Silent Hill 4

I don't think so, I played 1 to 4 and I think that gameplay wise 3 was better but story wise it was 2, not the guy you replying though

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>post objectively the worst SH game out of all proper fourth games
>make constroversial statement to accompany it
sounds like nu-Yea Forums alright

Yes.

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Nah, nu/v/ is too busy playing smash or pretending to be a tranny to make a video game post

>probably still the best example of storytelling in games
It's shit like this that outs you as a pleb. James is a terrible character that is so willfully stupid it dives into satire even though he's shipped with PTSD/delusions. The story is also very, very plain and very little happens.. And the VA is so fucking terrible that the characters don't even have conversations... they're just volleying lines back and forth with awkward pauses. Maybe that's something that works in the Japanese dub, but the not the English one. I mean just watch this shit:
youtube.com/watch?v=d3_xBJu7d8E&t=230s
On top of this, it's a horror game that isn't scary.

OK? That's a perfectly valid opinion, I'd agree entirely that the first game has much better level design, puzzles, enemy variety, and is probably "scarier" but that doesn't make SH2 shit. There is no debate to be had that SH2's story is leagues above SH1, and the way the game integrates it's story into every other facet of the game is very impressive. I would also say that despite the enemy variety being quite poor in 2, the enemies are still better. The enemies in SH1 are very bland and forgettable except for the gray children. They all look very samey and uninteresting and clearly don't have anywhere near as much thought put into them as in SH2.

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Konami wanted one Silent Hill game produced per year. Team Silent wanted 3 years of dev time, so Konami gave them the boot and hired Western developers who could churn out one game per year.

If it weren't for Homecoming, The Room would be my favourite Silent Hill game.

The recycling thing isn't as bad as most make it out to be. The only part where it's really bad is the subway and forest, which are simply reused. The hospital, apartment building, and prison are all very different from their first run through just like the otherworld levels in the other games if not more different.

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Based

>RE4
>MGS2
>underrated gem
What fucking world are you from?

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Evil Within fucking sucked though.

I fully understand the hate Homecoming receives. I just don't get it personally.

The otherworld of SH4 is just too uninspired. Masahiro Ito didn't work on it and it's very visible. If Masahiro Ito had worked on it the otherworld forest would be a place filled with rocks that look like tumours, fleshy trees that bleed, barbed and rusty metallic structures everywhere, the way Silent Hill should be.

Congratulations, you just revealed your pleb status in front of all your internet friends.

>The story is also very, very plain and very little happens
This.
I mean even as a 12 year old my reaction to monsters being symbolic was: 'Cool..........Wait that's it?'

RE4 sold less than RE2,RE3,RE5 and RE6

This. It's actually a great game, but people were too butthurt about it not being Banjo-Threeie to see how much fun it was.

More like pleb sieve.

I thought that was neat too. But the actual story and plotting is terrible. Telling the twist at the end through a flashback? Jesus Christ. Fucking terrible.

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And yet it was always the most fucking popular on this board of plebs and everywhere else, and is still treated like its perfect.
Any mainline RE is not "underrated".

Do you even know what a "pleb filter" means?

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>combat is ass
>story id ass
>level design is complete shit
>horror aesthetic boils down to "lets shove rust and barbed wire everywhere, works for SH"
It was shit and you have awful taste for acting like its a gem. Fatal Frame is the true underrated horror series. Evil Within was just trash through and through.

>make on ok short game
>double the length of it by making the player have to do it over again as an escort mission
Nah, I'm good. It was way worse than 1,2, and 3. Stop calling shitty games pleb filters.

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RE0 imo. Both that and SH4 get way too much hate and considering the shit that came later for both franchises, they've aged well.

if you ask me? absolutely not. incredible storytelling and atmosphere, and easily my second game in the series. one of my favorite horror games, and games, of all time.
>Silent Hill 2 is a fantastic game and probably still the best example of storytelling in games,
while the former is true, let's not oversell it. that's probably one reason people have turned against it so much. it is a great example of storytelling in games, but to cite it as the best when we have the likes of Majora's Mask, SH4, Killer7, Mother 3, LISA, etc. etc. is simply mendacious

can you understand symbolism in storytelling, or is that lost on you? not everything that makes for a great story lies in characterization and surface level exposition.

>If Masahiro Ito had worked on it the otherworld forest would be a place filled with rocks that look like tumours, fleshy trees that bleed, barbed and rusty metallic structures everywhere, the way Silent Hill should be.
if he worked on it he probably would not have made it like that because that's only how "silent hill should be" in regards to Alessa. It was her projecting that in SH1 and 3. SH2 otherworld is never rusty/bloody/fleshy, it's different because it's James, and it's different when it's due to Angela and Eddie.
>hurr SH2's storytelling is only about the monsters being symbolic
imagine being such an absolute surface level brainlet. Every aspect of the game ties into the story/James, not just the monsters.
>telling the twist at the end through a flashback
There is not a single flashback in Silent Hill 2, what the fuck are you on about? The "twist" is teased constantly but first blatantly shown in the scene where James watches the videotape, then the Pyramid Head confrontation, then the final boss, then the scene where he talks to Mary but it isn't a fucking flashback.

>Fatal Frame is the true underrated horror series
jesus christ, user was right, you really did out yourself as a pleb. if anything Fatal Frame is one of the most overrated games of the genre. granted, i still need to play 2 and 3, but while i liked the first game well enough the story is paper thin, and once you've played the first few minutes you know exactly what to expect from the rest of the game. there's no variation, not even in sound design, so it very quickly becomes a one trick pony. a good and fun one trick pony, but one nonetheless.

>I'm gonna shit on the series while not having played the good entries
Okay

What makes SH2's storytelling so good is how effectively it organically weaves every other aspect of the game into it. The story of SH4 is much better and more complex on paper, and it's a great story, but the way it is presented to the player and the way it is woven into the game itself is much, much more well done in SH2. The biggest missed opportunity in 4's story is probably the ghosts. When you meet Cynthia, Richard, Andrew, etc your encounters with them are so brief and meaningless that it isn't very impactful at all when you later encounter them as ghosts, especially because there was no way to save them anyway. It would have been cool if you could fuck up and have Eileen die, at which point instead of being a fail-state, she becomes a very powerful ghost. It felt like in general they wanted to do so much more with dynamic interactions with ghosts, the apartment, etc but they were so short on time that it ended up quite stilted.

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to be fair, you did say Fatal Frame. not FF2 or 3. and from what i've heard, the first two are the best anyway, and while the storytelling may improve in the first two i really doubt there's anything to shake up the formula well enough to provide any genuine horror. either way, the series is far from underrated and there's really no denying that.. it gets a decent amount of love, which is why the first game left me so baffled.

if you wanna talk underrated horror, let's talk Siren. of course it's underrated because it's very obtuse, but it still deserves more love and praise than it's gotten.

1 is nowhere near 2.
1 is tedious trash while 2 is one of the best horror games of all time.

I dont know man, i REALLY wanted to like this game, i love the premise and the story is great, the game has a great atmosphere and a great sense of claustophobia and mystery
I dont even mind the clunky combat but god fucking damn do they try their hardest to make you hate the game

The game is manageable until you have to backtrack from the hospital, its just so terrible, the unkillable enemies, dumb AI,its just too much, it fucking sucks

Also the final boss is ass

Ito created concept art of the otherworld before the Silent Hill game was even an idea. During his university years he used images as inspiration to create concept art and he used abandoned Russian bases and factories as inspiration hence the extremely industrial look of it, that's how Silent Hill 1's otherworld came into existence. Ito is just a fan of decaying industrial ambients and that's why nearly all of his work has some of it.

Walter Sullivan was literally the most mentally screwed up character in the series, his otherworld should've looked like hell worse than the SH3 otherworld.

>James is willfully stupid
>the VAs are bad
Have you played the game in the last few years? Or are you this guy?
If you dont like story you might as well be knitting. Itll just be a different set of repetitive motions.

Silent hill 2 being good at symbolism has literally nothing to do with what I've mentioned. I've already said that was its strong point. You need great characters for a great story. You might not need a great plot, but luckily, silent Hill 2 has neither. It has great symbolism.

?
Is this the brain of a Silent Hill 2 fan firing on all cylinders?

well then, i'm glad i may very well be in for a surprise once i play it and 3 later this year. i still stand by my statement that it isn't underrated, though.

you know, i want to agree with all of that. i think i actually do. i just think it's unfair to hold it as /the/ golden standard of storytelling in gaming still when we've had so many great examples since. even insofar as the genre is concerned, i still think SH4 tops it despite not being as deep with its symbolism. it's simply a better horror story.

SH2 hits so well, but it does so on an intimate, more personal level. it's a tragedy moreso than a horror story, imo.

>most anons in this thread
youtu.be/0lhy9QnBHmo

the characterization, VA, and story are all just fine for what they set out to do. there are some very obvious Lynchian influences there, which i believe even Team Silent has admitted to. mentioning that more specifically for your VA complaints, as it's meant to make for a dreamlike, maladroit atmosphere. it may not be to your tastes, but that doesn't mean it isn't quality.

Anyone that says someone's name at the beginning of every address is literally retarded. This is like dialogue basics 101. Either James is supposed to be literally retarded or the writers are literally retarded.

>SH2 hits so well, but it does so on an intimate, more personal level. it's a tragedy moreso than a horror story, imo.
I agree. If you are looking for a strictly "horror" story, then SH4 is probably better. That's part of why I like SH2, it's like a character study/tragedy that uses horror as it's vessel.

>there are some very obvious Lynchian influences there, which i believe even Team Silent has admitted to.
this sounds like a pretentious meme but its 100% true. People complaining about SH2's characters being dumb/awkward are brainlets of the absolute highest caliber.
youtube.com/watch?v=qZowK0NAvig

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I love this.
>"The dialogue is supposed to be Lynchian and dreamlike."
The difference between something like Lynch and SH2 is that Lynch actually says something of note in his dialogue or something that's otherworldly that effectively captures "the otherness" that he was going for. If SH2 is trying to do this, then the attempt is completely hamfisted. I have already considered this possibility, and I have trouble believing people influenced by such good source material would bungle it so badly. It is definitive hackwork.

?
Is this legit supposed to prove your point?
This shit is 20x better than anything in SH2. How could they fuck it up so badly?

Lynch only works when you have straightmen in the scene. Please you retards stop pretending you have a shred of culture.

yeah, i can see that. i think that's why as a whole i do agree with you and SH2 is probably my preferred of the two. it's just a really difficult choice, and i do hate to undersell The Room.
>this sounds like a pretentious meme
i seriously think that, at this point, pretentious has just become a buzzword for people who have either no effective counter argument, or no actual understanding of the topic at hand. or, in this user's case, likely someone who feels threatened by "big words" and critical discussion.
Lynch is probably my favorite director and i have to disagree entirely. also, when has Lynch ever had anything of note to say in his dialog? it's all for the sake of building his atmosphere and little puzzles pieces of symbolism for the viewer. he certainly has things of note to say, but it isn't in his dialog. he's a visual artist.
>Lynch only works when you have straightmen in the scene.
sure, if you've only seen Twin Peaks. even then that would fall apart after The Return.

This.Otherworldness only works when it comes out of nowhere and affect a rather stale and normal setting

or it can work when, ya know, you're actually in an "otherworld".