Why are dragon types so fucking all-around OP?

That's the joke.

Ice mons are, in general, so ridiculously underpowered along with most Ice moves being weak that there is usually no reason to ever run them. Especially with how insanely strong Fairy stuff is.

no thats bug or psychic
ice is just a bad type to be because its terrible defensively, its top tier as an attack
bug and psychic are both bad to be and bad moves to use

Poison is the best type, debate me.

>Good fucking job single-handedly ruining an entire franchise, dragonfags
>Stillcaring about a series aimed at kids that rehash most of their games

The absolute state of soibois

>tfw most of the competitive scene revolved around dragons spamming outrage at each others
What went wrong?

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>earthquake

>ice and rock moves are great offensive moves
>ice and rock types are terrible defensive types
>make a majority of ice and rock defensively oriented
NICE.

...

considering my number one strat to bother my friends is "toxic/protect/healing move/status move", I can't argue

>spamming outrage
>fairies
You wot m8t?

>fucking all-around OP?
and they literally got okh from an ice cream or a gay eevee
KEK

>worst type beats op type
seems OK to me

One of the real problems is that moves like ice beam are available on pretty much every water pokemon ever, so the only trade-off for being a shitty ice type is a 50% buff on a move that's going to be 2x or 4x effective when you use it anyway. The fact that freeze is the most neglected status doesn't help either.

Only because they refuse to make good ice types.

>no reason to run ice moves

Retard, ice defensivly is shit. Most ice types are garbage because they are slow and defensive, but offensive ice is one of the best attacking types

just tm hem a offensive move dipwad

Yeah, because spamming Blizzard with Vanilluxe is the most viable strategy out there, right? I agree that Fairies are too good, however.

>le rock paper scissor face

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Remember when psychic was the shit?
Dark came and fucked it sideways, but to be fair, what fucking business did Gen 1 have making the only ghost pokemon all also be poison and making the only ghost move suck ass? Even pin missile was shit, especially since you could only get it on beedrill which was also poison as well or jolteon, who wasn't that great with it, IIRC.

>bug/grass
Has any other mon been so utterly FUCKED?

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SnS legends will be Fairy/Dragon and Steel/Dragon.

>outspeeds you
>toxic

>two wolves on the emblems
Yeah, we'll see about that.

>tfw Icefag and Rockfag
This fucking blows

Ask why the Ice type is fucking broken. All these weaknesses to common types, holy shit. And then most of them are slow with high defense which doesn't matter when everything hits you with a 2x multiplier.

pokemon was never about type balanced. Types like Dragon/Psychic/Ghost/Dark were always favored (OP Pokemon, Elite 4/late gyms users, large amount of legendaries), while types like Rock, Bug an Flying are clearly the plebbest types (early gyms, bad pokemons and moves)

>Ice is not only not super effective against Water, Water is also resistant to Ice
What is the logic behind this?

Didn't Paras get Dry Skin one generation that made their Fire weakness even worse?

Outside of ice bejng shit if you just offered them earlier it would be fine in game.

You always get them like 7th badge or so and they are either slow as shit or havr no defensive options

Mamoswine and Weavile are exceptions.

Yes, 8x to Fire. An ember could kill it

Can't let you have that OP Freeze that early in the game. It would trivialize the boss fights. You know... In a children's RPG series where all fights are easily trivialized just by type-countering.

Pokemon's most creative type chart aspect is probably splitting Earth shit into Rock and Ground type. It's biggest bed shitter is giving Fire a bajillion resistances and Ice only itself.

>we will never have pokeman games as good as gen5 ever again

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dragon types are kino

If they were ever going to redo the types chart again it wouldhave been in gen 6 when they added fairy, but they didnt. And gen 6 was a mediocre game, gen 7 wasnt good either

GF is missing so much untapped potential by not making games target their older, loyal fans that are looking for more of a challenge and depth

Is OP stupid? Dragons have been on a downward swing for years now. With ice moves being absolutely everywhere, especially being available to water types with them being the most versatile type in the game, and fairy hard countering them, and steel types being all over the place. Dragons have never had to work harder than nowadays

Lol I forgot freeze was a status

They're balanced by being rare and hard to train

Fire having all of those resistances mean nothing when the things that resist aren't common attacking types. The most often seen offensive types of its resistances are fairy and sometimes bug and ice. And those ice moves are used by water types which fire is weak to. As a matter of fact water, Rock, and ground are all extremely common offensive types. Which means fire can't just do whatever it wants to do and have to rely on its teammates to clear those out first or keep a coverage move to deal with them. Usually hidden power grass or solar beam if you have access to drought

It comes in handy

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fug

>In a children's RPG series where all fights are easily trivialized just by type-countering.
Which wouldn't be such a problem if game freak would allow NPCs to switch and not keep them locked to monotype teams

You fuckers be glad that shit like touhoumon types aren't common place.
>2x weakness to "normal" type moves (renamed beast in the hack)
>everyone and their dog has tackle in the early-game
FUCKING BULLSHIT

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I have seen them switch a few times recently in a GBA game, but yeah, they need to be more on the ball with what they use.

Dragon was intended as a late game reward for having found a rare Pokémon. This is also why Charizard and Gyarados weren’t dragon.

It wouldn't even be hard especially if game freak actually remembered that abilities exist in these games.

>Swimmer sent out Goldeen
>Player sent out Pikachu
>Game detects that Player selected Thunderbolt
>Swimmer switched in Lanturn
>Pikachu used Thunderbolt
>Lanturn restored HP with Volt Absorb

charizard wasnt dragontype because dragon was a bad type due to the limitations of gen 1.
He was fully intended to become a dragontype later on

source is from bulbapedia interview translations

>PokeMMO predicts the dragon issue after they decide to add Unova
>Keeps Outrage at 90 BP, nerfs Draco to 130 BP and limits its access so Hydreigon doesn't get it.
>Doesn't release Latios/Latias.
Dragons are still fairly decent but aren't bumfuck retarded. Gamefreak should have just nerfed their moves instead of adding a more cancerous type.

To be fair allowing Charizard to completely ignore the most common ground move in the game is a massive boon for him

gen5
KEK

The problem with that is there would need to be some sort of limitation on switching for the AI. Otherwise it would end up leading to the AI choosing to switch to it's better type'd mon every other turn making battles take way too long.

Fairy is only cancerous because it resists the most common attacking types. They're glaringly week to poison and steel but who is using steel as an offensive type?

A bad type? Even back when it didn’t have any real attacks, it had fucktons of resistances (including all the starter types). Dragon seemed to be “congrats on Dratini!”, the whole game was balanced around single player.

post the chart?

>diverse pokemon and most new pokemon introduced since gen 1
>hard more thats perfect for nuzlocke
>even more varried areas with deserts, snowy mountains, beaches, water, cities, you name it
>non linear (in the remake)
>good story by pokemon standards

Yeah Im kekking alright, no other generation even comes close

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Just make it so the AI only switches 50% of the time. Just enough to teach new players that hey this is an option that exists and hey you're not mandated to strictly use moves that match a Pokemon's type. Coverage moves are important in these games even if STAB is just as important

I’ll be honest, I don’t know if it is autism or what but neither as a kid nor as an adult do I like the idea of my Pokémon knowing super off type moves like Earthquake and Toxic. It makes things seem samey.

Then again, as a kid I beat the Elite 4 with a Ho-oh who knew Sacred Fire, Fire Blast, Flamethrower and Fly so I don’t know what I’m talking about.

My starter by the way.
thpp.supersanctuary.net/wiki/Chibi_Sanae

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I was there. I was unironically running a Charizard who knew flamethrower, fire blast, fire spin, and ember of all things. And you figure I would have learned my lesson but in generation 2 I was running Typhlosion with the same thing except exchange Ember for flame wheel. But it's just because it didn't look right teaching them toxic or something. So fine I guess I understand.

>Dragon-types
>OP
OH NO NO NO NO NO

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if it was just dark being added itd probably be fine
it was dark, and steel, and the amnesia nerf, and the special split, and shadow ball, and etc

then as time went on the power creep just kept hitting and psychic types always got the shaft because gamefreak are clowns and dont realize it hasnt been a powerhouse type in like 5 gens
also fairy went and kinda stole their biggest upside in the fighting matchup which was pretty bullshit

Fairy's biggest problem is its spammability. Moonblast is such a spammable move it's disgusting, also Pixilate Hyper Voice/Return were near Outrage BP without any of its drawbacks before its nerfs. Play Rough is actually mediocre but its best users have Huge Power anyways so it doesn't matter.
Also the legendary Fairy mons are a whole new level of cancer but not simply because of Fairy.

>dude dragon is so OP we should make a type to counter it
>even though bulky water types are fucking everywhere and they can ice beam them up the asshole
>introducing: gay shit fairy type
>strong against: every single good type, IMMUNE TO FUCKING DRAGONS
>weak against: useless shit offensive types nobody runs coverage for like poison and steel
and that's how competitive mons died

How are ghosts in the meta shit
I love them and want an all spook team

Dragon Types have awful STABs though.
Their stats typically are pretty high, but their typing is only good defensively.

Just keep making new types that counter good types until shit types become good :^)

Mostly irrelevant, there's only 2 goot ones that aren't banned for one reason or another.

lol nigga is drier than ops moms pussy

Bug and Ice need a buff so bad.

Deerfuck is the reason why I always keep a prankster on my team. Though it did give me a really funny replay one time

> was playing on Wi-Fi against a full legendary team because is there anything else on Wi-Fi?
> opponent had used a bad move and I was planning on locking him into it with prankster whimsicott
> use encore but to my surprise he actually switches into Xerneas
> well he knows I'm running prankster encore so he's probably just going to kill me rather than set up geomancy
> he uses geomancy + red herb anyway
> sit there for a second and Marvel at his stupidity
So I kept him in geomancy until leech seed killed him

ghost as a type is fine
theres just not that many good ghost types and they all kinda step on each others toes

Yes goy, buff my mega scizor.

How would you fix standard weak types?

What meta? In VGC you see Lunala everywhere, but since Incineroar is also omnipresent, you can't really use them. In Smogon OU, I don't think there are many Ghost types at all.

Are you saying that people don't run fighting and psychic moves?

Uhhhhh whats the point of this thread?

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This paragraph was Greek to me.

No, I'm saying nobody in their right mind runs unstabbed poison and steel moves.

>SLOW
>FRAIL
>ICE
Why do you this meme a thing?

Its a not a cunny thread for sure so im out.

Complaining about the balancing decisions made by Game Freak? Nothing lewd.

That's because gamefreak retroactively ruined them. said it best, Ghost types tend to do the same thing so you end up just using the best one. Electric type has the same problem. Ghost types used to be super popular since everyone needed rapid spin to get rid of Stealth Rock and ghost was immune to it. But then defog got its buff and ghost-type wasn't as necessary. So then you say well Ghost type counters physical attackers so they're still fine but then knock-off got its buff and every single fighting type now carries it just in case. So now Ghost type it's just another special attacker. Not even popular since they only counter psychic types and themselves. Game freak just keeps doing that, power creep is out of control now

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You don't need stab to run Toxic, my dude.

>Game detects that Player selected Thunderbolt
That'd just be a bullshit move, though. Detecting the player's upcoming attack type defeats the purpose of having a variety of moves to cover a range of weaknesses. You'd find yourself arranging a moveset that did standard damage to the largest number of things to avoid swap outs or cheesing the system by having a move to force a strong enemy to swap out when playing your weakness.
If opponents reacted to the type(s) associated to your active Pokemon, that would make sense, but a bunch of mind-reading trainers? Nah.

I didn't know toxic was super effective against fairies you dipshit.

>mega scizor
Bugs are very dependent on the second typing to be good, scizor lucked out having steel as it's second type. There is only a few other types that go good with bug.

Pokenon has never been balanced and never will be

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She's so cute in that dress I want to fug her

>Almost every final evo's BST is between 500-580
The final team variety that this fan hack can get is nothing short of astounding.
What's the point of having 700 pokemon if you can't use your favorite one because their stats suck ass?

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Toxic is SE against everything bar Steel, Poison and Pokémon with Magic Guard/Bounce.

Gen 4 was peak balance after the Garchomp ban.

This. Most top tier special attackers either have access to Blizzard and Ice Beam, or run HP Ice alongside their moveset. And the strongest dragons are almost always x4 weak to Ice.

there are better excrutiating ways to kill Xerneas

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I mean, duh. Doesn’t mean people won’t complain.

you can run nonstab gunk shot or sludge bomb/wave
those are the only good ones though, and its not because of typing, its because theres no other moves from those things that really exceed 80bp, so its worthless as monocoverage

like simple math, a 100+ bp stab move against a neutral type vs an 80 bp nonstab against a 2x weak: ebp of 150 vs 160
theres no reason to waste an entire moveslot on something like that unless you cant actually hit what you want with your stab

why would garchomp ever want to poison jab an azumarill when he could just eq and instead run like swords dance in that slot instead

Gamefreak doesn't into balance. Grass and Ice are still dogshit and most pokemon running said moves are OTHER types trying to get better coverage or counter specific pokemon. Furthermore most of the grass and ice type pokemon can't even carve out a niche themselves as the pokemon they attempt to counter have easy access to coverage moves themselves (water having ice; ground having rock).

>shedinja in a stealth rock meta
the amount of team building around it you have to do to make him viable is what's excruciating
and he has 0 offensive presence anyway so they can switch around in his face all day

> Gets the flinch 6 times in a row
Ah yeah what a competitive game
True

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In English Xerneas signature move is geomancy which doubles all of its attacking stats and its speed. It is allegedly balanced by the fact that it takes two turns to use what you figure would be a death sentence for it since most Pokemon can kill in that time. But there's an item called red herb that turns 2 turn moves like solar beam or geomancy into one turn moves. Which means that just by clicking geomancy with Xerneas you can potentially wipe entire teams. Xerneas is one of the most frightening new legendary Pokemon second only to Mega Rayquaza or Dusk Mane Necrozma. It's ridiculous.

There are ways around it but they are annoyingly specific. One way I use is to keep a Pokemon with the ability prankster. Prankster ensures that you always go first no matter how slow you are. It only loses to extreme speed or dark types. So I use the move encore. Encore forces you to use the move that you use the last for three turns. And since he already used his red herb for the first geomancy that means he's trapped using a setup move that can't hurt me. So I can take my time killing him until he gets annoyed he either switches out or lets Xerneas die

>mfw I corner a Kyogre with Sheddy boy
>mfw I get bodied by a team entirely oriented around keeping a shedinja alive with swapping, shielding, and status blocking
felt good even losing, that's fucking skill

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Ice beam is one of the best moves in the game
You just don’t want to be ice type

Ah. I guess items don’t actually get used up on WiFi battles? I wouldn’t want to use a consumable on a rando fight online. I feel like shit like that was clearly balanced with single player in mind where using it actually meant stuff. But that’s a good story.

Remember when Gamefreak decided to give legendary mega's to make them even more broken instead of giving them to forgottenmon like octillery and ursaring

It's both, poison is just a weak type especially because it does nothing the best and most prevalent defensive type.
Now people HAVE to slot some kind of poison/steel coverage because fairies are so strong they demand answers, but it wasn't a thing before the tapus started shitting everywhere.
Obviously the fact that there's no spammable poison beam doesn't help.

It's good offensively but not defensively. Hence why Greninja is the best Ice Type around, it can change into something less shitty after using STAB Ice Beam

Someone give me a gif/webm of her animation when you challenge her as champion. The one where she roars like a dragon. Cute as hell.

Yeah but with USUM a defog tutor it’s much easier to work around

Togekiss wasn't even that great.

I think the only good ice types out of 800 plus Pokemon are Weavile, Kyurem black, or Kyurem white. And using Weavile is a very dangerous game because if you are ever wrong that's a dead teammate. Ice type just sucks and gamefreak doesn't care about it

Pokemon was never about balance.

Octillery is like my second favorite Pokémon of all time. I love that it basically learns every single shooting move.

Mamoswine is good.

Yeah it defintely the glass canon type yet GF keeps on making SLOW BULKY ICE TYPES

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Iris is my wife

Not gonna lie even with 3 defoggers I'd never run shedinja without mega sableye.

>such a cool design wasted on a giant shitmon
Thanks GF. Thanks for Aggron too.

A-Ninetails is good but that’s mostly because of its ability+reflect/light screen move

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They don't get used online and in battle facilities. If you use consumables outside of those, you can kiss them goodbye.

because the fucking description of Dragons are
>Rare
>Evolve late as fuck
>absurdly powerful afterwards

user, have you been living in a cave since 2012? Are you ok?

I love him too. When i saw they were giving mega's to Mawile an Sableye i thought that mega's would be a way to give some love to some pretty bad and underused pokemon. But nope mega Mewtoo and Rayquasa xd

>DUDE
>WHAT IF WE GIVE THE TYPE WITH TONS ELEMENTAL RESISTENCES
>A SECOND TYPE WITH EVEN MORE RESISTANCES
you can still punch him tho.

True but its still stupid that can happen

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I'd say 5.
>Weavile
>Mamoswine
>Alolan Ninetales
>All three Kyurems
>possibly Frostlass, though very niche

>people unironically think megas are a way to make shitmons better and not fanwank material
There's a reason the first mega you get is fucking Lucario.

> Aggron such a cool looking Pokemon
> 4 x weak to fighting and ground
> fighting and ground types are absolutely everywhere
> a physical wall that can't defend against physical attackers

I hate you Game Freak

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Well the term "Glacial" for something slow exists for a reason.

I mean it can still happen. Fought a Jirachi recently?

Lmao the first Mega you get are the fucking KANTOOOOO starters.

Am I the only one who liked weather wars?

>gets a mega
>it's still shit because it's a wall with no recovery in a regenerator/roost/recover meta
S A S U G A

Eh. Legendaries are always popular. They’re just for the kiddies.

>WOOOW FUCKING MEGA BLASTOISE
>NOW HE CAN DO MEGA JACKSHIT
>Look at Charizard, tho. He gets TWO very powerful megas
As a fucking Blastoisefag I am absolutely nuclear.

No but I miss them

Blastoise would give an enthusiastic back alley blowjob to get access to Shell Smash

I actually tried playing around with it in OU and holy fuck he's useless.
Can't wallbreak, slow, made of cardboard, not even useful as hazard removal because defog is a thing.

Meanwhile Char-y has one fucking switch in in the entire game. Barely.

He means Rachi

>Venuchad
>CHADizard-Y
>CHADizard-X
>shitty Blastoist

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I’m assuming Heatran but it’s still checked by FocusMiss?

Thats kinda my point competetive pokemon kinda sucks because of things like this I dont know how they can fix it though I need more brown lolis

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> Mega launcher only boost moves with the word pulse or Ora in the name

Wow look at all of those Rich attacking options. Like water pulse

I think he means skill egg.

Eventually Blastoise will get shell smash and he will be decent

Its mega will keep it out of NU for a few generations.

>only move that boosts water attacks ends up being marginally better than fucking surf because of confusion
10/10 GF

Yea well that's mons, doesn't matter which meta

Blastoise got Mega Evolution. It can wait in line until Torterra gets shell smash

>It still runs Scald because Scald is the best offensive move in the game.

> scald burns better than fire type moves
Why do water types do everything?

>Water types are better at burning things than fire attacks
>The only status burn move is typically seen as a ghost type move

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Megas and their regular forms can be in completely different tiers. The only exception is Garchomp because he's OU by default and can't go lower just for his Mega. Regular Blastoise and Charizard are still complete laughing stocks.

Chansey, ye
Another mon who has no business existing

Put a drop of water on a shitload of ice. It starts melting the ice.

It has four types that are super effective against it (Fighting, Rock, Steel, Fire)
and only one it resists (Ice)
No other type has more weaknesses, against it, and no other type has only one resistance.
Ice attacks are super effective against four types, but it's not even in the lead there.

You know what happens to water when it's cold? It fucking freezes.

>create evolite because some Pokemon sucked ass with retardly high evolution levels in gen 5
>don’t realize what it would do to older Pokemon who later gained evolutions

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>No other type has more weaknesses
>What are Grass and Rock

man rock is such a garbage type
can you believe they didn't even have stone edge until gen 4

>7 weaknesses
>slow
>bulky
>mixed attacking
>ice type

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Ice and Water should be mutually Super Effective against each other

>still somewhat useful because of ability
Peliper too, and that frog that summons rain. Pretty cool way of making shitmons relevant.

>Ice and Water
>not Ice and Fire

No that would probaby be bug or grass

Ice is right there though

My dream is to get an ice/poison type that's like an icicle snake or some shit, and the idea being that when it bites and poisons something the venom freezes insides the victim's body.

I love Scizor but let's not pretend it doesnt absolutely fucking crutch on the fact that it's steel type as well, which covers literally every weakness bug has, except fire

>stealth rock in a defog meta
you have to go back

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Ice should be super effective on Fire and weak against Fire.

Prove me wrong.

>Ice and Fire

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the reason it's a defog meta is because it's a band-aid one the stealth rock meta

Are you retarded? What do you think Ice turns into when exposed to Fire?

Was there anything more JUST than XY mega banette
>Prankster not activating/counting the turn you transformed

Glad they fixed it though, i always thought i was pretty smart milking both abilities where banette will frisk an enemy mon when he comes out and then i can transform him and then incapacitate anything with a red flag item, i was fucking stunned at how hard that fell apart in XY when it didnt work like i thought. Works now though

Nobody uses Stealth Rock in battlespot, today everyone is packing a Defog.

Turns into water which then puts out the fire
>b-b-but evaporation
Wrong, nigger. The amount of heat it would take to melt the ice, heat it up, then vaporize it is too much for the amount of time it would take.

>battlespot
who cares

Yes. So why the fuck shouldn't Ice and Fire be super effective against each other?

No it doesn't?

>if you fucking melt the opponent they win
the mental gymnastics lol

Oh wait you’re that guy yeah I agree with you.

It's for both reasons though

Sableye and Beedrill are front and center examples of pokemon getting megas for the purpose of improved performance and viability

Shit like Lucario was fanwank though, for sure

>melt your opponent
>die
J U S T

>gurren Lagan memebug
>not fanwank

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Do they grab a bucket of the opponent and pour it on themselves?

>shedinja in a stealth rock meta
1 SRers vs 3 Defoggers?

>he
it

>0 offensive presence anyway so they can switch around in his face all day
Shedinja is made to purely stall, it packs Toxic and Will-o-Wisp everytime.

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>beedrill
>gurren lagann memebug

You sure you're not talking about Genesect or Scizor?

>blast Fire with Ice
>it melts into water on impact which kills the Fire
>blasts Ice with Fire
>it melts into water on impact which kills the Ice

>blast Ice with Fire from a distance via flamethrower
>Ice melts and you’re fine

Bedrill doesn't even have drills. It's Jap name is fucking Spear

I mean, yeah. It's not a big deal for the opponent if pebbles go down, but you need to constantly get them off the field to get any value out of shedinja. And the reward for all this work isn't that great considering he's also weak to very common coverage.

Can Mega Pidgeot have blizzard yet?

>in doubles, have A-Nintails and Kommo-o
>Have A-Ninetails do aurora veil
>Kommo-o does dragon dance once or twice
>enemies taking damage from hail while ninetails and Kommo-o (with overcoat) are immune to it
>Kommo-o blowing shit up with his fists while A-ninetails provides support fire/debuffs

Was a pretty solid duo that came out of SuMo

>blast fire with ice
>fire turns into frostfire
>ice eternally btfo

>reading comprehension

When you set Fire on a Plant, the plant is consumed and the fire grows.
When you set Fire on a Bug, the bug is consumed and the fire grows.
When you use Fire on a Steel plate, the plate melts and the fire keeps like nothing.
When you set Fire on Ice, the ice melts and the fire dies with it.

I don't know I like ghost ones

I challenge Yea Forums to fix hail and make it good

Not sure what memes have to do with it but the fact is that beedrill was shit but now because of megas we have an actually good bug type option

>fire gets FROSTED
>this somehow BTFOs ice

It damages each move

Try setting a steel block on fire and see how that works out for you.

the worst part is that this is still better than the vast majority of /vp/

I think it's because people are actually have an honest discussion about these games rather than endlessly bitching at each other or fapping. Or both.

Stealth rock was GF's biggest mistake. What the fuck were they thinking making such an overpowered move like that?

Yes
Because frostfire is super effective against ice and immune to ice damage
git fucked icefag

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Mega-Abomasnow now gets a super-hail that renders ice types immune to fire and water

is it good yet?

Dragon typing wasn't the problem, it was that the majority of the dragons had good stats

Has Grass ever been in meta? They always seem so weak

stealth rock now deals 12.5% to grounded enemies and 25% to airboirne ones
move is balanced

ice type needs a resistances buff like steel got a resist nerf.
Ice should resist Dragon and Water attacks, that would go a long way to improving ice type pokemon.

Because GF loves that type for whatever reason.

Poison needs some kind of nuke
I just want to use Dragalge, fuck

Grass types were ungodly important for a good while during gen 7 because GF decided it was a fantastic idea to make a ground move that hits airborne pokemon

>be a firefag
>posts what btfos firefags
Not surprised you're a cuck :^)

Lol no kiddo, not at all

doesn't dragalge get sludge wave?

Hey Grandpa, Gen 5 ended 7 years ago. Get with the times.

The problem isn't Stealth Rock in itself. Spikes and even toxic spikes and weather don't get complaints. The problem is that Stealth Rock is the only hazard that takes type effectiveness into account with its damage calculations. Because now every fire, flying, ice, and bug type have to deal with it every time they switch in. And since Pokemon already die in two turns that means it's mandatory to have at least one option to deal with it. It's like if spikes dealt 25% damage in one turn rather than three. And God forbid ground type had it's typing accounted for and it's damage calculation. Because then fire and Rock can never be used again

dragon does not need more resists, dragon is actually a pretty crappy typing which seems way stronger than it actually is courtesy of it having a shitload of high stat 'mons

Ice should resist Flying and Ground

Grass is a lot more important in UU due to so many decent water types taking up that tier.

They were SUPPOSED to be legendarily rare. Like, 1 OR MAYBE 2 per game. In difficult to reach places that take a long time to train and level up.

Then every pokemon gets to be dual-type and there are something like 1000 total that have to keep being super-cool to attract an audience.

how is it not balanced? to grounded pokemon it deals as much as 1 stack of spikes, and airborne pokemon take more to make up for the fact they are immune to spikes AND toxic spikes

>not hatefucking your opponent to submission after beating it despite your type disadvantage
congratulations you just won the faggot of the thread award

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man I loved this guy but he was so bad even in a regular playthrough he couldnt pull his weight

Also grass types being immune to Spore meant that Breloom was checked by other grass types since they weren't affected by its narcotic and it didn't have free Focus punches

does it really not resist flying? for some reason i thought it did at least that much. Flying and ground would be good too, but i really think Ice should resist water, water kind of needs the light nerf anyway.

Huh
Yeah it does
While on the topic what's the strongest Poison move?

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>firecucks want to all be hatefucked by icechads
w e w

There's a focus miss equivalent iirc but just use sludge wave, really.

Fire and bug should really have their own version of stealth rock. something like "ring of fire" and "swarm". Stealth rock's biggest problem is that it's exclusively a rock type move.
Also if they did add multiple they would have to limit it to only one active one at a time. Another nerf they could give stealth rock is an effect duration, make it so it only works for the next 4-5 switch ins or something.

problem is that ice resisting water would make about 0 sense given running water wrecks ice hard
it resisting flying as expanding air cools down things and resisting ground through permafrost would make reasonable sense, at least as far as pokemon goes and ground could do with a nerf (and so could flying really)

Dragons were meant to be boss only types and weren't properly introduced until gen 3 where we got 3 Dragon type families as well as three legendaries. Up until then it was Dragonite and Kingdra and there wasn't even a Dragon type move until Gen 2. Just goes to show how hesitant and slow they were with it until 3d generation.

Stealth rocks and others like it should only work once. It makes no sense that it would last for multiple turns.

Gunk shot but good luck with hitting with it.

They already do this. Not enough mind you, and not to the literal cheating extent that you mentioned, but it does happen. One example
>You are facing Elite 4 Karen (HGSS)
>Karen sends out Vileplume
>You used fire attack
>Vileplume lives
>Next turn
>Karen switches in Houndoom
>You used fire attack
>Houndoom's Flash Fire activates

Granted this situation mostly happens against the higher AI opponents and if the Pokemon can switch into an immunity

Gunk Shot, it's actually kind of an OP move. 120 power 80 acc with a poison chance. so it's a physical hydro pump + a secondary effect.

The water freezes into more ice?

>spend a turn to deal 6 to 12% once at some point
brilliant

fire doesn't need something like that, it's a good offensive typing with widespread good offensive moves (flare blitz type moves are always useful and fire blast has just enough accuracy to be worth it)

Or do what toxic spikes does and is nullified if a rock or steal type comes out to instantly destroys it. Still a gradual weakening might work too. Have it die out all together after the third switch in.

no that's sadly not how physics works, the water melts the ice into more water

As a side it makes me happy that alolan Muk is good. I really want Regional variants to be a standard in the series.

you could say the same about rock. anyway i just picked fire and bug because they have the easiest thematic concepts for a stealth rock style move.

You dont seem to understand certain meta concepts here, a lot of teams and builds operate on variables like ex. (Close Combat + 1 SD stack 1HKOs x big player mons and 2hkos x other big player mons etc.) and stealth rock forcing enemy mons to enter with a health deificit is super good since it allows retarded leeway for that kind of thing or allows you to bypass it entirely

Basically, the enemy's mons all start with missing health, so now, mathematically, i can sweep them all in one hit lmao *dabs on your ability to counterplay because you die before you get to do anything*. Oh you wanted to switch out and adjust strategy? Lelelel now you eat a neutral (attack with damage unmodified by type weakness/resistance) AND a stealth rock, time to finish you off with another neutral lmao, you might have actually gotten me with that move since i lacked proper coverage but too bad i have stealth rock, fag *dabs again*

>dragons

more like victims

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It's a good way to breath new life onto an older pokemon while keeping things fresh. Though I'm still upset Jynx didn't get a hula dancer aloha form.

Poison dark is actually a great typing, the only thing that holds it back is that Game Freak loves giving poison types worse stats than other types for some reason. kind of sad we didn't get an Alolan Weezing with that typing too.. Poison dark with levitate is a fantastic potential combo.

I seriously doubt Pokemon needs to follow physics to such a level

Sublimation wouldn't put the fire out, weakness still stands though.

I'm fucking mad that all the competitive niggers and tourneyfags fucked over the balance by getting Game Freak to cater to them. Dragon (and Psychic for that matter) are supposed to be the strongest type in-universe and now they're both garbage because of you retards. Game should be balanced around lore, not tourneyfaggotry.

>Though I'm still upset Jynx didn't get a hula dancer aloha form.
I never considered this. And now I'm really fucking angry

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and? the meta would change, certain pokemon would become more useful, others less useful but at least it wouldn't arbitrarily shit on a bunch of typings
most walls already take 12.5% from the rocks anyways

>chokes out the fire and starves it of oxygen
:^)

Why is psychic supposed to be the most powerful type when it's just the special equivalent to fighting

Because telekinesis is overpowered as fuck? What's your bitch ass gonna do about some psychic who's tossing you around like a helpless ragdoll?
>special equivalent to fighting
no.

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Even fucking XY does it.
>the 2 times i use a Grass type move in a Pokemon game both Shauna and Diantha switch to their Goodra

fairy type was a mistake.

Theoretically throw a bug move at it if bug didn't suck back then. Seriously what was Gamefreaks problem with bug type? The most powerful bug type move in the game pin missile and it was only accessible by Beedrill who irredeemably suck and Jolteon who has no business using it

make fairy weak to fire and it's balanced

Bug type is supposed to be shit. Or at least it was, before tourneyfags fucked it up.

>an entire typing that isn't supposed to be used

Yeah Galo Sengan

This. Pokémon was not supposed to be balanced.
But type was the designated early game type. They evolved early, but plateaued hard. That was that type's thing.

Yes that's why bug got one of the most powerful moves in the game as already as gen 2 right?

Remember when your retarded post makes no sense since 50% of existing megas were given to crap mons?

Except that doesn't just affect tournament Players. Because it sure would be unfortunate if a player actually like Beedrill or venomoth but find out they can't use them because their typing was made intentionally bad. In early game Pokemon aren't exclusive to bug type

>dragonfags still mad about fairy
fairy type surely was one of the best decisions

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There were no tournament players when Gen1 was developed. They didn't give a shit about any of that.
Bugs were supposed to be weak the same way the early game monsters you'd encounter in other RPGs are weak. Except you could catch them.

Well it did change which is why we have defog up the butt

I always found it odd Venemoth learned a lit of psychic moves but was not psychic itself.

Crap improvement Megas
Kangaskhan
Mawile
Manectric
Banette
Absol
Abomasnow
Beedrill
Pidgeot
Sableye
Camerupt
Altaria
Lopunny
Audino

Neutral Megas
Venusaur
Charizard x2
Blastoise
Pinsir
Ampharos
Houndoom
Gardevoir
Aggron
Medicham
Slowbro
Steelix
Sceptile
Swampert
Sharpedo
Glalie
Gallade

Making powerful 'mons even better
Alakazam
Gengar
Gyarados
Aerodactyl
Mewtwo x2
Scizor
Heracross
Tyranitar
Blaziken
Garchomp
Lucario
Salamence
Metagross
Latias
Latios
Rayquaza
Groudon
Kyogre

Mawile and Togekiss getting fairy typings was the greatest change that came with fairy type

It’s as easy as not letting early ice type moves freeze.

More types that cuck good types while getting fucked by shit types should exist.

>an entire typing that isn't supposed to be used
It is meant to be used. Early in the game, that is. See

fun fact: early game ice moves cannot actually cause frozen
the ice moves that can cause frozen status are
Blizzard
Ice Beam
Freeze Dry
Ice Punch
Ice Fang
Freezy Frost

Nips have an obsession with Dragons and think that not only are they the coolest shit ever they also should be the best shit ever in whatever medium they're in

If you ever played Yugioh then remember Dragon Rulers as the proof for that statement amongst various other Dragon-ish things being incredibly nuisances

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Why is Kangaskhan bad? It turned it into one of the most dangerous Pokemon of Gen 6. Same deal with Mawile. And manectric is Jolteon/ Raikou except good. Lopunny and Sableye and Beedrill desperately needed those Megas and all three are decent now.

They are right though. Dragons are the peak fictional lifeform.

Don't forget they made Dragon Rulers 2.0

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> Ampharos
> anything other than bad

I mean his hair is nice but why give it mold breaker? Who is using electric attacks on anything with lightning rod?

Pokemon games were designed as RPGs first, with competitive balance not a factor.
Dragons were the rare endgame powerhouses that were difficult to find and train, and they were even more fearsome as some of the final and most powerful bosses of the game.

They still have this role in subsequent games, but the need for balancing for competitive and casual multiplayer has thrown everything out of whack in this series. Dragons have to simultaneously be monsters that are highly sought after and awesome in single player, and not overpowered in multiplayer. Their strategy for this problem has been to just make more and more counters to each new dragon mon, but it's just not enough to balance a type that is inherently meant to be endgame bosses.

Kangaskhan without the mega was plain bad, it's ability as a mega is downright broken to make up for it
Mawile was also really bad and it to got a busted ability to make up for it
Manectric used to be Jolteon/Raikou but was slower (aka terrible)

>Humans
>not the best at everything

Bugs were designed around being useful early game (because of early evolutions) then being left behind. They were never meant to be balanced.

>people saying bug = early game

are we conveniently forgetting Pinsir and Scyther exist?

Remember when you didn't do the math and embarrassed yourself faggot?

Lol? Humans are shit and extremely boring.

Ampharos wasn't good but it was better than everything things on the "plain crap" list

>being a misanthrope cuck

That idea falls apart when you consider that rock type is a hard counter to them and the first gym leader uses rock types.

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Ice is the worst type for a Pokemon to have, even normal is better.

No resistances aside to itself, weak to fighting, rock and fire, three very common attack types. It has zero redeeming qualities as a type for a Pokemon to be, however Ice is a very useful attack type. So you want ice attacks for coverage, but you don't EVER want to actually be ice type.

How did i embarass myself? That guy proved me right if anything, and he got stuff wrong too since half of the second category was also part of the first category's shittiness of their original form.

Retard.

....except when the gym itself has no rock moves and the first bug you find immediately learns a move of the game's most OP type after evolving?

the only ones in the second category that could be described arguably as "crap" would be glalie and ampharos
everything else were perfectly viable pokemon in their own niches

To be fair, Dragons are fucking cool

They're not even real but every person on earth knows what a dragon is

Are we really going to call Sharpedo and Pinsir viable now

I really don't get ice. Dragon makes sense as an endgame powerhouse, but ice is an endgame glass cannon? You go the entire game building up to ice pokemon then you kill them in one hit.

Sharpedo got speed boost, that ability by itself made it a perfectly viable pokemon
And Pinsir had a great attack stat, good set of abilities and good coverage

They were always meant to be a type Reserved to be pseudo legendarny types.
Gamefreak wasn't thinking about balancing when they made gen 1, nor that they could have expected Pokemon to have such a huge competitive scene

Blastoise's Mega evolution sucks. They gave it high special attack when it was never good at attacking in the first place and has a rather mediocre movepool for it.

They gave in an ability that is fucking USELESS on every STAB move it has aside from fucking Water Pulse, which is only 60BP and is still less powerful than Hydro Pump even with the ability boost. The only other two moves it has that benefit from the ability are Dark Pulse and Aura Sphere, so its moveset is extremely predictable too.

Since it now has no item slot its rather decent defensive stats aren't as useful as it gets chipped away at very easily. Entry hazards are more threatening as it can't recover any of the damage AND it loses utility as a spinner as well, one of regular Blastoise's primary roles.

Then you have Charizard and Venusaur, who both got great new abilities and stats that actually compliment what they do, with Charizard having two fucking megas that are both excellent.

Blastoise, mega or not, has ZERO moves that boost its offensive stats, its of one of, if not the, only starters to have no way of directly increasing its attack stats. Give it fucking Curse, give it goddamned Shell Smash, for fuck's sake.

Steel/poison and grass/steel

You Dragonshitters are as annoying as NTR posters on hgg2d
I hope something bad befalls you for your treachery

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Pinsir was never viable, there was always something that filled its role better than it could

Aside from its attack all its other stats are mediocre and mono-bug isn't great typing.

it also wasn't anywhere near "crap"
it was fully capable of fulfilling it's role as physical attacker
lets not even pretend Pinsir was anywhere near the level of beedrill

It kinda is how physics works. Ice begets more ice. You ever stick a bottle of water into an icechest?

>it also wasn't anywhere near "crap"
Yeah, it was.

>Gen 1: UU (lowest tier)
>Gen 2: UU (lowest tier)
>Gen 3: UU
>Gen 4: NU (lowest tier)
>Gen 5: NU
>Gen 6: NU (base form)
>Gen 7: PU (base form)

It was never anything but crap until it got its mega. If being in the lowest or second-lowest tier for its entire existence doesn't make it bad then what fucking does?

>tfw refuse to use Fairy-types in any capacity because I hate the type
>still regularly get to 1500+ OU mmr whenever trying new teams
>Once I get to 1600 every team has 3+ fairies
God damnit. I'm sick of this fucking type being everywhere. It's so gay.

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Are fairies really so broken? I don't play competitively
And on the same note, why the fuck does Fire resist Fairy?

I just use Pokemon I like.

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Based AND metapilled.

Newfag. Back in the day, Fighting was garbage, too. In Gen 3, Rock Slide and Brick Break were the most common Rock and Fighting moves to be used. Some lucky few made use of Focus Punch/Substitute sets, but those were few and far between.

Everything changed in Gen 4 when huge power creep set in. Every gen since has been experiencing dangerous amounts of powercreep. Salamence was Ubers for 2 gens in a row, and now it's not even good enough for OU. Garchomp was a top-tier Uber in Gen 4, and it was low tier OU for most of Gen 7.

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the issue with fairy is a simple one

GF intended to balance a counter to the more powerful offensive mons by making it so that the less commonly used for offense types would also get thrown a bone and have a leg up on them

but didn't bother throwing any further bones than that and the slight gunk shot buff at said types

Thanks, babe.

It wasn't even like that in Gen 5. Gen 5 was *sends out Politoed* heh, nothin personnel, kid

Fairy is stronger than any other type in the history of the game. Well, maybe not stronger than Gen 1 Normal, but Gen 1 was so full of jank even that's debatable.

Avalugg is actually good though, albeit very niche.

The biggest problem with Fairy is that Dragon inmunity

>niggas don’t get that you mean ice type moves, and not as defensive types

The biggest problem with Fairy is that it exists.

Just give us Sound type already and make it immune + SE against Fairy to be the Fairy to Fairy's Dragon

Nah, it's everything else.

Yes.
Even gen 6 couldn't salvage that type. It's really fucking sad.