> Smash Brawl
Wow! I can call Isaac, Little Mac, Shadow AND Waluigi to help me out in battle?! THAT'S AMAZING!
> Smash Ultimate
REEEE FUCK YOU HACKURAI! IT WAS HIS/HER TURN! YOU PUT THIS LITERAL WHO IN BUT NOT MY CHARACTER?
Seriously, what the fuck happened with the Smash fanbase?
maybe because literally only one of the characters in that image actually ended up getting in
mostly because the characters people like always get turned into assists, with the exception being K. Rool and Mac (who had to be upgraded), in favor of fire emblem characters and other characters sakurai wants that nobody else does.
Autism
Imagine being mad about a character that was never going to be playable
>the director shouldn't be able to do nice things for himself
Do you want a world where fucking Decidueye got in over Incineroar? Because that's a shit world.
That sounds pretty based
Brawl didn’t have DLC.
>the director should be the only one considered when adding characters 95% of the time
nigga...
I'd also rather NEITHER of those two Pokemon got in. Someone like Buzzwole, necrozma, or tapu koko would be much, much better.
Not Sakurai's fault that the other AT characters games flopped, Punch-Out Wii was a sucess.
is that little mac? he was an assist trophy?
let me make an analogy.
at first when you get a 2nd place, you are very happy you made it through. But some people might get mad with getting a 2nd place because they think they were so close to getting 1st place.
So imagine being an AT is that 2nd place and being a playable fighter is the 1st place.
>Brawl
Roster is half the size of Ultimate, still has a fair amount of additions to make: Seeing the likes of actually important characters like Olimar, Wario or Dedede in the cast is expected & reasonable over a character who's last game at the time was a SNES game, a side character from a 3rd party in the game that introduced 3rd parties, and a character made for the one that was just added into the roster, but never ( to this day still ) has been significant.
You think if Waluigi or Ashley weren't assists they would've been dlc characters? Or now that Saki or Jill aren't assists it means they'll be dlc?
Having an assist or not doesn't mean your favorite character was ever considered to be playable.
The assists then were a nice extra for the tight deadlines for Brawl. Starting with Smash Four, a lot of fan favorites that people were asking for became assists and the commentary with each reveal was condescending or poking fun of them. Smash Four in general seemed like an obligation, or more of an obligation. It doesn't help that only one character then got upgraded vs. say, three or so and Nintendo trying to use Smash to promote their games. Compare Rosalina, Lucina and Villager to Isaac, Goroh and Ray-01. Personally, I think Sakurai's comments on relevancy are based on his own tastes. Not surprisingly, most of the Smash fandom doesn't actually play the games Smash references.
Olimar getting in over Isaac is still bullshit considering Golden Sun was more popular in the West. He literally only got in because Miyamoto made Pikmin.
I imagine it feels tantalizing to the people here because the Assist Trophy line up is honestly cool as shit
>Alucard
>Zero
>Bomberman
>Waluigi
>Knuckles
>Shadow
>Lyn
It's cute when it's characters no one imagined playable like kawashima and pikmin-bird but the ones above would be easily adaptable as excellent fighters
Lyn's garbage though. Now Joshua, that's PEAK myrmidon.
>Golden Sun 1 outsold Mother 1,2,3 combined
I guess that's fair, since Golden Sun moved a bit more units than the first 2 Pikmin games.
Yes, and he looked like trash.
This is the first time Little Mac is shown in 3D right?
Part of the change in perspective might be that more characters fit for a fighter slot are being given the Assist Trophy role to feature them as much as possible. Lots of the new Assists from Ultimate especially really seem like popular characters that just couldn't make the playable cut in a tight roster newcomer-wise.
Fight Night Round 2 has a 3D model of SNES Mac, an awful one at that, but its still there.
> In the West
There is your problem, Pikmin was much more popular in Japan and this was before Sakurai catered to the Westernes in terms of roster picks. The soundtrack of the game even outsold the first game.
I think you're forgetting that Assist Trophies were a new thing at the time.
Most of these models have aged like shit
Still waiting on Saki
Based
>Looked happy there or at least a little loosened up
>Smash Four has him scowling constantly
the idea that smash makes series more popular is a myth pushed by rosterfags who just want their obscure literal-who characters in.
smash didn't save fire emblem. even after all the shilling in melee and brawl, the fire emblem series almost got cancelled due to low sales. what turned it around was selling out to waifufags and gacha whales, which had nothing to do with smash.
smash didn't save mother/earthbound. the rise of emulation and the internet would have made it more popular with or without smash. nintendo has still never bothered to give mother 3 an official release outside of japan, nor have they ever made another game in the series since then.
smash hasn't done shit to revive f-zero, ice climber, gyromite, game & watch, or duck hunt. the only exception to the rule is kid icarus, and it's only because sakurai himself wanted to make a kid icarus game.
people need to realize that smash is a commercial product, not a charity for forgotten series, and that rosterfags are a minority of the player base. being acknowledged with an assist trophy is better than nothing.
Ashley got robbed
>the idea that smash makes series more popular is a myth pushed by rosterfags who just want their obscure literal-who characters in.
Sakurai has stated that the inclusion of Fire Emblem characters are entirely strategic and MOTHER would like a word with you too.
>smash didn't save fire emblem. even after all the shilling in melee and brawl, the fire emblem series almost got cancelled due to low sales. what turned it around was selling out to waifufags and gacha whales, which had nothing to do with smash.
Yet Smash is why FEW is a thing and also why Chrom got in.
>smash didn't save mother/earthbound. the rise of emulation and the internet would have made it more popular with or without smash. nintendo has still never bothered to give mother 3 an official release outside of japan, nor have they ever made another game in the series since then.
Mother 3 was screwed even if Smash didn't have a hand in it, and Mother 3 was stated to the be conclusion to the MOTHER series anyway.
>smash hasn't done shit to revive f-zero, ice climber, gyromite, game & watch, or duck hunt
Because Smash isn't trying to push those IP's like it did with Fire Emblem, and most of those titles were one-offs anyway. F-Zero still got games after Melee and was still strong on the radar with Brawl.
>people need to realize that smash is a commercial product, not a charity
Which is funny considering how people attack others for calling it that, saying they should be thankful for getting a game or like in you same post with
>being acknowledged with an assist trophy is better than nothing.
Sit the fuck down, Smash is a product and I want it to improve as one.
Yes? Incelroar is bottom 5 Pokémon design, while owl is at least in the top 400
How did Shill Dog managed to be in before any of them?
>YOU PUT THIS LITERAL WHO IN BUT NOT MY CHARACTER?
This but with assist trophies. Why say everyone is here and then remove assist trophies
>Sakurai has stated that the inclusion of Fire Emblem characters are entirely strategic
"strategic" is a code word for nintendo making him promote fire emblem so they can keep selling $70 anime pngs to gacha whales.
notice how the number of fire emblem characters in smash didn't start getting out-of-control until AFTER they sold out to waifufags on their own time. smash itself wasn't enough to save fire emblem from the brink of cancellation, they had to start pandering to the lowest common denominator in their own games for sales.
>Mother 3 was screwed even if Smash didn't have a hand in it
why was it "screwed" if smash makes series popular? wouldn't there have been enough demand for nintendo to localize mother 3 since ness got into smash?
>F-Zero still got games after Melee and was still strong on the radar with Brawl.
f-zero hasn't had a game since 2004. it was already a dead franchise by the time brawl came out. gee, it's almost like the entire industry doesn't revolve around the smash roster.
>Sit the fuck down, Smash is a product and I want it to improve as one.
no you don't, you just want certain characters on the roster. smash as an overall product is already great. it's in much better shape quality-wise than many other nintendo series - look no further than the current state of pokemon, paper mario and star fox. rosterfags need to learn how to separate the quality of the actual game from whether or not their literal whos are on the roster.
>smash didn't save fire emblem. even after all the shilling in melee and brawl, the fire emblem series almost got cancelled due to low sales. what turned it around was selling out to waifufags and gacha whales, which had nothing to do with smash.
That is a blalant lie.
Mosty of Awakening's advertisement was centered about "Marth". They were cashing in hard on the Smash popularity.
On top of that Awakening released right in the middle of a game drought it was the first big release after Kingdom Heatrs 3D and it got more advertisment than every other game on the franchise.
Waifufagging and Gacha shit came much later after Smash 4.
>"strategic" is a code word for nintendo making him promote fire emblem so they can keep selling $70 anime pngs to gacha whales.
Which is what I stated, strategic. You're just saying what I said in a longer ramble.
>why was it "screwed" if smash makes series popular?
It wasn't going to get localized with the DS being the hot item. Even in Japan it didn't sell gangbusters. The west was never getting Mother 3. Smash only made the demand for M3 higher, not make the chances for a localization higher.
>f-zero hasn't had a game since 2004. it was already a dead franchise by the time brawl came out
Is that why people were asking for an F-Zero Wii? The last Star Fox title was 2006, but people were anticipating Star Fox Wii. It goes to the Mother 3 argument somewhat, I admit.
>no you don't, you just want certain characters on the roster
That's only one part of what I want to improve. I want more than one person making choices with the roster, the stages, the gameplay and so on and I want a balance of material being distributed along with some delegation among the task of making this $60+ product. And for what it's worth, you're proving that screencap right using literal who's as a statement. And no shit people care about the roster. Smash didn't have amazing gameplay, it was all about the characters. Why is liking characters in a massive crossover game now a problem?
Post things you would like to see become assists.
>tries to slice up anyone near him while his original 8-bit theme plays
>Reapettes fly around and damage people
Hold up
Is that the fucking Reaper from Kid Icarus? What the fuck have they done with him, he looks like shit now
I get Sakurai's line of thinking when it comes to assist trophies and how are they can viewed as consolation prizes. And to some extent I agree, because while seeing the likes of SK and especially Bomberman relegated to an NPC role stung a bit, it was still kind of cool to see them. I think Assist Trophies should be reserved for iconic characters that aren't worth creating fleshed out movesets for (Pac-Man Ghosts, Metroid, Majora's Moon), characters from series that already fleshed out enough in the character department and the real obscure ones like Vince and Sheriff. Like, I don't think literal whos like Isaac and Takamaru should necessarily be in Smash, pigeonholing into the role "this you character really like can be in smash, but they're unplayable, show up for 20 seconds, and you don't even know when they will show up"
I still think there is a lot of fun you can have with assist trophies. but you just have to pick your characters right. Seeing Guile sit in corner FLASH KICK and SONIC BOOM is fucking hysterical. I wish more were like him, he's a popular character no one really wanted in Smash but he was implemented well. I also think more ATs should have taken the Rathalos route and double as bosses. How the fuck are Mother Brain and Dr. Wily not perfect classic mode boss battles for Mega Man and Samus?
>Defending Sakurai when Assisit trophies were always a slap in the face
Retard
> Isaac
> Literal who
Fuck off
>Which is what I stated, strategic. You're just saying what I said in a longer ramble.
my point is that this "strategy" was a response to fire emblem making changes on their own to become more popular, not the result of smash making the series more popular.
if it was all because of smash, the series wouldn't still have almost been cancelled after melee and brawl.
>It wasn't going to get localized with the DS being the hot item.
nintendo had no problem releasing pmd red rescue team and polarium advance in the west that same year, despite the fact that the ds was selling so well. the ds was also backwards compatible with the gba anyway, so it wouldn't have been an issue.
>Is that why people were asking for an F-Zero Wii?
people have been asking for a new f-zero game since the last one, and it's still been a dead franchise since 2004. smash didn't stop the franchise from dying, nor has it helped revive the franchise.
>I want more than one person making choices with the roster
this is already the case. for example, corrin only got into smash because other people on the development staff wanted them.
>Smash didn't have amazing gameplay
false. just because brawl and smash 4 sucked doesn't cancel out how fun the rest of the series is.
>Why is liking characters in a massive crossover game now a problem?
because it's reached the point where people think le epic character reveal trailers matter more than the gameplay and feel personally insulted by sakurai when their literal who doesn't get in.
If you don't think the Pikmin series deserves to have one character, it's main character in smash than I don't know what's wrong with you. If we had Louie as his own character and Alph was upgraded to an echo than maybe you could complain, but us pikminbros have some fantastic games that have stood the test of time and more on the way, and there's only one Pikmin character in smash. I think its probably the most deserving franchise already represented in smash to get another character. Especially when Mother has two. Pikmin is not on the level of F-Zero.
I think the reason Isaac isn't in the game is because Sakurai thinks he can represent the character better as an AT. Think about it, the shit Isaac does when you summon him in smash is stuff he could not do if he was a playable character. You couldn't give a playable character those tools.
Of course nothing is set in stone, Little Mac and Dark Samus don't have the same shit they had when they were assist trophies, so Isaac wouldn't HAVE to have the same attacks, but maybe sakurai just feels like he's really happy with the way Isaac functions and he doesn't want to compromise that by making him playable and taking away his giant pushy hands or changing them in some major way.
>nintendo had no problem releasing pmd red rescue team
Pokemon rivals Mario in sales, nay exceeds it.
>people have been asking for a new f-zero game since the last one, and it's still been a dead franchise since 2004
Is that why people are still asking for a new title? If it were really dead, no one would want ask for a new title.
>this is already the case. for example, corrin only got into smash because other people on the development staff wanted them.
You forgot to mention Corrin also ties in with the strategic plan with Fire Emblem.
>false. just because brawl and smash 4 sucked doesn't cancel out how fun the rest of the series is.
Note that I said amazing. Maybe I should have reworded that. Smash isn't complex or deep. That doesn't make it not fun, it just means it's not complex. Complex gameplay can be fun too.
>because it's reached the point where people think le epic character reveal trailers matter more than the gameplay
Said no one in this thread at least. You gonna tell me this isn't a major victory for K. Rool fans?
>Little Mac and Dark Samus don't have the same shit they had when they were assist trophies,
Little Mac kind of does. His forward tilt is directly based on the one-two combo his assist trophy self had in Brawl, and the uppercut move had is represented in the form of the KO Punch and Rising uppercut.
>Isaac
>not a literal who
The last 18 years would like a word with you.
I've never played Golden Sun so the games could be fantastic for all I know but I'm just going to jump in and say I'm 25, I've played video games my entire life, I've owned every Gameboy model and I've been on this website for like eight years and I can't even remember anyone mentioning Isaac or golden sun for any reason other than smash Bros.
Actually wait, once I remember seeing a thread talking about which is the best little equipable magic pet guy in Golden sun. But yeah, one time.
If your most-wanted is some nobody piece of shit like Isaac you deserve to be upset.
>Pokemon rivals Mario in sales, nay exceeds it.
just looking at games alone, mario sells a lot more than pokemon. merchandise is where pokemon makes most of its money.
also, pokemon spinoffs (like mystery dungeon) never sold all that great, which is why they've stopped making them.
>Is that why people are still asking for a new title?
people are still asking for a new title because there hasn't been one since 2004. the original f-zero was a launch title for the snes and one of the best-selling games on the system, it's not a surprise that it still has a core fanbase that grew up with it and wants more.
>Said no one in this thread at least.
your exact words were "smash didn't have amazing gameplay, it was all about the characters."
Being an assist trophy isn’t really anything notable now that we’ve had them for a while (Maybe if it’s your first entry as one, then I could see someone being satisfied). It also diminishes that “at least they’re here” sentiment when a character is constantly reappearing as just that, and it’s not like you’ll constantly even see the character you want to see as there are a plethora of characters, enemies, misc. in this group and there’s no “assist system” to choose the AT you’d like on your side and I can see why given that some ATs are just flat out ridiculous as far as balancing goes. Their initial “luster” is gone, a lot of people see it in a negative light. You can see this when people call it “snow globe hell” and actually hope to see characters appear as assist trophies with chances dashed in the “disconfirmed” pile then proceeding with “le salt” garbage. However, I personally don’t see it as a “slap in the face”.
I just want Jill back
>just looking at games alone, mario sells a lot more than pokemon. merchandise is where pokemon makes most of its money.
Which includes the games.
>pokemon spinoffs (like mystery dungeon) never sold all that great, which is why they've stopped making them.
I guess Detective Pikachu, Pokken and Pokemon Quest don't exist.
>"smash didn't have amazing gameplay, it was all about the characters."
Yes. The characters. Not the trailers, but the original concept. People brought Smash because you could fight Pikachu and Mario and DK and Link. Even in 64 you had Fox, Falcon and Ness and expanded further with IC, Peach, Marth and G&W. Are you surprised people want to see Isaac, Stafy, Ray-01 and other Nintendo characters to show up in the Nintendo crossover? The trailers are there to promote the characters. Smash NEVER had deep gameplay, I repeat that I could have reworded that better, but knowing you, you'll ignore it to keep rambling on. Not having deep gameplay doesn't make it not fun or means that it isn't fun. Smash as a fighting game is simplistic compared to other fighters.
Who?
I don't get why some of the ATs got dropped. Ultimate definitely has the best collection of ATs, but I miss the 2D guys like Excitebikers and Lakitu. Why get rid of Kat & Anna?
Unironically DLC.
In Brawl, once the game was released that was it. So AT didn't get much scorn because there was no other way for them to get in.
Smash 4 and Ultimate however have DLC,so having your character as an assist means having them locked off from DLC.
Honestly, the DLC thing stings a little less when you realize that DLC seems to be mostly reserved for veterans (in Smash 4's case), big name third party characters and maybe some promotional first party characters from new Nintendo games.
The Fighter Pass lineup already has two third party characters ("Brave" is presumably a DQ rep), so at this point we'd be lucky to get even one first party Nintendo character.
You're assuming the outrage over AT's is mostly logical, while in reality it's 80% emotional.
That better not be true, because that makes it worse. It implies that the only reasonable chance for first-parties is through the base game and that the DLC is a scam.
I like how the only one who became playable is the one who is the most literal who in Japan.
>and that the DLC is a scam.
Because the characters you wanted weren't selected? This whole "if my favorite wasn't an at then it's being reserved for dlc" mentality is nothing but pure delusion.
Third Parties bring more hype than 1st party.