Let's get some Metroid discussions going

Both. I like the idea of Samus being on the run, but I don't think the Federation can carry a game as the main antagonists, not even if they bring in various bioweapons against Samus. They're still just a human organization and Samus would never be as ruthless against them as she is against her usual enemies. They could be side antagonists while the rogue Chozo are also part of the story.

exactly, prime 3 ended with sylux following Samus, and fed force ended with sylux stealing a metroid.
prime 4 most likely takes place between fed force and metroid 2 and involves sylux doing something with metroids.
getting an extinction order through any kind of legislature takes some kind of horrific catastrophe involving the species in question, sylux could be the one that does such a thing. if he is, then the ending of 4 could involve the extinction order coming down and close the gap between the prime games and metroid 2.

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I actually dislike Fusion's linearity much more than Metroid 2 and Samus Returns. It feels too restrictive albeit it does allow for atmosphere building and storytelling through environment changes. I do also like Super's style the most out of all Metroid games though.

I think Zero Mission will be a good compromise between the oldschool free-form style of Super and added guidance of Samus Returns for the newer generation of games.

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So part of what makes Samus a planetbuster and number one threat against the pirates is that she was raised by the chozo and has an absurd power armor. The evil chozo are military birbs and looks like they're all wearing varia suits, what kind of edge does she have against them? She could barely take out one SA-X in fusion, how can she deal against a murder of plasma shooting power bombing walking tanks?

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She was severely weakened in Fusion though. And even the SA-X got fucked easily by that Omega Metroid while Samus assraped that thing quickly after regaining her abilities.

The linearity is a problem, but I find the basic mechanics and room-by-room level design of Fusion to be more fulfilling than Metroid 2 or SR.

I'll also defend Fusion's story. I'm not sure if it's just because it came out 18 years ago and I'm nostalgic but I still dig it. I loved how threatening the X were and how their intelligence was represented through gameplay. I don't think that could be done without the linearity.

the only chozo we've seen with an arm cannon was a top commander, her armor is top notch even by chozo standards.
she could fight and defeat the luminoth's trump card (quadraxis) and their tech was comprable to chozo, albeit more machines than biotech.
she could also take on the very metroids that assraped chozo warriors.
she can deal with them, but it won't be easy.

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I feel that Fusion could get away with this because each Sector is quite moderate in size. Fusion mechanics are pretty basic but it's the snappy controls that make it feel great. It also nails the game speed (Zero Mission felt a bit too fast at times while Super sometimes feel a bit sluggish). However, complete removal of sequence breaking is a huge letdown for me. Being rigidly linear and killing sequence breaking is just too much for me.

Something I've really come to appreciate in Samus Returns is that all power-ups remain useful until endgame, unlike most 2D Metroid games.The Diggernaut and Queen Metroid fights really cemented this fact, with Proteus Ridley battle returning to the more oldschool style of boss fight, albeit much more exciting imo.

I'm fine with Fusion's story. And I actually feel that AI Adam is actually a fine character whom I'd have no problem being Samus' human father figure because of his similarities to Grey Voice. I agree that Fusion's linearity lets it unravel an engaging story, but I still prefer more open gameplay.

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I recently started SR after playing zero mission and I loved the cutscene where you first unearth that big robot. It had a great sense of scale and menace to it. I am also enjoying finding shortcuts to cirvle around more quickly, very satisfying.

Looking forwards to playing super for the first time when I finish SR.

In my opinion, Fusion would have been way better if it had an Etrian Odyssey Untold style Classic/Story mode split. Story Mode would be the game we have now, while Classic mode would remove all the narrative elements and patch sequence breaking mechanics like single wall jumping and infinite bomb jumping back into the game.
The closest thing to this theoretical classic mode I can think of would be this romhack, but it looks like it's dead.
youtube.com/watch?v=y3Iht5RjKvE

I mean in Zero Mission you could still do many sequence breaking tricks aside from wall jumping with only one surface. Super Metroid had a turbulent development phase and I think quite a few of the sequence breaking tricks were actually unrefined control issues. Especially when Super's intended early game route is pretty clearly outlined. So in a way, they were massively successful "accidents".

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Also I heard that if you sequence break Fusion and beat the bosses out of order (not sure if you can do this organically or you need assist tools), you don't actually get the power-ups upon defeating them. So the game was meticulously coded and designed to kill sequence breaking in favour of storytelling.

I understand that it's on the GBA so it needs to be more pick-up-and-play style but Zero Mission was also on the GBA and it only added fairly non-invasive Chozo statue guidance.

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I'm not sure how much of Super's sequence breaking is intentional. Certainly the basic wall jumping and bomb jumping tricks are deliberate - but the more complex mockballs and cwj tricks are more questionable.
But, I don't think it matters. Whether or not they're developer oversights, all of these tricks make sense. It's not just clipping out of bounds (e.g. Prime 2's sequence breaking) in a way you can only find by accident, it's a result of applying the mechanics you have in sensible ways. In that way, Super's sequence breaking is extremely organic and player driven.
In Metroid Zero Mission, all the sequence breaks are primarily developer driven. You skip Kraid by shooting the correct secret block. You skip Imago by shooting the correct secret block. Nearly every sequence break in the game is just a case of knowing where the map designer left a secret, rather than being a result of figuring out an alternative solution to an environmental obstacle. Even worse, there are player-driven sequence breaks you _should_ be able to pull off (most notably Power Grip Skip) that you can't simply because the game spawns invincible barriers when you try to perform them.
In the end: sequence breaking is great, but it's much better when you're breaking the rules rather than playing by another set of rules.

Yes, that's true. Metroid Fusion has a pretty restrictive event system and the game just gets confused if you try to do things out of order.
A lot of people give the Chozo statues shit but I really didn't mind them at all. Every one after the first can be skipped.

please just don't include Sylux or any other bounty hunters.
just have samus alone on alien planets. thats all that is needed.

are you talking about prime 4 or metroid 5?
because sylux is coming to prime 4, metroid 5 will probably be closer to what you're looking for.

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Prime 4.
And no, not anymore. That game was scrapped and Retro is on a new one. Hopefully with shit like Sylux and other hunters left behind to be forgotten.

I want Metroid 5 to take place after Fusion but go with this new rogue Chozo storyline, I want Samus to only talk at the beginning and end of the game like Super Metroid and Zero Mission, I want a suit that looks just like her Power Suit from Metroid II Super, Zero Mission, and Samus Returns, I want to be on massive Chozo planet, and I want them to forget the stupid GF/humanizing Samus storyline they've been trying to push with Fusion and Other M. I hope they take control of the Space Pirates and the enemies of the game will be the Space Pirates, rogue Chozo, and Metroids.

I just want a new 2D Metroid game that isn't a remake. Why doesn't Nintendo realize that there's a huge market classic pixel platformers?

It's most shocking that they haven't been able to capitalize on the whole 2D pixel metroidvania trend.

No, that's stupid and I'm tired of Fusion/Other M's crapping Samus fugitive plot, even Sakamoto wants to move on from that shit going by this image.

tanabe is still there, and the stingers of 2 separate games feature sylux. he's coming, but he doesn't have to be alone, just like prime 1 started with pirates but became about phazon.
i think there's potential for an independent actor who isn't part of some larger organization to cause trouble, and i thought the hunters were cool.
why do you hate the idea of other bounty hunters so much? is it because you see no potential in what they could do or because you assume they'll be handled in the worst imaginable way.

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>The rogue Chozo plotline would make a great in-between game, probably between Metroid 1 and Metroid 2 since Super happened almost immediately after Samus left SR-388.
No, it would make a good "sequel" we need to this stupid evil GF shit, I didn't like it in 2002 and I damn sure did't like it in 2010, Metroid is about exploring alien worlds, not Samus and her Adam feelings on some stupid space station or ship.

Samus is a hero, a protector of the galaxy, she shouldn't be on the run from shit, I never liked that storyline and I'm happy it's getting dropped.

*don't

I would be better off if they make Adam blackmail the GF after Fusion to shut them up and then the rogue Chozo push their shit in making Samus the hero and hope for the galaxy again as it should be.

I don't see it, they probably hate humans and will take control of the Space Pirates because they most likely have a similar mindset to Mother Brain.

I agree with the Zero Mission and Super comparison in regards to sequence breaking. Indeed, because Super's tricks are more player-driven, the game is much more rewarding to replay and uncover new tricks and secrets. Zero Mission's tricks feel very deliberate and more fan-servicey. However, that makes the latter more easily understood and picked up by today's audience. Though Nintendo does openly acknowledge the fans' love for Super, so I do hope they will try to emulate the best qualities of Super again in a future title.

As for the Chozo statues, I feel that they help first-time players and never really impose anything upon you progression-wise, unlike Samus Returns' Chozo Seals (though these were because the game is already linear itself). They also fit the handheld nature of the game.

Would be cool if we get a Super-style 2D Metroid with optional Chozo Statue-esque guide points for more casual players.

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>What are your hopes for the rogue Chozo storyline introduced in Samus Returns?

That it never continues because it’s fucking retarded.

I'd like to see a sequel to fusion where refugee X parasites explore a wild frontier planet to colonize as their new home While a further mutated fusion samus continues to hunt them down.

Oh but that shitty muh feelings, corrupt Federation Human storyline isn't borderline retardation/mental illness.

alternately, ((they)) send her on a wild goose chase and she meets/wakes up the rogue chozo, who cause havoc until she saves the day, possibly without even killing/banishing all of them.

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I'm fine with that, any reason to get away from the corrupt GF plot is good.

-You play as SA-X the whole time, and the other X resemble scientists and friendly animals.
-None of you actually mention being X the entire game, just vague hints like "This is a new start" ect.
-Fusion Samus is unrecognizably metroidlike now as not to give away the secret.

-Game ends with a Tape recording of Samus telling SA-X that she has to carry the mantle of hunter now, ala pic related.

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How about the GF sending Samus to the rogue Chozo planet to get her exterminated since she's considered part of the regular Chozos, but in the end Samus genocides them, collected clues about the whereabouts of the last hidden Chozos, and set off to look for them in Metroid 6?

But that would still lead to the stupid corrupt Federation plot, I want it dropped completely, not put on hold. It's like some of you guys want to put the series back on hiatus.

In the manga the Federation are established and supported by the Chozos themselves, so it's hard to imagine them actually being 100% evil or completely wiped out. I feel that we're better off killing the corrupt GF idea.

Samus genociding the chozo doesn't sit right with me, either convince them to stop causing trouble, or if you don't want to keep them around make them respond to defeat by either all killing themselves or fucking off never to be seen again.

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Just don't hand them over to the GF because they'll probably get cloned and beta-ray'D just like our late Squishy.

Alternatively, they can team up to fix the GF and go find the hidden Chozos together.

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That's why the corrupt Chozo does that for us so we don't have to get another shitty story, Samus is a hero, not a villain, killing humans and fighting against the Federation goes against that.

I need your help bros. What, in your opinion, makes a metroidvania good?
What aspects do you like? dislike? I'm trying to make a super good 2D metroidvania game all by myself. I know it takes a lot of time to make, but right now I'm building my foundation, settings and game structure. I have of course my own knowledge and experience in what I consider to be great aspects of a metroidvania, but I need some external inputs that I know is good (which is you guys).

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sequence breaking and hidden tech

Care to elaborate on that?

i like it when i have a clear goal from the start, and when the game spaces its rewards so i feel like i'm actually getting somewhere within a reasonable time frame. if the game hasn't given me a reason to care within the first hour or so i'm likely to drop it. it's also nice when the game gives the world to you in manageable chunks at first, so you have some idea of where you should be going and avoid getting overwhelmed.
soft gates are generally preferable to hard ones.
the map should be functional and helpful for navigation.
upgrades shouldn't be for just passing one gate, but should have either general utility or a number of properties to make it worthwhile in its own right.

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I like metroidvanias that can be replayed a lot. Having extra techniques that first time players aren't expected to know but which can be applied to progress in different ways can add a ton of replay value for me.

Why is everyone still believing this corrupt Fed story is still a thing, in several interviews in 2017 and in an interview last year it's clear as day that Sakamoto isn't interested in going further with that storyline, he's ready to move on from Fusion but it seems like he wants the series to get back on track meaning looking at Metroid NES-Super for inspiration and not Fusion and Other M for inspiration. The 2d/10 Chozo Memory makes it clear that he is done with the GF plot. He even talks about reconsidering what he shows of Samus in the future. No one wants to see the X return, no one wants to see the GF become enemies that is so cliche it's not even funny, no one wants to deal with Metroids or Space Pirates are cloned again, no one wants to be trapped on another boring Space Station or Spaceship, no one wants to see Samus going out of her way to express her character and show her human emotions, Fusion is the worst 2D Metroid and Other M is the worst Metroid game in the series. Can you guys give it a rest with this shit and accept the better rogue Chozo plot please, it already sounds better than where they were going at first?