Two years later I’m still baffled that this happened...

>sonic fans desperate to blame bad sonic games on the realistic humans

Yeah that’s why those games are unplayable glitchy messes.

This, I would've preferred the colorful city with Mario-styled humans that looks like it came straight out of the GCN era.

Attached: 492DEF74-5EDA-48BD-ACDF-25DE0E4753E5.jpg (883x479, 145K)

I wish we had more Mario characters than just Mario, Peach, Luigi, Bowser, Toad, Toadette, and Yoshi. Pauline was a good step in the right direction as well but I really would love to se a 3D Mario game with an ensemble cast for once

That's so lame and boring. I wouldn't even bother with him going to the city then. Which is probably why they haven't done it, since we really don't need more human characters than the main cast.

This kind of shit has Shigeru Miyamoto written all over it.

Attached: 389B0A25-E115-4A59-B522-8FBC598B451D.png (1334x750, 2.39M)

Aw c'mon user

Attached: 8C7788B9-CE70-457E-A784-1CAA6D0F1297.jpg (492x468, 80K)

I’d like every character to have a point. Forces had a ensemble Sonic cast and most did fuck all. Mario’s the Hero Peach is kidnapped and Bowser is responsible. Characters like Wario and Donkey Kong need a reason to care like Luigi and captain Toad and characters like Daisy and Waluigi need a point

Wut

Attached: D87378F8-0B6A-4FA5-B4E3-736F40D55876.png (749x858, 768K)

OP is dumb.
Real humans don't have anything to both series.
Mario odyssey was a good game because it was well designed and made.

Sonic06 had so many bad design ideas and was so glitchy. This game was so shit, AVGN made 2 episodes about this game. Maybe the only one good thing is princess being a nice fap material.

Odyssey had the theme of travelling, why not have characters appear in each location with their own little side quest and a reason for them to be there?

lol madonna

Miyamoto would NEVER allow other stylized humans besides the main cast

Jfc that waist
I agree. Humans in either Mario or Sonic arent a problem, the problem with Sonic has much to do with other design choices (gameplay, physics, etc.)

because of the Nintendo Bonus

>be lazy
>make a couple of generic PS2-era businessmen NPCs
>copy and paste, just change the palette
>create a generic gray city

"lmao, that's hilarious, Nintendo is so creative!"

this right here looks so much better it's not even funny

Attached: Sonic Unleashed sucks though.png (490x373, 263K)

This, the problem with 06 wasn't the humans, it was everything else. Every Sonic game since adventure has had humans of some sort.

He had little to no involvement with the game.

It's a joke. It's meant to be weird and funny. Sonic 06 plays it straight.

Sonic Unleashed's style was a desperate attempt to look like Pixar and instead looked like shit.

Not every game unless you count Eggman. Other humans haven't been in the series since Unleashed

Still the best looking humans in Sonic besides Adventure 1's anime styled ones

>seomthing that looks good has miyamoto written all over it
wow, i love miyamoto now

>Every Sonic game since adventure has had humans of some sort.
>Heroes
>Colors
>Generations
>Lost World
>Forces
Humans haven't been in Sonic games for over a decade now.

Sonic's problem is that it took the whole humans/real world aspect seriously whereas in Mario the contrast is part of the humor

it also helps that Mario's design is more simple/general and works in nearly any environment he's set in

Attached: SMO-ND0913-SCRN22.jpg (1280x720, 253K)

You are and idiot. People don't like Nintendo games because "Muh new mario game or Muh game is made by Nintendo and it is enough to". Nobody gives a shit about PS2 humans in odyssey because game overall is just good and fun.

>it also helps that Mario's design is more simple/general and works in nearly any environment he's set in
Sonic's design isn't any more complex than Mario's, and the Sonic series has also had much more environmental variety compared to Mario. The only issue, like you said, is that Sonic never played up the weirdness of seeing neon-colored rubberhose characters walking among regular humans. I think the only game that acknowledged it to some degree was Sonic Adventure.

Odyssey had loads of minor characters though, they just weren't recurring unless they had some mechanical role to play.

>game overall is just good and fun.
are you sure you're not confusing odyssey with an actually good 3d mario like 64, sunshine or 3d world?

I should have specified that I meant characters that are always in the spinoffs but not often in the main series. Getting to see them interact with one another would be nice

Odyssey was all about Mario visiting all different kinds of worlds with different styles. So, Mario was fully intended to be a fish out of water in New Donk, and they played that up as much as possible.
In Sonic on the other hand, they tried to play it off as if Sonic, Tails, Eggman, and the rest were just always in a realistic world the entire time, and we were supposed to simply accept that this was a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to be happening.

You mean like the Roving Racers or Talkatoo or Captain Toad or Glydon

>lazy copy-paste human
That's not different than turtle or gomba.

Attached: 1549341800802.jpg (440x340, 32K)

Sonic 06 had us watch a romance unfold between Sonic and a human princess.

autism

Yes, but with other established characters from prior games. Like Wario and Waluigi looking for coins and other treasures in a kingdom or something.

Sorry. I meant that he got rid of the original concept. I would have loved to see Sarasaland in Odyssey

Attached: 0C19E40B-85FB-40EF-8797-1472F78C9A9E.jpg (677x921, 349K)

is there a full download for the Odyssey artbook?

I guess I just don't entirely see what it would add for old faces instead of new ones. It feels sort of shoehorned to say "well we have to put in more of the ensemble, but what will they DO?" rather than come up with a concept and then use a character if it's fitting. As another user mentioned, it comes close to the Sonic the Hedgehog problem of the extended cast being a burden on the game instead of useful tools for enhancement.

I can't wait until Miyamoto dies so that the Mario series can move on and evolve. Fuck, it kills me every time knowing we could have had Camelot tier Mario looking humans instead of the uncanny valley PS2 era copypaste IRL human NPCs we got.

Sonic 06 just fucking sucked
Adventure 1, 2, Unleashed, and even Shadow had humans in it and it worked just fine... for the most part.

While I did not hate the new Donkers it would have been so much better if they were made to look like this

Is actually simple. Sonic talks and the more he talks the more autistic bullshit comes from his mouth. Mario just yells noises when he jumps and looks like a chubby italian dude.

they may have looked realistic but they acted like aliens. it was absurd but also really cute.

Mario treated it as is, a goofy gimmick
Sonic tried to take it to seriously

You can't wait until the series moves on and evolves to use old designs more?

It's because it reflects the game's theme of taking Mario to new and strange places. It really is an oddyssey

The first world is a subdued monochrome land. The second is a big prehistoric wilderness. You go to a dead kingdom and fight an actual dragon. Bowser has a japanese-style castle this time around. Everything is different and new and straight-up actual New York City fits with that

Now we are stuck wondering what is a homonintendus and why aren't there more of them?
If we had gotten THIS everything would have been solved

It really does, I don't get why he hates lore so much.
Call me autistic but Odyssey could've brought everything together:
>New Donk is shown to be where Mario is from and its residents resemble Mario/Peach rather than realistic people
>Maybe even have Cranky Kong appear in-person, if Kongs can be in Mario Kart I see no reason why they can't show up in an actual Mario game
>Kingdoms based on locations from previous games like Sarasaland and Isle Delfino, which would also be a good reason for characters like Daisy to appear in the main games
>Other locations from previous games appear as cameos, e.g. you can see Dinosaur World in the distance from the Cascade Kingdom, there are areas resembling the SMB3 worlds visible on the globe, Comet Observatory can occasionally be seen far in the distance from the Moon Kingdom, etc
Instead of anything cool we get weird realistic humans and halfway-realistic Pauline who may or may not remember Mario which basically makes everything as vague as possible

To me though, having there be cameos from other characters across the series just makes things feel more connected, you know? Like, Pauline still exists and we know most of the other characters do too, but we never get to see them. And hell, they could work it into the story. Maybe in a sequel Bowser just so happens to visit some locations like Sarasaland, or Donkey Kong Island, or Wario's kingdom, and each place has its own little side story. Could definitely make for a neat concept, a lot of fun interactions, and giving some characters more personality than they've been allowed before. The problem with Sonic is that whenever it's an ensemble cast, due to most everyone's background spanning stuff like different dimensions and even the future, you need to write the story around that. The only games that somewhat did it decently were Heroes and Generations because they're either just cameos and have a story reason to be there, or they have their own side story that gives them some kind of end goal. With Mario, it's not as big an issue since everyone exists in the same world but live in different parts of it, and since Odyssey emphasized travelling the world it wouldn't be out of left field to have other characters who decide to travel as well or just travelling to a location near them.

This is the kind of shit I would have loved to see as well. Like I understand that Mario isn't about canonicity but I appreciate Easter eggs and references like that.

Except this was the Odyssey team's idea. Miyamoto was uncomfortable with the concept but he let them do whatever they wanted because he's been distancing himself from game development.

Heroes absolutely suffers from having twelve characters, I don't know what you mean by doing it decently.

Decently as in it could have been much, much better, but each group had their own little storyline that acted as an excuse for them to be in the game.

>Not blaming Koizumi

Shiggy was hands off this time. Look for another scapegoat.

Right but those storylines were either super flimsy or a total mess, and then having to actually play all four storylines turned a mediocre game unbearable. Heroes is one of the WORST examples of a bloated cast dragging down the experience.

It was shit though, Beta New Donk City looks so much better.

Attached: new donk concept.jpg (2000x1249, 510K)

I can't really speak much for Heroes because I only played through Team Sonic's story on my old laptop and I'm too lazy to start over on my new one.
But in Mario's case that game's issue wouldn't be as big an issue, because you'd only be playing as him and maybe Luigi, with Donkey Kong, Wario, Waluigi, Daisy, etc. just being NPCs like Pauline was and only being world specific with their own self contained side stories like Odyssey did for its worlds. That's what I've been getting at, and I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough

its more stupid SA1 sold more than 06 yet every faggot remember 06 had hoomans

>people were going to look super mario styled
>it was actually going to look like a place Mario would live
What a missed opportunity.

It's funny how people bring up Heroes bloated 12 character cast all the time when in actuality, it's one of the Sonic games with the least problems with different playstyles since every team practically controls the same. It's not like Sonic 06 where they programmed literally 10 completely different characters.

Attached: Knuckles Hat.jpg (380x298, 16K)

the devs were actually trying to give a 3D Sonic some damn soul with unleashed, that why they went with that and did neat stuff like Night of the Werehog.

and then SEGA laid them off...

Seconded. PLEASE someone link a full download of the Odyssey Artbook

You're fairly clear but I'm trying to impress upon the fact that it's just unnecessary. To shoehorn characters in and then find a purpose of them is sort of the opposite of the overall game design, which is to take a game concept and then justify it with flavor. Characters like Glydon, Goombette or the Roving Racers are memorable because they were made to be part of the game first and foremost, while a Wario appearance would be cute but without bringing anything to the table like Luigi's Balloons (something where the gameplay absolutely came first and Luigi was just stapled on after) it'd be kind of forgettable and insubstantial. As someone who played most of the Sonic games, the cast showing up just to show up doesn't really enhance anything on its own.

Actually the studio that made that short still makes CG cutscenes for the games, even the spinoffs, and I think the ones who wanted to leave left on their own terms
It is odd, yes. But I do think they could have executed that better, like having there be less stages for some characters or having each one go through stages in a different order

Mario is a human too so why is this weird for you

Them having the exact same playstyles only made their existence even more superfluous. It's the biggest problem the game has, even more of a problem than nearly every level gimmick of any note being introduced in the first level. Sonic '06 was such shit in every area that the amount of characters could never have saved or condemned it, so obviously other things take precedence.

that looks like the same copout garbage Galaxy did
glad they didnt go with this

Early Sonic history is interesting thanks to all the ideas they dropped or put on the back burner for years. Vector was actually created before Tails but wasn't made official till Chaotix, for instance.

Also how Mighty was one of the concept designs for Sonic before they decided on a Hedgehog.

Miyamoto had no hand in Odyssey so it's already happening. Before long, you may get a Waluigi game or some other cool shit with the Mario brand.

I've played most Sonic games as well. But I just want to see Mario get to interact with characters other than just Peach/Luigi/Bowser/Toad in something that isn't a sports game, because I think it would help Mario's world feel more lived in and connected. To me you can still have spinoff characters cameo and not compromise the game design because Odyssey was all about going around the world. Seeing other characters over the course of the journey would add personality to it for me because you get more of a sense of the geography. But maybe I'm just spoiled because Pauline got to be in it and it seemed like grounds for having a bunch of interesting interactions occur but then nothing much came of it.

Mario can be put into any environment so long as the game is fun. So can Sonic. Difference is Sonic 06 was a shitty fucking game so it didnt work

>Bowser wearing different costumes depending on the kingdom he's visiting
This would've been kino, especially if there was a radically different boss fight with him, too.

Isn't that's what the Mario RPGs are for?

No, the Mario RPGs almost never use the Mario Party cast. It was honestly surprising to see Toadette gaining popularity in Mario and Luigi and Paper Mario.

I'm personally not one for RPGs (tried the demo for Mario and Luigi Dream Team at least and thought it was fine, but not my kind of game) so I wouldn't know. Do those have any of Mario's supporting cast play a role in them or pop up? From what I've seen it's just the main cast plus some original characters and Toads

Not anymore

Attached: 1479465527412.png (800x800, 271K)

he didn't really interact with them, and most of them were 2D sprites if you were 20 or more feet away. they're basically just noise in the game

Because Nintendo can literally do no wrong.

Attached: images.jpg (293x172, 13K)

Odyssey sucked. The clashing visual styles between realistic textures and real world objects with cartoony Mario objects was genuinely hideous to look at. And the game itself was nowhere near as good as SM64, SMS, and Galaxy. It was basically just 3D World 2, which is not what anyone wanted.

He is a realistic Italian though.

I mean it's basically like saying who framed Roger rabbit should have just been roger in toontown with toontown humans. Which completely loses the entire draw