Boomers will deny this

Dragon's Reach, the Companions, the tavern, and maybe the two houses involved in that shitty prisoner quest are the only "content" in Whiterun by your shitty Ubisoft-addled definition.

RPGs are about exploring a world and not everyone in the world has a function with immediate utility for a person.

It's Skyrim kiddies and the other faux-RPG cucks from that generation that have ruined the genre by turning everything into some wannabe Diablo looter grindfest.

how many of those homes can you enter?
it's expected for a TES game that you can enter and interact with every place in the world

>how many of those homes can you enter?
still more than in pic related

You don't know even 1% as much about TES as Zaric.

More than 60%, which is impressive since it's console mainlined.

You don't need to enter them. Macro immersion > micro immersion.

This is the witcher 3 right?

I am still upset at how tiny Skyrim is compared to Morrowind. Oblivion was even a bigger sin because that map is fucking enormous compared to Vvardenfell yet was still smaller in-game.

Besides it's moving the goal post to say "you can't enter them". Notice how in the OP image you were talking about content and not buildings you can't enter.

OP is a shithead.

only poor taste boomers think Morrowind AKA Reading Simulator is the superior game.
Truly superrior boomers like me know Oblivion is superior

Attached: t.png (1499x842, 980K)

>how many of those homes can you enter?

You havent played the game, right? More than 15 in OPs pic in the starting zone.

Attached: 1526485262123.png (904x401, 646K)

keep on riding that shitty youtubers dick

How many homes can you enter irl? You're focusing on the wrong things

>Skyrim
>"AH welcome to my house want to fuck my wife?"
>Oblivion
>"Get out"
>Morrowind
>"reeeEEEEEEEEE"

>More than 60%
that's a lie

for a second I thought the pun was on Skingrad. was hoping for a overhaul of Oblivion towns.

if you're willing to break in, all of them

meanwhile

Attached: witcher3.jpg (1913x1076, 725K)

maybe you think so, but people playing the TES games disagree
if you can't pick up every individual apple in some random peasant's home then something is missing

it's not a matter of what is objectively superior, but simply what the fans of the series expect

You're wrong, Morrowind has the smaller map of all.
They make you walk really slow and fill that shit with fog so you don't see far and that's how they make you believe the map is big.

Bethesda puts out shitty games because of shit-eathers like you. Learn to be critical and maybe one day we'll get good games.

Attached: 1361734041804.png (879x665, 480K)

The Morrowind map is just wrong, though
>Leaves out three entire guild halls
>Leaves out multiple quest involved locations
>Leaves out unique items

Truly superior boomers know Gothic II is superior. Preferring Morrowind is a surefire sign someone's a stupid American.

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>people playing the TES games disagree
What are you talking about? Everyone unanimously agrees that the cities are pathetic in size. One easy way to fix this problem is to utilize macro immersion and add extra buildings just for size, like every other RPG does.

>The Oblivion is good meme

Attached: 1495834975870.gif (510x510, 690K)

>corner clubs
>guilds
>house where a guy got fucking shanked
>not content

Micro Immersion allows for more freedom in roleplaying

But W3 doesn't really care about that since you are already assuming the role of a premade character with their own story and motives,
there is no reason to enter every house as Geralt.

one is not necessarily better, just different

Pfft, good joke. Unless you're on something popular like reddit criticizing games, then you're just whining. You think Bethesda is reading your comments right now? Fucking moron LOL.

keep riding, he's almost there

Choose.

A) Micro immersion

Every house and building in the game can be entered and every location in the city can be visited.
But cities are considerably smaller and there are less of them even the biggest city is barely the size of real life villages.
Or the game just has one city that may be decently big but its the only settlement in the game.
Makes the place play like a real place but not look or feel like a real place.

B)Macro immersion

Game has several large cities and villages but you can only visit important places and houses inside of these. You often get views of these places that show just how big it actually is in the world often as big as it would be in real life despite not being able to visit all of it.
Makes the place look and feel like a real place but not play like a real place.

Attached: gh_bgcitymap.jpg (1024x765, 268K)

and to TES fans, that solution would be worse than the current situation
You don't seem to understand: it doesn't really matter what you think, what matters is what the playerbase wants.
There are plenty of games that do what you say, and you can play all of those instead if you want.

if you like the former play Skyrim, if you like the latter play TW3
pretty easy

The purpose is to create a consensus that their games need to be better.

LOL?

>the thieves guild is not content
>the morag tong is not content
>Killing the commona Tong for the Imperial is not content
>Investigating the murder is not content
>The fightersg uild quests are not content
>Talking to NPCs for information is not content

Whoever made this is a fucking retard Zoomer and should be gassed.

Some, but they're all the same home template.

>Micro Immersion allows for more freedom in roleplaying
In what way?

A, always A
I want a vidya gaem, not some shitty walking simulator

this

Everybody with a brain chooses more random houses and random NPCs that don't necessarily have a purpose. Nobody has ever complained about 99% of the RPGs out there that do this, because it's the right way to do it.

You don't visit a city in real life either and demand that you visit every single building, house and room in the city.

>TESfags SEETHING
Even Gothic had better "towns"

I want immersion, which means B is a no-brainer.

We won't get good A until there is artificial intelligence which can dump out so much content that it's no longer small in scale.

By letting you choose to go wherever you want? "My character would want to go into this person's home." Is the roleplay choice that breaks macro.

>can roleplay a thief sneaking into houses at night
>can roleplay a drunk and think every home is my own
>can roleplay a serial reorganizer, breaking into everyones homes just to move stuff around
>can roleplay as a person who wants a world where everything is accessible

a friendly reminder Skyrim is still topping sales charts 8 years after release
people have complained about cities where you can't do anything and if the game allows you to play as a thief or a murderer, the ability to enter random houses is content

sure YOU won't enter every random home if you come to a city, but YOU are not a burglar are you?

>and to TES fans
I'm a TES fan since Daggerfall and fully welcome making cities feel more alive.

>how many of those homes can you enter?
About 60-70% actually, though quite a few are copy-pasted and even less have any real gameplay relevance.
Still, it's kinda neat.

It's a joke, right?
A conversation starter - pathetic, but so damn bad nobody can actually take it seriously. I refuse to believe that OP was even for a second meant to be taken seriously.

Friendly reminder that there is a fix to the small city problem, and I just presented it.

Gothic > Gothic II

>no living quarters

where do the people who run the various shops and inns live?

It's good if you like wacky quests in the same tier as rockstar. If you hate world building and rpg mechanics, its a passable adventure game

It's based on Sweden

Just by looking at the Balmora Quest list

Attached: 1552168739451.jpg (1158x1244, 586K)

I've never had a problem choosing where I want to go in any real RPG. You're straw manning an argument that doesn't even exist.

>"My character would want to go into this person's home."
If there is a character in a RPG, then it's feasible that they also have a home. This applies to every single RPG.

>11 houses in the capital city but you can enter each because muh immeshun
>all of them copy pasted
bethtards will defend this

Soon

Attached: 1538099070533.png (1912x919, 1.91M)

In their inns and shops like proper medieval people do, obviously. The question you need to ask is where do all the people who don't run inns and shops live.

wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle

and a friendly reminder that your fix is not the fix the players of the game want
not every game has to cater to your tastes

>TESfags
The people in this thread are not TESfags, because if you defend Skyrim or any of its poor design decisions you are not a TESfag.

how many TES homes are actually worth entering?

I fucking hate all the fucking retards who grew up with open world shit in the post-Skyrim and Ubisoft era
>hurr durr let me just play the 20th game with a needlessly giant empty map that just has collectibles scattered throughout FUCK YEAH
Morrowind was just barely tolerable with the amount of content it had for its size. I wish every open world game was designed by Piranha Bytes

It's not about "my tastes" vs "your tastes." It's a how to make a city not feel small. Every other RPG out there has fixed this problem because they realized that you simply can't make every house and NPC completely unique in a city-sized place.

I posted daggerfall not the space inside your head

>>can roleplay as a person who wants a world where everything is accessible

>can roleplay as a person who wants to go into everyone's house and have them not care like automatons.

The problem with designing around solely points of interest is it does not really give the area any soul.

Based Daggerfall.

youtube.com/watch?v=46gaz6veVNQ

Todd's favorite game in the series is Morrowind though

and I'm telling you that the fans of skyrim DO NOT WANT TO DO IT LIKE EVERY OTHER RPG
how hard is this to get for you?

I have no desire to enter buildings with nothing to do in them in a single player game, so why would I ever want A when B is just A but with more background material.

>actual content
Like 2 houses in all of Whiterun have "actual content". Being able to enter the building doesn't mean shit. If anything I would prefer they don't make interiors to every single building, but the ones you can enter actually have shit to do in them.

Yea Forums will be a believer soon enough

Attached: DFunity.png (1360x768, 1.5M)

And now Skyrim is as wide as a puddle and as deep as a puddle.

The point isn't actually about Morrowind being small. In fact it's the exact opposite, so you deserve some kind of fucking aware for missing OP's "point" this fucking hard.
The point is that Morrowind has more content, but less of it directly relevant to the gameplay. Quite a few houses aren't actually used in any particular quest line, and in fact you can play most of the game without ever having to visit them. Meanwhile, in Skyrim, there are less houses, but every single one of them exists for the purpose of being involved in some kind of quest or storyline.

Though obviously OP is straight up lying, because he ignores shops which are simply relevant by themselves, ignoring numerous quest-giving houses including thief's guild, Morag Tongue hideout, some faction quest even and so on.
Still, his point is actually banking on the notion that Morrowind is bloated design, while Skyrim is being used as an example of the OPPOSITE of of this "ubisoft-era" approach to world design.

You are also a moron for other reasons.

If you want a real city, go play GTA or something. It's ridiculous to expect that an RPG has 500 buildings and a billion quests.

I couldn't give a fuck about your opinion, retard. I said nothing about pure size mattering, it's the ratio of size to content
Go fuck yourself

There's content in the hold and the companions house that's it.

Attached: Skyrim - Original vs Special Edition.jpg (1912x2144, 1.36M)

>B)Macro immersion

Thief and Thief 2 did this very well.

>that first time entering whiterun
kino

Wow. Aside from being an idiot, you are also arrogant and abusive idiot. Congratulations. You deserve to be fucking drowned like a puppy.

Some people like big cities with just window dressing NPCs.
GTA/Saints Row type worlds have their own charm.

how the fuck are those textures so fucking big and they STILL look like shit? it's the same shit with fo4 having 14 gigs of textures that look like muddy shit and somehow fuck up your framerate.

The irony

>the Companions Questline
>content
wew

Attached: 1551539892040.gif (291x300, 2.92M)

>Everyone unanimously agrees
I have never cared. I've never seen or heard anyone bring it up until Yea Forums.

I don't think you even know what that word means, twat.

Guess I'm a faggot then because while the game itself sucks I felt the last remnant had believable massive cities I could feel immersed in because you couldn't walk into every corner or enter every house.
It has bothered me since the SNES era where many RPGs touted massive kingdoms and political power but the cities had like 6 buildings.
Zozo was believable as a city in 6, for example

people think they want giant, lifelike cities

they really don't.

it's boring.

I'll spell it out for you, why not
Wow. Aside from being an idiot, you are also arrogant and abusive idiot.

Nobody cares what Skyrimtoddlers think because every time a new TES comes out the current fans outnumber the old fans, which means that Bethesda can do pretty much anything they want.

As a matter of, Redfall with macro immersion would have the backing of new fans and Arena/Daggerfall fans, leaving the retarded toddlers who only played Skyrim behind.

>implying all those skyrim houses have actual content
True image would look horrible for skyrim

Absolutely patrician taste

Dude, maybe next time make sure you even grasp what people are talking about before vomiting bullshit that proves how you understood absolutely nothing about the subject. That way, people wan't call you a moron if you don't act like one.

>Skyrim
>actual content

Attached: 1538465908351.gif (720x800, 127K)

> REEEE I don't like things you like.
Sucks to be you.

Action games for 8 year olds.

>any post made in a thread is a direct rebuttal to OP
Okay, friend

What do you think the chances are of gunpowder ever entering the Elder Scrolls universe? Not only would it open up a new skill(s), they could even more easily reuse Fallout assets

>Skyrim
>content

Attached: 1522335825618.jpg (240x250, 6K)

I like how you didnt even circle the cornerclub in that picture, you know, where you join the thieves guild

imagine being so self-absorbed you can't handle 10% of the games not catering to your tastes
imagine demanding games that you won't buy also cater to your tastes

imagine being as bad as the most hardcore of SJW's

No, but it should have some form of relevance. And you are actually complaining about skyrim design - not only the opposite of what OP is trying to illustrate, but also the opposite of truth. So... yeah, you are STILL fucking embarrasement to your species.

First one to deny that morrowind's combat was fucking trash gets the "eternal faggot boomer" stamp

>the opposite of truth.
Thanks for proving my point about retards who think Skyrim is full of content

I’d bet OP didn’t even play Morrowind

This guy is right. Small cities usually fuck with all of the lore behind them boasting how prosperous or influential they are. You walk in and there’s 6 houses and one audience hall in it. It feels really off putting. Also there’s the approach of splitting the city into multiple smaller areas and just render the rest of the city as background. That one city in Dragon Age 2 comes to mind. In fact, the majority of Bioware RPGs do it

Every single game Bethesda ever put out generated more new fans than there were old fans. Same thing will be true for Redfall after 14-15 years since Skyrim. You can't stop this with any muh moral high ground arguments about "Skyrim fans."

>That one city in Dragon Age 2 comes to mind
Why would that come to mind instead of Denerim in DA:O you 14 year old

There are Bethesdrones so well programmed that they defend teeny tiny cities as a bold and unique design choice rather than a mix of laziness and technical limitations.

Attached: 1548193409027.jpg (458x452, 49K)

>Thanks for proving my point about retards who think Skyrim is full of content
Skyrim's content is shit, but it sure as fuck is very dense. If you deny that, I can't even begin to fanthom the seer amount of oxygen you have been deprived of at birth. You can't go five meters without tripping over shit. There is not a single house in the game that is not used - and reused - in a quest. Like Fallout 3 it's designed very specifically with two ideas in mind: cutting down ANY cost that are not absolutely necessary, and specifically being designed with ADD players in mind.

It's shit, but it's also incredibly fucking dense shit. Fuck, go read "Cartography in Potatoland" by Dan Vávra, he wrote a very detailed article analyzing Skyrim's over-dense content distribution in depth.
If you aren't aware of this shit, then... really, may god have fucking mercy on your soul.

>more interiors=khantent

Are zoomers this retarded?

his favorite is redguard.
Unironically

I get that I'm speaking to a very small minority here but if anyone as the xbone x and an old 60 oblivion disc lying around it will do backwards compatible magic and make the graphics the shiniest version of shit physically possible, i'm replaying it now thanks to it

There's a whole bunch of content that isn't circled. None of the shops are, and there's a bunch of buildings you have to go to for quests, like the one in the bottom right where you kill the Orc living there for the Fighter's guild or the corner club where you kick some guy's ass for talking shit on Redoran.

what city do you live in man? which city has 30 houses

>You can't go five meters without tripping over shit
Sure, if "shit" is "another bear"
>There is not a single house in the game that is not used
Yep and there sure are houses every five meters!

I won't say that it is good but it doesn't bother me

Attached: Morrowind.webm (1400x1048, 2.99M)

who is this mysterious playerbase you keep referring to? Is it you? Is it r/elderscrolls? You and a couple of your friends?

Honestly I’ve never really managed to finish any of the three DA games.

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I'd be interesting to see how it compares to modded Morrowind on PC, which looks pretty decent.

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it's only bad in the early game, once you level up your chosen combat style a bit you miss so rarely that it doesn't even matter

wow did No Man's Sky get an update

It's not that big in the final game senpai. Stop posting false advertisement lmao

Attached: 1551727644120.gif (1280x714, 1.09M)

Are you this retarded?

I'm starting to realize, given how you are like fifth fucking idiot to make the same painful mistake:
You people never played, nor even seen Morrowind in action, have you? And you did not think of even briefly double-checking or asking about it, have you?

How are you people alive being this stupid?

>Sure, if "shit" is "another bear"
No, shit means "another quest-related stuff, dead bodies arranged in some funny fashion, letter painfully explaining why the bodies are arranged in such a way, and dozens of really cringeworthy attempts at environmental storytelling.

Did you even play the game?

>Yep and there sure are houses every five meters!
Is this what you are going with? Is this how fucking far you are going to move your goal posts? God damn.

>Also there’s the approach of splitting the city into multiple smaller areas and just render the rest of the city as background.
The funny thing is that in Oblivion/Skyrim the cities are in fact loaded in as a separate level, so it's only an illusion that you are not in a separate section from the world map.

Based daggerfall unity soon poster dabbing on Morrowfags and Skybabs

holy shit

>Are you this retarded?

>I'm starting to realize, given how you are like fifth fucking idiot to make the same painful mistake:
>You people never played, nor even seen Morrowind in action, have you? And you did not think of even briefly double-checking or asking about it, have you?

>How are you people alive being this stupid?

More than 50 words and not a single argument to be found

In Morrowind NPCs will stare blankly at you if you barge into their home, you can even get away with killing them

>Skyrim's over-dense content distribution in depth.
Which is why the first thing Zaric does in his if Skyrim was good video is triple the world size.

Go play any Piranha Bytes game, preferrably Gothic 2 or Risen 1

big oof

I don't understand why people insist that cities need to be big, look at fucking Daggerfall, the cities are fucking massive but there's nothing to do and it's a pain to walk through them

>More than 50 words and not a single argument to be found
OP's post shows MORROWIND HAS MORE INTERIORS.
And you clearly do not know that in Morrowind, every house can be entered, you cretin. How do you not know this yet STILL POST YOUR GARABAGE, CLEARLY NOT EVEN RUDIMENTARY INFORMED OPINIONS.

OP's point - obvious to anyone who has at least seen five minutes of Morrowind's footage, is that
NUMBER OF INTERIORS =/= CONTENT. Literally the exact opposite of what you though he is saying.
Again: Are you this retarded? Did you seriously not think that knowing the games in question isn't actually required to post an opinion or even understand OP's point?!

How. Are. You. ALIVE?!

In TES games your meant to have the ability to interact with everything and go inside every building.
In the witcher novigrad is more of a set piece. I mean, it makes more sense than skyrims micro villages.

Fuck me, this old ass bait still works??

Attached: bait.png (500x294, 12K)

I played every single one of them. They are fine, though have their own set of flaws. They are also absolutely irrelevant to this debate. To you missing OP's point, and being factually wrong.

I was just kidding m8,no need to get so upset

Sure you were, you fucking piece of garbage. Sure you were.
At least fucking own up to your own stupidty, for fuck sake. Save at least that little fragment of dignity for fuck sake.

I really like RPGs but I could never get into Morrowind for some reason.
At first I thought I was just too used to newer graphics/mechanics, but I was able to enjoy Planescape:Torment and Baldur's Gate, so I don't know.
It feels very restrictive despite having an open world. Like it has a variety of difficulty but instead of pacing it in any meaningful way it's just randomly thrown around the map.
That's fine in small portions, but at some point I end up with like 5 quests in my journal that I am incredibly underleveled for and I have to just keep picking up new ones hoping to get one suitable for me.
It makes it hard to get invested in any one quest.

Attached: toddinart.png (590x815, 27K)

He tried to move the goal post when somebody posted Novigrad. See: Constant excuses for Skyrim.

i like the way deus ex did it. a smaller zone in terms of total square footage but extremely dense. verticality, swiss cheese design, multiple paths everywhere, secret underground labs that you didn't even know existed, elevator shafts leading to abandoned floors with prostitute druggies hanging out, just random shit everywhere. plenty of houses/shops to break in to, but still having lots of locked doors and blocked off alleyways to make it feel like the world is bigger than the play area. modelled buildings off in the distance etc

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>though have their own set of flaws
And none of those flaws are in their execution of open world, which makes them better than any modern open world AAA shit
>To you missing OP's point
>any post made in a thread is a direct rebuttal to OP
Okay, friend

oh i forgot i should also mention the nu-hitman games, excellent level design, massive amounts of detail and again, swiss cheese design, multiple paths, verticality.

>And none of those flaws are in their execution of open world
Actually, a lot of them are, but none of them are relevant to this particular thread. I don't care that you are one of those pathetic dipshits who thinks liking Gothic makes them better than other people. Go belch your insecurity somewhere else.

>any post made in a thread is a direct rebuttal to OP
We have been through this, you cretin. Either your post was completely irrelevant to this thread, or you are pulling shit out of your ass. And the second option is more likely, because you did actually complain about Skyrim as an example of too thin content distribution, when it's actually a poster-child for TOO DENSE content distribution. Which still makes you a drooling fucking mongoloid.

was a real pain getting this on here but just keep in mind its vanilla oblivion from a 360 disc

Attached: anvil.jpg (1652x929, 110K)

>when it's actually a poster-child for TOO DENSE content distribution
>a corpse lying around is content

Huh, that does look pretty decent. Makes me want to redownload it and see what vanilla Oblivion looks like at max settings on a modern PC.

nice

Attached: 1523041386114.jpg (360x360, 55K)

Yup.

Unity sucks but if it can give us this then goddamn.

Quick, what should I do?
Play Risen or try playing Morrowind for the third time?

Morrowind

Risen has hours of fetch quests that make the ones in witcher games seem like a good threesome.

>witcher games
>fetch quests
Oh right, I forgot you shitposters pretend the W1 monster hunting quests of "bring me 5 monster parts that you will get by just going through the area once anyway" are horrible

can make it look like that with mods tho

Not horrible, but unwelcome at times.
Whereas the ones in Risen are a complete slog. In big part because the story is boring as fuck for the first like, five hours of the game.

No you can't. Some of the buildings and assets/details are literally not in the game anymore.

Gothic

The problem with TES is that they're designed so you can be whoever you want and do whatever you want, and if you want to be a thief you MUST make every house accesabel or the illusion shatters

use your imagination. you come up to a door that you can't open.

scenario 1- it's a video game, not enough dev time to fill out each building, etc

scenario 2- that's a shitty slum building known to have nothing but skooma addicts and rags, no point going in there, nothing good to steal

Gothic doesn't run on my windows botnet machine, plus the one time I played it the controls were completely ass even after customizing them.

It's fine to jump into Gothic 2

The one thing I will say about Balmora (and Morrowind cities as a whole) is that the engine makes it feel empty.

That being said, Balmora has dark alleys where sketchy dreamers and mercs wander into, a multi-level shopping district with distinct shops (which, by the way, has interior design that reflects products sold), a temple area that is clean and minimalist, and taverns that are open and welcoming or claustrophobic and seedy. The primary living district feels like homes clumped together to reflect the fact it is a city.

Also, you don't need to walk through a loading screen to enter the town. You can just walk into Balmora (you know, like a typical city).

>Also, you don't need to walk through a loading screen to enter the town. You can just walk into Balmora (you know, like a typical city).
You can thank the PS3/360 for that change

Attached: Morrowind Taffers.webm (853x480, 2.72M)

Maybe I'll try it out then.
I usually don't like playing games out of order, especially RPGs, but it seems like I won't be able to play Gothic 1 any time soon anyway.

nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/23746

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Are you sure the GOG version won't run on your machine? And the controls just take some getting used to. They're fine, they're just not what has been established as standard by now

You can always watch the first game's cutscenes on YouTube, better than just jumping straight into II

Not just boomers but literally anyone who played the games will "deny" it since it's obviously wrong and lying.

Don't elder scroll titles usually have multiple "cities" in game? If so you honestly can't expect each city to be massive with dozens of buildings you could enter. Even witcher 3 which I see people like to compare to only has 1 actual size city.

Attached: 4ymp3.jpg (150x150, 5K)

>all these houses have an NPC with 2 lines and one quest tied to some dungeon.

>get item or note

>literally nothing happens

when it came out this was okay I guess.
Didn't age well

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>OP's point
OP's only point is to be full of shit and post bait. You're the only one who missed his point, either intentionally because you are OP or unintentionally because you aren't familiar enough with the cities in his pic to see how wrong it is.

yeah, skyrim has some larger cities that are closer in scale to tw3
iirc solitude, probably the biggest, even has a couple unenterable homes like tw3