Do modern games still use hotboxes...

Bottom left is smash

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Lol

the more accurate detection you mention really doesnt change much at all at best, makes stuff unpredictable and inconsistent at worst, plus its been proven that players dont actually feel good the more precise the hitboxes are, sometimes the boxes are made obviously smaller couse otherwise the player feels cheated, even when its accurate

bottom left is mortal kombat

>btw they increase a lot the input lag
t. reatard
you know nothing about compter

Smash is closer to bottom left than anything else. Bottom right is Monster Hunter’s Plesioth.

bottom right is me... in real life

smash uses sphere and they are attached to the body, thats more like marvel (which also uses circles but they are just as retarded as depicted)

bottom left maybe sf5?

>make hit detection based on actual polygons of the models
>everything becomes an annoying mess of "I should have hit him why didn't it count"
>cpus all over the world cry and burst into flames

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That's wii fit trainer hitboxes

that would be computationally expensive. plus simple boxes are consistent and often feel better at top levels of play than more accurate boxes.

that huge hitbox kick is definitely sagat, the one true king

Where is this from?

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Apex Legends judging from the background

dumbass skullgirl player detected

>These days 3D games already have a set of points making convex polygons that you could use to easily check for overlaps
Just cause that's how they're rendered doesn't mean it's computationally feasible to do hit detection like this in real time.

It feels kind of pointless to have such accurate hit detection when a multiplayer environment already has so much latency. It's pretty likely that the person you're shooting at is a solid meter or more away from their perceived location even with a good connection.

The only game I know of that had per-polygon skeletal mesh collisions is shadow of the colossus because they didn't have a choice on such big creatures.

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Simple hitboxes are so common because they're computationally cheap as fuck, good enough for >95% of cases and allow balance tweaks to be made extremely easily. Unless one of your game's selling points is precise on-model hitboxes, even wacky abstract hitboxes like the bottom right can make a super tight game.

CSGO hitboxes are pretty shit.
I don't know what exactly is wrong with them but the only way to "consistently" hit someone in the head is to put your crosshair ABOVE their head (or at least the very top of their head).
It's just such a weird feeling.

>Monster Hunter’s Plesioth

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Its source engine. I'm a little disappointed in you, Yea Forums

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>1:1 hitdetection
>But game has no model to determine contact depth
>End result is that players can't tell apart glancing hits, missing and balls deep impaling
>Ends up with a horrible game feel unless its a shooting game

Even worse:
>Pixel game
>Hit detection is bound to sprite boxes instead of anything resembling the area they cover
>Randomly getting hits across empty pixels whenever there is ANY kind of diagonal action

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What are the most powerful fighting game hitboxes?

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Why is everyone shitting on smash hitboxes? They're usually pretty sensible, with the only weird things happening because of 3d quirks.

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kek

dude wii fit lmao

twitter.com/MikeZSez/status/1098854450259607553?s=19
Why is he such a self-obsessive retard?

>background
>hunched
Apex. If you remove Wraith and the background it would be a bit harder.

Now post her dsmash

Also his up tilt in 64

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>tilts
>64
user.

*kills your game*

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dat hitsphere jiggle

That's side b bro

Smash Bros is still the king of retarded hitboxes. They got better since the Wii U smash, but when you're playing a lot you'll still see some stupid janky hitbox shit.

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I'm looking at her hitboxes rn and her jab1 is weird, but the rest make sense. What am I missing here? She's supposed to be unconventional.

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is snake trying to be a human swastika?

>allow balance tweaks to be made extremely easily
Number one reason, a layer of abstraction between visuals and game logic. Can you imagine having to rework the sprites / model / animation every time you wanted to change the way the mechanics worked?

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Bottom right is smash Wii fit trainer

I don't have it saved but it's five circles on the ground that get slightly bigger on last hit. Why don't you post it and explain what's wrong with it?

They could, but it significantly changes the feel of the game. The early versions of SF4 had model-based hit detection but everyone who tried it hated it so they went back to the old hitbox style (#1 in OP's pic).

Computers are really fast, there's no way some polygon intersection is going to blow your budget.

Several reasons hitboxes/spheres/capsules are here to stay:

-It's magnitudes easier and less expensive to check for hitbox intersection than triangle model intersection. Like, for hitboxes you need additions, for triangle soup you need a bunch of geometric formulas.
-Checking for intersections between skinned characters is real hell. Normally skinning is computed by the GPU because it's an expensive bunch of operations, but to be able to detect collisions you need to do it on CPU (which is expensive) or get the result back from the GPU (which is laggy).
-The more complex a collision model is, the harder it is to change for balance. if you character animation is your collision model, you can't change balance without changing the character's design or animations. If it's just a bunch of boxes on top, you only need ot change the boxes.
-sometimes you want a behavior that doesn't match the displayed geometry. The classic one is moving characters usually are represented by capsules for collision with the stage because a full model would keep getting stuck on angles.

In Fighting games, hitboxes should obviously be completly thought out. Not accurate, but balanced.
In other games, like shooters, hitboxes should be tied to the Model somewhat. Maybe just a tad bit smaller, so gracing hits don't add extra spaghetti code.

Mitsuru in Arena

talking about smash, why the fuck doesn't ultimate have a native hitbox and hurtbox viewer like any proper training mode, people have to do janky shit like turning on invincibility views and giving people stars to see hurtboxes, what the hell goes through sakurai's mind when he does shit like this

Bottom Left is classic tekken

i hate that they are attached to the models and are 3d, but im impressed of how few problems that actually makes

Other than the fact it can do 60+ damage and covers an enormous amount of space? Nothing.

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you do realize that there is more to compute in a video game than just hitboxes, right?

This. Also, checkd.

The weird thing is they have fixes for weird z-axis jank with how Flatzone works but they don't bring that over to all the stages for some reason

based tekken

It really is. That's one of the reasons why we make every polygon convex, because it makes this computation trivial.

yes, tilts were in 64 my dude.

thats pretty normal if snake hitted an extended hitbox, its just that the hit animation doesnt account for that, heres another example of that

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I'm not saying it's not a strong move, but the hitboxes make sense. Her dress is missing in this render, making it look like it stretches way farther off her visible model than it actually does.

>Skullgirls
I don't quite get it but it's still making me kek anyway

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different user here.
if you would put in the model with the dress it would look more sensible. also
>panties

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Smash is kind of a mix of top left and bottom left. Some characters in later games like Brawl Snake and I think Palutena kinda push it into bottom-right territory.

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Brawl Snake was notable for some extreme fuckery with his hitboxes, see the leg extension some posts above that

Skullgirls had way too much work put into it.

They had really accurate hitboxes at first but that shit was wonky so they went back to standard ones.

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It's laggy because too much hitbox data.

Fun fact omega/triplat Flatzone and Duck Hunt are banned in tournaments BECAUSE of that

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No, Snake's uTilt in smash has a brief single frame where, for some reason, the vertical hitbox is horizontal instead, giving him atrocious range.

Two fighters in 2D fighting game are not going to have noticible difference ocmpared to bounding box.
What the fuck is sucking up all your compute time for a 2d fighting game?

It's probably the most accurate parody, the hit/hurtboxes in Skullgirls are very closely tailored to the animations.

You wouldn't eat 60 damage if you stopped trying to CC constantly.

ostensibly they could just use the same geometry as the model, even foregoing collision meshes. the problem, ofc, is the insane amount of calculation involved in responding. everything has to be recalculated, not just redrawn. I argue that higher poly collision meshes are inevitable and could be run on dedicated cpu/gpu hybrid chipsets not unlike the days of having to purchase an audio card to get anything other than midi tones. even still, it's a long way off. I'm not sure the quality of hitboxes would be directly proportional to an increase in enjoyment though.

Snakes hitboxes in brawl were absolutely retarded and he could utilt people from a mile away.

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The weird thing about Peach's down smash is that it mostly works fine until the opponent DIs or crouch cancels. Completely unintentional, but a really strange dynamic where techniques only the best of the best employ are the worst thing they can do in that situation and they have to train themselves to just let that move rock.

>Dark Souls 2 player hitbox

>brief single frame

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I dislike fighting games with accurate hitboxes like MK and Skullgirls. Imagine being in a fast-paced match, and your opponent touches your toe, so now you're in hitstun because of it. Being in a fast-paced game, you probably wouldn't have noticed it touching a small part of you, so it would look like they didn't touch you at all. Also,
>whiffing your attacks because MK's idle animations have them sway back and forth a lot and the hurtboxes are attached to character model.

you guys wanna talk about hitboxes?

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So, yes, they do, and the reason is that they are better than using the actual polygon checks. If you would make a fighting game using those, you would just feel the "un-responsiveness". If you wan't, let's say, a punch, it of course feels much better when you hit if the hitbox is actually bigger than it seems, otherwise it feels weaker. That way you can make some moves feel really powerful. It's very rare to see a game that does not "cheat" with collision to make things "feel" better. For example, in most shooting games the bullets don't come from the gun you see in the screen: that gun is just a visual to make you feel like your shooting with something.
So to answer to you, the reason hitboxes are still used and will be used probably years and years is that they make good game design.

whose dumbass idea was this

Sure

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I mean that's for a beam move, right?

ArcSystem, the kings of hitboxes

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>Do modern games still use hotboxes?
A lot of games don't. iirc most Ass Creed titles didn't for example until recently. Some attacks in the bam ham games are also programmed with a different logic.
Also this. Most of the time making the hitboxes too realistic can work against the game instead of doing them by hand. Things like giving the player a smaller hurtbox during a jump/dodge maneuver or making the hitbox of a strong move bigger than the actual animations can help a lot at making the game more enjoyable for the player.

Consistency and balance >>>>>> realism.

>I'm not sure the quality of hitboxes would be directly proportional to an increase in enjoyment though
It wouldn't. Without a corresponding increase in the amount of control you have over the character, which I don't know how you would achieve, you'd whiff for days and it would feel garbage.

Yeah. It was a good day one blow up move.

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Good post, user.

it's weird knowing these two are in the same game

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I had no idea Duck Hunt even had the 2d effect until I heard about that ban.

>Visualization of Snake's up tilt. The first part of the hitboxes are detonated by the three hitboxes away from his body, while the second part are attached to his leg.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

>guy who tries to shit on smash doesn't actually know how it works
Every time

What a FREAK

Can't wait

how does she keep it from falling

Cute potato

the crown is part of her

Wanted the absolute fuck for them to be in
>Marie
>Minette

>would have liked to have seen
>Scythana
>Umbrella
>Ileum
>Annie
>Panzerfaust
>Feng
I remember being a bit sad that Eliza won when they announced her but I've grown to really love her over time. All the dlc characters are pretty good, even Robo Fortune is unique and interesting I feel. I still wish we got Umbrella or Marie over Valentine like they intended though.

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God this is such a retarded way of doing things im amazed this genre is still popular

Yes. Mortal Kombat 9's biggest complaint actually despite having a perfect roster is that they tried to use 3d detection to replace it and it created a lot of combo inconsistencies. I never had much of a problem with it, but you could definitely feel at times how different it was.

That is definitely not smash.

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haha yeah fuck balance

>all these fantastic character designs that will never be used
Fuck them for giving the community a choice in the first place

>Even if modern computation allows this, in multiplayer games the amount of data transferred combined with ping would kill the consistency and purpose of complicated collision meshes to the point where it'd be wiser to have very simple hitboxes most of the time.
>It's why arena shooters are competitive to begin with.
Why not simply do all collision detection locally on both clients and then compare results to prevent cheating?

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*BOOM*
*BOOM*
*CRASH*
That's all it takes for an opponent to poke you and start a combo. Why don't you own a projectile?

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My assist dog has I-frames.

bottom right is apex legends non-wraith

She is one

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>being in the immediate area of my hitboxes

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>stubby as fuck normals
just outrange him, his neutral is dead anyway

HIPCHECK!
HIPCHECK!
IM DEAD!

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The othe ones are spot on so why is smash so exagerated

smash bad my fightan good

Yes, dummy. Hitboxes are about balance. Not hardware limitation. That's why people are throwing a shitfit about pic related

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Why? It was a great way to create hype. It just sucks as characters like Minette and Annie basically made it to top four every time and would only just barely lose. I wish we could have at least got Marie, Minette, and Umbrella. Ahad pushed to have Umbrella so hard, every character even has unused voice lines for her, but they just couldn't do it. If the rights ever get sorted out maybe we can hope for something I guess. MikeZ, Ahad, and the others still care about Skullgirls, it's just in a weird situation legally right now.

Thats why you always main short and fast no matter the game

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Every game in existence uses hitboxes you buffoon.

no you main the biggest hitbox so when you kill short and fast they are humiliated you tryhard

Hitboxes feel correct.

>what the hell goes through sakurai's mind when he does shit like this
They absolutely had the tools internaly made for development. They dislike the tournamentfags that much

yall niggas got nothing

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Now that's some SNK boss shit.

Only 2D games tend to use actual boxes. 3D games use volumes built up of convex shapes

GRIM REAPAH

>GENOCIDE
>CUTTER

Any 2D shooting game would feel retarded with 1:1 collision

What did they mean by this?

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You don't use visual geometry for collisions for gameplay reasons, not because it's too complex to calculate (it isn't)

>in-game characters have in-universe power levels

what games do this?

Looks like they meant for you to jump in and make her whiff the attack.

Not that one

Can someone actually show me Omega Rugal's genocide cutter hitbox? is there a resource for this?

after all these years i must know. that fucking bullshit ass move. good luck beating omega rugal on difficulty 7 or 8 without being some kind of korean autist

Shockwaves

We're doing Under Night?

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Sup

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from KoF 95 that is

Where do people get the data for this shit? Just autistic amounts of trial and error, or do the games end up getting hacked?

maybe learn to read before you @ me faggot.

Some fighting games like Skullgirls have it in their training mode, some games like Melee have it in a fairly easily accessed debug mode, some games need modification.

Hacking access to the debug modes and some games even have the data available without any fuckery.

CHESTO

Games being hacked. Hell, most modern fighters let you turn on hitboxes in training mode.

There isn't an insane amount of computation to do. It's quite trivial on modern computers

Impressive autism

MikeZ's autism on fighting games is pretty amazing really. He once made a two hour video on a single mechanic in MvC2 and how he incorporated it into Skullgirls.

pretty much any game that features movement that isnt limited to a fixed rail system have hitboxes
2d, 3d etc. they might impliment their version of hitboxes differently but their hitbox models invariably have less polygons then their graphical models. attacks/abilities, creature/npc/players, terrain and props. all of these will follow the trend of high poly visual model and low poly hitbox.

I know the training bots in Overwatch have pixel perfect hitboxes. It might be easier on them though as they have pretty angular bodies.

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youtube.com/watch?v=Hpn8X9uhKIM

Lets see those mains Yea Forums

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what does it have to do with balance?

Doesn't he also refuses to play Xrd with passion and is instent on playing AC+ to this day?

>Nash
>Hazama
>Hyde
>Rock/Mai/Iori
>Nova/Taskmaster/Vergil

idk why i have to explain my post to you when you can't comprehend it. ofc it's not used in games because one mesh is used exclusively to render out an image and the other is used to give the illusion of interacting within a virtual environment. one is handled almost exclusively by the GPU, the other is used by the CPU, which does in fact take large amounts of computation, which is why collision meshes are often simple geometry. doing both at once does take an insane amount of computation, which is probably why no one has done it other than to test it's viability. and it isn't viable, even if you had a dedicated processor to handle it (because i wrote one of only a handful of papers i know to exist on the subject). however, in context with the thread, i still believe at some point you will see single mesh rendering and collision, maybe not for fighting games, but certainly for some cases where it might make sense. for example removing clipping entirely or higher interaction between objects.

>people are actually trying to say bottom right isn't smash
I love Smash, but that's no reason to lie about it. Some characters have very out of place hitboxes that have no reason to be there, take Cloud for example.

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No it doesn't take an insane amount of computation, you're talking out your ass
>because i wrote one of only a handful of papers i know to exist on the subject
lmao

Can someone post Capcom Vs SNK 2 Athena's cr.HP? I loved spamming that shit probably one of the weirdest ones out there.

Also Street Fighter Alpha 2 Rose cr.MP

Needs to be Vergil or Dormammu's ariel S.

too lazy to fill it out with pictures
>sf3
Akuma
>SF4
Akuma/Ibuki
>SFV
lol
>Guilty Gear
Slayer
>Soul Calibur
2B
>Mortal Kombat
Smoke
>Skullgirls
Valentine
>Dead or Alive
Momiji, Nyotengu, Rig, and Phase 4
>Tekken
Eliza
>Killer Instinct
Cinder

which video/mechanic?

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Can't wait for EVO

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He meant that all of Smash's hitboxes are circular or elliptic, not square.

The light blue is from energy and the light red is from his body thrusting

>accidentally do 214b instead of fireball at top of screen
>go kicking all the way to the opposite end
It's hilarious every time

Hopefully no akatsukis in top 8

that's what skullgirls hitboxes are, ironically they make the game feel inconsistent

This one will always be the king of hitboxes.

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main a man, kids
finding porn of your main feels weird and unnatural

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if Akatsuki makes top 8 it'll be the closest Blitzkampf has ever gotten to the main stage
think about that

The faded red makes sense, as its just showing where the hitboxes are moving from and doesn't affect anything. The light blue is an actual hitbox and is just stupid, why the fuck would his torso deal damage when all he's doing is swinging a sword?

Hip check
Hip check
Hip check

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O hai

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It happened last year.

All of those work as intended? first is his dash attack, so the body hitbox is to avoid whiffing at close range. second is his up-air, a lower hitbox so it isn't useless against shorter character. It's meant to be him raising his sword from below. Third is his upsmash, again makes sense.

Fuck off, it's much better than Gord/Hilda nonsense.
God bless.

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yeah but that was AnimEVO
moving one step at a time, user

>Gord/Hilda nonsense
UNIEL was years ago, those two are rare picks nowadays. Get with the times
Hopefully the Japanese Gods put Akatsuki in his place.

Guess I'm off the loop then. Who are the main picks now?

Akatsuki also got buffed to shit, he's close-range pressure is literally the best in the game.
>main picks
Phonon is really popular, imagine if Gord traded a command grab for a fireball.

>yeah, lets just throw extra hitboxes in places they don't belong so he doesn't miss!
That's just bad design. The hitbox should be attached to the actual attack and only that, none of this stupid shit where the torso hurt for no reason or the air two feet below the attack hurts for no reason.
Also his up air would hit short characters even without that blue hitbox, he starts off stabbing the sword really low to the ground and then bringing it up, the blue is totally unnecessary.

most jej

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Yeah, but that's mostly because he's a diehard potemkin autist and pot is low tier and kinda boring in xrd
>bitches about yrc and prc making everything safe and non-committal
>*puts assist hornet bomber in his game*

what did you expect from Krillin tho, really?

It's funny because one of the official artists for chun li focused on her legs because he had a fetish for that.

Are you calling someone a tryhard for picking the easier character while you legitimately have to try harder with your choice. You are so confused.

u wot m8 thats a weak fucking manji she didnt even hold one of her elbows up to the side of her head

>skull girl hitbox is a riemann sum

nice! definitely stealing this haha :)

not much to be honest
could've at least given him a better 2H tho

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EZ

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youtube.com/watch?v=koLLGajAK4g

those are collision boxes you fucking retard

because his nipples get very hard when attacking obviously

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isnt this some kind of AOE clear skill that costs HP to use?

DP

excuse me,

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> running into someone like with a dash attack doesn't hurt

That's literally what most dash attacks are for characters who don't have swords.

> Also his up air would hit short characters even without that blue hitbox, he starts off stabbing the sword really low to the ground and then bringing it up, the blue is totally unnecessary.

That doesn't have a hitbox anymore, that was the case in Smash 4 where you could reliably hit a falling up-air with Cloud.

Sometimes hitboxes aren't exclusively on the object itself, they're where it feels it'd be right, that's normal.

That's autoknockdown (meaning no damage) and is quite negative on block, user. It's use as an ender for some confirm, you never use whip other than 5c on neutral.

Yeah none of that matters. Any online shooters worth a damn make use of a client-server hybrid with synchronized hit detection through a per-client rollback based on latency. A hitbox can be as precise and detailed as you want it because the only thing the server has to tell you is where the other guys are at the moment; your own system will place the model's hitboxes.

One of the most precise methods is basically making the 3D model 2D. A number of first person shooters make use of per-pixel hit detection for hitscan weapons. The "hitbox" is rendered to be effectively identical to the silhouette of whatever it is you're shooting at.
However, they still have to use simple collision boxes for any projectiles.

That's because CS (and all Valve games) still make use of a garbage detection system with poor sync and shit interpolation where you don't see what the server sees, so you can't actually rely on what you're aiming at. Instead of an accurate synchronization, they opt for some really fucking retarded "predictive" system where it overcompensates by shoving the model ahead of where the character is actually moving just so it can catch up to the delay in the server telling you what's happening. It's why CSfags still cry about tickrates because they actually need the overwhelming amount of data to minimize the fucking retarded system.

I like the way Cloud thrusts

The only games pushing technology forward are new Sony exclusives. God of War 2018 for example doesn't use traditional hitboxes and instead checks the polygons. It also doesn't use hitstop, instead opting for a far more real-to-life inverse kinesthetics to get the same effects but without goofy time freezing like in super autistic brothers. (Look up GoW hitstop on YouTube)

>hotboxes
Are those like pizza storage things to keep them fresh and warm?

Bottom right is DBFZ

You don't know what you're talking about. Collision events are calculated by your system. They just report whether or not they collided to the server, along with timestamps.

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no, they're when you light up a bunch of joints in a small area so everyone inside gets stoned

>point out that guy has no idea what he's talking about
>receive crying wojack

Bottom left is Toribash

I played super autistic brothers for years competitively and the hitboxes are ass, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Almost every character that isn't bottom tier has a move with a ridiculous hitbox that doesn't match the visual

feast your eyes on my hitbox

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Yep, the smellies are right on time to flood the thread with their garbage

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Bottom right isn't Smash, it's lethal league.
Bottom left is Smash.

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OK, this is epic.

would you describe the experience as like being inside of a bong?

I don't know man, I don't smoke the devil's lettuce

why is his foot hurtbox so fucking big
why doesn't he have a hitbox above him

why does black's 2H extend so fucking far up above his head
why is his hurtbox so small compared to beerus'

1 > 3 > 2 = 4

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Siege hitboxes are interesting. Actually that entire game is interesting.

Kek

Due to being character-focused games, fighting game models tend to have highly detailed skeletons with very high bones counts, so a lot of CPU time is spent computing poses for the current frame (which is something that's traditionally not delegated to GPU due to animation sizes, and if you did you couldn't use the GPU-computed poses for collision without adding lag because it takes an extra two frames to transfer buffers back from GPU to CPU).

What's more, modern game networking models intended to minimize lag (which you may know under the moniker of rollback models) require that you be able to simulate X update loops in a single frame, where X is the maximum lag value you want to compensate, so you have to keep the update loops as tight as possible and collisions are the most expensive bit.

>the only porn of peacock is that one autist who self-inserts
JUST

i'm trying to figure out the question here
a bounding box compared to what now?

>i hate that they are attached to the models and are 3d
if you developed fighting games, you'd realize this is fairly natural

the one on her ass looks like a diaper haha anyone got pics of peach in a diaper

>tfw he doesn't do her as much anymore

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based

I've recently been feeling a desire to get into fighting games. Which ones have a good balance between being really fun and being relatively easy to get good at and get a solid foundation from? I'm thinking of getting either Tekken 7 or UNIST, maybe something else if I'm convinced I'd like it better.

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MELTY BLOOD
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Bottom right pisses me off so much, every action MMO uses it on the broken, OP, fotm classes while every other class has to use top right's hitscan but with top left's hitbox

Snake's model was intended to be bigger, but they shrunk it kinda last second without adjusting his hitboxes. This is the result.

UNIST is probably going to teach you the most, it'll be no problem to transfer fundamentals from one game to another once you get knee deep into it.

youtube.com/watch?v=eWO6iDefd-g

*kills your game*

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>These days 3D games already have a set of points making convex polygons that you could use to easily check for overlaps
You don't realize how expensive that is to do.
Everything still uses hitboxes, mesh collisions are used but it's only for very specific things

I know that one gets posted a lot, but is very misleading. The pic doesn't have the particle effects, which when you look at them it's more accurate, and it's the third attack of an autocombo, starting like at frame 41, which is pretty slow. Is because of that that you will never saw someone trying to hit with that attack, because you leave her in a pretty bad position and the chances to hit with just that attack are very slim. Not only that but dtilt and utilt were miles better as a combo starter.
Bayo was OP, but hitboxes were not the reason for that.