How is it that a game with a $50,000 budget can be infinitely better than every game with a $50+ million budget?

Budget wasn't $50,000. That's just what they got from kickstarter. They had 3 full time employees working on the game for over 2 years, that would cost a company over a million dollars.

Because they gave a shit and didnt have to listen to suits.

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Simply because it's not actually as good as Yea Forums pretends it is. It's a very generic metroidvania full of recycled ideas. That's why two amateurs can make a lackluster game like this with a shoestring budget. But if you want to create something truly original that drives the artform forward, you're gonna need some money and talent.

>that would cost a company over a million dollars
Uh no it wouldn't. 3 people who are really passionate about a project could all live and work together in the same apartment on a budget of less than $50k/year, easily.

God, I wish you were telling the truth. Then the world would be filled with a lot more quality games.

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>original == good
>the execution is irrelevant to the quality
Literally what a hopeless brainlet would think.

It isn't hard to make a 2d game if you have a good artist for art and animations.
By only having like two devs (1 programmer and 1 artist) and 1 music dude you can keep dev costs extremely low.

>something truly original that drives the artform forward
Name 1 game from the last 20 years.

Hollow Knight on the left
AAA games on the right

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I don't care about playing the same game over and over again with a different coat of painting. I'll leave that to brainlets.

soul

Because it had more than a $50,000 budget

... It is extremely hard to make a game using only hand-drawn assets and then animating them. Are you insane?

This game is the very definition of mastery in art and animation.

I mean you're not wrong, and there are very few people left who can do good 2d animation because it's pretty much a dead artform, but 3d animation takes a lot more work to put together because there are so many more individual parts that need to be done.

And yet gameplay-wise it's a rehash of every single previous metroidvania. A waste of effort.

What game are you working on that will sell multiple millions of units?

None? You're just being a contrarian asshole.

Undertale was something that was surprisingly new and refreshing, and it has a place on the history of video-games, unlike generic garbage like hollow knight.

So I take it you never eat the same meal twice per lifetime? I'm mean if you've eaten pizza once, no point ever eating pizza again, even different varieties or made by different people.

Yep, you sure have made me and everyone else in this thread suddenly hate hollow knight. I'll never play or praise it again and I don't think anyone else will either. Good job you can leave now.

>it can only be good if it's the first time it's done
Ah yes, Yea Forums's all time favorite fallacy.

>1 pale ore away from max nail
What's going to happen when I upgrade? Iselda gets AIDS?

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*ahem*
Fuck Oro, and fuck Mato.

Eating has a pragmatic purpose(providing nutrition) and doesn't need to be a completely new experience each time to fulfill that purpose. However, if I'm going to spend time playing a video-game or contemplating a piece of art, I demand that it is new, exciting and breaches new territories.

nailsmith gets depression

As long as you leave Sheo alone.

>quick slash + unb strength
>win

Normally I would, but I was doing all bindings

>here’s your (You), retard.

There are only 9 vessel fragments right? I've one left to go

I demand that whatever it's going for it does it good.

I told you you've convinced us. Everyone in the world has uninstalled hollow knight, canceled pre-order of the sequel, and demanded refunds from the developer, because you pointed out to us that it is not in fact the first 2D action platformer game created. Why are you still responding, surely there are other communities that need to be told why their game is bad.

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Yes

>Hollow Knight

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People who actually care about their product and aren't just in it to make money usually end up making a lot of money because they care.

This is such an ignorant argument.
In any form of creative work a set of precedents are needed to set the relative ground from where the criticism draws its comparisons.
You opinion on anything is literally worthless if you limit the references you have about a creative element to stay equal to 1 and refuse to contemplate how other authors may have executed the same idea. You just can't form a critical footing with that mentality, no matter how much of a high horse you think you're sitting in.

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>think the 3 dreamers will be 3 intense boss battles
>no challenge whatsoever thus far
Tell me the watcher gives me SOMETHING

When will you stop shilling this piece of shit?

>theyhatedjesusbecausehetoldthetruth.jpg

Shut the fuck up retard. Pong was the first video game with things like graphics, controls, and sound effect. Therefore every other game with any of these elements is just a ripoff of pong (all of them) And you should never play anything but pong ever again.

If it's not new, it has no reason to exist. It's just robbing people of their time.

When you stop calling anything remotely popular "shilling".

none of the dreamers do shit themselves but there's one fucking cunt of a boss protecting the guy in the city of tears

Your posts aren't new, they have no reason to exist.

passion>legion of coders thrown at a project

Yes and that's probably what they did. However, if a company wanted to hire 3 employees of their calibre it would cost over a million dollars.

I'm not sure why you're so angry. Hiring 2 programmers and a professional artist for 2 years and an office for them to work in is going to cost over a million dollars in Melbourne.

>If it's not new, it has no reason to exist
Wouldn't that mentality justify you killing yourself though? I'm asking seriously.

>Not Earthbound
>Original
Just take your (you)s and go already nigga.

It's the difference between creating a work of love and labor and a work meant to generate profit to make shareholders happy.

The devs gave a shit and weren't doing it as an obligation or as a project handed down to them

Is it on sale again or something?

Originality is dead you cuck, ask any serious art form the last 200 years.

>Undertale was something that was surprisingly new and refreshing

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THe only thing that's similar is the MC's sprite, and even that can be dismissed as a reference. Everything else is brand new and original. Try harder.

Axiom Verge was made by one dude and it kicks ass tho

no regrets

Every single person is completely different from everyone else. You have a unique combination of DNA that only you in history has ever had, so you're new.

Yeah sure. Iji did the whole pacifist/massacre paths better.
There's nothing original about Undertale, just a mesh of random elements that were already used in better games way before its time.
It's also a shit game. Cry harder.

It's better than Hollow Knight, for sure, but it's still not a huge breakthrough.

Hollow Knight is a unique combination of assets and mechanics that only it has ever had, so it's new.

Because 99% of the $50M budget is advertising.

Yeah, but as an individual, what have you done that is 100% original and has not been done by another human before you?

*blocks your path*

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I once sucked over 1000 BBCs in a single day. And every one of them agreed that hollow knight was unoriginal and bad.

Your apathy towards the tropes used in the piece is irrelevant regarding the quality of the piece as a whole.

Seething contrarian Yea Forumstard. If you know what makes a game good so well, why don't you make the next 10 million dollar indie? Oh wiat, you don't have 1/10000 of the talent TOby Fox has, you jealous fool.

Bloat. Games like Anthem are just made to look as good as possible for previews and ads.

If you know what makes a game original so well, why don't you make the next 10 million dollar indie?
Oh wait...

Missing green arrow

>HUUUUUR I DON'T CARE IF WHAT YOU SAY IS TRUE, I STILL LIKE IT EATING SHIT

That's how stupid your argument sounds. Apply yourself a bit more.

This game was aimed at Undertale audience and somehow it's now acceptable to shill it here.

>calling others contrarians while he rages about HK
top ironic kek of the night

Do you think cuckoldry was invented recently?

>it's only good if it's original
Not at all, again you getting bored of the use of certain tropes doesn't automatically makes their usage shit.

Were they paying themselves while creating it? I assume not, in which case it's probably more like a $150k-$200k budget taking the going rates for their programming / art / testing / etc. labour into account and not just the out-of-pocket expenses.

Cordial reminder that Hollow Knight is the 30th best game of all time.

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It was actually aimed at the Yea Forums audience.

Yes, Yea Forums was Reddit for a long time now.

This.

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SOUL

>labor of love and effort
>Doesn't try to "appeal to a larger demographic"
>No micro-transactions or big publishers trying to add unnecessary shit to it.

It is basically one of the few indie games that is an example of what indie should be.

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Reddit doesn't exist.

Five Nights at Freddy’s

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>.....
But you haven't said anything that can be called "true".
All you said is that YOU don't want the same thing 2 times, however that doesn't refute that a work doesn't need to be original to be good.

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Yup, that's gonna get a 'based and redpilled' from me.

I can't tell what's ironic and what's not anymore.
Help.

>one motherfucker in charge of spanish translation
weve found the man responsible for defensor blanco

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DOMITÁ DOMITÁ DOMITÁ

By that logic, basically 99.99% of video games should just never be released. Sounds boring. There are plenty of amazing sequels to games that don't tread new ground, but most people are very happy with and love even more than the first. The world would be much more dull if people couldn't execute the same ideas in different and more detailed ways.

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Your logic here proves that Hollow Knight is a new game though. Hollow Knight being a child of Metroid, in this case.

This thread is shit, too much shitposting about the fact that people can and will have different opinions and not enough cute bugs.

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What do you expect, it's late night sunday.
The poor shitposters have nothing to do and they get bored.

Been stuck on the last part of Path of Pain for four hours. Pls help.

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Git gud.

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when you dash, dont wait for the animation to end and just hold down the jump button. this will start the jump animation as soon as the dash ends

>0:13
>dashing through the gap
>not climbing the 3 wingmoulds
pathetic

time for steel soul 100% bois

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Already on it senpai.
Please don't die at the double Baldurs like I did.

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Focus and control

>Isma...I miss... I miss you

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How the fuck did you come up with 50k? One professional artist alone is like 100k/year, I imagine you need some programmers and studio as well to make a game like this.

Why does everyone in Hallownest have to suffer so much?

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bump

AU$57k was the amount funded through kickstarter, but they did have an actual budget besides that

God, path of pain was so fun. I wish there were more platforming challenges, Godhome felt so cheap and anti-fun

How the fuck did I just die to Pure Vessel of all things

Can confirm

Went out and saw an assassin bug skewer some grubs. Some hornets flying all over the fucking place. And some Redback Spiders in my shed (and a million other non-venomous ones).

You probably got hit until you ran out of life. That's usually how people die in this game as far as I know.

>It's better than Hollow Knight, for sure
lol, no

Explain to me htf are you supposed to organically find this place? I want to hear how many of you found the sleeping poop bug without looking it up on the internet. There's no audio cue, there's no visual cue. Be honest with me here, did you look it up?

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That's crazy, when did that mechanic get added to the game?

Axiom Verge is funnily enough more 'hollow' than Hollow Knight which is its flaw.

>there's no visual cue
The floor is a bit cracked if I remember well, but it's almost impossible to not miss it, so yeah I had to look it up.

Yeah, nearly all the DLC content was a bitch to find and each of them was pretty much hidden behind easily missable breakable walls.

I looked it up. There is zero indication that you're supposed to ground slam there.

That's where dung defender sleeps right? Yeah I only found that after being told about it.

Also what the fuck did turning the water back on right above that do?

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Drained Isma's grove

That’s how much their kickstarter raised

so what do HollowFriends think about the resurgance of Metroidlikes?
Also do they get along with the likes of Rainworld Friends, Hyper Light bros, and especially Metroidfriends?

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>They had 3 full time employees working on the game for over 2 years, that would cost a company over a million dollars.
What the actual fuck am I reading

it's not, because the game keeps crashing when i enter the Hollow Knight's room and no one in the entire world knows how to fix this. i've uninstalled, i've checked the files with steam, nothing works.

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He had a hard life

Small game with a simple engine. Less chance for things to fuck up.

That's the kek I needed after a long day

Lmao, 1st try. After doing NKG the dream bosses are kinda pushovers.

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Pretty sure all those games are owned by the same people with good taste.

Now fight him 4 more times to max him out and earn your statue.

There are three destructible walls in the game that have no proper indicator. There is the breakable floor for the second fight with heroic poop bug (the ground doesn't even shake), there is the path of pain (why would you even want to go there) and there is the entrance to the hive. Technically the entrance to the hive has cracks but they are tiny and the wall is dark (no light sources nearby) so the cracks are invisible unless you cling to the wall and take a screenshot and zoom. I love Hollow Knights but these three secrets definitely need better visual indicators.

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wait...
there are more fights

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So is that as far as you can go without crystal heart?

The hive have some not-so obvious tells for it tho, like how there's 2 other "entrances" that are just an open hole, both of which are surrounded by bees.
And the breakable wall one has a couple of bees hovering outside of it.

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Rainworld is in my top 10 games along with Hollow Knight.
I'm honestly amazed by how organically the dev managed to simulate a thrilling ecosystem so well.

Scavengers are by far what impress me the most.
I have no idea how did he achieve to give them an AI that properly reacts to its environment with enough complexity that it manages to make you believe there's an actual cognition going on there.

Sadly yeah. I was disappointed because for a moment I thought you could actually get some freedom in the sequence of the skills.
The unlocking of the abilities is more linear than it needs to be in my opinion.

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>But if you want to create something truly original that drives the artform forward

which is something that "AAA" games almost never do

they're almost always a rehash of something older

in this day and age, very very few games are completely "original"

now fuck off with your autism

You could probably bounce off your shade. Obviously, that doesn't work in Steel Soul mode.

There's also the fact that from the Kingdom's Edge side you can actually see the hive walls on the background and hear a buzzing.
When I found that I instantly knew what was in that empty space of the map and wasted one hour trying to find an entrance until it occurred to me to use the tramp line.

90% of Yea Forums are clones

>3 full time employees working on the game for over 2 years, that would cost a company over a million dollars.
wew

Don't worry, I'm not going to argue that the Hive is impossible to find. I found it naturally (but not the poop knight or the path of pain). I completely approve that the game has many hints of the Hive's existence. In that post I was specifically talking about breakable walls and how they should have visual indicators. If game developers want breakable walls they should all be marked or none of them should be.

Just beat the Path of Pain. That last jump fucked me up so much. Disappointed there's no achievement though. :(

it literally has SOUL

soul

Do you think salaries are the only thing companies pay when they hire employees? They pay unemployment insurance, facilities to support offices which can be varied from city to city, all the bullshit taxes most cities enforce for everything from revenue to whatever the fuck Seattle was trying to do where company's paid taxes per head in their offices. Not to mention if they offer any sort of benefits.
You must be very, very stupid to not believe three full-time devs wouldn't cost over a million over the course of at least 2 years.
That number is also why Europe and the US suck. They make it so expensive to start a business that only existing corporations that suck liberal and neocon dick can afford to expand.

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>come that way from the tram
>see some bees
>B-blast them since I can’t reach
>accidentally discover new zone
>friend watching tells me that’s bullshit

I don't think you have any idea how small businesses operate. The things you're describing apply only to huge corporations. If I wanted to hire someone to work on my game, first of all, I wouldn't hire them as an employee but a contract laborer, I don't have to pay them benefits and "facilities to support offices" just shows how retarded you are, you don't need a building to make video games, these guys worked from their home

They're making a fucking indie videogame not trying to start an empire.

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>not trying to start an empire.
They should be.

But it's Castle Crashers level of quality aka not very good, just polished.

You're just looking at the graphics
Castle Crashers is a shitty beat em up
Hollow Knight is a massive world with tons of secrets, well designed bosses, lore, and ambient soundtrack

I'm not just looking at the graphics. The mechanics, platforming and enemy / boss designs are of that quality too.

They're almost nothing alike

>not very good, just polished.

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They feel the same to me in terms of how impressed I was when playing them.

Donkey Kong and Super Mario Bros probably feel very similar if you only play the first level

Because the budget wasn't just 50k.

Nah, the game just feels pretty simple to me. I'm someone who absolutely loved SOTN and did every little thing you could do in that game, more than once. I'm still waiting for a game that really feels like a proper follow up to it. Nothing does yet. Hollow Knight is a nice game, but it's just a decent game to me, nothing more than that.

just because more work is put it, it doesn't mean it's a better product

I don't know why they couldnt have made them into boss fights. I understand making a boss is a considerable amount of work, but they couldve combined like 2 random dream warriors together to make a new boss 3 times.

SotN sucks, though.

Idk it was fun but it is pretty much the same as all the other metroid clones.

Nothing will ever be SotN, for better or worse. It sounds like you need to open your mind some if you're looking for an exact replacement for any game

Good game design doesn't cost anything

because money isn't what makes a game good

You don't need to try this hard to fit in

It's much better than Hollow Knight.

I don't want an exact replacement, that's the thing. I want something that takes it to the next level, in a very holistic sense.

>in a very holistic sense.
Including the bad voice acting, gibberish story, braindead combat and half the map being literally the first half turned upside down?

As long as you compare every game you play to another, nothing will ever touch it. Things it does wrong will be vindication that it's not as good, and things it does right will be rationalized as deviating too much from the source

Hollow Knight is not trying to be SotN. It's in most ways better. OST obviously goes to SotN

Dead cells is the superior game with actual combat depth and decent weapon variety but Yea Forums wants to fuck the insects and pretend its shallow platoforming is something really great

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>Including the bad voice acting, gibberish story, braindead combat and half the map being literally the first half turned upside down?
I don't get what your point is here. I just said I don't want a replacement, I want something better in all ways. So obviously I wouldn't want the new thing to have its flaws.

I don't agree with the "gibberish story" though. SOTN is a far more interesting universe than Hollow Knight. Alucard also feels way more badass to control, even if there's not much in his way to really make use of that fantastic control system. He has more abilities and is more flexible, and he's of course more animated and visually detailed.

>As long as you compare every game you play to another, nothing will ever touch it.
Not true at all. I've played games that feel like real improvements over old games before. Hollow Knight is not that game though. Maybe you just had to be there if you didn't play SOTN on release.

Well it's not for starters

>Maybe you just had to be there if you didn't play SOTN on release.
I played it a year after launch when I was 22. At the time it was up there with Super Metroid for me, but it's nothing more than nostalgia that keeps it as a favorite, since I realize all the flaws and all the ways its been exceeded. HK isn't without its own flaws but it did well to fix most of SotN's shortcomings without dipping anywhere else.

You sound like you hold the graphics and ultimately the fact that it's a bug world against it, which is fine, there's certain settings that don't jive well with me either

I forgot I was talking to the same guy who was claiming HK and Castle Crashers are basically the same game, and I'm not going to lavish you with any more yous. You seem to have brain cancer, and it might be spreading

There's a grandiosity about SOTN not being followed up on in Hollow Knight. The graphics and setting are just aspects of that. Demon's Souls feels more like a proper follow up to SOTN than Hollow Knight does to me, if that helps get my message across here.

That's exactly how I found the place myself.

Two of the three have boss fights right before them. Killing them is the prize for defeating the Watcher Knights and Uumuu.
The third is guarded by the entirety of Deepnest, which they apparently considered enough to not warrant a separate boss.

Dead Cells definitely has superior combat to Hollow Knight, it has graphics that are just as good (actually slightly better graphics) but it has weaker everything else. In Dead Cells 99% of the gameplay consists of running in corridors and slashing enemies. That means 99% of the game is 10/10, because the combat is so fucking amazing and it's all you do, but if you want more than combat then you're hitting a wall. Games that are called Metroidvanias typically have more to offer, they have towns and NPCs and items and an actual story, there is a sense of exploration. I find that the majority of people who actually played Dead Cells will hesitate to call it a Metroidvania. Good game, but the comparison with Hollow Knight is a bit out of place. Dead Cells deserve more recognition but the price tag is a problem. It will probably explode in popularity when the price is cut in half.

Too bad Uumuu was such a pushover the dreamer didn't feel like much of a reward at all. As much as I like Quirrel the fight would have been far better if they used Uumuu's godmaster mechanics instead.

> HK and Castle Crashers are basically the same game
Not what I was saying but okay.

Dreamtime is an abbo thingie, not sure if regular aussies can enter it.

Because they tried to make a decent game.
Big budget games aren't meant to be decent. They're targetted to the shit-eating retard demographic.
The type of person who can look at 20tickrate, 30fps, matchmaking, 150ms input delay, easymode, Cinematic, Press X to Awesome, Press O to skip gameplay, twitch integration, microtransaction, lootbox, amiibo linked, lore-conflicting tokenism and say "This is fine".
People with low standards, who'll buy anything marketed towards them. The type of person who can see an ad for a washing machine that "really speaks to who I am" and "lets me get through the day" and "helps me express myself" and buy it without even checking if it can fucking wash your goddamn clothes properly.
For such a person, you don't need to make a good game. You barely even need to make a game at all. You just need to deceive a gullible dimwit into -thinking- that it's a videogame, and it'll do.

To be fair, nobody knows what the consumer really wants, least of all the consumer.

I think you're being too harsh on the suits.
Broken Age was made without suits and it was shite.
But with Bobby Kotick preventing the team from going full retard, Psychonauts was pretty good.
A lot of developers are incompetent. For every Arkane there's two Ubisofts. I know the suits will gut the game to use it as whale bait and that's terrible, but suits can't stop developers from being incompetent.

>the artform

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New doesn't mean good.
Unique doesn't mean competent.
Taking what works and trimming the bullshit is going to waste your time less than being """creative""".
I fucking hate this """creative""" mentality where they can't just do something properly. They have to intentionally do a somersault blindfolded and then when they fall on their faces they claim success is subjective. No, it's not.

>Every single person is completely different from everyone else.
D E L U D E D

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If people count as being different because their apperance is slightly off and because they have slightly different abilities, then EVERY game is totally unique.
Even if all you did was open up an existing game in a rom editor, raise the jump height, and recolor a bush.
Every human being is a unique combination of different common stereotypes. They don't add anything new. They combine what already exists, and 99.99% of people combine it in very similar ways.
Your DNA may be unique but the behavioural traits it codes for is not. Hollow Knight's assembly is unique but the gameplay mechanics it codes for is not.
Please do not make stupid arguments like "people are unique, games are not" when Hollow Knight and Super Metroid are more different than you and your mother.

These tags are shit.
>metroidvania
>fantasy
Where is
>platform hell
>hegale
>dark
>idino
>roguelike
>atmospheric
>shaw

For Twin Baldur, stand next to one so it goes into NEETmode. That lets you fight only one at a time.

Mark of Pride + Longnail gets you longer pogos.

-skill based gameplay
-great boss fights
-SMB tier platforming
-huge world to explore in various possible orders
-lots of shortcuts that loop back to previous areas for AHA moments

Don't do the blacksmith's request after that, trust me.

No, the sequel is announced.

this accusation can be leveled at any genre work, ever. if originality is your only criteria for quality, then you wind up with unpalatable shit almost instantly.

sorry, but every film adaptation of a book or comic proves you hilariously wrong. craft and polish trumps originality every last time.

Hollow Knight had beauty. the real kind that touched your soul and made you cry for all the misery and loss in that game. that Hornet game can never live up to HK

>word search "soul"
>in 206 comments, only appears 9 times

Well, 10 since I started typing. And 11 including this.

>To be fair, nobody knows what the consumer really wants, least of all the consumer.
consumers spending money is usually a pretty strong indication
that's why microtransactions exist
how exactly is a CEO supposed to know consumers hate microtransactions if they're making a shitload of cash? browsing Yea Forums?

>How is it that a game with a $50,000 budget can be infinitely better than every game with a $50+ million budget?
same as most 50 mil budget movies are better than most 200 mil capeshit

Man, I gotta ask, how do you guys get these shots? Do you just sit around as Slugcat and wait for something to happen or is there an editor of some sorts?

No joke I just got lucky because I was a retard who thought that the valve above it was an arrow pointing down.

by devoting $30,000 of that to endless shills

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Okay, I seem to be doing better at the game. I got to and beat Soul Master, which is further than I've ever been, and I explored into the caves and the resting ground, revealing where the three guys I have to beat are. Is that what's next?

I tried to go up against the Mantis Lords, but couldn't even touch one.

Just like real life.

You won't be able to get to most of them right now. Exploring the rest of the mines is probably a good idea. Beating the Mantis Lords would be a good way to continue as well.

Gotcha. I'll go for mines. I don't think I'm ready for Mantis yet. I hit 'em once. Once.

Fucking finally. Took almost 6 hours but I did it.

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Just beat this shit. What the fuck was Team Cherry thinking? I wasn't even satisfied when I beat it. It just killed all the joy in my heart.

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>he doesn't like sawblades

Alright now do the path of pain user, because thats you haven't even done the hardest part yet!

though real talk, I found the white palace a pushover compared to the delicate flower quest, because fuck several minutes of nothing only for 3-precise platform jumps that make you start over if you fuck up at the end

now THAT is "what the fuck was team cherry thinking"

and the answer is sadism

The Chad Pathfinder of Pain
The Virgin White Palace Whiner

You guys all finished the pantheon of hallownest, right?

It's on my to-do list.

And I just got my shit pushed in by the Crystal Guardian. Maybe tomorrow.

I gave up after reaching there once because i wasn't in the mood to do that platforming section anytime i failed the fight, and who knows i may have suceeded the second time but I just wasn't in the mood

Mistakes were made.

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Yes. Gonna try and do the bindings one by one.

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He's pretty tough, but you can skip him. There's another bench in the mines, though it's much farther down.

based

the difference is how much people care about the project, if it's a passion work they'll give it all of themselves and more if it's just another work they won't even bother.

This is what I believe can/has happen with film. I have an idea for the most kino film ever made, and I truly believe it can be made for under 250k.

I think I can get him. Thanks for the advice, though.

But we are comparing them to a game with a $50,000,000 budget. If EA wanted to hire the 3 developers to make Hollow Knight then yeah, that is a huge corporation hiring them.

You could probably graph out the diminishing returns ratio of bloated budgets and find the optimal margin of budget

Did you have the honeycomb charm from the hive? Having that makes white palace a bit easier

I guess it's almost impossible for you to play games then. what are you doing here?

BAFANADA