystal Peak.

Just overload bro, you aren't a casual right?

this is my first time playing the game

Yeah grand battle is a much better indie rpg.

I mean you only play 1 person in this lmao

I got one from beating to big fungi and from having enough Charms for Salubra's first notch. I've got Thorns, Spell Twister and the near death one as well as everything the small bug is selling

For normal exploration, I generally stuck to the single-notch charms. Whenever I died to a boss, I switched out for something more specialized. The Nailmaster one was a lot less useful than I thought it'd be.

I can't really decide on a good charm setup.

Good for what? What options do you have?

All of them, I think. At least, I have forty of them now. Well, 39.5, anyway. I'm just not sure if I prefer a nail-oriented setup or a spell-oriented one.

I thought turtles were slow?

Spell build is probably the strongest build in the game. Even stronger than what quick slash/strength gives you.

Then again you can always go full cheese build with the minions.

Flies seem decent but the spiders feel pretty worthless. They're too slow and can't fly so they rarely manage to touch the bosses that move around a lot. Even if they do, the damage they do doesn't seem worth the notch cost.

Sprintmaster and Grubsong buff the spiders a lot. Especially the grub charm which pretty much turns them into a budget Kingsoul.

>tfw can't go back to Hollow Knight because i fell down the Spelunky rabbit hole
fug
Maybe after I beat hell, There's no way I can be good at both at the same time
2400 deaths haha fuck

The game has been shilled nonstop here by the fags who made it, and it's become on of those games you aren't allowed to criticize

>all I've done so far is fucking grind money just to get a functioning map
What? I never needed to grind. Why are you grinding?

>implying three devs too busy trying to make a game will have enough time to shill here

Are you supposed to get the double jump early ?
I already have the dash from Hornet and the Mantis Claw, currently trying to beat the pink boss dude in the mines, and I still don't have double jump.

Also do you unlock some kind of flying later ? I seem to remember seeing footage of your character flying around but I might be wrong.

So do you think they're going to mix up things like how Hornet collects Silk (Soul), health and how she gets back all her stuff after dying. Fighting your shade and collecting mask shards won't feel as interesting 2nd time around IMO esecially when they appear to have already changed stuff like how you heal

Attached: cool bugs don't look at eruptions.jpg (2289x2212, 727K)

Flying is in the area you are in currently. Double jump is extremely late into the game and takes flying to get.

Honestly the most interesting part of that trailer was Hornet's healing mechanic. That big mechanic shift will result in a lot of cascading changes across the entire game.

>when they appear to have already changed stuff like how you heal
The instant heal for full silk might be a charm/crest. There is a default-looking focus healing animation for Hornet.

Good, now go play actually good games, like Axiom Verge and Knytt Underground.

Thank you

>There is a default-looking focus healing animation for Hornet.
She does that animation while she's in the air in the trailer.

Christ at least recommend actual good games like ESA. Knytt is cool though.

I thought it looked exceptional art-wise, and I felt no requirement to grind, simply because the maze-like design forced me to accumulate stuff anyway before I finally found the next place to go. Even the combat was pretty snappy and fun.

I think the true substantial problem with it is that it is not much more than we were playing 20+ years ago. If you've played all the classic slashers and platformers, this is just one more with a nice modern design. That's it. I suspect all the people overhyping it and playing it day-in, day-out are casuals who never played all the classics already. It's surely one of the good or even great games in this style, but that style was done to death, decades ago.

>everything i disagree with is bait
>my bandwagon opinion is the only correct one

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Or maybe people actually like the game.

I know, how scandalous, people with DIFFERENT OPINIONS, on the INTERNET!?

Haters free thread

if there is a default heal we haven't seen it because what she does in the trailer is a midair instant heal of at least 3 hearts. The Knight can't do any of those things with his healing

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if you didn't speedrun HK one-handed and blindfolded in

Attached: 1552492623509.jpg (1200x1696, 548K)

also the fact she just moves faster than the Knight and appears to have more than 2 movement speeds like it

We make bait OPs on purpose so that retarded haters will bump the threads for free.

Nigga please. If you can't deal with Yea Forums shitposting your game then don't even bother.

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I played a couple of hours and thought it was kinda boring too. I'm not saying it's bad but I just didn't think it was that much fun

None of the "classics" have anything like the freedom HK gives you in exploration. Even Super Metroid has a pretty clear intended default path of progression - sure, you can bypass that with advanced movement tricks, but it's always pretty clear that you're deliberately bypassing the simple "normal" path whenever you do so. Hollow Knight after the second upgrade or so gives you a ridiculous amount of freedom to just strike out in whatever direction you fancy and be rewarded for it often not just with a secret room with a cheeky missile upgrade before you head back, but with entire new areas and bosses that you'd reach at a completely different point in the game's progression if you just had chosen a different direction to focus on.

That sounds pretty cool, I didn't get far enough to appreciate/realize that. So it's most notable for adding true free-roaming to the metroidvania design? Is that actually a significant addition though, when by definition you're so caved in to these narrow paths that you are rarely reminded of the freedom (e.g. compared to an expansive vista game) and your own individual play through could be equivalent to a linear game, even if other players might be taking it differently?

I'd say it's pretty significant. Although anecdotal me and two of my other buds played through this after picking it up late on the switch last year. We'd always report back to each other after a playthrough to talk about what we did.

The most surprising part is before you even get the ability that makes probably 80% of the game accessible we were already having divergent routes. And once we got that particular ability, we pretty much surprised each other at how different each of our experiences were.

I mean, I certainly noticed it while playing. It's made pretty clear every time there's a path you pass up on arbitrarily, then after exploring a whole new area in the other direction, come back thinking "oh, I must have accidentally gone the along the correct path first, without heading to the dead-end-but-here's-some-treasure room", only to find that no, it's a whole new area with two bosses and a new path that doubles back around to a locked door I'd found and then forgotten about two areas back. It's expecially clear because it makes you mark the locations you're coming back for later yourself with map pins rather than adding it all automatically.

Both those games are pretty shit compared to the games they influenced, especially SotN

>all the butthurt zoomers that have never played a metroidvania before HK seething at this post
Based. I'm sure it makes them furious knowing that Super Metroid and SotN will forever be remembered as classics, while no one outside of their autistic fandom cares about this indie meme shit. Hollow Knight is literally Undertale 2.0; no one will remember it in a few years.

If you think modern fortnite-playing kids know or care what metroid or castlevania is, you are fucking delusional.

haha look at her go

>I'd get more enjoyment out of SOTN if it wasn't so fucking braindead easy
Why not do an ironman run? It's partially an adventure game, so the action doesn't need to be difficult.

All the retards replying to this as if they actually played either of those games at release lol

HKfags are sad. Can't like a pleasant enough indie game without touting that it's a remarkable experience despite having decades-old gameplay.

Does anyone use the nail arts, I feel like there’s never a time in fights where I want to stand around for a 1 second to use it. The charm makes it faster but still just watching boss patterns take up too much of my small brain. I guess using them when a boss staggers is good.

The slash is good for killing Stalking Devouts.

Based on pogoing, none. Thats done as early as you enter forgotten crossroads

100% agree about Hollow Knight. I went in expecting medieval Bug themed Metroid, but got 2d Souls instead. I have no idea why it's so popular, because what I tried of it was a chore to play.

City of Tears is when I really got into hollow knight. I'm not as gaga about it as a lot of people, but if there's any game that's going to get circlejerked this isn't a bad choice.

lol stay mad

I think the appeal of this game is exploration and once you've done that it's the fact that anything can be done or beaten if you're willing to analyse the patterns and timing. Basically it gives you the feeling that you're getting good. The lore helps but not that much IMO

>I think the appeal of this game is exploration

It certainly is for me, which makes it a great shame that the DLC is just boss fights

It's absolutely nothing like Dark Souls other than the shade gimmick.

Look on the bright side, instead of just a small campaign you're pretty much getting an entire new kingdom to explore via Silksong.

Why do people assume this is some sort of """""soulslike""""""? Fucking journos.

>SuperMetroid and most other games of the genre avoid it by placing explicit "ability test" obstacles that clearly show you the necessity of an ability to enter the next zone where this ability is required for completing the main task of the area (usually collecting next ability). And can not be bypassed unless you explicitly know what you are doing.
This right here is why I still say Super Metroid has yet to be surpassed. It's just as if not more open than Hollow Knight, but only if you're already reasonably skilled at the game.

The difficulty progression is also a lot better, the game takes its time to make sure you have a solid grasp on the controls and combat and doesn't really ramp up the difficulty too much until you have most of your basic moveset available. A brand new player will still probably die 2 to 5 times per area the first time through, but there's no real punishment for dying so it's not particularly frustrating.

Hollow Knight's death system actively makes the game harder when you die, because at least early on the enemies drop so little Geo that if you fail your corpse run you're set back for a pretty long time if you don't drop everything to spend your money every time you can afford something. While it's kinda like Dark Souls' system on a surface level, Dark Souls' system is actually set up so that when you do finally get past the place you were stuck you could have 2 to 5 times as many souls as that segment was meant to give, making the game a little easier in the long run for players who struggle but don't want to just summon someone to essentially play the game for them. Hollow Knight's death system and enemy drop rates combine to make the game easier for players who are already doing well, and harder for players who are struggling.

The death system is pretty much directly ripped from the Souls series, just without the subtle details that make Souls' death system give struggling players a small boost without them realizing the game is making itself easier for them.

Jesus fuck just give me Silksong already you aussie cunts.

I've been saying the same things for months, but it seems like a lie said enough times can become a truth for plenty of people.

If enough people like a thing others tend to like it too, no matter what the true game's worth.

fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Désir_mimétique

People loving Hollow Knight and Ori tend to say "I don't really like metroidvanias, but this one is the best game of the genre". It's really tiring for fans of the genre.

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Yes, like I said: the shade gimmick and nothing else. And it is a gimmick, because unlike Dark Souls, it's virtually impossible to lose it, because there's very little reason you'd ever die to non-boss enemies which unlike in Dark Souls are not very aggressive or dangerous, and for boss fights the shade is always accessible without activating the boss. Further, unlike Dark Souls, lost currency does not directly correspond to lost power, because you don't spend it on level ups, it's just a normal shop currency. The actual structure of the game or the combat systems are nothing like Dark Souls.

why the fuck did I die to NMK Grimm in the last pantheon, so far I always made it to the Pure Vessel. Fuck, I might be getting worse.

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>still banging my head against the full binding pantheon of hallownest
AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

HOW THE FUCK DO YOU BEAT THE COLLECTOR

Or maybe it's not a case of you being a wise man enlightened by the candle of truth and the only one who can truly *see* amidst a sea of blind fools, you just happen to have an unpopular opinion and are trying to justify that to yourself.

Yeh I prefer to play Grand Battle

I’ve only ever lost my geo once in my 2.5 playthroughs even though I’m pretty bad. The fact that the ghost generally stays outside of the boss arena when you die to the boss is such a big deal. It sucks ass that in dark souls if you die to a boss it feels like you need to keep slamming your head against it or just sacrifice you’re souls.

Mad cause bad

What you like is the setting, the graphics, the beg aesthetics, and maybe...maybe, the lackluster 2D action platforming.

But HK lacks, in the upgrade department, the level design department, and it's terribly unoriginal. Saying that HK is the best metroidvania ever made is like saying Okami/Darksiders are the best zelda games.
You like it because the setting appeals to you, but if you break it down to its components, it's terribly safe and is only memed on for its length and its price.

WOW AN INDIE GAME THAT IS 40 HOURS LONG FOR 15 BUCKS. WHAT A BARGAIN.

Fuck all of you.

none, I booted up a new game to show you how easy it is

Thanks for informing me about what I like, wise frogman.

You know that just asserting "it's lackluster, if you actually knew how to think about it properly you'd know I'm right" isn't the same thing as an argument, right?

It shares much more with Wonder Boy than with Metroid, but Metroid is the one that took off so that's the one we use to describe every exploratory game.

Metroidvanias are my favourite genre and I have played most of them. HK is my favourite. Try again, lad.

what I like is the game
what you like is putting people down for what they like
feel free to never do it again

>no iframes aside from maybe four or five on descending dark
>not an rpg
go play salt and sanctuary, retard

Too bad OP doesn't get (You)s

What is with all these people saying if you like HK you don't like other metroidvanias? Like everyone and their mom hasn't already beaten the staples of metroidvania to death at this point.
>oh you think you're hardcore I bet you've never played one of the top 5 most popular SNES games of all time it's a real obscure gem you've probably never heard of it casual

The upgrades are charms. In addition you get
3 spells
3 sword skills
3 base movement skills (dash,walljump,flying)
+2 advanced movement (invul dash, double jump) which give a direction where you can go.

They made it even so that you can do passages in a more difficult way without the skills which is good design. I.E. time sword slashes to pogo over enemies / spikes instead of using the flying skill / double jump to reach sections. The game rewards you for trying but lets you go casual too.

Damn nice. Can you progress in spelunky solo and then have friends co op join you or do they have to be separate save files?

Would you try a real life path of pain

>Every map you buy has the location of the area boss
definitely not true for late game areas like kingdoms edge or ancient basin

You guys are cool

>Hornet depowered building herself back up to battle readiness by Macgyvering stuff she find in this new land and collecting enough soul/silk to get back her abilities

or

>Hornet simply getting stronger and being far more than you could have handled in the previous game

Attached: hornet powering up.gif (403x373, 124K)

It's a prequel

Also she's a jobber in HK

>let's you go casual
Most of those abilities are locked behind bosses, platforming challenges or sums of geo casuals aren't just carrying around

Shut up, mossbag

Who is Absolute bullshit talking to

I though that maybe being captured and brough out of hallownest stripped her of her power, and entering the silksong's zone gave her an oportunity to use her silk and escape the cage.

>unlike Dark Souls, it's virtually impossible to lose it, because there's very little reason you'd ever die to non-boss enemies which unlike in Dark Souls are not very aggressive or dangerous
I found the regular enemies in Hollow Knight to be way more dangerous than the ones in Dark Souls 1 because you can't just turtle behind a shield or pick them off from afar as easily. Fighting the shade on top of the enemies I died to the first time with less resources than I had the first time usually just lead to me being perpetually broke other than right after I killed a boss or found a chest/geo pile.

>lost currency does not directly correspond to lost power, because you don't spend it on level ups, it's just a normal shop currency.
The things you can buy with Geo are arguably more useful than the things you could spend souls on, since levelups in Dark Souls only gave minor but still noticeable boosts to your character. For more major boosts you generally needed to spend upgrade items that were harder to find/farm than souls but were also not lost on death. All of this is on top of the fact that it is way easier to get some use out of your souls in Dark Souls right away because you can spend them at every bonfire. In Hollow Knight a lot of the rewards you find in the world are just money that you have to backtrack to the store to get any benefit from, and if you die then you may as well have found nothing at all. All of this combined to make the world feel very tedious and unrewarding to explore because most of the things I found meant either another repetitive backtracking session to the store or losing it and feeling worse than if I had found nothing at all in the first place.

>locked behind bosses
if you can't beat a boss you can't play a game anyway. Casual just means not a top player due to lack of dedication or skill. Truly incompetent people that can't do anything aren't players at all.

so you saying she unlocks new powers or gets her regular powers back. If the latter then why isn't instantly back at 100%. Broken/recycled Needle, lost all her gear or what

I have no idea, just making wild speculations.
I just really want it so be after the event of the previous game, just so that we may get some sort of conclusion to it. But a prequel where she gets her powers would be fine too

I know i should let you circle jerk as much as you want, but these threads never cease to trigger me. Have fun buglets.

have fun with your no doubt impeccable taste in vidya, only playing the finest games with absolutely nothing wrong with them

Tell us what makes Super Metroid and Symphony of the night better than Hollow knight?

I helped the Hollow Knight kill himself, what now?

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Congrats, you won. Now you can enjoy some other game.

>everyone but the top players are casuals
kek

No, it's: none of the top players are casuals. Sounds similar but is quite different. Difference is there are nolive shitters who can't improve but not a single top player is a casual because getting good requires time.

BRUNO

Not that user but Super Metroid's approach to difficulty, (lack of) punishment for dying, better rewards for exploration, and good use of skill gates to keep new players out of areas they shouldn't go to yet while still letting skilled players mostly go where they please made it a much more enjoyable experience for me. SotN I found to be honestly pretty mediocre, but not actively frustrating like I found Hollow Knight.

Shadow Complex and Zero Mission are the two other games that I feel did metroidvania about as well as Super did.

>and good use of skill gates to keep new players out of areas they shouldn't go to yet

That's exactly what makes it worse. Hollow Knight doesn't have a One True Path that, sure, you can deviate from if you really push it, but you still always know that there's a clear place you're "supposed" to be going at every point, it just sets you upon the map to pick a direction and see what you find, then come back and see that every other direction also had all kinds of crazy areas and bosses that would all have been equally "correct" paths to go down.

>better rewards for exploration
dude I love missiles

>Shovel Knight
>before pixelshit was the biggest trend in Indie titles
Is that a fucking joke?

>all I've done so far is fucking grind money just to get a functioning map
Holy shit, that user yesterday was right. Retards really think they have to buy everything that is available at the start of the map and waste hours and hours grinding on the first area.
I think I've been underestimating how fucking retarded these shitposters can be.

>level design
You guys always claim the level design is bad, but I've yet to see someone explaining why and what exactly is wrong with it and how it could be improved.

I actually agree, I appreciate the effort that was put into it and the art and music is nice but I dropped it a while after fighting Hornet because it was getting really boring.

You DO need to buy all salubra and sly useless charms to be able to buy new notches, unless you want to wait lategame

Finally, hollow knight is extremely slow and boring. Everything is bland and uninspiring. It takes forever to actually do something interesting in this game.
This game is mediocre at its best and doesn't deserve its accolades IMO. Soul master boss was the only segment which was impressive in the game, the rest was tripe.

You're not the only one op. I tried getting into this game after playing Dead Cells. Man this game is a snooze fest compared to how crazy Dead Cells can get.

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Not really, I've been doing a Steel Soul run recently and I only bought what I was going to use, completely ignored shit charms and only bought the Shaman Stone from Salubra.
You still get enough charms from your exploration to get the notches from Salubra, unless you're too bad at finging shit.

Even if you want to get their charms as quick as possible that doesn't justify farming for them in the first area, which again is utterly retarded and defeats the purpose of having merchants in a game, specially if these idiots then come here complaining that it took them 6 hours to get out of Crossroads because they were farming for geo.
It's like this is the first game with a money system they've ever played in their lives.

Now draw one for aria of sorrow / sotn and compare it side by side so that these HK faggots can understand what a good level design looks like.

literally every platformer ever. Well some like mario the spikes are just empty air but you die when you fall down.

That's just a generalization mixed with a simplification.
You can do that with any game.
Also, it still doesn't explain what is wrong with it.

Attached: SotN level design.png (450x413, 10K)

It's easy once you know where every thing is

nice megaman screenshot

Yeah, no, fuck off with this scrub argument. Not everyone here is bad at exploring.
On my first run, when I got the Collector's map I only had one Grub left to find. And I found all of the charms blind except for the Lifeblood Core.

I don't know why you guys bother with these comparisons when Castlevania has infamous enemy corridors.

Attached: aria.png (2098x832, 16K)

That still doesn't justify being so retarded that you think you must farm for hours so you can empty the stores before leaving the starting area of the map. And then come here crying that they got bored, the fuck.

how does it feel to live as a stereotype

but you're literally showcasing how other people make you so mad you dislike what they like,
you're like a teenage girl who can't listen to a band cause her ex liked them. It's embarassing.

What I really want is fucking morons to stop pitching it as 2D Dark Souls just because it has a bleak atmosphere and muh lore. Just fucking confess to new players that it is a god damn Metroidvania platformer game.

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Agreed. I find this game to be boring shit honestly.

Not a very meaty comment, but there you go. Boring shit.

>no it isn't
is a conclusion, not a point

Why did the thread start with an elaborate conclusion and buzzwords then?
>no, you have to defend it because I say so!!
Why should anyone put more effort into their response than your lousy excuse of a shitpost?

>we're already back to nonstop funposting threads
Hoo boy. The wait for Silksong is going to be long.

I'm not sure because I haven't ever played co-op.
Progress is largely non-existent in terms of unlockables, it's mostly just you getting better at the game.You can unlock three shortcuts to later areas but you'd be better off starting from the Mines anyway.
There appears to be some sort of tool to get spelunky to work with online co-op, i'm not sure what it's called

>Uh yeah the game is just like, bad and boring?
Maybe if people phrased their opinions to make them seem less retarded this wouldn't happen

I have about 96% completion and I just found the Godmaster dlc last night. This is going to suck, isn't it?

It depends on how much you enjoy the bosses.

I do like the bosses, but doing so many in a row without dying sounds like a nightmare. Hell, I've still not beat the Trial of Fools.

The main pantheons are a step up in difficulty after the first two. And then the final one is pretty hard.

And then there's the radiant fights and the all-binding pantheon runs, which are bullshit, and some of the hardest shit I've ever done in any game.

Attached: hollow knight 2-28-2019 7-27 AM.png (1920x1200, 1.13M)

>posting HoG screenshots in English

jesus, do you have to fight all of them in the last pantheon or what?!

This is my legitimate HoG wall.

>Marmu is one of the non-radiants
Please tell me this is a meme of some sort.

>fight them all in the last pantheon

Yep. And you fight the harder version of them. Like the Collector releases primal aspids instead of normal ones, Mantis Lords instead of fighting one and then two, you fight one and then all three. And even a new version of Nosk, which is much, much easier than the normal one for some reason.

I don't know what you want, OP, besides (you)s of course. You started an argument with an opinion, so you should only expect other opinions

but you can do them one by one or is it a boss rush?

You can fight them one by one in the hall of gods you practice against them. The actual pantheons are boss rushes with some healing and benches to change charms every once in a while.

>so far is fucking grind money just to get a functioning map
faggots always cry about this. if you had a brain you could easily adjust by actually paying attention to your surroundings - it's really not hard. you know this is how people used maps in real fucking life right?
anyway go ahead and delete it. it straight up expects more than a faggot like you can give it.

>with some healing and benches to change charms every once in a while
Oh, I thought it was nonstop. That actually feels more doable for me. Do the benches also work as checkpoints, or does death force you to redo it all?

The community desperately pleaded the devs to make bench checkpoints a thing. It never happened.

its like megaman vs metroid.
megaman was always better.

Honestly the game should have left the dreamers unmarked. The descriptions of their locations were already more than enough.

>graphics are a gimmick
What the absolute fuck