Is this the best Zelda game ever?

It certainly "looks" the best at least. Not in terms of graphics, but in terms of spectacle. All of the boss fights are designed to make Link feel like a crazy superhero.

FACT: It sold the most

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>most interesting combat system in the series with options
>best dungeons in the series
>good boss fights
>good soundtrack
admittedly, the beginning is a chore, but once you get past lakebed it really opens up

its really good, and I enjoy it the most

>dem dungeons
>Illia
>based as fuck snowboarding
>best fishing hole in the series
>top shelf bossfights
>rassling in the goron mines
>ball and chain
>2/3rds of the draogn boss fight were rad as fuck
>king bulbin refights and the shootout in the western town
>all dem hidden moves you can learn

if they made the wolf fights better, itd be a 10/10 for me

Until BotW happened. Which sucks as BotW's a bit shit but whatever.

I saw this video a couple weeks ago and thought it was interesting.

youtube.com/watch?v=BTsgWepH3GY

Pros
>Some of the best dungeons in the series
>Best sword combat in the series
>Mostly very fun bosses that actually have to be "solved" beyond hitting them with the dungeon item until their butt glows
>Easily the most interesting plot backdrop and secondary villain

Cons
>Many "key" items that serve literally no purpose beyond using them to open a specific kind of door. The Spinner, Command Rod, and Ball & Chain come to mind
>Wolf Link is underutilized, and not as fun to just play with as it should be
>The world feels very empty; possibly hardware limitations, but even Ocarina felt more "lived in".
>A lot of the shit there is to do in the world just gives you more fucking rupees, which, magic armor aside, there is very rarely anything to do with.

Mixed
>Soundtrack was overall very good, maybe even above average, but I have a hard time really placing any singular, standout music.
>Many of the character models looked... disturbing. It made for memorable designs, but for most of them, this wasn't a memorable I ever wanted to see again

Interesting thing about Twilight Princess's music is that, while it's not actually memorable, it does an excellent job of setting the tone. It's eerie when it needs to be, dramatic when it needs to be, sad when it needs to be, and it always hits just the right tone to lift the atmosphere. The music isn't something you're really gonna remember after you beat the game, but it also really does a great job of accentuating the mood. Twilight Princess' music isn't designed to make you pay attention to the music, but instead it's designed to make you forget the music while simultaneously throwing the full weight of it at you for maximum effect.

God I can't wait til this shit rolls of the "le hidden gem" part of the treadmill

Agreed. Despite turning up the bombast on occasion TP is a very understated game overall and the music matches that very well.

I guess I feel that.
For me, at least, it just feels weird to not hum something for a few weeks after I replay a Zelda.

Breath of the wild

Shit sold like 8 million copies on Wii alone, no one in their right mind is calling this a hidden gem. It's just a gem.

not enough direction in that game IMO. feels soulless

>>Mostly very fun bosses that actually have to be "solved" beyond hitting them with the dungeon item until their butt glows
I remember the first time I fought the City in the Sky boss, it took me several tries to even figure out exactly how to hurt it at every stage.
I don't remember which part of it, but there was a part where I would deal damage, but not actually know how I did it.
When I played it again, it came back to me and I did fine, but that first time puzzling it out was like, the first, and I think last time in a Zelda game where I lost to a boss while not doing some challenge, or as a dumb kid who didn't know what he was doing.

Twilight Princess's music is something you're not gonna notice when it's there, but definitely gonna miss when it's gone. Especially in dungeons, the music feels like it's just "naturally" part of the environment. Like it's just SUPPOSED to be there, to the point where its absence would almost feel UNnatural, even though music isn't normally natural at all. The music and the dungeons become "one" so to speak. It's pretty impressive.

Breath of the Wild is a great concept, it just absolutely needs a MM or something to refine it into something truly great.

That game is one that I think could be the best Zelda game up to now, at least.
Until then, BotW is just a very interesting tech demo. I say this as someone who adores BotW.

>that part where you plummet to the ground to knock off its armour and just stab it repeatedly >spidermaning between those pillars to get high enough while it swoops in and breathes fire on one pillar, and you have to zip to the other to avoid it

3rd phase was ass because you cant zip behind it while its breathing fire, you have to wait for it to just stop and float there like an idiot

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>puzzles
MM > BOTW > SS > TP > OOT > WW
>exploration
BOTW > WW > MM > OOT > TP > SS
>combat
BOTW > TP > WW > SS > MM > OOT
>story/characters
MM > WW > TP > SS > OOT > BOTW
>variety
MM > OOT> TP > WW > SS > BOTW
>overall
MM > BOTW > WW = TP > OOT = SS

Prove me wrong

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I dont know how you can possibly think BotW doesnt have the most variety

not liking it is one thing, but its objectively the most ambitious

I'm a huge TP fan, it's actually my favorite game, but I'm shocked to see so many people defend the bosses. I honestly think that they're some of the worst in the series on average. At the very least some of the all-time worst ones are present like Morpheel and Armogohma. Some of them like Stallord or Argorok are fun to go through the motions but most of them underwhelmed to me. I think the only time a boss stumped me was the Diababa part of Zant's fight, maybe I understood Zelda logic by then but I thought they were pretty simple to put together. Only Zant and Ganondorf were particularly great bosses IMO.

why didn't you rank the dungeons? or is that supposed to be "puzzles"? either way, i think BOTW having the best exploration is wrong. its overworld is so empty and way too large, same problem wind waker had. MM has the best exploration because its big but quick to navigate w/ goron/epona.

music:
Oot > MM >TP = WW >>> SS >>> BotW

Combat deserves to be split into swordplay and item-based.

>swordplay
TP > OoT = MM > WW > SS >>>>> BotW

>item-based
BotW > WW >>>>> OoT = MM > SS > TP

Almost. The dungeons were the best in the series, the tone was cool, the enemy variety was really vast, and it had Ganondorf. My biggest criticisms are the wolf parts and how passive and easy the enemies are.

How can other Zelda games compete in terms of enemy variety?

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>attack with wolf form
>have to wait for the enemy to GET BACK UP to attack it again
>no finishing move to kill it ala "glancing blow"
what the actual fuck were they thinking?

Link's Awakening is the best Zelda

that applies to WW too. Nothing infuriated me more then knocking over a moblin and mashing A while his sword just slides right through their bodies doing jack shit, then they get up and hit me while he's finishing his animation

Most of the variety in BotW is just an illusion.
There are three swords, a bow, a boomerang, a bomb, and three more "dungeon" items, which is already skinny for a Zelda game
>But Stasis!
Yes, Stasis is one of the better Zelda items, but I think it's fair to balance that against Cryonis, which is pretty much a switch-hitter.

Enemy variety isn't as bad as the memes say. Not counting the endless variants on chuchus and keese, I think BotW and TP actually had fairly comparable bestiaries. The critical difference is how similar those enemies are to fight.
Yes, there are a million ways to faff about that bokoblin camp, as there have been in every zelda game (at least, ones that had bokoblins, switch in whatever enemy you prefer), but moreso in BotW than in any other game, outside of the opening minutes when the novelty is there, there is very rarely any incentive to not just charge in, bomb and Stasis things, and hit them until they die with your worst equipment.

The game runs into the issues that some other Zelda games do too, like TP actually. There is all of this stuff to do, but your only reward for doing it is more stuff you have no use for. You can argue that it's in the experience of doing it, and that's great, but that can apply to any game that you like.

The sense of individual freedom and adventure IS nice, but that's more a Metroid thing than a Zelda one. Zelda is a game where you need stuff to put into context.

Final point, the four guardians literally feel like 4 small chunks of one big dungeon, meaning the game basically only has 2 dungeons. That is not a full Zelda game.

Knocking enemies down was the worst addition to 3D Zelda games, it ruined the combat.

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mashing b*

If BotW had the enemy/boss variety of ocarina of Time, and you still didn't think it was the best Zelda of all time, you would have to be a jaded, delusional retard

We're doing this now? Okay.

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My biggest problem with Botw is the enemy variety, and that abomination we got over Ganondorf.

I agree mostly with your thoughts on MM exploration, but I actually think Goron form is one of the things most wrong with MM.
It's a phenomenal ability that is fun to use in every imaginable way. It just trivializes the world to a point that you just Goron through everything until you need to use your Hookshot, then go on Goroning until the next thing.
The masks were a great way to combine items that I wish we'd see again, but Goron too stronk. it breaks the game.

>There is all of this stuff to do, but your only reward for doing it is more stuff you have no use for. You can argue that it's in the experience of doing it, and that's great, but that can apply to any game that you like
This is a very poor argument and not true.

loved doing all this in camps and getting worse weapons then I came in with

FUCK DURABILITY, I WILL NEVER NOT BE MAD

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I love Midna!

The variety isnt in the numbers but in how you can approach things. But also the number of different locales and environments is way larger in BotW than any previous game.
And all the weapons are very different. You also forgot rods, two handed swords, axes, Spears, and the fact that each different kind has different stats and tradeoffs and allows for different movement and attack options. But that wouldn't work with your narrative.
Also cryonis is unironically based as fuck.
>you will never speed glide across the ocean in wind waker using cryonis
The dungeons could be more elaborate though

Really good dungeons except the Zant one.

I always felt the same way about FFXII soundtrack. It never got the praise it deserved.

It totally is a good argument, and it's one that many zelda games suffer from.
Many zelda games shower you with rupees that there is no good place to spend. Making those rupees bokoblin horns and meat doesn't make them much better.

Don't get me wrong, Botw's combat is fun, but I still hate knocking enemies down and how easily they're stunlocked. People always bring up that they're meant to be fought in groups, but there's lone enemies all over the place so that's not a good argument.

what zelda game besides wind waker and maybe skyward sword ever actually made use of rupees consistently?

Funny thing about Palace of Twilight, it's one of 2 dungeons in the game where you can genuinely miss the boss key, the other one being Temple of Time. The other dungeons basically just put it in your hand at some point in the dungeon.

I did forget rods, but by three swords, I meant one-handed weapons, two-handed weapons, and spears. Besides flammability/magnetic properties and whether or not it could cut, there's no difference between anything in those categories.

Twilight Princess isn't the best zelda game, but it's miles ahead of that abortion known as Majoras Mask. Imagine liking a zelda game with absolute shit dungeons. Also, I love Midna

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MM has 2 great dungeons (the latter 2) and 2 okay ones (the first 2).

>inb4 someone shits on Great Bay

Ys there is? There are minor to major differences in properties of pretty much every weapons .
It does suck we're missing out on staples like a clawshot or something, to say theres no weapon variety is downright wrong

Wind Waker is currently the best Zelda game to be released.

While I agree this game is fun, it doesn't compare to the sense of exploration and freedom mixed with progression and a banging soundtrack WW had.

>Pic related

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>Wind Waker is currently the best Zelda game to be released.

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Most of them don't. That's the point.
Making those rupees not!rupees doesn't make them better, it's just now there isn't even the slight hope that maybe this one's an empty bottle.

Besides rupees, though, take Majora's Mask. Most of the sidequests gave you masks, which would open up other sidequests to do, as well as often give you fun little ways to play around with this or that. That's the feeling of getting something you can actually use, even if only a little bit, instead of just getting one more of a thing I don't even want.

This one is interesting to unravel. When you have a few hours, go watch an Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask randomizer or two. Play one yourself if you have the means.
You very quickly realize how much the reward for doing something makes what you did to get it fun or not retroactively.
Bomb hovering over some shit to access a dungeon early to get a bundle of arrows or a purple rupee feels like shit. Even getting a heart piece for doing the same makes it better, let alone if you get the Hookshot out of it, or the Boss Key you've been needing.
Meaningful rewards make things more fun, and BotW doesn't have many. It ONLY has the filler rewards for the most part.

I mean it, watch a randomizer or two. The way they unravel the zelda formula is very interesting if you have any interest into the construction of a good zelda game.

>baby walker
>good
fuck you, the game is a insult to human intelligence. It has nothing to do with the style.

Fine man, that's like, your opinion, I absolutely loathe the game, the dungeons aren't very well put together and annoying to go through, unless you're an autist and have them memorized like the back of your hand, which is something I'll admit to with Ocarina of Time.

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This nigga probably likes No Story in the Wild

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I like it, but not as much as TP. WW had far too many poor design choices to be close to the best

Haven't played BotW but given what I have played the best Zelda is any one from ALttP to the Oracle games.
It sure as hell isn't TP, it has too many problems with pacing to ever be one of the best and the wolf sections are just plain ass, nothing worth doing in the hours you spend in that mode, it's basically "what if you were playing a Zelda game without any of the fun stuff that makes Zelda great", horrible.

I mean for the first hour yeah, it was a game for kids.

Then beyond that it's full of detail and a lot of soul. Fantastic swordplay, compelling characters.

The wind mechanic is bootyass but they fixed it in the remake.

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Pretty based ranking desu

>fantastic swordplay
this fucking meme needs to stop. link has three moves: regular slashing, waiting to hit A on darknuts, and the move taught from the old guy. that's it. it's not even that deep, why do people keep claiming it has the best swordplay?

>I mean for the first hour yeah, it was a game for kids.
Yeah right, till the last minute the game is interrupting you with "hints" and puzzle solutions before you even attempt to do anything..

Why is WW lower than MM/OoT? It's more or less the same system but with counters added

That's fair, everyone has their games that they're really on/off. For me, Wind Waker's the one I have difficulty stomaching. Wouldn't go so far as to say I loathe it but it's definitely a lesser entry in my eyes, largely in part because I think that one has no particularly good dungeons.

Because it takes the base swordplay of the games before it, turns WW's QTEs into actual moves, and adds a couple more bells and whistles on top while its successors have only gone backwards from there. At least SS and BotW had the decency to keep shield attacks.

i was saying that WW had an overrated combat system, not TP's.

The twilight segments were drawn out and got very annoying so no I it’s not

fuck no
not even top 5

Oh. Oh shit, fuck no. WW's easy mode swordplay. My bad, user.

MM/OoT have the advantage of better enemies to fight. TP only gets above them because the sheer number of techniques it adds is commendable, it feels like the only 3D Zelda to date that actually tried to build upon OoT/MM's foundations. WW did add counters but "press A when enemy raises their sword" kinda makes the whole thing easier, not deeper.

>goron mines
i too enjoy hearing CLANG CLANG CLANG CLANG CLANG for half an hour

>Illia
I can at least get why people like the other stuff but were you just reaching for something to say here? Ilia's about as bland a character as you can get, especially since she appears for all of 2 minutes throughout the first half of the game

Nope none of them were. Too kiddish like Mario.

This. Snowpeak Ruins is damn fine but Snowpeak Province has jack all in it and Temple of Time is not fun at all. Sniping shit in the hidden village followed by a task that makes the Triforce Hunt look entertaining. Then there's Temple of Twilight. Dear God.

Actually now that I think about it, I had this poster in my room as a kid.

>followed by a task that makes the Triforce Hunt look entertaining

The sky letter hunt is WAY less tedious than the triforce hunt. Shit takes like 20 minutes if you use warps, never mind not ever having to spend 400 rupees to translate charts. Fuck off with that nonsense.

Its ok, but I love some of the game breaking shortcuts in it after trying casual speedruns. Especially love playing a run just with early master sword

>wind waker's earth temple
>mirror room
Every time i get there i just want to hang myself with the controller. It's not even like you can fuck it up, it may as well be an 8 minute loading screen

I actually like playing TP with just the ordon sword for as much as it will allow me to. Never liked how Master Sword did double damage in a game that's already too easy even without it.

Twilight Princess sucked ass but it gave us Midna and Zant so it gets a pass

I get that, but I never find zelda games to be that difficult in the first place so not a big deal. Being able to switch between a human and wolf when you arent supposed to, making a fucked up wolf model mount epona in a cutscene is more amusing to me at this point. Also being able to tp at anytime super early is a noce bonus

Great Bay > Stone Tower. Don;t get me wrong ST has DOAT atmosphere but it feels more like set of final exam rooms compared to Great Bay's giant fuck you waterworks.

Also fuck that mirror room with the regenerating Boes.

Oh man, I also forgot about the lols of long jumping with the gale boomerang. Nvm it gets a 10/10 from me just for that. Especially since it lets you ignore most of those stupid fucking monkeys

>equating oot with SS
opinion discarded

True, botw feels like a good prototype for a great open world story-focused game to come next. But it still had hours worth of dicking around so I cant get mad at them for making it so different from their usual

If you wear the stone mask they ignore you

>not using the stone mask
>not just jumping the sun block with glitches

Did you not see the E3 reveal reaction video?
This was before the age of video games where people knew exactly how much their favorite developers could let them down.
Twilight Princess was riding on the goodwill of the N64 era and the legacy hitherto. Skyward Sword came in the aftermath of that dreaded launch.

Theoretically I could just wear the Stone Mask for half the game and have almost every enemy ignore me. But that's cheap as hell.

But thanks for the tip.

The stone mask doesn't work on enemies that could be considered anything close to challenging