Super Smash Bros. Melee

Time, along with an overreliance on Top players and glorification of them in such an extent that the scene falls apart without them, due to an excessively high amount of e-celeb dicksuckers who don't play.

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>jigglypuff
I don't really follow Smash. How did Jigglypuff kill Melee?

Its moreso that Hbox, the now practically uncontested #1 player in Melee, uses Jigglypuff, and Jigglypuff is a defensive, neutral heavy character. Most if not all her matchups are slow. Seeing what's kind of the antithesis of why anyone would stick to Melee made some people give up, and there's little opposition that can match Hbox's Puff.

Niggers and Mexicans probably

CRTS and the meta moving towards Jigglypuff. The top players are getting burnt out, fast. Some are jumping ship to Ultimate and Mr. Wiz has used this as an excuse to drop Melee because he's sick of having to buy a hundred CRTs for a game that regularly falls behind schedule and doesn't have a company paying for its inclusion.

Melee has a ton of majors anyway so losing EVO isn't a death sentence, but sooner or later Nintendo is going to have to port the game to a newer console if the competitive scene is to survive.

The antithesis of Melee. You can't combo Jiggly, you can't edgeguard Jiggly, there's no top tier fighter easier to play than Jiggly, no one stalls better than Jiggly. On top of all that, it has Rest, a move that can K.O. you at 0%.

It's lightweight, which you'd think makes it easier to K.O., but in reality it getting launched further means you can't combo it to reliably gain percentage. It's horizontal recovery is the best in the game bar none, vertically it's pretty great too. Jumping off the stage to edgeguard is putting yourself at risk more than anything. To top it all off, the aforementioned best player, Hbox, is insufferable. Very few people in the community like him. People are just sick and tired of seeing Jigglypuff in Grand Finals W.

this and the fans' insistance on crt tv's

To be honest it's really not that great, I tried playing it the other day out of curiosity, and found it pretty underwhelming. There's only like 4 viable characters and the controls are clunky af.

It's a pretty neat party game, and was probably fun at the time, but it's pretty awful as a competitive fighting game.

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CRTVs, the weird 1 in a million GC controller glitch, and an inability to be patched(buffing other characters)

That's because you're bad at it.

>I played it for a couple hours, it sucks. The only strong character is bowser wtf

Why can't you play better games
Yea Forumsreddit ?

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>Spacies spend years being oppressive in the meta to the point of memehood
>Just play around it, bro!
>Jiggs becomes oppressive in the meta
>Melee is ruined

So this is how 20XX dies: choking on its own medicine.

People hate Jigglypuff because they hate watching a player who uses calculated strategy instead of button mashing like an autist.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smash_Box_controller
>Make a special controller specifically so that people don't have to keep using the glitched controllers
>It's use is banned in tournaments

>Project M gets made
>Gets banned by Nintendo from major tournaments but still allowed to have its own tournaments
>The devs drop it and the community abandons it

It's really hard to feel bad for Melee players

The latter is exactly what got melee so big and so exciting to watch in the first place. Extremely high mobility and the possibility of 0 to death juggles.

Instead now you get to watch HBox and his impenetrable defense game that nobody can get in on, waiting for the timer to run.

There is still a community behind Project M it's just that no super major will ever support it due to the legality issues behind it. I honestly think that CEO 2014 killed Project M because the numbers it pulled attracted the hand of Nintendo. No one else dared talk about it afterwards.

>Tournament organizers were worried that allowing the Smash Box controller to be used in tournament play would allow other unconventional and possibly game-breaking controllers to be used as well.

>In July 2017, a "tentative ban" on the use of non-GameCube controllers such as the Smash Box controller, stating that the classic controller is "somewhat intrinsic to what we consider 'playing Melee' and the skills involved in doing so."
Holy shit this is the worst thing I have ever fucking read. The entirety of competitive melee was found on wave dashing and L-cancelling. They've banned, unbanned, and rebanned wobbling, but THIS stays banned? A controller that helps prevent you from getting fucking carpal tunnel gets banned for the same reason that competitive melee was found in the first place? What the actual fuck.

The communal abandonment of PM is what killed my remaining sympathies for the Melee scene. PM was an absolute masterclass of Smash hacking and the closest thing to a followup that competitive Meleefags could ask for, but they widely rejected it since their Melee top tiers weren't as dominant before and they kept being thrown for a loop by new and different characters.

The only Meleefags I have respect for (a rare breed) are those who respect the game as a whole and not just its competitive aspects.

For what it's worth & all of the issues they have to deal with to have tournaments, PM is doing impressively well

The "magic" Ganon they made from near scratch was amazing. The careful buffs also made at at least 80% of the roster viable and they probably could have made heavies viable too without rage if they had kept it going for just a little bit longer.

But nope.

Jiggs becoming oppressive in the meta ruins melee because no one wants to play melee the way Jiggs demands and nobody enjoys watching the game when its played that way
It's not about a character being oppressive in the meta, its about the meta the oppression creates

Jigglypuff demands lower skill when compared to Spacies. But at the same time, Puff's output in raw damage, kill moves, defense, neutral pretty much are on par or even outclass Spacies.
I personally dont hate Puff, I just hate HBox for thinking he's a fucking God among men for playing Puff.
Seeing him cry completely justified Melee getting removed from EVO.

"At least Hungrybox will never win another EVO again"

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I'm in the mindset that Melee and its community are just trying to sustain themselves and not try to do other things.

>bair
>bair
>bair
>bair
Wow that's some strategy alright.

What's stopping people from picking up YL, Pika or Samus to deal with it? Anti-meta is a necessary thing at times.

The lack of developer support is what kills the game so much more than not being allowed to have super majors. Instead of a balanced Melee, we get
>Icons

Lots of pro players played PM. Chillin, Chudat, Wizzrobe, Plup, Mew2King ect. Just the gods (besides m2k) didn't really care for it. After Nintendo put the banhammer on all the pros quit which only makes sense because there is no money in it. It's really difficult to be supportive in a game that Nintendo actively censors.

Why CRTs?

I had my issues with the Ganon PSA (why didn't they just make his hover doable by holding jump?) but it showed great initiative to finding a balance between his beloved Melee clone aspects and some fidelity to his source games. Especially impressive considering how much more limited Brawl PSA knowledge and capabilities were at the time compared to now.

For me, however, Wario was their crowning jewel. Balance nitpicks aside he's legitimately how I feel official Wario should be as a base. I'd include more Ware stuff but also even more Land stuff instead of the hodge podge of LE WACKY RANDO SHIT XD that Sakurai has done.

Ask Kermit.

The Wii doesn't have native digital output

Literally the only reason heavies are bad in all smash games is because they are combo food. Being heavy is supposed to be a strength not a weakness, being able to take more hits in exchange for speed. Imagine if in street fighter if Zangief had exclusive extended combos that did twice the damage to him. It smash were to ever be truly balanced they would need to make everyone the same weight.

youtu.be/RVddfZuxsMc
Axe tried, it's not that easy.

Only good post itt

All of those have been tried and the only thing that finds any success is fox and people are just tired of playing fox against hbox's jigg
Like I said, people dont enjoy playing against it and people dont enjoy watching it

Killed it? This fucking game managed to survive more than a decade after it was release. What sort of autistic retard believes it would last forever?

You don't have to make heavies the same weight to make them viable. Sm4sh (and Ultimate) gave them rage and Icons just gave the heavies better neutral tools. The top tier in Aether (when I was still following the scene) was a heavy too.

probably the smell

play slap city

Which has the move alive scene, Slap City or Rivals of Aether?

>Rushed, unbalanced, unfinished buggy mess
Gee do I wonder.
Being a low functioning autist as a requirement for playing wasn't a good thing either.

It's cause people have finally grown up, and have stopped playing kids games.

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rivals probablyz
ironically im pretty sure the slap side tourney at g6 had more of a prize pool than most melee tournaments just fro
m dev support. thats how important that shit is

I don't recall any heavys being viable in Smash 4 and it looks to be the same in Ultimate. Icons was not out nearly long enough to say whether or not the single heavy character in the game was viable before it died. RoA I'm not sure about, never followed it.

Rivals of Aether easily
The biggest Smash events like Genesis feature it sometimes. Slap City, while looking promising, never really had much of a life.

I'm pretty sure Etalus is high or top tier in Rivals

Bowser & DK in Smash 4 were decent, MidHigh characters. But for that to have happened, they both needed the help of 70-80% kill confirms, sometimes earlier for DK.

jigglypuff and hbox
everyone saying ultimate is clinically retarded

While both are annoying and while Hbox is extremely cancerous, no, they did not end melee.

CRTVs, GC controller glitch, and inability to patch the game are what killed it.

Nice. Is the snake good? I heard she was bad when she first came out. But she's so cute

Arrogance AKA pride before the fall.

No idea, I've been out of the loop for a while. I played her for a bit and her moveset doesnt vibe with me at all

It’s always funny watching Yea Forums trying wrap their puny little brains around the most base level concepts in Melee. What a fucking awful board.

>24
5. plug in 4 controllers you fucking scrub

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Huh?

look melee has been shit ever since brawl has come, and now that ultimate is here, this game (melee) is like a shit planet
Melee relies on pure cheese, and gimmicks

>spacie game
>about 2 minutes
>puff game
>goes to time out
Literally would not care if hbox wasn't such a timer scammer, it's so boring

trying to wrap*

My b. Yea Forums is just constantly wrong about a lot when it comes to this game, most of it being simple stuff, like the GLITCHY CONTROLLERS DUDE XDD

Huh?

Fuck off Ultimatefags, Melee is still the best Smash game. At least we have stuff like trophies, break the targets and Home-run contest, your shitty game cut all of those features. What a fucking joke.

Need I also remind me of all the amazing things that Melee this the first time? It was the first time ever we saw characters like Ridley, Meta Knight and Pit in 3D, as well as bringing exposure to Fire Emblem in the West?

What did Ultimate achive in comparision? Nothing. Get fucked Ultimatefags, Melee will never die.

>Melee scene drying up due to boredom
>nobody’s calling him to commentate Ultimate
>has no job experience because he quit his high-paying engineering job to play Melee
What will this man have left after Melee finally expires?

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Forgot pic, look at this, first time we saw based Ridley in 3D.

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Hopefully a hole in the ground.
Disgusting human being

>what did ultimate achieve
a playerbase that doesn't stink

H-He's making his own tournament during EVO!

The devoted players that ruined the Smash players' reputaiton
Based

Good thing I like both games and don’t have to reee about why my club is better than the new club.

Pfffffft ya sure

>thread with genuine discussion and analysis is turning into fanbase shitflinging and "le epic stinky day XD" NPC faggery

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>What did Ultimate achive
Game balance

Is that why niggers on Yea Forums are constantly crying about how this character needs buffed or this character needs nerfed?

>It was the first time ever we saw charaters like Ridley, Meta Knight, and Pit in 3D
LITERALLY GRASPING AT STRAWS.

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Yea Forums can't beat a tranny has-been speedrunner in Smash. It has no room to talk about balance.

So what makes you qualified fellow Yea Forums poster?

Basically puff is as broken as fox but it ain't cool to watch.

Fuck off shill

I have never once said I was.

jigglypuff slows this game down 40%
not only is she super floaty and slow, you have to play obnoxiously safe otherwise she'll just hit you with a braindead rest combo and kill you at 20%
is she broken? no
but she'll awful to watch and play

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>it's so boring
Now you understand why people have been calling for Melee's exclusion from things like EVO for years. Nobody wants to fucking see Fox vs. Fox for the billionth time. It's a solved game.

Melee killed Melee, and this was long overdue.

It was Ice Climbers bro. They got banned so hard it removed the game from existence.

>killed it

It still has a bigger fanbase than MK

>Icons
Get that trash outta here.

1. Lack of shower day
2. Ultimate
3. Lack of people adapting to both Jigglypuff and Ice Climbers despite going all furry with their Fox n Falco mains.
4. Time
5. CRTVs, and how people can't adapt to a less glitchy-safer gamestyle so that they don't fuck their hands in a horrible manner.

Last year's top 8 had one Fox ditto and it wasn't even for the whole set why do people still lie about this?

DK isn't top tier in 4 or Ultimate but he's tournament viable (so around mid-high). Etalus and Sylvanos are both top tier in RoA, both heavies. Kragg is heavier and slower than both but you see him in tournaments all the time.

smash 4 players moved on to ultimate though

Rivals is like 10 times less dead than Slap which sucks since Slap is 10 times better

Time

A speed runner that was in the comp smash scene for like 5 years playing the 2nd best character in the game. Yea Forums can't even take matches of a mid tier WiFi warrior like me

> Melee is dying!
> Press S!
We hit record numbers at my local yesterday. People who think melee is dying don't play melee.

*Teleports Behind You* Nothing Personal, Kid

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So far nothing. The community feels bad that it won't be at EVO but it outperformed over Ultimate during their recent major tournament together.

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Bet nobody will reply to this with a serious argument because there's no way around it.
Happens every time I post something in a Smash thread where people are trying to diss on Melee.

smelly rats doesn't count

>he's right
>proceed to post non-argument
ok

>What killed it?
nothing did, and ever will.

The scene is getting quiet now because all the good players are scared of Hbox and would rather play Ultimate because it gets viewers.

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You’re retarded

Melee hasn't died and stats say it's doing better than Ultimate so far.
There's still no legitimate argument for any of this and all you have is witty comments of desperation trying to prove your point without facts.

Number views from a dedicated group of watchers doesn't necesarilly mean the game is flourishing, but rather that the dedicated fanbase can't let go.
Otherwise, why the hell did DBFz, Tekken and SFV did better than Melee?
And besides last Frostbite got more Ultimate players than Melee.

Frostbite doesn't include Melee.

>can't let go
That's not an argument.

Time

Also, DBFZ, Tekken, and SFV are bigger than Melee and nobody is arguing against that. In some cases Melee does better than those 3 but nobody has ever argued Melee always does better. Maybe over Tekken.
Sorry for replying in 3 separate posts but I was playing a game and had to alt+tab constantly.

Honestly, Melee did more with less. The presentation was strong and lingered. Sakurai thinks just putting stuff in a game makes it better without realizing why people held Melee in high regards. I almost wish Iwata did the alternative if Sakurai fucked off completely for Smash Wii; Melee with online. Maybe the newer Smash titles could have built off that game and created a whole new experience.

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Lets face it
Over a decade is a fucking long time for ANY game let alone a fighter.

It is when instead of adapting or overcoming any glitch that could negatively affect player's health and performance, people instead ban characters than only a dedicated playerbase (aka Starfox furfags) can't deal with.
Or also actually contribute to the Melee or Smash community overall.

Now you're trying to make an argument for a non argument. Saying something only does well because people can't let go is not a good argument. We could easily say people can't let go because it's just that good and no matter which way you shape it it's still good because these people are simply that hooked.
Also, there is no character ban and there never has been in Melee. There are also no glitches being used in competitive Melee.

He got another job in engineering iirc

I would never say "tr4.5h players only play ultimate cause new game=better game" because that's also not an argument.

EVO
Ultimate and Melee Pros going traitor
Jigglypuff and Wobbling

Competitive Melee’s biggest flaw is that not many characters are viable. Pretty much every character below the top 12 are worthless and depend more on MU inexperience than anything else. You pretty much have to say right out of the gate to a new player that picking Link is gonna keep them in pools forever. Hell, it’s why the Young Link floatie killer myth was prevalent for like a decade or more.

STINKY DAY

hbox

>boot up netplay last night at 1 am
>find a match with perfect connection in dead

This is an actual informed post, after reading the post to which I am responding, please feel free to close this thread

I think a bigger issue is that the Melee community really put into people's head that the Low tiers in Melee are REALLY BAD, and you shouldn't touch them ever. I may be in the minority, but I believe in good hands, a good part of the cast can do good enough, at least Lower Side of Top 100, maybe even higher. All the way down to Game&Watch/Mewtwo, maybe Ness.

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melee dying depresses me
I guess it can’t last forever...

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Do you have that image of Game and Watch's nair hitbox

Any day bro

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Fuck yes, thanks user

Lots of top level Melee players played PM at some point and many were the best at their respective PM mains to the point where a few of them single-handedly got them nerfed in later patches. PM was left for dead because the most popular stream on twitch for PM tournaments was getting Nintendobux to stream Sm4sh and didn't want to compromise it to run a hacked game.

>sMELEE

smaylay?

But that's true

A few characters would be a ton better with some very modest changes, like G&W being able to L-cancel all his aerials and having a shield that actually worked, or Mewtwo being heavier, better techs, and also having a proper shield. You can definitely tell both were put late into development, but then you have returning characters with glaring oversights, such as DK's shield being a easy to poke and half of Kirby's throws not working properly. Even Bowser had his d-throw fixed in a later release.