ITT: Games that trigger self insert fags

You can praise this story as much as you like (although for me it's shallow and very manipulative, not well done at all) but regardless of that it's some of the most soulless generic shooting I've ever played. Plus it's about 4 hours long. I'd have gone mad if I bought it for more than £3.

It is. Great story and all, even though it's basically a retelling of Apocalypse Now, which is itself a retelling of a book. But the gameplay was so bland I could hardly force myself through a second playthrough to look for more details and clues about the story. Some faggots defend the bad gameplay, saying "hurr durr but that's the whole point! It's supposed to be a bland military shooter because it's a critique of bland military shooters!" Absolute retards

I figure being the action protagonist in a game is as far removed an experience as being a anthropomorphic platforming bear
>Ye aint a super solider you're a neet in a chair

that being said the game can only draw you in so much with generic cover based shooting without just being one
assuming roasting some civvies means as much to as it doesn't then that's all this game is
a 6 maybe 7 outta ten generic cover based shooter

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my weighter has been weightening me 5kg more, was at friend's house and went on his weighter and saw i am far thinner than i thought i was and i dunno how to feel about that.

>Its a great fucking game
It's not. It's an average third person cover shooter with somewhat clunky controls, typically braindead AI and drab, monotonous environments.
>b-b-b-but the story is good!!!!11
So?

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>baww why isnt she an empty husk for me to roleplay as bawwww

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Why the fuck are there so many Spic Ops threads?
What kind of organized effort is this?

I haven't seen one in a while. But are you new? The game has been discussed fairly regularly ever since its release. Anons are still in awe of that phosphorus moment, even though it was a little hamfisted.

I hate fags
if you do too shit in this thread

>game is a satire of modern shooters
>HURR DURR WHY DOES IT PLAY LIKE A MODERN SHOOOTER??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!? BAWWWWW
I'm sick of these Youtube-watching fucktards coming on here and shitting on the rare good game because some fucking e-celeb told them it didn't tickle his pee-pee enough.

i thought this image was from mass effect the first time i saw it
he looks like the default MC

>lol u know what will make a good satire of shitty shooters?
>A SHITTY SHOOTER BRO

Fuck off, literal retard

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Do you literally not know how satire works?

>I haven't seen one in a while.
They've been all over Yea Forums for the past 2 days.
>But are you new?
I've been here since 2005.

I hated the faux-deep mastubatory meta stuff (player how could you dare do that to these copy pasted civilian models?????? why didn't you just turn off the game????) but as a modern spin on Heart of Darkness, it was pretty good

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Witcher 3
babies literally can't play it and throw a huge fit

don't you have youtube comments to spam with your JC Denton avatar?

There's a lot of details hidden in the game like that. When you're rappelling for the first time off the skyscraper with your squad, you can see Lugo's hanged corpse in the reflection. Walker's reflection when you willy-pete the civvies. Being yelled at "JUST FUCKING STOP" if you die during the "Lugo" heavy trooper. Another one that honestly made my blood run cold was hearing a lullaby sung "Twinkle twinkle, little star" on a loading screen with a monochrome image of a mother holding the burned child. The image was incomplete, but that only added to the experience, like watching Walker's nightmare. That one really got under my skin, nothing else did as much in that game.

any game with a female protagonist

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>2005
newfag

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>take story from movie
>take gameplay from shitty shooters of the time
>wow dude, such a deep satire of modern shooters
>bro, what clever commentary on the contemporary military shooter video game
>my mind is blown and I am euphoric for this incredible critique
>the game was only pretending to have bad gameplay bro!

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Those just attract the different kind of self-inserter.

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>I have no idea what I'm talking about

Why would a Dubai woman sing "Twinkle"?

I know you don't, you fucking retard.

if only they hadn't of voided that document by deciding to pretend to be women

Why would an American soldier shoot another American soldier?

I liked this game back when I was more impressionable, now I don't even want to associate myself with it, especially after seeing what kind of idiots are usually impressed by it.

Because he's fucking white and American?

IS IT TIME TO REPOST MY PERSONAL COLLECTION?

>walkers eyes are cracked from the start of the game

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THEY OPENED FIRE FIRST

>developers too lazy to change a texture
Wow, this is some Dark Souls tier deep lore!

>Konrads face is on the truck opposite the machine gun bus

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this game is onions personified
>doesn't let you progress unless you do bad thing
>WHY'D YOU DO THING JUST TURN THE GAME OFF BRO
pseud garbage

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>you can see a dead body with Walkers face on it

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Not that guy, but the game being a satire does not excuse terrible gameplay. Making a satire of the braindead shooter in terms of the dialogue, characters, plot, enemies, etc. can be done without the gameplay being shit.

>there are three instances where eyes of images are blacked out

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where was "turn the game off" even mentioned in the game?

>1/3, executed 33rd men

>2/3, pit of corpses

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is this the most overrated game on Yea Forums?

>3/3, the torture and execution of Gould

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>the way that everyone's dialogue in combat gets more and more aggressive as the game goes on

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No. Brainlets like you hate it so much Yea Forums cannot even have a proper discussion about it. So no, its not rated well on Yea Forums because of you retards.

You guys might like this.

imgur.com/a/GsGYFKb

Collates a lot of small details in the game, not all of them but.

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On the wall where you see the names of the 33rd casualties, you can find Adams and Lugo.

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>children drawing their live in a post storm Dubai

Fun fact. There are three stages to the dialogue and executions

>Start of Game
Professional callouts, clean executions
>Post White Phosphorous
Callouts are more strained, executions more sloppy
>Post Helicopter crash to end of game
Personal, angry callouts. Cruel and brutal executions.

oi mate, I was getting to it

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Never. The "turn off" shit is a result of misquoting one of the devs. You were never supposed to not do what the game told you. You were supposed to do it and suffer for it. Because thats what real war is. You follow orders. Even orders that you know are wrong. But brownshooters never makes you do bad stuff and makes you a hero.

>Konrads face can be seen on the side of a building at the start of "The Edge".
>When you get down level to it later on, it's a circus ad

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>If you silently kill the soldiers before this scene, you can listen to this Commander listening to the report about the civilians they took from The Nest. In this screenshot, he is quoting the Bible:

>Luke:34: "Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”"

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>satire of a video game
>video game
>GAME
>dialogue, characters, plot, enemies
Please tell me you're memeing. I refuse to believe zoomers like you are allowed on Yea Forums.

So which big e-celeb did a video on this now to cause the resurgence of threads?

>video game
>GAME
>terrible GAMEplay is good

Please tell me you're memeing. I refuse to believe zoomers like you are allowed on Yea Forums.

Ah, I see time is convoluted in Dubai as well.

But why don't you post some gameplay now? You know, since it's a video game? Supposedly, anyway.

>Konrad's face again, before Gould is attacked by the 33rd helicopters

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Thread theme

youtu.be/eb7Uu6Bz_wM

>Ah, I see time is convoluted in Dubai as well
based brainlet poster

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You wouldn't be here if you were a better person.

>dialogue and sound don't matter in films, because it's a visual medium

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Jesus Christ, you're genuinely retarded. That user is saying that gameplay isn't to be sacrificed in a video game and here you are strawmanning about the dialogue and plot.

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I think it was an argument made early on by people defending how the game would make you perform certain actions (obvious example being the white phosphorous) to be able to continue playing, with absolutely no other option to continue without doing so, and then started chewing out the player (not walker, the player) for doing so

you're a top tier faggot

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GAMEPLAY is the point of video GAMES. The element that is satirised in Spec Ops is the GAMEPLAY. Because it's a satire of a genre of video GAMES.

Holy fuck, why is it even necessary for this to be explained? Have we been invaded by Youtube commenters?

hit post too early.
>There is no man righteous not a one

Likely a biblical reference
>Romans 3:10-12: “None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”

>it was only pretending to be shit

i know -_-

>Because thats what real war is. You follow orders.
Yeah, except those few bits throughout the game where you inexplicably do have a choice. But no, not the other places. Even though it would sometimes have been more logical not to do some of those things. You do get choices elsewhere though. Because.

>b-but it's a s-satire
>it w-was s-supposed to be s-shit!
>b-bad gameplay is g-good if it's on p-purpose

My fucking god

>an experimental non-commercial prototype is the same as actual films made for artistic purposes
okay user

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what, you're expecting us to only post youtube videos and webms? go fuck yourself you wank stain

>under the sand, the pavement

>This graffiti appears to be a reference to the Paris riots of 1968. One of the rallying cries used in the protests was “sous le pave: la plage” (under the pavement: the beach). The government had restricted access to areas that should have been public property, such as beaches.

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What's so bad about its gameplay? The game is perfectly playable and can be beaten even on harder difficulties.

the dev has gone on record to say the main message of the game is that you shouldn't play it, his game isn't fucking satire you brainlet it's weedlord hippie tier "woah violence is baaad maaan" commentary

Our favourite scene
>tree is alive, but then...

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Deep. Wow. Much lore. Wouldn't be here if you was a good person.

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Why does the whole "you're bad for participating" thing make people mad?

Fragile egos.

That is the fault of the player for transferring their own ego onto that of the protagonist. If players found Walker's actions being chewed out to be patronising, then they ought to also find the praise other military shooters heap upon the player characters to be patronising. In both CoD and Spec Ops, the player character is given little to no choice; they are, regardless of player intervention, going to be hailed a hero, or a villain respectively.

>...then is dead if you turn around

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Thanks for the posting this compilation. I unironically love the game, the shooting was fun for me.

Yes and it began by one of the devs talking about games in general that you never question what the game tells you to do and if you really dont want to do something you can always just not play the game.

This was adopted as an argument by the people defending the game. The argument is obviously flawed and does more harm to the game. You are never supposed to stop playing. You are never supposed to feel bad for CHOOSING to use white phosphorus. You are supposed to feel like shit for being responsible for something horrible happening even if you were forced to do it. Even if it was a direct order. Even if your life depended on it. The result is horrible and you should feel like shit. Thats what the loading screen text is about.

In life there are situation where you have a choice and situations where you dont. This particular one was the example of one you have no choice. You cant stand against 300 soldiers with superior equipment. You are forced to use the weapon.

>Redditor starts Dogeposting

Probably because it's retarded.

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isn't that just UE3 LOD fucking up?

>you can see walkers reflection in the white phosphorous cannon screen

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Enemies are bullet sponges. The heavy dont die if you throw a grenade under their feet. The gameplay is shit. It wasnt on purpose, it was just shit because the devs are not experienced and honestly it wasnt the focus of this game. But yes, on excuses, it had shit gameplay and would be a better game if the gameplay was better.

It's an intentional trigger.

>walker begins hallucinating his mistakes on the screens

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did he die in the helicopter crash before the game?

>Enemies are bullet sponges
They aren't. A headshot is lethal on any difficulty.
>The heavy dont die if you throw a grenade under their feet
They're meant not to die from that, they are "heavies" for a reason. The rest is just your ramblings. Sure the gameplay could be better and more polished, especially the cover system, but calling it "shit" is exaggerating. It's mediocre at worst.

it isn't just walker though, the game goes out of its way to patronize the player (ie loading screen messages)

I don't mind Walker getting patronised, it makes complete sense, he's going through a breakdown after doing horrific shit. The meta shit of "you the player are only at this point in the game because you made walker do bad stuff like you do in those other games why are you such a bad person" is fucking trite as hell

>In life
This is a video game. All choices are predetermined due to the sheer realities of a programmed environment. You either allow player agency or you don't. And if you're going to write your game's moralistic message around said player agency, you'd damn well better make sure it's a factor in the final product. Because if you get your ass deadlined all to hell and end up releasing a game with almost no player agency, but your writing still acts as if that's still a thing, then it's all going to simply fall flat.

This is what happened, by the way. Before Ubisoft cut down the game's development and some genius came up with the dumbfuck 'hurr modern shooters ebil' marketing schtick, Spec Ops was supposed to have player choice. The "evil" path that you see today is what would have happened had the player chosen to shoot their way through the game.

How is it retarded? You willingly keep going down Walker's path.

Yeah

Why would you find being accused of something you didn't do offensive? If you're not guilty, you have nothing to get angry about. The game is wrong, so what?

See

>You willingly keep going down Walker's path.
here we go guys
get ready for it
its time for
you couldve just turned the game off?????

that's one of the more popular theories

>on the list of the dead, you can find Adams and Lugo

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Kek OP here.
I don't even care about the game, seeing how easy it is to trigger self insertfags is hilarious, you faggots get real life mad about this game its so obvious

It's the most generic, boring, clunky cover based shooter I've ever played, and that's not an exaggeration. The one gimmick it had going for it was the sand but there were only a few points in the game where it's useful and those events were set up so obviously it felt like the game was treating you like a complete moron. I'm fine with it not having great shooting but it's so bland that I can't force myself through the gameplay segments inbetween the story setpieces. A game's primary goal needs to be good gameplay, satire or not. Saying that bland gameplay is excusable because it's a satire is truly retarded, user. A good satire knows which elements of its target to satirize, there are still crucial parts to a medium that you simply have to respect if you want it to be a good product. You can't just disregard the most important aspect of a video game and say it's fine because it's on purpose. That's some of the dumbest shit I've ever heard. That's like saying an unentertaining satirical movie is good because it's a satire and it wasn't supposed to be entertaining.

Not listed in that imgur compilation, but during the mexican standoff with Konrad, if you point the gun at the mirror, the reflection shows something different entirely.

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if you think the game has anything to do about player agency, then you're wrong. The game is about Walkers failures, not the players.

>umm why are u so guilty? yeah okay the game is stupid in this regard why are you pointing it out?
god you're a faggot

>you couldve just turned the game off?????
You could have. Or better yet, you could have just not chosen to buy generic middle eastern shooter #48503

i wonder if undertale wouldve existed in the timeline so:tl was complete

Pointing it out and being very triggered about it are different things.

shit nigga, totally forgot to add that

>you can see a hanging man in the reflection. there is nothing corresponding to create it.

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It's fucking infantile. Games aren't reality, and
>playing violent game bad
is a braindead stance to take, especially when you spent tons of time making a violent game to try to make that point. The end result is just going to be people playing a different violent game because yours is a piece of shit if you intentionally make it bad, even if it's only out of spite for how stupid you are.

It also has zero to say about actual war, since everyone knows war is awful, but real life is much more nuanced and complex than any game will be anytime soon.

Sorry, real life developments around the studio and the game invalidate that theory. What you speak of is a holdover from the time the game was supposed to criticise the player's actions, hence the loading screen tips, the disapproving appearances of Konrad that Walker himself doesn't see or pay attention to, and so on.

Because it's just that, Walker's path. I didn't make any of the decisions that Walker did, because the game forces you into those decisions.

The Apocalypse Now/Heart of Darkness aspect of the game is pretty decent, the "u r bad becuz u played the vidya" is dumb.

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>They're meant not to die from that, they are "heavies" for a reason.
Thats where you fucked up. Nobody walks on a grenade like its nothing. You just cant argue this. Sorry, mate.

>All choices are predetermined due to the sheer realities of a programmed environment.
Yes and they programmed some situations where you have a choice and some situations that are FUBAR and there is only one way to get out of it alive. Exactly like a real life.

If you are incapable of regretting the results of your actions because you didnt have a choice, then there might be something wrong with you.

Yes unironically how is that hard to comprehend?

If you weren't wrong and triggered you'd stop replying. Checkmate retard.

You're right, your posts aren't worth replying to, but they are still amusing.

better yet I'm never playing this piece of shit game lmfaoooo get owned loser

It's just an interesting take on it from 1 developer made to make you stop and think a little. Why are you so worked up over it? There's plenty of other shooters out there that don't ask any questions.

I never saw those messages as patronizing. They came off to me as more interrogative. As if the game was asking the player what they were actually getting out of yet another game where you play as an American soldier shooting people in a Middle Eastern environment.

>If you are incapable of regretting the results of your actions because you didnt have a choice
I'm not capable of regretting my actions as a player when the game has no player agency. It'd be like watching FMJ and regretting that you made Hartmann die because you watched the film. Stupid.

>It also has zero to say about actual war, since everyone knows war is awful
I hope you're joking. I agree that the "violent video games bad" thing is retarded, but not everyone knows how shit war is. There's still a huge chunk of Americans who jerk off to their military and their horrific foreign policy and still think that they're the unironic heroes of the world or something. Not everyone recognises how shit war is.

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>When caught in the sandstorm under the highway, you can see Konrad's tower. It has a similar appearance to Walker's hallucination after the helicopter crash. It's likely Walker's perception of the building during the sandstorm is bleeding into his hallucination

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>Over the course of the talk, which Williams gave yesterday afternoon as a part of the GDC "Narrative Summit," his primary focus was the idea that any game is defined by action, and so the actions you undertake in the game will define the game's meaning. As an example, he said, if you're playing a platformer, the game will be defined by jumping. When you're playing a shooter like Spec Ops, the game will be defined by the act of killing a person with a gun. "When you're using an action as a tool, it's easy to disassociate from what that action is," Williams said. "When you play a shooter, that action is killing a person. When you sit down to play a shooter, you're essentially signing up to kill hundreds if not thousands of people over the course of the game."
>Williams talked about how players still manage to disassociate from that fact, despite video games' extreme body-counts. By padding games with nothing but killing, "[Developers have] allowed killing to become not simply mundane, but run-of-the-mill," Williams said. "Not only that: filler. The more enemies you kill, the more it feels like it's padded out. For an industry that in the past couple years has been striving to create more emotional connectedness between the game and the user, it's interesting how we've allowed killing to stay so mundane."
>but it's about walker not the player!!!!!

It's not hard to comprehend, it's just incredibly masturbatory and anyone who points to it as a clever message is a brainlet

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>it's a Yea Forums insists all games must be the same bland unchallenging garbage episode

oh shit

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If you had the option to go down the ladder and get killed immediately, would you feel bad about using WP?

It did make me stop and wonder how this dev hasn't been run out of the industry for being retarded, yeah. Good job if he wanted people to think he was stupid, I guess.

Or a mapping error.

here's some fun ones people might have missed

>If you shoot Briggs this shows up

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What's challenging about watching a PSTD dumbass doing shit and the game pretending it''s something deeper because you go through the motions instead of watching the predetermined story?

what on earth is a "mapping" error in this context?

They have the same fucking animation you cunt. Don't pretend you know what you're talking about.

Assuming you just instantly died without any option otherwise, it'd effectively be the same as not being able to go down the ladder

It challenged you mentally as you seem to be losing your fucking mind posting in a thread about it, instead of ignoring it.

This is a very interesting preposition. I wonder that too

If I had the option to go down and laboriously shoot my way through the INFINITELY RESPAWNING SNIPERS the conventional way, and yet chose to sit back and use the easier, but ultimately catastrophic option of WP, then yes, I might have felt bad about my choice. Because it would speak to my actions as a player and my attitude toward the inhabitants of the virtual world I'm interacting with.

Since it's all scripted, I don't give a fuck. I'm just progressing the game.

>the statues after

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It's pretty much the only game I've seen that paints America as the true disgusting subhumans they really are.

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>if you let Briggs burn...

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>the statues if he burned

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fuck

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It's unsurprising someone who thinks like you defends this game. By your same logic if the game was good you wouldn't need to post in defense of it, yet here you are, posting repeatedly.

Here's another little gem I found

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>The snipers you kill at the start of "The Rooftops" are keeping a tally of the Insurgents they kill

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Fuck off, sandnigger

>losing my mind
Sure, whatever.
Any chance you actually answer the question?

How do you read this and not understand that the game is about WALKERs journey and YOUR participation in HIS actions?

It even mentioned platformers and that you are forced to jump. There is this one jump in Mario where you are riding Yoshi and you have to jump and let him fall down. Do you feel like a hero yet?

And you dont think this is quite basic? The guys told you that you cant shoot your way through. But you need the option to go and get killed to believe them?
What if the game had permanent death. No loads after you die. Would you still go down there even when everybody told you that you will die?

>After the helicopter crash, you can still see the 33rd keeping a tally on their kills. However a few of the contestants have been killed by Walker

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Not having a choice is already the default for 99 percent of games ever made. How is this interesting in the least?

Why have you been samefagging all week over this gay ass game? Do you think this is the only game to have violence in it? Its not special, fuck off already

A proficient mindreader? That's a rare find.

What the fuck is going on with the ground there?

>a game challenging American foreign policy in a market that's dominated by Americans isn't challenging because I don't like it

Case in point, look how the Amerimutt seethes when his country is mocked.

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>and YOUR participation in HIS actions?
they're your actions and you're trying to disassociate yourself from them by saying they were his actions. this is the entire point the writer was trying to push you colossal brainlet.

hey guys any of you read Heart of darkness?

Was Kurtis a terrible shot, unlucky or unwilling to shoot people?

Not even American, you goatfucking nigger

How are we supposed to know how Konrad looked like at the beginning of the game if we're supposed to see his face on billboards?

>Would you still go down there even when everybody told you that you will die?
Uh. Yeah? I mean, if it were hints earlier in the game that the game offers the player agency, why not? Remember that "DO NOT JUMP, YOU WILL DIE" hole in Neverhood? Can you name one person who didn't jump?

it's sand interacting with a metal plane floor.

>On "The Bridge", when you reach the end part of the level facing "Heavy Lugo", you will get a different loading screen if you die. It's a flickering black and white image of your White Phosphorous victims with an unknown female humming "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star".
>After loading back in, Walker shakes his head as if he's woken up from something.
>This only happens once, with "Heavy Lugo" turning back into a normal heavy.

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It's required reading in my guntree

retard

yeah

Why do you even bother asking that

Dogshit gameplay with a bastardized rip off story is what Yea Forums loves go figure the average age and IQ of this board.

You tried to say that the fact that criticism of the game exists was evidence it was good and the criticism obviously couldn't apply, dude. It's not hard to see why you think a game with similarly circular logic is intelligent, since you understand neither what you're saying or what the game says.

I see, Israeli then?

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>YOUR participation
What participation? Save a handful of moments that have no bearing on the overall story (and the obligatory "push your ending button" finale), you do not participate in Walker's actions. You're just there to watch him fuck up in cutscenes and scripted sequences.

We aren't, Walker knows what he looks like. It is there to show that things weren't quite right upstairs with Walker off the start.

I can only imagine this is the sad effort of some le ebin discord trolls

No, I was just mocking your attempts at pointing out something that has been pointed out hundreds of times already and answered just as many times.

>Walker knows what he looks like
Walker doesn't see or pay attention to Konrad's face being all over the place though.

But if we didn't know what Konrad looked like, the faces on the billboard might as well be anyone.

His action like his decision, not simple action like killing a guy. I can see why you would react this way. I should have worded it better. Its your action, but his Story.

You killing is your participation. Your actions. But you are following his story.

>muh Jews

Way to out yourself as a literal sandnigger. Isn't it goatfuck o'clock, Mohammad? Or it rape a 9 year old kid o'clock? Allahu akbar inshallah

even thats kind of silly, isnt it

>why are you enjoying this game?
gee I dunno, do you not want me to? is it supposed to be bad?

>As if the game was asking the player what they were actually getting out of yet another game where you play as an American soldier shooting people in a Middle Eastern environment.
Well yeah, I assume the reason most people stuck with it over the myraid of other chest high wall and/or modern warfare knockoff plot games out at the time was because the story was something unique. If it was just another generic story like they seem to want to shit on, it would have been ignored.

Having a game that would even be willing to ask that question itself means the question doesn't apply to that game, and so the message of "stop playing this generic thing again" is no longer valid

almost done fags

>in the final confrontation with Konrad, Walker can be seen mouthing the dialogue of Konrad, talking to himself.

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But we do know what he looks like. He appears at the end of the game.

>You killing is your participation. Your actions.
My actions during gameplay are disassociated from the story. Or do you mean to tell me that the place with the WP mortar had some kind of magical device that infinitely spawned enemy combatants? Gameplay should never be treated as an integral part of the storyline, unless handled very skilfully.

It's for second playthroughs. It's a way to show Walker's insanity, without it being completely obvious on the first playthrough

>Having a game that would even be willing to ask that question itself means the question doesn't apply to that game
Since fucking when? What is it with this binary mindset? You are allowed to criticize something you are partaking in. It might be lacking in integrity, but it does nothing to overthrow the critique itself.

Attached: Spec Ops: The Line.jpg (2023x2560, 1.33M)

Not a Muzzie, user. I just hate American foreign policy, getting into illegal wars with shithole arab states for no reason and causing the migrant crisis. Maybe you should stop licking your master's dick and realise it for a second.

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>Walker's insanity
If Walker sees Konrad's face everywhere, even in dumb and nonsensical places, why does he completely ignore it?

You were trying to mock me by posting something stupid that made it clear you have no idea what you're saying? Again, it's zero surprise someone like you is defending this game.

>Walker is wearing Konrads jacket

FUN FACT TIME
>According to Walt Williams, the lead writer: "Any time the game is doing a normal transition, it'll fade to black. Any time Walker is hallucinating, or lying to himself, in a kind of delusional fashion, the game will fade to white," he says. "The entire epilogue sequence where Walker goes home, it fades to white."
>When you stick someone with a sticky grenade, there's a chance they'll run over to one of their allies and hug them, killing them both. They'll often scream they don't want to die.
>In playing the game, you always finish a level at a lower elevation than what you started. You may go up at some points, but the level always ends with Walker going downwards. The exception is the final level. This means you are always descending.

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No matter how much lore analysis you do or how many times you try to argue that its a deep game about a specific character this game is
DOGSHIT BECAUSE THE GAMEPLAY IS BAD GO FUCK YOURSELF ITS LITERALLY MOVIE GAME TIER AND YOU WILL NEVER CHANGE THAT

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>every game has to be pong episode
lot of reruns on tonight

>According to Walt Williams
Stopped reading there. According to Walk Williams, he rewrote the game's entire script on a tissue hours before it was handed in because he wanted to get at one of his superiors. I'm not taking anything this guy said seriously.

Because it's not actually there, it's just meant to symbolise his obsession with finding Konrad. Keep in mind that Spec Ops is pretty much Walker's journey through Purgatory and he died in the Helicopter crash

Not that user, but maybe he thinks he's just fixated on his target and seeing his face. Or maybe he's unsure and thinks that mentioning it to his squad mates could lead to them thinking he's seeing things and cancelling the mission.

1) Because he's not totally sane
2) Because it would be stupid for the game to point these details out

They were shitting on generic modern military desert adventure shooter plots and the people that enjoy them. Their method of doing so is by making a game that explicitly breaks the mold of generic modern military desert adventure shooter plots, and then criticises it's players for playing it.

>lead writer of a game writes a game story
>NOT LISTENING BECAUSE HE'S A FAGGOT

sure bud.

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News flash, retard. Any country that gets to be top dog would do the same as America, probably even worse. You want Russia running the world? Or China? Grow up. This is how politics work and Americans are at least trying to stick to some half-imaginary idea of democracy. Russia and China would wreck everyone's shit first and not even try to justify their actions. Americans at least have SOME decency in their actions and frankly, keeping sandnigger countries in check is a good thing. You'll understand some of this when you're out of high school.

>My actions during gameplay are disassociated from the story
Thats where you are wrong though. If you played the game you performed the same actions as I did. As walker did. Because this was his story, not yours or mine. If you stray from Walkers story, you get stuck.

Imagine Walkers voice telling the story as you play. You walk into a room with enemies and walkers says "I walked in there expecting a fight and sure enough I got one. But these guys got more than they signed up for. Supported by my squat I took them one by one until the room was clear". You have the option to kill them all and do exactly what Walker said he did or you have the option to not do that, but then you cant progress the story unless you kill them. Which is what Walker did. But it is still YOU who are performing the killing. You are aiming, you are shooting, you are responsible for their deaths. You should take the blame for your action. Actions made in following WALKERS story.

>every game has to have good gameplay
yes and if you think not get the fuck out you dumb nigger and read a book instead

>maybe he thinks he's just fixated on his target and seeing his face
Never said or even hinted at in the game.
>2) Because it would be stupid for the game to point these details out
It wouldn't have been stupid if the player was given a glimpse of Konrad's face earlier in the game and it was up to their perceptiveness and memory to spot that same face later in the game, figuring out, by themselves, that something is off.

fuck off zoomer

>If you played the game you performed the same actions as I did.
Except those few spots where the game offers a bit of player agency for no reason. So yeah. No.

I thought it was kind of similar to the film(s) Funny Games, in that it's a horror / thriller type movie that's harshly critical of other movies in that genre.

I think the success of an approach like that of Funny Games or Spec Ops is dependent on the attitude of the consumer. If it's your inclination to feel as if the film / game is patronizing you for 'enjoying' something it deems to be questionable, you'll probably turn against it. If you're willing to acknowledge the dissonance inherent to these works though, I think you end up getting more out of it. What I'm trying to say is that both Spec Ops and Funny Games came off, to me at least, as being more curious than condemnatory; in that they're interested in what makes them interesting to people, rather than being hostile towards their respective audiences.

Its zoomers who love movie games tho?

>keeping sandnigger countries in check is a good thing
They weren't keeping them in check, they were tearing down the existing ones that were economically stable and secular and turning them into shitholes that ended up flooding Europe with shitskins.

There are dozens of answers to that that basically just say "because he's fucking crazy".

If your satire is pointing out how shitty something is by making something shit it doesn't change the fact that your game is shit

Fuck off brainlet

i told you to fuck off. don't reply to me ever again.

>You want Russia running the world? Or China?
Absolutely. I'd rather have Russia invading shithole Eastern European countries, or Chinese company exploitation of African nations than DIRECT American military intervention in the Middle East with no tangible benefit to Europe or America.
>frankly, keeping sandnigger countries in check is a good thing
How is destabilising Middle Eastern countries like Syria, Iraq and Libya that were previously okay to live in, and causing a flood of sandniggers into Europe and further causing a decline in whites in Europe a good thing you fucking idiot?

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>"I happened to have a copy of Heart Of Darkness on my desk," says Williams, "and thought 'Ehhh ... I'll just call him Conrad for now. But I'll spell it with a K!'"
>"A good name says something about the character. So I put it to the team: 'Who is our main character?' And no one said anything. So out of frustration I'm like, 'Well, I guess he walks a lot, so we'll call him Walker.' I forced the point, thinking that someone would come back with something better. No response. So Walker went down, and it never changed. People find things and read into them and say, 'Oh wow, you've put a lot of thought into this. There's a lot of subtext and metaphor here,' and you just go, 'Uh, yes. I totally did that on purpose and not by accident. I am a god.'"
Walt Williams is a hack.

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>Because this was his story, not yours or mine. If you stray from Walkers story, you get stuck.
>You are aiming, you are shooting, you are responsible for their deaths. You should take the blame for your action. Actions made in following WALKERS story.
This effectively means they are disassociated from the story. The player either has agency and responsibility, or neither.

But the experience only works if you self insert

And finally,
>"When we were doing the final voice recording, I got an email saying my boss had decreed the game would start with the chase. I knew he'd timed it so I would be too busy to fight it. I was unbelievably pissed. I decided the chase wouldn't be a flash-forward. The player would secretly die when the chopper crashed, and everything after would be a 'life flashing before your eyes' hallucination. I jotted down five quick lines, fed them to my actors, and recorded them immediately. That's all I had time to do. But it changed the narrative. Suddenly, a straightforward story about a soldier losing his mind became the tale of a man reliving his greatest failures as he dies alone. For something done entirely out of anger and as a knee-jerk response, I'm pretty proud of how it turned out."

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>If it's your inclination to feel as if the film / game is patronizing you for 'enjoying' something it deems to be questionable
the game has loading screen text calling you a bad person, this angle doesn't work if they're deliberately trying to invoke it with the subtlety of a sledgehammer

make me

>every book needs to have good prose
>every movie needs to have gorgeous visuals

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[citation needed]

>needs
Should. Otherwise it's going to have bad prose/visuals.

Nice argument change, there, buddy. Don't think I didn't notice.
The original question was why does Walker ignore Konrad's face, and, well, I answered that already. The new question, why does the game not allow you, the player, to figure it out on your first playthrough, well, simply because you're not supposed to until later in the story.

>barely 2 hours and 220+ posts already
This game really does trigger fags

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>Middle Eastern countries like Syria, Iraq and Libya that were previously okay to live in
Since when did those shitholes were ever “okay to love in”? The mudslime invasion only started when the kikes pushed the plan. Not because the military started to keep uppity browns in their place.

Sounds pretty kino to me.

So you're saying you can't criticize shoot the arab US military hero soldier games by making a shoot the arab US military hero soldier game where the US military hero turns out to be a lunatic that has lost the capability to differentiate fantasy from reality? Because the game didn't criticize you for anything. You can interpret it however you like, why do you believe the game is attacking you in particular? In fact, why do you choose to interpret this as an attack?

Yes otherwise its dogshit you dumb retard holy shit you are eating shit with a smile on your face then try to tell people eating delicious cake that their food doesn't have to taste good

>he never replies, so he technically makes you never reply to him ever again

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>the game has loading screen text calling you a bad person,
Not really, at least not directly. Every loading screen dialogue makes sense in the context of its application to Walker himself.

>food analogies
He's completely lost it, pack it up lads.

>why does Walker ignore Konrad's face
>"because he cray lol"
It's not an answer. The man has a psychotic obsession with Konrad. Konrad is his hero and mentor, and I'm supposed to believe he simply ignored the object of his obsession being plastered all over the city? For no good reason? In extremely unlikely places?

Konrad's face being Walker's delusion is not supported by anything in-game. Outside of the game, yes, it makes sense that the player would be shown these images as a kind of foreshadowing. The problem appears when you realise the player has never before been shown Konrad's face and thus can't seize on this foreshadowing.

It's a flubbed narrative device.

Libya pre-2011 intervention had free healthcare, free education and government sponsored programmes. Stuff like giving you money for children, or sending people off to European universities off the top of my head. Iraq under Saddam was kept in check and was a brutal dictatorship, but this mean there was no massive civil wars or ISIS pushing refugees out into Europe. Same with Syria under Assad. America literally funds and supported terrorist groups like al-Zenki.

>The mudslime invasion only started when the kikes pushed the plan. Not because the military started to keep uppity browns in their place.
See above, Refugees started fleeing to Europe in 2014. Qaddafi literally said that Europe "would turn black" if they ousted him because Libya acts as a gateway for all of Subsaharan Africa to flood into Europe from.
Also why do you think Israel supports keeping Muslims states unstable, you fucking moron?

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Yes, except those few little moments you had a choice. Is there an argument somewhere?

>This effectively means they are disassociated from the story.
It means the very opposite. You actions are DRIVEN by the story. Unless you do those actions, the story will not progress.

>The player either has agency and responsibility, or neither.
Thats a coping mechanism. When you are ordered to kill a child or be killed for desertion you should still feel bad for killing the kid, even if you had no choice. This is the first thing people say to PTSD victims "You were ordered to do those horrible things. It was not your fault. You just followed the orders". If you believe it, then you have beaten Spec Ops PTSD. For some players this is not enough. We still feel responsible for our actions, even if the action was ordered, or even if we didnt know that the action was bad until we did it.

>its application to Walker himself
>"You could have walked away."
>Walker literally can't walk away, as there's an invisible wall
???

Only people who hate food analogies are the ones who get BTFOED by them and cant reply properly :)

>So you're saying you can't criticize shoot the arab US military hero soldier games by making a shoot the arab US military hero soldier game where the US military hero turns out to be a lunatic that has lost the capability to differentiate fantasy from reality?
I'm saying that if the game had been that and only that we wouldn't even be talking about this right now. People played it and remembered it over some other shitty generic desert hoo rah game because it wasn't generic. So calling the player a meany because they were still playing it is stupid.

>Because the game didn't criticize you for anything.
really makes u think

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It's not really a narrative device if it's there for the player to discover and not for the protagonist. Konrad's face being or not being there has no bearing on the game's narrative if the game does not acknowledge it, you've said it yourself.

Sometimes that's the point, and the ugly prose or visuals are communicating a greater point, rather than bending to the wills brainlets like yourself, who value shallow aesthetic satisfaction over anything else.

Walker could have walked away if he stuck to the mission parameters. And you could have walked away from this thread. But on you marched. And for what?

Say what you want about the game, but it has proven to be interesting and thought provoking, even 7 years later.

>Walker literally can't walk away, as there's an invisible wall
That would be you not being able to walk away. Walker could have walked away anytime, but he didnt. He continued on. And as a result, you as a player, who follows Walkers story, are not permitted to walk away either. Does this answer your question?

>you literally have no other choice but to press the button to advance the game
>HOLY SHIT YOU'RE SO EVIL!!!111
Nah, go climb a wall made of dicks.

It could be that Walker was so far gone at some point that he was killing only for entertainment. That loading screen is calling his sanity into question. If you saw it as provocation, that's your own ego getting in the way friend.

And here we can see a brainlet in his natural habitat. Please do not take pictures with flash, he is easily startled.

Why those fucking massive walls of sand?
It's almost like he's in purgatory or some shit

> If you believe it, then you have beaten Spec Ops PTSD. For some players this is not enough. We still feel responsible for our actions, even if the action was ordered, or even if we didnt know that the action was bad until we did it.
but if we're completely abstracting the player from Conrad and saying that we should feel something for our actions, then the only actions we did as players was do things in a video game that had literally 0 meaningful moral effect in reality and therefore being moralised to about them is retarded

It's amazing just how assblasted it can make some people still.

>why do you believe the game is attacking you in particular?

I think the problems most people have with the game is they fail to realise this
>everything that happens in the game is walkers fault, and only walkers
>the loading screens are directed at the players, and the players only

The loading screens are passive-aggressive jabs at the players and why they're playing the game.

They start out normal, then get strangely specific:
>Sandboarding is an interrogation technique in which a detainee is choked by having sand forced into their mouth. It is highly effective
>Collateral damage is any incidental damage that occurs as a result of military action. Such damage is not unlawful if it is not excessive.
>The US military has a strict policy against the torturing of POWs.
>Squad commands are unavailable when you're alone. No one can help you now.

Then they get passive aggressive:
>Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two conflicting ideas simultaneously.
>Survivors of white phosphorus often suffer severe damage to the kidneys and liver, as well as the cardiovascular and nervous systems.
>Can you even remember why you came here?
>This is not the time for weakness.

You can find most of them here, they're great to look at
pastebin.com/w7x0LJ5w

>he was killing only for entertainment
The helicopter ride quote was a clear indicator of that
>"Take us around, I want to see what this thing can do".

>Walker sees Kornad's face on giant billboard in Dubai
>knows this is impossible, so doesn't verbalize it to his squadmates for fear of seeming insane and losing authority

What's so difficult to understand?

wrpg fags are the one who whine about muh choice

>Konrad's tower
that's the burj khalifa

fucking please, you'd have to be deliberately obtuse if you cant see how far they were up their own ass when they were writing this shit

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It isn't interesting at all. Literally every argument about this game is a bunch of people who played it as children talking about how profound it is while everyone else explains how fucking basic and uninteresting it is.

>all these generic military shooters
>lets make it "deep" for babby's first psychological horror
>but lets keep the gameplay generic and dull

Food's a little bit different buddy, and I think you know that. Most people buy / eat food with the hope that it'll taste good. Only the incurious, like yourself, go into every book / movie / game with the expectation of your most shallow desires (enjoyment) being satisfied. Some people want to be challenged, or to have their ways of thinking provoked.

If you think specops is deep and well written and all that maybe play planescape torment and have your brain literally explode you illiterate children.

That's just because Yea Forums doesn't know the difference between a debate/argument and angry gibberish and name-calling.

I completely agree. You didnt kill anyone. You didnt do anything bad in the real world. You are not a bad person. The game isnt telling you to question yourself. The game is telling you to question the game itself. Should the game be telling you to kill the rebels? Should the game be telling you to kill american soldiers? Should the game be telling you that you to kill civilians? If you ever thought to yourself "wait, what the fuck am I doing here?" while playing the game, you got the message.

Another game that did this very well is Metro 2033, where a character tells you that you need to do more than just mindlessly follow orders if you ever hope to break the cycle of violence. You need to think and gain deeper understanding of things.

>Konrad's face being Walker's delusion is not supported by anything in-game.
>Konrads face can be seen on the side of a building at the start of "The Edge".
>When you get down level to it later on, it's a circus ad

Also, it's not foreshadowing. I get that you've probably heard that term somewhere and now try to fit it into every discussion of storytelling techniques you're part of, but not everything has to be foreshadowing. As said, it's there as a clue that Walker was actually not quite all there from the get go.

>tfw already knew about the Willie Pete scene
>saw what those things did to children in Gaza
>knew that you can't avoid using the mortar
>tfw still genuinely emotionally fucked up by the aftermath
I'd say Spec Ops was effective fucking up the players

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Again, this could be interpreted as a critique of Walker himself, who is, by the end of the game, plagued with visions of things that clearly are not real.

>Some people want to be challenged, or to have their ways of thinking provoked.
>by a shitty videogame with dogshit gameplay
>by a videogame that literally rips of a book
If you don't want to be entertained by a fucking videogame because you are so full up your own ass then go read the book since its literally better in every way.

The loading text are clearly meant for player. It doesnt blame you for following Walkers story. It blames you for liking it.

He's dead, user.

That's the point. As Walker descends into complete insanity, so does the game become more aggressive in its rebuke of the player for enjoying what is a gradual decline of a tormented man into an unavoidable bad ending. It's part of the experience. Anyone whose mentality is not that of a child that starts crying when they're told they did something "bad" even if they are actually innocent, would be able to stand that or even enjoy it. That's taking advantage of videogames as a medium and interacting with the player on two levels. It's botched and could have been done in a much better way, arguably perhaps what they've accomplished here is unintentional because many of these things are leftovers of much more grand and sweeping ideas, but the cognitive dissonance caused by it is still ripping self inserting normalfags a new one, even after all these years, whenever they remember or experience this game. A good person won't become flustered when his character is called into question.

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its a two way street

Because America is the world, babe! WE run everything, we made all the culture lesser nations have today. Not a person out there who don't know USA, or American.

>by a videogame that literally rips of a book
You should stop embarrassing yourself by repeating things someone else had said while having no knowledge of your own on the subject. The game is only thematically similar to Apocalypse Now, the book itself is as far removed from this game as it possibly can be.

Based thinker. Please, read this. He got it right.

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the game should be trying to be a compelling piece of entertainment software that sticks to it's strong points (walker breakdown story/heart of darkness ripoff) and doesn't try le deep pseud freudian meta critiques like this retard

Just because its not a step by step retelling doesn't mean its not a ripoff.
Its literally the same themes but way way worse in the game.
Fucking retarded reality denying faggot.

The game is not a heart of darkness ripoff

>He was being a sperg with some other sperg arguing in an old Spec Ops thread so he made a thread to try and spite the other guy
Pathetic, even for this place.

.....are you ok dude? Are you having a stroke?

Then why explain at all? If it's not that interesting to talk about, then why discuss it?

>forced to kill people to progress the games story
>woah, this is like so deep and meaningful rlly mks me think about war...
Spec ops the line was shit

Congratulations on abdicating all responsibility for a democratic majority of your nation electing politicians who opened your borders and let them in. Remember you have no free agency and it's America's fault your country is populated by self-hating cuckolds.

I've read the book, unlike yourself clearly, as it has little to do with Spec Ops, especially in terms of subject matter.

And not every game has to be designed around maximising player enjoyment. That is a limiting approach.

>Just because it has nothing to do with the book and is inspired by one of its derivatives instead doesn't mean it's not a ripoff
Neck yourself.

>And not every game has to be designed around maximising player enjoyment. That is a limiting approach.
Jesus fucking christ why do people like you even play videogames?
Do you even understand what you fucking said you fucking retarded nigger?
This is why the videogames are fucking dead I hate this board.

Don't get me wrong, my country is cucked to shit and they do hold a decent part of the responsibility for letting them in. But the USA is the causal factor for WHY the refugees started flooding into Europe in the first place.

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We aren't discussing the game. We're discussing your terrible taste and non existent perspective. You thinking this game has anything at all to offer is the evidence that demonstrates that.

>doesn't try le deep pseud freudian meta critiques like this retard
The guy is just talking about cognitive dissonance, which was executed very well by the loading screens.
The fact that people hate it so much is the proof they succeed. Thats how a normal human being act when experiencing cognitive dissonance.
Now I am not saying that it is perfect or that some of your critique isnt valid.

But it really isnt, its an extremely generic shooter that just says your bad for for doing bad things.

>Its literally the same themes but way way worse in the game.
Explain?

>I get that you've probably heard that term somewhere and now try to fit it into every discussion of storytelling techniques
Here's another one for you. Ad hominem. Also, psychological projection.

>I came to this thread to inform people I am a dimwit
Noted.

>this cherry picked weirdo screeched at someone, fucking trannies disrespect us
>this gives me the right to shit on them all, especially the ones who are just calmly asking to be referred to with a different word

The game even spells it out in one of the loading screens, but you're talking to what essentially is a screaming child that closes its ears and repeats "Nanana I don't hear you" when presented with evidence to the contrary of its spergout.

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You are in this thread surrounded by literally shitstorm where people are slinging shit on each other because they carry an extremely strong opinion about the content of the game.

How can you say the game didnt succeed in being thought provoking?

>Me no want details no story, thinking hurt brain ME WANT SHOOTY SHOOTY, BAD MAN GO BOOM HAHAHA

There's always going to be a place and a market for quote unquote 'enjoyable' video games. Just like there's capeshit for people like you, who fret at anything remotely unconventional occurring on the cinema screen.

It's the deepest game of all time right behind Dark Souls and if you can't see this you're a brainlet and need to git gud.

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Based and Redpilled

>SHOOTY SHOOTY, BAD MAN GO BOOM
So, Spec Ops gameplay?

He's a riddle, wrapped in an enigma.

>it's there as a clue

You must be retarded. You're describing foreshadowing. XD

>The fact that people hate it so much is the proof they succeed.
How is that any different from "Jokes on them I was only pretending to be retarded"

The people here defending this game (eg this genius ) seem to think the reason people dislike the meta player critique thing is disliked because it struck a nerve for the normies who just wanted to hoorah on some dune coons, rather than the critique itself being hacky and forced

Why did I know you were only going to respond to that one line and conveniently ignore the rest of the post?

How is a bad game being obviously bad thought provoking? How does pointing out that it is obviously bad to retards demonstrate that it's actually thought provoking?

>rather than the critique itself being hacky and forced
That doesn't really say anything though. Provide examples of it being "hacky and forced", contextualize them and say how it could have been done in a better way. Otherwise it's just big words.

Spec Ops is extremely conventional, though.

I can't be. That other user told me it's only foreshadowing if you have enough information to decypher it before the part it foreshadows.

Self inserting is for low iq people

I wasn't evev aware that people did such a cringe and stupid thing

Because that's the only "argument" made?

>Provide examples of it being "hacky and forced"
White phosphorous scene

Specops is literally capeshit but with a shitty forced narrative on it

That's not an example and you know it. There being no choice was the entire point. Walker doesn't get a choice and neither do you.

who the fuck selfs inserts as that faggot?

>Walker doesn't get a choice
You're a retard. The whole point of the story is that Walker HAS a choice, but doesn't take it, making everything worse as a result.

I hate this meme. There are no capes, no superheroes, it's not based off a comic, not even an obscure one. How is it "capeshit"?

Bummed I didn’t get a chance to experience this blind. Is it worth a playthrough knowing pretty almost everything already?

There are two levels people discuss this game. There is the level you are on (as I understand) where you are saying that you understand what the game was doing, but you think the execution was flawed. And I agree with this view. The game is full of flaws in the gameplay that are weakening the message. For example the fact that you kill 400 enemies during the game and if you were allowed to shoot your way through the WP area, you probably could succeed.

Then there is another level that is caused by none other than the cognitive dissonance where people get violently aggressive in hating the game because it made them feel bad. This is the expected reaction. Cognitive dissonance is an awful feeling and the mind will fight very strongly to resolve it. The easiest way to resolve it in this case is to call the game shit.

There are people telling you that you are retard and the game is great. Both of you obviously thought alot about this and are now slinging shit at each other. Thats 315 replies right now of that because of a game 7 years old.

I've literally murdered hundreds of people in this game up to this point. Why, suddenly, am I unable to continue murdering them? Not because I'd actually be unable to, but because the game arbitrarily prevents you from doing so. Why do I have to fire every single shot of white phosphorous when I can take out 99 percent of the opposition without targeting the obvious civilian grouping? Again, because the game arbitrarily forces you to. Nothing about this is interesting or new.

This along with Max Payne 3 are is one of the first games I bought with my own money when I got a job.
Still remember it fondly.
Still glad to see some fags are STILL asshurt it's not Mass Effect, and are too ape brained to realize the emotional damage it caused them is in fact what makes it good.
Go ahead and tell me I'm wrong because blah blah blah and you don't feel guilty but you're still mad you were given the choice to be the super epic hero and not use the phosphorus.

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Capeshit shifted into anything thats very low brow generic entertainment for the masses like Specops gameplay.

I like the shooting but anyone who says that the devs weren't trying to make you feel like shit is deluding themselves and the way they handled it is clumsy and faulted.

Walker has choice in the context of the game universe, beyond what players can effectively action in game (ie, does something before hand to figure out it's civilians, or even fucking jumps a fence and runs away to never pull the trigger), the fact he doesn't and is critiqued for it makes sense and is fine.

The player however, doesn't UNLESS we're going down the path of not continuing to play the game, which is where the hackiness comes into it. The meta critique afterwards assigning blame to a player that effectively had no agency is the forced part.

I just feel like the game didnt really do a good job at what it was trying to accomplish, all the stuff people are bringing up in this thread are something the average player would only notice when its put in a Kotaku top 10 most subtle things list.
Its just being meta by aknowlidging its a video game about commiting bad things, thats not a big deal unless your a game juornalist or someone who pretends to be shocked during their lets play for views.

>emotional damage is good
Are you a woman? If so, are you based in London?

And how does WP factor into that? Do you suppose the game should allow you to just turn and walk away from it? Or from Dubai at the very beginning of the game like so many retards clamored that it would have made the game SO MUCH BETTER? What purpose would it serve other than letting you have an amusing zinger at how clever it was to let you do that?

It adopts a conventional aesthetic and mechanics to deliver a somewhat unconventional message. Just like pic related, for instance. For the record, I don't think the two are on the same level of quality, but it's just an example.

This is one of the worst posts I've read in a while.

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Being unable to immerse yourself in a game world or feel accountable when you make a mistake sounds more like something a woman would do to me.

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what does fucking mass effect have to do with spec ops?

>being emotionally damaged by a fucking videogame
Better a woman than a faggot.

>art has an obligation to satisfy my tiny brain!

>There are people telling you that you are retard and the game is great
Yes, those are the retards I already referred to.

>Thats 315 replies right now of that because of a game 7 years old
Who could have possibly guessed that there were so many retards around?

Yeah, even if you know the twist/premise its still pretty well executed and its still got a lot of interesting imagery and scenario design. I also don't think the game is as bad as a lot of people on here seem to think; its kinda standard sure but it executes well and its got some interesting stuff you don't always see in TPS games like COD-tier TTK, environmental interaction, executions, squad commands, etc. It's like this middle ground between SOCOM and Gears of War.

>all the stuff people are bringing up in this thread are something the average player would only notice
Those things are just the cherry on top. The main point of "Wait a second, what the fuck are we doing" was delivered clear and hard. The first time you got in fight with american troops your companions were very vocal about how fucked this situation is. And they continued to be vocal about it through out the game.

>not an argument
Sure thing, Molly. lol

If a game can't give you a feeling of stress or make you double take on decision making it's an awful game.
Nothing more shitty than a game that has "Choices" when they're no brainers.
"Hmmm, do I commit genocide on this orphanage to get a small power up or do I save the kids only to find out their parents are rich and I'm rewarded millions, man tough choice"

those puppy eyes are fucking uncanny

>Any country that gets to be top dog would do the same
>Its ok guys, i think that there might be some worse assholes out there if we stop being cunts
>You want Russia running the world? Or China?
Russia is in no way capable of running the world, its third world "WeWuzSovietsNShieeet" boogeyman. China on the other is at least more predictable and less retarded when it comes to wars.
>Americans are at least trying to stick to some half-imaginary idea of democracy
.....you're serious aren't you?
>Russia and China would wreck everyone's shit first and not even try to justify their actions
The US is doing literally that retard
>Americans at least have SOME decency in their actions and frankly, keeping sandnigger countries in check is a good thing
Alright then, either retarded or baiting. Here is your (You) and now go. God am i happy that the US will die in our lifetime. Your shithole country has been on the decline since the 90s and i'm glad when its gone.

based gorilla

Funny games is a good movie irrespective of it's message. Just like Scream is a good slasher irrespective of it's message. Spec Ops is a terrible game irrespective of it's message. If all you care about is the message, and not the delivery system, than I'm sure there already exist shitloads of free internet articles out there that have criticized the military shooter phenomenon long before Spec Ops ever existed.

People being asshurt they don't get to make "choices"
I'd rather one good story than several shitty ones

You did this.

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Yeah too bad it's still a mediocre third person shooter at it's core, would've been a great movie but it chose to be a boring game.

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The game had no choices that were meaningful for the narrative.

There are only two possible explanation then. Either you, an intellectual, are in a thread full of retard, which then you should do well to leave. Or you are ignorant enough to not to listen to the other side of the argument. Which again, everybody would prefer if you left.

This or you are smart enough to not choose either of these and instead ask questions and try to understand the point others are making. In which case you should participate in the discussion.

But all those things and the way it was delivered never managed to make me feel terrible or uneasy, I undestood what they were trying to go for but to me it was only a game going "Hey, you are in control , feel bad."

>There are two levels people discuss this game. There is the level you are on (as I understand) where you are saying that you understand what the game was doing, but you think the execution was flawed. And I agree with this view. The game is full of flaws in the gameplay that are weakening the message. For example the fact that you kill 400 enemies during the game and if you were allowed to shoot your way through the WP area, you probably could succeed.
>Then there is another level that is caused by none other than the cognitive dissonance where people get violently aggressive in hating the game because it made them feel bad. This is the expected reaction. Cognitive dissonance is an awful feeling and the mind will fight very strongly to resolve it. The easiest way to resolve it in this case is to call the game shit.

Thank you. I think it's easy for people to assume all criticism of this part of the game is the latter. I still think it's a good game that I would recommend to others, and do like Walker's story. I just think the meta part of it was gratuitous and weighing down otherwise interesting writing

man i missed every single one of these subtle things in the game. its a third person shooter im not paying attention to the signs and billboards and statues. im looking for ammo and shit

And?
Walker is one fucking man.
It's not like I'm trying to change my life story when I decide to stick my boss' toothbrush up my ass for revenge, it's merely an action that shows what kind of person you are.
Like shooting the CIA nigger or letting him burn.
I personally would shoot the guy because even if he did try to deprive those people of water, burning to death is a no go.
But small nuances evade you don't they? You're just some autist that looks at something like that and goes "UNGA HE DIE ANYWAY ME KEEP BULLET"

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Spec Ops is my favourite 7/10 game

Hop in a New Vegas thread sometime bud, you'll see what an actual discussion of a game's politics looks like when it's done right. One half is saying the game is just an uninteresting shooter that wears the mask of being a thought provoking war movie and the other have is desperately trying to convince themselves that it isn't. You're fucking delusional if you think this is the type of thread a "thought provoking" game breeds.

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The delivery system in each of your examples is crucial to the message though. Spec Ops would not work as intended as an internet article; many of the narrative set ups are established through the gameplay.

If you're arguing the quality of that gameplay, then I'll concede to your own discretion. If you didn't enjoy it, you didn't enjoy it. But enjoyability is not the only metric by which art is judged.

Except I didn't it was poorly written and had it's head stuck so far up it's own ass it was choking on yesterday's breakfast.

you do get to make choices, they're just barebones as shit
also this, game's fucking boring as fuck, I cant believe that there are people praising the story or any other factor outside the gameplay

It wouldnt work half as good as a movie. You cant be blamed for killing people if you are just watching somebody killing people.

Well, you were in control. You did those objectively horrible things. If you didnt feel bad, you had to cope somehow with it. One way to cope is "I see what they are trying to do here, but I see flaws in some parts and as such I see through it and I wont bite". And that is a legit opinion to hold. But it is important to understand that it is a way to cope with the bad things. There is enjoyment in understand this, isnt there? Its a legit way to experience the game and its message.

Refer to

I unironically think that the Call of Duty game where you pilot a drone is more disturbing than this game, because it has a detachment from the actions you're committing, and you, playing it on a keyboard/mouse, or with a controller, mirrors the way actual drone pilots pilot these things, and the complete lack of intonation from your compatriots as you bomb hundreds of people, it really unnerved me. Whereas the WP scene in this, while visually jarring, isn't something the player can avoid. What would be more shocking, is the bit where Walker has the choice to gun down the entire village of civillians that hanged your man, and then ensuing silence after you murder them

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You seem to have lost yourself somewhere along the way. SOTL has a linear story that prompts reflection, not urgency or pressure in decision making. If you are looking for that in it, it's a mistake and
>If a game can't give you a feeling of stress or make you double take on decision making it's an awful game.
Is ridiculously absolutist.

Why are you continuing to be retarded? An argument existing does not indicate that something is profound or thought provoking. People argue with retards all the fucking time. This is trivial.

Because it's retarded. You don't make a choice; it's an on-rails game as it gets, so you don't have any personal investment in it since you didn't do shit.

People that say "hurr durr you could just stop playing!!" are mega-retarded, that isn't an option presented in the game and shouldn't be used as an excuse

Don't fucking compare this to blade runner you cock gobbling faggot.

>You cant be blamed for killing people if you are just watching somebody killing people.
It's a fucking video game you stupid shit, it's not fucking real. If anyone praises this game for the reasons you're praising it for, they must think Jack Thompson was right.

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Thats not me "coping", not once did I think "Oh god, that thing I did sure was messed up, I better actively convince myself its just a game so I dont feel bad, damn this game is making me question my actions".

>posting a random image from my folder means I'm comparing it to something
Feel free to fuck off anytime, autist

more like mia khalifa

I appreciate what they were trying to do with spec ops. Unfortunately the devs created a great story about a guy going insane and then layered in some stupid loading screen tips implying the player actually has any agency in what's happening in the game. Then they said some really stupid shit in interviews about how the player has the choice of quitting the game. They obviously intended players to self-insert and then make them feel bad for it. I generally don't self-insert in video games, maybe in like FPSs or something.

Despite all that I still like to replay the game occasionally, the story is great, I just pretend the stuff directed at the player doesn't exist. Definitely worth a play through anyway.

Feel free to play better games anytime, faggot.

>babbie's first "you were the monster all along"

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Whenever people hold such strong opinions about a game, you can be sure that there are strong points for either side.
I personally really enjoyed the game. I actually enjoyed firing the WP after hours of dealing with the enemies. I felt powerful. I was having fun. It hit me like a train when I saw what I did. I also opened fire to the mob that killed my squadmate. I never even considered firing in the air or ground. In fact I chased them trying to kill as many as I could. You can say that I am the perfect "victim" of the game. Every trick they pulled worked. I did it, I enjoyed it, I felt horrible afterwards. But even I can clearly see that the game has weak parts, some pretentiousness and some bad design choices.

Seems like you are not enjoying this thread then.

This. CoD 4 in general is pretty explicitly anti-war, (the later games seem to have lost that subtext completely) but it was subtle enough that no one noticed. Unlike Spec Ops, which is effective in parts, but it really beats you over the head with its message.

Literally the only thing games can do that other mediums can't is provide interaction. All of Spec Ops message is defined through the denial of interaction. Ergo, nothing about Spec Ops message requires it exist as a game.

>do bad thing to continue
>wow you should feel bad now :/

Care to elaborate? Throwing an insult onto something doesnt make for a good discussion starter.

I know, I am arguing with you right now. Sounds thought provoking to me.

kekked and checked

"HURR I'M A GENERAL MY LIFE LONG ACCOMPLISHMENTS ARE MY REASON FOR BEING"
"Hm... this lad makes a good point, I will now make an executive decision and disregard direct orders because he's so charming"

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That denial of interaction is only significant because it's a game though.

>It's a fucking video game you stupid shit, it's not fucking real.
Are you telling me you are unable to feel responsibility or regret for things you have done unless it was in real world? I find that hard to believe, but if you dont then fair enough. Most people are though, which is what makes a game a superior medium for this kind of story.

this actually works for both grover telling you not to keep turning the pages and the fact the monster at the end is grover

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Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two conflicting beliefs simultaneously.

Nobody ever thinks that. Thats not how one cope. It wouldnt be very effective mechanism if you simple knew you were coping.

Oh but thats the beaty of it dont you see?This is you trying to dismiss your horrible actions by thinking its just a psuedo intellectual bullshit in a generic shooter.
Fucking hell this thread full of bullshit.

NO NO NO BROS IT'S ALL COMING BACK

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>play a video game
>if you've played video games before you'd know they usually tell you to do something to win
>said video game tells you to do something to win
>do the thing
>YOU FUCKING MONSTER, DO YOU FEEL LIKE A HERO YET?

Yeah real thought provoking.
>Are you telling me you are unable to feel responsibility or regret for things you have done unless it was in real world?
Yeah but only when I'm in control of the things going on you stupid faggot, and no, turning off the game isn't a real choice.

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>Are you telling me you are unable to feel responsibility or regret for things you have done unless it was in real world?
This would be more valid in this game if you had literally any other choice other than doing the 'super evil naughty u better think about this' thing besides LE TURN OFF THE GAME

No, it isn't. 99 percent of games are already terrible at providing meaningful interaction. Spec Ops hasn't subverted anything because it's just doing what the vast majority of games already do. Subverting genre conventions would mean actually providing meaningful player choice. Instead, all it's done is point out the lack of choice and then pretended it's exposed some massive secret. This same thing could have been accomplished equally in any written critique of an existing military shooter without forcing a player through shitty, braindead shooting galleries.

>I can't deal with false accusations: the post

This game really is Yea Forumss very own Bladerunner 2049
Retarded children thinking its deep and a masterpiece

So your telling me this game is such a masterpiece that Its making me cope subconsiously and all my denial is just reinforcing the fact that it accomplishes what ever its trying to do perfectly?
Kill yourself you fucking retard.

You calm down and get over it eventually. Don't worry, you're still a good person.

>turning off the game isn't a real choice.
why not?

SO LONELY

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>Yeah but only when I'm in control of the things going on you stupid faggot, and no, turning off the game isn't a real choice.
You are in control. But you do not have a choice. Imagine you are a soldier. Imagine a kid with bomb vest running towards your squad. You dont have a choice, you have to shot the kid. Are you telling me you would not feel bad?

There are simply no win situations in life. You cant control everything. Sometimes you make choices that at the time, with the information you had, were optimal, but you end up hurting people. Do you not feel bad in those situations?

Because I bought a fucking product and turning off the game would be a waste of my goddamn money all so a bunch of emotionless code can feel better. Why does Spec Ops attract so many pseudo-intellectuals?

It's a fucking game, get over yourself.

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But he wouldn't have cognitive dissonance in the same way he wouldn't after watching a movie.
It's like if Hatred tried to guilt trip you for it when the only way to progress is killing enough innocents.
God damn this game is placed on a pedestal way too often by people who have very clearly had this be their first time media gave this sort of message.

>Imagine a kid with bomb vest running towards your squad. You dont have a choice, you have to shot the kid. Are you telling me you would not feel bad?
Except this isn't the choice presented in the game. The choice is whether to drop a bomb on an obvious grouping of civilians after you've already defeated everyone standing in your way.

Is this a quote from the game?
Holy fuck thats pretentious why would I ever question my own morality based on a trash vidja game and not on me masturbating to loli.

too bad the gameplay was utter ass

>Expecting these pea brained apes to understand nuance beyond "UNGA BUNGA THIS VIDEO GAME ME NO FEEL BAD FOR VIRTUAL PEEPLES"

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Is there a video out there that shows all these little things I've missed?

No, thats not what I am saying. I am saying that if you are killing people right and left in the game and you feel nothing because "the game told me to", then you are coping. Coping is always subconscious. You found yourself an excuse for doing a horrible thing. You are deflecting the guilt to the game. Thats how people cope.

What s oy-fuelled brainlet only managed to glean that from reading Heart of Darkness

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If you're arguing that the message was misguided or ineffective, that's fine. But I think it was important that its message was delivered by way of a video game because of that aforementioned denial of interaction, and because its message was targeted towards people who play shooters like Call of Duty. It was more likely to reach that audience in the form of an actual game than an article online.

>This same thing could have been accomplished equally in any written critique of an existing military shooter without forcing a player through shitty, braindead shooting galleries.
That's not true at all. Spec Ops had a lot of good visual elements that helped to convey the theme very well, excellent soundtrack and good voice acting, with the voice actors recording all the lines in a single take and his voice becoming much more worn down by the end of it, which only contributes to the game's representation of his loss of sanity and general fatigue of Walker and his squadmates.

I'd feel bad about that yeah (although it's kinda par for course in that sort of insurgency setting)
But I'm not shooting a kid, I'm playing a video game that gives me literally no choice otherwise. Why should I feel guilt, why does the game try to make you feel guilt? If you abstract the player from the situation by removing any form of agency, you can't them expect them to shoulder any sort of blame. That decision is entirely Walker's, because the player literally can't do anything else. What the fuck are you looking at me for

here we go again, god I hate you

>anyone who wasn't moved by the hamfisted parody this game was is simply a brainlet

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>Because I bought a fucking product and turning off the game would be a waste of my goddamn money
Maybe don't buy generic brown shooters anymore then?

>Do you not feel bad in those situations?
No because at the end of the day I have a controller in my hand and I'm watching a bunch of manmade pre-determined set of actions on a fucking screen. I can't feel bad, I literally can't, I'm not Walker, I had 0 choice in any of the actions that unfolded other than to LE TURN OFF TEH GAME WOAH SO DEEEEEEP.

I said in a thread a while ago Undertale fans and sony niggers were the worst, but Spec Ops fags are actually delusional if they think this type of story telling is in any way deep or thought provoking.

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None of it is real, so why should you care?

>It's a fucking game, get over yourself.
This entire thread is about us talking about a game.

There is no choice in game. You cannot hope to survive if you dont use WP. The game tells you. Walkers decides to use it. But it is you who push the button.

Thats absolute bullshit, this has the depth of someone running up to a bunch of kids playing cowboys and indians screaming "YOU ARE FELLING BAD ABOUT MURDERING YOUR FRIENDS BUT ARE SUPRESSING IT BY SAYING ITS JUST PRETEND!".

Ctrl+f "imgur" in the thread. A guy has been dumping this stuff throughout the first half of this thread.

Who the fuck bought this not already knowing it was a parody game? Fucking no one, that was the entirety of word of mouth surrounding the game.
Is that why you think it's deep, because it snuck up on you?

The game's just interrogating the player, it's not a guilt trip per-se, or at least I didn't interpret it that way. The game was just asking what people find enjoyable about mowing down endless waves of people.

>This entire thread is about us talking about a game.
No they're talking about the story, the actual game part of the game is a generic third person shooter and not a goddamn person here would deny that.

>Walker starts the game with proper Trigger discipline
>By the halfway mark, his finger stays on the trigger all the time

Exactly.
Lolis aint pedo

You were clearly moved enough to walk into a thread making fun of people triggered by it and to prove how much it didn't move you by meticulously explaining why it didn't move you because it's so bad.
Based brainlet bro.

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None of those things have anything to do with what we are talking about and none of them rely on this being a game. If you want to argue that Spec Ops would make for a good movie about a guy slowly losing it, then do that. But this is utterly irrelevant to whether anything Spec Ops did was of any interest or novelty as a video game.

>horrible thing
>guilt
it's a video game you fucking Jack Thompson parody
people aren't that fucking dumb, they know they're playing a video game and not doing things that actually have moral effects IRL
>u should feel bad because you pulled r1 and triggered a melodramatic cutscene because we gave you no other choice unless you wanted to not stop playing the game you got
>and btw if you dont you're ACKSHUALLY coping
no fuck you

Why are you so mad if you knew exactly what it was going in? Why'd you even spend your money in the first place?

>What the fuck are you looking at me for
I want you to think about what Walker is doing and ask yourself "Should I be doing this?". You have no choice. You have to follow through. Its Walkers story. But you should feel that the game want you to do fucked up things, yet you are forced to do them to proceed. The game is rewarding you for it. You should be experiencing cognitive dissonance.

The same crowd that thinks this game is great and deep is the same crowd what wants to remove violence from games because it turns you into a schoolshooter.
Think about who you are arguing with.

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>whether anything Spec Ops did was of any interest or novelty as a video game.
It did, which caused so many people to actively dislike it. The aforementioned loading screens that caused so much assravaging. I can't seem to recall another game that has done a similar thing.

You want a ten page dissertation on agency in videogames faggot? Too bad.

let's settle this once and for all
strawpoll.me/17581475

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Thats how games usually work, you play them to get forward.

>You cannot hope to survive if you dont use WP
You clearly can. You kill thousands across the course of the entire game. You also kill virtually every single enemy in the camp before you drop the last bomb on the civilians. Nothing about those civilian deaths was required given what was already established within the game. You're arbitrarily forced into it because there's no way to progress otherwise.

Are you sure about that? Because I liked the game and I think violence in videogames is great too.

>I'm watching a bunch of manmade pre-determined set of actions on a fucking screen
So in order to protect yourself, you reminded yourself that you are playing a line of code made by some guys on their computers? You coped with the guilt. And thats a legitimate way to enjoy the game.

Well, yes. If we actually did hurt our friends. If you shot a toy arrow from your toy bow to your friends eye, you could cope with the guilt by saying we were playing. Thats very legit way.

I'm ITT to decipher why the fuck people were so impressed by this game

Because that can be an interesting premise? I've got nothing against the concept I just found that there was nothing else going on to entertain those who already knew what it was. I guess it's like DokiDoki or Duck Season where the concept is all it offers and those spoiled by word of mouth can never get to enjoy it.
Also I pirated this of course.

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This game is a great candidate for the "videogames as art" argument.

Does any other videogame ignite such violent debate among retards on Yea Forums?

>what was already established within the game
Gameplay and story disconnection, Walker definitely didn't kill hundreds of people with his trusty assault rifle from the narrative standpoint.

From what I've been reading ITT Spec Ops fags should think Undertale is an honest to god masterpiece by default, because the things they're praising it for are things Undertale does 10x better on an objective level.

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Argumentum ad populum

>I want you to think about what Walker is doing and ask yourself "Should I be doing this?".
The answer is literally yes because if I don't (perform this clearly bad action just like an infinite other amount of bad actions I do in video games I play) I have to put down the game because there's no other way

>You have no choice. You have to follow through. Its Walkers story. But you should feel that the game want you to do fucked up things, yet you are forced to do them to proceed. The game is rewarding you for it. You should be experiencing cognitive dissonance.
Fuck off with this absolutely brainlet take on cognitive dissonance. I have no choice so I don't feel fucking any guilt, not to mention it's literally a video game so even if this game did just pull a Fable and let people not bomb the civs some still would because lol why not

>Also I pirated this of course.
I'm guessing you're not this guy then?

Video games have been criticized for fucking ever. Including criticisms in the loading screens might be novel from a presentation standpoint, but absolutely not from a message standpoint. The reason people dislike it is because it's a shitty game that retards such as yourself seem to think is important because it said some shit that everybody already was fully aware of.

You wouldn't need any more than a couple sentences to sum up Spec Ops message on player agency.

Music, visual direction, attention to detail, an unusual twist in a very typical scenario.

Yes, Forthnite and Apex.
I guess they are art too.

>way to enjoy the game
Except I didn't because the game part of the game is a fucking bore. It really doesn't matter if the game's story did it's job in making you feel bad or not, at the end of the day it's still a generic grey brown military shooter snorefest.

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

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Yes. You are forced into it because thats what Walker did. Complaining about WP is is like Complaining that you cant turn around and just back out of Dubai. You are following Walkers story.

And that is a good way to cope with the guilt. Remind yourself that it is just a game.

>So in order to protect yourself
Jesus christ you fucking pseud faggot kill youself
Is it just one guy shoving his hole hand up his ass acting Freud in this thread or is it a spec ops fan thing

>I'm gonna tell you why you like this game
Nah, fuck off.

>WHAT?? MORE THAT ONE PERSON DISLIKES THIS GAME IMPOSSIBLE, I THOUGHT IT WAS Yea Forums CORE!!!!!
Sorry bro.

It would of been cool if at the scene where your mate is getting hanged you could have the choice to save him or shoot at the civilians. And better yet they could make the good routes harder to achieve imagine having to fight all those soldiers in the white phosphorus scene while one of your team mates tells you how much more efficient it would be to use the mortars, after dying a bunch of times you'd probably go for it.

And they'd be right, Undertale is not a bad game at all, but I guess the Yea Forums consensus would not allow you to praise it here because you must hate popular things. And because some furfag on tumblr managed to get his OC into it as a patron reward or something even though you'll never meet him in game.

>cope with the guilt
are you a child

>Music, visual direction
Meh
>attention to detail
Absolutely, godlike in that regard
>an unusual twist in a very typical scenario.
Again maybe if I randomly picked up this brown shooter instead of having it recommended I would have been more thrilled

Nope

huh? I just wanted to check who it was who I was arguing with. You were the only one who replied to my post, and I thought I was arguing with someone who was angry because they spent money on the game.

And thats what the game wants for you, in addition to thinking about what you are doing to progress.

That is the main point of the game. In random shooters you are told to go there, kill the bad guy so you can proceed. But you never stop to think if you should kill those people. You believe that it is a good thing to do, and the game reinforces you in this. But Spec Ops does the opposite. It tells you to go there and kill people, it rewards you wiht progress upon killing people. But it never reaffirms you that killing them was a good thing. In fact it is constantly showing you that it was probably a horrible thing to do.

Hating on Spec Ops is a meme regurgitated by retards. Hating on Undertale is a meme regurgitated by retards. Sounds about right.

That's the fucking point. Your message has no weight whatsoever when your whole, "You never had a choice" thing only exists because the game suddenly decides that you can't just shoot your way through hundreds of enemies.

>but I guess the Yea Forums consensus would not allow you to praise it here because you must hate popular things.
I'm guessing you missed all the Delta Rune threads huh newfag?

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>Remind yourself that it is just a game.
Which it is. I don't feel guilty because I could have turned off a horrifying movie but decided to keep watching.

>music
>meh
You gotta be kidding, right?

>>Music,
>>meh

pleb

youtube.com/watch?v=I0mC__bGcmM

Yea, like science is.

>who I was arguing with.
Who cares, every user should be a different person in your eyes, they very well could be and most of the time are. This isn't fucking reddit.

So it's a worse Bioshock as well as being a worse Undertale?

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Undertale isn't the only game in existence that lets you choose between good thing and bad thing. Spec Ops is different, because devs were too much of a brainlets too convey the message that BAD THING BAD in any way other than removing choice.

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>knew the gimmick of Undertale and still enjoyed it
>knew the gimmick of Spec Ops and was bored out of my mind, even putting gameplay aside
Also I just realized this game is like 7 years old, so it genuinely was babbie's first "you are the monster" for zoomers

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>Bioshock
>Undertale
We can't keep comparing this game to other forms of media that aren't video games, we're getting nowhere. So I ask you Yea Forums, Why did Bioshock and Undertale work, but Spec Ops didn't.

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>The answer is literally yes
That is such a shallow way to look at it. You NEED to do it to progress. You really shouldnt be doing it.

>Fuck off with this absolutely brainlet take on cognitive dissonance.
Care to point out why you dont agree with it?

>Except I didn't because the game part of the game is a fucking bore
True, the gameplay is shit.

Yes, probably. What it succeeded in though is marketing as a random shooter. The brown army audience bought this game and got a shell shock.

I don't see how that follows if gameplay and story are disconnected. You can get through the game without taking a single bullet, but Walker will still end up being burnt and scarred by the end of it. That was the point the story presented, it was set in stone. No matter how many soldiers you could kill, more would appear, not until you used the white phosphorus. Those were the game's rules.

Name a better example of it in vidya

I liked the gameplay and I thought it was solid if not better than most BROWN shooters at the time.

Squad orders was totally fucked though

>That is the main point of the game. In random shooters you are told to go there, kill the bad guy so you can proceed. But you never stop to think if you should kill those people. You believe that it is a good thing to do, and the game reinforces you in this. But Spec Ops does the opposite. It tells you to go there and kill people, it rewards you wiht progress upon killing people. But it never reaffirms you that killing them was a good thing. In fact it is constantly showing you that it was probably a horrible thing to do.
woah
it
really
makes me think
damn
maybe the bad guys
are ourselves
and killing
is wrong

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So you like it for it's shitty combat? Because that's the only thing it offers as a game outside of it's shitty message.

Deadly Premonition is the best game of the 2010's and it has dogshit gameplay

ok man

Wow, what a game changer.Really activates my almonds.
This tread is just full of retards trying to justify "You played it, you did bad thing in game and whatever you say now is you coping with it." as some sort of valid point about this game being somehow above average.

...

Nice, I am glad I was able to show you our side of argument. This is exactly why I love talking with people about this game.

is he ok?

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kek based

Right. How dare I shoot at people who were trying to kill me. I should really go fuck myself for even having the gall.

If you think the game is bad and uninteresting, then why are you in this thread?

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Because Bioshock's "you're following orders" had a literal reason for it mind control

Undertale's "why are you killing the enemies" had choice - you didn't need to kill them

Spec Ops had neither

Are you new to Yea Forums?

Deadly Preminition is shit
>its supposed to be bad :DDD
Fuck you its just a Twin Peaks ripoff but its one of my favorite games of all time.
Its not a good game tho not at all.

So watch a movie. This is a discussion about a shitty game.

>no you see this isn't actually a flaw it's just satire/the MC is insane
There's no point in talking about this game, it's like talking about Stanley Parable where the slightest criticism receives the "it's on purpose bro" response

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To tell you your taste is shit. Your taste is shit.

It's a question I ask myself alot when browsing here.

This right here user
At the end of the day Bioshock and Undertale, despite their gimmick twists, are still very enjoyable and well designed games at their core. Spec Ops isn't, it's as simple as that. We could badger around the bush and cry all day about whether the game "made u le feel bad or not", but it all boils down to an un-enjoyable and boring grey brown military shooter, and fucking believe me, Spec Ops shills know this too, they won't deny it.

Because they haven't, and they can't.

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>le epic smartass response
This is how I know you have no argument.

If you think this game is good why did you reply to this shitty thread?

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You should kill them in self defense, obviously. Doesnt change the fact that an American mother isnt getting her son Tommy, who joined military to help protect American the dream, back.

I love how some people ITT are praising the game for having shit gameplay

The moment civilians attack soldiers they become combatants. Fuck em.

Because There was more there to entertain in those games, it wasn't just the message standing by itself on stage trying to be a band
Spec Ops is shallow even if it has some nice touches

>you don't have a choice
Fucking christ you absolute retards refuse to get it don't you. You know the only time the game acknowledges the player is in the opening credits? Your account name is credited as "Special Guest", you are not a participant in the narrative you are simply an observer too it. You troglodytes cannot understand the simple concept is that is it Walker making the decisions to move forward, the only choices you make as a player is ''moral'' choices for Walker. Walker chooses to disregard his mission objectives at the very start of the game, within 5 minutes of gameplay, everything else you do in the game a consequence of his decision making.
What do you decide as a player?
- Shooting the first american solder you meet.
- Saving the surrounded civs or sneaking by to get to CIA faster
- The two hung guys
- Shooting the water truck man
- Shooting the civs who killed Lugo or not
- Deciding what ending Walker gets, which is important as you are placing judgement on Walker in a sense for his actions, which are:

1. Disregard his original orders to find refugees
2. Begin combatting with the 33rd
3. HE DECIDES TO USE THE WHITE PHOSPHORUS AND BLAME THE 33RD
4. He chooses to help CIA water man and doom the few left in the city
5. Hunting and killing the radio DJ
6. And importantly, he was the one to decide to chase down Konrad.

>Durrr why didn't Joel leave Eli with the fireflies I didn't have the choice durr
Yes because Joel made that choice and that's the point of TLOU's ending is that Joel made an inherently selfies choice, dont bother debating about if sacrificing Eli would of actually cured anything, it doesn't matter.
Walker is the same, he is the one to keep pushing forward, he is the one calling the shots, you're just a passive viewer, and the fact that drooling retards still can't accept the simple fact that you are not Walker, and that Walker makes decisions on his own is stupid.

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you're just viewing a post-modern piece of media through a modernist paradigm, user
It provides meta-commentary which makes it have valuable post-modern attributes, but its gameplay is admittedly crappy making it have little valuable modern attributes.
It really is just a matter of perspective

>waaaaaa waaaaaaa, my criticisms aren't going unchallenged, waaaaaaa, I actually have to argue my points!

As a Spec Ops shill I can confirm. The gameplay is shit.

I think it's bad, but not uninteresting. If you want a cirlcejerk of the same opinion being parroted over and over again, may I suggest reddit?

This is Yea Forums gameplay or being a good game is the least important thing here.

>all these faggots are unironically telling anons how they should've felt when playing the game
>none of these said fags can retort the fact that the game is shit regardless of the story

This is so fucking sad, SOtL fags are pathetic.

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>art has to be enjoyable

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You sure showed me redditbro

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No argument against what? I have no fucking issue with you enjoying Spec Ops story at all. There's nothing terribly unique about a guy descending into madness with little visual cues and foreshadowing in the buildup to a twist ending, but there's nothing especially offensive about it either.

But the idea that this game is at all unique or interesting or has anything to offer as an actual game is fucking retarded. And if you think this game is unique or interesting or has anything to offer as a game than you are equally retarded. That's what this thread is about. No one gives a shit if you think the soundtrack is good.

This guy presented his argument like a faggot, but he know what he is talking about. Read it.

Doesn't matter if the gameplay is bad. It's an incredible game and objectivelt better than games with better gameplay.

Good gameplay doesn't make a good game and bad gameplay doesn't make a bad game

Not that guy but are you retarded? The criticisms have been posted many times over ITT, and the only response you retards have had is "it's supposed to be bad". You actually admit it's bad but that's okay because it's intentional? I don't even fucking know anymore

do you think the soldiers commited mass rapes in Dubai when it was closed off due to the storm?

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>video games don't have to be enjoyable
youtu.be/FdxEUL18ySY

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>user got so anally anhilited last thread that he made an entirely new thread about it

So why should I feel guilty about Spec Ops but not TLoU?

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Those are not choices, thats just gameplay.

>video games
>art

I love this meme

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>Game discussed literal years after release
>"HURRR IT'S SHIT"
Stay upset, faggot.
Eat the shit out of my ass while you discuss this game and try your best to pretend it still isn't discussed when you're fucking contributing to it.
Mad?
I bet you are.
Reply to daddy bitch, show me I'm you're fucking master.

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>unchalleneged
>ummm no ackshually you don't not like it because it's bad, you don't like it because you're coping with guilt and ~~~~~cognitive dissonance~~~~~

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cringe

The only difference is that Im not trying to write an article about how deep and meaningful it is so that Ill get paid for clicks.

>here's nothing terribly unique about a guy descending into madness with little visual cues and foreshadowing in the buildup to a twist ending
There is in videogames. I could count vidya that does that as well as Spec Ops did on a single hand. It'd be Silent Hill 2, Eternal Darkness and Dead Space.

>wojakposter defends spec ops
Pottery
It has to be compelling to be impressive, it wasn't

>You actually admit it's bad but that's okay because it's intentional?
Never watch a John Waters or Harmony Korine film user; it might cause irreparable damage to your tiny mind.

*selfish choice for the TLOU comparison obviously.

I'm not one to defend the gameplay of Spec Ops, it's 5-6/10 is a passing grade for myself as the narrative is far stronger than any other military shooter or most games. Yes that is an aspect of being an adaptation of Heart of Darkness but it's still comendable as they could of fucked it up regardless of the source, but they didn't, they made something people stil argue about.

If only the retards could actually argue about any of the interesting stuff rather than
>gayme said i bad person, gayme bad

You can hate Spec Ops all you want, but if you say you dislike it because the game was blaming you specifically for what happened in Dubai you are unironically a brainlet and deserve to have an opinion you have on the game discarded.

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PUT DOWN THE GUN TODD

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So is your point that there isn't actually any meta player criticism? Because if not, all you've said is that the guilt shit is pointless because it's all Walker

Art exists to entertain.

The gameplay was supposed to be shit, you fucking dense brainlet. It was a satire of the terrible cover based shooters that were dominating the market at the time. Anything other than bad gameplay wouldn't get the message across. I hate how many complete idiots are allowed here.

They probably did that and many other things a lot worse than that.

Thank you Todd, very cool!

I'm not sure if this game has any equal to the sheer polarisation of opinions it generates on this board.

Sure, Yea Forums hates all games. But when this game comes up, the thread goes on for hours with both sides absolutely fuming.

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>I enjoy shitty entertainment

I bet you're one of those faggots that "ironically" listens to complete shit music. Go suck your boyfriend's cock you hipster fag

>Doesn't matter if the gameplay is bad. It's an incredible game
This thread in a nutshell
It fucking has it in the name
"gameplay"
"game"

No, art exists. The rest is up to the observer.

>It was shit on purpose, thats the joke.

>>video games don't have to be enjoyable
Correct

The Todd Howard image makes your post feel extremely ironic. Want to talk about the meta narrative and satire of RPGs in Skyrim next SpecOpsbro?

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t. naughty dog

Art would not exist if it didnt entertain someone.

>I'm so smart I enjoy terrible entertainment

Wow, I wish I was as enlightened as you

>complete shit music.
Give examples and I'll be able to tell you.

This isn't a fucking arthouse film or an avant garde neoclassical shoegaze album, it's a video game, I play them to have fun, if it's not fun it's shit end of story.

they don't, though. at least not necessarily.
Reggie in the vid is saying that because Nintendo's whole point as a video-game making company is to provide enjoyment.
Providing enjoyment is not the only value games can have.
But of course much like elitist pricks in the renaissance and neo-classical period saying art should always try to emulate the works of some goat fuckers that got conquered over a thousand years earlier, you're attempting to say that all videogames should follow the words of John Carmack (which he himself said were horseshit).
Grow a brain.

>There is in videogame
Who fucking cares? You're still talking about movie shit. Make a fucking movie if all that interests you are visual hints. Literally the only reason for something to be a game is if it fosters meaningful player agency and/or it has engaging gameplay. Spec Ops has neither. Ergo, it is shit.

Make the thread and I shall be there

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You know I really enjoyed this game, but not for all the shit people describe in this thread desu I never even noticed any of the shit people pointed out. I just liked blowing shit up and playing multiplayer after the campaign was over. And do people actually get upset over the ending or something?

>John Waters is terrible entertainment
braindead fags. Enjoy Captain Marvel guys!

youtube.com/watch?v=V2_EDbSiPAs

No, art would always exist whether it entertained someone or not. All that matters is intent put in by its creator, doesn't matter how shitty it is. Everything else is irrelevant even if it can make or break it for the masses. A drawing of a pipe is one of the most important pieces of post-modern art and is incredibly cutting edge when applied to currently existing social issues, but it is not entertaining in the slightest.

>It was a satire of the terrible cover based shooters that were dominating the market at the time.

So it's not bad because it's shit, it's bad because it's fucking dated and still not fun. Cool, thanks for calrifying.

>I never even noticed any of the shit people pointed out
Nice coping mechanism

You shouldn't feel guilty at all! You did literally nothing except watch Walker's madness unfold. At worst/best you should feel uncomfortable, that's it.

Are you referring to me highlighting the moral choices or the Walker's change of objectives?
If you meant to moral choices that the player makes, I don't know what to tell you man, moral choices are a pretty straight forward narrative and mechanical device to have players engaged in the game.

If you meant Walker's choice being just gameplay, you're missing the point, Walker's decision led to that gameplay, and that gameplay has Walker and his team killing America soldiers and civilians. Cause and effect.

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>only videogames that adhere to my standards are worthy, the rest is movie shit, fuck you!
Fucking lmao

Done

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It's your fault for being a brainlet that's just looking to play some bing bing wahoo "fun" bullshit. Video games are an art form and the talented folks over at Yager Development GmbH know this. Stay pleb

>he expected to have fun playing brown military shooter #4928475
Sounds like you're the only one at fault here user

Unironically dig him undercutting his boss like that.

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Dude, it's a video game. It has to be fun, because it's a fucking g a m e and you p l a y them.

Post modern art is not art its a money laundering scam

I did fuck up that middle bit but cheers

>Amazing that this game can still trigger brainlets and get 500+ responses, years after release

But what do you mean?

Literally the only thing you've said you've liked are things that have nothing to do with it being a game. Why the fuck are you so upset when this is pointed out to you?

>muh strawman

Fuck off retard

>it's not art because I say it's not
Alright

>You shouldn't feel guilty at all! You did literally nothing except watch Walker's madness unfold. At worst/best you should feel uncomfortable, that's it.
Oh well we're on the same page then

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I was a teenager and enjoyed that shit, sue me, I had fun at that age because I shot brown people and it had an epic twist, not for the reasons these fedora lords are praising it for.

Who are you quoting?

I hate how this game forces you to commit a war crime to advance the game and then chews you out like you had a second option.

>inb4 you could of stopped playing
and not get the content I paid for?

>visual elements and presentation have nothing to do with videogames
Are you serious right now? The only thing upsetting here is how persistent you've been in your utter fucking stupidity.

what strawman?

That was exactly the content you paid for. Killing people.

>u dont like muh shit movie???? that means u like le captain marvel haha!!!

This game is beloved by those taken by surprise and hated by those who were told in advance what the twist was (because that's all the game offered)
imho

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You shouldn't have bought it if you didn't want to commit war crimes

Demon's Souls

>No one can define art therefore everything is art
Alright