Piracy is wro-

If piracy is right, what's even the point of digitally created goods?

if you can't justify your actions in less than 2 sentences then you're probably doing something wrong.

Jesus the mental gymnastics one has to do to justify piracy.

If she bleeds, she breeds.

That enough justification, for age of consent being 12?

imagine trying to rationalize being a thief that hard

there's nothing wrong with intellectual reproduction as long as you don't claim to be the author or profit off the reproduction without having established an agreement or compensation to the original author, would you like to tell someone a story invented by you and the guy starts selling his own book with your story on it and he doesn't give credits to you?
not to mention that in piracy you're copying a limitless product that has a pricetag, stories are free

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why do people feel the need to justify piracy? it doesnt matter at all, pirate what you want and buy what you want. are the people who seriously get up in arms about work think they work for the actual companies or something?

Justification is done at metaphorical gunpoint.
Anyone who succeeds in justification is someone who crushed the potential of another's justice.

Digital piracy, like any action, is an inevitable and natural transfer of energy.
Anyone who wants to argue morality might as well argue with the laws of physics for allowing whatever they perceive as injustice.

You're still a thief, keep stealing the shit you want. Just at least have the decency to at least keep it to yourself.

You're a fascist and a hypocrite.
I will do whatever the fuck I want and you can suck my dick.

free shit

You obviously haven't had anything taken from you.

>any sort of intellectual reproduction, including something as simple as retelling the plot of a story in your own words
no. retelling and remixes are considered "transformative works," and can be freely marketed and such. see loads of warhol's work. his paintings included many copyrighted cultural icons and brands, but it was put into a context where they became unique.

there's a lot of false dilemmas here. you can't boil down a complex issue like this to a simple point system. I've taken actual symbolic logic, and there's some nutty stuff going on.

came here to post this as well. if you're gonna pirate, just do it. you dont need to join some club or spread the word or whatever. just do what you want. no one gives a fuck.

Funny. The usual name shills call pirates is "poorfags", now pirates have "never had anything taken from them".

Charging for a download is unethical and immoral. Piracy needs to be legal.

Is it that obvious that I was born to a perfect world and nothing bad ever happened to me and that's why I advocate copying of digital goods?

>the terms of use which say you aren't allowed to reproduce the book

retard completely missed the fucking point wow amazing shock and awe

It's literally free shit without zero repercussion.

Only retards raised in turbo-consumerist societies or spoiled children who have no concept about the value of money have no problem paying 60 dollars for something they can get absolutely free.

Think of it like a compensation that the product's creator feels he deserves for his efforts on making a game you'll probably enjoy.

My favorite pirates that try to justify their piracy are the ones that complain about Denovo.
>"I'm not going to buy this game because it has Denovo, great job publisher you just lost a sale!"
>Denovo is cracked or gets removed
>"Haha, get fucked Denovofags I'm gonna go pirate this game now and you can't stop me!"
Like motherfucker you were never gonna buy the game, stop making excuses for being a cheapass.

>if you aren't stealing from your boss, you're stealing from your children

It isn't wrong unless you try to profit off the piracy itself.

i honestly believe those are falseflaggers that arent even gonna pirate or play the game. i swear in the denuvo threads there are no screencaps or proof that anyone is playing it or downloading it

fuck off commie

Reasons to pirate:

>1. You don't want to pay for something you can get for free.

There that's it. Anyone talking about DRM or evil corporations is a faggot.

I'm not a commie dude. I support intellectual property and charging for games.

>people who have the means to legally profit will do it
>people who don't have the means to legally profit will find other ways

People have smuggled, contrabanded, pirated and avoided all sorts of "legal" taxes since the beginning of historical capitalism, and that won't change as long as the end-game of the system is the maximization of one's individual profit. Licit and illicit have always coexisted in market economy rather than nulling each other: some countries' taxation laws almost indirectly enforces pirating and other criminal activities and said governments knows it to the point of often turning a blind-eye to such practices. There is a reason countries like Brazil and Russia are among the kings of pirating and I won't even get into what China does and encourages.

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Why should I give them money for something that is infinite and that I can get for free in a superior manner? Maybe if there were some value added physical product, but even then I would be paying for the physical product.
They are unethical and immoral if they feel they deserve my money while I get nothing in return.
>but you get hours of entertainment from their game
Which I can get in a superior manner and for free while taking nothing from the developer.
The video game industry justifies piracy for me. Of course I wouldn't pay for it even if it didn't have Denuvo since I'm not willing to pay for a download license, I don't even use Steam or GoG

When you shill for a game that sold 10m copies and you bought it when you knew where and how to steal it, you suck dicks 100% guaranteed.
Let the casual ignorant mainstream masses take the bump of the production costs, reap the benefits. Only ever buy when it's something that could never be made again without your support, or games that you desperately want to play online.
Also, anything that sells past 3m doesn't need your help, pirate the everloving shit out of it.

tfw too low iq to understand this post

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Charging for a download is communist though, see Karl Marx' labor theory of value.

stop using the term "piracy" to describe unauthorized file-sharing.
see:

I agree with you 12 is good enough. Based pedoposter

He's not stealing anything though.

buycucks btfo

You get a game in exchange of your money. Consider that a videogame is just for recreational purposes, it's not food or anything a human fundamentally needs to survive.
It doesn't matter if electronic products are infinite. If a developer used his knowledge, spent his time and effort making a piece of software to sell to other people who want to use the software for their own profit (entertainment in this case), why isn't the developer entitled to a material profit (money) too?

>person A starts a business selling burgers
>person B buys a burger, analyses it, reverse engineers the recipe, and starts handing out identical burgers for free opposite person A's restaurant
>this is completely fine and won't harm the burger business, person A should have just made burgers so good that people would pay for them instead of going to the other restaurant for free
>pirate logic

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>stealing
youtube.com/watch?v=0Qkyt1wXNlI

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Can you give me a quick rundown instead?

Where did the person B buy the ingredients to mass produce burgers the person A made and why hasn't he gone bankrupt yet if he keeps giving things he can't create out of thin air for free?

anachronistic business practices being swept into the dustbin of history thanks to technological progress. it's happening everywhere, everyday. burger guy just needs to learn to code.

if you could pirate food there would be no world hunger. Anti-piratefags literally believe that is immoral

>opposite person A's restaurant
Completely untrue.

Not gonna lie, OP. I had a very good chuckle at that post, I hope it was ironic.
Show me one piracy group able to create a replica of the game from scratch, similar to what A_5 did when "it" recreated the book using the printer and then I'll agree that piracy is moral.
t. pirate 90% of my games.

>comparing food to a recreational product

>.jpg
Nah, you type that shit out or fuck off.

That's what the retarded frogposter did.

get the dick out of your mouth faggot

Only virgins try to justify piracy, chads relish in getting away with stealing.

The developer isn't entitled to my money because what I receive is infinite and I can get it in other ways for free. The idea that just because time was put into something means it is worth money is a communist idea as was noted a few posts above.
I'm not entitled to the game for free either, but I can get it for free without taking from someone since all it takes is essentially a copy and paste so it doesn't matter.
I don't see how that scenario is bad, the difference though is that burgers are finite and every time a burger is made finite time and resources are consumed unlike a game which is infinite

youtu.be/wB8Nkum3QAY

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there's a character limit, dipshit

Pirates are the illegal immigrants or negligent tenants of the consumer world. You can't really blame them for acting out of their own self-interest but they place a tangible burden on society and services, and the cost gets passed on to people who participate in the system who find it mutually beneficial to the producer and the consumer. Their presence is an example of the Free-Rider Problem and somewhat related to the Tragedy of the Commons. You don't need to invoke any sort of moral system to mathematically figure out they're a net burden.

Downloading in itself is making a copy so all you have to do is copy that and it's different.
Where the information itself comes from is inconsequential and can't be proved or disproved.

being burdensome doesn't equate to or entail being immoral.

Name a single developer that went under due to copyrignt infringement of their games by individuals. I'll wait.

I love free games.
I love free software.
I love free films.
I love free music.
I love free books.
I even pirate the pics of patreon artists.
Internet piracy is truly the most beautiful thing of our age. It's the very definition of freedom. It's a shame you brainwashed landlubbers can't enjoy it with us.

>The idea that just because time was put into something means it is worth money is a communist idea as was noted a few posts above.

So you're saying you should never pay the labor costs of an electrician, mechanic, plumber, etc. because they're doing something you could've done on your own for free with some research? What would make their time worth paying for as opposed to the people who spent their time making a game?

Piracy is illegal because it is a violation of intellectual property. Piracy is socially acceptable because it is harmless at a consumer level.

For example, CD Projekt Red loses nothing if you pirate Cyberpunk 2077 but if they allow you to pirate Cyberpunk 2077 it sets a precedent elsewhere. If you're legally allowed to pirate Cyberpunk 2077, what's stopping GameStop from selling their own legally pirated copies? Absolutely nothing. Antipiracy may seem trivial but it prevents shenanigans elsewere.

I pirate because I can do it easily on PC, because I'm living on a student budget and because most modern games are shit filled with MTX/DLC
If I do buy games its because they're multiplayer focused, or on the PS4 of which I only have one. If I had another one I would jailbreak it to pirate games, but considering games launch broken as fuck now with patches needed to be installed, the hassle isn't worth it.
Nintendo games are easy fuck to pirate though. Their "a delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad" philosophy is ultimately what fucks them.

>very definition of freedom
>can't pirate shit if you don't own a computer
nah senpai.

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In the Tragedy of the Commons there is an open access resource that gets depleted by uncooperative selfish consumers, it's impossible to deplete a file that can be copied indefinitely and pirates cooperate with one another all the time, whether it's by actively helping on cracking software or seeding.
Your comparison between piracy and illegal immigration is equally wrong because pirates use their own hardware and resources to crack and distribute software so the carrying capacity of the system scales with the amount of pirates.

While I don't think piracy is immoral, you're conflating two different definitions of freedom here, which is fallacious.

>ng
reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/7dygsl/piracy_is_wrong/
reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/86bbmp/cmv_digital_piracy_is_morally_wrong/
prove me wrong faggots

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>"intellectual" "property"

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@452903171
>reddit

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That's why I mentioned morals don't need to be invoked. Their presence is simply a burden to the developers who want to put out a quality product that is also profitable and the consumers willing to pay to sustain this cycle that gives them their product. Pirates can roughly be compared to gunk in mechanical gear system that would ideally be a closed loop sealed from the elements. It can be cleaned out periodically but the gunk will always reappear and attract grit and necessitate an unnecessary cost and downtime to fix.

You should come around for catapult April.

>452903171
>unironically linking r*ddid
>while using that image

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I remember when I was a kid, I could borrow games from and to my friends.
Now digitally, such a thing considered theft, even if I gave permission to them.

Funny, huh?
Also,
you couldn't stop people from burning games to cd:s back in the day, and you can't stop them from pirating them either.
As a dev or publisher, you should be striving to make a product worthy of praise so people actually WANT to pay you, instead of doing your best in making your product unmoddable and always online

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>Their presence is simply a burden to the developers who want to put out a quality product
Their presence is free advertising. Those that want to pay for it will do so. When Undertale was released, the very same day the entire game has been uploaded as a rar here. It didn't stop it from becoming massive. Stop this shit already.

Yet cleaning that gunk is stripping people of their individual rights.

>le get out facepunch frog

you are just as bad as that redditor, take your own advice

This, and fuck the music industry and scotus for trying to rob me of my property.

that image is older than you, son

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Lawfag here.

You are retarded.

If I pay for an electrician, plumber, etc then I am paying for their finite time so it isn't the same. If I could infinitely copy and paste an electrician, plumber, etc's act of working like I can a game then you would have a point. The only thing close would be commissioning a dev to make a game, you would be paying for them to use their finite time to make the game. What about the difference between finite and infinite do you not understand?

>Like motherfucker you were never gonna buy the game

Implying

Piracy alone is insufficient enough to cause a collapse of a developer, but it can be a contributory cause to larger financial burdens on a studio. The CD Key controversy with sites like G2A are a decent example of this.

Hence why I said somewhat. The depletable resource is the developer's effort and the associated cost which went into making the game a playable thing, which is what you're really paying for. People can also cooperate in a burdensome sense in the real economy, such as tax sheltering.

>"NOOOOOOOOOO R*DDIT BAD"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Yikes"

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No, I don't buy denuvo games on principle because I still remember what Starforce and Securom were like and how I can no longer play the games that I legally fucking own because their shitty "protection' services are not supported by later OS's. I am forced to resort to what you call "Theft" to play the game I fucking own because shitforce had cut their support and their windows7 compatibility patches do nothing you fucking mongoloid.

Piracy is simply the most economically optimal choice for any given individual.

What you receive was created and brought to you by the developer. It doesn't matter if the stock is infinite because you're still using his product to your own profit, so it's not far-fetched that he wants a compensation for the work and time he spent creating it. You're not paying for the game, you're paying for the developer's work on the game, and consider he didn't just spend time: he also had to spend money to buy software and acquire the necessary knowledge to create a videogame.
Expecting to play for free without wanting to compensate the people who made the game for you is a shitty move. I don't give a fuck if it's a communist idea, it's a matter of common sense.

haha, poorfags, just buy the games

gmod kid thinks get out originated on SA
cringe

Video game is a service. Not paying for a service might be a dick move, but I do it and will continue to do as long as I can get away with it because I am a dick head.
Why people think I need justification for my action I will never understand. What's wrong with being morally wrong? What are you going to do? Cite the Bible?

This is fallacy of the heap. The same argument could be made transitioning from the perfectly fine "friendly shoulder punch" to "stabbing". Clearly at some point it becomes immoral (or the original case was actually immoral to a degree so small no one would ever call it that) but it would be impossible to point out where it happens.

Even if we removed the legality out of the situation, there is a clear difference between "remembering something you borrowed" and "refusing to pay for something you could easily afford because you want it for free". Which is why I don't try to justify myself to anonymous people on the internet when I'm a cheap bastard.

It's a faulty argument that introduces a new premise right before the conclusion, while also ignoring reality
the argument is that because talking about a book you liked but paid to enjoy is legal and acceptable, it would be fine if you had a perfect memory and was able to reproduce that book word for word for someone else to consume, except without needing to pay for it.
The issue is that while you aren't forbidden from discussing a book you paid for, you are indeed prohibited from making copies of the content without permission. Paraphrasing is paraphrasing and copying / quoting is copying / quoting.

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digital goods are an infinite resource, you can't charge me for getting a bucket of water from the ocean.

I just pirate because I want to and I can.
Fuck your justifications, nigger

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Piracy is moral because there is no such thing as intellectual property. Anything digital is nothing but a mathematical construct, and being able to "own" a piece of math is absolutely bonkers.

youtube.com/watch?v=IeTybKL1pM4

has any game been pirated so much that the developer made literally nothing off it, or at least was pirated way, way more than it was purchased?

It is the same though, when you buy a game you're paying the labor costs of those that helped make that game a reality. You seem to have this weird idea that games are created by shoving blank checks into a computer and they auto-generate video games. When a person buys a game you're paying for the end result of a person's labor. By your theory we shouldn't have to pay for anything because everything is the byproduct of another person's labor.
Are you justifying communism?

Just a reminder that while you're paying $60 per videogame, I'm paying $0 (zero US dollars) and while you're seething over pirates pirating, I feel as if I just downloaded any freeware game.

>C'mon, Reddit isn't that bad guys!

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>nigger
ironic

I think Spore was pirated more than it was bought

>implying niggers own pcs, let alone have the technical knowledge to pirate

there is no point, seething cuckold. I get you read books faggot

So you wouldn’t mind if I stole some objects that you owned?

>first link compares games to donuts
If that was an equal comparison, I would make a single donut, people would come to my shop, eat that donut, and it would come back into existence as if they never touched it. Instead in reality that person has to labor every single day they feel like selling a donut. On top of that, the donut needs to be fresh, so their labor will sometimes cost them money instead of making them money. Now compare the cost of lost donuts to the cost of lost income from piracy. It doesn't even come close to breaking even. You want me to defend piracy while simultaneously bringing up an example with a worse outcome than piracy, and an outcome that we consider an acceptable part of business?

>second link claims piracy reduces profits
I can't argue against someone that is too stupid to realize this is false. It is so obvious why it is false that it should fundamentally be impossible for someone to not understand, yet here you are...

Property rights do not dictate what is moral or immoral, only what is legal. Intellectual property is illegal; refusing to reward people asking for a reasonable sum is a "dick move".

Boohoo, people are being fed for free. What a sad world.

Best answers ITT

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>The only thing close would be commissioning a dev to make a game, you would be paying for them to use their finite time to make the game.
You do know when you buy a game part of the profits from that game actually does go towards paying the artists, programmers, developers, engineers, etc. for the time they spent making it, right?

There's no problem if said objects can be copied without limit for free.

i remember that. Why do you think it was pirated so much more? I remember the DRM being atrocious, and the game ended up being like 10% of what was promised.

>leddit thinks piracy is wrong

That's your refutation. Now, go back.

>Hence why I said somewhat. The depletable resource is the developer's effort and the associated cost which went into making the game a playable thing, which is what you're really paying for. People can also cooperate in a burdensome sense in the real economy, such as tax sheltering.
I'm not sure their efforts are depleted when someone pirates a copy of their game, that'd be more like someone stealing a service. For a service a non-paying customers costs them time and resources, but the pirate is making an illegal copy themselves and no matter how many copies are made, the original is left intact. In today's market, developers can generate infinite keys for their product through Steam or any similar distribution platforms.
So it's not an outright lost but an opportunity cost one, but that requires you to believe the fallacy that everyone who pirates a game has the means to buy it and will buy it if it's not possible to pirate it instead of just playing something else.
Also unless the game is self published, the entity that faces losses is the publishers, not the developers. Especially if we are talking about big publishers that seem to fire a lot of people, even after record profits. I'm not saying this a s a justification for piracy, but to illustrate that many developers aren't even affected by it, they get their paychecks anyways.

I doubt it
I bet sims is way more pirated than spore, simply because it's retail price is ridiculous
Seriously, that shit is 100% rip off thanks to the dlc totaling 4-8 times more money than the actual game.

Another "most pirated" game, would probably be CS 1.6 or Warcraft 3
I remember both of these games being installed on all of my school computers on each school I've been in.

Haha oh wow someone screen capped that? Is this babbys first logic class? Let me just copy this car and house for free because according to that post, it is mathematically moral!

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Piracy is 100% wrong. Attacking and stealing from other ships is super duper bad. Copyright infringement is what you mean and is a different story.

And I suppose the books, digital media, and games create themselves from nothing?

correct, free housing is literally morally right

Who pays the carpenters, architects, and property owners?

It doesn't... Lets look at this closely. You are saying that by paying the distributor, who gives a share to the publisher, who has already paid a set amount to the developer, that you are paying the developer. Okay based on that logic, I went and ate food today. That food was served to me by a younger guy, that younger guy probably used his check to buy a video game at some point. That money then went to the publisher, who paid the developer. So I paid for a video game today.

>inb4 food analogy
Hey, you say something fucked up, I say something fucked up.

Did you not watch the video?

People love to say "piracy is theft", as you can see in this thread, but theft is immoral. So yeah, I have a good reason to argument why copying is not immoral.

>refusing to reward people asking for a reasonable sum is a "dick move"
People refuse to pay because the company who made the software wouldn't think twice before suing your ass for it, or shoving digital AIDS that does God knows what inside your computer.

That's the point, your analogy is shit.

giger-niggers

Literally retarded.

If you copied the house, why would you be paying a bunch of people that had nothing to do with your house? Do you not know what "copied" means?

im sure the builders of the original house were compensated, but we're talking about the theoretical unlimited copying of said house - something that does NOT require carpenters, architects or property owners

What? What the fuck?

refer to >"certain redditors bad, therefore reddit bad"
>"DO I FIT IN YET???"
>"guys???"
logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/88/Fallacy-of-Composition

>he doesn't want free vidya

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IN ENGLISH, DOC

>People love to say "piracy is theft", as you can see in this thread, but theft is immoral. So yeah, I have a good reason to argument why copying is not immoral.
I have no idea what this has to do with anything I said. Piracy isn't theft. Just because something does not violate property rights doesn't mean it's moral (the contrary being true as well).

>People refuse to pay because the company who made the software wouldn't think twice before suing your ass for it, or shoving digital AIDS that does God knows what inside your computer.
And you and I both know this does not apply to all pirates for all games from all companies. Who would have thought that morality is subjective! What would normally be considered immoral can become neutral or even moral given the circumstances.

It is though. We get bonuses based on monthly earnings of our game. In a very Kevin Baconesque way a fraction of your purchase goes towards keeping a roof over my head.

Give me a reason why not to pirate that doesn't involve morality or giving the devs money, because I don't give a fuck about those.

>property owners
You mean that descendants of the guy who fucked everyone else out of the land and made it law not to question this? Bootlicker.

>go to apple store
>really want apple
>need to pay money
>buy apple from guy and enjoy my fruit
>30 years later
>apple guy abandons shop
>store still has apple cores
>go inside to get the cores because apple guy isnt making a profit anymore need the seeds
>cops show up
>get arrested for stealing apple core that belong to no one
>"HURR DUUURRR GUBURRRRRRRR STEALING WRONG"
>mfw

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But it still takes space, still requires the transfer of material. Which isnt free. Someone is paying for you to pirate. You can literally not pirate without the help of someone else's time, which is not free and therefore stealing. You are stealing their time and space.

But I copied it myself.
Is cleaning my house immoral because I didn't pay a maid to do it for me?

Copying a house equals cleaning it, everybody

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If piracy isnt a crime then why isnt everyone having one guy buy a game or movie and then infinitely distributing it? I mean, fuck whoever made those things right?

That wasn't really a fallacy, you built up an argument he never made to attack it, that's a strawman on your part.

>"DO I FIT IN YET???"
I've been seeing this used as a point of attack here a lot recently, are you with the discord trannies or it this just a new meme getting pushed or what?

They literally create themselves from nothing physical the second they're put online. Copying =/= stealing.

I like how this thread has roundabout become pirates justifying Communism because they don't wanna pay for another person's work.

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Morality is objective.

I pay for games if I want to support the dev. If I don't want to support them I don't pay.
Stop me. Force me to stop doing it, then I'll stop.

t. brainlet that doesn't know squat about economy

intellectual property is a corruption of capitalism. Pure capitalism does not allow for intellectual "property". Read some Hoppe, nigger.

>Force me to stop doing it
What part of "intellectual property is illegal" and "piracy isn't theft" didn't you understand.

I don't see how the statement
>Refusing to pay a reasonable amount that you can afford to people who are worth supporting is kind of mean.
Is a controversial.

It's an example of how doing something yourself instead of purchasing a product or service is technically bad for the economy and thus some retarded consumerist might consider it immoral Brave New World style.
For example, sharing software as opposed to buying a new license.

>hard drives aren't physical
Are you retarded? Where the fuck do you think that data is stored? Do you know what a server is?

>brings up Reddit sources as evidence
>"N-NO L*DDIT B-BAD B-BECAUSE LEDDITORS B-BAD"
>"isn't that a fallacy of composi-"
>"LALALALA BURDEN OF PROOF WHERE'S YOUR PROOF! L-L*DDIT ISN'T PROOF DURR"
kill yourself

It's exactly what libraries do, distribute the works for free, imagine if all the great minds of human history were unable to access the information they needed because they couldn't afford to pay. Libraries are not communism, they are public services, the Greeks luaghed at the notion of equality and even had a play about a communistic society failing, they still had libraries and encouraged the public sharing of information.

Says who?

Isn't that asinine though? I mean, putting it bluntly your paid vs pirated scenario is basically
>I like this developer so I'll pay them to feed garbage down my throat
or
>I hate this developer so I'll show them how much I hate them by still shovelling their fecal matter down my gullet, but I did it for free!
If you don't like the guy and don't support them, just don't get the product in any way shape or form. It's a vast sea of games out there, after all.

>Presenting the argument like some faggot neckbeard actually made a AAA game from his basement and he didn't simply take what someone else made
I know you faggots are disingenuous but this is really fucking reaching.

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>takes space
The only space it takes is the space that you already own.

>still requires the transfer of material
Huh? We are talking about copying right? The only thing that is transferred is an idea which is indeed free.

>Someone is paying for you to pirate
Who?

>You can literally not pirate without the help of someone else's time
Since when?

>You are stealing their time and space
Who has lost time and space? Please elaborate on this point.

He never said any of that though, are you a woman?

He won't stop you, but devs using increasingly more invasive and restrictive DRM schemes will. This is not an arms race that code monkeys working for free in their spare time can win. And when you finally lose for good because securom or whatever becomes too impenetrable, everyone else will suffer because of your selfishness

My opinion:
Morality isn't a basic "X is moral, and so is Y, so Z is moral" but more a case of "Does Z FEEL moral?" If I had to resort to facts and logic to make something moral I can safely assume it's immoral, at least in my eyes.
I'm not going to let this make me stop you doing what you want though - that's your business.

>"Saying an entire website is bad because it's (some of its) users are bad isn't a fallacy!"
ok buddy

>piracy is wro-
youtube.com/watch?v=0Qkyt1wXNlI

I said it was a shit place and provided evidence.
You're strawmanning that and can't even be bothered to prove that it is not a shit place. Don't bother replying if you can't even manage that.

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>What part of "intellectual property is illegal" and "piracy isn't theft" didn't you understand.

The part where I keep doing it and nothing is happening to me. Is it because I use a VPN? Why won't you stop me?

>dude just make up mathematic axioms lmao
Kant here
if everyone pirated video games, there would no longer be any video games, therefore piracy is a societal wrong

>"He never said that!"
>literally implies the website is bad because of its users

Dude what? The code monkeys always win. The game companies have a finite amount of time to spend. Code monkeys can tinky for years, and there are far more of them than there are devs working on DRM for game companies.

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>burger wizard starts conjuring free burgers for everyone and solves world hunger
based americans

Whoever bought the game pays for it. Explain to me how you can pirate anything without them buying and uploading the data and then having others sees. And then finally, the bandwidth you consume pirating, as well as the time of any parties hosting the game/selling it.

>The part where I keep doing it and nothing is happening to me. Is it because I use a VPN? Why won't you stop me?
Are you illiterate, mate? You think I have the exact opposite position when I've made it clear in every reply so far that's not the case.

A bunch of nobodies, you know? Plato, Kant, all christian philosophers...

>this continuous argument that has no real financial impact over the industry
We might as well argue over whether or not a black white chinese albino hermaphrodite who was born male and presents themselves as female living in Mexico but attending school in Spain is morally acceptable to kill a 3 legged goat void of genitalia dying from radiation poisoning in Guatemala in the month of June while on vacation.

I didn't know the hard drives were being stolen.

>The only thing that is transferred is an idea which is indeed free.
But that's not what happens though. When you copy something, as is the case with pirating a game, you don't just get ideas of how the game's put together. You get all the batch files, executables, asset files, etc etc. necessary to have a proper working copy of the game. That's hardly just a transfer of idea.

>sees
Seed*

This is going to be the new copypasta right? I'm down with this

>creates themselves from nothing, user says
>hue hue I'm not stealing hard drives, user says
Fuck I'm glad you losers aren't running the world

Then fuck off retard.

I implied nothing, everything about the image is terrible, not just the users involved.

>Says the person who literally was unable to read "piracy shouldn't be illegal but it can still be morally wrong" for an entire conversation and thought I wanted to put him in jail.

Paying for video games gives the kinds of people who write video games money.
When the kinds of people who write video games have money, they can get female attention and possibly breed.
When the kinds of people who write video games breed, the gene pool is polluted.

Piracy keeps the gene pool clean.

I'm old user. I know about this thing called rentals. You see, you pay a company for a limited amount of time with a product, then you give it back to them. No internet is involved. Anything else you want to know about the ancient and archaic world I grew up in?

The official servers are irrelevant and the pirate servers put up something easily reproducible with no charge. Copying =/= stealing.

>if everyone pirated video games, there would no longer be any video games
You have to prove that. And we have evidence of the contrary, since the FOSS community is very happy and healthy.

Fuck off anti-pirate cucks.

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Typical theists.

advanced autism.

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>literally implies the website is bad because of its users

Do you use that piece of crap because you like the background themes? Fuck off, you dishonest cunt.

>all this steamcuck pay piggies and corporate employee shills in this thread seething because their masters are losing money

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Yeah, fuck off, your argument is retarded. Morally wrong thing that isn't illegal doesn't matter. Moral relativity is a thing.

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Top kek this is something I'll be able to laugh about for a while. This is troglodyte-tier.

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If you're going to ignore the heap of evidence piled up in this thread and laugh like the ignorant retard you are, that's your choice.

As someone that pirates all the time; fuck off you autistic nigger

Nobody is making proper moral arguments against piracy. The argument is more just "companies need pay, that's how capitalism works, you should pay companies" and "it's impractical to ban people retelling stories in their own words but it's perfectly practical to ban people taking the work and just making copies of it to give to other for free so that those people can avoid paying".

This entire thread is entirely subjective and full of dumbass opinions. The FACT is piracy is illegal. Now what? Your opinion doesnt matter, it is illegal.

Why are you going against my post fellow piratebro? What's the beef?

>You get all the batch files, executables, asset files, etc etc
Those things are ideas user. They are formulated thoughts that are recorded. They aren't physical objects. Looking at the house as an example, in order to copy that house, I can't take anything physical from it. I take the idea aka data, and use my own resources to recreate it. Computers work the same way. They take the idea, and store that information using local resources such as a hard drive. Would you call it theft if I went outside and built a wagon from scratch? I didn't come up with the idea of creating a wagon. Do you think it was effortless for the first person who created that wagon? Why should I benefit from that person's work for free? When you know the answer to that, you will finally start to understand.

>This entire thread is entirely subjective and full of dumbass opinions.
Again, your choice if you want to believe that.
>The FACT is piracy is illegal. Now what? Your opinion doesnt matter, it is illegal.
That was never the point of this thread to begin with.

>"I said my subjective, personal opinion and provided a collection of images that is meant to generalize millions of users and support my personal biases. You're """strawmanning""" that and can't even be bothered to prove that my subjective opinion is wrong. Don't bother replying if you can't even manage that."

>[video game] is bad because (some of) its players are bad!
If you can't see anything wrong with this statement, then you're right, I shouldn't reply back.
>"Everything is bad, not just users involved!" >all of the images consist of Reddit users doing saying things (you) don't like

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The FACT is you can't stop me. An unenforceable crime might as well not be a crime.

>literally not getting the point
Are you really this stupid? The point is that generalizing the users of a website (let alone an entire website, in general) based on a couple of users is a fallacy of composition no matter which you slice it.

I dunno man. It takes all sorts of different programs and various other editors to make those files. Just because it's ones and zeroes stored on a hard drive I don't see how the copy is merely an idea. It's not like you go and run an unreal editor to put shit together when you go pirate a copy of Arkham Knight, as an example.

you cant stop me from finding cats on the street, taking them to my house, and slowly torturing them to death. An unenforcable crime might as well not be a crime

>someone has decided to give away food for free to hungry people
>this is bad because some mcshit business will now fail
Every day Americans stray further from God's light.

>haha im such an epic pirate lmao xDD i dont give a fuck
>and to show i dont give a fuck im gonna desperately justify why its not wrong
Just pirate shit you turbo niggers.

I disagree with the premises. I am all for using formal logic when it is absolutely necessary, but this is a blatant attempt to map lay intuition to rigid logic. You can tell by many archaic useless words thrown in that he only wants to seem smart by being difficult to understand.

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>-ng
There, i finished the sentence for you. Piracy is wrong.

>meant to generalize millions of users and support my personal biases.
Again, if you're going to say it's untrue, PROVE IT.
>You're """strawmanning""" that
Again, I'm not. The fact that this is being discussed online instead of with others you trust, the fact that its been consistently upvoted and supported by others both before and after, and the fact the person in question actually posted a picture of themselves are all degenerate as fuck and unjustifiable. Since you keep forgetting it, I'll say it again. If these traits aren't characteristic of the site as a whole, PROVE IT.
>>all of the images consist of Reddit users doing saying things (you) don't like
No shit, and I've already explained why no one should like it.

You can't get the work of an electrician/mechanic/plumber for free, though.

I agree. Where do you think you are?

Not him but you're completely wrong. The individual has already been paid for their labor. What, you think they work for free until the game gets sold and then months later they get a check? The coders, voice actors, etc. etc. are already paid.

Hyperbolic analogies don't make your position look right, they make you look like a lunatic who sees everything in extremes.

>haha im such an epic shitposter lmao xDD i dont give a fuck
>and to show i dont give a fuck im gonna take time to post

>I even pirate the pics of patreon artists from 8 months back before everyone started hiding their shit behind discord, private messages, and cash-per-post
fixed

>It takes all sorts of different programs and various other editors to make those files
Yes, current things are made with knowledge from the past. That is how everything works. A modern car wouldn't exist without a piece of shit that was barely any better than a wagon. Ideas build and grow. They build and grow off of unpaid work too. Look at open source materials like Linux. Things that take TONS of effort. You could say trillions of dollars went into making these free things. Do you think corporations pay a dime towards anyone when they use open source code? You are trying to argue a small point in a complex world in order to get a tiny number of people to contribute towards the greed of an even tinier group of men. Do you not consider that frugal? Should everything come at a cost to make sure everyone gets their "fair" share? Do you want to live in the stone ages to make sure that is accomplished?

That's the equivalent of a tip to a waiter. It's your employers arbitrary choice to give you a bonus and that choice isn't dependent on the actions of the consumer. Functionally you have already been paid for your labor before the game ever hits the shelves.

Yes you can.
Just don't pay the bill.

You would face legal consequences if you attempted to do so. This also doesn't work when the other party requests the payment up front.

>What, you think they work for free until the game gets sold and then months later they get a check
Indie dev companies literally live and die by sales. This is absolutely how they operate.

The few times I have paid for a game is because I wanted a physical copy. I paid for the physical product, the game 1s and 0s itself are monetarily valueless to me. I buy physical books, I am paying for the book in official physical form, an ebook is worth no money to me even if it is my favorite book.
The developers are already paid by the company they work for, the company and indie devs who are only paid when a pay pig gives them money are speculators and are not entitled to money.
Our system is built on scarcity, an infinite game should be worthless. I don't care if companies fuck other companies over, piracy should be legal for consumers as long as they don't profit from it. Piracy websites should be able to make money from ads and donations since they are not directly profting from the IP like Steam does from unethically and immorally charging for a download. A piracy website can make ad revenue without anyone ever downloading something from the website. I prefer torrents but legal piracy would give normies a legal alternative.

A wee bit flustered, huh?

>You would face legal consequences if you attempted to do so
Same for pirating, buddy. As it should be. Give it time.

>You would face legal consequences if you attempted to do so
Its sad that this doesn't actually matter. All the court will do is order them to pay you. They won't force them to pay you and the gobermint only deducts wages when THEY are the ones owed money.

>actually believing this
The most you'll get is new games becoming impossible to pirate from games being streamed in the future.

Yes the COMPANIES, not the individual WORKERS. You can't afford as a laborer to wait until your product is actually sold and money gets back to your employer to receive a cut. That's probably illegal practice to pay a worker that way. An official employee receives a salary or is paid by the hour, an artist or voice actor receives payment by the employer for work done, the consumer is not even involved in these transactions so it is impossible for the consumer to "steal" from these people.