Metroidvania thread

I need your help, Yea Forums. What do you like about metroidvanias?
What are the aspects you enjoy and dislike about metroidvanias?
I'm trying to make a metroidvania game myself (2D of course) so I need some external inputs from other anons who enjoy the genre.
You could also just post about metroidvanias you're playing or have played recently.
I, for example, have been playing Aria of Sorrow as of late, which I found to be very fun (I love the soul system).

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Don't take hollow knight as your main reference or inspiration, if you want a game to have a reference, get it from games that gave birth to the genre like metroid and castlevania

One of the things I like the most about meteoidvanias is exploration, not combat which is also why HK didn't do much for me. Putting insteresting areas and enemies in your game sure can help a lot.

Game Maker's Toolkit has a nice video on Super Metroid if you want some cool theory about design.

youtube.com/watch?v=nn2MXwplMZA

This is all you need to know, OP.

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Try to be innovative and creative, and filled to the brim with secret content. Super Metroid, Castlevania, and La-mulana are the most praisd games because they all do completely new things with the genre, while most other great games in the genre are very derivative and repetitive, which tends to polarize them a bit like Hollow Knight or Rabi Ribi.

Satisfying items and abilities from bosses or exploration
Those items and abilities unlocking ways to explore that were previously visible (or not)
Pacing, with hectic encounters interspersed by quiet traversal
Color and variety that makes the map feel like a place you inhabit
Becoming familiar with that map by memory
Having areas or enemies act as gatekeepers to mysteries that require high skill to overcome, lengthening the time and amount of the game that is fascinatingly unknown

>Hollow Knight God Tier
not with that level design.

THOUGHTFUL LEVE DESIGN
THOUGHTFUL ENEMY PLACEMENT
REMEMBER TO MAKE THE FIRST LEVEL THE LAST LEVEL YOU MAKE

>la shitania on the same level as SM and SotN

Never fails to get a laugh out of me

Honestly, too many metroidvanias are too much like metroid. There arent enough games that for for the post SotN style. I want some leveling and a huge selection of equipable weapons and armor. Also hidden items and secret rooms seem to be lacking in general these days. You should also take some pages out of the snes mega man x games and sotn, have secret optional powerups that are difficult to obtain and hidden story routes.

Is metroid fusion even a metroidvania?

The genre is now very diluted and spread out. The next evolution is by introducing new concepts and following through on them. This is why Ori and Hollow Knight are not particularly great games, as they merely piggyback on prior games' established concepts.

by definition yes, it opens up to metroidvania after you get the last upgrade. A good 90% of the game can be considered an on-rails platformer otherwise.

Git Gud shitter

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>look for good metroidvanias
>a ton of people suggest guacamelee
No thanks, kiddos

Axiom verge is immensely underrated

Because SotN is garbage. RPG mechanics ruin any attempt at balance.

metroid games aren't metroidvanias you retarded faggot

I've grown to dislike this genre the more games I play.

>metroid is literally in the name of the genre.
I'm guessing Rogue isn't a roguelike either?

I don't think so. It's a flawed game.

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Shadow Complex needs to be on there.

shadow complex is literally the dane cook of metroidvanias.

Avoid keys. Everything should have multiple uses. ie in Metroid; Missiles are the red door key but they're also a weapon.

The biggest mistake I see indie metroidvanias make is it takes too long to get the basic power ups. Double jump, crawl/slide/whatever, and dash should all be obtained before the halfway point (and even that's pushing it really).

Fine, then add a Dane Cook tier and slot it in.

Only if you seriously over grind and have immunity items. RPG mechs open up the option for level locked runs and other difficulty spikes. You also get the benefit of allowing more lower skill or new to the genre people to play without sacrificing difficulty by allowing them to grind. For balance just have harder boss fights and enemies that have more mechanics than "hit with weapon". Good enemy design is what makes the balance.

>What do you like about metroidvanias?
The exploring and non-linearity.
>What do you dislike about metroidvanias?
The first hour or two.

They follow this formula
>use available abilities to beat a boss / puzzle to unlock new ability
>option to backtrack with new ability to unlock enhancements/extra content, or go foward to the next boss/puzzle
>Lastly, in the end, there is a strong feeling of progression and your character feels incredibly more powerful than the start. Not stat wise, but in the new abilities/movements/attacks available now

Thats it mate. Thats a metriodvanya at its core, keep this in mind when level building and balancing and it will be a fun game.

metroidvanias are just action games with extra steps.

The most underrated aspect of good vanias is the platforming. Make sure your controls are tight before you worry about the world building. Too often when I play vanias the actual movement is an after thought.

They’re this simple RPG trade off of time/risk/strategy that involves using your abilities to find new enhancements on the side routes, or ignoring them and heading through the main game.

Whatever you do, do not put in a system where you fucking level up. SotN would be fucking perfect if the difficulty was static the entire way through. You become a fucking god long before you ever enter the inverted castle and the final boss folds like paper mache.

Good level design and sense of progression are key to a good metroidvania. Monster Boy is a great recent example that did it right.

Move Axiom Verge up a tier.

Who here considers Turok 2 a metroidvania?

I want to see a metroidvania where you're constantly being pursued by 1 boss. New skills acquired let you fight him off more effectively until you finally beat him

it would also be a rng roguelike

have you ever heard of OVERWHELM? It's not exactly that (instead of you getting stronger, the enemies and the bosses get stronger every time you kill a boss), enemy placement is random and generally you'll hear enemies before you see them. Also limited continues.

What is the game with the knight in ops picture?

rogue legacy

Monster boy and the cursed kingdom is a criminally underrated metroidvania.

Hell no, the level design and boss battles are pretty bad. Exploration becomes a bore really fast.

Great lore, though.