Why are you fuckers always pessimistic about new projects, right at the start...

why are you fuckers always pessimistic about new projects, right at the start, just to ruin the spirit and keep everyone at ground zero?

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Greatest metal album of all time

I've been let down too many times. It's easier to just dislike it from the start. If it turns out to be good, then the perceived gain is greater.

what game conveys this album cover?

you realize that it's still extremely counterproductive right?
also just because you've been letdown by your crush doesn't mean you're obliged to shittalk everything positive that's about to bloom.

bit trip runner

People really aren't like that in general
Only when it comes to shitty devs with a long and reliable track record of garbage games

Yeah, but we're talking about video games here. If I miss out on a good game because I have negative predispositions, all I have lost is wasted time.

because the sooner you realize there is literally no hope left, the sooner we can start this industry over

excitement and hope, then disappointment

talking about new shit, not devs with 10 yrs of reputation

Like what?

if you're "disappointed" right at the start, then there's NEVER anything great to come
>we
>start this industry over
not with this attitude

Plenty of people are excited for new games. A lot have just learned to see the red flags early.

It depends on on the game. Most new ip and games I'll cheer on and keep an eye on till release. Anything by the major western publishers I'm gonna be hella sceptical about cos I don't trust em.

Examples would easily be=I was hella sceptical bout anthem and crackdown 3. However I'm keeping an eye on Astral chains, sekiro and now samurai shodown.

not devs with 10 yrs of reputation

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WAY DOWN IN EGYPT IN THE VALLEY OF KA-HANGS

>If I miss out on a good game because I have negative predispositions, all I have lost is wasted time.
>thinking that playing a good game is wasted time
You've never played a good game then. A good game will influence the way you interpret everything. The metal gear solid series is criminal of this. MGS2's codex cutscenes made me question the whole plot line up to MGSV. It also had real world philosophical complications such as the way humans pass on information to future generations.

So you don't have any actual examples of what you're bitching about?

>not with this attitude
uh yeah? gaming is fucking terrible right now, it needs to experience another crash to shake things up and reintroduce some actual creativity

Because the person reading this post is a angry, lonely virgin

>if you're "disappointed" right at the start, then there's NEVER anything great to come
if you're still able to get excited about anything aside from one or two games a year then you haven't been paying attention to the gradual decline in quality and value gaming has gone through over the past decade

>we need to ruin things more
>let's not support anything great, for like years
this is the solution to everything!!!

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>we need to ruin things more
there's barely anything left to ruin, the videogame crash in the 80s lead to the greatest era in gaming
>let's not support anything great, for like years
there is nothing great to support i also didn't say it needed to take years

>not supporting independent creators who aren't shitty console devs
>wonders why there's a decline in quality

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based

>digital delivery allows devs to release half baked/unfinished shit they can just fix post launch
>back in the day games needed to be perfect at launch since there was no easy patching, else serious consequences
>it was harder to make games so teams were smaller and highly skilled pushing limits of hardware
>modern game design needs 4000 artists and bloat on shitty inefficient games
>large games are held down by Corporate's expectations
>good free2play games eventually lose sight of their original charm, and abandon their old playerbase since they don't spend $ anymore and cater to new players

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>counterproductive
good thing i'm not the producer
go work on your golden goose, you pillock, you don't need Yea Forums's support to start your day

>supporting devs not based on merit but on your girly feelings
cope

I've learned from my mistakes. Nowadays most exists just to extract money from you while getting little to nothing in return. I stopped believing any word from marketing campaigns because they always lie.
Better to ignore everything. If a game is good I will notice people talking about it, in which case it's a pleasant surprise. Otherwise I won't miss out on anything. Vidya is not important.

>haha dude vote with your wallet as 0.00000000001% of the market

Healthy skepticism is good for consumers.
Being able to put emotion aside and judge a product on desirable qualities is how you can indirectly decide what's good or bad for the industry. This doesn't just apply to video games but any industry that supplies products for consumers.

I wish we could tell companies how to run operate other than "voting with your wallet" but until certain companies realize their own consumers have the largest say in whether they live or die, money is the only language businesses understand.

the current market is literally possessed by demons
>there is nothing great to support
that's what I was talking about, missing optimism. you're not even into indie devs

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If you let Yea Forums ever influence any decision of yours, you're in the wrong

dood you can support ideas that are great independent from the dev
games do not need a trillion dollar budget
>0.00000000001%
is extremely inaccurate when it comes to how much you can contribute to good projects

>you're not even into indie devs
show me some truly "great" indies, i support plenty of studios by buying their product if it's good, divinity original sin 2 is a good example of a decent game by 2005 standards

I did not indent to imply that I do not enjoy any games. I have played many games that I would consider to be good or great. Games that have changed my expectations from other games, and how I perceive myself and the world around me. I do not, however, rely on video games to induce these changes in my personality/perception of life. I feel that I am complete, and do not wish to be further defined by the ideals proposed in video games.

Again it is easier to dislike, or at the very least be negatively skeptical towards, upcoming games.

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>support indie support inDIE SUPPORT INDIE REEEEEEEE AAAAAAA
this is not the way to get someone to support indie, user
this isn't even the way to make someone think about their pessimism
come back tomorrow with something more impactful than a greentext-off

because nothing good ever happens
why would anything good ever happen
everything is shit so why expect anything to be good

>good projects
yeah except in the past everything was a good project, that's my fucking point

by the way funding a WIP project is fucking retarded, you're literally buying a promise

I remember this cover looking slightly different, where it wasn’t clear what the head on the cover was, it was just a pitch black thing in the crude shape of a head. I think you can recreate it if you look at the screen at the right angle

Ideas don't turn into games on their own, you fucking retard.

most shitty indies are propped up by bigger shits, that way there's less quality on the surface and glowniggers ruin gaming for white males

Have you been alive since 2007 and looked around?

>doesn't do anything
>calls someone a tard for actually supporting new devs

just post your kicksharter and go, you're not going to convince people to support unfinished ideas in a general sense

yeah gaming oligopolies and disenfranchised people, good ideas, creative people but no support for THEM

because this board is awful even Yea Forums can enjoy marvel or dc shit sometimes.

Imagine getting you hopes up that things will turn better again and again in your life. Every single time you are struck down harder than before. It's the same here but for video games. If we can't justify hype for the games, we hype for the fall of shitty studios that led us to this situation.

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>keeps funding poorly thought out, tiny scope projects that will never be completely finished
and the status quo continues

you said exactly nothing in three different paragraphs
try being less of a faggot

I'm doing them a favor. I help keep their expectations down so they don't sperg out when the game turns out to be a big disappointment.

You can't be disappointed if your expectations are so low they can't be missed.

>paragraphs
look at this silly wiggums guys

are you here to make a point or are you just going to get in a pissing match with every reply that you deem uncharitable towards the nebulous idea of independent devs

like i genuinely have no idea why you decided "sometimes indies don't make it" was something to blame Yea Forums for

how about you stop supporting shitty old studios and start contributing to new good studios
not an argument

Its called being a realist shill

In my opinion, the following "recent" indie games would be considered great, largely in due to the obvious care their developers have for the games. A good, passionate developer can make an objectively shitty game into something great. In my experience, this kind of passion is only present in independent developers.
>Caves of Qud
>Hyper Light Drifter
>Risk of Rain
>Haven & Hearth
>Project Zomboid

>try being less like op
but i'm nothing like you

>doesn't know grammar
>"hihi how about I call him stupid first, so he can't do a nice rebuttal"

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You're a moron

yeah show the nerd lul

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>he's literally replying to every post to shill for faceless "indie" startups he will never name
op is a (You) tree and we're all picking him dry

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

This doesn't mean you should actively shit on everything you see, but there's no value in being excited over something that could just as likely come out as a worthless turd. Disregard everything and ignore the hype cycle and wait for a full release to form opinions from your own experiences. It boggles my fucking mind that normalfags still get caught in hype cycles like the impressionable animals they are.

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>implying pessimists aren't the actual shills

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Devil Daggers

passion is nice but a finished product that is also good is better, i'm not getting stringed along forever on the sentimentality that comes with the romantic view of game development

hyper lite drifter and project zomboid are both unfinished games and all of them are games with a tiny scope

i would gladly sacrifice all of these projects if we could revert back to the state of the industry as it was in 2003-5

>doubling down on calling a sentence a paragraph
you need to be 18 to post here

I don't and that's one of the things why I'm angry. The fact that my own actions have no effect makes me incredibly angry and extremely delighted to see the big corporations fall.

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but user there no distinct paragraphs anywhere to be found

we're all shills weather we like it or not
we just do it for free instead

>expects established companies to.do anything good
>dunno looks like a sentence durr

This, we are the suckers who do it for free.

not the sign for paragraphs, but actual paragraphs yes

>expects established companies to.do anything good
i never said, in fact im advocating for a crash precisely because that can never happen, indies will never be as good as old vidya aside for the flukes every now and then, AAA wont either

a crash is the only way

i wrote it, it was a sentence

I disagree, but understand your point. Most games that I have truly enjoyed have been unfinished, or in some form of active development. I value this dedication to the game higher than a finished end product. I do agree that it is easy for an indie developer to lose the player's trust, though, through shitty updates or abandonment.

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>hihi don't support anything great or you're an impressionable animal
>user, this guy fucks

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>"Supporting" consumer products
Have you considered, maybe, emptying your skull with a shotgun? These are products made by committees to sell to you. Brand loyalty and "supporting" a product is fucking pathetic.

>Most games that I have truly enjoyed have been unfinished, or in some form of active development.
so when did you start playing video games, it might be worth getting into emulation in that case

but yeah agree to disagree i guess

you're a faggot

Darkwood
Kenshi
Caves of Qud
Bastard Bonds

>Brand loyalty
>implying new products are tied to brands
how about looking in a mirror

>literally who?
>boring past the first map
>only good thing in the list, didn't ask for enough money to justify your shill thread or its use as an argument token in your shill thread
>lags to shit because loftar thinks caching the ssd on a live multiplayer game is a great idea
>zombies lmao what a unique idea worthy of funding

not an argument sweaty :^)

>Darkwood
very cool, this is one of those exceptions to the rule
>kenshi
seems cool, but also doesn't seem worth the price
>Caves of Qud
>Bastard Bonds
meh

regardless none of these are better than any of the good games from the 1996-2005 era

I'm not pessimistic. I'm skeptical.

honestly they're the same thing at this point

It's better to be pessimistic from the start and then to be pleasantly surprised by a new game, than to be hyped first only to be disappointed later. Or worse yet defend a shitty game you were hyped for.

this guy fucks

Have you considered that your mindset might be the problem and if you weren't determined to see the worst in everything then you'd have a range of wonderful games to enjoy?

Is this about Pokémon again? Fuck off, I've been burned one too many times by Gamefreak to give them the benefit of the doubt.

not him but that is clearly not the case. games are getting more dumbed down and more "cinematic". there are very few good games that don't condescend to the player being released. this is a provable and observable trend, not a matter of taste or perspective.

Legend of Grimrock 2

Clearly lots of people are enjoying them so it is, in fact, a matter of taste.

no no this would mean I'm not the supreme intellectual I envisioned myself to be. looking down on mental weaklings, making them cry and staring smugly at their childish tears. better than bukkake in my faggot ass

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you might be illiterate. just because people enjoy them doesn't mean they aren't aimed at the lowest common denominator or designed to have less demanding gameplay. that is the part that's objective.

no, objective truth exists and gaming now is worse than it used to be
ah yes and i suppose mcdonalds is fine cuisine

why are you so naive and gullible
why do you keep falling for marketing tricks and buying every pile of shit that comes out

>i disagree with a person
>better start projecting all sorts of inane bullshit onto them
good job not arguing anything you fucking cretin

>demands good gameplay
>still buys super gayrio gagging experience #2900 because so based
>"fuck indie devs"

it's shit

what the fuck are you getting at? i don't own a console and games like kenshi and darkwood are the only games i've bought in years.

u mad
it clearly isn't because there's no support for creative people, we just have to wait for the rupture, for god to crash the market. THEN we will have based 2004 games

you didn't argue anything on both counts

>implying the functional opposite of marketing tricks isn't demoralization tricks

what are you arguing for? that there will come a time when T-Rex returns to slay all the evil devs?

Name a single game that was shat on for absolutely no reason.

dont be coy user, i know you've been paying attention, otherwise you wouldn't be this mad and focused on projecting all sort of bullshit

>you might be illiterate.
No, you might just be a condescending cunt. Yes, you can definitely state that, objectively, games have gotten more cinematic. But to say that there are no good games being released is, by definition, a matter of taste. You're conflating these two things. Your taste is not objective.

>But to say that there are no good games being released is, by definition, a matter of taste.
He didn't say that at all. You are illiterate, he's right.

>no, objective truth exists and gaming now is worse than it used to be
Good thing we've found the answers to the great philosophical questions so you get to assert with certainty that your taste in video games is the correct one.

>But to say that there are no good games being released
no one said that. you're retarded.

quality is objective, taste is not otherwise we'd say mcdonalds is good food too and yes that analogy applies in this instance inb4 >food analogies

And FF7 was no exception

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>Good thing we've found the answers to the great philosophical questions so you get to assert with certainty that your taste in video games is the correct one.
you can keep being passive aggressive but you're still not arguing anything

Glad I'm not a retard like you.

>He didn't say that at all.
He literally said, and I quote,
>there are very few good games that don't condescend to the player being released.

And before you get on my arse about "that don't condescend," that's clearly also intended to be a value judgement here and not merely a statement of fact.

Your argument is asserting that objective truth exists and that you have it.

>quality is objective
Only in the sense that you can objectively determine a qualitative difference.

Holy shit you're actually retarded. "there are fewer good games being released" =/= "there are no good games being released". Get your head on straight user, you look like an absolute fucking moron right now.

yes and you didn't argue anything to the contrary, i also never outright claimed to be some "arbiter of objectivity" that's just passive aggressive hyperbole

>yfw you will never be this fucking stupid
what a relief

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and a qualitative difference, like the measure of the presence of bugs, or the feature completeness of a product

HOPE IS THE FIRST STEP ON THE ROAD TO DISAPPOINTMENT
DAWN OF WAR 3 WAS SO SHIT FUUUUUUUUCK

I agree, the difference is huge, legit Nigerian IQ poster. Saying there's none =/= Saying there next to none, only a truly braindead IMBECILE would confuse those two

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>"there are fewer good games being released" =/= "there are no good games being released".
Right, because that was the point of contention. Retard. Just because I was being slightly more hyperbolic than he was that doesn't detract from the actual point which you are ignoring, which is that he was fundamentally arguing about taste and not objective truth.

>yes and you didn't argue anything to the contrary
Okay, well, objective truth exists and *I* have it, and not you. So there.
> i also never outright claimed to be some "arbiter of objectivity" that's just passive aggressive hyperbole
I never outright claimed that you did, either.

>how about you stop supporting shitty old studios and start contributing to new good studios
Because they uncapped the amount of money people can give them and the real world wealth distribution is perverting 'vote with your wallet'.
They have more votes than you.

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why do you have hope for shitty studios to produce good games, instead of rooting for new or good studios? E(at)A(ss) is selling you garbage and you keep sucking their dicks

Google "crabs in a bucket".

>why are you fuckers always pessimistic about new projects
because of conditioning by the companies that make these so called "new projects".
once burned, twice shy.

but it wasnt just once.

i just dont understand the type of person that would defend modern gaming, we've gone from paying full price for a good, innovative videogames that pushed boundaries and included cosmetics as unlockables for extra gameplay through challenges to paying 60-130 for the an unfinished unoriginal game + cut content as dlc + microtransactions in the form of the aforementioned cosmetics + gambling crates

how the fuck could you ever argue gaming isn't shit nowadays, no the tiny indie scene doesnt offset what AAA is doing

Read "non-payers" as "non-players" at first.
Wouldn't put that way of thinking past mobage devs.

>big dolphin of a higher rank than a baleen whale
colloquial terminology is the epitome of retards dominating public consciousness.

stop supporting
>AAA
start supporting
>tiny indie scene
it's all we have goddamnit

>Okay, well, objective truth exists and *I* have it, and not you. So there.
very mature, objective truth exists in reason, you argue things and do research and then you find what makes most sense, if you can't argue something, it's not true
>I never outright claimed that you did, either.
yeah you only heavily insinuated it in a passive aggressive manner

at any rate im done bickering, have a nice day

I see, a supreme intellectual

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>Be positive and optimistic towards a new project
>It turns out good
>You're happy that you were right
>It turns out bad
>You're disappointed
>Be negative and pessimistic towards a new project
>It turns out good
>You're pleasantly surprised and have a game to play
>It turns out bad
>You have the ''I told you so moment!'' and you're pleased with yourself
it's a win-win

but indie's literally do the same thing when given the chance, the problem is consumer values, tripwire and overkill both went from being small indies supported through the purchase of dlc to including gambling crates

>very mature, objective truth exists in reason, you argue things and do research and then you find what makes most sense, if you can't argue something, it's not true
Oh, okay. So start arguing things.
>yeah you only heavily insinuated it in a passive aggressive manner
If I did perhaps it's because you heavily insinuated that you were some "arbiter of objectivity" :^)

Or we could just drop this argument about things that no one said ya dumb twat

Ever heard of pattern recognition?

except the second scenario rarely happens and what you're actually doing is poisoning the well with your grim stares

if the game is shit then it deserves to be scorned

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I recognize trannies and glowniggers itt, it's a lame pattern, isn't a fucking mandala

>Oh, okay. So start arguing things.
ok cool, gaming is shit because games have become homogenized, buggy, microtransaction filled platforms for monetization that are comparatively much lower value than the games from the past
>If I did perhaps it's because you heavily insinuated that you were some "arbiter of objectivity" :^)
show me where

i tried to be civil user, there's no reason for you to be such a pedantic cunt

yeah but you're scorning unborn children, not grown men

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When you see patterns everywhere that aren't really there it's called schizophrenia

A video game is a product made by a corporation, not a gift given by a friend. You need to sell it to me first, working your way up from zero interest. Many initial trailers are designed to build hype rather than show off game itself, which often dips into negative interest. I've been around too long to believe the marketing speak every time I hear it. I feel sorry for you if you're someone who is sold on a game just because of its brand name, regardless of the content of the game itself. That's a recipe for getting burned over and over again.

>t. Reikofag
if you weren't mentally ill you weren't gay

when you deny patterns that are visible everywhere it's called willful ignorance

Games aren't people, just like any product, if you know that people who work on said product failed to deliver in the past, they will most likely will not deliver now

the real answer.

>You need to sell it to me first, working your way up from zero interest.
So why do you buy dem shit AAApples
>I feel sorry for you if you're someone who is sold on a game just because of its brand name
gay

Incredible taste in music

>Games aren't people
Allegories aren't statements.

DONT TOUCH
NEVER EVER STEAL

>ok cool, gaming is shit because games have become homogenized, buggy, microtransaction filled platforms for monetization that are comparatively much lower value than the games from the past
Ah, see, now we have something to actually argue with rather than just "no, fuck you, I am objectively right". So, basically, the problem is lack of variety and innovation on the one hand, and predatory monetisation models on the other. And bugs, although I really don't think games are buggier now than they were in the past. But really, this only seems a problem if you're into AAA battle royale shooters to begin with.
>show me where
>i tried to be civil user, there's no reason for you to be such a pedantic cunt
Try harder.

this is what an actual idiot looks like

>Ah, see, now we have something to actually argue with rather than just "no, fuck you, I am objectively right". So, basically, the problem is lack of variety and innovation on the one hand, and predatory monetisation models on the other. And bugs, although I really don't think games are buggier now than they were in the past. But really, this only seems a problem if you're into AAA battle royale shooters to begin with.
no actually, this is a problem for everyone as gaming used to actually be good and im not content to accept that over half the industry is shit, i'd much rather see the entire thing blow if that means a return to more reasonable standards

your link doesn't show what you think it shows, i didn't insinuate or imply anything there, you were also the one the initiate uncivil discourse so you're the one that needs to try harder

>no actually, this is a problem for everyone as gaming used to actually be good
"Gaming" on the whole was never good. There were bad games then and there are bad games now, just as there were good games then and good game now.

>your link doesn't show what you think it shows, i didn't insinuate or imply anything there
You insinuate and imply just about as much as I ever have.
>you were also the one the initiate uncivil discourse
Because your bad faith merited it.

>you were also the one the initiate uncivil discourse
wrong
>you're the one that needs to try harder
no

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because le tortanic meme

>Try harder
Not him but you've been an asshole this entire time. You need to try harder, not him.

>"Gaming" on the whole was never good.
yes it was
>There were bad games then and there are bad games now, just as there were good games then and good game now.
sure there was a spectrum of quality but the baseline for quality was higher without a doubt

>You insinuate and imply just about as much as I ever have.
i dont think so all i did was say objective truth exists and what i think that objective truth is, no implication of my status of arbiter ever being made, on the other hand you passive aggressively projected all sorts of shit onto me in multiple posts

>Because your bad faith merited it.
moving the goalposts now are we

Sure, I can be a bigger asshole if I try. Much bigger, in fact.

wow that's epic you seem really cool

>on the other hand you passive aggressively projected all sorts of shit onto me in multiple posts
Fucking lol m8

I never did anything of the sort so this is highly ironic.

>moving the goalposts now are we
Well, you called me passive aggressive several times and accused me of saying things I didn't and called me immature, I only said to stop arguing about shit that no one had said like a dumb twat, so if you're the model of civility in this exchange, I guess I know what I prefer.