>>453273853

Have they confirmed anything now? I know they announced they'd use it to handle the difficulty of launch, but they refused to directly promise that it wouldn't be used later.

>Believing anything Blizzard says
They'll leave it in because current server architecture can't sustain more than 50 active players in a zone at once without just completely breaking

Why would they leave it? Everyone would bounce immediately. You seem to think Blizzard is more evil/dumb than they actually are

I hope so, but WOW is an everquest clone, thus they'll probably go EQ style progression servers with this shit rather then using it as a launching point to fix the game, shelf current WOW and launch WC4 using that timeline.

No, it's going to be like Runescape Classic.

Its not frustrating when you group up with 5 other dudes to camp spawns.

Thats the best time to make friends and potential future group members.

>current
>as if they weren't unstable fucking messes from day one

>for years nostalgiafags with rose tinted glasses have shitposted in every wow thread crying about how good vanilla was
>mfw blizzard have spent 3 years making classic, which will end up in an economic failure as every nostalgiafag quickly realises just how bad vanilla wow was
>blizzard could've spent that time developing other things, but fucked themselves over AND for a bonus, made the nostalgiafags finally shut their mouth for once
>the nostalgiafags are going to try and go full damage control by saying bullshit like:
>"i-i-it's not real vanilla wow because this shade of green isn't the same!"
>the nostalgiafags are going to break down and embarrass themselves when they try and claim classic failed for negligible reasons such as a mailbox was placed one step to the right, rather then admitting vanilla wow isn't as good as they remember

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>>mfw blizzard have spent 3 years making classic, which will end up in an economic failure as every nostalgiafag quickly realises just how bad vanilla wow was
Says who? I wouldn't be surprised if BFA has less than 2 million subscribers, many of those who quit will join vanilla. Look at Nost, 100k+ active population as a private server
>blizzard could've spent that time developing other things
They tried, it all failed quite hard compared to their previous games

this.

it's not real vanilla.

Why do you even care? Why are retail players so butthurt about classic?

The servers were a hundred times more powerful back in 2005 than they are today.

Neither are the private servers, they are emulated and can have many gaps in coding.

the only reason to play classic is to have good roleplay again
we're finally home

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human mage here, fuck gnomes, and fuck minmaxers

>It's going to be like OSRS all over again, isn't it?
that depends what you mean by "OSRS all over again" since OSRS still preserves MOST of the original gameplay of RS, but still makes a ton of changes that bring it more in line with RS3, causing the game to be more like "RuneScape 2.5"

Probably the worst aspect of this is how they're handling lore and plot details, because RS3 already has the "canon" outcomes for questlines it forces OSRS to have mangle their plotlines and force it to be different while also retconning old lore to match the new content of RS3, such as Zanaris being the moon instead of a mystical realm existing independent from the rest of the world and the vampyres being weird-ass aliens from another planet instead of just, you know, fucking vampires

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>but still makes a ton of changes that bring it more in line with RS3
Okay lets see what those reasons ar-
>Probably the worst aspect of this is how they're handling lore and plot details
BIG yikes. Nobody plays runescape for the lore

>t. some underage LARPing faggot who never touched Vanilla and wasn't around for them to constantly fucking crash anytime any sort of large scale player event happened or any hotfix or patch was done

>Nobody plays runescape for the lore
you'd be surprised, I know OSRS's playerbase consists mostly of slayerfags that just like seeing numbers go up but a fair amount of the RS playerbase, especially dating back to 07/08, care about the lore and various questlines

My biggest concern isn't even that vanilla isn't as great as I remember it. My biggest concern is that the game is going to turn into vanilla™ and try to introduce many of the cash shop and paid elements that the retail version has. The fact that they revealed server sharding to be in place for release shows me that they aren't necessarily interested in the integrity of the project, regardless of how short of a period this turns out to be.
This may also just be my paranoia talking, but Blizzard loves to overcharge for almost everything they put out. Isn't it a little curious that all they're asking for this time around is a retail subscription to WoW? I remember when they made you pay $20 just to access their PvP servers during TBC. I get this nagging feeling that this was all just a half-baked idea to cash in on the private server craze while secretly just wanting people to go back to retail once they've had their fix.

Soon, bros

They've already said they don't wanna manage two mmo's, why make extra content when you have two expansions there ready to use and develop?

but they did a 180 on classic servers so fuck knows

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user Blizzard is pretty fucking stupid. As well as prideful

Retail WoW shits itself with 2 raid groups in WPVP

Your criticism of the comparason doesnt work that well. Yes OSRS is a later version of runescape. But thats the version everyone wants to play. Just because it was a later version doesnt make it all that different.

>You seem to think Blizzard is more evil/dumb than they actually are
Blizzard is completely fucking retarded. I expect absolutely nothing from them in the current year.

>I play easy mode
Lmao, such a fucking pussy bitch that you are scared of rogues???

:-D

its the other way around
you cant mention 1 thing about bfa without classic fags swarming you and saying how their shitty friend sim is better
better as friend sim (mmo) sure, as rpg(GAME), way way worse.

Imagine if someone said the only reason people like mario 64 is nostagia and said they sould just play new super mario bros U instead. What is your issue with an old game comeing back?

Why it should be there at all? Who asked for this? What difference would it made if very next zone to the starting zone would be as if not more cluttered than starting zone?

And my favorite
>Time to duel ourside of org/storm gates
Woopsies sharding, just like in vanilla.

Fuck off

It's because people quit the shitshow that is retail and are explaining why the current game is bad. There is no rational way to cry about vanilla though except that you are mad your version of the game will die

Im sure in a perfect world people would prefer to play the current version of the game if it was actually good

Is WoW "killing" the MMORPG genre the fault of WoW/Blizzard itself?

Or is it the lack of any meaningful competition?

The lack of anything else out there that can scratch the itch that WoW scratches?

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>Or is it the lack of any meaningful competition?

>The wow classic bogeyman
They said sharding would only be around at the very begining so that the servers dont crash and people can actually play. What lot of peanut brains dont realize that its not a good thing if your launch of a game is not functional

there is nothing classic does better than bfa other than mmo aspect
so people that say bfa is bad are just actual nostangianiggers that would rather grind 100 bear asses with even worse class gameplay because whatever reason they have, be it delusion, nostalgia, whatever
classic will never be more popular than bfa, so whatever

>BFA is a better RPG

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>The same old speculative arguments for the gorillionth time

It's all so tiresome

>my computer shits itself with 2 raid groups in WPVP
That's too bad.

>there is nothing classic does better than bfa other than mmo aspect
No, just no. I could write a list of things vanilla does way better than BFA

I can't wait for the h*brids apologists.

>scalling
>normalized gear
>dumbed down stats
>removed gems/enchants
>rpg
kek

>bfa is a better rpg

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Professions. That's about it.

>classic will never be more popular than bfa, so whatever

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>there is nothing classic does better than bfa other than mmo aspect

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>other than mmo aspect
lol
what else do you want out of an mmo

>BFA has better rpg elements than vanilla

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>classic will never be more popular than bfa, so whatever

Nigger, it WAS more popular than BfA, 12 fucking years ago! Being generous and giving BfA 2 million subs right now, Vanilla still had nearly FOUR TIMES its subs at its peak.

>because whatever reason they have, be it delusion, nostalgia, whatever
>I literally cannot fathom that people enjoy different games than me apart from when I pathologise their behaviour

Are you 14?

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Classic is a better rpg though. Its classes are all different with different spells and capabilites. Ive played retail and trust me when I say that all the classes feel the same now. They have taken balence too far now it feels like classes are cosmetic. The difference between classes should not be the order of buttons you press and the partical effects they shoot out. The only real diffences classes have now are out of combat things. Shamans can turn into ghost wolf, warriors can jump really far, etc. Its really sad to see what the game has turnex into

Nah it'll be fine. There really isn't anything in Classic worth buying except a level 60 character.

Their reasoning for tying vanilla to retail subscription fee is to hope people who don't play retail normally will try it and get hooked on the cash shop teet.

Pallychads rise up

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He's not wrong. The problem is you retards are so used to hanging out in echo chambers that you forget Yea Forums and shitty pserver communities are an insignificant minority. Classic is never going to be more popular. It has shitty graphics, it's only new*** content is a handful of dungeons and a couple quests, it's badly balanced, there are only a few specs that aren't boring as all shit to play, there's very little to do outside of BGs, farming, and raiding.

It is a game built in 2004, for an audience that existed in 2004, when expectations for the enjoyability of games were woefully low. It does not appeal to most people.

SM64 was a finished game that was decent while vanilla wow was an early beta and a clusterfuck that took ten years and still not finished.

Theres no way retail has even 1m left. It had 1.7m at the START of BfA.

yea, better gameplay, better story, better zones, better classes
rpg doesn't mean having to fill your bags with arrows, it means a lot of things
you're welcome to, but its nothing aside from mmo
yea sound great being forced to have engineering if you want to be even remotely competitive
scaling is fantastic, you can level whereever you want almost
"normalized" gear is still better than the dogshit vanilla had where paladins wear cloth and warriors have spirit on their gear
no such thing as dumbed down stats, vanilla only had crit. BFA has mastery, haste, crit, vers. You're delusional
there are still gems and enchants
yea way better rpg than classic could ever hope to be. Classic is just better in MMO aspect.
yea it is, refer to first answer in this comment
yep, cant wait to see you all cry when everyone leave after a month or two when they realize how dogshit everything is from class gameplay to leveling
seems like you forgot the part where its an actual video game, not just a friend sim
this is the type of people that play classic, retards that just want friends

I would rather grind 100 bear asses in one sitting than grid 20 and have to wait a week before i can grind 20 more and then wait another week and so on

How the fuck did he do 4k damage in a millisecond?

GIVE ME A FUCKING RELEASE DATE REEEEE

Sure 3 million people bought the expansion as a joke and never played it.

not that user, but Vanilla =/= Classic.

Vanilla grew well at a time where the MMO market was approaching its peak and it was a solid new entry into the field with compelling gameplay, and more importantly. Vanilla had those subs when it was actively being UPDATED every few months with NEW CONTENT, balancing, class changes, quests, brand new dungeons, battlegrounds, etc.

You cannot compare that to now, where everything it has to offer is a decade old, a decade out of date, and a decade past the MMO market's prime.

Dont even try to argue that professions are better now than they were back then

Imagine being this guy. Just think about it for a sec.

I bought the deluxe version of it and quit like a month after

Trying this hard.

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>the state of retailcucks

shouldn't you be furryposting in /wowg/?

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don't worry bros, you didn't catch it the first time around, but you'll be SURE to catch it now!

we're going home, I can feel it!

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But you still played it. So did everyone who bought it. And blizzard said how many copies it sold.

>retail is fine guys

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>Has reckoning AND vengeance
This guy's running a really weird spec

Google "Reckadins"

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Oh wow, easiest mmo on the market was super popular back then with almost no competition
imagine being this much of a retard
im glad you admit that you have fun spamming 1 button and afk wanding, brainless game for brainless people
not at all
classes are not all that different from retail, its just that they share some stuff such as self heal in order to make game balanced
saying classes feel the same is just a lie
what is the same is spamming shadowbolt and frostbolt and nothing else
let met just give you some class uniqueness since you seem to be LFR type of guy who doesn't know anything.
rogues: aoe stealth for you and buds
death knights: control undead and use them as pets (very good in some dungeons)
druids: can pick affinity with any other spec, making you able to perform secondary role decently if situation requires
warlocks: aside from summoning, gateway portal
etc.
all of these are unique and all extremely useful

The problem with current wow is that Blizzard knows the playerbase is dwindling and cannot afford to have a spec break the mold out of the DPS/Heal/Tank role, even thought he game desperately needs a shakeup.

SPriests and Paladins will never be mana batteries again. Shaman will never be buff bots again. Everyone has to be competitive enough to fill a slot whether its 5man or raiding.

You also have to look at the players as well. They simply cannot accept that one spec should be relegated to a particular segment of the game. The mong who hasn't played anything except BM Hunter for a decade demands to be competitive in raids and 5 mans, when it has traditionally always been a leveling and soloing spec.

>It's going to be like OSRS all over again, isn't it?
No because in that small panel with a bunch of classic hypemen, they said they aren't going to do OSRS's system of putting it up to player vote on whether or not shit is changed. The guy's official word was "the game's no longer ours to change".

That being said, with all the corporate changes at Blizz who knows if that's still the same.

WoW doesn't have enough soul to be like OSRS. Reddithammer is bad enough, but Warcraft was just a shitty Warhammer rip off to begin with. Only the ultimate numales like it.

the only good profession back then was engineering, everything else was ass
at least now everything is within line of each other in terms of uses and perks
seething fags cant refute anything

I don't know what to tell you, sport. I've played since late 2005, and Vanilla servers were complete fucking dogshit as literally anyone will tell you. They crashed constantly, they lagged constantly, patches could put down a realm for literally a fucking week, any sort of large group out in the world (dumb hogger shit, Kruul in IF during BC pre-patch, AQ opening, a raid group fighting one of the Dragons of Nightmare, a raid group invading the enemy capital) fucking all of it would shit up servers.

I really love vanilla, I've played on every "big" private server since nost.

But some vanilla fans are fucking crazy and way too into it. People like Alexsensual and Kargoz, they're fucking mental man, I don't know how you can make your life revolve around a game. It's one thing to enjoy a game and follow it, it's another to make everything you do be related to it. Like have you ever listened to those two do a podcast talking about vanilla, it's the most circlejerking thing you've ever heard outside of a twitter blue checkmark group.

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No it wasn't every profession had a use back then, engi was just good for pvp.
>trying to damage control the soulless husk of a game that is bfa
yikes

>the only good profession back then was engineering
imagine being so clueless

I'm just going to hire one of those leveling services and proceed to gank leveling players for a good 2 weeks and forget about it.

autism

It's the same with ClassiCast but not as bad I suppose, but that podcast is also a huge circlejerk. It would be better with Tipsout

like what? even for pve if you wanted to clear shit the fastest you would get engi bombs
>soulless meme
you have nothing of substance to say
you seething fags are only ever able to say "lol no" for a reason, because you cant back up your madeup claims

Without people like Alexensual we wouldn't have classic today. Not saying we should suck his dick or anything but it is good that people pushed for classic really hardcore
>its another tips out begging for money episode

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Is this the same poster, or is posting this exact image and text a meme?

no, that would be vanilla players

we're going home

we're finally going home and there's not a thing butthurt retailcucks can say to change that

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Eh Esfand is ok. He just really likes vanilla but even he has said he would jump to TBC the second Blizz did it.

without*

The biggest problem is the chances you'll actually find 39 people on similar schedules to raid with is virtually nil.

Pretty sure it was a result of Nost's giant playerbase getting Blizz's notice more than anything.

>It would be better with Tipsout
Did you mean to type "without"?

This. He's a paranoid schiz but he actually criticized blizzard for shady practices unlike most classic wow youtubers

I was lukewarm on this guy for the most part, then he went and reclaimed a bunch of money he and others donated because of some change he didn't like that the private servers. I think he returned the money to donators. But why even get involved if you're going to throw a bitch fit when a possible decision is made you don't support?

Why are retailfags so God damn salty? Is it that their years of collecting useless mounts and transmogs will go to waste? Is there any other way to cope with this other than smacktalk Classic? I honestly can't fathom being this person. Yikes.

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The fact that basically every raid pre-Naxx was working with 25 players lagging to the point of being almost unable to play, you never actually needed 40.

Why the fuck is this one guy still defending bfa

What a sad life he must have

I’d love to see his face when classic becomes a major hit and he remembers this thread

>will go to waste
It's not like retail is going away.

>no such thing as dumbed down stats, vanilla only had crit. BFA has mastery, haste, crit, vers.

>BfA
Mastery
Haste
Crit
Vers

>Vanilla
Hit. Haste. Weapon Skill. Crit. Defense. Dodge. Parry. Shield block rating. Shield block value. Spell damage. Spell penetration. Spell hit. Different schools of spell damage. Different school of magical resistance. Healing. Mp5. Spirit. Armor. Attack Power. Healing.

>You're delusional
And you are fucking retarded

...

keep seething at the truth while having nothing of substance to say

They've been angry from the very moment that the first person suggested classic wow servers. This vitriol goes back so far that I'm not surprised that it's still around. I think they have some sort of unhealthy emotional attachment to wow and think if older expansions/vanilla is released, the game will die.

I miss attack power

dont take it personally fella, it's actually just one guy. there aren't enough retailcucks in existence to put up this much of a resistance

Define MMO aspect
Because classic has
>Better and much more useful professions
>Better story
>Better class balance (not even a joke)
>Better content, even grinding vanilla dungeons is more entertanining than your meme expeditions
>Better PvP
>Better gear system
>Better loot system
>Better area diversity
>Better quests
>Better dungeons
>Better raids
>Better abilities (lmao they removed abilities from classes who had them since vanilla)
>Better talents (that provide more different build varities than your meme shit, even that 2% more to spell damage is better than deciding between a good cookie cutter and a shitty useless talent)

>hit
get as much of it as you can, up to X
wow so smart
weapon skill is not "stat", its retarded gimmick
vanilla does not have haste stat, only some spells that increase haste
retail also has dodge, parry block etc
if you're gonna mention all the other dogshit i will ass well
leeching, avoidance, speed, stagger, stregth, agi, attack power, intellect, spell power,weapon dps, armor
why be so insincere and mention garbage you have almost no control over?
what a fucking embarrassment of a delusional retard you are

The worst part is that in 99% of all cases those stats don't even matter past the first one

I don't know why either of you would even argue about stats when there's only ever 1 optimal set and spec for each class and all else can suck a dick.

>the only good profession back then was engineering
For pvp yeah, but aside from that the BiS helm for all of vanilla for Fury Warriors is crafted by blacksmiths. Alchemy is such a big thing for raid flasks that it makes alchemy THE moneymaker in vanilla. Leatherworking admittedly is weaker than most professions but there is the devilsaur gear which is huge for dps specs.

I mean, he's an idiot.

But so are you.

Crit definitely matters, I'd say if hit wasn't a thing then crit would definitely be the most important stat.

Nost is free though

Hopefully

1. false, only engineering is of any use and unique
2. false, its dogshit.
3. better class balance lmao ok kys you retard, every spec is within 10% of each other in current patch
4. yea im sure auto attacking bosses with 1 spell is better content. Meme expeditions are more engaging than anything that exists in vanilla. Single pack requires more skill than whole vanilla raid
5. vanilla pvp is dogshit where you fight for 1 minute and drink water for 1 min , also you're shit without engi, half the specs are unplayable
6. what gear system? pvp? pve? there are many aspects about gear system and vanilla's is not flat out better in all aspecs, it is in some
7. yea sandy wasteland vs foresty wasteland. Its just false anyway, wow always imrproved on zones
8. imagine being so much delusional that you think nothing but fetch and kill/collect quests are better than variety that exists today

ok im done i see you're one of those delusional retards that relies on feelings instead of facts

I mean they dumbed down specs so hard that you basically want either one or two specific stats and rest doesn't matter and is just equally worth it.
In vanilla you had to decide between spellpower, regen (for healers), int, hit or survivabilty for casters for example.

It doesn't matter if WoW classic is identical to vanilla. You'll never experience for the first time again. All your old friends are gone. Your youth is gone. Just give up.

>remember rolling a Hunter
>it was shit, had to have some distance with target or I couldn't use my ranged abilities, had to constantly buy arrows, pets would get unhappy and leave
>roll a Paladin
>useless in everything but tanking
>have to wear scraps of cloth and leather to fill the massive void of int plate
Feels like I'm going insane here. It was good for the time, but now it's shit, time has passed, things have evolved

>Implying wow pvp has not never been dogshit.

>get as much of it as you can, up to X
irrelevant
>weapon skill is not "stat", its retarded gimmick
Weapon skill over cap (stat on items) gives expertise which reduces opponents chance of dodging attack
>vanilla does not have haste stat, only some spells that increase haste
trinkets, racials. But ok, lets this slide
>retail also has dodge, parry block, armor etc
not as a stats on items
>leeching, avoidance, speed, stagger
which doesnt change anything, but ok
>stregth, agi, weapon dps
same
>attack power, spell power
Do not exist. Do you even play retail or just erp in goldshire? Or collect mounts? Xmogs perhaps?

Wojak wearing a WoW cap with his eyes closed always gets me. The game is going to be shit Bros just like it was in 2004, play a good game like Ultima online instead

>Nothing to do beyond bgs,farming, and raiding.

So every wow expansion ever?

:(

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classes in bfa actually have multiple builds and all are close with each other, not all obviously
for example with mm hunt i can either go full trueshot reduction build where you melt everything with hit or go rapid fire/multishot build where you regen tons of focus while spamming multi shot
oh wow guess what, you can also craft BIS shit with prof in bfa and alchemy will always be the prime gold maker because of pots
for example you can get extremely good 415 (mythic level) goggles with engi or super good trinket 415 with alch

>WoD forsaken models.png

Not him but
>only engineering is of any use
That's completely false. PvP is the only scenario where engineering is seen as basically required because of the edge it gives.
>and unique
I'll give you that, but that's mainly because all the other crafting specs are for making gear or potions instead of items that do something unique. That doesn't make the other specs useless, they're very useful outside of pvp
>yea im sure auto attacking bosses with 1 spell is better content.
That's mostly a mage issue than anything else. I'm not going to lie to you and say vanilla classes were complex or anything, but mages were really the only ones who had a literal 1-move rotation.
>half the specs are unplayable
The ONLY spec in vanilla I've found to just outright suck and not be worth playing in vanilla is balance druid. Even Disc Priest, which makes you a shittier Holy Priest, has some applications to it.

I'm not a vanilla fanboy, I love TBC far more and are mainly supporting Classic in hopes that a TBC server is next, but some things are just plain wrong that you're saying.

well true but considering its not even a pvp game, its very decent
theres like few items that give that stat and you just pick race that gives it
nothing interesting about that, no calculations past "its the best get it"
>not as a stats on items
you get it from other stats (such as mastery) or azerite perks so yes its on items
>which doesnt change anything, but ok
lmao, how does speed not change anything? leech is life steal, very good to have
>same
yea sure, like crap you listed as well
>does not exist
pic related. How much of a retard can you be?
and no i dont do any of that, i strictly do pve, i have like 50 mounts i got from playing normally
Embarrassing my dude.

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>Better and much more useful professions
This is true.
>Better story
This is false. Vanilla had a handful of interesting questlines. Most of it was generic NPC #1 asks you to kill generic mob A because it is dangerous.
>Better class balance (not even a joke)
This is just outright wrong. Without even getting into what a complete clusterfuck PvP was, the class balance in PvE was atrocious. Taking ONE member of a class for ONE spell they had is not
>Better content, even grinding vanilla dungeons is more entertanining than your meme expeditions
It wasn't. It was literally the same shit, except you actually get interesting crap from the expeditions, and you don't have to constantly wait around.
>Better gear system
Different RNG is still RNG.
>Better area diversity
I don't know that this is a reasonable comparison. You are comparing a couple dozen zones to like 6. Even then, You have about the same terrain diversity in just KT and Zandalar (forests, jungles, deserts, ice and snow covered lands, creepy woods, valleys, mountains, swamps, rolling fertile hills, rocky cliffsides, etc) that you do across Kalimdor and EK.
>Better quests
See the above point about story. This is just not true. There are a small number of interesting quests in Vanilla, and then a bunch of really awful generic fantasy NPCs asking for help with a local enemy.
>Better dungeons
This is somewhat true. They dungeons themselves are more expansive and dungeon-y, but they have less interesting fights and are less detailed. People hated most of the vanilla dungeons at the time, desu.
>Better raids
This is purely nostalgia. Nothing about vanilla raids is very good. Bosses, art, music, pretty much all of it is worse.
>Better abilities
The trade off for having more niche neat abilities was that your actual combat abilities were complete boring shit for everyone but like, warriors and rogues.
>Better talents
They are the same. The dumb passives are just baked in.

Ok, I thought you were memeing but you mean it seriously and responded to every point I made so I tell you what I think about your arguments:
1- Alchemy is unique and necessary, providing much more effects, armor and weaponcrafing professions always matter (Arcanite reaper, Devilsaur set, all the epic raid recipes), Enchanting is unique in it's own way, every single profession provides something extraordinary, not just engineering.
2 - How is this Christie Golden's fanfic supposed to be better? Explain.
3 - All classes being mechanically the same doesn't mean they are balanced in a good way. If I give mage a fireball and shaman a ball lightning with same cast time and damage they are balanced but is it good? No. Also some specs are still shit and others are broken. Remember the disc until recently? Or rogues? What about shamans?
4 - Requiring more skill =/= fun. Boshy requires 1000x more skill than anything in wow, but is it as fun? Also anything besides mythic is meme anyway.
5 - And now you fight for 20 minutes until dampening hits 90% and you actually start dealing damage. Half of the specs are still unplayable. Battlegrounds provide no reward and are basically dead. Wow, very good, indeed.
6 - Both. Any gear system is better than lootboxforge shit you get now. Even getting 2 shitty epics from a 40 man raid per boss for a paladin while playing horde.
7 - And now you have 2 small islands with similar looking zones. Look at Silithus, Winterspring, Felwood and Plaguelands and compare it to any of BfA zones.
8 - Muh variety. Yeah, nice variety, kill 20 pigs, kill 20 boars, kill 20 azerite golems, click on 20 azerite stones. You think Blizzard could have improved something in 15 years but why are we getting the same shit? Just because you have a % progress bar on your kill count that doesn't mean that it is more variable. Also a turtle made it to the water.

Your "facts" are just your shitty opinion man

Show me item with attack power. Go on.

Yes. But at least the expansion's BGs, farming, and raiding is all new stuff and more new stuff gets added during it.

>You seem to think Blizzard is more evil/dumb than they actually are
Do you not have a phone?

All the new battlegrounds were shit though and all the new stuff is just shinier versions of crap we already have.

I seriously hope sharding is in starting zones on launch. Because it's clear anyone against it wasn't there for the fucking launch of the game. I was there on day one and we had multiple 40 fucking man raids sitting there waiting for Sarkoth to spawn. That's not fucking fun. It took me about 2 hours to finish that one fucking quest.
>inb4 blizz shill

I didnt say other profs were useless, they were just not pinnacle of great gameplay or whatever as people claim them to be, only engi was any good, everything else was either craft X item or make stuff for gold, exactly the same as today
>That's mostly a mage issue than anything else. I'm not going to lie to you and say vanilla classes were complex or anything, but mages were really the only ones who had a literal 1-move rotation.
Warlocks spammed shadowbolt, palas spammed flash of light, druids spammed healing touch
even for other classes they were not that great, for example rogue the most interesting dps class perhaps, spammed sinister strike, kept up SnD and dumped combos into evi
>The ONLY spec in vanilla I've found to just outright suck and not be worth playing in vanilla is balance druid. Even Disc Priest, which makes you a shittier Holy Priest, has some applications to it.
This is a meme answer. "Its viable just not for actual content". Spec being good at leveling does not make it viable.
When people say viable/playable etc they mostly refer to pve content, sometimes pvp

They said it's being put in specifically for the launch. People are just hoping they actually take it away after a week when the playerbase has spread out, which they said is what they're gonna do but we don't know if they'll actually do it.

I remember when RS3 players said the same thing.

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>be 12
>log into wow
>wow a cave i wonder whats inside
>wow that trogg thing is level 15 i better get help
>hey man can you help with X?
>yeah rogue is fun i get to sneak by people whats hunter like?
>cool pets sound powerful hey where you from? im from...

>be boomer
>log on to private server
>gee im 3 bars from level 14 i should get that if i kill every mob along the way to my next quest hub
>hey i should group with this guy getting that named mob for quest
>*invite player
>*player accepts
>*mob dies
>ty gl.
>u2
>*leave group

anything with agility or strength
same as in vanilla, main stat gives attack power

I remember very clearly when people were complaining over EoC as I had been playing up until then. Most of the big youtubers were really bummed out over the state of the game and the idea of an old version started spreading really quickly. Jagex did a poll, I believe 100k votes were needed for them to actually go through with it. The entire gaming communtiy at the time pitched in and spread the word, those were great times man, really happy how everything turned out in the end

hyper autistic dogshit game is more popular in its even more hyper autistic version
not the same thing at all

>playing OSRS for the plot

This. Back then we didn't interact with others online as much as we do today. That was half the magic. Everyone was naive.

i was there on nost launch day. took 10 hours to hit level 10. doing quests was a bad idea.

No, you dont understand, my dum dum friend. Show me item with attack power. Not agility. Not strength. Attack power. An actual stat. Which actually exsist in vanilla. Which you can gear for in vanilla. Attack power. Understand?

Warlocks had at least their dots and curses which you wanted one guy putting one on the boss, especially Curse of Elements which is huge for the raid.
>This is a meme answer.
How so? Vanilla isn't only about raiding, there are people who do other things in the game because the game isn't built entirely around endgame raiding which has been a problem since Wrath (TBC being a wierd exception because heroic gear was better than Kara gear). Just because something isn't that useful in raids doesn't mean it has zero uses, because there's lots of other areas to focus on in the game.

This is false though. Zanaris is still in another realm,the latest vampire quest is different from what was released in rs3, and the new song of the elves quest will be different from the rs3 storyline. The developers have also discuessed continuing the dorgeshuun quest line in a different direction than rs3.
Sure they do sometimes make references to rs3-lore, but they're in no way bound by it

Part of the reason I stopped playing RS in 2012 was because of the direction the writing was going, I was hoping the same wouldn't happen to OSRS

>Most of it was generic NPC #1 asks you to kill generic mob A because it is dangerous.
And in BfA we have generic worldquests where NPC asks you to kill 20 azerite blobs
>Different RNG is still RNG
Not all gearing in vanilla was RNG, and stats were still defined. You could get your BiS part and be happy. In BfA there are still 1000 ways to randomforge your stuff, you never know how and when it drops and it stills scales differently for PvP and PvE so you will never figure it out properly anyways. I wouldn't say that vanilla gearing was extremely good but lets be honest, BfA system is dogshit. I'd rather have green crafted being BiS for my mage/warlock than a shitty randomforged trinket from a worldboss.
>This is purely nostalgia
I just hate the fact that there are 4 (FOUR!) difficulties to every boss. And endboss must be endboss, and not someone you can kill on 4 different difficulties. At least Ulduar did it somewhat okay. But killing Kel Thuzad means that you finally accomplished it, and not like Ghuun, you kill him, then you kill the same guy again but he has more tentacles etc...
>The trade off for having more niche neat abilities
And it ruins the hybrid spec possibility like frostfire-shatter mage. Being in one spec removes all other spells. You can't even fill some decent damage with a Scorch or fire blast as a frost for example. Same applies to other specs.
>They are the same
I'd rather have a choice between a talent that gives me 2% more frost damage, 50% more armor from spell armor and a talent that gives me 2% more chance to proc clearcasting than being forced to pick one talent in a row while other talents are completely unusable.

>I want to play vanilla WoW again.
>But not exactly like vanilla WoW.
This is why Classic will fail.

>i was there on nost launch day
Trust me when I say retail was worse. The server weren't ready for the sheer amount of people logging in. I had to wait 2 hours everytime I DC'd because the servers were completely fucked. I'd imagine Nost's servers were ready for the influx of players, unlike Blizzard was.

Zanaris was retconned to being the moon in OSRS with the release of Konar

Nost servers were "ready" because when it launched it wasn't super popular yet so they didn't have to worry about the massive playerload.

You're a fucking retard, what I stated was not
>muh vanilla experience
It was fucked and broken. Nobody could move more than five feet before running in place and getting disconnected and then waiting 3 hours to log back in, only for it to happen again immediately.

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Yeah, can't wait to level and afk auto attack on a mob while watching something else on another screen. Top cozy.

TRAMMEL

>haha vanilla is bad and everybody who likes it is wrong
>source: uhhh dude it's my enlightened opinion, just listen to me

Didn't know, allright. then again my point still stands. If you've watched the Q&A's the mods have said they'll try to not contradict the lore of rs3 more than necessary but that doesn't mean they won't ever - and they already have

Don't roll a paladin then

FUCKING RUSSIANS LET ME PLAY ON CHINKDALE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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>he thinks he can auto attack and afk while leveling in vanilla without dying

You've never played vanilla WoW.

Looking forward to classic, def playing but i cant raid until there on farm or puggable, i hate playing games on a schedule, its the same on private i have a 60 mage on lights hope and ive only run onyxia cause it gets pugged alot, and no one seems to run end game dungeon content much. As far as sharding at the beginning im with it, go log on a private server it takes hours to finish the starting zone cause 4 people fighting over a bucket of bolts on a 10 min timer. Anyway i also like that i can play retail and classic on the same sub, retail is fun in small doses, hopefully i can find q cool guild to join as well that has events and active members. Hope alpha/beta is soon

He can if he's a paladin

>I'd rather have a choice between a talent that gives me 2% more frost damage, 50% more armor from spell armor and a talent that gives me 2% more chance to proc clearcasting than being forced to pick one talent in a row while other talents are completely unusable.
You are comparing cookie cutter to free points though. Any given spec has 1-2 talent tiers that do not directly impact your effectiveness and are your choice. Many talents are within 1% DPS of each other, so if you are not in a top end mythic guild it's still basically your choice. It's more like:
>choice between 2% frost damage, 50% more armor from spell armor, and 2% clearcasting proc
vs
>choice between 15% more slow on chill effects, 2 charges on frost nova, and Ring of Frost

how else can i wank while also playing the best mmo at the same time?

Not him but I think it's more about a feeling of control and slow, incremental growth per level. My biggest issue with BfA is how much weaker I am than I was in Legion.

Reminder that retail cucks are literally seething because the modern WoW player is a collector first and foremost.
Collecting mounts, pets, transmogs etc.
You can't really do that in Classic because there are very little mounts and pets, and what little there is has a miniscule drop chance (below .1%).
Classic as a game has way more substance than the superficial skinnerbox called BfA.

I mean that it leaves you no choice depending on your playstyle. Yes for PvE there is always a cooki cutter build but in PvP and world it's bit different.
To this specific example:
-You always pick 15% more slow in 3v3 arena and bgs, and Ring of Frost in 2v2 arena, and never ever touch charges of frost nova
-You decide if 2% more damage is worth that much or you rather abuse bit more of clearcasting to have more mana left and be able to spam hard hitting but mana consuming spells
Rather have those little choices that don't matter much than none at all, that's what I mean.

>sharding
>loot trading
>right click reporting
lmao blizzard are retarded

1. alchemy is the same today as it was back then, you craft pots n shit and you can craft bop items for yourself, same for other profs
tailoring provides bags, leather provides armor, bs provides armor and weps etc.
same today as back then my dude, only engi is unique
2. as opposed to chris metzens fanfic self insert green jesus and human king? please
its the same shit, today at least its conherent and they have proper storyline progress, voice acting and animated vids
3.they are not the same, they all provide unique things which is why some are strictly better in certain scenarios (rogues in dungeons for ex) and gameplay is very different, much more than vanilla's shadowbolt and frostbolt spam
4. spamming 1 button and afk wanding a sandbag boss that does nothing is surely not more fun
5. only at the high level, for most players its nothing like that
6. warforging is not good, but other than that vanilla gear system is not better. Azerite system is phenomenal and dwarfs anything in vanilla, allowing you to make multiple builds for each class and get the "set" from various sources not just 1
7. Ok ill compare em coz u wont:
Sillithus: sand, bugs, elementals, cultists
winterspring: snowy, yetis, animals, giants
felwood: name, fel animals, satyrs, demons
plaguelands: dirt?, undead
Zuldazar: forests, sea, dinos, trolls
nazmir: blood troll cultists, snek guys, Loa, Bwonsamdi (special mention)
vuldun: sand, vulpera, rebel sneks,
havent played ally side
8. Variety of minigames, collect, kill, go into X and rampage, fly around and kill stuff, fetch
Facts are facts. Your thinking mere "kill, fetch, collect" is comparable to above is delusion. Its 3 vs 6 at least
They could add more variety thats for sure. Some form of mini cart race would be fun

I think people forget that with 40 man raids, unless you are in a top of the line guild racing for world's first you can have even half the raid as sub-optimal specs and be just fine, as long as they know the fight and don't die to the mechanics they can still contribute.

But its irrelevant my retarded friend.
Same as in vanilla, attack power is gained through main stat. Just because there "attack power" outside of "agility" doesnt mean its any unique. Its just another word on the item that changes nothing and could've been added to the main stat. Get it?

Untrue

Ap gives only ap
Str and agi give bonuses on top of that.
This way an item can be statted to have more AP than its str or agi equivalent, creating a choice

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Sure. But that's not a BfA problem, it's an expansion one. You'd have to compare how you felt mid Nighthold to now, not how you felt at the end of Antorus.

I never found the old talent trees enough of a growth to feel any sort of rewarding. It felt more like having to go through a bunch of shitty crap per level to get to the handful of actually interesting options, so I'd rather they just give the actually interesting ones. Though I do agree with him that the cross-spec spell lists going away was a loss.

>Haha dumb retail cucks clicking and killing mobs over and over for mounts, pets, gear and transmog! They don't understand the vastly superior clicking and killing mobs over and over for gear, rep and gold!

#n o c h a n g e s

I feel like if you were actually building competitively here you would probably take the armor and never the 2% damage or super low chance at saving mana.

>as opposed to chris metzens fanfic self insert green jesus and human king
Thrall doesn't do anything in vanilla and varian doesn't show up until the pre-wrath event in TBC.

Someone playing meme spec and dragging everyone down would inevitably lead to bad attitude and people slacking foolowed by loot drama, cliques and guild falling apart.

more like creating a mess where its better to take more ap than agi coz retarded blizzard thought its ok to give agi classes less ap from their main stat compared to str
shit itemization and why classes wore gear that was not for their class
"paladin, the heavy plate armor wearing support class", wears cloth dresses

>you can have even half the raid as sub-optimal specs and be just fine, as long as they know the fight and don't die to the mechanics they can still contribute.
Can=/=will, though. Just because something is possible with sub-optimal specs doesn't mean any group wants to deliberately gimp themselves when there are plenty of people playing the optimal ones.

>Azerite system is phenomenal
Azerite system is an objectively shittier system than the artifacts.

>whatever reason they have, be it delusion, nostalgia
you forgot because it's fun, retard
people running vanilla servers made a lot of money, beucause it's simply the best mmo
the numbers are the only reason blizzard considered making classic

>mfw all the retailfags mounts, transmogs and gold will be worth nothing when classic inevitably becomes the main game and has the majority of the player base. keep seething stupid elf trannies hahahaha

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>Sure. But that's not a BfA problem, it's an expansion one.
It's specifically because BfA took our artifacts away and caused a stat crunch.

No, no, no. No more excuses.
Attack power. On items. Which can be paired with main stats. Which actually gives players gearing choices. Like RPG should. Comprendo?

>grand marshal
like, what did rogue even expect?

Depends on your group and who you have available. A slot filled with a meme spec is better then a slot filled with nobody in it.

I was in a relaxed guild back in the day though, we had a balance druid in our raids and it was just fine without any drama. At least until the guild fell apart in TBC to unrelated reasons.

You are completely delusional if you think Classic will beat retail, and I say that as a vanillafag

The stat crunch is visual, power is relative. People who could two shot mobs in their sunwell gear were significantly weaker against similar mobs in Northrend. People who went from easy farming at 60 in Naxx gear did significantly less effective farming in Kara gear at 70.

My point is that a large part of why you feel weak is you are comparing to end game Legion. The power that was in the artifact was rebalanced into base numbers, your relative tuning vs a given mob is still about the same as it would have been in ~Nighthold, and by the end of 8.3 you'll be back to super powerful. It's an expansion problem.

Unironically a properly done sharding would make the game much enjoyable.
It will prevent clusterfuck of 1000 people being in one location (during vanilla servers weren't that full anyways so the population per shard should match the pop per zone during vanilla times) and it also will prevent shit like chink farmers stealing all ressources and bullshit like devilsaur mafia (which didn't exist in classic for same reasons). By making it less classic blizzard actually makes it more classic with sharding like that.
What they actually should do is making it much harder to switch shards. It should have some big time limit to change shards by joining someone's group to prevent people from abusing it.
Loot trading would be fine if it would work only during need before greed loot system when plate can only need on plate and so on.
Reporting system should be changed, desu, but let's be honest, report and loot trading is what blizzard is doing to make people fuck off and make less tickets

I think the issue is you're inflating how much it matters. The fact is mechanics in vanilla are so simplistic, and raids were built around 40 players who played so sub-optimally and had shit internet, that even things that were considered super hard in vanilla like Naxx got cleared in a night when released on private servers. Even a raid of 5 guys in optimal specs and 35 guys in meme specs will clear most vanilla raids with ease simply because it's 40 people with stable connections with no one afk.

>People who went from easy farming at 60 in Naxx gear did significantly less effective farming in Kara gear at 70.
That's not true, some Naxx gear was good all the way until 70, which was not the case with Kara gear in Wrath.

>regardless if Classic becomes a success or not, Yea Forums will have a complete meltdown in the summer
Who here not giving a shit about WoW is ready for all of this to blow over?

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>fellow vanilla players

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Don't worry even if it sounds much this talent is actually on the same level as others and will give you like 1% less physical damage overall which has similar value as other talents.

Okay please take your crazy elsewhere. We are trying to discuss a video game here

Wrong. t3 naxx items prior to 2.1 tbc loot stat changes were better than t5 aside of main stats. SWP gear and t6 were better than anything pre-t7 due to high amount of sockets and tier bonuses.

Nost is free, Blizzard has to put money into Classic and expects to get it back. I don't necessarily think it'll fail, but it's not going to be a very big earner.

Are you serious? Why would you not just form a guild with your RL friends? You can get a decent guild going even if only 7 or 8 of them still play WoW. Then you just grow from recruits and dungeons until raiding.

>It's an expansion problem.
No expansion has had a power drop-off as bad as Legion to BfA did. Every other expansion if you were hilariously powerful in the previous one, you still started off relatively strong in the new one. BfA is the first one where your power plummets as soon as 8.0 hits.

Also, BfA has a unique problem where due to power scaling, you actually get weaker with each level gained so there's no feeling of progression. Legion had scaling too but your own scaling was so crazy high that it didn't matter.

Going to be honest with you, never knew RS had lore. All the quests seemed over the top goofy so I rarely payed attention.

Daily reminder that there's zero(0) reason why I shouldn't be able to have flying mounts on the PvE server.

>But muh world PvP

That's fine, no flying mounts for PvP servers. PvE only.

ah yes, you're wrong on the very idea of what azerite is
azerite is replacement for set tiers, its objectively much better than them. While they provided strict 2, 3 bonuses, azerite has many and you are able to pick them, in addition to getting them from other sources and not just raid
they will do something similar to legion artifacts in 8.2 with hearth of azeroth neck piece
yes im sure its fun spamming 1 button in dungeons with sandnbag bosses with no mechanics
pinnacle of fun for brainless turds like you
the reason blizzard is making classic is because its quick buck from retards like you that will pay for 15 year old content they already did
even if there was mere thousand people paying it, shit would've probably paid off within a year or two
plus a PR stunt for autists such as you
yes classic is decent mmo, but its a shit rpg (game)

>azerite is replacement for set tiers, its objectively much better than them. While they provided strict 2, 3 bonuses, azerite has many and you are able to pick them, in addition to getting them from other sources and not just raid
Yeah and guess what Ion, azerite gear sucks. I've had so many times where I've gotten a piece of azerite gear with good stats, but the abilities available are shit so it's unviable to pick.

its not excuse, its a fact
agility/str = attack power
whether item says:
10 agility, 10 attack power
or
20 agility, 3 crit rating
is irrelevant, coz its the same
fucking piece of shit site im spending more time filling captchas than commenting

At least my core gameplay doesn't revolve around a fucking war table for the third time with a story that makes zero sense and characters that make illogical and insane actions for inconsistent reasons. Classic is already more popular than BFA because people look more kindly on the past, where as BFA was somehow bad enough to make some of the most well known autists of the WoW community quit out of disgust that blizzard STILL won't fix their shit. Will Classic be bigger? Of course not. Doesn't mean it won't be looked at fonder by the the community, even if it's for the wrong reasons.

>Loot trading would be fine if it would work only during need before greed loot system when plate can only need on plate and so on.
that doesnt work because some classes need different pieces of gear
like a holy paladin needs certain cloth items

this level of delusion is baffling

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>delusion
>implying he's not just a shill

No, it itsnt. Its 2 different stats, which behave completely differently just like a name sugests. Are you literally insane?

To be be needed to use portals and pay a mage (me) some gold

>yea, better gameplay
But they gut almost everything with each expansion, fuck they gut what they add in the last fucking expansion
>better story
No. Not at all, not even as a joke. BFA is fucking nonsensical, and it's even more nonsensical coming off of the back of Legion which in itself was strange and very flawed but at least had far more understandable progression. Everyone in BFA is an idiot, because the plot won't work if they aren't idiots. Blizzard characters have never been smart, but it wasn't until recently that their stupidity outweighed the charm.
>better zones
In what way? They're all mostly re-treads of old zones with a slight theme change, now instead of Worgen it's spoopy elf ghosts and instead of cockneys it's whatever the Kul Tirans are supposed to be. Fat, I guess?
>better classes
But again they gut almost everything they add, choice is gone, freedom is almost all but gone. Now yeah everyone always screams that "well X was the best build why would you ever not do X?" Well at least you had a choice to experiment and, you know, actually try new things.

nope, azerite is great, if abilities are not what you wish for, stick to your lower level azerite unless its big difference. Or swap to other spec or do various other activities and get your desired azerite piece.
Player choice, how bad!

It depends on how involved you were with quests, nothing F2P related really has story connections but the further you go with members the more elaborate it gets. Desert Treasure was one of the more lore-heavy ones though I imagine most people just barrel through it to unlock ancient magic

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So? Why would you spend hundreds/thousands of gold leveling a profession and crafting yourself a single BiS piece when you can just take a real useful profession and let someone else craft it for you, 20g + mats. Ezpz.

If you weren't Eng/Ench you were a retard.

No but if everyone moves to classic it might feel empty if you have no one to show them to

>azerite is great
fucking hell

user you're so cool. I fucking love that you equated a meme website everyone hates to a game and implied only people from that website like it, that was so fucking cool user.

imagine racing for progression in classic
you forget how easy the content is
then you join a group that has "fun"
imagine joining a hardcore progression guild in vanilla of all things
kill yourselves

>you don't support
Because of that part, why are you going to pay money when they aren't going to use it how you want to

>So? Why would you spend hundreds/thousands of gold leveling a profession and crafting yourself a single BiS piece when you can just take a real useful profession and let someone else craft it for you, 20g + mats. Ezpz.
Someone's gotta craft it.

Based.

People don't miss vanilla, they miss their lives when they were playing vanilla. They want to be younger, to be less cynical, and to be going through this for the first time again.

>You can come back, but you can never go home again

Green Jesus wasn't a thing until way later and before Varian was around it was the fucking purity sue as a kid being manipulated by almost everyone who ever stood in his throne room.

Shows what you know, I'm exactly the same person I was in high school, and I'm 32 now.

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nope, what i wrote is exactly the same thing at the end
i love how you seething nostalgianigs have no arguments
keep being delusional
>But they gut almost everything with each expansion, fuck they gut what they add in the last fucking expansion
arent you niggers the ones complaining about homogenization? thats what they get rid of mostly
there is only so much shit you can keep adding
>No. Not at all, not even as a joke
wow story was never good, at least its voice acted and able to follow it and not some fetch quests that stop randomly
>In what way? They're all mostly re-treads of old zones with a slight theme change, now instead of Worgen it's spoopy elf ghosts and instead of cockneys it's whatever the Kul Tirans are supposed to be. Fat, I guess?
As wow always was. Zones are better looking.
>But again they gut almost everything they add, choice is gone, freedom is almost all but gone
flat out false. More choice than ever with the talents as it is. Almost all talents are within few percentages of each other or depend on situation. Compared to vanilla where its basically 1 route for talent tree or you're wasting time.
Why do you faggots talk shit about retail when you dont even play it? you dont know jack shit about it and just talk what you heard from other seething fags.
Take a look at bfa talent trees. There are many builds and choices that alter gameplay greatly.

>Weapon skill over cap (stat on items) gives expertise which reduces opponents chance of dodging attack

Oof

Theres a reason that flying was only added when they did the cata revamp

based

Like OSRS where it releases exactly like what it used to be like then dies because people don't actually like the old shit so the devs finally start updating it and then it ends up bigger than the modern version of the game? Maybe

Can somebody explain me why some people here think that BFA has a better story then classic or even consider the storywriting of BFA as good in any way?
Lets focus purely around the story without involving into other aspects of the game
What we have in vanilla
>You are a literal who that raises up ranks
>From killng boards to purging scourge
>Entire army of (whos) who manage to kill lots of skeletons manage to kill some important dude and finally solve the issue in that specific zone that could cause some potential danger
>Background is based on previous games, lots of story found ingame in books and dialogues
>The only issue is how the hell did Nightelves join Alliance, there are no real explanation here
>In the end, you manage to kick the ass of that big skellington who was terrorizing some zones

now to BfA
>Shitty fanfic writing with strong wymen
>Literally repeating story, the conflict between alliance and horde starting from Broken Shore is literally Angrathar 2.0 turning into cataclysm 2.0 and in the end most likely Garrosh 2.0 (but that won't happen because Sylvanas is a strong womyn and she will become Kerrigan 2.0)
>Mary Sue NPCs, like Jaina who suddenly is stronger ice mage than the Lich King himself
>You are saviour of the world, yet still unnamed and need to kill boars, on the other hand you kill world ending threats like fucking gods and get no credit at all.
>Plotholes that are being fixed with even more plotholes
>Motives are so stupid it starts to hurt, pretending to be some 5D chess while it's literally brainletism, like burning down the Tree just because it looks cool
>More copypasta
>Good figures are getting turning into raid bosses because blizzard runs out of ideas
>LORE IS BASED AROUND FUCKING FANFIC TIER BOOKS THAT YOU NEED TO FUCKING READ TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE GAME WHO THOUGHT IT WAS GOOD IDEA HOLY SHIT

Just because you get voice actors it doesn't mean lore got better. Lore started getting downhill since TBC, but this...

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The only reason to play classic is because you want vanilla, dumbass.

Does anyone tell Chad he looks like John Carmack?

Yup, and thankfully there's always plenty of retards "I'm a warrior so I took weaponsmithing" or similar around.

He can make my Arcanite Reaper for his 5g tip.

fantasyracefags are like furries; they just want more vapid content instead of any attempts to enrich the setting with what already exists

I'm not saying I'm gonna be that guy, I'm going alchemy to make mad cash. I'm just saying if everyone had that attitude, no one would make the gear.

Imo killing the Lich King was what killed my interest in WoW. I'd started as a Forsaken so there was plenty of lore on the guy and I got to see his handywork all over Lordaeron. Kalimdor was a nice distraction but I always felt the real threat was the Scourge. Going to Outland was neat but it didn't have the same impact as hitting 60 in the Plaguelands.

The Wotlk came and went and Arthas is dead, the Scourge are tamed by some other random guy and I'm like, "welp, nothing left for me now but some fighting Alliance kiddies, a fuckhuge dragon and Kung Fu Panda."

>wow
>good story
>ever

Attached: 1546903421315.png (1694x1133, 1.74M)

>nope, what i wrote is exactly the same thing at the end
So agility witch gives dodge, crit and ap is the same as ap which gives... i guess dodge and crit too? How stupid are you?

>dropping Jew pills on Yea Forums
Nicely done

wow expanded wc3 a millionfold with actual fluff and lack of overarching stories, it was mostly dope
the big mistake was the two factions

I don't get the part with "trip to planned parenthood", explain

WC3 was a hackneyed mess to begin with.

People liked factions because it gave identity to the game. The actual lore reasons didn't really matter in the long run. People just want reasons to pretend to dislike/like someone else.

>People don't miss vanilla, they miss their lives when they were playing vanilla.

reddit-spacing know-it-all strikes again. i want to play vanilla because it's a good game, not because i want to RP as the teen version of myself.

It's called a pastanigger.

I just hit 110 and have nearly finished the first legion quest areas, should I just buy bfa or complete the quest lines in broken shore etc and heroic dungeons

>WC3 was a hackneyed mess to begin with.
no, it was flawless

>People liked factions because it gave identity to the game.
you can do that without making them superpowers

>The actual lore reasons didn't really matter in the long run.
uh huh, that's why we see so much praise for the lore of every expansion

>People just want reasons to pretend to dislike/like someone else.
???

I sharded in my pants

People who are invested in shit are pretty blind to how awful it can be.
Look at most 40k retards who think it is a masterpiece.
Some good stuff? Sure, but a myriad of retarded dogshit. When you have millions of things to pick and choose from, it is easy to cling to the few pieces of gold.

>dude vanilla sucks lmao
>dude you think you do, but you don't lmao
>dude you're just nostalgic
>dude you won't have fun
>dude here's why you should stop liking the thing i don't like

Why are anti-vanilla fags so desperate to tell you what you want? Does it make them feel smart? Are they trolling? Did they just not play vanilla and are compensating? Genuinely curious

vapid post

I love it when you seething fags have nothing
ok i guess you're too stupid and unable to read
its understandable, you like vanilla

unsubstantiated post

They're unironic shills.

is Orc lock better than Gnome lock in pvp?

Yeah I totally unable to understand how agility which gives crit dodge and ap is the same as ap. Honestly I dont think anyone but you can.

Whatever you say bro, hey, maybe you really will be able to recapture that magic!

Just because you now know exactly where everything is, how everything works, and what all the min-maxed setups for every encounter are- I'm sure it'll have exactly the same magic of discovery that you remember!

gnome lock has to deal with wotf, but it's not that big of a deal for warlocks, more for priests

It's about interacting with other people and not being allowed to treat the game like it's single-player.

>PvP
>Warlocks
>Considering Alliance

Fuck off retard. Alliance Warlocks we're completely unviable because literally every busted racial in vanilla was on Horde side.

Alliance locks get shit on by undead rogues and undead in general.

Orc lock has a chance to resist that warrior charge stun. All the horde locks are better choices by default for solo combat. In bgs paladins can make locks pretty much unkillable.

Its a trade off if you want better 1v1 or better group pvp.

The difference is, its not exactly like vanilla and never will be.

When problems occur for the first time you deal with them, process them and move on

If blizzard chooses to leave in problems they knew would upset players, its just going to upset players because they won't feel like they can learn from something already understood and expected.

Basically people will be happy that its going to be vanilla yet problems are fixed ahead of time.

Personally I'd say Orcs. But as they are faction specific I would just pick a faction and that'll tell you what to play.

Orc lock is actually the best lock because
>No Wotf on the enemy faction to prevent your fear
>Stun resist, remember, your trinket doesn't remove stuns so it's necessary vs rogues who are your main bane
>Lore friendly
There is no point playing other race than orc as a lock

>Mfw i missed out on the glory of the Forsaken Priest because i had such a hard on for my undead rogue

Devouring plague is gonna be dope as fuck. What was the other unique spell?

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Yup! I'm sure that'll come back too! Even though everyone already knows everything and there game is completely datamined, sitting in tradechat spamming for a healer will be exactly like you remember!

Hey, maybe you can even hit Rank 11 and spam global chat too!

I just want a game that actually feels like it has a community.

>Undead Priest

Cute. Was your other option a NE? It's fun being completely worthless isn't it?

I never quite understood why alliance had warlocks at all.

I play to RP though. Datamining and knowing the game's mechanics is irrelevant to that.

Some sort of buff that is removed if you get hit by melee, deals low shadowdamage (can proc the stun if specced) and reduces melee damage enemy does by a little.

>vanilla
>caring about priests

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Alliance priests that aren't dwarves are a waste of a slot. Undead priest is cool thematically but spriest is a pain in the ass to get gear for.

>at least its voice acted and able to follow it and not some fetch quests that stop randomly
But that's incorrect, 95% of all WoW quests are still fetch quests that stop randomly, now there is just a heavier emphasis on a "zone story" and an "overarching story" but the writing flip flops around so much that the overarching story, and hell even the zone story, is usually a bit iffy. And I mean christ man, Blizzard keeps CUTTING SHIT and the zone stories are often missing vital chunks to them. And voiced acted? Very few quests are.
>More choice than ever with talents as it is
Statistically, you've just lied to me.

Removing mages from horde and warlocks from alliance would actually make sense but that would make factions even more unbalanced I guess

again, you are missing the point. a good game is replayable and the enjoyment of the game doesn't just come from playing it the first time. people enjoy vanilla for many reasons and consider it a good game in and of itself. when you rewatch a good movie or show, it's not because you're chasing the feeling of watching it for the first time, it's because you think that the movie or show is good. it's not rocket science

That would have required way to much thought.

Cool! It'll totally work because everyone else will be just the same. They'll get lost in BRD and wander through UBRS not really knowing where to go, and man, those blues will feel epic again!

Definitely won't see MC and ZG on farm by week 2.

lvl 1-10 should be sharded.

when nostalrious ended and everyone flocked to the new 1.12 server that took their assets it took 4hrs to get to lvl 10 because the player density was so high you couldn't quest.

I like to just walk around the capital and talk.

I don't understand where Jaina's power levels came from, yeah she was always a very powerful sorcerer but the Lich King book made a big deal about how if she was the Lich Queen we'd all be fucked because of how powerful she was. I mean christ her big attempt to drown Orgrimmar only came around because she had a focusing crystal, and then that Le Shen shit or whatever. Why the fuck is she so inconsistent?

>His warriors can't stance dance

As a tank through to Naxx, I'm LMAO@urlife

>rogue
>not easiest mode

are you legitimately retarded or just trolling i cant tell

replay/watchability of something varies, dramatically, on the genre. Something that is a suspenseful drama loses a lot on rewatch.
In the same sense a narrative game loses much of it's reason to exist after you have exhausted it's narrative.

This is why almost all the highly replayed games tend to focus less on story, or if they do it's easy to brush aside. It is also why the most rewatched TV shows are comedies.
There are many games, books, and shows/movies that I would love to play/read/watch for the first time again.

but isn't gnome with noggenfogger almost invisible and hard to deal with?

Except on re watch you notice all the flaws.

cry more

Why are people so obsessed with having a smooth questing experience? Is it really the end of the world if you have to deviate from Joana's guide?

>lolol just group up!!

grouping up doesn't do shit when there's 500 people all in the same zone going after the same quests you fucking zoomer

fuck off back to bfa

>He clicks on his targets

You know you can press shift right?

by this logic, any game that becomes data-mined/wiki'd/min-maxed somehow becomes stupid to play. but every game these days gets data-mined and min-maxed at an increasingly rapid pace. so what's your point?

Some people never notice them because they aren't very perceptive and have to have the flaws pointed out to them.

Joana's guide or not, you will still have to come around at those quests. I did every single quest I came around as a horde player on Nost and I still had to grind. Even the shitty quests that were not included in guide, dungeon quests etc etc.
Especially at low levels where you have like one single quest option if you don't want to grind green boars or fight orange giraffes it hits pretty hard.

The LotR movies were my all time favorites, until I rewatched them.

Idiot. Grouping up allows you to get 5x higher chance to tag the mob you need to kill.

>implying quest routes are hard or complex
literal mouthbreathers accomplished this user

I think it's less "smooth questing experience" and more "a questing experience"

My point is those games are held up by other things - WoW classic is held up by nostalgia which won't be there.

>You can come back, but you can never go home again

Shadowpriest is a meme anyways until the debuffbuff slot patch and you will still only need one.
And since they scale so badly you don't need a proper gear for PvP, just get HP and mana and you're fine

any of you cucks playing northdale while you're waiting?

by your terms, vanilla is a great candidate for replay, as it was never about a static narrative and it is dubious that most players ever cared more about the "story" than they did leveling, getting loot, PvP encounters, or socializing. the "suspense" of the game has more to do with loot mechanics, world PvP, etc.

It's going to be complete garbage for various reasons.

Also horde > alliance, shaman > paladin.

Yes but I got banned for 3 days for writing nigger

Classic will be shit for the same reasons as OSRS. The community that originally made it great is dead and gone, to be replaced with minmaxing wiki pages and reddit autism

These posts are always btfo before they’re even written because you can play classic wow right now and it’s fun.

Classic has no Belfs, so it's worth playing so far as I'm concerned.

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It, certainly, can be.
I think what draws people to come back to vanilla varies a lot on the person.
Nostalgia is an undeniable aspect of classic servers.
But it doesn't mean that is the case for everyone. I know people who want to retread the same path as they did when they were younger and some who just want to powergame through it.

So how bad is NE Priest really?

Can I at least meme in PvP with shadowmeld?

>get blown out in the last thread
>come back for round 2
Why?

>Also horde > alliance, shaman > paladin.
>actually thinking this
This aint TBC buddy

Again, then why do people have fun on private servers?

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90% population nelf confirmed

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>Horde > Alliance
haha yeah
>Shaman > Paladin
wait what

>the casual dog shit alliance shitter is back

No, it's vanilla and horde is better than Alliance.

Learn to play.

Is it weird if I can't choose between NE and Tauren Druid because I actually kind of like both races?

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Blessings are much better than totems, fear ward lets you completely ignore a mechanic. PvP is irrelevant.

The perception of night elf priests is worse than the reality. People will assume you're a casual shitter and refuse to give you a chance

Kate Morgan is a film critic. She now deletes her Twitter every month because she has an impressively embarrassing Twitter history.

(It's March 5th and she's tweeted 219 times this month.)

>PvP is irrelevant

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This does not affect me as I play Horde.

Retail players are terminally addicted paypigs, can you imagine the kind of wallet dumping slave that would stick with wow through this? They aren’t sapient. Mold is more intelligent and worthwhile than them.

Yes, it is. The game was never designed with PvP in mind, that's why every expansion is focused towards raiding.

Blessings are worse than totems. You get a meager 400hp from kings, wow so good!

Meanwhile windfury totem increases each warriors dps by 20% flat.

Fear is not a problem in PvE.

I want her old voice back.

Here's the deal.

You play Dwarf Priest if you're a progression player.

You play Human Priest if you're a normie.

You play Nelf Priest if you're a role-player with no desire to raid.

it will, as horde will be made up of the last 30 players that didn't roll nelf

>Fear is not a problem in PvE.
t. someone who never raided Naxx40

Great for PvP since you have racial nuke and ability that lets you survive better vs hunters.
In PvE people will still invite you because who the fuck plays a dwarf priest, lmao. Priests are still best healers in vanilla and are always needed, while nobody plays a dwarf.
People will invite you in a guild because they need a healer and won't swap you out for a dwarf because you already get enough loot and become too valuable to throw you away.

>thinking you're going to have the same experience as you did in 2004/2005
>not realizing people in general are fundamentally different than they were then
have fun necking yourself after the honeymoon phase is over faggots

>kings
It's all about Blessing of Salvation lowering your threat. Not to mention totems only affect your 5-man party, blessings can be cast on anyone in the raid.

What if I don't RP but want to roll a night elf anyway

Then you're lying to yourself.

I've raided everything at a higher level than you.

Horde has Tranquil Air, also horde has more threat due to troll racial and windfury totem. Argument invalid.

Paladin is definitely better than Shaman but can't the tanks just stance-dance to avoid the fear?

I mean if you have no desire to raid, and no desire to role-play, what are you doing playing WoW? Go play in traffic.

I just like elves though

you can choose different spells now

>Horde has Tranquil Air
Again, which ONLY applies to people in your 5-man group and not the whole raid. If Totems were raid-wide it would be a different story.

Yes but fear ward means one less thing you have to do because it's done for you.

As a mage I can tell that blessing of wisdom allows me to spam spells without second thought, what can shamans offer, huh?

Horde has troll Berserking and orc Blood Fury (with axe skill). Only PvE-useful racials that Alliance has are human sword and mace skills and dwarven priest Fear Ward (I'll get into that one later).
When it comes to caster DPS, Alliance has nothing that is equivalent to troll berserking.
When it comes to melee DPS. Blood Fury gives 25% bonus to all strength-sourced attack power for 15 seconds, and that results in hundreds of extra attack power (400+ with world buffs) when you have world buffs, a crusader or two, perhaps untamed blade and so on.
Lastly, for tanking, Alliance does not have any equivalent to Horde threat-burst cooldown like troll Berserking, which tanks can time to be used when their health is at a certain threshold for maximum haste effect (30%).

Fear Ward is a great and very useful ability that Horde doesn't have a direct equivalent to, but the problem is that it has 30 seconds cooldown - it's super-useful when it's pre-cast on the whole raid, but during a prolonged fight it loses its value. It also affects only a single target.
Tremor Totem, however can be used to break fear on the whole party when it's cast, and then pulses on its own every few seconds too. While the totem does not have the ability to block the fear from even being applied like Fear Ward does, it can be spammed at any desired rate without cooldown.

However, my argument is that in top-level PvE guilds where tactics are crafted with care of even the tiniest details, the power of tremor totem outweighs that of Fear Ward since it benefits more targets and has no cooldown. Alliance has nothing equivalent to this - 20% chance to get an extra white attack and boost your attack power by 409 for 1.5 seconds (including the procced white swing). The rage gain is not even comparable. It changes the way warriors (both DPS and tanks) are played between the two factions.

A totem that does that too but better.

>totems only affect your party
How is this even an argument you fucking mongoloid.

No blessing of wisdom doesn't allow you to do shit, sorry.

Yeah if you want to bring 8 shamans to a raid.

>I've raided everything at a higher level than you.
I apologize. Jixxer, Juggernaut. Who dat?

>Paladin is definitely better than Shaman but can't the tanks just stance-dance to avoid the fear?
No. You basically had to have shamans who could get the timing right on the totem drop before the fear to minimize pulse wait. Significantly harder than just kicking the non-Dwarf priests out of your raid.

>Horde has Tranquil Air
It also uses the same totem as Windfury, which you conveniently chose to not mention

But you need to be in group for that totem to work, while the buff can be reaplied all the time

It's ok if you're a girl irl, or if you want to be the token shadowpriest of an alliance guild.

At least until BWL you're fine without dwarf priests. If you get full T2 and good weapons people will take you to AQ. Naxx I don't know, it's going to be a weird bunch of people the ones that do reach naxx on classic.

It's clear that you have not raided in a high-end guild, no need to waste time on you.

Because it doesn't need mentioning? It's clear you have no experience of high-end raiding.

>How is this even an argument
Because a raid isn't comprised of 5 people and in order to cover the whole raid you need to bring 8 shamans? You keep saying Horde is better but all the speedrun records on private servers are held by alliance guilds.

>you need 8 shamans
False.

As horde you always want to bring many shamans because of all the buffs they provide. How is this even an argument you fucking brainlet.

The current BWL world record is held by a horde guild, in pre-AQ patch mind you. All the DPS records are held by, oh that's right, horde.

Most 40 man raids did bring about that many Shaman but I get your point if you don’t.

>speedrun records on private servers
lol

What next, now you gonna tell me that Gnome mages are always better than Human mages in raids and humans will never get invited because Gnomes has shitty 5% int buff?

No, however troll is by far the best race for mages.

This.

Most Horde raid guilds took 5 shamans; one for the melee DPS group (Windfury, usually), two for the tanks' groups (typically elemental, but could be whatever, honestly), and two in the healer groups (resto shaman were probably the best healers at the time, but nobody knew that because everyone was playing windfury).

They're the ones who have been playing the game long enough to actually be good at it.

>This user provides you a valid data
>"Nooo this is private server it doesn't count reeeee"
Yeah, shut the fuck up, you can't back up your point so you start attacking his valid arguments? This is the state of hordeniggers

Why did they put Ele in the tank group?

>totems have 30yd limit
>limited by group
>no dispell
>no bubble
>inefficient healing
>shiiter raid healing than a priests
B-b-but muh horde superiority with better racials!

They didn't confirm it'd go away after launch; they confirmed it'd be there for launch though.
Everyone assumes it'll go away after launch, and the devs are aware of the assumption I'm sure.

Why would anyone put elemental into raid group to begin with?

Horde does have better racials though

>Willingly playing a race that doesn't even wear shoes
Imagine being such a pleb

Human is overall the best race for melee classes. Gives weapon skill to 4 different types of melee weapons allowing you to hit the soft cap much easier. That allows for more stats you can focus in other areas.

>totems have 30 yard limit
Not a problem.

>limited by group
Not a problem.

>no dispel
Not a problem.

>no bubble
Not a problem.

>inefficient healing
Shaman is by far the strongest healing class in vanilla.

>shitter raid healing
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about which is made clear by your stupid fucking arguments.

Because Ele shamans didn't really add anything to ranged DPS groups IIRC so it was fine to just drop them in a tank group and have them totem for tanks. I think they got a DPS boost in BC?

>Talking shit about Trolls

Attached: 1543752515252.jpg (306x382, 79K)

True, but paladins singlehandedly outdo them.

When it comes to melee DPS. Blood Fury gives 25% bonus to all strength-sourced attack power for 15 seconds, and that results in hundreds of extra attack power (400+ with world buffs) when you have world buffs, a crusader or two, perhaps untamed blade and so on.
Lastly, while the endgame (meaning KT killed) BiS weapons are indeed swords and maces, the axes that are available until the very end of Naxxramas are insanely good and orcs benefit from their weapon skill. The streak of excellent axe weapons starts with the very first dungeon - Onyxia's Lair (Deathbringer), and just keeps getting better and better with every new raid dungeon release (Crul'Shorukh and Doom's Edge in BWL, and Blessed Qiraji War Axes in Ahn'Qiraj).
Lastly, for tanking, Alliance does not have any equivalent to Horde threat-burst cooldown like troll Berserking, which tanks can time to be used when their health is at a certain threshold for maximum haste effect (30%).

>claims to have raided top level
>gets called out by someone who raided with the best Horde guild in NA
>silence
user is lucky this is an anonymous message board, goddamn

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>It's another "retailfag vehemently defends his dying game" episode
Face it, little man. Your precious mounts and transmogs will be worthless once classic eclipses BfA

Frostshock.

Paladins outdo no one. Paladins are absolute trash.

Clueless shitter confirmed.

You as well, absolutely clueless.

Stop spewing your fake news false information, you absolute pieces of trash.

Wait I can actually play Ele?

>inefficient healing
>Shaman is by far the strongest healing class in vanilla.
I'm not that user, but it's pretty obvious what he meant by inefficient. You're either not reading what people are saying or you're doing this on purpose

Do people really think retail classic will fail? Nostalrius had a huge userbase for what it was, and that was without meaningful advertising.

Attached: horde favoritism.gif (551x284, 869K)

The lack of "efficiency" is far outweighed by the sheer healing power that shamans bring. Efficient or not they are by far the best healing class.

I love it how the discussion about who has better racials and better class choice between Shaman and Paladin causes more faction conflict than anything nu-blizz tried to do during BfA
Another proof that vanilla was based and will BTFO retail

>he doesn't know about totem timing
>he doesn't know about best Horde guild NA
>he doesn't know
Wow, this is incredible.

But if you're being serious, maybe post something besides an unsupported assertion?

>M-muh 400hp and 30% threat redcution is irrelevant and strongest healers means same as efficient healer.

legacyplayers.com/Raids/Speedrun/Default.aspx
AHAHAHAHAAH
Look at this dude
Look at the clear times

>I'm not that user, but it's pretty obvious what he meant by inefficient.
Shaman healing wasn't mana efficient, but nothing shaman did was mana efficient except windfury proc spam.

No. If a serious group allows you to play ele, they will soon realize their mistake and correct it.

>Blood Fury gives 25% bonus to all strength-sourced attack power for 15 seconds

No it doesn't. It gives a 25% bonus to BASE attack power. It doesn't scale with gear at all, it only affects your base stats.
>Blood Fury
Racial
Instant 2min cooldown
Increases base melee attack power by 25% for 15sec and reduces healing effects on you by 50% for 25sec.

>Shaman is by far the strongest healing class in vanilla.
Not even close, that's a priest, nigga

Real Paladins go Holy Reckoning

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>gauging all worth by how the absolute best players do
This shit is why WoW died, this shit right here. This autistic obsession with minmaxing and being the best above everything else. And the people who push it are completely oblivious as to how damaging this mindset is to the game.

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???

Try looking at Naxx, which is what everyone is talking about. Try to keep the fuck up.

legacyplayers.com/Raids/Speedrun/Default.aspx

This, patricianhood is playing a race that can wears shoes and then never wearing them

>totem timing
There is nothing you time you cretin.

>best horde guild NA
NA? NA has done nothing significant in the history of World of Warcraft.

>unsupported assertion
Everything I post is supported by facts, you on the other hand spew your garbage opinions, they don't matter.

Indeed, see that #1 BWL, almost five minutes ahead of the 2nd best time?

youtube.com/watch?v=VOyfjNr9bxY World record MC (As alliance, so faster as Horde this time)
youtube.com/watch?v=csnjXDr9scE World record AQ40 (as Alliance, so will be faster on Horde this time around).

What exactly did you want to say?

This. My guild got through BWL just fine and I specifically remember we had a Feral Druid, a Balance Druid and a few DPS Shaman. Speed running is not the same as being able to just normally do content.

You got btfo

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human mage here, fuck gnomes, and fuck minmaxers

>NA? NA has done nothing significant in the history of World of Warcraft.
Yeah except you know create the game.

They don’t, but they desperately want it to.

They don't bring nearly enough compared to shamans, sorry.

>so will be faster on Horde this time around
But it hasn't happened yet?

By whom?

Shame they can't play it properly. 15 years and counting.

I'm thinking of playing a Tauren Shaman for classic. What profession should I take; I won't be raiding; just doing dungeons and PvP. Leatherworking or Blacksmithing?

>no shoes hordelet gets absolutely BTFO
>resorts to namecalling
Like clockwork.

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Untill classic has a LFG/D addon ill be sticking to single player games.

False.

vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?issue=2685&highlight=blood fury

Engineering if you want to PvP otherwise whatever is fine.

>There is nothing you time you cretin.
LOL

>NA? NA has done nothing significant in the history of World of Warcraft.
Post. Your. Shit. Or. STFU.

You're saying a lot of really retarded and wrong shit here, man, with NOTHING to back it up.

People are pointing out how BTFO you are, so turn the fucking tables.

WHO. ARE. YOU.

Will there be balance patches or will rogues be able to stunlock people 0-death again?

You got proven wrong time and time again. Time to stop posting.

Clearly you do not only play WoW at a high level, you are also unable to read.

Plenty of proof has been posted in this thread, just because you choose to ignore it that does not mean it does not exist.

method.gg/raid-history

TELL ME AGAIN

WHO YOU ARE

AND WHY YOU ARE SO RETARDED

This is vanilla, degenerate PVP gameplay is part of the experience

>PvP
engineering

I doubt that's gonna happen anyway because it was a wpvp thing and that shit died the day BGs were introduced, and classic is launching with them.

>playing for 200+ hours just so you can do BRD over and over again and lose in BGs because you're undergeared

We're talking about 1.12 here not some random Czech private server. Blood Fury does not scale with anything if it is implemented correctly, your funserver has no bearing on that.

I can only see myself getting the blue PvP set, I doubt I'd make it to Warlord unless my friend shares my account. I'm just thinking what provides better gear for Enhancement Shamans.
But can you really make money off Engineering?

yea shamans were always just mascots
muh windfury one
muh wannabe mage one

That's a problem with population, nothing to do with needing sharding, nost & CO had 3-4x times the players a normal vanilla server had, there's quite a difference between 9k players crampred in the starting areas and 3k.

>Clearly you do not only play WoW at a high level
wait

you still play wow?

well no shit you don't know anything about vanilla lmfao

fucking zoomers

>retail babby
OH NO NO NO NO

>in a guild that was at best 2nd because it kept getting BTFO by #1 guild for years and years.

The first world first Method got was in fucking MoP, get real you absolute shitter.

Not particularly
Its a bit of a goldsink if anything but all the goodies are a godsend in pvp

>disregards all the proof that you are wrong
How convenient.

>he keeps getting GTFO
oh no no no no, it's time to stop posting

For Enh just get the blue PvP set it’s perfectly itemized for that and not too hard a goal to shoot for.

this.
RP back then was amazing. Now a days its just garbage if you can even find people attempting it.

That's not how it worked it actual unaltered vanilla though. Blood Fury never scaled with gear in the live game, it scaled based on your base AP.

>makes baseless claims
>only plays bootleg servers
It all adds up.

You need to leave. This can't get any more embarrassing for you, kid.

Isn't the rare pvp set better statted than tier 1. At least I think it was.

Im Welsh and have been living in south Wales for 32 years and i have never met a Jew, let alone a Welsh-Jew hybrid.

Again, your feelings does not matter so stop posting about your feelings.

>baseless claims
There's clear evidence of what I am saying, the fact that you ignore said evidence is not an argument. Now stop posting.

Casuals who can't stand not having an arrow to follow around.

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Feelings? I'm just talking about how a skill mechanically worked in live vanilla.

Your feelings are irrelevant. You can stop posting now that you have been proven wrong over and over. Stop spreading false information in these threads, thank you.

I only started rping in wrath, what was it like?

I have literally never seen someone get blown out so hard.

You're done with Yea Forums, is more your speed.

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Apparently I have to post it again
>gauging all worth by how the absolute best players do
This shit is why WoW died, this shit right here. This autistic obsession with minmaxing and being the best above everything else. And the people who push it are completely oblivious as to how damaging this mindset is to the game.

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>But can you really make money off Engineering?
Easy. But you have to do it fast. At launch you immidiately start to level, get like level 20, some gold, maybe lend some gold from friends. Now you corpserun through the cave from Felwood to Winterspring and reach Everlook. Now you can buy all the limited Engineering schematics. So you have bought them, nice, now you just go casually level further. When you level high enough and level your profession so you can learn those schematics, learn them, create that stuff and put in on AH. Since those schematics will be very limited and 100% sold out in Everlook almost nobody is going to have them. This way you can make quick buck by selling Arcanite Converters

Stop posting please, you're worse than a bot.

if by that you mean a resounding success that overtakes the mainline series within months, then yes. It's going to be just like OSRS

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Please spamming this thread with off-topic posts. This thread is about vanilla WoW.

No this thread is about autists who don't have fun playing videogames and only care about bigger numbers

Weapon expertise is literally a bis stat in vanilla for dual wielders like fury warriors, also alliance has blessing of salvation which greatly increases the dps output and renders any kind of "threat-burst" shit pointless your literal retard.

You say this, but when you keep wiping on a boss what is your reaction going to be? Are you going to be happy with the dumb hybrids doing half of everyone else's DPS? Even if you're okay with it, the rest of your raid won't be.

>You say this, but when you keep wiping on a boss what is your reaction going to be?
I'm not a raiding faggot, I play vanilla to actually have fun.

Read the post again. And then again, and then a 3rd time or however long it takes you to understand what is written.

Horde has tranquil air, windfury and berskering, resulting in higher dps output than Alliance warriors.

>b-b-b-buh MOOOOOM THEY'RE HURTING MUH FEELINGS

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This, shun minmaxers and refuse to play with them. Force them back to their autistic tranny speedrunning holes.

If they weren't dumb and evil they'd fix current wow you retarded faggot. Classic is gonna be no different.

Taurens feel wonky and get stuck everywhere, also block half your screen, when there's a tiny as fuck gnome stabbing your groin is kinda shit.

You got proven wrong, now stop derailing this thread because you are mad.

>when you keep wiping on a boss what is your reaction going to be
That the boss was a gear check and we were undergeared?

>you want to play wow when its not functional!
Fucking idiot. WoW was fucked up on launch, nobody wants to replicate an experience that wasn't even playable.

whats the most fun combo for duo leveling?

>Horde has tranquil air, windfury
We've been over this.

Warrior/Priest

Two Rogues

>horde has tranquil air
This would require 2 shaman in your group because you can't drop WF and TA at the same time.

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>Are you going to be happy with the dumb hybrids doing half of everyone else's DPS?
That's a step up from actual vanilla when half the raid was doing 0 dps because they were too busy lagging out.

Healer + the other one literally doesn't matter, you have a healer.

I just want to BG all day and become grand marshall, then start hitting on girls with my leet title till I find a wife for life.

>I SAID YOU WERE WRONG
t. the person who was proven wrong

Jesus kid, do you dig yourself into shitholes like this on the regular?

If you're this retarded in person there's no way you've done high level raiding more than once. Nobody would put up with your shit more than once.

That excuse isn't going to fly when other guilds full of viable specs are steamrolling the place

Unless they add new content yes, shit's gonna die after a few months

>and become grand marshall
You're going to have to actually play all day to pull that off. Every GM is an account sharer so that's what you have to compete with.

Yes, we've been over the fact that you are completely fucking clueless but still post your garbage fucking opinions which hold absolutely zero amount of value.

You are clueless.

pretty sure holy paladin is the best healer? second being resto druid and priests are in last? from what I remember.

Over and over again you were proven wrong about everything you claimed. Now you resort to derailing the thread. Please stop.

You are calling someone who keeps proving you wrong retarded, what does that make you?

>He thinks females are going to play classic

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Why should I care how other guilds are progressing? This isn't a race, we're not trying to be the #1 guild on the server. Is everything a competition to you?

You should have dropped the tranquil air argument when you were called out on it the first time. This is just pathetic.

Holy paladin is trash. As are druids.

Shaman = Priest > whatever no one cares because they are equally trash.

>it's another clueless "I cleared Naxx in retail" LARPer with 5 (you)s per post
Man, every WoW thread is the fucking same.

>Over and over again you were proven wrong about everything you claimed.
You did not AT ANY POINT provide ANY EVIDENCE whatsoever to back up your assertions.

Meanwhile when hit in the face by facts your response was "we're not talking about retail"?????????????????????????

Seriously, you should be banned from Yea Forums.

>I can twist and heal at the same time!
Oh no, my tank died again and I have to wipe in vanilla raids.

The only person you are calling out is yourself by showcasing your sheer and utter lack of knowledge about the topic being discussed.

>people are bitching about a 5 minute difference in clear time in content that used to take guilds literal months to complete
>people acting like this is genuinely, ACTUALLY a reason to pick one side over the other in a game that's built around playing with your friends
Are you people by any chance retarded? Is WoW the only thing going on in your life that you need to be like autistic speedrunners?

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Scroll through the thread, everything I claim is backed up by evidence. You on the contrary has only uttered your feelings and opinions with no proof to back up any of your retarded claims.

Again your lack of knowledge shows.

only if you're playing with a true super tryhard diaper guild of neets, do you still have no job and no obligations and a group of like minded individuals willing to waste months of their life just to kill 15 years old content?

>This thread
>All these deranged lunatics screeching at each other over shit no sane person would ever care about

yeesh

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If you're not first, you might as well be last.

It's not about competition. It's just not fair for the rest of the raid to be held back by a bunch of trannies playing meme specs when they could play the spec that is actually viable for their class. Playing a night elf priest is borderline acceptable, but playing a shitty spec is just selfish.

Moving the goalposts are we?

It's okay to be wrong, you should accept it and learn from it.

Please tell me more about how shaman will totem twist tranq air and WF perfectly for me all knowing autist.

i agree completely, fuck gnomes, and fuck minmaxers

>Is WoW the only thing going on in your life that you need to be like autistic speedrunners?

yeah pretty much

keep in mind these kind of spergs are going to be 1% of the population that actually plays classic, just like they were back in the good ol days

they will play in their own bubble

When we decide to reveal that, we will. For now accept the fact that you are wrong and please stop posting fake information in these threads.

Horde sucks dick in pvp even more than it does in pve tho. Alliance has double dispell. Horde has priests who die in gcd to geared warriors and engaging gameplay of siting every cc till dr against ally paladin priest warrior mage stacked premades.

>Scroll through the thread, everything I claim is backed up by evidence.
But it's not. That's why people keep calling you out. Nothing you've said is backed up. In fact it's very clear to me that you've never played a shaman. You have no fucking clue about their mechanics, let alone their mechanics in retail vanilla.

Totem timing was incredibly important in progression raiding in vanilla. The difference between 1-2 seconds to pulse after fear and 4-5 seconds to pulse after fear was literally life or death.

I really can't say this enough: you need to be banned from Yea Forums, but at the very least you need to shut the fuck up about subjects you clearly do not know anything about.

You may be a "hard core" raider on some bootleg server, but none of them are running retail vanilla. Which is what Blizzard is saying we'll get.

I got up to the 4 horsecunts and there's still plenty about the game I don't know.
The >everyone knows literally everything literally guys! posters are fucking retarded.

>paladin
>bless salvation and carry on with healing

>shaman
>perfectly twist totems every 10 seconds while trying to not the let raid die with your non-existent mana pool
lol

Most guilds are just playing to have fun. And the fact is, since enrage timers didn't exist in vanilla, it's not like you need a set amount of dps to beat content. Especially since the bosses have braindead mechanics.

I mean, what's the most complex fight in Vanilla? Thaddeus? All it requires is going left or right.

Keep dreaming, shammyfag, nothing beats a priest in healing

Clueless once again.

Horde has shamans, enough said.

>imagine not wanting to experience epic banter chatting with your mates while waiting for quest mobs to respawn

As I said, scroll through the thread. Every claim is backed up by evidence.

There is no such thing as totem timing because fear times are not static. Also fear is not a problem so I'm not even sure why this argument is made to begin with.

>held back
user, the thing that held back raids in vanilla was not "not enough dps" (though it was often gear), it was getting 40 people that had stable enough internet connection and several hours to spare.

This.
Alliance have an easier time in raids but who gives a shit about playing with elves and trannies.

Shamans do, sorry.

Horde literally never loses in AV. Admittedly, it's because they cheat and it makes it impossible for Horde to lose so that probably won't be allowed in Classic.

>As I said, scroll through the thread. Every claim is backed up by evidence.
No, it is not.

not as gay

I miss my raid group

you haven't actually backed up anything you've said

That the one that allows them to drag the flag out of bounds where no one can get it?
I know that shit ain't gonna be a thing.

No, that's WSG. They cheat in AV because they use wall climbing to bypass all the shit they need to go through to reach the alliance base and end up right by Vann.

Oh so it was like scaling a mountain of dicks with your tongue instead of travelling across a desert of balls with your own balls and being executed at the end before you can say no homo. I understand now thanks.

Yes but the dicks are made of sandpaper

See the following posts, since you are mentally challenged:

I'm going to raid as a Starshards Priest and no one can stop me!

Not the people you're arguing with but You're what's wrong with WoW

it's literally just without a lack of furries, aliens, spaceships, le epic storylines that aren't grounded in any way, people enjoyed playing novices and recruits of their orders, etc.
based campfire roleplay

5min difference in clear time is huge. Not all people are into hardcore PvE which is fine, but people who spew bullshit and posts fake information is something I can't let pass.

please stop arguing anons

we're going home

rejoice

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>people enjoyed playing novices and recruits of their orders
I really hate the "filthy unwashed peasant" mindset, because anyone who dares to aspire to anything higher in the game is called a snowflake.

>5min difference in clear time is huge.
Not to 99% of the people that actually play the game. You're acting like everyone else thinks like you do, when most players just want to play with their friends and don't care if MC takes 2 hours as long as they're having fun.

when's this shit come out again?

>is something I can't let pass.
>he is actually bothered by people saying bullshit in a thread that's going to die and be forgotten anyway
Unironic autism.

Summer (TM)

When it comes to the fastest run being a whole five minutes ahead of the 2nd fastest run that is quite the margin. Not everyone cares, that is true and no one has a problem with that.

The problem is all the people who posts fake news bullshit claims, regardless of what they think about clear times. It's false information and it needs to be fought.

That is not an argument for posting false information.

>all this arguing so you can have less fun playing the game for less time

>The problem is all the people who posts fake news bullshit claims, regardless of what they think about clear times. It's false information and it needs to be fought.
No the problem is you think this shit matters to anyone outside of autists like you.

>That is not an argument for posting false information.
Yes it is. Just let it go, who cares what other people say?

Summer
Didn't say when at summer, but IMO probably early summer because ffxiv's new expansion launches at the start of summer.

Of course it matters.

False information is false information and needs to be corrected, regardless of how many that cares.