When does this game get good?

did you play it?

Well beat that boss and you’re in for a surprise.
Remember to upgrade your nail as soon as you get the mantis claws

So are the dreamers like cut content and originally planned to be bosses? I just woke up the spider lady and she has all this crazy build up and a giant platform to fight her in the dream realm and she just stands there ready to be smacked.

i can't understand how it's made by 3 people

while companies like nintendo couldn't make a metroid like this even if their lives depended on it

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>So are the dreamers like cut content and originally planned to be bosses?
nope

If you look at the OG trailers a large spider boss is depicted that was likely cut from the game. There is a large stomping noise and screeching when you get raped by the vampires in the distant village that isnt really explained so odds are the fight was supposed to take place right after you escape their rapechurch.

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Don't forget AM2R, which it was made by one person

Buy Zelda BOTW and Hollow Knight on my switch at the same time

>Play some Zelda but mainly playing Hollow Knight

Oh... That was a waste of $80

Made by many many people what are you talking about

>liking multiplayer
>pretending to be boomer

You are doing something wrong

After a couple of movement options it drastically increases in enjoyability but it gets *really* good once you reach the City of Tears

What is CS Source?
What is Quake?
It's almost as if a person's perchant for singleplayer/multiplayer isnt decided by a narrow age range and a forced shitty meme. Go outside and talk to someone some time.

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>Game that sells itself on atmosphere
>Wanting another person there to spout memes and detract from said atmosphere

>Why you like this game fucking zoomers
Your list sounds more like the perfect boomer game that isn't a shooter or rts.

keep trying
you can't fool anyone

>>no multiplayer
>bad

>Sidescrool
What the problem with it being a side-scroller, exactly?
>2d grafics
Extremely pretty 2d graphics. Again, what's the problem?
>No multiplayer
You're saying that like it's a bad thing. I don't think that HK is a game that would benefit from having multiplayer.

is it technically possible to get mantis claw before the dash?

I'd argue that the 90's and 2000's had more 'pure' multiplayer type games.

This was peak Ultima Online, SWG, and Everquest. Games where all the mechanics were part and parcel with the socio political system.

>I'd argue that the 90's and 2000's had more 'pure' multiplayer type games.

2000s is not boomer.
there's a reason /vr/ stops at 1999

>every other Metroidvania game is 7-10 hours long to ensure frequent changes of scenery and powerups
>HK takes the same formula and stretches it out over 50+ hours
>Yea Forums thinks this is a good thing
I don't get it.

>>HK takes the same formula and stretches it out over 50+ hours
people can do 112% in 3 hours without cheats or bugs.

git gud

A speedrun and a normal first-time run are not the same thing, retard.

> 50 hours
seems like the retard is you here

When you can wallcling and walljump. So at the beginning.
It's amazing how well made and tought the world is

howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=26286
>Completionist
>47 Hours

howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=9390
>Completionist
>9 Hours

In conclusion, HK is 90% boring filler.

AM2R had a ton of contributors.
It also took nine years to be finished.

>50 hours
>I'm through most of the game and the majority of the side content in less than half that, even with taking my sweet time
Git gud.

Honestly, I'm not sure. I've played it for about an hour and it just feels like a sonic game but without the speed.

I quit after it and glad I pirated it first to check it out.

For a metroidvania, it's pretty boring without much variation

/thread

>and it just feels like a sonic game but without the speed.
you never played super metroid?

when you stop being underage

>if a game is 10 minutes long and other game is 10 hours long it means the second game has 9 hours and 50 minutes of filler

you literally didnt play the game

I honestly think you'd have to be underage or an actual manchild to enjoy Hollow Knight. It's so childish looking.

What's the source of that unicorn?

is this the new HK thread?

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If you want a legit complaint make it about how you can facetank so many bosses in HK

>why isn't this platforming game a Dark Soul clone

Aww, are there not enough chains and skulls in it for you, Mister Edgelord? Mad that there isn't Mortal Kombat tier gore?

it's shitty boss design if I can just stand still and mash attack to win

do not open this.

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gameplay wise the dreamers kind of suck but in terms of the ingame world they make total sense. They have been in charge of keeping the vessel contained for an untold period of time, and by the time you show up they don't fucking care anymore and let you kill them so they can experience the sweet release of death

Why do people love this game's plot/lore so much? It seems so bland to me, from what I've read of it.

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Well i'm playing it. Have something like 10-15 hours but i think i don't get it yet. I have been playing Metroidvanias since SOTN and Super Metroid and loved Soulsborne games too (HK gets many elements fron those) but for some reason this haven't hooked me up.

Still gonna try it though. The gameplay is ok and music/atmosphere is very well done but some cunts say it like this is the best metroidvania ever made. Come on.

>no proper discovery of the map. you need to buy it otherwise you are stuck on limbo
>sense of getting lost forced because you don't have proper map discovery again
>meh powerups or lackluster ones (shot proyectiles and consume soul... dafuq)

Anyone who hurt Myla deserves to be shot.

you haven't taken the blackpill

My only real gripe with HK was that it felt like there was a lot of backtracking, especially as a first timer going in blind

>Like a sonic game

What did user mean by this?

its fucking gorgeous dude. not to mention the soundtrack is increible as well

>Why does this exploration focused game make me explore?

>DUDE EXPLORE LMAO
This is the only defense of the HK fanboy. I see you people say this shit to every single person who doesn't like the map system, or the size of the map, or any of that shit. Stop this. You're worse than the "git gud" crowd.

Shit taste. This game is godly

>make literally 10 steps into a new land
>hear uhm uhm uhm uhm
>look around
>it's fucking Cornifer
>buy map
>?????
>PROFIT!

how is this an issue

you can finish the game in 20hrs

>WHY DON'T THEY JUST TELL ME WHERE EVERYTHING IS RIGHT AWAY?!?!?!?!

>filler

can you make an example of filler in HK?

can you define filler?

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There are areas accessible early on which bar you from reaching him until you get a certain upgrade. There are also just areas where he's far more hidden than others, namely Deepnest. Meaning you now have to find your way out without a map, which may land you in a new area you still don't have a map for, and all of this progress ends up meaningless because 2D games are inherently more difficult to remember how to find your way around in and you're not likely to remember any of the area's layout on a return trip. You'll also almost certainly not find any meaningful items or upgrades.

You bumble around in the dark for 20 minutes, find your way out, and then just have to resume the game as if nothing happened, unless you're lucky enough to just pick the correct direction right off the bat out of a list of equally viable paths to take.

Seething.

Yes, i gave up on it twice before actually enjoying it

How the fuck do you beat Cornifer anyway, he fights like a big dumb bug but his missus is fucking LETHAL

am i playing the game wrong?

i can't facetank bosses

Thread ended there

>There are areas accessible early on which bar you from reaching him until you get a certain upgrade.
if you're talking about fog canyon it takes literally, LITERALLY, 30 seconds to move through it to queen's station and then you are in fungal wastes
>There are also just areas where he's far more hidden than others, namely Deepnest.
he is 5 feet from the mantis lords.

How do I beat NKG without sharp shadow?

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The game literally tell you through mechanics that exploration is key. When Metroid Fusion first came out, common criticism was that it “held your hand” for pinging the map with a new heading. HK gives you options with the map system.
>map discovery
Literally the same as other metroidvanias, except when you can’t get a map for an area it’s a sure sign that you’re not supposed to be there yet.

If the game were more linear, the complaint would be it’s too linear.
>best metriodvania
I’m inclined to agree. Better boss fights, movement, ability progression, consistent art direction, music that fits the tone (don’t get me started on every castlevania main theme being a complete clash for castle exploration, even if the tracks are bangin)

>muh "no mulitplayer"

do you wanna know how i know you are a idiot that cant judge quality even if it rapes your ass?

You've ignored the most important part. The part where all paths are presented as equally viable.

You can fuck around in Fog Canyon far longer than 30 seconds, because there are plenty of doors open to you that aren't obviously wrong. They ARE wrong, but the game lets you waste time regardless and gain nothing except maybe some money.
Yes, Cornifer is close to the Mantis Lords, but he doesn't sing and is hiding in a corner. He's INTENTIONALLY being hidden to further the atmosphere of the area. So again, the path to him looks exactly as viable as the path away from him, yet the path to him is far more valuable.

The game's map and map system punish the player for doing nothing wrong and gives them no reward for just happening to pick a path they weren't supposed to yet, two problems that are far less prevalent in even the most basic bitch metroidvanias.
Saying "dude just explore lmao" completely ignores the fact that exploration is ALWAYS supposed to be rewarding, even if only with some basic shit like a missile pack in Metroid, because getting nothing but a handful of change is fucking lame and boring and it could've been acquired anywhere else in the game.

Slower.

Perfection.

>second playthrough
>killed by hive knight (no shade cloak yet.)
>run back to body
>explore a bit on the way to find closer bench
>killed by bees

Fuck. The other game I've been playing is DD, I should have remembered to REMIND MYSELF!
Well that's the first time that's happened at least. I cleared out the stores and did the Basin statue so mostly just need the last nail upgrade and the perm charms so nbd. Still hurts.

If its exploration focused why the map doesn't get progressively discovered when i walk or explore and it's mandatory to buy it? That's the main issue that keeps me from trying and playing more desu. Love how you can get lost on some areas but if its forced isn't good.

And please give me an answer of a person with a +100 IQ user.

>The part where all paths are presented as equally viable.
except they clearly aren't, I'm sorry user.

There are numerous side rooms in fog canyon, but they are almost immediately blocked off by things that need: mantis claws, shadow cloak, resistance to acid, etc. Each one of these rooms is telling you to fuck off until later, the path is clearly shuttling you down further, and very soon you find a stag station.

>So again, the path to him looks exactly as viable as the path away from him, yet the path to him is far more valuable.
Again, the paths are NOT presented as equally viable. Ignoring Cornifer presents you with an uninterrupted maze of hard to kill enemies in a very dark area. the path to cornifer has no enemies and is barely off the path.

exploration doesn't necessarily have to mean map focused. I know it's a meme, but there's no map in Dark Souls, and exploration is huge part of that game.

This

I love pretty much everything about this game except for the boss fights.
I probably just need to get good, but I still think the variety in the type of boss fights can be a bit of a two edged sword. On one hand it keeps things nice, fresh and surprising, but you also get subjected some kinda bs moves that feel very hard to predict (at least for the first attempt or two) before you finally learn to just memorize the entire boss fight. Could also be that the difficulty curve also feels a bit uneven compared to a lot of other games. You practically never need to die exploring, but then you proceed to get your butthole ravaged for 30 minutes by some dickhead boss.

You just don't get what I mean by "equally viable"

Seeing a pool of acid doesn't tell me "I should leave this area," it tells me "maybe there's acid resistance in this area"
Seeing enemies in front of me doesn't tell me "this is a bad place to be," it tells me "there's probably something valuable hidden in here"
These are all equally valid ways of viewing the situation which the game's design doesn't discourage, especially considering every one of you nerdlingers goes "g-git gud just beat hard things and you'll be rewarded"

The game is not guiding me to where I should go, it's just giving me two paths which anyone could argue between which is the correct one, then only when I reach the end is it clear whether or not I was right

Exploration is way easier on 3D games so i don't think thats a valid argument user. The problem is that i reach one area, don't have the map. Explore a little more and end up in a new area without the map. Rinse and repeat. I feel lost on the game but in a forced way.

Game is close to be an awesome Metroidvania, maybe one of the best on recent years, but the map system SUCKS HARD.

You dont buy the full area map, you buy a small portion of it. The rest of the area gets filled in as you explore, but those new areas aren't added until you rest at a bench. The maps are cheap and easy to get to usually. I don't see what the issue is.

Why'd anyone post after this

So you're upset about exploring in an exploration-focused game. Gotcha.

have you never played a metroidvania before?
>Seeing a pool of acid doesn't tell me "I should leave this area," it tells me "maybe there's acid resistance in this area"
this is a classic metroidvania gameplay mechanic. are you saying that if you see a green door in Super Metroid that your first reaction is that a way to open it is in the room? That seeing a tall wall means the high jump boots are close by? These things are in metroidvanias to gate off areas until you have powerups, and you are supposed to keep a mental log of where these things are. That is a basic premise of the genre.

>Seeing enemies in front of me doesn't tell me "this is a bad place to be," it tells me "there's probably something valuable hidden in here"
this is even more shocking desu. in video games, stumbling into a higher level area is a common thing that is quickly found out when the enemies are far stronger than you are accustomed to. it is a clear sign that maybe you shouldn't be there quite yet.

>The game is not guiding me to where I should go, it's just giving me two paths which anyone could argue between which is the correct one, then only when I reach the end is it clear whether or not I was right
God forbid a game makes you make decisions and doesn't shove you exactly where you need to go. Again, other than metroid fusion, this is a staple of the genre.

Please. Read

>It's not a valid argument because I say so

Keep a running mental map? Go back and finish exploring the areas you do have maps for? It sounds like you just dont enjoy this genre.

>Exploration is way easier on 3D games so i don't think thats a valid argument user.
?
you are adding an entire degree of freedom with three dimensions. If anything exploration in 3D is much harder

That's a very poor argument.

This so much.

>Seeing a pool of acid doesn't tell me "I should leave this area," it tells me "maybe there's acid resistance in this area"

this is a classic metroidvania gameplay mechanic. are you saying that if you see a green door in Super Metroid that your first reaction is that a way to open it is in the room? That seeing a tall wall means the high jump boots are close by? These things are in metroidvanias to gate off areas until you have powerups, and you are supposed to keep a mental log of where these things are. That is a basic premise of the genre.

I don't understand why can't we have a proper discussion without a 'git gud' and "muh hk is perfect mvania'

>have you never played a metroidvania before?
Well first, playing other games in a genre is not a prerequisite to playing this game. Games are supposed to teach you things about themselves, you know.
>if you see a green door in Super Metroid that your first reaction is that a way to open it is in the room?
You get the basic missiles very, very quickly after seeing your first red door. It's absolutely not some concrete rule that you NEVER get a powerup soon after discovering its use. Getting acid resistance in the acid area is not unreasonable, especially considering you actually do find acid resistance in an area with acid. Just a different one.
>it is a clear sign that maybe you shouldn't be there quite yet
It's also a clear sign that there's good shit in there that you might want, and that overcoming that challenge early on should reward you for your efforts, which Hollow Knight often does not.
Beside the fact that City of Tears has the giant knights, some of the more dangerous basic enemies in the game, and it's one of the earliest areas you're meant to explore and branches out into the rest of the game.
>doesn't shove you exactly where you need to go
Subtle conveyance =/= handholding, don't be an elitist. Deepnest actually does do a good job of letting you know you shouldn't be there early and I like it as an area, I think it's a place they INTEND for you to fall into and have to stumble your way out of. I just don't think you gain anywhere near enough for rising to the challenge.

Not that guy, but going from Ori (which is arguably just as good) that had an automap to Hollow Knight's pay and rest systems was pretty jarring - but moreso the latter 'rest at a bench to save your map', because most previous Metroidvanias would just update your map as you explored, with optional map rooms to fill in anywhere you hadn't gone yet.

My point is there was no 'saving map progress' mechanic until HK, and personally I found it manageable but somewhat frustrating.

>then only when I reach the end is it clear whether or not I was right
This is stupid as fuck. One of the commendable design points of HK is that they made sure to avoid getting the players to choose a dead-end by putting most of the "locking gates" at branching paths. Which means any path you choose to go with will lead you to discover something new or get some kind of reward, even if you're not able to complete all of the area the first time you're there.

You're complaining that instead of getting your hand held for the entire game, it gives you freedom of choice to decide for yourself where you want to go, and they managed to do this without locking players into place for most of the huge map.
You literally don't like actual exploration, and are complaining that a game about exploration encourages you to explore by leaving you alone.

when you get the teleport skill so basically when you finish it.

Ori is real bad.

The vast majority of 3D games absolutely do not give you more freedom of directional movement, precisely because it's more confusing. How many 3D games do you know of where multiple levels of elevation are accessed just by jumping once or twice?
Souls games don't let you gain height by jumping and they tend to keep rooms small enough to see almost the entire thing at once.
There are literally screens in Hollow Knight where, standing at the center of them, the only thing you'll see around you is a bunch of copy-pasted platforms that give no indication of where they lead. That's much harder to navigate than a simple 3D room.

See Salt & Sanctuary for a far, far more Souls-inspired 2D Metroidvania which gets completely fucked by having no map.

Why should the paths both be viable? If you want all your choices to be met with the same brain dead "good job!" you should really go try Anthem

Just because you personally struggle to comprehend signs of where and when to traverse areas does not mean that's objectively the case.
Anyone can make a personal argument that they struggled with anything. You were given examples and your retort was
>Well, I don't think like that

I think what posted sums up my biggest problem with HK. I'm not hating the game, just some details make the game a meh metroidvania (a great platformer souls inspired)

Come on. I love metroidvania games. Axiom Verge, Ori, Momora, Cave Story, Steamworld Dig.. all those games get the genre like it should be with some flaws.

>You literally don't like actual exploration
Ah yes, I forgot the part where I'm told what games I do and do not like. All the time I spent wandering around the overworld of Shadow of the Colossus, just for the fun of seeing it even though there was almost no concrete reward, actually didn't happen. I'm just some buh buh retard who needs to g-git gud, that's it.

>w-why don't I have an auto-map?
>what!? the game actually wants me to explore for myself!?
Not this bullshit again.

SPBP

But many 2d rooms are more quickly traversed than 3d and you can more clearly see everything. I may need to check behind objects and around corners in a room in souls.

I think you're responding to the wrong user. I am arguing AGAINST the point of both paths being equally viable in that post.

Nice opinion, maybe back it up with something more substantial.

Fair enough. Tastes will differ. I personally enjoy HKs map system but I can understand why you don't.

never, it's solidly average all the way through
the eternal last resort for fanatics without any arguments

>I'm just some buh buh retard who needs to g-git gud
Who said anything about skill, cunt. You've been half a thread complaining that the game doesn't tell you were to go every step and actually lets that decision to you alone like that's something negative.
If you want a constant minimap with an arrow and several checkpoints go play a sandbox.
You're also crying about the map not having an auto-fill handholding feature. In terms of discovery and sense of wonder, making the map only fill at a save-point is probably one of the best decisions I've ever seen in a metroidvania. It makes exploring new areas much more interesting.

The ability of a person who's not brain damaged to think a certain way about something is always relevant to game design, dumdum. If I, as a reasonable person, think "hard enemies" means "big reward," then that's equally as valid as you thinking it means "stay away." The devs can choose whichever of the two they want to design around, but optimally, they'd do something that accomodates both.

Games present an experience which is interpreted subjectively no matter how the fuck it's made (just like everything that exists does). Accounting for, or at least acknowledging, a lot of those possible experiences is important, you chucklehead.

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i can understand
>samey environments
>unfocused world design
>random mystical lore connected by lorefags through conjecture to scrap together a story

that said it's still impressive they managed the put out so much content at the level they did

where the hell does one get the map for the area just above Ancient Basin? Can't find that shit. And i don't know what to do now, The Last abilities I got were Crystal heart and decending dark. I think i need the double jump next, but there are som many places that i could have missed.

>Games are supposed to teach you things about themselves, you know.
It does. Fog canyon clearly teaches you there is a bunch of shit you don't have yet, so you should come back later. You can exhaust every side door, but there is no way to progress.
>It's absolutely not some concrete rule that you NEVER get a powerup soon after discovering its use.
No, you're right. But there's a pretty good chance that the power up isn't nearby, which again you can check rather quickly and not find anything.
>It's also a clear sign that there's good shit in there that you might want,
I think we won't progress much on this point as we have very different opinions.
>I just don't think you gain anywhere near enough for rising to the challenge.
you gain killing a Dreamer, one of the necessary keys to the final boss. that's a pretty big fucking reward

royal waterways? Cornifer is far to the left near the entrance to fungal wastes

Right, and when you see gaming journalists playing Cuphead and Doom how seriously do you take their inability to comprehend parts of the games as a sign that they need to be altered. Any game can be broken down into a near indefinite number of interpretations and how many of them are taken seriously?
When it's your interpretation, it's easy to say it should matter purely because you're a player as well, but what about all of the others?

So are you autists going to keep on making these worthless HK generals for the next 16 months? There's nothing to discuss about this game that hasn't been discussed a million times already.

Look for a place to use crystal heart in ancient basin

>Well first, playing other games in a genre is not a prerequisite to playing this game. Games are supposed to teach you things about themselves, you know.

I'm actually sick of this assumption that there should always be literally ZERO burden of knowledge on the player. It's like if you want to get into a 2D Fighter and complain that the big new game in the genre dosnt freeze the fucking game at launch to explain the deep reasoning behind using QCF motions. At some point the game has to be like fuck you play me

here's your (you), fren.
oh, and also:

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>Every thread on Yea Forums

this game is fucking drag when you're trying to look for the next location you can now access.

Objectively wrong, there are threads that shit on recently released games instead of shitting on 2 year old indies.

The game just came out on switch, the red gonna be a whole new wave of people discovering the game.

endlessly repeating it doesn't magically turn it into an argument friendo, i completed the game so clearly i got gud

Epic

>There are areas accessible early on which bar you from reaching him until you get a certain upgrade
>areas
Don't be disingenuous, it's only one time in the entire game and at that point the area is so locked that only acts as a shortcut corridor towards a fast travel station.
>he's easy to miss in Deepnest
That's the point retard, you think they didn't do that on purpose?
>2D games are inherently more difficult to remember how to find your way around in and you're not likely to remember any of the area's layout on a return trip
Talk for yourself.

>You'll also almost certainly not find any meaningful items or upgrades
Ok, this one is just a straight up lie. Every area and zone you can access always has something for you to find even if you're too early for some of its the secondary paths. I remember being impressed that they managed to make such a big metroidvania almost free of any "progression lock".
>You bumble around in the dark for 20 minutes, find your way out, and then just have to resume the game as if nothing happened
If you didn't find what you were supposed to encounter in an area that's your fault, not the game's.

>punish the player for doing nothing wrong and gives them no reward for just happening to pick a path they weren't supposed to yet
Again, this is something that barely happens in this game. You're supporting your argument with a false pretense.

It improves eventually. It goes from a 6/10 to a 7/10 and you're left wondering why the fuck is this little game so overrated.

That's why I said "as a reasonable person" lol. Retarded Journo #500 failing to read a piece of text in the background that says "YOU HAVE TO JUMP OVER THIS" can be ignored. But I'm not a retarded neanderthal who couldn't beat the first boss of Hollow Knight. I finished the game. I just don't like how little it tries to incentivize risktaking in exploration as compared to just turning around and going home when you, eventually, find out an area is for the lategame.

2D fighters are also infamous for being incredibly inaccessible and we've seen the radical decline of fighting game popularity on a casual level because the only people left to play them are the ones who've been playing them for forever.
Skullgirls having an excellent tutorial that teaches the basics of fighting games doesn't make it handholdy baby garbage and there's no reason every fighting game can't just take two seconds in an optional tutorial to teach you what a quarter circle is.

I didn't understand basic fighting game terminology until Skullgirls taught it to me, because no other fighting game actually gives a shit to try. Maybe come up with a better example, chief.

Claiming an insult is an argument is the last ditch of shameless tourists.
Please go back.

This is the first time here tha i can have a proper discussion about anything. Thanks user.

yes yes user you're very edgy but your favourite game isn't very good

The game is so easy though

I don't think it is royal waterways, because i got there from somewhere else I think. The place I mention is between resting place and ancient basin. It's a very long vertical descent with a lot of spikes and you get to a place with those giant golden cillinder like things for transportation i guess. I would take a picture, but i'm not home.
Still, thanks anons, I will try when I get home from work. Spent hours last night trying to figure out where to go. And every place gave me something kind of optional. Once you get desolate dive and are able to get to the crystal mines a fuckton of places open up very fast.

Stop you're just rubbing it in now

>It's a very long vertical descent with a lot of spikes and you get to a place with those giant golden cillinder like things for transportation i guess. I would take a picture, but i'm not home.
kingdom's edge? he's closer to city of tears, in a hidden alcove on the left wall

Which made it funnier

grow up kiddo

You are talking about the failed elevator shaft. It's technically a part of City of Tears, you should have had that map for a long time already. Have you been to the city before or have you first entered it from Resting Grounds?

it doesn't. it's a shitty meme 2d platformer.

>explore
>map is immensely bloated and places are not visually distinct at times regardless of map
>minor upgrades are doled out so slowly that exploration feels unrewarding

Pop in any other Metroidvania and go off the beaten track and you get upgrades and equipment. Play HK and go off the beaten track and you get $20 and 1/10th of a reward.

NO ITS A HARDCORE GAME FOR HARDCORE GAMERS IF YOU DONT LIKE IT YOU MUST BE A SHITTER GIT GUD GIT GUD GIT GUD

I think this is it

Yes I have been to city of tears, like a million times because of the vendors and because it connected to Soul sanctum, and the boss in that place killed me a good seven times. I have the map for ancient basin, but not for that part above so i guess i missed the place the twenty times i went there.

The sense of wonder this game gives is amazing by the way.

>overcoming that challenge early on should reward you for your efforts, which Hollow Knight often does not
Literally the Mantis Lords. You even have a character telling you that you're to early to the challenge, but you can still do them in for the reward. Then you have Deepnest and early lantern Crystal Peak too.
After the Mantis Village the game becomes so open to the player that it doesn't make sense to talk about "early" challenge anymore tho, it's literally 100% up to the person to pick where he wants to go from the choices available, and that's fantastic.
>Subtle conveyance =/= handholding
No, you're literally asking for eliminating one of the best things of the gameplay.
If this was a grid map like a lot of metroidvanias, then yes, having the map fill automatically as you advance it's practically a necessity.
On a map that you can easily recognize each room represented, it's actually great they took advantage of this to have the player go into the areas truly blind, with zero handholding and only having themselves for finding their way to the next save point.
It's way exploration in this game is so great: it entirely rests on the player's shoulders, no external help.

>I just don't think you gain anywhere near enough for rising to the challenge
From early Deepnest? Oh, just the access to the only true sequence break in the game for a pretty unique run, early access to several late game areas, and early access to the Dream Nail without having to farm for the lantern.
Fucking please now.

Hornet's frilly panties.

>they'd do something that accomodates both
That's the thing, they did.
Almost every choice you can take to explore will get you something, no matter how early.
What you say about constantly "finishing" an area or path and coming out with nothing is just not true.

>it's literally 100% up to the person to pick where he wants to go from the choices available, and that's fantastic
Well, the game does allow you to explore quite a bit. Then you find roadblocks fucking everywhere requiring some specific power-up that's located god knows where, wasting your time magnificently.

>reasonable person
You may think that. I have no reason to agree

>you find roadblocks fucking everywhere requiring some specific power-up that's located god knows where, wasting your time magnificently.
Look dude, Metroidvanias just aren't for you.
Play something else.

>Yes I have been to city of tears
You don't have the map of the city though, do you? Just to clarify, that connection doesn't have it's own map, you map it manually if you have the map of City of Tears and a quill.

>Then you find roadblocks fucking everywhere requiring some specific power-up that's located god knows where, wasting your time magnificently
Why the fuck do you insist with this blatant lie?
The road-blocks are always at branching paths, which means while some shit may be blocked, there's always something waiting at the end of the path you chose and barely any dead-ends in the game.
You're complaining about something that HK as a metroidvania actually managed to have under control.

WHERE??

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The only boss that deserves to be facetanked is Hornet rematch. Give the other bosses some respect.

They are, this one I didn't particularly like though.

I remember quite a few roadblocks requiring the ground stomp move and that horizontal fly move, specifically. I did plenty of exploring and that often turned out rewarding me with unimportant shit like the move tutors with new combat gimmicks, or finding the arena with some extra challenge and shit.

so you want the full map to be open for you by default just so you can "explore" more? what do you want, no roadblocks? The roadblocks are small deviations compared to the paths you can explore anytime. It's pretty cool when you find an item or ability that lets you overcome those roadblocks. What would be the point with no roadblocks, apart from the fact that you'll get overwhelmed if there where none. That's kind of the fun in metroidvanias. sounds more like you hate the genre.

After you get the wall jump and air dash.

>unimportant shit like the move tutors with new combat gimmicks
oh, so we have been arguing with a literal fucking retard this whole time, got it

I lost 15k in the Lifeblood core last night. It hurts.
Then I realized the trials pay you out every time you complete them. You can make about 4k every ten minutes if you're good at the second trial. Third trial gives you 3k but takes about ten minutes to complete.

>I remember quite a few roadblocks requiring the ground stomp move and that horizontal fly move, specifically
Yes, ON BRANCHING, SECONDARY PATHS ON THE SIDE you retarded disingenuous fuck.
At no point game locked you from continuing exploring an area with a ground stomp and you had to come back on your feet.
The point is that THERE IS ALWAYS something to get of the path you choose to explore, and they tried as hard to put the locked gates on the side of your path so you could keep going and get something out of your exploration.

>I didn't like the rewards
Well, that's completely irrelevant. The rewards still exist.

game runs like complete shit imho. I'd rather burn my gpu and cpu un a game like it looks like it should run like that. I'l replay a castlevania game If I want a metroidvania fix .

No need to feel that threatened because someone didn't appreciate your overrated "masterpiece" as much as you did.

Look, this game just has the potential to be a massive time waster when you just wanna continue the story. I wanted just that and kept finding optional shit like the move tutors and the arena instead and that wasn't fun.

There are multiple jumps inside the village that requires dash i believe.
Might be able to glitch it with spirit like the greenpath skip, but i cant do it.

Always stand about two nail swing widths from the side of the arena. He will always teleport to the same points when doing his dash attacks so you won't need to worry about "what side is he going to be on" and instead will only need to worry about muscle memorizing the exact way to jump to dodge them. His other three attacks, fire bats, fire pillars, and spikes are slow and telegraphed so you can always dodge those. His 75,50,25% attack is the exact same and easy to dodge. Once you get good at dodging everything you learn when you can deliver charge swings against him. Hit him like 50 times and you win. Also don't ever both trying to heal except when he does his split.

Metroidvanias and Hub based open world games (but not sandbox) give the best balance between open endness and linearity. Fuck that sandbox, walk for ten minutes in this gigantic empty map, bullshit that open world games are now.

>No need to feel that threatened because someone didn't appreciate your overrated "masterpiece" as much as you did.
what a complete lack of reading comprehension. Saying that the combat moves given by the tutors are a waste of time and shit shows how retarded you are.

>"the game locks me and makes me waste time"
>this is something the game actually avoided because most of the gates were put at branching paths
>"I remember quite a few roadblocks requiring the ground stomp"
>one ground stomp on the Crystal Peak entrance, doesn't stop you from keep exploring the rest of the Crossroads
>one literally at the side of the Fungal Wastes entrance, doesn't stop you from continuing your path an entering a new area
>one ground pound to get out of the City's gate, doesn't stop you from continuing your path
>it's literally always like this
Are you fucking retarded?

So is this what you're going to fall back now?
That you don't like side content? And you literally want an arrow pointing you which path progress the plot?
You do understand this would completely kill the exploration the game offers, right?

I mean, you keep insisting that it's not like that, but every single new thing you say further proves that you just don't personally like exploration as a game mechanic.

When you click the Play button.

After you get the dash and Climbing abilities. Then like 95% of the game is open to you

So first the game has to many roadblocks that don't let you explore, and now the game has to many optional roads and you just want the main one? Pick one my friend because you're changing your arguments every now and then and you can't argue both.

>complete full auto-map with arrows from the get go
>no roadblocks that can't get unlocked from the area you find them
He literally wants a walking simulator.

Equip Shape of Unn and Grubsong. Other charms are unimportant, use whatever you want.

>Bats
Jump over the first ones, Shade Cloak through the later ones, then hit him. Alternatively, Shape of Unn shrinks your hurtbox so the bats won’t hit you.
>Flame pillars
Heal with Shape of Unn, or attack him.
>Dive
Jump. Don’t even bother trying to attack him, just avoid getting hit.
>Uppercut
Dash away, then Shade Cloak through the falling flames.
>Cloak spikes
Heal.
>Pufferfish
Stay in the corner, do very light jumps over the fireballs at ground level. Don’t dash or double jump, it will mess up your rhythm.

There, now you can beat him.

Having to face 40 piss easy bosses to have the honor of dying to Markoth/PV/AR is CANCER, FUCK THIS STUPID ASS PANTHEON

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>I wanted just that and kept finding optional shit
>"I hate that I have to find the thing I want to find for myself instead of the game/map telling me where it is"
It doesn't matter how hard you want to keep denying it, you just said out loud you don't like exploring.

>defending the game allowing you to totally ignore boss patterns and just mash attack during a boss fight
For what purpose?

just dont do it

he won't have true gamer street cred if he doesn't do it

>Beats soul master
>Spit on his corpse
>Gets to Royal Water ways
>Oh hi a cool looking worm thing, Kills it
>AHHHHHH WHAT THE FUCK
This game is scary

Once you turn it off and play one of the hundreds of better indie games

I thought I wouldn't even bother after dying to PV so many times. I said fuck it and quit playing for a few months. I started again last week and just the fifth pantheon yesterday. I even beat Ascended PV. It can be done.
I think the main difference was playing on my PC with the DS4 this time instead of on my Switch with the pieces of shit known as joycons.

These answers don't make sense and are posted thousands of times. They aren't clever. You could just say "It doesn't get good. Play something else instead" and you wouldn't come off as a faggot trying to be clever.

Funny thing is I didnt even get to Crystal peak with the stomp. I saved up and bought a Firefly

I didn't do it but it kind of irks me because it's the only stuff left to do besides 100% steel soul (which I'm not gonna do either)

yeah i know because im in the same boat but i wont get any joy out of it

Genuinely interested, up to which point the facetanking strat works in the game?
I never even tried the Stalwart charm.

>what is board culture

No. It's impossible to get into Fungal Wastes, you can't get there through Queen's Station, nor through Crossroads without Dash. If you could get there, you could make it to the Claw by jumping into the acid of the first Mantis Village room and then bounce off your Shade.

d grafics
>>no multiplayer
>talking like the kind of guy who likes how all AAA games are all the same now a days.
I think you might be the zoomer here bub.

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The entire way through. The only bosses you can't facetank are the ones who do two masks of damage, i.e. Traitor Lord and Radiance. But as Team Cherry said, Charms are supposed to be the "easy mode" of Hollow Knight anyways.

Op BTFO

>But as Team Cherry said, Charms are supposed to be the "easy mode" of Hollow Knight anyways
sauce?

>he doesn't know about the bug that fixes signs
>he doesn't know about the tower of love's secret room
>he doesn't know about the mantis lords lifeblood room
he doesn't know about the backer room

You can pogo on your shade or a mushroom spore to get to the higher entrance

holy shit that faggot itt who doesn't like exploration pretending to know what he's talking about, i got a headache after reading all his bullshit. luckily he seems to be gone.

>you can't get there through Queen's Station
False. You jump from the top platform, turn around and use Vengeful Spirit twice to push you forward.

Ah, forgot about that.

Wait, where did the guy with the shield go? I've met him in the arena and then completely lost track of him. Did he die somewhere?

But I do to all of those.

>in the arena
Well, there's only 2 places people go after the Colosseum. Either they live and go back to being a walking Void balloon or they die and are flung into the Kingdom's Edge below.

Search around Kingdom's Edge. You can also fight him in the boss rush arena.

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After the arena, you can meet him below, I think he's waiting on some of the cliffs of Kingdom's Edge.
Go talk with him, it's worth it. I found that piece of lore pretty interesting.

literally the only place I would call filler is the ancient basin.

What did Godseeker mean by this?

Tiso is a cool guy. I'm glad they finally gave him a boss fight.

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>The abyss, the broken vessel and the lost kin are filler
>Also the entry point to white palace
????

What Metroidvania will offer me a similarly challenging endgame?

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Literally none of them, because metroidvanias aren't about combat. Play Furi or something.

Meh, I kinda agree with him. While there are points of interest, the area overall feels very empty and unnecessarily large. There are like 3 enemy types there. Abyss is also really fucking lame when you get past the initial impression, but I guess that's because its stretch goal wasn't funded.

A boss rush that lasts forever and wants to make you kill yourself? None.
A super hard metroidvania that destroys your anus and requires loads of autism to complete? An untitled story on hardest difficoulty (master iirc, there is also another mode that reduces your HP to 1 for the entire game)

This is one of the hardest bosses to radiant IMO, the part where his shield flies all over the screen is so hard to avoid and sometimes you don't have enough soul to i-frame dodge it with descending dark

>An untitled story
I can confirm. Untitled Story can be nut-busting hard at times and a tad obtuse which adds just the right flavor to it.

Yes that's the whole shtick of metroidvanias. Backtracking when you unlock new things to get to places you couldn't before. If there is no backtracking it's not a metroidvania, it's a standard linear game.

Mist canyon would be a way better example then.

That's nothing. Wait til he packs out pic related in Phase 3.

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Right after you click "Start Game"

>judging a game by it's looks

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Stand in the middle of the arena. Where he appears after his teleport will telegraph his attack, but it takes some getting used to.
>Far away on the ground
It's bats
>Close on the ground
dash into shoryuken
>Far away in the air
fire pillars
>Close in the air
Dive kick dash

These can have some variations, like hell dash away when you not sure how close he is on the ground and use the fireballs. Once you know that it's just getting your reactions down in time.

>heard all this hype about how amazing hollow knight's DLCs are
>start Grimm Troupe
>"ah yeah run around the map you've already filled out fighting the same few enemies over and over and then you get a couple cool boss fights"

wow... based aussies...

Imagine paying for games lmao

I fucking love this game

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REEE i wanna graphics like my generic AAA

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I think when people say the Grimm Troupe is good they just remember the Grimm boss fights and not the shitty fetch quest

Until you have the dash and walljump, you're in the tutorial

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> Royal Waterways is the most fun area in the base game
Nice meme.

>wandering around the overworld of Shadow of the Colossus, just for the fun of seeing it even though there was almost no concrete reward
this just sounds wrong and makes me autistically concerned

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>Boss rush is peak fun

Dark souls ruined a generation

I love everything about Hollow Knight except the gameplay itself and its such a god damn shame because it makes the game a chore.

Royal Waterways is where that decline starts.

Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to give the Collector Primal Aspids? They literally took a meme and turned it into an obnoxious bossfight.

>I like game except when I have to play it

Classic Yea Forums

Do you have that in non-thumbnail sized?

Holy shit the Knight get in the car!

>Art design
>Level design
>Sound design
>Environmental design
>Atmosphere
>Music
>Story
Are all excellent, they just forgot to focus on the one thing that separates a game from any other piece of visual media

I'd say it is good and fun from the get go. But Dash is usually where the game takes up the pace.

No they didn't. The movement and combat in Hollow Knight is tight once you get used to the acceleration of the jump. Better than stuff like Ori for me, which gets praised for its platforming all the time. Are you playing Controller or Keyboard btw?

GET GUH

Kek sounds like my Ex.
Told her many times it isn't for her but "oh gosh it looks so pretty" then she whined she didn't know what to do and nobody gave her quests and she never touched it again.

What a dumb bitch. She's probably fucking black guys now.

The movement is great, any game that can transition from normal platforming to a Super Meat Boy-esque death run has some merit, I guess I meant the combat, the knockback on a connected hit make it feel sluggish, I would elaborate more but I'm phone posting from a cooler at my job

she'll hurt more if you let her live

I've heard this complaint a few times. There's a single notch charm that nullifies knockback and is available the moment you get the dash. I think it's a crutch and really don't mind the knockback, but if it bothers you so much that's the solution.

What happens to the infected bugs after the moth dies?

Well, most of them go back to being dead, since they were dead before - such is a husk.
The ones that were alive, who knows? Maybe they die, maybe they don't.

If you were old enough to play PC games in the early Ought's even as a teenager, you're a boomer.

game is good
but secretly.... i dont actually think that............lol...........

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So, I think I fucked up by no paying attention because I don't know what to do next, as in, I have different options

>fight against the dream version of the different bosses
>already got the three dreamers, this opened the black egg on forgotten crossroads, right? Should I go there?
>got the black dash which allows me to go through those black streams, should I visit those areas?

Are they separated parts of the game of are related? Need advice bois

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Go to Black Egg Temple, beat that, then go through the black streams. Also, visit the Seer and get her rewards for collecting essence.

Thanks. I constantly go to the seer. I think I need 1500 for the next one. Anyway, I'll do the mission for the White Moth to deliver a flower to the grave in Green Gardens and then go to the Black Egg.

I just have another question, what's with the yellow infection at forgotten crossroads? Is there something I should do know our is simply part of the plot?

>dream bosses
there’s three, @ false knight, broken vessel and soul master. theyre pretty damn tough but this gives you a dickload of essence each. two more were added with hidden dreams, @dung defender and zote (if you saved him in green path and fought in the colloseum)
>black egg temple
final boss, but if you complete a few semi-obtuse chores you’ll get a special surprise FUCK MOTHS
>black streams
that i remember, they lead to a dream warrior @ kingdom’s edge, a boss and lots of lore @queens garden, and something else in deepnest and fog canyon

All will be revealed in time. You can piece it together yourself eventually, especially if you read the Hunter journal entries. If you can't, the Seer will straight up tell you the plot of the game at 2400 essence. You only need 1800 to complete the game in earnest though.

the orange pus in the crossroads happens when you
>kill any one of the three dreamers
or
>defeat broken vessel and get the double jump wings
its simply to show that the kiddy gloves are off and you should feel trepidation for whats to come next

Also, use Desolate Dive/Descending Dark directly under the platform in the Dung Defender's room. I feel like this is not spoiler territory, because it's literally impossible to figure out on your own.

3 people don't have to worry about stockholders, listen to market researchers, or worry about public image. Quality is the price companies pay when they become greedy kikes.

And what is that thing? Since combat and movement are excellent in HK?

PUTD ME IN DE SGREENGAB:DD

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What the fuck?

"My friends... I will protect our dear Kingdom. Have faith in me!"
"We will all meet again. I promise it..."

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>indie retroshit roguelite
>soibois claiming it's atmospheric and has a good soundtrack

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>Got to and beat hornet without dying
Is this game this easy the whole time?

It is not Rogue lite. We know you haven’t looked at it. Fuck off.

I've looked at it enough to know you literal faggots probably enjoy Undertale and Cuphead.

Do I have to fight EVERY boss in the game before I can do the pantheon thingies to get another ending?

You don't have to fight God Tamer, the Hollow Knight, or the Radiance beforehand; you can banish Grimm and still fight him in the boss rush; and you can kill leave Zote to die to avoid his boss entirely. But otherwise, yes.

>not going directly to deepnest afterwards

Is it worth overcharming for the Radiant Godhome challenges since they seem to end in one hit anyway? I've never played them before as I only played the game when it first came out and iv'e just finished a second playthrough now with all the patches out. I was thinking of using Unbreakable Strength alongside my other charms, but it will overcharm.

Yes, there's no downside in Radiant battles

No

Came here for this. Leaving now.

No. Hornet is not a hard boss, it's mystifying to me how many people fail to beat her and then give up on the game. None of the main storyline bosses required for the base ending are particularly hard.

I'm enjoying the game and my girlfriend is too, feels so comfy playing together on rainy days. More games like this?

>42 min
>just beat Hornet
Have I still a chance for speedrun 2?

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Kill yourself faggot, even if it's b8.

L I T E R A L L Y babbies first metroidvania

Somehow manages to have less personality, enemy design, difficulty and atmosphere than a fucking SNES game. If you're one of those redditors with a massive hard on for this game I beg you go and play Super Metroid and see what this bland piece of shit could have been.

Honestly, can anyone here make the case that this game even tries to hold a candle to the old masters?

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>difficulty
Post All Bindings PoH time plx.

>Entire games enemies are 90% run at you meatbags
>Floating 3 knight wide platforms the entire game
>Some of the dlc bosses are hard
>Path of pain exists
>This means Hollow Knight is hard

based fucking retard

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The Dreamers want you to kill them.

>207 hours
How

By being an amateur. Non meme answer: It's a lot of fun to just go back to the Hall of Gods and punk on Radiant bosses with meme builds. Or doing Radiant bosses with no charms and nail only.

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>289 hours
>150000 geo
It's time to move on.

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Gotta start a file with no upgrades and go do that. I cant imagine Radiant NKG with base nail damage and possibly Shadow Cloak.

That's what my last file is for, yeah. NKG is easy, if tedious. Try Grey Prince Zote (or any boss that spawns minions), you'll literally go insane.

>he doesn't know about the mantis lords lifeblood room
Nani the fuck?
That would make my steel soul attempts far less stressful since i like to grab the tram pass from deepnest so i can grab the pale ore in the abyss, then go into hallownest through kingdoms edge because fuck front doors.

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When you get to the abyss and the story actually picks up.

It honestly never occured to me that his hat would be like that due to antenna or horns.
Neat.

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Godhome and doing other shit while the game is running. Also I'd like an answer, anyone?

Speedrun 2 is 5 hours, right? It really shouldn't take you 40 minutes to get to Hornet. Seeing how people can beat Radiance under 1.5 hours, you still have a shot, but not if you take that long for every area.

It's simple, but I wouldn't call it easy, the later stages require pretty tight execution. Its biggest problem is it wants to have a super simple battle system, but also a super high level of challenge, so it can only resort to one of
1) do this exact precise movement gauntlet with no room for error
2) here's a fight where the enemy does random shit and can box you in with no escape because the dash sucks, and you have no usable parry or block

Most of the fights in this game are worse than Ancient Dragon in DaS2.

>can box you in with no escape because the dash sucks
There's like one boss in the entire game that can do that.

Super Metroid is so fucking easy. I love both games for the record.

>Chance for speedrun 2.
Practically nil if it took you 40 mins to get to hornet.
You can beat her in roughly 20 even if you dont skip armored faggot or fail the spirit blast skip.

Here's a route i've been using on steel soul because i'm a masochist.

>Start
>Fallen fury charm
>Do a full circuit of crossroads to get geo caches / grubs.
>Rescue sly.
>Get geo charm for EZ money.
>Kill armored faggot, get spirit blast, get a fuck ton of geo from grub father.
>Make my way to hornet, killing all the mossknights for more geo.
>Abuse bench mechanics after getting dash cloak to go back to dirtmouth by quitting to menu.
>Use dash to drop down into fungal caverns from crossroads, grab fragile strength / health.
>Get charm notch from mushrooms just to the left.
>Mantis tango, loot the village.
>Get tram pass from deepnest after memorising those fucking tunnels.
>Get pale ore from abyss tramway.
>Yeet your way through hallownest's back door to relic hoarders followed by the blacksmith to upgrade your nail twice.
>Go up the lift from kings station to get into the resting grounds and the dream nail.
>Should have enough geo to get the lanturn, if not go fuck the soul master, then best shitbug, then jack his kings idol for more money.
>Go grab isma's tear.
>Jellyfish rave from crossroads
>Kill big jelly.
>If you havent got the fucking lanturn yet you're an idiot, but go kill herrah.
>Use the lanturn or dive to get into crystal peak for super dash.
>Go get double jump.
>Back to hallownest
>Die to watcher knights yet again because you're an idiot.
Do all that correctly and you've got about an hour at least left on the clock.

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The backer's drawing actually states that his head is horn shaped

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That drawing's cute.

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Heres how I did it, in about 4 hours total:
>Go to mantis village, get Claw and fight mantis
>City of tears and Desolete Dive
>You should have enough for the lantern
>Crystal peak and super dash
>Resting grounds
>Use the path to Fog canyon in the crossroads, using the super dash
>Use mark of pride to get to Watcher Knights without wings (practice the fight, if you can)
>Get herrah through the Mantis gate
>HK

Someone PLEASE give me suggestions on beating Grey Prince Zote in the Pantheon. His attacks are just way too hard to avoid.

>mfw i just noticed pure vessel "focuses" when he does his soul circle area attack

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>Use the path to Fog canyon in the crossroads, using the super dash
You can also get isma's tear if you're quick at Dung Defender, fog canyon get a lot easier

I haven't touched hollow knight since I beat it near launch. I wanna do all the dlc now. Do I need to go to certain areas to trigger it? Do I need to start a new game? How does it work in this game? Help a lost user plz

thanks user

google.com

Thank u so much user

>Grimm troupe
Somewhat hidden cave in howling cliffs, dream nail a big bug corpse in red clothes to start it.
>Dreams
Go back to particular bosses and you can dream nail them for round 2, you can raid bretta's basement after you get cucked.
Hidden area added to white palace, considered the ultimate platforming achievement in the game and the source of quite a few memes.
>Lifeblood
Prepare you anus for an actual fight with the traitor lord, they added a boss to the hive.
>Godmaster.
Breakable ceiling in the sewers, filled with maggot shit, progress to the end with a key and dreamnail the thing you unlock.
An additional key can be found east of the collisieum.

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Look for breakable walls in Howling Cliffs near the spot where Cornifer was. Look for breakable walls in the Colosseum of Fools. Look for breakable walls in the Royal Waterways.

Very much appreciated. Please enjoy some hornet.

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When you go left right after the game starts.