Ruins RPG's forever

This sums it up really well, actually.

>he doesn't get lost and check the map to make sure he's still going in the right direction

Attached: 1542771848778.jpg (640x480, 53K)

This. Horseshoe icons have no place in modern gaming. It's just tasteless.

I bet you use fast travel as well.

>Quests in Gothic that doesn't show you where you should go

>Uh i saw this bandit camp in the forest near that city that is near that road to the left of that sign which is in front of that house with the broken windows

>Quests in Skyrim or most modern RPGs
>I saw a bandit camp
>*location added to map**

Yeah, just turn the hud off, you fucking retard

Attached: 214141241.jpg (480x480, 22K)

Compare the quest directions from Morrowind and those from Skyrim.

Morrowind tells you where to go. Skyrim expects you to follow a marker.

i agree, fuck windmills.

daily reminder Assassin's Creed Odyssey shares more in common with Morrowind than Skyrim does

Attached: omxugJP.png (1065x1564, 1.02M)

This. Have fun looking 200 hours for the draugr lair, entering draugr lair, completing draugr lair and hoping it was the one the NPC meant when giving you the quest a month ago

Attached: 1550928111212.png (699x698, 343K)

Playing Morrowind after Oblivion made me think voiced NPC do more harm than good to RPGs

How many times on a blind/first playthrough of Skyrim do you sit there going: "Why is the marker leading me here?"
The thieves guild is a pretty obvious one most people will have experienced. You just get told to go to The Ragged Flagon. You never get told where it is. Suddenly you're wandering through a sewer fighting two inexplicably hostile named NPC's and you have no idea why and no reason for doing it other then the waypoint marker telling you to.

You can still have voices, just have it be minimal and then go straight into a Daggerfall-tier dialog system

go play daggerfall user dfworkshop.net you don't know what you're missing

Attached: daggerfall dialogue system.png (640x400, 33K)

They good when used correctly, but limiting yourself only to what's voiced is always a terrible fucking decision. Ideally you want their main lines and ambient dialogue to be voiced, and then a generic 'Okay'/'Yes?'/'Go on' Oblivion style set of lines and more extensive, sandbox, unvoiced dialogue - stuff like asking for the location of a particular NPC or place, asking about local lore/history, ect.

Even better
>explore the world without any particular goal because it's immersive
>killing animals while you're at it for the xp and trophies
>run into landmark
>either clear and loot it or keep it in mind for later
>later on, some npc mentions they want something from that place
>you've already done it or at least know where to go to later

Organic gameplay at its best that is still unrivalled by any other RPG

>using handholding spell instead

Attached: 3023yg9.jpg (1600x900, 78K)

The problem with this is that all videogames who didn't have waypoints were designed blatantly as fuck.
And in games like Gothic for example you ALWAYS knew exactly where to go because the game world was designed so obvious and methodic.
>he's located north of X
>look at map
>north of X has only one point of interest
>know immediately where to go
At one point devs just realized they can cut out the middleman and put in markers, because the other way was an annoyance.
The people who claim that video games used to be so much better without markers, are either delusional or live roleplaying in these discussions. Because if anything, markers allowed developers freedom in world building, as the limited worlds of no-marker games show.

>they no longer need to pay as much attention to worldbuilding.
And this is blatant bullshit. TW3 has icons out of its ass, yet it has the best and most realistic designed world(geometry) games have ever seen.
>How many use waypoints to avoid having to explain parts of a quest to a player, or give them directions, or do something more in-depth?
I've only played Skyrim once but even I emember that NPC always say "go there, its outside the village if you go north" even with markers.
>What about all the times when you have no idea what to do with something and only bother to interact with it at all because of the waypoint hovering over it
Literally never happened because as said in the opening, games are designed that way. If you come into a room with nothing but an altar in the middle, you surely dont run around with "no idea what to do and only bother to interact with it because of the marker."
Not to mention that even a game like Skyrim had plenty of things to pick up that weren't marked yet still added to quests or started some.

Point is: you have a romantic view of no-marker games thats fueled by nostalgia which makes you inject shit into marker games that dont even exist. Just stop being a fag.

This.

>Morrowind
>"Go north, hang a left at the temple, NPC lives in the second house on the right."
>Skyrim
>"Go talk to the NPC!"

Telling people to just turn off the casual features doesn't work, because games that use casual features by default are generally designed around those features. You'd have to completely rebalance, change dialogue, put up different visual cues, possibly redesign key portions of the map, etc.

Minimaps are far worse. If a game has a minimap, it automatically has 0/10 level design.

but then it is ubishit

>TW3 has icons out of its ass, yet it has the best and most realistic designed world(geometry) games have ever seen.

Yet it can't be played without HUD elements because it's poorly designed and there are very few landmarks and the NPCs "mark your map" instead of giving you a general direction

Even fucking Assassin's Creed, Red Dead Redemption and Zelda do better world building than these so called "RPGs"

Attached: eso patricians vs skyrimmer plebs.jpg (960x620, 88K)

i did enjoy how many times they added "actually, i already did that" responses with quest givers.

>a newer approach to playstyle
>the way RPGs played in the past is now considered 'new'
I guess this is how it feels to grow old.

ESO is so far above Oblivion and obviously Skyrim in terms of lore and writing that it's not even funny

I love even more when ghe npcs respond like “shit man you are efficient”

I didn't know Shittcher and Elder Bore = all RPGs

>suddenly you're wandering through a sewer fighting two inexplicably hostile named NPC's and you have no idea why and no reason for doing it
Are you literally retarded? Brynjolf literally tells you to enter the sewers.
>The group I represent has its home in the Ratway beneath Riften... a tavern called the Ragged Flagon
>How do I find the Ratway?
>It's under your feet, lad. Just follow the smell."

I was annoyed by that too but at least it's coming back

Kingdom Come Deliverance did it
Divinity Original Sin 2 did it
Red Dead Redemption 2 did it
Assassin's Creed Odyssey did it
ELEX did it
Breath of the Wild did it

They just announced the new loremaster now that Lawrence is retiring. He handled Clockwork City and Murkmire. It's in good hands.

Attached: spellcrafting.png (1920x1080, 1.77M)

>Even fucking Assassin's Creed, Red Dead Redemption and Zelda do better world building than these so called "RPGs"
hahahaha
>not being able to turn of hud is "poor design"
I love how far you guys always reach to have even remotely a point

You clearly didn't play it then.
Exploration mode is fucking dumb.
Instead of just having the location on the map, you click the bird button, they scream the location at you, then it's on the map.

>game is designed around shitty ui element
>"lol, just ignore it and walk around aimlessly"

Elder Scrolls shit aren’t rpgs

Sil's writing was really great so that's excellent news

wtf is eso actually getting spellcrafting?

>Breath of the Wild did it
I thought BotW did the Ubi 'climb tower and places get marked on your map' thing.

I played ESO at its launched, and it sucked major dicks. Heard it was better now, but do you need to buy the 30 bucks expensions with it ? I had the huge ass molag bal statue if that matters.

You're retarded if you think disabling the UI that the world was literally built around is a solution. It isn't and if you weren't a retarded millennial faggot, you'd know this.

Even so, you still have to spot the location in the general area and you can totally play it without using the eagle vision because NPCs actually give you enough information to work with "on the southern tip of Ithaca between the two rocks with moss on them"

Attached: 1550899955537.png (1279x720, 1.37M)

naw, this can't be real.
I disabled compass for Skyrim VR and it was fucking awesome.

>hahaha posting

No, you climb the towers, use binoculars and spot the locations on your map. Game is very easy to navigate without UI elements.

You can get all the major expansions+DLCs for like $40 on sale. They've put out 6 zone DLCs and two expansions since you last played. Soon to be three with Elsweyr.

ESO used to be a piece of shit and I hated it but now it's one of my top played games. Unironically best TES game since Daggerfall/Morrowind.

Attached: eso UI.jpg (620x350, 66K)

>RDR2 did it

Attached: 1551354228482.png (593x580, 621K)

>Assassin's Creed Odyssey did it
Oh fuck off. Exploration mode was huge joke. At least tell it how it actually is:
>only 1/20 of quests even use exploration mode, the rest has markers everywhere
>many NPCs don't even give you directions but the game itself gives them to you in the quest descriptions after the NPC says "go there"
>description is always spot on so you literally cannot miss where you need to go, essentially being a marker in writing
An example of "exploration mode:"
>he's north of x mountain
>west of city y
>he's in the z bandit camp
They always nail it down to a tee like this. Not to mention as user said above, the world design is so methodic that you literally cannot miss anything since there's only so many spots where NPCs could be.
Sorry but Odyssey is a terrible example because it does it absolutely terrible, and exploration mode is a complete travesty.

>At one point devs just realized they can cut out the middleman and put in markers, because the other way was an annoyance.
At least, the other way, you needed to engage with what you were doing, you couldn't just do it on autopilot. You needed to listen to/read the directions you were given, open your map, and look at the location. I suppose it all comes down to your preferences on idle/casual gaming, but I kinda figure if you can pay zero attention to the game, tune out, and follow a waypoint, you're not really 'playing' it or engaged with it in any way. Point is, one requires some minor level of interaction and effort on the player's part, which in my experience, being active and engaged in such a way makes a game a much more memorable/enjoyable experience.

TW3 was actually the example I was going to give of the exception. It uses waypoints and witcher senses, but for the most part, it's pretty well laid out, so I'll definitely give you that one. This is, however, the difference between a dev team going the extra mile or using the system as a crutch.

>NPCs actually give you enough to work with.
Actually true, i recall often not using the bird at all.
Could still do without the giant golden ring of "LOOK OVER HERE" though.

Turn off the compass. The dialog changes and the NPCs give you better directions.

It sucks no one knew this. It's the definitive way to play the game.

lolno

No you have to mark Points of interest by yourself with the binocular. All quest are playable without mapmarkers. All the directions are written down in the Journal.

no, you climb the tower to get the map
then you fill out the map by actually getting there
so before climbing tower the map is just literally black out

I bought a one-time sub and played through all the quests and lore in a month, well worth the money

>turn it off to immerse myself
>check quest log to
>"Talk to Yorgen" and that's it
hmmm

No, enabling a tower reveals no icons at all, you can place map markers after finding something, and that's a great way to make the map feel like you're achieving something, you're essentially mastering the locations of resources, as you progress the game.

Jesus Christ how much did you play? I've been playing pretty consistently for four years and I haven't even scratched the surface in a lot of zones and expansion DLCs

One of the first things I did when I bought Skyrim in 2011 was to disable the markes and compass in Skyrim.ini, and it was great, because I actually got lost more than once. Most of the quests could be done because the quest-giver marked the place on the map; and when that didn't happen, I just had to open the journal, select the quest and press 'm': the map would point to the location.

I'd still like to have actual directions, but saying that Skyrim doesn't work without floating markers is a lie.

>You're retarded if you think disabling the UI that the world was literally built around is a solution
I dont, thats the point.
>you still have to spot the location in the general area and you can totally play it without using the eagle vision
You have to spot jackshit because thegame always tells you exactly where to go, and there's literally nothing else in the area to look for.
Its even worse because, even there's literally only one place in front of you to look in, the game still tells you "use ikaros now to spot your target!".
Really great exploration mode you got there faggot.

>"on the southern tip of Ithaca between the two rocks with moss on them"
Thats literally not how it is with any quests. The only times the game does that is with the little notes that have extra loot. And even them are so blatantly obvious its not funny anymore. You literally cannot miss them and know exactly where to look because they lterally tell you where to pick up treasure.
If you wanted to have a point, you'd have posted Unity's enviromental riddles who actually required some thought.

That's nice. I'll have to play it some day.

This is very anecdotal but I tried it too and I was fucked as soon as I was told to kill a Draugr lair boss outside of Whiterun. Where outside of Whiterun? No fucking idea.

where can i pirate eso?

I played it a while ago and during the beta.
Seemed exactly the same to me.
Too few armor sets, kinda dumb classes, some classes are even dog shit compared to others.

Pirahna Bytes wanted no UI at all for gothic aiming for a complete immersion. The only thing they left in being the hp and mana bars.

I'd turn off her HUD, naw'mean?

Don't bother, it's boring.

It's an MMO. Get it off a keysite for like $10
base game has thousands of hours of content. Not even an exaggeration.... And all the content is viable. Not just the latest expansion stuff. Whole game is endgame.

>You literally cannot miss them and know exactly where to look because they lterally tell you where to pick up treasure.
That's exactly how it should be! That's how good directions work.

This.

Exploration mode is rightfully panned everywhere. Biggest disappointment I've felt in years.
The biggest issue was how artificial it was. Even if the game didn't say that someone/something is IN a certain place, you always knew exactly where to look because in the general area usually meant captured by bandits or something similar.
>At least, the other way, you needed to engage with what you were doing, you couldn't just do it on autopilot.
True, but it depends on how its implemented. Look at this for example, where you have to engage with absolute shit.
Literally the only engagement here is opening the quest and then read where you need to go. After ten hours you can switch off exploration mode because even the biggest retard realized by then that it literally makes no difference and there's literally 0 exploration.
Its not much of an engagement if something tells to go north of a place when there's only one place to go to. Even when there's two places the game always tells you where to go.
Odyssey is in fact a good example why devs put in quest markers in the first place.

Why does every zone look exactly the same in ESO?
I just started playing and everything is so gray and brown also every building looks exactly the same.

Attached: bleurgh.jpg (1920x1080, 699K)

>That's exactly how it should be!
No it shouldn't because its boring as fuck!
Its just an an endless errant run with no player involvement whatsoever. You literally just get told where to pick something up like a fucking drone.
The fact that you say that this is how it should be, shows how misdirected your reasoning is.
Its literally just a marker, but only in writing instead of symbol. The concept itself is shit.

I got to c160 in 6 days, had a lot of free time.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but don't a lot of BotW's side quests and shrine quests not have markers?
Like I remember searching forever for that white horse cause there was no marker to tell me where it was, same with that cookbook quest

Attached: 9b1.jpg (320x240, 28K)

dont believe the lies. its pretty much ubisoft shit.

they're right that you just open up the map, but there's literally nothing to explore or find because everything is clearly marked out. shrines are even marked with pillars of light so you cannot miss them.
they build it up like you actually explore, but you just run down poi's

ESO has the craziest variation I've ever seen in any MMO. Every culture, race and almost the entirety of Tamriel is already in. We're talking 30+ cities at least with them feeling much bigger and alive than Bethesda's idea of a "city".

Leave the province. Go to another. There's a lot of variety.

Attached: Solitude capitol of Skyrim.png (1538x886, 3.06M)

Have fun exploring.

Is it really feasible to play that way? I don't think there are many signs or landmarks as in Morrowind.

Wrothgar is comfy as fuck

Attached: ry9p7irz8w521.jpg (3840x2160, 759K)

I have literally no clue how people can call Odyssey's exploration mode good, or even say that this is game that does anything right.
Its a complete clusterfuck.
When even the bootlickers on reddit trash something for being poorly implemented then you really need to take the hint.

yeah i'm sure getting boar asses is much more exciting in eso than wow.

Murkmire is good too

t. WoWshitter that thinks all MMOs are like WoW
I can't exactly fault you for thinking that after MMOs were the same shit for a solid 10 years but it's really not.

Attached: murkmire dlc.jpg (1000x491, 108K)

There's like 10 of those quests, most are Skyrim-like where you gotta talk to various NPCs or find a sword in a crypt

>you've discovered "NAME"

if you discover something, how do you already knows it's name? I can understand it for cities and shit, but dungeons and other stuff off the beaten track?
My immersion.

The markers only point to the place where you picked the quest up.

Do you have screenshots of murkmire. I don't play TESO, but I love TES and argonians are my favourite race.

No, it doesn't.

> shrines are even marked with pillars of light
this only happen if you saw the fucking thing first and decide to mark it yourself
why even lie about shit like this when literally anybody play the game can call you out on the bullshit

Going open world ruined RPGs

holy fuck thanks for this, didn't know about a daggerfall unity port, thought everything stopped with daggerxl

>anti map marker and compass
I thought we stopped having these threads when Yea Forums realized that only autists stick to following map markers while everybody else follows whatever they want. Games with quest markers don't point to valuable armor, useful weapons, possible side quests, and interesting landmarks. It's still up to players to explore for them on their free will.

Attached: 1349852164555.jpg (450x333, 16K)

user you operate under the mistaken assumption that even half the people on Yea Forums have ever actually played the games they bitch about

Daggerfall Unity comes with a fulll modding framework so people are adding shit to the open world, new factions, new dynamic events, new locations. Filling up the world in general. It's awesome.

I'd post some webms but they're too big. Check out the mods though.

Attached: todd gun.png (1080x1121, 1.1M)

>>ruins RPG's forever
How? It's a piece of the UI showing what your character can and can't see, another one of those implied things your character keeps track of physically while being more accessible for the player.

>farcry
>just do whatever

Sorry senpai I don't but you should really play ESO for Murkmire alone. You can do it at level 1. It'd cost you the base game plus $15 for the DLC though

Here's a trailer for it.
youtube.com/watch?v=UVaOfgN4AXI

Easily the deepest dive they've ever gone into on Argonian culture.

Attached: TES3MP.jpg (1024x768, 221K)

I appreciate that old picture, too. The humor takes me back to earlier days of the internet.

Honestly if you're even the slightest bit fan of The Elder Scrolls, you should play eso

Unlike Todd's team, they're not scared to do the "weird stuff" and the loremaster is Kirkbride-tier. Gameplay-wise it's a huge step up above Skyrim and Oblivion and quest design is 10000x better than both.

The game was dogshit at launch. Turnaround of the century desu

I already bought the basegame, but the last time tried to play the game my pc died shortly after I completed the first quest. I repaired it, but got distracted by other games. If you say that the game is that good I might play it. Do you have tips for soloplayers? My char is a argonian nightblade. Is that fine for solo?

Attached: {9CF830B0-536C-4E6D-9DC5-563C98B2E866}.bmp.jpg (1920x1080, 734K)

play with is my only advice. It's like Skyrim Online but with tons of depth and there's way too much to cover outside of "buy DLC and expansions as you want/need it, you won't run out for a looooooooong time"

OH NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
>the deepest dive they've ever gone into on Argonian culture
FUCKING SKYBABBIES HAHAHAHA

Who are you /tesog/bro?

Right now is a really good time to play because they're doing the anniversary events for Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood. I'm actually logged in right now doing some sacraments and goddamn this game is gorgeous.

Attached: eso64_vsFD77RE1q.jpg (1876x1156, 353K)

>hide in bushes for the ambush
>its 1 specific bush marked by a gps blob in the forest area

imagine unironically making this post about fictional lizardpeople lore

What other game covered Argonian culture better? Morrowind? Argonians aren't naturally slaves you mong

here's another screenshot I just took inside the dark brotherhood's sanctuary

Attached: eso64_ld8wn7nwDn.jpg (1846x1268, 420K)

I prefer this to a minimap

These. Yea Forums has tendency to berate games features they didn't even play.
NPCs usually tell you where you're going anyway so your character is also just marking them on your map.
And let's not forget the times even devs and writers get the directions wrong and only a map marker could have the right way: Witcher 3 had an early quest giver say go to an eastern pond to find a witch but she was actually at a western river, and Morrowind had quests that got the Fells areas mixed up.
Shit happens.

Attached: 1323566622216.png (320x287, 104K)

That's like saying you prefer to eat a solid log of shit instead of a plate of diarrhea
And I prefer neither to either

Attached: zbb1br9Dxqf8OhRqiUPFNYW98Om8H8ztohKpv8CIijI.jpg (1024x343, 64K)

Thank you! I'm living in a village and our internet connection is absolute shit here, but I will read the new players guide while waiting for the download. What is the anniversary event you are talking about?

>Morrowind had quests that got the Fells areas mixed up

>mfw spending a couple of hours fumbling around the shorelines because that bitch Asura gives the wrong directions
I wouldn't be surprised if the people who praised Morrowind's lack of out-of-menu area markers didn't play beyond the main quest.

Attached: Mr.Krabs.jpg (640x480, 56K)

elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/55819
It's worth the download. Would you play on NA or EU servers?

>village
what the fuck?

the ends justify the means
i'd rather have one or two broken quests than have my game designed around a system that destroys all sense of natural exploration

nigga, you expect me to read a ton of text in my RPGs?

Yes. Retard.

fuck you nigga, i aint got time for that bullshit.

then find another genre of games to play and stop ruining mine

Attached: aAxAvYg_700b.jpg (550x543, 30K)

I disagree. It helps when players have the freedom to not do quests sequentially and find their bearings if they accumulate to many objectives at once.

>a system that destroys all sense of natural exploration
How? You still can explore the lands however you want and discover landmarks on your own. What games are you playing where this isn't the case?

Attached: 1471657826964.jpg (601x601, 121K)

the future is now old man. we are the majority.

I'm not even old I've just played games with great world building like Daggerfall/Kingdom Come Deliverance/Gothic/ELEX and you know what they have in common? Not being designed around some gay compass bullshit.

Attached: 7fe.gif (500x394, 171K)

My character is on a EU-Server. The Event sounds like a perfect fit for my character, but I'm just at the start of the game, so I probably won't profit from it.

ESO's class system, insistence on mmo "quests", the MK redditors who support anything with a hint of his name on it, samey visual design, and the world scaling to your level is really bad

What are you referring to exactly?
The compass? I don't see how your character having a compass is immersion breaking.
The location icons? Those tend to show up when they're already in view.
The quest mark? Npc's already give your directions on where to go anyway.

>i need to waste my time searching alone so i can feel super smart.
sorry boomer not everyone have a whole day to spend searching for some shitty cave quests

It's better than a mini map or needing to open your full map every 5 seconds to see where you're going.

>insistence on mmo "quests"
The fuck are you talking about? If anything the game tries to be too much like a singleplayer game instead of an MMO

>dfworkshop.net
It's not even in the alpha stage.

>ruins RPG's
Maybe f you're an autist who feels compelled to walk only where the arrow points you. Even casuals don't completely follow map marks and decide to do whatever they want. And besides, the bigger games got the more quests we got. I don't want to mess about with general directions and npc routines just to find a guy who asked me to bring him back a sword for a mission I picked up 8 hours ago.

Attached: 1446639046366.jpg (599x551, 349K)

dfworkshop.net/projects/daggerfall-unity/roadmap/
So? Neither is OpenMW and both are already the ideal ways to play Morrowind and Daggerfall even though they're not feature complete.

If you get the DLCs you can do them immediately.

Forget the compass, what's up with marking points of interest before you even discover them?

Attached: FWYHTbH.jpg (1105x761, 727K)

It'd be silly if your character was *completely* ignorant of the local infrastructure.

I don't mind those either. From the open-ended rpgs I've played, the player character is a traveler or a young native that knows the basic layout of the land and mainly have big areas marked on their map. I like how TES did it by having your character not know the location of smaller villages but know where the bigger cities are.

Attached: map_of_skyrim_bintoenglish.jpg (1600x1175, 193K)

Good. I think I will just subscribe to ESO Plus then.

>red dead redemption

Attached: 1551322104757.png (594x582, 41K)

>JUST TURN IT OFF DURRRRRRRRRR
>A GPS IN MEDIEVAL TIMES IS LORE FRIENDLY DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
>THINKING AND EXPLORING IS NOT FUN DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
kill all zoomers

Attached: 1551841901396.png (534x520, 21K)

>Classic WoW
>"Did you read the quest?" was a common line against people who didn't know where to go
>The descriptions actually led you where you needed to be

>Modern WoW
>Its just marked on the map
>Reading the quests is entirely pointless, and if you did it doesn't have the appropriate information to find what area you should be in

Imagine writing off a really good game because it's mainstream and people from another website play it too

Unironically neck yourself faggot.

It would be funny if Bethesda actually did something about the gay GPS quest markers in Skyrim 2 since they're kinda going out of fashion.
But then again it's Bethesda and they are only capable of ruining aspects of the series.

More people are gaming now.
Means more people are too dumb to figure shit out
Means to make money, they dumb down games now.

I would love to people these days play late 90s computer adventure games. Guarantee every zoomer would just give up.

>games must be realistic
lol and you call others brainlets

>classic wow
>quest descriptions are ass
>everyone uses thottbot

>modern wow
>quests are visible on the map
>this is somehow a bad thing

>CONVENIENT = BETTER
>IF YOU CAN CONSIDER SOMETHING "MORE REALISTIC" THEN IT'S AUTOMATICALLY WORSE
kill yourself zoomer

The compass is actually quite convenient. Cardinal directions keep you headed in the right direction, and you can see the locations of interesting things near you so you always have something to interest you.
It's quest markers that are the problem. Specifically quest markers that point you exactly to your destination.
A quest marker should be like an x drawn on a map. You know the general location but once you get there you have to look around. And it is totally sensible for characters in that world to mark locations on your map. Why would they give you shitty directions like in Morrowind when you have a perfectly good map?

Attached: todd kick.png (1161x957, 672K)

WoW was always a normalfag plague that ruined games in many ways

Developers are just lazy. Difficulty settings should be utilized more properly and not just mean xDamage taken and dealt .

There are a few mods for road signs, and I think there is a mod that makes quests more descriptive in the menu, but it doesn't change the fact that npc's don't tell you where everything is on their own.

>ugh if the game doesn't take hours to perform a simple task it's not smart enough for me!
Take your gamer e-cred and shove it up your ass, moron.

How many people would be able to navigate a map though? They're ubiquitous nowadays but were probably only be the tools of explorers in medieval times.

Attached: murica.png (748x632, 173K)

You're so painfully dumb and ignorant it hurts, go back to your cod of duty.

Having a physical compass in the game is ideal. Especially for sword and board/archer fags so they can't just have it out 24/7

>no arguments
I thought you were actually smart?

In real life maps were rare and valuable because they were hand made and paper was fairly expensive.
But in skyrim you can just handwave an explanation about magical ways to copy text and paper is clearly cheap given how many books are strewn about the world. So maps would be ubiquitous.

Where is your argument exactly? You just spouted nonsense.

My argument is that it's a game and you don't need to waste (more) time playing it.
Where is yours now? I'll wait.

I don't want to have to autistically switch to a compass item all the time just to check which way I'm going. I'm not opposed to having a compass item in the game you have to buy, but it should just toggle the compass UI on or off.

Sure, always make it a toggle but make sure the user knows that is the casual shitter option and the ideal way to play it is the physical item in hand.

What exactly is "wasting" time? Why do you think running a beeline towards a quest marker is more valuable time than investigating the environment and rubbing two braincells together? Your whole argument falls flat on its face since it requires the zoomer inclination of thinking that the only thing that matters in a game is watching cutscenes and smashing the attack button, it's like you can't understand abstract concepts of spatial learning and exploration.

If you have to constantly switch the compass then you must have some serious brain injury.

not him but he's right.
only autists care for the "exploration" meme.
most big league RPGs are long enough as it is.

sorry but I dont wanna waste my god given time on earth by running through the woods for hours looking for a chest.
your shit is so outdated its not funny anymore.
>spatial learning
this shit doesnt belong in virtual toys about slaying dragons with your meme sword

>the ideal way to play is to pretend its like I'm really an adventurer!
immersion and realism fags are the cancer killing games. they literally hate everything that is an actual game, and want everything to be their virtual reality experience so they can play pretend as vikings or whatever.

fucking ass

>What exactly is "wasting" time?
Trying to complete your quests without any pointers except a badly written text provided by the quest giver that is full of half-truths and bad grammar. For example, see Morrowind's quests.

>Why do you think running a beeline towards a quest marker is more valuable time than investigating the environment and rubbing two braincells together?
Because I actually get to finish my quest while investigating the environment, it's the same thing but more fun.

>Your whole argument falls flat on its face since it requires the zoomer inclination of thinking that the only thing that matters in a game is watching cutscenes and smashing the attack button, it's like you can't understand abstract concepts of spatial learning and exploration.
Now you are just reaching, as expected from a wojakposter who speaks in buzzwords.

Do your parents a favor and off yourself.

It's very easy to lose track of which way you're going after getting distracted by loot or some enemy you get in a fight with. Or you might need to go west, but you end up going south west or something due to the terrain and skip past your destination without realizing it.

You are also a zoomer moron, no surprise there.
Imagine actively and consciously defending the retardarization of videogames, how fucking dumb someone can be?

Shame it is so darn grindy tho

Then use Clairvoyance you gay homosexual faggot..

Attached: 49815-1-1389532722.jpg (670x376, 42K)

>I don't want immersion in my ROLE PLAYING games
Yeah you're the cancer killing this genre not me faggot.

Fine line between horeshit exploration and handholding.
Take the older Zelda games or the Souls games. No objective markers and shit, and minimal time-wasting.

You have your call of duty or whatever it is that games play if you want map marker chasing simulation, just go play that instead of ruining a genre based on learning and exploration with your zoomzoom lack of taste.

Use the position of the sun to orientate yourself. That's what I did when I turned everything off. I still ended up going the wrong way because I'm a retard.

absolutely seething, lol
better luck next thread

This. Retards hijacked a genre I liked and turned it to shit. I'm asking for the genre to go back to what it was after ten years of games that are the size of an ocean and the depth of a puddle.

>hurr I'm a retard lol you got mad I win :^)
neck yourself faggot

Hi, I'm here to save modern RPG.

Attached: outward.webm (994x560, 2.96M)

You repeated the same shit of automatically assuming watching cutscenes and smashing the attack button is "more fun" when the whole point of the discussion is that quest markers ruin the sense of exploration and you are just reinforcing this fact by implying games should only be about doing quests as fast as possible, your critical thinking skills are appalling.

No one here cares about what you personally think is more fun, that's not the discussion.

Outward is going to be 2019's Kingdom Come Deliverance. Hyped as fuck.

>no arguments except name-calling
Yup, a wojakposter alright lol

I have an argument. I've been making arguments this entire thread. You're the one coming in posting ABSOLUTELY SEETHING XD

kys douchebag

>ust go play that instead of ruining a genre based on learning and exploration with your zoomzoom lack of taste.
L FUCKING MAO!
>a genre based on slaying skeletons and goblins and fetching shit for villagers, only cherished by overweight, balding metal fans who desperately want to pretend its real
ahahahahaha ahhhhhhimsorry user that progress has ruined your fantasy. wait, no im not.

I have never been able to enjoy this game. The world is an animatronic waxwork museum and the writing and voice acting are very bad. And I never know where to go to get more quests to advance the plot because I am a stupid, stupid person.

>exploration is part of the experience

Attached: 005.jpg (1000x662, 248K)

So a boring game with awkward, clumsy combat?

>witcherfag shitposting about exploration in RPGs
imagine my shock
your favorite series is a glorified choose your own surface level adventure. Should've stayed a book.

how fitting witchertard would say this
your game is just polished ass creed

Zelda games (outside of BotW) and Dark Souls are very different in the world approach to world than Bethesda shit though, in OoT there's a single area north to the west and such.

What's wrong with Outwards?

Nothing. Only an idiot would take "2019's Kingdom Come Deliverance" as an insult in the context of a role playing game.

2D Zeldas are practically open world and make heavy usage of that process of building a mental model of world features and things to do which you will then link up in your head as you gather a better understanding of the world, this process is what many Zelda clones completely lack.
Dark Souls is a lot simpler and essentially just linear corridors with a lot of branching, it's good in its own way and works with the game's dynamic but I wouldn't hold it as the standard RPGs should follow.

They are not open world. You are essentially walled inside the path to go because you need multiple items to get access to different places.

Dark Souls was supposed to be more open world compared to Demon's Souls so imagine my shock when it's just a single seamless world and it's just corridors connected within corridors

Feels bad man. I wanted vast open plains with explorable dungeons and shit to do.... Kind of like Outward
youtube.com/watch?v=1-MGk8cD3ss

Attached: fMF4mpk.jpg (1280x720, 94K)

Sounded like an insult

Attached: 1551666922721.gif (320x240, 2.65M)

>I wanted vast open plains
Nobody wants that but faggots.

Just watch Outward sell a million copies
enjoy your Samurai Souls rehash :^)

Damn horseshoes!

>posting memes is posting arguments
lol

The issue isn't that the compass leads you to where you're supposed to go, the issue is that the game is built around you using the compass.

Skyrim for an example, like the OP image. NPCs don't say "Speak to the witch in the woods, you can find her hut by following the road leading northeast out of town until it comes to a stop, then you turn west and keep walking until you see a massive tree, the witch lives inside of it." they say "Speak to the witch in the woods"

If NPCs still gave proper directions that allowed playing the game without the compass, it wouldn't be an issue. But they don't.

A million faggots buying the game doesn't stop it from being made for faggots.

>just speak to the witch nigga *marks witch on the map*
Sounds easier for the devs

Cautiously hyped.

No one said otherwise, how is that a good thing though?

>I like wasting time and getting lost

Said nobody ever, especially in a sandbox type game

>"Speak to the witch in the woods"
not true. they tell you where to go. the marker is just the crutch.
>they literally saythings like "go find x which is in/around y"

Yikes, retards like you should stick to sony movies.

>Playing western shit

>yikes

What are insinuating here? I said it's easier for them cause they're lazy..

They don't though, games like Skyrim rely HEAVILY on the marker guiding the player and NPCs give extremely vague directions if any. Hell, yesterday while playing Skyrim VR I ran into that exact thing, talked to an NPC, he told me to "go to the shrine of Peyrite" and that was it, no directions, nothing.

Ummm, sweetie? This is Yea Forums, we need to act as contrarian as we can to earn cred points....

>I don't value exploration at all and get bored if I haven't been in combat for 5 seconds

Fuck off to fortnite and quit ruining games

You can use the better quest descriptions mod, it's not a perfect fix but the world isn't that copypaste and actually has some things involving environmental landmarks like the treasure maps.

>i like walking around for 30 minutes before I get in a 5 sec gameplay sequence and repeat this over and over again
>calls others out for liking a BR game
OH THE IRONY

RDR2 has it so that when you have your HUD off, NPCs actually give you specific directions.. In your opinion, do you believe RDR2 did RPG good?

NOOOOOOO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND I HAVE FUN WHEN I GET LOST AND TAKE HOURS TO FIND MY DESTINATION
YOU ARE LITERALLY AN SJW

BR is a highly streamlined version of stuff like DayZ and if you think Fortnite is "too slow" then there's really no salvation for you, the game literally forces you to constantly move and fight.

RDR2 isn't an RPG, but I really liked it. Probably GOTY 2018 for me, and the best cowboy simulator. Only negative was that it was console exclusive which meant that the gunplay sucked raw dick, but everything else was stellar.

This but unironically.

>he takes hours to follow basic directions

I guess all that compass handholding rotted your brain.

NPCs give directions no matter what, even then this only applies to missions where you're driving carts, every other mission is hold A to autorun with NPCs to your destination.

Better than pretending to dislike objective markers when you don't even play games anymore because you prefer to roleplay as a jaded, veteran videogame master on Yea Forums

Don't you mean improve?

This is why you write down every NPC name you encounter and document where to find him, so you immediately know where they are when you need them you dickhead.

>zoomzoom is so sheltered and never played anything decent that he thinks people need to "pretend" to dislike a cancerous feature because he doesn't know any better
Ignorance is bliss I guess.

Everything besides the Morowind approach is unrealistic and should be forbidden desu

>skyrim
>as if oblivion didn't have a compass
ZOOMER DETECTED
O
O
M
E
R

Attached: bd8.png (588x427, 230K)

I'm playing a game right now user, and there's plenty stuff being released that appeals to me. How is it unfathomable to you that someone can legitimately dislike a popular game mechanic? Do you love literally every single popular game mechanic, and don't think any of them detract from the experience? Do you have no personal preference?

I've played games longer than you've been out of your mom's hairy pussy, but nice try.

Not that guy, Fortnite and contemporaries do have a lot of down time where you're just walking around. There is a time and place for stuff like that but I don't want it in my casual multiplayer games.

Zoomer genocide now.

>make low intelligence character
>maps that get revealed are super scuffed and unreliable
Does any game do this?

I'd honestly love a game that gives you a map that looks like it's been made by Jorji Costava.

>make low intelligence character
>GPS and quest markers turn on

I find it as unfathomable as you not understanding that having objective markers doesn't necessarily make a game shitty.

this, but unironically

You can still have the zoomzoom kind of fun but yeah objective markers objectively destroy the exploration and spatial aspects of a game, no question about this.

It makes a game worse in my opinion, because it's a core mechanic I really dislike, doesn't necessarily make the game shitty or unplayable. But keep strawmanning, who knows what opinion you'll attribute to me next?

>3 buzzwords in a single sentence
You are really grasping at straws here.
Wanting objective markers gone won't turn back time, it won't make you likable or relive the glorious teenage years of sitting alone in your room playing games with absurd quest directions, but it's ok because you have no responsibilities.

>strawman the whole thread
>cry when someone pokes fun at you for your opinions
lol

Wrong since there are good games without quest markers coming out nowadays, you are trying to argue against simple objective facts because you have no taste and is irrational.

But user there's new games being released with proper direction and less compass focus right now, it's a fucking trend, it's great

Nice projecting though, how much longer do you have before mommy calls you down for food?

lol samefag af
What are these great modern games without markers? Humor me.

>soulshit ripoff combat #3477
hard pass

hardcore rpgs like assassins creed odyssey

I guess all games should have true and totally not janky-ass shit combat like ELEX.

No. It´s still the best RPG ever made.
>but muh difficulty
Then stick the joystick up your ass and call your mother for a higher challenge.
You´re stomped to death by everything just for daring to use the roads instead of fast-travelling. They learned how to make RPGs since Daggerfall and there isn´t even NO OTHER SIMILAR GAME TO COMPARE, so you will stop being a faggot.

>16 sec apart
>samefag

Someone posted a few earlier, isn't it great that there's video games for both sides of the camp, both people who want to beat as many games in as short a time as possible, and people who want to immerse themselves?

I guess all games should just copy Dark Souls combat then, oh wait lots already do

Oblivion's compass is smaller than Skyrim's, so it's easier to miss places unless you're constantly looking around you.

>retard doesn't know how to count time
>expects me to listen to him
Dude you are so mad

It does look a bit too rip-offy but what really triggers me in that video is how fucking long the hit-stops are, it looks stuttery as all hell and the devs failing to notice these obvious details puts me off.

You don't have to listen to anyone, fact is that there's games being released for both camps, so thinking compass objective markers is a bad mechanic clearly isn't a super uncommon opinion

>make low intelligence character
>Damage Intelligence spells don't work on you

>Yeah, just turn the hud off, you fucking retard
Just turn off the obviously shit game, instead.

I don't even give a shit about markers in games. I just want to see anti-markerfags squirm under intense questioning.

What I don't understand is why Bethesda doesn't give the option to turn off location markers in the game menu. I mean, floating markers can already be disabled, so why not give the player more customization options?

>intense questioning
But all you've been doing is spout buzzwords, strawman and project. That's literally your entire reply chain, there's no "intense questioning" going on here

the real tragedy of modern RPGs is linear as fuck quests in an open world game

Attached: 1548093642324.jpg (1440x953, 449K)

Markerbabbies were always blown the fuck out in this thread and all threads before it, it's more of an education camp than a discussion thread.

>deflecting this hard
I'm not the one posting wojaks here

Because then they'd have to write and voice npcs giving directions

that issue goes beyond RPGs, pretty much all GTA games suffer of this, all Ubishit games do as well

The only wojaks in the thread are some dude from 2 hours ago, are you telling me you've been "intensenly questioning" for over 2 hours on a weekday? Weren't you shitposting about responsibility earlier?

You can disable it in the .ini or with mods, you can disable everything including how the camera is centered on you when you open the map, you can also use something like the map item mod so you don't even use the menu map, it works nicely with survival mods.

because the world and quests aren't designed to be played with the hud off

>implying I can't do other shit while btfo'ing retards on Yea Forums
You are really, really reaching here.

I'm sure you're being productive bud, give mommy a kiss for me alright? I'm off to play some DMC

>tfw there's actually working TES3mp now
>It actually works pretty much flawlessly, apart from things that just aren't implemented yet

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 had the worst quest / sidequest marker. It would actually stay in front of you even if you turned over 90 degrees left or right. You actually can't ever trust the bar at the top of the screen.

based and redpilled

>shitposter plays shit games
bye fag, reply to me again when you want to get proven wrong about your shitty opinions

kind of a weird selling point, but still looks pretty good.

The compass is infinitely better than a minimap

Is there any recently modern open world game that does world exploration like Morrowind?

BotW has better exploration than Morrowind, that tries to hide its small size behind extremely low walking and running speeds and stamina

Morrowind Vague directions in a useless journal.
Skyrim Let me point on your map.

Yes there is a clear winner in this argument.

Is it fun

The foyadas and travel system were also designed to mask how tiny Morrowind was.

>lolno
Hit me up when you think of an actual argument, faggot

>In fact the map doesn't even tell you where you are
based

>Literally YEARS worth of content
>No icons/nav help whatsoever
>Quest descriptions are often vague and only lead you to a certain area, then make you figure the rest out
>Extremely long side quest chains that have meaningful stories and worthwhile rewards
>One of the largest, most immersive, most lively game worlds ever created
WoW classic can't come soon enough.

With limited fast travel and relatively slow travel speed, it was still the best option for a game like The Witcher

Cant wait for this to be massively underwhelming and disappointing with a handful of hardcore autists on here that will keep shilling it because apparently "tedious, slow and ouright boring" means "Deep, atmospheric and interesting" now. Just like they did to Red Dead 2

You would be right if Rockstar's game design and forced gameplay sequences weren't so repugnant.
Also Micah was by far the best character in terms of what being an outlaw is. Sadie a shit.

Wish I could turn back time..

Attached: 1539141374673.jpg (470x364, 49K)

Low int characters in Arcanum get really shitty journal notes iirc

>be zoomer
>enjoy morrowind more
should I just accept my fate?
*crack*

that makes you a boomer retard

cry more

I have been shilling this game to my friends for weeks now. I even sold most of my expensive dota items to pay for it. I really really fucking hope it doesn't shit the bed at launch like so many other titles do. I will purchase this game, but depending on its quality on launch is if I wait a year to buy it or when release.

>if you turn it off you dont know where to go
it gets marked on your map so you can follow that to make sure you are going in the right way
>but muh hand hold
morrowind had a map

yes, just turn it off. dumb or something?

>get killed by an imp in the tutorial because none of of my weapons can harm it and i only have enough mana to cast one damage spell
nice game

Not really an rpg (although it has way more rpg elements than a big part of the games who claim to be part of the genre), but RDR2 had quests that were built that you could solve them without any quest marker, they mention the locations and then you look at the map, see the location and ride to it.

It get's way to less credit for the fact that it is one of the very rare examples of being a modern day game that tried to be immersive in the right way.

reminds me of how i played oblivion

I've wanted to play Daggerfall for a while, but I hear the random generation is absolute trash and ruins the game.

>Saying the legitimate reason in a stupid way invalidates it
You'd make a fantastic lawyer

>ruins sense of adventure forever

Attached: 1*mn5_KZpz78nPS4EuYbrjXQ.jpg (895x691, 194K)

you need to discover those first and not pick them up dumbass

>read a billboard in town
>"discover"

JUST

>american analogy

Stop bitching about about games you've never played.

At least the intent is there.

The thing ruining RPGs are consoles. Nowadays so called "RPGs" are just shitty wannabe action games, instead of tactical party based combat.

Very skeptical

witcher 3 had more sense of adventure than 90% of other rpg games put together.

putting an icon on the map means literally nothing.
you only know that there's a chest in an area for example.
you still have to cross the monster infested swamp, go through woods and climb up a rocky patch to reach that area, only to find a tower there, despite not even knowing whats waiting for you inside.

if you really think walking around aimlessly and just randomly stumbling upon things is "adventure" then you have literally 0 idea of what the term actually means.

Is there?
If its implemented absolutely terribly and does literally nothing, to a point that even die hard fans call it shit, can you really say the intent is there?
I think the only intention there was to bait in people who legitimately want to explore.

Like me. I fell for it and I'm still fucking furious about it.

Maybe RPGs are the wrong genre for you, buddy.

Don't bother user.
Most posts complaining about TW3 are from butthurt Gothic and other obsolete RPG fanboys who cannot deal with the fact that their outdated approach of solving generic fetch quests in different ways, has rightfully been forgotten by the industry.

>witcher 3 had more sense of adventure than 90% of other rpg games put together.
too bad witcher 3 wasn't an rpg, but an interactive movie

sorry that I prefer life user

Congratulations on the worst post in terrible thread.
Did you conciously think that you're just gonna shitpost or was it an automatic reaction?

Breath of the Wild unironically does this.

>shitpost
Except I'm just stating facts.
You don't have any build variety in witcher 3, no freedom of choice, you can't play an evil character, a thief, nothing, only this ugly witcher gaylord

The game is also full of annoying cutscenes, like a fucking movie. The combat is braindead buttonmashing for retards, where even on the hardest difficulty you easily can cheese enemies.

It's much more like an action adventure than an actual RPG.

I would be much more likely to visit and explore an island in the middle of nowhere if I didn't know in advance that all that awaited me was busywork and fetch quests.

>text boxes that pause the game world are lore friendly

>tfw you did all the markers

Attached: 0.jpg (480x360, 12K)

>Turn off the compass. The dialog changes and the NPCs give you better directions.
This isn't true at all.

>Except I'm just stating facts.
user but I didnt even bother reading further.
The "movie game" meme is already embarassing enough but calling Witcher one, is just plain retarded.

I seriously doubt that.
Especially in regards to TW3.

>turn off compass
>NPC could be anywhere in a fucking 10 mile radius
Skyrim isn't Breath of the Wild, dummie.

Bethesda is essentially retarded and managed to make the same game 10 items without improving anything beyond graphics and voice acting. I'm 500% sure their new "Skyrim in the future" game will have the EXACT same problems.

Attached: getaloadofthisguycam.jpg (776x602, 98K)

>I would be much more likely to visit and explore an island in the middle of nowhere if I didn't know in advance that all that awaited me was content
what did he mean by this?

>>NPC could be anywhere in a fucking 10 mile radius
whats the matter? I thought you love figuring thngs out on your own?
why not make your own pen and paper journal with comments on where to find npcs?

>why not make your own pen and paper journal with comments on where to find npcs?
Probably because that sounds absolutely retarded and not as fun as having an intuitive world like Breath of the Wild.

To be fair Skyrim was a lot better than Oblivion in general with more identifiable NPCs and areas, Skyrim 2 is probably going to be a quest marker-ridden piece of shit again but nothing some mods can't fix.

>NPC could be anywhere in a fucking 10 mile radius
you can turn off the compass and still let quest NPCs have markers that you can see when the NPC becomes visible

>content
It's only content the first time you do it, the next 100 times is just zero effort filler

Isn’t there a mod for Skyrim that makes the quest logs more descriptive so you can find where you need to go without using quest markers? I remember hearing something about a mod like that.

The written direction given in Morrowind where completely atrocious sometimes.
>getting stuck searching for Kwama mine No. 231 with 10m fog distance
Weren't my fondest memories of the game. Quest marker brings its own problems but if used conservatively it's a good design.

Level scaling did more damage to RPGs because retardes think a player at level one should have an easier time against the final boss than a level 50.

I'm too retarded to navigate the map in ARMA 3 without the ingame GPS so I guess it's just BRAINLET O'CLOCK

Attached: eng.jpg (176x287, 8K)

>tips fedora

Thank you. Fuck level scaling.