Is he the only right winger in a video game that is actually done well and not in a condescending hateful manner?

Not the guy you were replying to, but Fascism is not right wing, it's third position.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Position
Why do so many people always think there are only left or right in the political spectrum?
National Socialism and Fascism both are something that combines aspects from both left and right wings, making it something entirely different.

The legion yeah, but only because they ran out of time
Caesar's dialogue is really well written and he has a lot of sense in what he says
If you say he's a power tripping nutjob I think you didnt go through his dialogue tree

cont.
Adding this
This is the most important detail to note "It emphasizes opposition to both communism and capitalism".
Fascism and National Socialism are strongly opposed to both capitalism and communism, which would be the right and left.

thats because serfs didnt have the same rights as nobility. monarchy was in a sense individualism of the nobility.

True they called it third position, but its still classically right wing, fascists are socially conservative but economically socialist/corporatist
Fascism was a reaction to communism and leftist revolutionaries in general so its automatically right simply by being a reactionary movement against the left
All left/right means is two sides of the current political climate
Third position meant against laissez faire capitalism and against communism, it was a third alternative

Should I got for a Cowboy themed run or Lasers?

Monarchs had to be human representation the realm. it was the opposite of individualism

Thats not what indiviualism means
Monarchism is completely totalitarian by definition
The traditional right were against individualism and capitalism
Democracy was a left wing system, giving equal votes to every individual regardless of class

But explain to me, how is it classically right wing, when it as you just admitted, includes being economically socialist.
It's not right wing, because it doesn't allow capitalism to run rampant, doesn't let businessmen make money at the expense of the peoples wellbeing. The government sets strict guidelines for corporations to follow, and might even have an involvement in running such big companies, so that they are ensured to prioritize the citizens first before their own profits.
This is very anti-capitalism, anti-right wing.

Also, while this does not apply to Italian Fascism - it does to National Socialism, they were extremely opposed to imperialism. NS was interventionist, yes, which meant they would be willing to go to war if they felt there was a foreign threat to them, but they had no intention of annexing those attacked nations, because the isolationist nature of NS would not suit incorporating other cultures and peoples into your nation.
The sole exception being the plan to take lebensraum from Russia, but it's a barren wasteland with no population for vast areas.

>collectivist = left wing
>individualist = right wing

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You guys are arguing past each other. just using left or right is useless if you're actually trying to describe politics, you need pic related.

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Go with laser gunslinger

Amerilards should be gassed

>Is he the only right winger in a video game that is actually done well and not in a condescending hateful manner?

No. For starters, Caesar isn't "right wing" in any way that means anything. Political left and political right are labels that only have meaning within a specific era AND specific region/culture, and Fallout games happen in such a radically different time and culture that any such labels are laughably misleading.

Political spectrums are a joke anyway. It would be more accurate to judge each individual issue on a spectrum because humans tend to have opinions that go all over the place and when they get interested in politics these labels force people to pick sides
>I support thing X and it makes me a leftist, and being leftist I must also support Y

No one thinks like that unless they're is some kind of outside pressure

Just to clarify, are you saying that nobody treats political ideologies like sports teams, where they care less about the issues, or are you saying that nobody considers things on a case by case basis?
Because you're wrong on both counts, but one is understandable.

Fascism was invented by Italian pro war socialists during ww1. Mussolini was a renowned socialist writer at the time but wanted war and glory for his country in a way the internationalist socialists denounced.

>pretentious
Way to show your low IQ.

can you imagine how expensive their services would be if they didn't have a liberal philosophy? they're basically the only hospital for several hundred miles in any direction.

>Is he the only right winger in a video game that is actually done well and not in a condescending hateful manner?
Not at all. There's Morrowind presenting the slavery debate as one of property rights for example.

Monarchism isn't totalitarian at all you fucking retard. Learn what words mean. Totalitarianism by definition coulf not have existed before the 20th century logistically as it lacked mass politics and mass media. There's more to totalitarianism than just authoritarianism, totalitarianism is when the state tries to control all aspects of people's lives, like in Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia. There were many brutal regimes like Czarist Russia but they were not totalitarian.

>Fascism was invented by Italians
Nice revisionism there Luigi.

>2019
>thinking IQ is a proper indicator of anything
Man you right wing snowflakes are stuck in the past

like OP said. Legion makes sense when explained to you by Caesar, but every time you run into a legion, the city is burning and people are dead everywhere.

ive heard rumors that the Legion got it the worst due to time constraints and a ton of the content had to be cut. may not be true but i heard people saying their was supposed to be a nice Romanesque city that never ended up in the game. something to show life among the legion when not in conflict.

The whole WORD is Italian in origin you fucking chimp.

his followers were violent rapist before they followed him, NCR is full of violent rapist and thugs. New vegas is populated by rapist thugs and cannibals.

I want the floodgates to Britain shut but I also want the railways to be re-nationalised immediately.

>word came from Latin so therefore modern Italy invented it
You are criminally stupid.

By the way, from Wikipedia:
>The Fascist Manifesto of 1919
>The Manifesto supported the creation of an eight-hour work day for all workers, a minimum wage, worker representation in industrial management, equal confidence in labour unions as in industrial executives and public servants, reorganization of the transportation sector, revision of the draft law on invalidity insurance, reduction of the retirement age from 65 to 55, a strong progressive tax on capital, confiscation of the property of religious institutions

That should give you an idea about the flimsy nature of "left vs right". Because that whole list is ultra-left-wing shit by today's American standards, yet all historians agree that Italian Fascists were hard right wing.

Mussolini was fucking socialist, socialism and communism are two sides of the same shekel

sounds like a bunch of anarchist wankery

All history says Fascism first popped up as an applied concept in 1914 Italy. If you want to claim something else, prove it.

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Fascists specifically opposed anarchism (along with communism and liberalism).

>pretentious
Hegel is literally babby's first modern philosopher, nothing he said is particularly hard to understand if you're not a brainlet.

Not the only but one of the best, there are several accidentally based authoritarian characters in games.

also from that same article "armament factories to be nationalised, short service militia, taxing capital, seizure of military assets and redirection of funds, universal suffrage, abolition of the senate". It's almost as if the country didn't give a shit about right/left wing differences and just wanted a strong country under the king that could defend itself and not sell itself like a whore. to foreigners. What a pack off assholes really.

But no, that's silly, imagine a country being unified and not having to make artificial divisions to break the citizenry and stop them thinking about rebellion against their autocratic masters.

He's not even the only Right Wing person in the game you brainlet. Mr House is pretty much an AnCap

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Isn't Senator Armstrong from Metal Gear basically an AnCap?

He's straight lolbertarian, not ancap. At least not in the strip, freeside is ancap.

Wouldn't him running the Free Economic Zone of New Vegas as an Autocrat, enforcing the Social Contract but not interfering class as an AnCap community?

Armstrong isn't an AnCap because he doesn't believe in non-aggression protocol, which is central for AnCaps. Armstrong is blackpill incarnate, he just believes that the strong should be allowed to crush the weak into dust and fuck any concept of society.

House isn't really running anything, he's just set out a default state of affairs with his protectatrons. So it's more arguments about if the presence of the protectatrons is an interference in the two sides. That said how much he has influenced anything behond nudging the families into the paths he wanted them on and using benny as a catspaw and what influence he's exerted in the past is vauge.

He decides treaties with the NCR, and hosts embassies for them so I'm guessing he decides what little foreign policy the FES has at the least

Fair points.

PROFLIGATES LIKE YOU GET THE CROSS. AVE TRUE TO CAESAR

They literally did

Do you not understand the meaning of the word "anarchy"?

why was Caesar so quick to tell you the true origins about the legion, and that all the roman elements are bullshit?

He wanted to bring you into his inner circle and so shared the truths with you. That and just rushed writing on the legions parts.

gets it right
>IQ
Way to show your Jewishness.

wish CL had been more fleshed out. love the idea of a man reading about ancient rome in post-apoc, and trying to bring it back. playing as CL in HoI4 OWB mod is fun as hell though. just finished off those degenerate NCR fags.

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t. 92 IQ-let

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>places with high IQs are nice to live
>places with low IQs are africa
yeah but it's not a perfect system so who cares right

>people unironically think a doomed ideology lead by a man with a brain tumor and carried out by incels in football gear will work

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I don’t think you know what pretentious means
It’s BECAUSE Hegel is babbys first modern philosopher that Caesar sounds like a pseud while quoting him

I always thought it'd be interesting to see where they wanted to take the Legion to make it less of an obvious bad guy.
The only positive thing they have going for them is that their trade routes in the other four corner states are safe, though Honest Hearts kind of blow a hole in that when the very trade caravan you arrive in gets fucked by their own cronies.

Because he knows you're a PC and therefore wants you in his circle as fast as possible. Caesar is the Fallout equivalent of Vivec.

>will work
No, I just think I'll be on top when the heap starts falling down and I've got the firepower to break enough heads to keep it in line.

>right winger
Lol, Fascism and Imperialism is third way.

Eddy ain't tryna bring Rome back though. The skin of Rome is very superficial and only applies to the army, there's no Plebian or Patrician classes or Senate House. It's an autocratic tribal confederation based around a personality cult.

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Both the Legion and NCR endings have the faction recognize you as an influential civilian and nothing more and the Courier fucks off to parts unknown. What you're looking for is House or Yes Man ending where you stick around and can have an unbeatable army of robots.

They do it subconsciously over the years, especially if there's a two-party system in place

The Legion was actually interesting, in that in the game, Caesar HIMSELF acknowledged that as the Legion was, it was deficient. He didn't want to conquer New Vegas merely for the strategic value. His idea was that the martial spirit of the Legion, having conquered New Vegas, would synthesize with the decadent (yet prosperous) urban culture there, and then emerge as some new civilizational force, distinct from what the NCR was trying to do, which he saw as merely aping the old, doomed world.

The point of the Legion in the game isn't that it's the proper ideology. The point of the Legion in the game is that even its leader acknowledges it will stagnate and decay without synthesis with something else. It exists to change.

I've never done a true legion run and now I'm itching to play again. Give me the essential mods lads

>comically evil
Can say that again. How much do clever dialogue from the boss matter if the followers are just generic evil raider type begging for a bullet?
Judging by the shit they pulled in Nipton I exterminated Legion members so ruthlessly I never even saw all that clever writing they had put in for Caesar. Not that I was really interested what he had to say at that point.

The problem is that the Legion won't change. Caesar's intentions may be noble but his followers are all empty-headed tribals that will move on to the next personality as soon as he dies, which is most likely Lanius, who is a braindead warmonger with none of the foresight or interest in a better future as Caesar.
Without a successor he's just fucking over the Mojave by essentially bringing it back down to the level of squabbling tribes that existed before House showed up.

>Judging by the shit they pulled in Nipton
You played the game?

Caesar isn't just some generic edgelord. He's cruel for a reason, he's emulating Rome's campaigns to keep the population terrified and pacified so they don't rise up.

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Every monarch in vidya who isn’t evil.
Like Zelda and Peach.
As well as those loyal to them, like Link and Mario.

Monarchy is the essence of individualism.
It’s literally rule decided by property rights.
The philosophy is, anyway.

it's amazing that you are calling everybody else stupid when you are wrong

The Legion slaughtering Niptons residents for being decadent is absurdly hypocritical for a bunch of rapist slavers.

>Get to Nipton
>Its a town of degenerates that agree to sell out some randos and subsequently gets purged for it
>Figure Legion is some kind of chaotic good wastelander purifiers.
>Go talk to Ceaser
>Anti-medicine ludites (But its okay when Ceaser does it)
>Slavery
>Rapists
>Annnd they slap on a hatred of women juuuuuust to make sure you know they are the bad guys

They were just another raider gang, why felate them so hard?

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Ancap isn’t a political ideology.
It’s a philosophy.

the word comes from latin roots and the sentiments from the turn of the century, not the first world war. drink a pint of dogshit.

They slaughtered Nipton's residents for playing two sides at once.

Doesn't he completely misinterpret the history of the end of the Roman Republic and idea of the dialectic to justify his ambitions?
I'm also skeptical of the utility of fascism in a postapocalyptic setting. Aren't the NCR the most palingenetic faction considering they're literally rebuilding civilization from the ashes?

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Because incels love the Roman aesthetic and Caesar is a charismatic personality

they don't rape their slaves, they breed them. slaves have no rights under legion law so they cannot be "raped". they breed their slaves to increase their population, in Nipton people were paying for sexual favors, that's completely different. if you get caught paying for whores in the legion, they would probably just kill you.

caesar isnt right wing

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Politics aren't a goddamn slider, it's a bunch of checkboxes.

I agree that the extreme hatred toward women is simply autistic, in anything else it is acceptable based on the situation they are in.

You're both fucking wrong. Mussolini's was the first fascist party but the ideas that would become fascism first appeared in France (Sorel and Maurras).

>Talk to NCR
>HEY WE'RE EMULATING THE CULTURE THAT BLEW UP THE ENTIRE EARTH

>Talk to Yes Man
>WHY YES, IDIOT WHO CAN'T EVEN DELIVER A CHIP WITHOUT GETTING A BULLET TO THE HEAD, YOU ARE FIT TO RULE VEGAS

>Talk to Ceaser
>DURR SYSTHESIS THIS META PHYSICS THAT. OKAY I FULL TRUST IN YOU TO GO INTO THE SECURITY ROOM WITH THE MAGICAL CHIP ESCORTED OF COURSE GUY I JUST MET TODAY

>Talk to House
>"I killed benny!"
>"I don't care about revenge I care about progress"

The choice was pretty clear to be honest.

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Most people arguing this insane bullshit are americans, who only have two political parties, therefore they think it's one or another.

He's not third-position either. Right and left-wing have no use in a society not seated on a liberal or post-liberal (fascist, communist) foundation

Taking someone as a slave and having sex with them against their will is rape.
Sawyer also confirmed the Legion does use rape to terrorize.

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>its Yea Forums tries to argue political categories thread
all of my cringe

>so comically evil
he is comically evil from standpoint of morals you have(morals of post christian/christian society), its pretty easy to assume that a bunch of reformed tribals led by autistic man with brain cancer he got from reading too much Hegel would have completely different set of morals, unless you are retarded, of course.
Dichotomy of left vs right within political science/sociology implies egalitarian ideas on a left against hierarchical order on a right. Therefore, modern discourse of calling fascism and nat.soc. right wing comes from the fact that within modern political climate real right wing ideas of, for example, monarchism are non-existence. So ultimately we get Freddy vs Jason shit with people putting communism or some other crap against fascism,
>anarchist
>rightwing
cringe

To be fair to Yes Man, he doesn't believe you when you say you're the courier Benny capped, and even if he did, it's literally in the name that he can't say no.

>the Italian term " fascismo "
>Italian term
>first realized in 1914 Italy

>anarchist
>any part of the political spectrum
They get shot by anyone with guns for a reason, because they're stupid, petty, mad bastards. They're a bunch of assholes who only live for human misery.

exactly, caesar is just caesar. calling caesar right wing would be like calling the actual caesar right wing. for what purpose?

Dude, Lanius threatens to take female couriers back to his tent and rape them to death.

again slaves have no rights, the concept of rape is a social construct, if it weren't for rape the human race would not exist right now because that's how people reproduced in the stone age.

from the Latin fasces, a bundle of sticks around a rod or axe representing strength in unity and used by the roman republic a symbol of authority of the senate and state.

>Literally going up to bat for slavery and rapists

If you want to RP as an edgelord raider, more power to you thats what games like this are for. But don't pretend to be the good guy while shoveling babies into a furnace.

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>if it weren't for rape the human race would not exist right now because that's how people reproduced in the stone age
Are you stupid? Sex feels good and humans have a natural desire to reproduce like any other animal.

>cant be raped because they have no rights
>its not rape if I dont call it rape

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It won't change by conventional means, which is exactly why Caesar was so obsessed with New Vegas. No one within the Legion - not even him - has the capacity to get the Legion to change its ways. Caesar trained tribals to be a brutal, totalitarian military force that was very, very effective at conquering and enforcing a brutal peace over a large swathe of territory, but as a result of this training and brutal brainwashing, it became rigid and incapable of change, and Caesar, importantly, knows this.

Vegas is a prime target for Caesar because it is *bigger* than the Legion is, in many ways. The politics, wealth and urbanism are not something the barracks-life Legion can cope with. Occupying Vegas, with all its temptations and wealth, will essentially morph the Legion by force, because they are ideologically incapable of dealing with the realities of a capital city right now. That's why Caesar was obsessed with Vegas as new Rome. He hoped it would marry the martial spirit of the Legion to philosophy, trade, wealth and politics of an urban elite, finally letting the Legion become an actual civilizational force.

>actually rape is good
is this really the hill you want to die on

>the good guy

there was no 'good guy' in nv

Gotta die somewhere, why not rape-is-just-banter-hill.

There is an economic left/right & social left/right. Anarchism is on the lowest axis of authoritarian v libertarian being the most libertarian with the smallest government. The right wing aspect comes from laissez faire right economics v the centrally controlled economy of hard left economics of socialism. House is pretty much an ANcap.

Just live with the BoS in their bunker with your techno tulpa waifu. You don't even need clothes.

>>actually rape is good
Not him, but imagine have the reading comprehension of a 13 year old.

Did you go to an American public school?

The problem is Vegas was already occupied by a bunch of tribals before House showed up, and they probably would have kept flinging shit at each other for eternity otherwise. When the Caesar dies and the Legion fragments I can't imagine it going a whole lot better.

Imagine having such a warped perspective of ancient civilization that you think we wouldn't have prospered without rape.

Right and left aren't useful categories outside of a political paradigm and ascribing right or left to someone that doesn't inhabit a similar paradigm to you is retarded. It's not really meaningful when a liberal calls a fascist right-wing or a communist left-wing because they are outside of the liberal range of thought. This is also why "fascist" and "communist" are terms of abuse in liberal discourse, and why Trots can call Stalinists rightist pigs and Hitler fans can call Strasserites bitchmade lefties.

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There were some, none of the major factions really had many. The doctor who patches you up was a good guy, Marcus was a good guy, The Kings seemed pretty good.

sit around for too long and you might get eaten by a sabre tooth cat. it was pump 'em and dump 'em all day my nigga.

Friendly reminder if you ask any SJW why gays should be allowed the only reason they can come up with is that historically there have always been slaves, and slaves CAN be raped by their slave owners. That means all slave owners were gay because they had male slaves.

Explain why he is wrong.

>so comically evil
Hate when people say this shit. Were Hitler or Stalin "comically evil", or do retards only use that term to refer to fictional characters?

Except women victim of rape were likely in a bad spot already, meaning a kid born into that situation likely isn't going to live to adulthood.
Rape was not a contributing factor to the prosperity of early humans.

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To be fair to dummy, our physical bodies pretty confirm we were built for rape

>Longer penises with a scoop on the end for pulling out a rivals sperm
>Can shoot off pretty quickly

>true origins
>all the roman elements are bullshit
You say this as if the Roman elements of the Legion were some obscure secret of state, and as if knowledgeable people didn't know how the Legion came to be.

What the fuck are you even on about

>likely in a bad spot already
>into that situation
see you have too modern of an outlook on this. they were living in fucking caves.

>Is he the only right winger in a video game that is actually done well and not in a condescending hateful manner?

considering all the fucked up shit his minions do in his name, nope.

Children born into a fairly stable tribal structure had a far better shot at living than children born to a traumatized and possibly injured mother.
This shit isn't rocket science.

Andrew Ryan
Of course, like Caesar, Ryan is a hypocrite but what have you.

Woe unto yee who read past this point as the thread has devolved into rape & not understanding the political compass.

Yeah, Sawyer pretty much states this
>Caesar takes whatever pieces of history he finds useful and disregards things he doesn't find useful. He has specific goals and uses history as a tool to meet those goals. When history doesn't help him, he doesn't use it. Even things like a reluctance to use advanced technology have more to do with his desire to keep the Legion ignorant/dependent on him than with anything "historical". Control is very important to him, even if it means that the people who serve him lack any of the medical knowledge necessary to help diagnose or treat his problems. It's very important for Caesar to maintain that the Legion is different. It is physically different, has different values, and different priorities. When Romans were wearing pants, they thought people wearing skirts were barbarians. When Romans wore togas, they thought people wearing pants were barbarians. People on the other side of that river wear pants. Our identity is good, your identity is bad.

And that's why women exist to be raped, because they like it

So you fuck some woman, she gets pregnant, can't move too fast, and so she and your baby becomes lunch. Bravo.
Say she pops her kid, you're off fucking some tree that looked super rapable, she leaves the kid to forage for food and the kid gets eaten by a predator. Bravo.
Or you and your woman fuck like monkeys, she pops a kid, you defend her and the kid while scavenging and when the kid is able to look after itself a bit you fuck your woman even harder so she gives you another kid. Rinse/repeat. And that's assuming htat humans aren't social animals, which we always have been.

>they were living in fucking caves
yeah and being born into a cave with a community is far better than being a rape-baby

I've had many arguments with homosexuals and homosexual defenders on this site and their entire reasoning for why gays should be allowed in society is because Romans had slaves and slaves could be raped under law because they're property, that means everybody with a male slave in Rome/Greece were gay because OF COURSE they raped their slaves.

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political compass is shit and gay, take the 8values or politiscales test instead

I think you've watched Quest For Fire one too many times.

>I've had many arguments with homosexuals and homosexual defenders on this site and their entire reasoning for why gays should be allowed in society is because Romans had slaves and slaves could be raped under law because they're property
and other shit that never happened

>Taking absolutely anything on this site seriously

Take the purplepill.
Monarchism is the one true way.

It will actually be a bit different, IF the Legion fractures. Keep in mind, the reason Caesar was able to be so successful - and the game makes this explicit - is because tribals are undisciplined and incompetent. The Legion is not. The Legion, as it is now, is a perfect tribal-conquering machine, because its ideology lets it take measures that other governments are unable or unwilling to take against tribals: Outright, persistent genocide, cultural brainwashing, etc. If he fails in NV, though, it becomes clear that this is ALL the Legion is good at. It can't establish a civilization on its own, it can merely establish brutal peace among fractious tribals. If the Legion fails in NV, most likely it won't even fracture. What will happen is merely that it will stagnate, slowly be chipped away at by the NCR and other civilization-achieving rivals, and be remembered by history as little more than particularly disciplined and brutal nomadic tribesmen who eventually faded into history.

user it sounds like someone tried to tell you about homosexual relationships in Rome and you just assumed this because that is some brainlet shit

What's the point of doing a legion run? Most of them are written as cartoonist villains and asshole

But at that point, Caesar is just trying to set up for what is already happening in Vegas, but with him as the figurehead instead of House or the Courier. It's selfish and causes pointless suffering no matter how you spin it.

You get to wear nice clothes and have the NCR as your enemy. It's cool to ambush NCR soldiers.

No, gays have no reasoning besides "Rome had slaves, slaves could be raped, so that means Rome was gay, that means gays are okay". You'd be surprised how quickly people open up if you listen to them, unless there's some sort of organized false flag homosexual raiding going on with the exact same philosophy on the morality of homosexuality.

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Making a legitimately evil character. Even though the Legion is twirling-mustache evil, the choices you get doing their quests are actually pretty fucked up.

>There was a better distribution of wealth under monarchy hundreds of years ago than there is in america 2019
>When a monarch fucks up enough, someone kills him. When a president fucks up enough, he leaves finishes his term inoffice and retires with a fat check from the government ever week for the rest of his life; no punishment
>When a peasant builds a cart, he owns that cart outright. He doesn't have to pay taxes on his cart. He doesn't have to get insurance incase he hits someones cart and if he decides to destroy his cart. He can do it without facing criminal charges.

You might be on to something here user

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>Roman Empire
-advanced technology with marvels of engineering
-strong military which used technology (building walls in the middle of battles) and strategy to outsmart numerically superior opponents
-was bringing civilization to barbarians
-had a strong military but an equally strong culture filled with art, writing and mythology which still influences the world to this day
>Caesar's "legion"
-rejects technology
-human wave military tactics
-are the barbarians
-devoid of culture beyond the military

While I appreciate what Caesar explains when you ask him, it does amuse me that the man who makes all the laws and runs everything can't figure out a way to change society into a non-murderous one.

He's right that if you foist change on people and they need to adapt, they will, but it's not as though the Romans became a new people simply because they defeated Carthage. For actual societal change you need to change the structure of life. Flight, for example, is one reason people in the US have less tight-knit families, because it's possible now to travel anywhere in the broad US territory within a few hours if you're in search of work. This leads people to spread out and live more independently. However, in countries where a plane ticket might take all year to afford for the common man, family units are still crucial because you won't travel far from your birth place.

Holding two distinct territories with different needs won't lead to a synthesis, but rather a governance struggle due to the different needs of the two territories. The NCR has vertibirds and technology the Legion appears to lack. They have medicine and more urban living. Laws made for the more rural Legion won't suit the NCR legion, and vice versa.

It was all just philosophy. If you read into any of the NV endings, most of them were overly idealistic. The most likely ending was the NCR one, wherein the NCR conquered the dam and then continued to deal with corruption and over-extension and basically EVERYONE admitted that was going to be the case.

This is literal /pol/ shitposting you dumbass.

A hole is a hole. Tell me why homosexuality is amoral beyond "Jesus said its bad so it must be"

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>traumatized
you're still not getting it. "rape" didn't exist it was unironically surprise sex and the women back then were ready for it.

Take it you didn't hear this on /lgbt/. You literally fell for propaganda.

No, it's not.

>Aren't the NCR the most palingenetic faction considering they're literally rebuilding civilization from the ashes?

NCR is doomed according to both Caesar and House because they're just trying to replicate exactly what came before, and what came before led to a nuclear war that ruined the world.

>"rape" didn't exist it was unironically surprise sex and the women back then were ready for it.

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>forcing a child into an unprepared woman who is likely unable to care for it
>beneficial in any way

The only correct answer in this thread.

they were not unable to care for it, caring for children is all they did back then and they learned how to do it much younger than they do now.

>propaganda
>10+ different faggots spanning multiple months all think the same thing

Achillies had a boyfriend, and when that boyfriend died in the Trojan War Achillies moped in his tent for days. And even he wasn't a quarter as gay as you bro,

>this entire thread

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So I'm going to just put your asinine statement that rape doesn't exist on the back burner for a moment and simply ask you this. Are you saying that we should have the same set of morals in the modern day that fucking cromagnums had?

Caring for children includes providing food for them and they didn't exactly have fucking Wal-marts back them you dunce.

There's that one Caesar mod that adds slaves to the camps, and the naked women crawling around on their hands and knees in the tents while crying and screaming gets my dick hard every time I walk through it. When I do a non-Caesar playthrough i make sure to put a bullet in the back of their head and get even harder.

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This only faggot that thinks this is you.

based dumb frog poster.

>Achillies
>Somebody who didn't exist had a boyfriend

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"Morality" doesn't exist, you dunce.

You realize that having a stable family unit was beneficial even in the Stone Age, right? Do you think the human race consisted of a bunch of single mothers raising all the children while men ran around in rape packs? There were tribes with stable families for the most part. Sure rape happened but it was certainly not the primary means of human reproduction

Based New Vegas Redesigned 3. Though the mod is fairly shit.

shut up fag

>Somebody who didn't exist
>history isn't real
He wasn't a god, but he's in various chronicles

>basic concepts such as taking a life or forcing traumatic experiences on another aren't bad because technically nothing is bad

The whole reason we started walking upright was to provide for and protect our families

Ah so you're a nihilist. That makes things much easier to understand.

Pretty sure gays only reasoning is "it makes my peeper feel good and I don't wanna get fucking lynched"

You're retarded

shit i guess all those non-anthro animals are just fucked huh

...yes?
What's your point

This is the other side of the argument. Once I blow your slave bullshit out of the water you go to Roman "stories". Quit trying to rewrite history you fucking faggot. There were giant dicksucking piles in the roman cities. No stories that never happened don't count

>There was better distribution of wealth
No
>When a peasant builds that cart, he owns that cart
No

Jesus Christ have you morons never heard of corvee? Forced equipment useage? Serfdom? You think peasants had private fucking property?

Take you meds man. You're having an episode.

Morality exists because at our most base form we still abhor things like rape and murder. It doesn't matter how you feel personally.

not the other user, fag

holy shit bro, it's like you're intentionally resisting the logic from entering your vacant cranium.

What? Bipedalism was an adaptation specifically for familial protection? News to me. I thought it was because walking on two legs is more energy efficient and we needed to free up our hands for doing human stuff.

>Guys some effeminate faggot wrote about events that happened 300 years before he was born!
>He said that the main character was gay and liked blowing dudes!
>Holy shit Rome was just a giant gaybar!

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The space between my ears is sovereign soil and no foreign influence may take root there.

>and what came before led to a nuclear war that ruined the world.
A democracy isn't what ruined the world, fucking resource shortage and conspicuous consumption did. What a crock of shit. It's the ultimate jaded nihilist idiot thing to say that hurf durf old world was dis old world bad cause nukes

Completely ignoring the context and circumstances that led to it, like MAD and zero sum politics

Depends who you asked, aristocrats probably claimed they owned everything but practically? They didn't until a time of war came along. You paid your little taxes and they left you alone until they needed more taxes. Such is the role of the rich, they are parasitic in nature.

What logic? That rape was the main way cavemen reproduce? Lol

SHUT UP STIRNER YOU'RE DEAD

>It doesn't matter how you feel personally, but it matters how I feel personally!
"Morality" is subjective and varies from culture to culture.

>man yells at himself for an hour
>bystanders bemused

>free up our hands for doing human stuff
And what do you think that human stuff was?

Are you disputing the boy fucking that happened in many ancient cultures? Provide your evidence please.

>Guys I read a wikipedia article that cited a gay man that cited a story that cited an event that happened 300 years before the author was born
>Rome was gay as fuck xD lol

It happened but not nearly to the degree idiots make it out to have been. It wasn't even considered good fashion to fuck your squire you were training him to be a man.

To be fair the boy fucking was more "let me put it between your thighs you sweet piece of boymeat" but since the sanitation standards of those days was "wipe with a piece of vinegar soaked wool" you can't really blame them for not wanting to go rawdogging up the dirt creek, at least when they wrote about it.

>One copy of Der Einzige und sein Eigentum, please.

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Certainly not just family raising. Bipedalism certainly helped us better care for our families, but it was not developed solely for that reason.

And the heir is raised to be the monarch.
Unlike our politicians who only need silver tongues to win.
And he owns the country, so he has an immensely low time preference.
I’m not even a memer. Monarchy is the ideal.

>asspained italian who wants to believe the roman catholic priests invented pederasty

We grew legs so we could reach the chicken nuggies on the high branches duh

>Monarchy is the ideal.
Said the zoomer who has never lived under anything resembling monarchy

The only gay sex allowed in rome was one of master/slave. That means you have to own somebody for you not to be locked up in prison. But that doesn't mean that it happened

Well the current system is fucking terrible. Can you blame for me looking into alternatives?

Greek culture was comparatively bisexual. Not totally gay because heterosexuality was and still is the norm. But Greek culture was definitely accepting of faggots. Still men could only marry women and they were expected to have plenty of children but they were also allowed to fuck other younger men. There was even the disgusting expectation that teachers would fuck their students.

The morality of greco-roman society is not similar to ours. It is an entirely different worldview and people compare the two often just to push an agenda.

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This is an interesting thread, feels like I'm on /tg/

>It doesn't matter how you feel personally.
It does. Ultimately most people agree certain things are bad because they personally feel certain things are bad.

But ultimately there's no actual right or wrong.

>Greek culture was definitely accepting of faggots
Once again that only applies to slaves.

There's no such thing as twelve or four either. Love doesn't exist, neither does hatred. It's all just chemicals in our brain, now will you be a fucking solipsistic coward or will you fight to create reality cunt?

>Monarchy is the ideal.

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Every single idea is based on an earlier idea that came before it. Yet the first one to use the word Fascism and define it as a concept was Italian.

>There's no such thing as twelve
I'll give you twelve dollars if you say you're wrong.

You all people arguing with Caesar's viewpoint on rome are forgetting something vital.

Edward Sallow doesn't know the full history no one does.
Chances are, if there were historical documentations on post great war germany, it would've been fourth reich and eazy P. would wonder if it's pronounce "Fuhrer" or "Fyhrer"

RIGHT OR WRONG DOESN'T EXIST EITHER AAAAAAA

>A democracy isn't what ruined the world, fucking resource shortage and conspicuous consumption did

Resource shortage has only gotten worse and conspicuous consumption is going to happen again in any society that enables it.

>There's no such thing as twelve or four either.
But we can unanimously agree on what that set of terms mean.

Likewise, I can live by a society's rules that "having sex with a 17-year old is wrong". Agreeing to comply doesn't mean I agree it is wrong, because laws aren't universal objective facts I can agree with.

It's like abortion. Many people say it's wrong. I honestly don't see the problem, or better said, I don't FEEL the problem with abortion, and I'm not about to trick my brain with "well you should FEEL bad because these people say X and Y".

>muh muh feels pls subscribe to muh worldview
The concept of "Twelve" and "Four" are objective principles. "Killing is bad" or "Rape is bad" is not. You FEEL that rape is bad, and so does society. And so society agrees to punish those that rape. You cannot objectively prove that rape and murder is bad though.

evolution is slowing down because of all the eggshells that human males have to tip toe on nowadays.

Not true. Phillip II of Macedon was a faggot who had an affair with his bodyguard, who later stabbed him. According to the historian Cleitarchus. Though like most ancient historians he was not a contemporary so the accuracy of this is unknown and it's likely embellished. Still the accusation itself is proof that it would not be out of place for such faggotry.
Phillips son Alexander the Great was also bisexual. A roman historian notes he would embrace his eunuch often. However, contrary to the modern belief he did not have some grand romance with his companion Hephaestion. And Alexander did have multiple wives.

Unless you mean "faggot" as in someone who is taking and not recieving. In which case, yes only slaves and other subdued men would take it.

>Legion was comically evil
Not really m8, talk to Raul or some of the caravans sometime about the Legion, they pretty much civilized Colorado by enslaving or murdering tribals and raiders en masse. They were always a mixed bag to anyone who understood the harsh lore of the Fallout universe, especially when you know what the old US government did and why a republic trying to mimic said government (NCR, House, etc) might be a bad idea. Caesar himself is a totalitarian in an era of chaos, so in a lot of ways he embodies a Hobbesian ideal of an absolute monarch. On the other hand his entire spiel about Hegelianism proves that, while he does not favor the bourgeois democracy of the NCR, he believes that the Legion and NCR will synthesize into a new South Western civilization.

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Thats not how evolution works

>The concept of "Twelve" and "Four" are objective principles.
Oh? Then define them. Whose to say twelve is twelve? I might decide twelve things are called thirteen

Stop bieng an obtuse weenie. Morality exists and it's the loosely agreed upon definition of behaviors that a society agrees upon, the same as fucking anything else. Morality is the same as a language.

>why a republic trying to mimic said government (NCR, House, etc)
House is not a republic dumb fuck. He's an enlightened immortal autocrat.

Emphasis on the
>Though like most ancient historians he was not a contemporary so the accuracy of this is unknown and it's likely embellished.
Which is especially true with claims of Alexander's homosexuality. It you want a pretty much confirmed example of a powerful gay ruler I would consider Hadrian

Well one hole is responsible for the creation of human life, the other is full of literal shit.

I'll let you take a shot at which one we were supposed to stick our dicks into.

>You cannot objectively prove that rape and murder is bad though.
I've got a solid iridium plate in my possession, carved by god, that says it's bad. You can't tell me I don't because that's religious persecution. You can't ask too look at it, because that is also persecution.

why does it matter to you though?

Fun fact gay fish have been found in nature and the behavior appears to improve heterosexual mating success

Not really, it was really on every tier of the society.
In Sparta, "fraternizing" of that was even considered beneficial as it bound troops tighter together. Soldiers were the free elite of Spartan society so as far from slaves as possible.

>You should have kids every time you fuck someone

A good way to ruin your life

>talking to a legionfag like he actually played the game
The only people who like skirt-orcs unironically are politically minded first, gamers second

>in any society that enables it
Literally every society, pre and postwar, suffer from that, the only way to not enable it is to become primitivist and nobody is espousing that, not even Caesar. The US was the only country on Earth that had actually found a way to escape that trap, they just couldn't get there before the Chinese glassed the planet.

Meant to say faction not republic, but the point still stands.
>Enlightened
He's an eccentric technocratic who abuses the power of his inventions to obtain power and one of the original architects of the apocalypse. He is not enlightened, just greedy and totally concerned with his own accomplishments. He cheats tens of thousands of people of their money and sponsors mafia organizations as a subservient oligarchy to rule his territory.

Joseph Smith it's the IRS we have some questions for you

social evolution.

Nope, just a typo you sperg faggot. Unfortunately I've probably played the game longer than you have, which I why I know so much more about the lore than you.

Funny how that works

>The US was the only country on Earth that had actually found a way to escape that trap,
Really? What was it?

Homosexual black swan couples have a notable higher success rate when raising chicks(which they get by seducing females and stealing her clutch)

Watching let's plays isn't playing the game

That isn't a thing

Admittedly embellished stories aren't good sources. Spartans were bonded to men like you would bond a Hawk to an owner, this accelerated their ascension to fighting men, this doesn't mean they were giving eachother blowies behind the tent

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>Projection
Awwww a cute!

Ever been in the armed forces? Blowjobs in the dark is how you pass the time, and in an army that was away from their wives for years if not decades at a time you'd be insane to believe that there weren't dudes who were not just being open with their faggorty.

>Homosexual black swan couples have a notable higher success rate when raising chicks
Fuck off Plato, we're not birds

>Blowjobs in the dark is how you pass the time, and in an army that was away from their wives for years if not decades at a time you'd be insane to believe that there weren't dudes who were not just being open with their faggorty.
>What is leave
>What is prostitution

Stop with your projection, faggot

Nice source, so now you're just making shit up off the top of your head?

Is this some sort of a personal thing to you? It's just history, mate.

Perfected fusion power, particularly the fusion cell. West Tek developed it as part of the power armor program and the government started to apply it all over. That's why robots/computers/lights/etc still work in some places over 200 years after the war ended. Shit was still bad and supply never caught up with demand but given enough time there was no reason that the US couldn't have walked out of it clean.

>Caesar doesn't espouse primitivism
He literally does though

History that's being rewritten as we speak.

>Ancient army
>Leave
Now prostitutes, yes. Camp followers were absolutely a thing. Bunch of cock seagulls. Some madmen actually brought their families

Navy reporting in, we had a guy who would sneak around at night and give folks BJs. Some people kicked him away. Some didn't but no one ever stopped it from happening.

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When did you realize that New Vegas actually has bad writing?

Infinite energy wouldn't have solved the fight over other resources or conspicuous consumption though

Wow that one guy is a good source for the entire Roman and Greek societies

>because the Great Khans are now part of the legion
user you might wanna finish that quest

>Navy
And no one was shocked

There are plenty of other sources.
In his Symposium Plato wrote about the Sacred Band of Thebes (150 pairs of lovers who fought together)

>And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their beloved, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour, and emulating one another in honour; and when fighting at each other's side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world. For what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms? He would be ready to die a thousand deaths rather than endure this. Or who would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger?

>the loosely agreed upon definition of behaviors that a society agrees upon
Society isn't constant and unchanging, what a society decides is moral will likely be different a hundred years down the line.
>Morality is the same as a language.
Fluid and constantly changing?

>That's why robots/computers/lights/etc still work in some places over 200 years after the war ended
If it was perfected then why was their so many fission cells powering cars and robots as well? It's not like the US government was clean either, they genocided the Canadians en masse to take control of the oil sands

So that's a no to any kind of service.
I've had a guys cock in my mouth and you're still a bigger faggot than I am.

Other than that dude who woke up half way though. hohoho.

The earliest records of those people ever existing was 25 year after Plato's death. And next was a guy who "publicly talked about it" another 30 years after that.

I'm not suprised a kind of nigger faggot like you that would sign up to go occupy a desert for a few years would suck dick on the side instead of visit prostitutes while stationed, fuck a POG girl, or fuck some chick on tinder while on leave like most sane non faggots. Do you even know what you're fighting for?

Probably not, but have fun with those dicks though

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>Plato
>Perfect source

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Did you kick him away?

>Do you even know what you're fighting for
Not that guy, but I went in for free college and of course a paycheck. You don't actually think every soldier is some Captain America type swinging around a flag and dedicating himself to fight for freedom and the american way-- right?

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fuck off diogenes aren't you late for masturbating in a barrel

BEHOLD

>occupy a desert
Nice projection faggot. I've never done camel duty, nor has my country been roped into American proxy wars.

Another thing is the only "real" source we have of those people ever existing was some guy 450 years after they were all supposedly wiped out.

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it's criminal the closest thing we have to a Diogenes in New Vegas is No-Bark

I AM ALWAYS PERFECTLY ON TIME FOR MY BARREL WORK. I COME WHEN I MEAN TO.

It's third position as opposed to communism and capitalism. It's regarding economics, not political spectrum.

People misunderstand what left/right mean, largely due to the cold war. Left = focus on equality. Right = focus on hierarchy.

you could be a king and you choose to be a sheep.

Legion and NCR are the brainlet options.
House/Yes Man is the Chad choice.

Fascism combines the revolutionary fervor of the left-wing with the rigid hierarchy of the right. To reduce everything to binary "left or right" is Amerimutt reasoning.

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>I went to welfare queen
Oh I know

>I've never done camel duty but I've sucked dicks on base
So you're just a projecting faggot then. Got it.

>only the jews should be allowed to the play the system for gains.

Oh fuck off with hero worship bullshit

What?

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Just read the thread. It's full of people coming up with some easily discredited bullshit on how everybody was gay all the time and it was great throughout history.

>everyone is american
how very tiresome

He probably salutes the television when they play the national anthem kek

Thanks for the bloated military budget my dude, you're just as bad as the Jews in that regard

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Would you like to highlight where in my post I said this? I'll wait. You're actually just a projecting faggot by the way.

But thats impossible without mods that let me have a cool laser revolver.

Any mods that give me a cool laser revolver?

>implying if we didn't protect the west and our allies the world wouldn't descend into chaos in a week

Actually it's full of people making fun of you for believing your own strawman.

>I feel like whoever wrote this guy's dialogue did his homework. He quotes Mussolini and Hegel

a perfect quote that captures the entire spirit of New Yea Forumsegas threads

This. American hegemony over the world demands an insane military budget and a finger in every single pie. The reason for all the Middle Eastern wars isn't something as retarded as "our Jew overlords demand it" but pure cold geopolitics and resource grabbing.

One gay dude is not driving the military budget up, it's the shitbag cronies that give defensive contracts to their friends that you keep reelecting.

The bigger question is. were there black people in legion?

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Niggers and Politicans are a far, FAR larger drain than I ever was. More importantly, I've done nothing wrong- simply took part in the system as the government has established it

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The only person who has attempted ad hominem so far has been you. Simply reading the thread would reveal to you that all the bullshit surrounding ancient Rome and Greece is sourceless

>>Roman Empire
>-advanced technology with marvels of engineering
Thisis a common and enduring myth. Actually Rome just took stuff from their former Etruscan overlords and never really improved on it whatsoever. They relied almost completely on slaves, so they had little reason to develop technologically.
The idea that Romans were great technological and architectural geniuses was a meme created during the Renaissance before people found out about the Etruscans.

I mean, Ulysses is ex-Legion. Joshua is pretty black now.

>*yawn*

The point being no one has said the stupid shit you claim to hear "all the time". You either made it up or unironically believe some /pol/ level shitpost.

delete this

Iirc that was only for the Legion itself (meaning that conquered territories were still free to do their own shit) and it was a temporary measure to make sure they don't become reliant on the limited and unreliable prewar tech that could run out before the Legion evolved into an actual nation-state. He was never against technology inherently.
Oil was the ultimate reason that the Earth ripped itself apart. No other resource was so rare and absolutely vital to the survival of a civilization. A country can survive without a lot but energy is not part of that list.
>If it was perfected then why was their so many fission cells powering cars and robots as well?
Because they're older and (presumably) less efficient, but far more common. Also regarding powering robots and cars and the like, the canon for how that works changes with every two games so you have to treat it differently for each game.
>to take control of the oil sands
Again, supply was behind demand. That sweet, sweet Canadian oil would have alleviated the issue.

The discussion that just transpired in this thread is the exact same as the ones I mentioned before. People cite sourceless claims and attempt to make and argument that's not there, and then get emotional when they're told their beliefs are baseless, like you are right now.

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To be fair, in this universe Elvis was only known as da man and not many people knew about it during NV

For all these claims you seem to have heard you can't source them either. These posts should be archived, so feel free to share them instead of pretending to be a victim.

>people cite sourceless claims
Burden of proof, brainlet

From italian fascio. You're such a dumbshit.

Their actual plan was that players would see the NCR and think "NCR good, Legion bad" because that's what the early game tells you. Then as you continue, you were meant to realise that NCR is corrupt, not helping people, full of useless politics and people who make themselves important for no reason, and so on. You were also meant to realise that the Legion fixes all that with its very radical attitudes, and then meet Caesar who explains his ideology clearly and rationally, and definitely you were meant to see them as two grey sides of a coin.

The Legion is pretty much an outright reaction to the flaws of the NCR from Caesar, if you really thought that they were deliberately written as the evil faction of encourage you to replay the game with Raul as a companion and actually speak to everyone in the Legion that you can

>Italy predates the roman republic
wew lad

>right wing

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The NV writers aren't that good, sorry champ.

Do you find it so hard to believe that many people, including yourselves, have accepted some odd form of history shaming for the benefit of a social group whose modus operandi is making shit up?

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Is it so hard for you to prove something you claim to see all the time?

Because you're a man of action/capability initially opposed to the Legion but a potential asset like Legate Lanius, but it's assumed because your character is generally Western (a lot of stuff points to the Courier having lived in the NCR or at the least the Mojave) so you're unlikely to buy into the Son of Mars bullshit.

Or you could just not answer my question. I guess that's fine too.

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I'm not going to believe something without proof, unlike you.

>believe this
>prove it
>no
wow what an argument

I'm not the one citing sources that lived 450 years after the event transpired

Better than literally citing nothing and just going "dude believe me :)"

Lmao just admit a majority of you are disgusted by homos. You'd feel a lot better admitting your disapproval of them stems from your upbringing and not from drowning yourself in red pills while performing mental gymnastics trying to convince yourself and others.

oh and alex jones was caught fapping to tranny porn.

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why do people even use their phones to look at porn
just asking for trouble

The burden of proof is on you to prove that "Romans and Greeks were gay" and you and the other people in this thread have yet to provide a source that isn't up front "embellished" or a "story" that somebody wrote with fictional characters.

can you give me a rundown on what it is he said?

Unless you have anything stating otherwise that isn't just pulled straight from your ass it beats your argument of "dude, people totally tried to tell me this obvious bullshit, can you believe that."

Just admit you don't like fags and you had to come up with some bullshit to justify it.

Stories aren't sources

>sources are provided
"Nah, they're all crap."
No real reason to even bother engaging since you're just going to say the same thing to anything provided.

Whilst I still think either NCR or Wild Card is best for Vegas, I think the Legion are poorly represented.

They're pretty explicitly transitional as a society. The hardcore totalitarian mono-culture roving army, flattening tribes was necessary to tame what by all accounts was an extremely wild and primative part of the United States (The fact that the states under the Legion's grasp were composed of violent tribes rather than intelligent societies like the NCR or New Canaan says a lot). They're not even really a society in and of itself, the implication I always got was that the Legion was just a roving army, and that as long as you didn't break any of the Legion's laws you were left alone. Add to the that the fact that the victory in the Mojave is meant to be the beginning of the Legion's transformation from just an army into an actual culture/society is really interesting and makes them more of a tempting gamble (it really pulls at the "But what if the ends actually do justify the means" thought process.)

Really, a lot of this could have been fixed with having one or two towns with fleshed out content on the otherside of the colorado river. Seeing a Legion settlement that wasn't one of their war camps, but was full of normal Wastelanders living under Legion dilligence.

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>we were supposed to stick our dicks into.
>we were supposed to
>supposed to

>evolutionary teleology
Just kill yourself

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Stories aren't sources

Checked.

But you're still a retard, "social evolution" isn't real

>scholars use these stories to piece together what roman society and culture was like because of their accuracy to the time period
>"not good enough for me lol"
>can't provide your own sources
>can't even prove these posts you claim to be dogged by

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Take your trolling to /his/ you colossal faggot.

/his/ would laugh his dumb ass out

What do you mean there's no sources arguing my claims? You're arguing that history is wrong, and the only thing in your arsenal are poems and 25th hand word of mouth from some dude from over 2000 years ago.

Show us the sources that say the contrary then. You clearly must have it so be so sure of yourself.

>NCR is full of violent rapist and thugs
source?

> the only reason people support homosexuality is because some Romans were gay
Are you clinically retarded?

History my good friend. There are no sources that say that Greeks or Romans were gay unless it was a master/slave relationship.

>What do you mean there's no sources arguing my claims?
Feel free to share with the class then instead of dancing around the subject a fucking frilly schoolgirl.

"My ass" isn't a source. Maybe read a book sometime.

Why is the burden of proof on me to prove something that has no sources?

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> There are no sources
Point to one, because I've got a dozen sources that say my cock is so big it can eclipse the sun and is the only reason Madagascar hasn't been invaded by the Saxons but I'm not going to share them with you.

>why do i have to prove something i made up why cant you just go along with ruse
Feel free to read up on Emperor Hadrian and Antinous or literally anything ever.

Why do I have to prove or disprove your argument? Are you that intellectually lazy?
>Read up on some dude who was turned into a God after death
I'm going to go ahead and say that nothing written about that person is going to be accurate at all

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>best portrayed right winger
>happens to be a genocidal leader of a group who pillages and rapes
huh, weird coincidence???

In case you couldn't tell by when House explicitly alludes to making the tram run on time in his ending, Mr. House is the actual fascist.

He's set-up a hybrid authoritarian-oligarchic city state where people have freedom but only within the bounds of House's will. Everything else is tightly controlled with totalitarian force using the robots as blunt instruments and the Families as a paramilitary backup.

Caesar is premodern in his politics. He's got elements of Classical Rome and Greece, but also Steppe empires and even Mesoamerican stuff. He looks like ideological fascism to people who haven't really studied fascism in detail.

>doing dangerous work that demands a ton of your time in return for agreed-upon benefits and pay in a fucking contract
>welfare queen

everything you are allowed to do in public is controlled by women.

everyone responding to you who misunderstand that just because you're right doesn't mean what you say doesn't have pretense is a literal brainlet

>an emperor whose reign is well documented and literally built things still around today
>lol i read the summary of the wikipedia page and i don't like what it says so not good enough for me :)
Elagabalus literally married SEVERAL MEN but I'm sure that's not good enough for you either because you can't pronounce his name so he must be fake. Stick to posting le funny reaction images and try not to drool on yourself.

I wouldn't call House a fascist. He's a technocratic authoritarian, but that's not "fascist." A key element of fascism is totalitarianism, and the propagandization of the masses, which House is mostly uninterested in. House is closer to a Monarchist than a Fascist.

>He doesn't know about the Imperial Cult
You gonna tell us that everything written about these men is fully inaccurate too, you absolute fucking idiot?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Deified_Roman_emperors

Attached: 1538535315816.jpg (477x472, 65K)

When did the argument become "prove widespread homosexuality and acceptance" to "prove anybody was maybe gay".

>A key element of fascism is totalitarianism, and the propagandization of the masses,

He monitors his populace and literally wipes out entire groups of people he's paranoid about with the expectance of total compliance (Not even talking about the BoS, he slaughters the Kings just because they didn't attack the NCR). The whole snowglobe obsession and train line at the end is meant to tip you off that maybe he isn't as relaxed as he wants you to think.

Probably around the same time you started to claim that homosexuality was exclusive to slaves and their masters, nigger.

No one is moving the goalposts but you. Roman emperors have some of the most well documented lives of the time and if you don't trust sources regarding them you are utterly hopeless.

No I said that only master/slave relationships weren't illegal. Not that they happened anyway.

>There are no sources that say that Greeks or Romans were gay unless it was a master/slave relationship.
I can't even see the goalposts anymore.

Which still puts you at the wrong, since several Emperors including the ones sourced in the above post had homosexual relationships.
Stop posting any time.

>Guys literally ALL of Rome and Greece were gay
>some of the .001% of the ruling class were sexually deviant
There's a big difference there

So are you just vehemently denying homosexuality in ancient Rome because you really like Rome and it would taint your view of them or what
I can't imagine being this intentionally dense for no reason

He wipes out competitors and eliminates competing sources of authority within his territory when they won't obey his orders - neither of this makes him a fascist. (I mean, let's be honest, MOST governments wouldn't tolerate some paramilitary group within their borders that explicitly refused to acknowledge the authority of the government, including democratic ones.) The snowglobe obsession is meant to show the myopic way in which he views his territory: Mistakenly thinking that he can cut it out from the rest of the world, and make it some beautiful idyll in some fragile bubble, while the world around it continues to decay. The tram line alludes to his political ideals: Competent governance over liberty.

None of this makes him a fascist. "Fascist" is not a word that means "Authoritarian government that does bad things". Fascism has key characteristics, like being intimately interested in political conformity and drilling the population in ideology, that House shows no interest in.

>here are sources showing that the common rank and file of the Roman military were dicking other dudes
>no i don't believe that source literal scholars use :)
>ok here are gay roman emperors whose lives are written as they were living them
>no that's not good enough :)
>do you actually have any sources proving your own argument?
>no :)
the goalposts are going to need a passport at this rate

Attached: 1524422389799.png (167x265, 33K)

The BoS weren't "in his territory". His territory was Vegas and the Dam, not the Mojave at large. But thats the issue, he oversteps what is supposed to be his reach.

A 14 year old syrian roman emperor who was assassinated because he sought to change Roman religion and sleep with nuns being described as a homosexual deviant to muddy his name isn't too farfetched now is it? Especially when sluts were publicly ridiculed back then.

Attached: 156425410891.jpg (996x682, 64K)

nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/42268

To be fair the BoS is a tech hoarding knight LARP. Their existence alone poses a threat to House and his robot army.

Did you not read my post or what
Left/right doesnt mean socialist v liberal or democrat vs republican
Left/right describes two sides of the current political discourse
Fascism is on the right
Its economically centrist, sociopolitically right wing

Jesus man did you even try to stop before running over english like that?

You know historians understand far better than you that Roman emperors were subject to slander by their successors all the fucking time and piece together the real history based on that? Or are you saying you're smarter than people who do this for a living and have made it their life's work?

The Kings were in his territory. The BoS, he justifies as a pre-emptive strike because he thinks they'll oppose his use of pre-war tech. And it's worth noting the BoS in NV are not the saintliest group, and House does make some valid points about them...and the NCR attacked them prior to the game, as well. You might read his reasons for it as bad, but attacking the BoS isn't fascist either.

He doesnt care about the republic he cares about the empire
Hence why he took the name of the man who destroyed the republic
He says in his dialogue that the NCR have all the issues of the ancient roman republic, and its only right that he destroy it, and in doing so the legion will be transformed into something more permanent
He's also not a fascist, he uses some fascist language but slavery is antithetical to fascism

All I'm saying is him and his.. cousin? Were both killed for being invalids. Not really that important if you catch my drift, hell they weren't even natives.

Hitler and Stalin didnt have packs of rape gangs burning down every village they came across just for the fuck of it
The legion were comically evil
Literally zero redeeming qualities outside of Caesar himself

Except Hadrian, who was also gay, is regarded as one of the best emperors Rome ever had, even in his time, and his lover was deified post-mortem.

>Hitler and Stalin didnt have packs of rape gangs burning down every village they came across just for the fuck of it
>He doesn't know

Attached: 1550328506236.png (379x497, 124K)

>Hitler and Stalin didnt have packs of rape gangs burning down every village they came across just for the fuck of it
Nigger WHAT?
That's literally the entire premise of Generalplan Ost. Something like 80% of Belarusian villages were burned down. What the fuck are you talking about.

DIRRRLLLLGAAAAANGGGGG

Attached: 1546637774465.jpg (812x806, 114K)

Yes user believe it or not, not every german was skinning jews alive while twirling his moustache

Stop being a daft cunt
If you cant see the difference between WW2 and a bunch of roman LARPers in football outfits holding execution lotteries and crucifying people then you're retarded

>Hadrian
So a possible pedophile King is something to celebrate and judge all his people throughout history on? It should be mentioned that nobody knows of their true relationship, most of it is conjecture.

I just don't understand how there can be literal libraries of evidence of Roman homosexuality and you just refuse to believe it for no discernible reason. You haven't been able to provide a shred of evidence to the contrary and keep trying to change the subject of the argument.
If you want evidence of homosexuality in everyday Roman citizens Martialis wrote about it in scores despite disapproving of it. It was pretty accepted pre-Christianity.

The fuck are you on about user, you brought up World War 2?
Also what do you mean, what's the difference between World War 2 and Caesar's conquests? One is on a larger scale?

Attached: 1529639834159.jpg (640x645, 61K)

>So a possible pedophile King is something to celebrate
Yes. How high are you?

It was him.

POLACKS IFFY, UH, DIRLY GOT THE STIFFY, UH
GOT THE BLICKY, UH, DRUM, IT HOLDS FIFTY, UH
DIRLY GANG!
I'LL SEE Y'ALL LATER, SUUWOO!

POP THESE POLES LIKE A DIRLY, NIGGA, YOU A SILLY NIGGA
IN THE HOOD WITH THEM BILLY NIGGAS, AND THEM DIRLY NIGGAS
POLACKS RUN UP AND THEY SHOOTIN' POLACK, WE AIN'T HOOPIN', POLACK
YO POLACK, YOU A LOSER, NIGGA, UP THAT LUGER, NIGGA

Attached: 1550105107921.png (334x384, 178K)

>libraries of evidence
Yet nobody has sourced anything that doesn't have wikipedia saying "this is conjecture and possibly embellished".

Pederasty was commonplace at the time. What the fuck are you on about?

Feel free to show us where Wiki-fucking-pedia says well documented events and culture is conjecture, I assume we'll get it at the same time you actually find some proof for your own claims.

I didnt bring up world war two, did you even read the reply chain??
The Germans were not "comically evil" nor were the Russians
What they caused was horrific destruction and death, but its not like that was their motive
Caesars Legion is barely better than a giant raider gang that abstains from drug abuse
Big reason for that is they were unfinished and the writers had to settle for the Legion being a bunch of generic evil dudes
The only glimpse of what nuance they might have had is through Caesars dialogue

>I didnt bring up world war two, did you even read the reply chain??
Shit, my bad.
>The Germans were not "comically evil" nor were the Russians
The Nazis literally had a plan to murder millions of Slavs and Jews in a mechanised genocide and committed horrible and brutal war crimes. They were as comically evil as you can get. The stalinist system murdered millions of innocent peasants, and killed hundreds of thousands in a political purge. Not to mention the tens of thousands of Poles they killed.
>but its not like that was their motive
It LITERALLY was their plan. What do you think the Holocaust was, or Generalplan Ost? Or the ethnic cleanings in Poland?

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I dont get it, a writer actually weaving real world philosophy into their characters to make them more realistic is a bad thing?

Has anyone actually ever made an argument as to why trannies shouldn't be killed or at least forcibly sterilized? They're like .1% of the population yet have completely taken over the "coding" community and vidya communities. They are the definition of "crybullies," they asct like perpetual victims yet the second they get in power they tyrannize everyone else nd shove pro-tranny laws down every country's throats. They are forcibly indoctrinating children, convincing moms that they need to cut the dicks off their sons.In Canada if you refuse to raise your children as trans the state can forcibly take your children away. Every single tranny is a potential totalitarian.

Seriously, name a SINGLE disadvantage to killing anyone who identifies as trans. Look at people like Coraline Ada, give me one reason why someone like Ada should be allowed to exist in society.

>They're like .1% of the population yet have completely taken over the "coding" community and vidya communities
>completely taken over
So AGDQ and the WoW general on /vg/?

Yes but they're doing the morally right thing, its not about cost, its about strength in empathy

Retirement at 55 omegalul

>The Nazis literally had a plan to murder millions of Slavs and Jews in a mechanised genocide
No they didnt. Lol.
They planned to take Lebensraum in Russia and enslave the slav race. There was no genocide planned anywhere.
Not every German was a member of the Nazi party, and not every Nazi was Himmler.
Hitler's motive wasnt "lets fuck the world up for the lols"
His entire motive was building a better standard of living for germans
He comitted acts of evil to achieve this
Thats very different from being evil for the sake of being evil
>The stalinist system murdered millions
Stalin was a piece of shit but not every Russian was.
And for all his blunders he did identify real issues with the Leninist system and try to resolve them. He wasnt simply acting out of the need to do evil shit for the sake of it.
This is what I'm trying to tell you. Real totalitarian regimes arent totally one dimensional like the Legion is.
>It LITERALLY was their plan. What do you think the Holocaust was, or Generalplan Ost?
You're historically illiterate? The Holocaust was not a planned event lmfao
The Holocaust was primarily caused by the lack of supplies for the German population, and instead of continuing to feed all these POWs they decided to kill them off
I'm not tryint to santitise Hitler here so I will concede that he did say in Table Talks that a second world war would result in the eradication of the Jews from Europe, but that meant physical removal not extermination
The Holocaust and the way it was carried out wasnt something planned from before the war

Anyway, can we get back to the point?
Why are you being intentionally difficult? I know you're not stupid so please stop acting like it. Caesar's Legion are unfinished. Calling them "comically evil" is completely appropriate. They have no nuance or redeeming qualities. Nazism had redeeming qualities. So did Communism. Thats my only point, stop getting bogged down in this historical debate shit.

All factions are shit independence is the only correct choice.

Yes Man would be the best route if you could decide how you rule the strip from now on since you basically become Caesar 2.0 with a bunch of tribes under your thumb, itd be cool if you could become a warlord in your own right and start your own faction

>There was no genocide planned anywhere
We have literally fuck loads of evidence that there was a planned genocide, you moron. Goebbels' dairies, the Einstatzgruppen reports, Posen speech, multiple testimonies. The camps weren't set up for shits and giggles, you brainlet.
>Not every German was a member of the Nazi party, and not every Nazi was Himmler
And? that doesn't mean there wasn't a planned genocide.
>Stalin was a piece of shit but not every Russian was
Why the fuck do you keep trotting out this retarded argument? Do you think the fact that not every Russian was Stalin justifies the fact that Stalinist Russia was evil?
>He wasnt simply acting out of the need to do evil shit for the sake of it.
He was a fucking paranoid lunatic that had hundreds of thousands of people, innocent people, purged because of his autism.
>You're historically illiterate? The Holocaust was not a planned event lmfao
Yes it was you fucking moron.
>but that meant physical removal not extermination
See pic related
>The Holocaust and the way it was carried out wasnt something planned from before the war
He wanted the Jews and Slavs removed, under the Hunger Plan and Generalplan Ost. There was discussions about moving the Jews to madagascar, but the Slavic people would have been destroyed under his plans for the Germanisation and colonisation of the East.
>They have no nuance or redeeming qualities
They're a transitionary stage between the wates and civilisation, without using old world ideals. They absolutely have redeeming qualities.

Attached: 1549790500461.jpg (5459x4091, 3.47M)

>When even Wikipedia has to say that revisionists are full of shit

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independent vegas is probably the worst choice lol
literally the "you fucked up but at least the game doesn't end prematurely" end

>They have no nuance or redeeming qualities
imagine if they had actually designed the legion completely and fleshed them out according to caesar's ideology
e.g. showing us more of their territory and how peaceful it was, showing us slaves that had experienced an increase in living to offset DUDE SLAVERY, shown us actual happy people, etc
how would you have tweaked the legion to make them a viable choice in the eyes of the player?

>multiple testimonies
After torture

Please provide some evidence that Eichmann's testimony was extracted via torture, user. If I didn't know any better I'd just assume you were parroting /pol/tard memes because you're a giant fucking retard who hasn't done more than 3 seconds of research into this subject.

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There is no evidence of planned genocide from before the war. There is nothing in Goebbels diary about it other than Goebbels opinion that Hitler should kill the jews but refuses.
They were not 'death camps' they were labour camps. "arbeit macht frei"
They only became death camps long after the war begun.
Operation Reinhard and all these other genocides were not the motive for WW2. Lebensraum was the motive for WW2. And that didnt involve genocide.

user
The point I am making is that CAESAR in the game is the glipse of what the Legion was SUPPOSED to be
Chris Avellone himself said in an interview that unfortunately they didnt have time to develop the Legion into something more believable to better fit in with Caesar's world view and had to settle for the band of roving murderers that they are in the final product
You're literally arguing the point with one of the writers here

>Eichmann's testimony
You mean the testimony given 15 years after the Nuremberg trials?

Yes, I assume you have some evidence that he was tortured at his trial and forced to confess to the horrible crimes he didn't commit?

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How does a testimony given 15 years after the Nuremberg Trials (in which most germans were tortured or had their family's lives threatened), and 16 years after the actual war hold any weight?

>Is he the only right winger in a video game that is actually done well and not in a condescending hateful manner?

right winger? i dont see them implementing free market economies

the right wing is about personal and economic freedom, if anything, hes probably a leftist

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>it's a shame he's so comically evil
Yeah like the nazis were comically evil for gassing 10million people all together and 6 million Jews systematically, huh?

>imagine if they had actually designed the legion completely and fleshed them out according to caesar's ideology
e.g. showing us more of their territory and how peaceful it was, showing us slaves that had experienced an increase in living to offset DUDE SLAVERY, shown us actual happy people, etc
Yes thank you thats the point i'm trying to make but this other retard keeps taking about the evil nartzees

>how would you have tweaked the legion to make them a viable choice in the eyes of the player?
Pretty much what you said
Show more of the Legion other than the camp, show their actual way of living
Give them some redeeming qualities like the Fascist regimes in real life
In return for their complete obedience and their labour they each have a decent standard of living far better than other wastelanders outside the Legion
Show how Legion life is better than Tribal life
Explain why they reject tech and drugs better, give the player some reason to see it from their point of view, or even give them a gameplay incentive
Since Caesar is so educated and real world fascism placed so much importance on education, why not have Legion schools and so on, showing us that they're bringing education to the wasteland
Then I could sympathise with them a lot more
They are still a warband of slavers but now I see how it could potentially be better than living in the wasteland by yourself

How many did Stalin kill? 20 million?

Because it's a testimony from a person involved in the war giving their version of events as happened. Why WOULDN'T they hold any weight?
>in which most germans were tortured or had their family's lives threatened
Great, I'm sure you have some evidence of this.

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meant for

>find some nigga who lost a war 15 years ago
>drag him out of his home and to a show trial in front of people who grew up hearing about people like him as the incarnation of evil
>"say you did the holocaust goy"
Also big think on you not even denying the Nuremberg defendants were tortured to extract their confessions

libertarianism is big gay

>t.

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>right winger? i dont see them implementing free market economies
>the right wing is about personal and economic freedom, if anything, hes probably a leftist

American education everybody

That didn't happen, though.

>b-but stalin
Yikes. The difference is stalin was a brutal dictator and Hitler and his Nazis wanted to completely eradicate another group of people systematically, and mostly through invasion.

stalin and hitler were noobs compared to mao

>the difference is hitler was a nazi
Okay? Do you know how stupid that sounds?

Fun fact: Liberalism and the free market are creations of the left wing
Of course I wouldn't expect a Trumptard /pol/cel to know this

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JUST LIKE MUH HANDJOB'S TAIL

>amalgamating everyone you don't like into one faction
Yikes! All you're missing is fundie.

Noobs because at least mao didn't destroy his nation forever, kek look at the germans & Russians now. And dumbass whites still like to talk about muh germany.

This but unironically

>"According to Judge Edward L. Van Roden’s book American Atrocities in Germany, out of 139 cases of treatment of alleged German “war criminals” that were investigated by the commission (who were put on trial by the American Military Tribunal in Dachau after World War II), 137 were tortured by having their testicles crushed."

You are 100% a lolbert from trump general
I'd bet 100 bucks

onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai onions desu senpai

Sorry, didn't see your post.
>There is nothing in Goebbels diary about it other than Goebbels opinion that Hitler should kill the jews but refuses
See page 85-86.
>They were not 'death camps' they were labour camps. "arbeit macht frei"
Are you serious? You do realise that Auschwitz is a complex of camps, and not just one camp, right? You DO realise that Auschwitz I is different from Auschwitz-Birkenau, which is where the majority of the killings took place right? Fucking hell user, you can't be this dumb.
>Lebensraum was the motive for WW2. And that didnt involve genocide.
Nigger expansion to the East WAS the motiviation, and it couldn't be done without massive amounts of killing to make way for German colonisation. Look up the MUTLIPLE ethnic cleansings that happened in Poland and Ukraine, like in Zamojszczyzna, that were done for the purpose of setting up German colonies in the region.

>CAESAR in the game is the glipse of what the Legion was SUPPOSED to be
I agree, Caesar's Legion isn't as developed as it could have been. That doesn't mean that the redeeming factors aren't still there. That doesn't mean that Caesar's Legion isn't as bad as say, actual Caesar in Gaul or the Nazis or the Soviets.

you dont have 100 to your name you faggot

also
>unironically being a liberal of any kind
Honestly we only need to kill like 15 million people at max
Cool you owe me $100

Attached: 1550728364993.png (1920x1080, 2.6M)

Nobody killed as many with the primary goal being to completely destroy another race, you can try to twist my words all you want though I suppose. If it makes your delusion seem a little more true why not.

>"Other methods used by the American interrogators included brutal beatings, placing a hood over the prisoner and punching them in the face with brass knuckles, breaking jaws, knocking out teeth, starvation rations, and solitary confinement. The prisoners were then presented with prepared statements to sign, “confessing” to various crimes."

mao destroyed any chances china had of seriously adopting and implementing communism, just like hitler and stalin did for their home countries and ideologies
if it wasnt for deng xiaoping china would be in a worse state than russia / germany

>Literally sourcing a book that doesn't exist from "Holocaust Deprogramming Course.com"
top kek, you retard.

holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/04/137-crushed-lies-or-why-denial-is.html
holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2018/04/a-not-so-short-debunking-of-holocaust.html

Attached: 1548386983713.gif (420x420, 334K)

How many people know that at Nuremberg the Germans were accused of, along with killing about six million Jews:

● vaporizing 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz with “atomic energy”;
● killing 840,000 Russian POW’s at Sachsenhausen concentration camp (in one month, with special pedal-driven brain-bashing machines, no less), then disposing of them in mobile [sic] crematoria;
● torturing and killing Jewish prisoners to the tempo of a specially composed “Tango of Death” in Lvov;
● steaming Jews to death like lobsters at Treblinka;
● electrocuting them en masse at Belzec;
● making not only lampshades and soap but also handbags, driving gloves, book bindings, saddles, riding breeches, gloves, house slippers, etc. from the remains of their victims;
●killing prisoners and concentration camp inmates for everything from having armpit hair to soiled underclothing?

nobody said it's okay but deflecting to stalin when people talk about Hitler is cringey and shows you are trying to defend the nazis so kys.

>he's STILL just quoting shit from a website called "holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com"
Jesus wept, user. See
holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2018/04/a-not-so-short-debunking-of-holocaust.html

It literally gave a book that does't exist, and the person it sources literally says he didn't write it.

Senator HUNT. Judge Van Roden, I have here before me a magazine known as the Progressive, I believe it is called.
Judge VAN RODEN. I have seen that.
Senator HUNT. Which carries, I presume, a written article by you, at least it accredits the article to you, and that makes some rather serious, very serious and direct charges, and I would like to ask you some questions with reference to the source of your information for making those charges.
Judge VAN RODEN. Before you do so, Senator, I want this to be made very definitely of record. I did not write that article. I had made a talk at a Rotary Club meeting in our county and a gentleman who was there took some notes on the talk, and I understand that is supposed to be a condensation of the things, some of the things that I said at that Rotary Club gathering. The gentleman who actually did write that article, actually is the author of it, telephoned to me that it was to have a byline. I did not know what a byline was, believe it or not, gentlemen. Then I was startled by receiving a copy of that as the author of that article. I am not the author of that article.
Senator HUNT. Let me ask you, Judge, after having read the article, would you like to say that the statements in there are statements made by you, or are they incorrect statements attributed to you?
Judge VAN RODEN. Well, some are correct and some are not correct. Senator HUNT. Judge, in your report of January 6, 1949, which you signed along with Colonel Simpson and Col. Charles W. Lawrence, this paragraph appears

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I don't think the Holocaust happened and if it did the Jews deserved it.
If the Holodomor happened, the kulaks did not deserve it.

Nobody wanted to implement true communism lmao, if you haven't learned that by now you need to think about it more. Communism has always and will always be a meme. Yes china is the biggest up and coming world power and lots of it has to do with Mao, and the blood of the people his nation has been built upon.

God, what a fucking joke.

He was a real person, why to you completely lose all composure when these things are brought up?

>Edward L. van Roden, a Pennsylvania judge, served in World War I and II, in the latter as Chief of the Military Justice Division for the European Theater where he saw service in Normandy, Belgium, the Rhineland, the Battle of the Bulge, and in the Ardennes. In 1946 he was reassigned to active duty and served on several important court martial trials in Germany. In 1948 Secretary of the Army Royall appointed him to an extraordinary commission charged with investigating the Dachau War Crimes program.

Here's a link to the document:
codoh.com/library/document/1129/?lang=en

Hes exactly right though dumbass. If you think that’s some type of stellar writing and not just a cut above the garbage in modern game writing you should read more.

Cool, nobody cares about your hot take delusions in the real world fag boy

So someone wrote an article condensing Van Roden's statements, and the fact that a site that believes the Holocaust didn't happen published said article is proof that it's wrong?
Epic debunking, user.

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A lot of people care about the Holocaust user. Are you ready for March's Holocaust Remembrance Day yet?

>See page 85-86.
I dont have a pdf handy can you post the quote?
>Are you serious? You do realise that Auschwitz is a complex of camps, and not just one camp, right? You DO realise that Auschwitz I is different from Auschwitz-Birkenau, which is where the majority of the killings took place right? Fucking hell user, you can't be this dumb.
I repeat, they were not death camps until well into the war. Feel free to try and prove me wrong.
>Nigger expansion to the East WAS the motiviation, and it couldn't be done without massive amounts of killing to make way for German colonisation.
Death in war is not Genocide, a systematic rounding up of all slavs and having them executed would be a Genocide. But that didnt happen.
Hitler himself wrote about enslaving the Slavic race to the Aryan. How do you suppose he was going to enslave dead slavs?
Yes ethnic killings happened. They werent planned from before the war. Lebensraum did not detail genocide. It may have been Hitlers intention, but he didnt state it anywhere. I'm starting to feel like a broken record.

>I agree, Caesar's Legion isn't as developed as it could have been.
THEN WHY ARE YOU ARGUING WITH ME
>That doesn't mean that the redeeming factors aren't still there.
There are none outside of Caesar himself. For the 4th ot 5th time now.
>That doesn't mean that Caesar's Legion isn't as bad as say, actual Caesar in Gaul or the Nazis or the Soviets.
Correct, they're way fucking worse! To the point that a regime like that would never exist! Thats my whole point, fuck.

>actual Caesar in Gaul
>evil
Fucking lol
user..
I dont even want to hear what crazy thins you believe about Caesar
Real life Caesar was one of the greatest people to ever live, and he is my personal hero
So lets hear it

Caesar was a good guy imo but he did absolutely fucking wreck the Gauls on a scale that if done today would be called a genocide.

Cringe.

...user. I said he was a real person, but that his book "American Atrocities in Germany" doesn't exist. He goes AGAINST what it says in the article

I literally quoted him saying this, did you not read my post?
>I did not write that article. I had made a talk at a Rotary Club meeting in our county and a gentleman who was there took some notes on the talk, and I understand that is supposed to be a condensation of the things, some of the things that I said at that Rotary Club gathering. The gentleman who actually did write that article, actually is the author of it, telephoned to me that it was to have a byline. I did not know what a byline was, believe it or not, gentlemen. Then I was startled by receiving a copy of that as the author of that article. I am not the author of that article.

>There was no general or systematic use of improper methods to secure prosecution evidence for the use at the trials.
>I do not know how many we heard or how many may or may not have been kicked or kneed in the testicles. We learned some had been but that figure is absolutely wrong

>So someone wrote an article condensing Van Roden's statements
No, there was literally an entire case about this, user. Read it for yourself.
holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/04/137-crushed-lies-or-why-denial-is.html

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Cringe

Outside of the Veneti slaughter when did Caesar genocide Gauls?
He was famously honourable towards his enemies and on multiple occasions spared many of the tribes in Gaul. He defeated the Helvetii and instead of destroying them all he let them go.

I already linked you the document so I'll just go ahead and ignore you now. It's not a book, it's a document he wrote after charged with investigating the Dachau War Crimes.

Oh hey, thanks for the link user!
>Senator MCCARTHY. Yes. Am I correct in saying that you did find evidence to indicate that a sizable number of those men sentenced to die were crippled to at least some extent because of having been kicked in the testicles?
>Judge VAN RODEN. We found that to be so. But I have seen some of the articles in the papers and some were exaggerated. I read one the other day saying that all but two of the men had been injured for life. We did not find that.
>Senator MCCARTHY. But you found -
>Judge VAN RODEN. That some of them had been injured in their testicles. We could not find out how many.

>links to a google blog written by a russian and think it holds weight

Attacking the source is big gay. There are good, informative blogs.
People who believe in the Holocaust are clownish enough regardless of their publishing platform.

Congratulations on your elaborate bait you exceptionally autistic faggot. No fuck off.

Remember the six million!

David Irving, famous "holocaust denier" so called, recently confirmed that many of the Holocaust numbers are actually accurate.

The holocaust numbers are so accurate you can actively see them changing the plaques throughout history.

furtherglory.wordpress.com/2010/12/20/why-do-the-numbers-for-auschwitz-birkenau-keep-changing/

sci-hub.se/https://dspace.gipe.ac.in/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10973/34067/GIPE-024088.pdf?sequence=3
This one is at the bottom of page 48.
>I repeat, they were not death camps until well into the war
Around 1941, yes. And for the Jews. This doesn't take away the fact that A. They still INTENTIONALLY killed millions of Jews, and B. They still planned to reduce the slavic population for Germanisation efforts.
>a systematic rounding up of all slavs and having them executed would be a Genocide. But that didnt happen
What is the Hunger Plan?
>but he didnt state it anywhere
Nigger Goebbels's literally talks about Hitler talking to him about it.

>THEN WHY ARE YOU ARGUING WITH ME
Mainly the fact that you tried to imply that Caesar has absolutely no justification and is even worse than Hitler and Stalin
>There are none outside of Caesar himself. For the 4th ot 5th time now
Caesar and his ideology IS the legion.
>Correct, they're way fucking worse! To the point that a regime like that would never exist! Thats my whole point, fuck
How the fuck is "burning down a village to instill fear" like EVERY fucking historical conquerer did in any way comparable with the mechanised genocide of the Eastern Slavs and the Jews a la Hitler?
>So lets hear it
The burning down of villages? The selling of people into slavery? The eradication of Gallic tribes? Golly, I guess Caesar was just a comically evil awful person with no redeeming qualities, eh?

>He's got elements of Classical Rome and Greece
Bullshit he does, the dude is straight up African warlord tier. Greece and Rome had Kings, Senates, and the Citizenry all vying for and swapping power. There is nothing Greco Roman about Edward Swallow in the slightest beyond some incredibly shallow naming conventions.

He literally said he didn't write it.

>The fact that a few dozen were injured validates my claims that the person I'm SOURCING disagrees with.

You mean the google blog you linked said he didn't write it. How convenient for you.

The "google blog" is just quoting the Malmedy Massacre Investigation.
loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/Malmedy_investigation.html

>uhm actually no one was tortured and the claim is made up here's the proof!
yeah but that doesn't count!

remember the loser nazis and their megalomaniac coward of a leader!!

How can he say he never wrote the document 3 years before he wrote the document about a different investigation?

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This is some serious babbys first "advanced" politics

People will forever, no one ever remembers people like you tho

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For your source that people were injured you source something that THE PERSON you are sourcing disavows and says he had nothing to do with. He literally says
>There was no general or systematic use of improper methods to secure prosecution evidence for the use at the trials.

When was the article supposedly made? Because the MMI was in 1949
loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/Malmedy_hearings-1.pdf

go peddle your nonsense somewhere else, i'm too smart for this shit

second part meant for

>For your source that people were injured you source something that THE PERSON you are sourcing disavows
Yeah they disavowed it 3 years before it existed. Fucking time travelers man, but at least your argument still holds up.

Cant download that
>around 1941
Thank you.
>they still intentionally killed millions of jews
I know, I never said they didnt. I just said it was a product of the war more than a planned event.
>they still planned to tecuse thr slavic population
Where was this planned? Its not written anywhere as far as I know
Not being condescending I honestly want to know if that was written
>hunger plan
That was in 1941
Also wasnt exactly a genocide, was just the Germans taking their food since their supplies were dwindling
>Goebbels talks about hitler talking to him about it
Goebbels says a lot of things but I dont remember that part of his diaries
I'll take your word for it though since I cant download these pdfs
This is all beside the point
I'm not trying to sanitize the Nazis here
I'm fully aware of the atrocities they did
The key difference between Germany and the Legion is that Germany had multiple redeeming qualities, and if you were of the German race it would have been almost like a utopia in the 30s
Theres a very obvious difference between the Nazis and the Legion

>mainly the fact that you tried to imply Caesar has absolutley no justification
THATS NOT WHAT I IMPLIED
RREEEEEEE
Did you even fucking read the reply chain??
My entire point is that Caesar IS justified, but that the Legion doesnt reflect his views
Chris Avellone said this as well
The guy who wrote Caesar didnt design the Legion as a faction, thus the large disconnect
Thats my ENTIRE point
>and is even worse than Hitler and Stalin
I didnt bring up Hitler and Stalin, the user I was arguing with did
I'm talking about the Nazis and the Soviets as factions, and yes the Legion is far more "comically evil" than either of those
(cont)

No you're not. You're incredibly ordinary which is why you think what you think.

>Yeah they disavowed it 3 years before it existed
The fuck are you on about, retard? The MMI Senate subcommittee was in 1949, the article you linked was in 1949. Where are you getting this "3 years" shit from?

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Cool, so how about those ballbusted Nazis?

>look at me the sky is falling and Hitler was right! I'm so different thinking and superior!

I guess being a schizo is the best one could be then? You think being a contrarian is a substitute for intelligence, and it's not.

What happened to being too good to engage with me?
dw user, I'm much smarter than you and it's not because I'm a "contrarian" and you're a sad, uninspired midwit.

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Oh I thought you were quoting the actual trial. You are aware the "blog" that you linked proves that German officers were tortured before their testimonies, right?

That doesn't count

>Cant download that
Go to Sci-hub or google scholar and search the Goebbels' diaries.
>I just said it was a product of the war more than a planned event.
No, it was a planned event BECAUSE they weren't able to deport them. All because they fell onto the plan of "Killing them all" instead of the deportation doesn't mean it wasn't a planned event.

>That was in 1941
So what? The initial goal in invading the East was to make way for German colonisation under Generalplan Ost. They invaded the East in 1941. I don't see your point.
>Also wasnt exactly a genocide,
It was a PLANNED genocide, in which millions would have been killed. It was never carried out in its full capacity.
>Goebbels says a lot of things but I dont remember that part of his diaries
See first part.
>The key difference between Germany and the Legion is that Germany had multiple redeeming qualities
Caesar's Legion is no better or worse than say, the Mongol Empire. Hell, at least Caesar's Legion is conquering territory filled with tribes and pacifying the area, previously filled with degenerate raider types, and making a functioning civilisation that is able to go toe-to-toe with the largest nation state in the post-war world. Caesar's entire plan is to bring civilisation back via a merger between the NCR and the Legion. There are MULTIPLE redeeming qualities, you don't even have to look that hard. Everyone and their mother gushes about how Caesar's legion keeps the roads safe from raiders.
>My entire point is that Caesar IS justified, but that the Legion doesnt reflect his views
How? Because they kill people and burn down villages?

(cont)
>Caesar and his ideology IS the legion
No it is not
You're arguing with one of the writers of the fuckin game here
Caesar and his dialogue were written by someone else, the Legion was unfinished and is very different from the kind of things Caesar talks about
We dont get to see any of Caesars philosophy in practice at all
>hitler genocide jews hurr durr
Read my first post
Hitler did it for a reason, the Legion rapes and pillages people for no reason
They attack caravans and random wasters simply because the game needed bad guys
You seem to think every German and Russian is pure evil so I dunno man, cant help you there

>the burning down of villages
again, outside of the Veneti which was revenge for the legions when did this happen?
>selling people into slavery
You do realise the ancient world literally ran on slavery right? You couldn't not sell captives into slavery, it would be like not using oil
Ridiculous to use critical theory thinking when addressing an ancient civilization that literally thrived off slavery
>the eradication of gallic tribes
for the third time who other than the Veneti did he exterminate?
You know that Caesar is famous for being one of the most honourable Roman generals right? His clemency towards his enemies is literally what got him killed in the end
>golly i guess Caesar was just a comically evil awful person with no redeeming qualities
No I think you're just uneducated on Roman history
Caesar wasnt evil he was a force for good, he was a great man and fought against the patricians and their oppression for the benefit of his people
All he wanted was a land reform to get people back into the work force, and they stood in his way because that land was owned by rich people
Anything Caesar did after that was justified, they had it coming to them

The man who claims that there weren't tortures carried out wasn't present for the interrogations, you realize that, right?

Reminder that Generalplan Ost has never been found

Yes, I'm far too good for any of your pathetic words or memes to have any effect. Everything you do and say falls flat, you're a complete delusional retard. Keep telling yourself you're special though.

I never understood how Raul knew so much and was so in favor of the Legion, considering that they kill ghouls on sight.

I'm not trying to convince you. People like you are beyond help. I'm just ridiculing you.
You're a very sad figure.

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Nah cole phelps is better. Unlike Caesar, he isn't a villain.

I mean just reading through the investigation they admit you kneeing a 16 year old German boy in he guts until he confessed, and he got a life sentence.

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Shut up

>Hell, at least Caesar's Legion is conquering territory filled with tribes and pacifying the area, previously filled with degenerate raider types, and making a functioning civilisation that is able to go toe-to-toe with the largest nation state in the post-war world

The first one is not a redeeming quality, particularly when he's bringing these tribes together in brutal and sometimes genocidal campaigns in order to attack and subjugate neighboring Regions. The second one is a projection that we have no basis to believe will ever happen. The Legion does not work, and is explicitly said by multiple individuals who worked closely with it that it will fail spectacularly once Caesar is removed from the equation.

>Everyone and their mother gushes about how Caesar's legion keeps the roads safe from raiders.
Literally only one person mentions that in game. Said person also mentions how he's stuck in his camp precisely because a member of the Legion (Lanius) killed his carriage brahmin solely because it annoyed him with it's presence, and said trader "Wasn't stupid enough" to go and ask for compensation. The Legion is "Safe" because it took all the Raiders and savages and put them in the army far away from everyone else.

He says
>That some of them had been injured in their testicles. We could not find out how many.
Which directly contradicts YOUR source.
He also states that there was NO systematic use of improper methods to secure testimonies, which is what you're trying to claim.

Generalplan Ost hasn't been found, but we have multiple documents from which we can reconstruct what was in it, like "Opinion and ideas Regarding the General Plan for the East of the Reichsführer SS." The Czech government have what is basically plans for Generalplan Ost but in Czechia.
fronta.cz/dokument/sudetonemecka-strana-grundplanung-1938

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>Nobody wanted to implement true communism lmao
this is such a basic bitch opinion that I don't even know if I should seriously respond to it
mao and his immediate circle were obsessed with implementing true communism
try doing some actual research into historical events before you do the "im so cynical look at me" bit
mao was convinced that nefarious forces were preventing him from implementing real communism and committed atrocities accordingly
he was one of the clearest examples of an ideologue as there can be

>systematic
Oh okay so Nazis were tortured to obtain confessions it just didn't happen to all of them
Great debunking

The Germans didnt plan any genocides prior to the war. You cant convince me otherwise unless you show me documented proof that they planned on starting a war to wipe out entire races.
I know for a fact that isnt the case and the worst thing Hitler ever said was that if Britain started another world war it would result in the 'eradication of the jews from europe'.
Now I'm done talking about the Nazis. I frankly dont give a shit and its irrelevant to the topic.

Caesar is a sensible character. I am the OP of this thread. I quite clearly like him.
Caesars Legion however doesnt reflect that. They are a band of violent slavers living like shit. There's no rhyme or reason to their random attacks throughout the Mojave. If the Legion wins we dont see any of that "synthesis" Caesar spoke about. We dont get to see why they are mysoginists, anti-tech, or anti-chem. We dont get to see their actual society outsde of the war camp. We dont get to learn anything about their slavery or why Caesar wants slaves (we can speculate but its not told in game).
The Legion is just stupdly evil for the sake of being evil in the plot. They hold lotteres to exterminate villages. Why? For fun? Thats so fuckin retarded.

>look at me I'm a nazi Hitler was right lmao empire of dust meme

Keep telling yourself you aren't the NPC you try to accuse others of being homo, you've been brainwashed by this site. Try to go outside and talk to people sometime.

read
They beat a German boy 6 times and returned with a rewritten harsher confession every time to get him to confess to it, eventually leading to life imprisonment. Have you even read the investigation that you cite as a source?

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