Ace Attorney needs to kill one of its recurring cast. The beginning of 1-2 is the best moment in the series, because it hooks newcomers with the promise that unexpected deaths can happen. But the illusion is starting to wear off.
Who should die, and why is it Gumshoe?
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fucking edgefags baka
They need to just restart the series with a whole new cast/location. Or do a timeskip where the old cast is dead, not cameo-fodder, and focus on a new Wright, Edgeworth, whatever.
It should be the Judge so Phoenix can replace him
how about you fucking kill yourself
gumshoe is infinitely based
if you have to kill someone make it someone that no one cares about like athena
Too many of the characters are essential to the story. It would be enough to have some of them just... settle down? Setting aside the matter of someone dying, Phoenix should probably just get married and take a background role for future games. Assisting and advising, but only going into the court room once in a while. Maybe one trial, or half a trial, a game.
Apollo, after his somewhat poorly received first game, has kind of come into his own now, and the current Apollo could probably carry a game. He's in another country too, so the cast could be mostly new with just some cameo appearances by the others. Ema would probably move to... whatever that country's name was, too, because she has a good dynamic with him. Ema leaving the country would also mean Gumshoe can finally get some screen time again.
Athena, on the other hand, really hasn't come out of her cocoon yet. I like her character, sort of, but she really needs to come into focus. Hopefully, if the next game is still centered on Phoenix, she'll get some actual screen time and solidify a bit. If she comes along as well as Apollo did she could even come more to the front in the following game.
It should be someone like Athena or Winston Payne.
Isn't that what the DGS games are?
>gumshoe is infinitely based
He isn't, though. He is just an idiot with a good heart. We got some mileage out of him, but it's time for him to fulfill his destiny and die so we can be sad.
Shut the fuck up with the dumb ideas you idiots always come up with and just wait for the new game there's always an aspect that always catches you, all of them did
He probably already starved to death because of Edgeworth's salary cuts. Give the poor man a break.
Kill Kay for real
I'm down for this. Dumb bitch never should've gotten her memory back.
He's been out of sight for a good while now. I always assumed he hooked up with Maggie and moved to a department where he isn't constantly inciting the wrath of the Prosecutor's Office.
>Assistant that isnt Maya exists
>You fags: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>They need to just restart the series with a whole new cast/location. Or do a timeskip
They already did that and fans bitched
Is there a fan translation or script or LP of the second Edgeworth game? I've long wanted to know what happens in it but Crapcom left that to wither on the vine along with those Ryunosuke games
>Entire endgame is Phoenix Wright stealing the spotlight.
Like I said, just FUCK OFF with the old cast entirely. No "oh let's bring back so and so for a turnaround" bullshit, just an all new start.
It was poorly executed. The fans weren't ready for deadbeat dad Phoenix having lost his license to practice law and a new guy abruptly taking over. If they made another Apollo game now, it would probably go over a bit better. The last two games have been gradually easing him into the leading role and he's a bit more comfortable in it now.
AA4 was half-hearted.
I agree they should try to shed the old trappings but they could easily do that now without having to break existing continuity. We've got plenty of characters to make up a next generation, why not just use them?
There's a decent fan translation. They even made the names puns and got English dubs for the voice lines which aren't great but they're passable
If you're just rebooting everything including the cast, don't fucking call it an Ace Attorney game. Nothing incites nerd rage faster than a new entry in a series having absolutely nothing to do with the previous titles.
Final Fantasy, and to an extent the Tales series can get away with this, but it's too late now- the series is established. The next AA game that tries to pull an Apollo Justice is going to be the last.
>If they made another Apollo game now, it would probably go over a bit better.
They did and it did.
Though Phoenix really needs to bow out and move into the background.
They half-assed it by giving Hobo Phoenix such a prominent role. It was neither a reboot nor a sequel but some weird amalgamation of the two which failed at both
>If they made another Apollo game now, it would probably go over a bit better.
That's literally what SoJ was, it's just they kept it a secret until you actually played it
Ace Attorney Athena was so very exciting
True. But I mean, the next title they don't need to pull a fast one on everyone. They can put Apollo on the box and not scare everyone away.
Imagine if Blackquill got his own investigations game
I think the fans would be on board as long as the core gameplay stayed the same. It doesn't matter how "established" the series is, Persona is over two fucking decades old and they've been bring in all-new casts for damn near every game.
>tfw we haven't seen Larry since AA3
He's with Gumshoe in a grave
???
He wouldn't be in that picture if he wasn't in the game.
Although you have to pay extra for him.
Kill Apollo
>apollo was just some lawyer tricked by phoenix into working for him
>his friend dies in the next game
>his adopted and biological dad die in the next game
bet his mom dies dies in the next game
>Gumshoe
You cannot be serious here, pal. I'm going to fucking kill you how about that huh
Play soj dlc
>that suit
Jesus what is he now, a pimp? Has he finally found his calling?
Kill Maya and spirit channeling shit off.
Game seven is about Phoenix and Athena doing their thing, nothing too exciting, and then the final case gives the curveball.
Have Trucy kill Phoenix, completely accidentally. Part of a magic she was helping with. Apollo comes back for that case. He takes up the person who is accused, Trucy's apprentice magician, and finds out Trucy is his sister during the investigation, which makes it that much harder to point the finger at her in the end. Game 8 is Athena's game, but ends up being How Apollo got his Groove Back. Game 9, Athena can come into her own.
what did you mean by this
you can't kill gumshoe after only getting a single reference in a dlc case in two games
I don't know, soj kind of seemed like a phoenix/apollo game, the main plot saying on phoenix until close to the end
Apollo doesn't become relevant until like case 4 and even then he stays on even ground with phoenix both being on that last defense
no
Well, he's now an illustrator.
>you have to kill people in order to keep the series fresh
Larry was in the Edgeworth games.
He's also just a shitty human being.
>When something smells, it's usually the Butz
The judge needs to be an absolute idiot for the games to take place
CIRCLE OF LIFE
wouldnt it suck if they killed franziska and she was strangled and when they found her body she was naked and she was face down and her face was purple and her eyes wide open and her ass sticking up in the air haha
I don't play AC for the deaths, I play it for the retarded twists and turns and the pointing and shouting.
SoJ transitioned Apollo properly than what AJ tried to do
Phoenix is noticing the problem but Apollo already had the history and is the one to finish it and i thought it was good
The build up for Dhurke in a span of a single case is probably on of their best achivements
fuck you, i just want a 3d gumshoe and to hear him say "pal" again if anyone should die it should be winston payne
And just think about it-
For a couple of days, Maya had a penis,
I'm like 99% sure that's not how channeling works in universe but uh sure
So then Dhurke had a vagina? Damn. Man got to die living the dream.
Why bros. Why can't we get another game as good as Ghost Trick.
you have to get hit by a meteorite first then I'll tell you
I wish we could get another case about a prison murder and have various characters like Lana, Aura, or Kristoph who were previously arrested act as witnesses.
I'd imagine Lana is out by now, even if the games haven't mentioned it. Similarly Iris should probably be getting off soon if she hasn't already. What she did can't be worth more than 5-10 years.
Iris got the chair, my dude.
Yeah, tampering with a crime scene warrants the death penalty. For sure.
Am I the only one who thought SoJ was meh? Had some good moments but I felt the divination visions could have been better, especially the final one what a disappointment that was. I think SoJ is JFA tier, decent but only the final case is good.
I think the opposite, every case but the final one was good.
The bad guy being the prosecutor has been done too much t b h, and the whole channeling part was fucking weird
I still don't understand what exactly went on from the start of the case to the end
>Iris gets out
>marries Nick
Maya fans would be slightly tiffed I think
Which culprits do you guys think were executed and which ones just went to prison? Frank Sawhit is canonically in jail and 1-3's killer is almost definitely there as well, but Iris was executed.
Gumshoe hasn't been around for like 8 years
>Iris was executed
Retard
It was foreshadowed. And Nick has repeatedly said he looks at Maya as a sister.
You can't watch any American media without both main and secondary characters dropping like flies all the time.
Why are Americans unable to enjoy anything if it isn't full of regular cast corpses?
If anything, Mia dying so early felt like a huge mistake imo. I think the devs felt that way too since it didn't really matter since she kept getting channeled and even gave her a case in the third game. What the series needs is to bring back old characters like Franziska and Gumshoe
bump
BUMP, NIGGA
Everybody who was not later confirmed alive was executed in some over the top ironic way
>killing gumshoe
Fuckoff dickhead
If anything kill Phoenix wright and make a new series
Franziska is worse than you remember
She'd have to be rewritten to not ruin the game like 2
Having a prosecutor who breaks the rules, bitches of she doesn't get her way and acts confident when shes retarded is useless. Shes the worst traits of prosecutors maximized.
You belong in a fucking BODYBAG WITH THAT IMAGE
>they became the next danganronpa participants
Franziska is more comedy relief than threatening. I like her. If Nahyuta can throw beads, Godot throw coffee and Blackquill feathers I see no problem with the whip.
Nobody else attempts to coerce like she does
The judge takes 10x more shit from her than anybody else, she also threatens the whip constantly. Nobody else uses it to threaten outside of maybe 1-2 jokes.
80% of her personality is I'm going to whip you/be a cunt
I wanted to like her, but I played AA2 last year and she was one of the most frustrating characters I can recall
Gumshoe might as well be dead. Unless he appears in the most recent one I haven't played it yet
Gumshoe without Edgeworth doesn't work anyway.
Have Oldbag die under mysterious circumstances, where only she knew some secret from the past.
And have a flashback case with young Oldbag.
AGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
A DRAGON
He died before the game started though, while the imposter died at the end.
Must suck not having a femdom fetish
Fran isn't even good femdom though, because she is so obviously inferior (to Phoenix Wright, of all people). She is literally more stupid than Phoenix Wright.
This, it's the courtroom drama that drives it. The series has a victim named fucking Died Mann and the case he was the victim in was great regardless
Femdom with a mix of cute dum girl, what’s not to like?
I do however and that was the best part of her character
I thought the sex jokes were pretty poorly written though
That's not femdom though. That's having a little sister that kicks you while you are trying to work.
More like dumb girl+cuntiness with 1% dom
Mia is more of a proper dom than fran, a dom shouldn't have to resort to flipping shit constantly and threats
Make Maya MC of a game. She’d be a legacy character people would be okay with playing as I think.
Why would she ever get into law though? She has a stable position that makes sense for her.
The best AA domme is actually Lana, who calls you a rookie even after you save her, and who purposefully implies that she had superior lesbian sex with your boss you never got to fuck.
Yeah but she's a girl so she has to one-up everyone else just to not seem like a joke character.
While I'd love a trial where Phoenix is out of commission and Maya has to step in and cover for him, the legality of that is kind of iffy.
That said, a paper badge fooled an entire court once, so as long as she didn't openly state "What, I'm not even a real lawyer", she'd probably get away with it.
Though if it's either of the Fey girls they'd probably just summon Mia and have HER deal with the trial.
>why is it Gumshoe?
How about you fuck all the way off.
>Implying Phoenix is a retard or some shit
The guy Bluffs a lot but its pretty Smart, he BTFO every prosecutor except Klavier
Have we even seen gumshoe since the edgeworth games
Phoenix is probably of just above average intelligence. He's some kind of genius, though, which is a different thing. Really good at riding stress.
>Gumshoe
>not Payne
>he doesn't know
>Payne being relevant enough to matter if he dies or not
Maybe if he was the main prosecutor of a game
It still hurts
Just make a game with loli Franziska as the main character, it'll sell like hot cakes
It wouldn’t because people have dhit taste
I kinda want winston payne as the main prosecutor now, where he gets fleshed out and redeemed
But that already exists attorney online multiplayer with Yea Forums
And DGS sold the worst of any of the games and killed off a potential 3rd game
DGS is that, and DGS1 and 2 sold the worst and reviewed the worse of any of the games and killed off a potential 3rd game
Except dgs has a pheonix 1:1 clone.
The original post meant an entirely new Lawyer.
>killing characters as a substitute for writing an interesting plot
Remember a time before Game of Thrones
>Who should die, and why is it Gumshoe?
Considering he's been absent for a decade it wouldn't really feel like anything would be lost if we were to have him killed off so the shock value would be diminished. If we were to kill somebody off like Maya that would be a different story.
aa4 last case in the past
mentioned multiple times in aa6 dlc case
>Gumshoe
Killing Gumshoe would not work, he's not been in the past 3 games so it'd have no shock value
>Phoenix
You can kill Phoenix, then have Athena and Apollo pick up after him. My only problem with this is that Athena is awfully written and Phoenix is much better than her, so it'd be a shame and Apollo would be carrying everything on his own.
>Miles
They already tried killing Miles but had to retcon him back in the game since he was so popular.
>Maya
Honestly, if she is not returning for real, this is the best answer. That way Pearl can be properly integrated into the story, and it can be an opportunity for Gumshoe to come back and help Phoenix find Maya's killer. Miles would have interest too, basically all the old crew would assemble since everyone loves Maya.
>Trucy
All she did in the games she appeared was cry about her terrible past, which, actually, is a gimmick that CAPCOM must drop urgently, fuck that. Also it's just a little too gruesome and unnatural to kill Phoenix's daughter like that. All her enemies are gone too.
>Maya dies without ever marrying and having a child
>Pearl becomes the new Master
>Morgan wins
>athena
This. Kill her.
>if she is not returning for real
???
What did you mean by this
I also played aa4 recently and trucy never talked about the past, all she did was whine about panties and her portable manequinn during investigation and call you a retard and swoon over klavier in court
>if she is not returning for real
But she was in the last game, pretty substantially. Granted she's not in the defense's booth, but Phoenix doesn't need a babysitter anymore. That's kind of why I want Phoenix to retire: he's had a good run, but he'll never be able to settle down as long as he's the protagonist. Apollo's got two or three good games in him, and hopefully by the time those are over Athena or some other new lawyer will be ready to take up the reigns.
Yeah, Athena gets a lot of hate, but so did Apollo at first. She's got some potential at least. Just gotta work the kinks out and find her identity beyond her gimmick. Her 'tragic past' story arc was resolved wayyyy too soon, so she's got an uphill battle to say the least.
I honestly want to like Athena but after Dual Destinies she didn't really serve much of a purpose, it's like they thought of a story arc for her but didn't think of how she could be handled in future titles.
>We'll never have Apollo in the Wright Offices again even if Athena is killed off
It hurts.
Now, if I was CAPCOM here is what I would do: a tribute to AA1. But please bear with me since it is a gigantic fucking ride and you will see how it is a true tribute to AA1 from start to end.
It starts with the obligatory tutorial case. It is a little more tense than usual because Maya is the defendant here, suspected for killing Yanni Yogi, the witness from 1-4. Despite that there is not too much tension because it is still a tutorial case.
Now the surprise happens after you blow the fuck out of the prosecution and it goes into recess. Maya is killed during the recess, and this marks the beginning of 7-2, the first case where the murder scene is a courthouse if we're not counting 5-1 where it's destroyed and happened because of a bomb.
Miles, Gumshoe, Pearl (channeling Mia), Larry, Grossberg, all the old crew comes back, 7-2 will be a real fanservice and dramatic case.
7-3 is a filler case, but the premise is attempted murder against Phoenix. He barely scratches by and instead someone else gets hit. Maybe the defendant is Phoenix himself, so Athena and Apollo must, for the first time, clear his name together.
Finally, 7-4, the final case. You find that manfred von karma is still alive and he masterminded all murders in this game. Now pay attention, here is the cherry on the top: ever since the end of the trilogy, Miles became a Gary Stu. He is way too perfect and everyone loves him. Absolutely no character flaws. This would change here. Miles must sully his own character one way or another. Either by siding with Manfred somehow, which sounds unnatural but can easily be written, or by forging evidence to convict him (since Manfred is a 300 IQ genius and could plan the perfect murder thus forcing Miles' hand into falling back to his old tactics)
The only problem with this script is that, as far as I am aware, Manfred is canonically dead, but CAPCOM has retconned dead characters before, such as Miles himself.
One can dream
>Her 'tragic past' story arc was resolved wayyyy too soon
This. The shadow of DL-6 loomed over all three of the original AA games and was only fully resolved in the final case of AA3. Apollo's past didn't cast as heavy a shadow but it still took 3 games for him to come into his own.
Athena's backstory was resolved almost before they were done even introducing it. Where is she supposed to go from there?
Also this game can mark the grand finale of the Wright & Anything agency, further games should really use different characters. Either that or CAPCOM should release much more spin-offs than they are already doing, such as a 3D Miles Edgeworth Investigations.
But I don't blame them considering how badly the spin-offs sell.
The ultimate pottery.
>Athena's backstory was resolved almost before they were done even introducing it. Where is she supposed to go from there?
Not be a shitty attorney, she had to have blackquil bail her out in her first solo case.
>all new cast, all new setting, all new story
>you find out that all the previous games in the series is just an in universe TV show
It worked for Danganronpa, why can't it work for Phoenix Wright?
No, Athena will never work as a protagonist.
They can try writing other known characters such as Hugh or Raymond into the defense position. A long lost Edgeworth family member, a completely new character, I don't know, but Athena will never work. She just has that Mary Sue vibe, her facial expressions are annoying, her character is being perfect at everything except getting her point across, every single good scene in which she appears is not good because of her but rather because of other actually good characters that appear in it (see: that SoJ case where she faces Blackquill)
Also let's be real here, Apollo hasn't good "two or three good games in him".
>AJ
He was overshadowed by Phoenix from start to finish.
>DD
That's literally the game where he went full sadboy and quit.
>SoJ
That's the first game where he did good and it was still sullied by his obligatory tragic past.
Apollo deserves one game where he can actually be a protagonist.
Because AA takes itself seriously and is grounded in reality.
HOLD IT
- My perfect alibi -
youtube.com
Franziska is not as bad as you remember.
The absolute worst prosecutor is Klavier. He is a smug dudebro who puts absolutely no resistance or effort. You will point a gigantic problem at the witness' testimony and he will just play air guitar, say "Hmm so you have caught up Herr Forehead... Well, witness! What are you waiting for! Explain it!" as if he knew all along. Which he probably did, his character is so badly written that maybe it's not a bluff and he actually knows the entire script of the trial. I wouldn't be surprised. The point is that whatever happens, he will just air guitar it away and then proceed to get praised by all characters.
Franziska may be annoying, but she is fun to face in court because of how challenging she is. Here is the official prosecution ranking in terms of how fun it is to face them:
Manfred > AA1 Miles > Nahyuta (and yes I am aware most people will disagree here) > Blackquill > Miles overall > Franziska > Godot > Klavier
And don't get me wrong I love Godot as a character but he is fucking ass as a prosecutor, the only memorable parts are the coffee quotes. He lays no traps and puts no pressure.
Manfred was canonically executed
I don't get how or why Sahwit wasn't executed.
Probably was able to plead manslaughter since it's clear he didn't intend to kill Cindy.
A game with completely new cast is not necessary if they can still milk the current cast. They just haven't been able to do that properly in DD and SoJ.
I consider AJ to have a good story, it just had bad execution, especially the Lamiroir case.
That's not how it works. You can't hit someone hard in the head and then plead manslaughter because you "didn't intend for them to die". If you didn't intend them to die then you shouldn't have hit them in the head with heavy things. That's as absurd as stabbing them or shooting them and going "woooow but I thought they would survive".
Sahwit's kill was especially disgusting because he was trying to steal, and killed her merely to cover up his own burglary crime. I find Manfred's kill more justified since he was protecting his own honor.
The real answer as for why Sahwit did not get executed is because they needed a small-time criminal to be there as a convo character, and of course the killer of 1-1 would be perfect for that. Manfred died because his character arc ended there so there was no reason to write death penalty away from him.
DL-6 had happened 15 years before he was found out, so it is an absurd punishment. But what pushed for it was probably the fact he had just manipulated Yogi into killing Hammond and pinning it on Miles, if we're trying to make logic out of CAPCOM's writing here.
Yes you can, it wasn't premeditated you dumbfuck.
He was robbing her place, panic and killed her in the panic. That's how manslaughter works
He was literally invading her apartment to steal, so you can't say it wasn't premeditated. He is well aware of the risk that his victim will come back and catch him red-handed. He, of course, does not wish this at all, and will do anything to avoid it, but it is a risk that he accepted when he decided to steal from her.
Imagine if someone invaded the house of your parents while they are away. Then at some point they come back and that person just shoots them up, then proceeds to say it's manslaughter because wooow how could they have known that your parents would be back. At the house they live at. That's how silly it is.
Most manslaughter is involuntary anyway. There are few examples of voluntary manslaughter, but they are usually crimes committed because of an unjust aggression, or passion crimes, but none of these apply when you are invading someone's home unfairly since you are well aware of the risk.
The stealing part was, the murder wasn't. Jesus fuck you're retarded
It's not his fault her head was made of wet newspaper. He just meant to knock her out.
>someone killed by accident in a magic show
>Trucy involved
Already happened in SoJ.
Having Maya kill Phoenix by a channeling accident could work better. But it'd kill the series. They really need someone with Phoenix's charisma and heart to carry the games.
Phoenix is ultra likable because you have been watching his inner monologue ever since he was a rookie
You are the retard mate, by breaking into someone's house to practice burglary you make yourself aware that there is a risk of meeting the house's owner. When that does happen it will of course be considered murder to kill them since you were very damn aware that things could easily end up like this.
If you still disagree then you are just dumb. This is not a matter of opinion.
It's weird how everyone dies to a single blunt strike in AA. Why is CAPCOM afraid of making it multiple strikes?
Mia died in like two or three if i remember right
Except he didn't expect to see anyone, he panicked and killed her. That's not murder dumbass
For the last time, you can't invade someone's home and claim you did not expect to see them.
Wanna know who could claim manslaughter? The victim herself, Cindy, if she was the one who reacted by taking the thinker statue and hitting Sahwit.
I urge you to understand this is not a matter of opinion. You are doing the legal equivalent of believing on a flat earth. There are vast amounts of sample cases where burglars are "surprised" by the house owners arriving before they get out, killing them and being arrested for murder.
Yes it is dumbass, he broke into homes he thought were empty, and SHOCK, the owner came back. Thus, it wasn't premeditated
I think it was implied that either stress killed Von Karma or he killed himself. He died in like a year but it took several years for Dalhia and Blackquill to get executed.
>Gumshoe
>recurring cast
He probably just died of shame, or is still in jail, they never said he was dead.
Don't forget the stream next week fags.