Mains engineer

>why isn't dane an entitled selfish child like me

I don't play anymore, haven't in years.
Does the pomson still have that dumbass uber/cloak drain?
Literally nobody liked that, even engineer players were ashamed of such an obvious engineer counter-counter effect.

I never said it was a bad thing though, you're just assuming that. Sorry you're retarded.

Short circuit is actually great now

don't act dumb

he's right though, there's no reason why OP couldn't be thinking of him as selfless, you just made that assumption because you're negative as fuck

>Buff the tanky aimbot with incredible DPS and the game's highest rate of healing

>he's bad because he's not biased towards his main

Attached: suicide.png (170x193, 58K)

>Get called out for being retarded
>N-No u
Every time
See

Stock engie is only slightly underpowered, he doesn't need much.

>Before Uncle Dane's video
>Wrangler? Nah it's fine what's the problem with it?
>Crits? Yeah they're annoying but who cares it's just a game

>After Uncle Dane Video

Uncle Dane Sheep: WRANGLER BAD, CRITS BAD

>Says the games needs more competitive mechanics
>All guns, maps, team composition have to cater to comp
>Even tho 99% of the players are there for casual
>Says the game is going to die otherwise
>While tf2 has been going strong for years without it
>But the competitive update almost killed it.
Yeah fuck this guy

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Retard

>>Before Uncle Dane's video
>>Wrangler? It's busted dude, needs a nerf.
>>Crits? Yeah they're annoying and they ruin the game.
>>After Uncle Dane Video
>Anti-Uncle Dane Sheep: WRANGLER GOOD, CRITS GOOD

him and his fucking fanbase begged valve to nerf the amby because they couldn't fucking dodge or not stand still, fuck him.

This, sixes are autistic and unfun.

FUCK B4NNY
FUCK UNCLE D*NE
AND FUCK PYRO MAINS

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>TF2tuber thread
God damn and I thought Quartering threads were dumb enough

Attached: D0KZsoKUUAAniLT.png orig.png (376x403, 174K)

someone should remake that pic into soldiers with unusuals or just sixes classes in general

I disagree with him on crits and agree with him on wrangler.
Sentries have 600DPS, 215HP, can be repaired for 105HP every 0.8s. Wrangler buffs them to something ludicrous like 600EHP. They already take enough effort to kill with an Uber, with Wrangler just equipping a secondary allows you to waste the whole Uber by yourself

Sentries shouldn't be an immovable, unbreakable roadblock like too many Engineer mains want them to be; they should exist as a tool to stop Scouts running past the enemy team and zerg rushing the objective without stopping to fight first. But they shouldn't be able to last long under sustained fire. That just slows down the game for no benefit.

>Fuck pyro mains
I agree with that to some extent, except the ones who embrace the w+m1 using phlog and jetpack to hunt snipers. hint: it's me I do that

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>hunt snipers
based, i'll let you do that next time i see a jetpack pyro
snipers can burn in hell for all i care

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>Wrangler? Nah it's fine what's the problem with it?
Horse shit. When 6s cleaned up the whitelist wrangler was one of the few weapons that was rebanned. It's fucking busted.

I'm never ditching my 200 ammo pistol

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There was only one good TF2uber and he's dead.

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I like using pistol with gunslinger, especially with Widowmaker too.

If you can't do well with stock engie you're bad at engineer

He's still pretty fun to watch

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>FUCK B4NNY
SEETHING FRIENDLY

Last I played was halloween, I was running around with a quickie bomb launcher and wee booties the whole time for shits and giggles. People still got unreasonably mad at me for using it.

>literal who has opinion
>Yea Forums cares about it
like pottery

>wrangler
>in 6s
let's make stalemating even worse

>people start defending the wrangler when dane makes a video on it
pottery

I know that's my point. It's overpowered.

Why don't we have an alternative PDA that takes the sentry away but halves the cost for dispensers and teleporters as a trade-off?

>make the shield a limited activation for 2-4 seconds after dealing x amount of damage like an uber
fixed

>kill engineer with wrangler out
>sentry becomes inactive for a couple of seconds
Wow that was hard.

dispensers and teleporters are already incredibly cheap though

I meant to say half the upgrade cost, sorry.

>maining in a solved game

Why? just play who ever you want, the meta won't be changing.

Attached: 101.png (892x962, 949K)

Of course it would be overpowered in a match where you have way less people to flank and kill the engineer

that seems like a weak tradeoff, there should be one that allows you to build two mini dispensers instead
youtube.com/watch?v=NduOwJd0TZo

>Weapons are only strong in competitive settings
Anticompfags are the dumbest part of the playerbase tied with F2P niggers.

Well any engineer will just upgrade their teleporter right outside their spawn and it takes no time even now so I doubt that would be useful
Dispenser could be useful for upgrading on a last push but completely getting rid of your sentry for that? I don't think that would be a balanced trade off, I certainly wouldnt use that PDA. If you want to get rid of the century maybe give engi a completely new type of utility/offensive build like mines or trip wires or something. just a thought

It's overpowered in pubs too as you can have multiple engineers. The only place it arguably isn't OP is in HL because of larger more coordinated teams and you can only have one engie.

What would be the point even, that sounds way too little a benefit

*sentry not century lmao

>Pistol is worthless
I've killed so many scouts and spies with it though

>faggots are still crying after the e-celebs that kickstarted their careers off the back of tf2
amazing, those dudes really played you lot like a fiddle lmao
>>>/reddit/

>This gun is too strong! Nerf it now!
>So that we can have a comp friendly environment!
Who cares if a gun is too strong or too weak if you are playing for fun? Only comp niggers care because my fee fee is hurt if someone kills me!

6's should not be how the game is balanced. Soldier and Scout are both broken classes in literally every regard yet no one cares because they're staple sixes classes.

>Who cares if a gun is too strong or too weak if you are playing for fun?
Yeah man because trying to push last point in a pub when there are 5 enginiggers turtling with the wrangler is so fun bro.

>Soldier and Scout are both broken classes
lmao just go heavy or build a mini sentry brainlet

>>So that we can have a comp friendly environment!
Nigger he never brings up comp in the entire video, his footage is 90% payload maps which aren't played in 6s. You don't have to be playing 6s to realize that pressing 2 to triple your sentry's health is unbalanced.

Of course you'll ignore the argument anyway because you're so far down your "us vs the compfags" mentality that you don't have the capacity to make your own opinions.

>The objective!
>My imaginary points!
Kill yourself retard

>5 enginiggers
>with wrangler
Send in spies and demomen with an uber

>tfw partyvan is dead and nobody wants to actually raid community servers
TF2 threads used to be fun, what happened?

>he thinks being able to kill jose.gonzalez with a sub-optimal weapon is an argument
fucking lol

Defend random crits. Why are they good for the game? Because [person I dislike] dislikes them is not a valid argument.

kill yourself nigger

I used to play TF2 really hardcore years ago and you brainlets are really still discussing the same shit? If after half a dozen years you still can't fucking counter the engineer, you just need to get better at the game desu.

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sentries are fine
the problem isnt that hes weak the problem is that hes a niche snowball class that can only operate if you give him like 90 seconds to sit around jerking off
and the gunslinger only addresses one aspect of that

he needs more like broad things he can do, more situations he can cover and choices to make
that jump pad/boost pad idea, mini dispenser, that old shield gen thing they scrapped, etc, his buildings are what define his class, not his fucking shotgun or wrench, i have no idea why theyve given him a a grand total of ONE unlock that changes them but he keeps getting dumb gimmick shit thats either worthless or just make his existing buildings a pain in the ass to deal with

>Bruh you don't have to balance the weapons if you don't actually play the game
That's pretty smart.

A single demoman can't take down 2 wrangled sentries if they're placed properly.

1.5 demomen can solve this problem, sometimes you can throw in a medic with uber there too.
Also where's video about how uber is OP? You are invulnerable and can wipe out entire teams sometimes.

>Jose Gonzales
*That annoying scout or spy who gets way to confident and has his shit pushed in by a totally viable weapon depending on the map the the rest of your load out
The butthurt it causes is amazing

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Coordinating multiple ubers while a spy simultaneously saps everything takes much more coordination and effort than just building a sentry and pressing 2. Dane made this point in the video.

>dude just throw the game lmao
>dude just let me win lmao

I dunno user, i'd be down to raid a Jailbreak or Ponyfag servers like the good ol days of Yea Forums TF2

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Because they're fun and that would be a huge nerf to medics and engies , also it makes sure you can't just reliably tank rockets and shotgun blasts in the face making every shot that much more dangerous and interesting

>see 5 enginiggers turtling with the wrangler
>Get butthurt because he can't win
If you don't see the absurdity of the situation and laugh your ass off YOU are not actually playing the game

>A single demoman can't take down 2 wrangled sentries if they're placed properly.
That's why you then counter with spies, demos, medics, and maybe a heavy to tank damage. It's called team fortress ffs

GLOWING HAT MAN BAD
RANDOM CRITS GOOD
COMPETITIVE FAGS = BTFO
>*gets one shot by some tryhard compfag playing soldier in pubs*

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>I only have fun when i win
Imagine being so pathetic you care who wins in a tf2 game

Partyvan died because it didnt get advertised, and 90% of the maps they'd play were garbage and not fun, and people would only play them to make people mad.

crits are useless against engie tho, they dont do extra damage to buildings

>nerf to medics and engies
great, let's get rid of random crits ASAP

It takes 6 stickies to blow up ONE wrangled sentry and all the engie has to do is shoot sentry rockets at them to push them away.
>Also where's video about how uber is OP?
Medic is the most OP class in the game but Dane isn't a medic main. If your team has a medic and the enemy team doesn't it is nearly impossible to lose.

>They STILL can't see the point
So what you're saying is, your team has to send spies, spend 30 seconds building ubercharge, and also send in a heavy while the engineers can just press 2. You're so dumb you don't even realize you're supporting my argument.

Compared to what exactly? It's like casually playing checkers or a game of basketball with random people at the park, sure it's fun to play but it's also fun to do well

If you don't care about winning then why do you care if the wrangler gets nerfed?

5 engineers wrangling is so fucking niche to begin with you need to knock enough heads to get them to even do that.

>need half a team to take down 2 niggers and their aimbots
>this is fun and also balanced

>while the engineers can just press 2
Oh no, the designated defensive support class has the edge in a defensive situation. The horror.

Don't forget that it was sparsely hosted and the threads rarely got bumped, then there was the problem of trannies and shit.

>wrangled sentry
Kill the fucking engineer
the
fucking
engineer

Don't pretend like every pub payload game doesn't end with engie spam on last.

>Need half a team to take out a sentry
Not if you're good topkek, sounds like someone had their shit pushed in by an engie recently

At this point I'm starting to think you might actually be retarded. Default engineer already has the advantage, and using the wrangler doesn't require skill whatsoever.

*stands behind aimbot with huge ass square hitbox that extends a foot beyond the model*
nothing personnel, faggot

Still have to wait three seconds before you can do anything to the gun and that's assuming the engie just stands perfectly still for you and doesn't use sentry knockback to keep you away or actively dodge.

>wrangled sentry
>aimbot
yikes and retardpilled

>just git gud lol
>the opinions of a plat engie main don't count tho

>Because they're fun
A subjective illusory term. There are people who think no crits are fun and there are also people who think random tripping in brawl are fun.

>be a huge nerf to medics and engies
Engie already gets guaranteed crits from his frontier justice and why in god's name should the medic, who is supposed to remain in the backline and support his team, be able to pull a one shot out of his ass when a scout or spy (who is a terrible class anyway) manages to reach the backline? Medic is the most overpowered class in the game, how on earth would an indirect nerf to ubersaw KO's hurt him too badly when what he brings to the table with his healing is absolutely necessary to win?

Wrangler literally has lockon

it still has fucking aim assist, you cumguzzler
you fags are so bad you can't be trusted to actually aim at something for once lmao

the game is already fun and interesting enough without rng bonus damage, zoomer

does that even matter? demo and soldier can just use splash damage. even pyro's fire pierces through. scout can just go around. that would only be a problem for heavies

>tf2 thread
>arguments
>theorycrafting
every time

Not like there's anything else to talk about because valve abandoned the game and every Yea Forums server dies because you fags only ever want to play shitty meme maps.

any of you people saying the stock pistol is horrible are retards who can't aim, it literally has higher dps than the shotgun if you have proper tracking, it does 45 damage per bullet before damage falloff range

that being said, wrangler is too good and needs to be nerfed, just a little bit though, maybe just decrease the damage resistance it gets from the shield

MYM sent TF2 to life support

Yeah I would like to play regular maps with Yea Forums too.

He's literally right about the Wrangler. I've shut down entire combos and more - talking 4 power classes and a medic - with this thing. It's underrated because no one knows how to use it, and it's OP as fuck when someone does know how to use it. I've literally always advocated removing the shield and maybe upping the damage dealt to 3x the damage when wrangled to melt pushes, but not make it impossible to kill to the sentry before that happens. Also, the idea of balancing that change out by making sentry jumping deal 0 self damage is a great idea.

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and he's completely right? he's a fucking retard but even a retard can see that the wrangler is bullshit overpowered

if team has 5 engis who can all wrangle sentries in all the right spots, I assure you - they can get 3 combat classes, 2 medics, and then you won't leave spawn until timer ends, because they already have what you don't - cooperation of comp level. And you can only properly fight cooperation with cooperation of your own. Which means it's comp issue, in which case it should be solved like demoman's insane dps - by limiting him strictly to one per team.

>every Yea Forums server dies because you fags only ever want to play shitty meme maps.
Fucking this, I would kill to play some regular maps with Yea Forums, but the cancer wacky balloon mario maps are the only ones that get set up.

>I assure you - they can get 3 combat classes, 2 medics, and then you won't leave spawn until timer ends
Then nerf the wrangler and nothing changes, the more skilled team still wins except they have to actually put some effort this time. The game is not all cooperation, it also needs skill.

>>kill engineer with wrangler out
The one partially obscured by his sentry spamming your location with 700dps?

ecelebs go in

Solved game isn't applicable to non strategy games. It's like calling soccer a solved game

>nerf the amby
proof?

It's a free-to-play game from 2007, I'm not sure why he's still trying to scrape the remnants of the mouldy forgotten community together into some sort of competitive format when that'd just alienate 90% of the remaining brazilian toaster players and kill it off for good
not to mention literally about 2 people work on this game once or twice a year
just move on

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>Uses the Cow Mangler
Easy

>Who cares if a gun is too strong or too weak if you are playing for fun?
So then why do YOU care if comp players want it nerfed? Answer that.

>using the wrangler doesn't require skill whatsoever.
Spoken like a true a moron, it's not about skill it's about balancing the game by giving players the option to create entrenchments. On top of that it's annoying as an engineer to be able to build a massive gun you can't manually fire. Really, you're being beyond autistic right now

Not really no

>Subjective illusory term
Sure , still fun and continuously removing the unique parts of tf2 would leave you will COD overtime, which is what you types ultimately want.
>Why isn't the game just CSGO with 12 classes it's unfair reeeee

>Medic is the most OP class in the game
You're retarded
>But engie has guaranteed crits already
I like how you ignored how much random crits make Evey shot muchorr threatening by introducing randomness into the equation, but as for that point: you're autistic. Just straight up autistic, who cares about if engineer can get crits from a non random source?

Because they’re trying to change house rules when they can make their own community server to make their own changes?

>move on
to what? tf2 is literally the only fun fps left

>rng bonus damage, zoomer
>rng
>zoomer
Topjej

>>Medic is the most OP class in the game
>You're retarded
Here's how I know you didn't fucking play TF2

>>Medic is the most OP class in the game
>You're retarded
I thought this was commonly accepted?
if your team doesn't have a medic and the other does, you're gonna lose

Nerfed wrangler would be useless because like we already figured out it's only useful side is lolshield and jumping ability. Giving it more damage is stupid too, because it solidifies uber requirement to take sentry down.
So we are looking at either rework, remaining what is, or useless tool to jump on gravel pits B.

>Spoken like a true a moron, it's not about skill it's about balancing the game by giving players the option to create entrenchments. On top of that it's annoying as an engineer to be able to build a massive gun you can't manually fire.
Nobody is complaining about the aiming aspect, it's the shield that breaks things. The short circuit already covers the defense secondary niche and does a much better job, there's no need to give the wrangler both defensive and offensive power on top of aim assist.

>>Medic is the most OP class in the game
>You're retarded

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>Soldier and Scout are both broken classes in literally every regard
Demo and arguably Sniper are just as good. Engineer/Heavy are better than them on defense. And Medic is more likely to make you win than any of them.

So Scout and Soldier aren't "broken". They're balanced on the game's largest tier. The real problem is that Pyro and Spy are shit.

Yeah, just back stab, sticky spam, snipe, or Uber charge his ass in coordination with your tean. Easy as that.

>Presented with actual arguments
>"hurr you're autistic autism haha autism"

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Have you realized yet you’re in a troll thread?

>>Medic is the most OP class in the game
>You're retarded
OH NO NO NO NO

>Nerfed wrangler would be useless
If Valve wasn't shit they would rework it, but we all know it's not gonna happen. A reasonable compromise would be removing the aim assist and making the shield ramp up instead of being instant, thus giving the opponent the ability to destroy it before it becomes a bigger threat.

If you are close to sentry you're doing it wrong
If you are far from sentry there's damage falloff and you can kill engineer with Sniper or scorch shot faggotry, if engineer is close to you there's less damage falloff, but you can kill engineer.
If sentry is obcured by an obstacle use it to your advantage. You can use stickies and pipes.
If sentry has no obstacles in its way then stop playing cp_orange.
If you can't manage to pick Spy and sap the sentry/Demo and spam stickies/Medic and give uber then you only have to blame yourself.

Sounds pretty based

Oh god, the eceleb reddit hivemind sure is in full fucking force today. No medic is not overpowered and you can bandwagon on your faggot forums about it all you want. Just like you do when you complain about the pyro being overpowered.

There aren't any OP classes in tf2 anymore, get over it

Point me to one (1) serious, competitive match with players of similar skill level where a team without a Medic has won.

user you might legit have autism. And the most overpowered class is Demo

>Actual arguments
No I was not, I was presented with the same autistic nitpicking bullshit that drive so many people away from TF2 to begin with. Holy fucking shit,
>It doesn't take skill to manually fire your sentry in middle of the chaos that is tf2 because you just press a button
That - is autism. Butthurt. Faggotry. There are many words to describe that sentiment

>medic is not overpowered
He's not overpowered, but it's like an ultimatum. Kill the medic asap or lose the fight. it's almost impossible to win a team fight when they have uber and medic up.

>r-reddit
Fucking leave, medic is an outright gamechanger unless he's a full-on retard.
The only class that could match him in being overpowered is demo and he takes somewhat more effort

>Healing elements are vital to a team therefore the class itself is overpowered
I'm loving the 0 logic that this has also
>>>>>Competitive
>>>>>Tf2
Wew lad, like I said the Reddit eceleb fags are in fucking full force today.

I like it better when autists, similar to yourself, argue over spy, sniper, and pyro being the most OP class

>moving the goalpost

>No I was not, I was presented with the same autistic nitpicking bullshit that drive so many people away from TF2 to begin with. Holy fucking shit,
Nobody was driven away from TF2 by anybody except maybe the massive influx of Bronies and hackers the Uber update brought along with the death of community servers. Also, the game is almost 12 years old. Things fall out of style. It's still an extremely popular game despite its age you massive faggot.

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I never used the wrangler because I thought it ruined the fun of playing engineer

you do know Ubercharge is a literal game changer in pubs and in comp right?
or are you just this retarded?

Oh I get it. You don’t like opinions that aren’t similar to yours. Demo is still the most OP and any nerfs that attempted to balance him got everyone SO assblasted that the nerf was reverted.

The only benefit to a partyvan server IS the meme maps. What's so special about playing with Yea Forums when 99% of you never talk in the chat and just play like bots?

With meme maps like Cyberpunk or Harbl Hotel at least we get an experience you can't find on any other TF2 server anymore today. You can play "normal" maps in casual literally 24/7.

There is a middle ground that I can concede though: slightly less meme maps and more "serious" maps that are good but you don't see anywhere else anymore, like Glacier or Cashworks or tc_meridian.

Sometimes it's a medic, sometimes it's a demo, sometimes it's a sniper. There are a lot of other scenarios where the medic is not going to be the most effective target m8. Is the healing class vital to an effective team? Sure, but in tf2 the classes are meant to be and each other out. Medics suck against spies , like a lot, which is why the ubersaw crit is kind of the only real counter to them beyond asking your team for help

>Engineer has to get himself out in the open to properly aim the thing
>Because the thing isn't in autopilot fighting a spread crowd becomes a nightmare
>Because the engineer has to focus on a single target he can get easily flanked
>Can get killed AND have his sentry disable by a mangler shot
>He LITERALLY says on the beginning of the video that all you have to do is focus the engie first, which is something most non brain dead players do anyways in response to the wrangler
I could at least sort of see where he was coming from with the random crits but this shit is ridiculous, is like he thinks the weapon got added a month ago or something

>there's damage falloff
Sentries only have falloff on rockets. Bullets always do the same damage.

>Because they’re trying to change house rules
But WHY do you CARE when you literally just said it doesn't affect anyone playing for fun as to whether a gun is strong or weak??

I think he's talking more about the defensive shield more than anything else

>Moving the goalposts
Not even a bit m8

>I-its still popular it's just those fucking bronies
Nope. It's the community in general that has always been the most autistic faggotry in gaming. Tf2 has the same level of fan as fucking undertale, thankfully it's a good game if your ignore whatever people claim to be the "community"

Am I going crazy or wasn’t there a thread like 10 hours ago where someone asked about the wrangler

IT'S FUCKING IMBA FOR COMP PLAY NERF IT RIGHT NOOOOOOOOOW.

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>he cant provide a single, one (1) example of medic not being a single most important class in the game

>uncle cuck
daily reminder

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First off I’m not the user you were talking to before as I suppose I should have signified
Second off, I care because %2 of the entire playerbase is trying to change things that either don’t need to be changed or they can’t make their own server to muck around in as stated.

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It's amusing for maybe an hour before you get bored because there's nothing to do. Cyberpunk is literally just a fucking hallway. I would play a workshop map server but all the mouthbreathers on Yea Forums would scream
>WHENS MARIOKART

You arent even trolling anymore, this is actually so stupid it's giving me the sadbrain.

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I NEED A FUCKING REVOLVER TO YEEEHAW WITH

Let me guess
Balanced for pub play and having spies and snipers full time but bad for 6’s

Are you sure about that?

The defensive shield doesn't really matter all that much once the engineer gets killed

based
FUCK REDDIT
FUCK UNCLE DANE

wow user there sure is NO WAY ubercharging a 1000 HP sentry won't end badly for your team which has to waste dozens of clips on the sentry and put the medics undivided attention on one teammate all the while the enemy team has the medic free and everybody else shooting you at the same time while you're focused on the sentry
nope

>Luck is the Engineer's most powerful tool
Based casual retard

>Medic isn't the most OP class in the game
Guess where you are on this graph

Attached: Dunning Kruger Chart.jpg (639x470, 27K)

Expert obviously

me on the left

Me in the middle

The only retard is you for not knowing what he was actually talking about

Go after the engineer first, he either dies or runs away which will lead to either the sentry being unwrangled or it's damage and aim highly diminished

The dunning kruger effect suffers from the dunning kruger effect

>>Healing elements are vital to a team therefore the class itself is overpowered
Yes. Here's the logic a child could grasp you are failing to understand
>Game balance is the process of making choices for the player equally strong, so they have freedom of choice
>If one choice is much better than the majority of other content, it's overpowered
>Medic's immense healing makes him a must-have if you want to win, eliminating freedom of choice
>Ergo Medic is overpowered.

>healing elements are vital to a team
For argument's sake if Medic didn't have Uber, overheal and only healed for 1hp/s obviously nobody would pick him. It's the AMOUNT of healing he can do, not just the fact that he is a healer, that makes him a must pick. At the end of the day healing is nothing special, it's just negative DPS. And Medic has enough HPS to wipe out three player's worth of mid-range DPS.

Nice bait nigger

>Expecting me to keep up on all of Uncle Dane's shit
I thought he was just another contrarian/scrub defending random crits

even if the engie dies the sentry still has the shield on for 4 seconds and you HAVE TO focus on it or it'll kill your team
even if you kill the sentry you're at an insane disadvantage because all your clips are empty and you just used uber and gained nothing from it

>>Engineer has to get himself out in the open to properly aim the thing
Not really

>Defending random crits
If this were true there wouldn’t be threads like this popping up

me on the left but im not confident

The wrangler is balanced around presenting yourself to spies

And it's because of people like you that there are so many retarded posts in these threads.

Daily reminder Dane is right about everything and the only people who disagree are shitters who want TF2 to be a dice roll simulator because they can't get kills otherwise.

Only time a medic is not being the most effective target is when he's dead or when you're trying to counter area denial.
Killing the medic is still a major advantage since you deny the team mobile healing and thus their ability to sustain.

>that either don’t need to be changed
They want it changed and if it doesn't affect you why do you give a fuck? And it benefits pubs from the exploit tier behaviour of five engies with each having a 600ehp wrangled level 3 no longer being a thing. The only time I ever see wrangler being picked in pubs is for fun jumps (unrelated to the shield) or being used to slow down an already slow game

>important
>barely people uses it on pubs or medicfags that usually are women that even properly play the game

In what fucking game mode have there ever been 5 engineers each with their wrangler out at the same time? You’re either citing a very specific personal incident or speaking out of straight hyperbole

Engie spam is common on payload.

>pubs
>an indicator of how good or bad a class is
guess spy is the best class because a weeb topscored with him once

But in theoretical situation #356 there are 12 wrangler engineers standing is a circle with their sentries covering 360/12 = 30 degrees each and every engineer can check his own area for spies with no effort. Reminder that you are alone in this situation, what can a single spy do in this situation? Nothing! Therefore we can conclude that the wrangler is over powered and needs to be nerfed.

And ubered demospam/a decent spy can take care of that spam. All it takes is one distraction to crumble a whole defense

I get your general point but Cyberpunk is a poor example because we always play "who can hold the disco room the longest", or at least did the last time I was on there. And yeah, people would want Mario kart, this my point, the drawcard of partyvan is playing maps that have died elsewhere.

But more maps with a real objective in the rotation is definitely a good idea, so long as they're not stock or commonly available elsewhere.

I don't believe I have to be loyal to one side or the other. I'm simply wanting a balanced game

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I mean if there’s a Pybro that’s a bit of different story but the wrangler serverly limits your counter play to spies though

>he thinks results dont speak for themselves

Maybe if all the sentries are lined up right next to each other.

Again I agree, yet engineer spam can always be countered by an Uber or 2.

Not really balanced for pub play either. It countersnipes almost as well as a dedicated Sniper with the unlimited range rockets and chainguns, and Spies are always a joke

And not every engineer uses the wrangler

If we’re talking pub payload that’s almost a certainty.

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>A spy can't simply stab the engie and then sap the sentry while he and his team pay attention/run away from the uber
>A demo/soldier can't possibly get the sentry, the engie and maybe some of his teammates while ubered
>A sniper can't get the engie and allow the rest of the team to handle the sentry/enemy team
There are probably more solutions to this problem

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You need to eat a bag of shit.

Epic dude, while we're at it i'd like to say that you'll never see me involved in any other competitive tf2 related events again!

Dane is wrong about crits and right about wrangler

Gracias, doctor.

>barely people uses it on pubs
People don't use medic because it's fucking boring, not because it's not OP.
Every time I play against a team with a medic, our team gets their shit pushed in unless we have a medic of our own or it's too late for the medic to change the game

>3x the damage when wrangled
>getting hit with rockets at x3 damage

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Probably because most players don't realize what it actually does. If it said it doubles sentry firing speed and triples its health in the description I guarantee you every engie would be using it.

Depends on the map. Badwater/upward engies tend to not be nearly as stupid. Only reason why pubs are bearable is that engie players tend to be morons.

People don’t like to use it because getting backstabbed in pubs and watching your sentry die right after you build it fucking sucks

>mfw engies are worried about the Wrangler getting nerfed, taking attention away from his TRUE power, the gunslinger

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Not ALL of them with Wrangler out but I've definitely ran into multiple occasions where there were 4+ Engies and 2+ using Wrangler. And that shouldn't exist at all. Every time it's just unmitigated cancer. after a certain point it's not even fun for the Engineers anymore

put me a little to the left of center

yeah yeah
thanks doc

I actually want to see the gunslinger get buffed at the cost of its knockback

Hey you, yeah yeah you
You're handsome

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Class stacking with anyone is cancer in TF2 though

>In what fucking game mode have there ever been 5 engineers each with their wrangler out at the same time?
Are you denying that it's literally possible for it to happen in the game?
Hell, all it takes is ten minutes of coordination in a steam group and you could easily get 12 Engies on a Payload defensive side with 12 level 3 Wrangled Sentries, creating an unbreakable defense for 0 fucking skill required.

Engineer is by far the worst stacked class.

The wrangler does less DPS and if your engineer is top score it simply means your team is stacked and the other team would have lost regardless.

>Mains a class in a game that receives no attention from its own company
>From a company that doesn't care or even attempt to make real video games anymore
>Asking for changes in 2019

I'm sure all of this is ironic. No one can be that dense, right?

Demo stacking are pretty fucking obnoxious if they’re good

Gunslinger is way more balanced than wrangler is.

>he doesn't make epic tf2 videos anymore so he's reddit now and i hate him nyeh
autism

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What's the problem with mini-sentries? They only ever give me problems when I'm playing Scout because the Engy will always be there to trybto finish the job. The other assault classes btfo Gunslinger Engies

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yeah, not as bad a stacked spies

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If your engineer is top scoring then he has a nice teleporter.

this, top scoring with engie is like top scoring with medic.

Soldier spam will counter demo spam as long as you're not on dustbowl or somethin

They're not that good other than the fact they make it infuriating to play scout in pubs.

>it does 45 damage per bullet before damage falloff range
it does 45 damage on crit you retard

Will never happen in valve pubs

Which is easily negated by a decent spy sapping and shooting. A pro engineer in a good spot idles by the exit tele, instantly desapping and healing a teleporter, but if your team doesn't help that thing is going down. Then what happens if a competent ubered demo walks into a nest of 4 engies with wranglers and short circuits while a spy simultaneously mass saps? Only your team's competence can counter the enemy's competence. Engineer alone cannot negate actual skill. If engineer is top score then enemy team would have lost whether you were engie or not since they clearly weren't coordinated enough to handle it in the first place.

Dane is an F2P brainlet similar to Funke. They never played TF2 in it's hayday and just source their experience AFTER, TF2 had gone to shit.

Their opinions not only don't matter but are super shit. Plus both are comp fags and you see what happened with that.

You get a few Short Circuits + a Pyro for backup and you can sort a room full of demobois throwing their little balls around, but 12 level 3s watching every entrance to a choke from spaced locations with their bullshit simultaneous knockback needs more coordination.

>oh no they’ve only been playing the game for ~7 years what newfags
Look I hate Uncle Dane but the Uber update happened a long time ago and the game has changed since then

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Yeah, it's gotten objectively worse since the Uber update.

He did another TF2 video on Swiftwater and that was nice. Not him btw

To be honest,the issue was the shitty state in which they ship the update than the update itself.

I've been playing TF2 since 09, have 7k hours, I've never been in any comp team, and I still agree with them.

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Oh, stacked spies are bad alright.

Literally no one can argue against the fact that MYM was the shittest update to TF2.

>Engineers won't defend this
Explain yourselves

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Pistol, corners.

truly based

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Not even engies like them

No it fucking was.
Competitive is mega gay regardless but why in the ever loving fuck did they destroy quickplay? TF2 didn’t literally die but that update has done more damage than basically all other updates combined.

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Because it added casual matchmaking that nobody asked for.

>Pistol
Easily repaired or he just slaps down another
>Corners
Requires engie to put it in a bad position

Nice digits

The Soldier class was the one that needed to be nerfed. I remember when I played how dumb it was. Guy moved faster than everyone, could fucking fly, his self damage made him a better pocket for medic. He had no clear weaknesses. His self-damage mechanic didn't fucking matter since being faster gave him access to health kits faster than everyone. He was the best or second best in every category without any counter. And they kept giving him more options with the direct hit and these other unlocks. The second any class caught a whiff of the shit the Soldier had, they were nerfed. I stopped playing the game once I realized they balanced the game around suited Soldiers best and no other class.

It was an obvious jab at overwatch.

yes it does you tard

Learn2play scout and heavy

Balance and the level of bugs have sure improved. The playerbase size too, unless you actually liked having 9000 peak players prior to the Uber update.

My favourite part of TF2 was being able to enter a match, play whatever and leave whenever. I used to shit on quickplay for destroying custom servers with their retarded rule about opting into being allowed into quickplay but when they killed quickplay in favour of their retarded matchmaking system is when they killed TF2 for me.

Snipers and pyros can also be a pain in the ass when they are half decent as well

>Balance
By nerfing everything that used to be OP into the ground. There are fewer viable loadouts than ever.

>direct hit
No fucking serious soldier uses that shit, splash damage is too good

A lot of engineer's unlocks are really bullshit imo.

Scout was my most played class. Mostly caught they left it alone. Used to play pyro until they kept messing around with the class too much because of Soldiers complaining.

Soldier "has no counter" because he also counters nobody.
He's the second worst in the category of ground speed, he can only go fast by spending HP; his DPS is average, his main attack output is slow easy to dodge projectiles which reload slowly with a small clip (4 compared to Scout's 6 and Demo's 8).
Play the game for at least 1000 hours and you'll realize that Scout consistently shits on Soldier in 1v1s, especially if you go Gunboats. Add to that the fact that Scout is better at capturing objectives faster too, and Soldier's only advantages over Scout are his short term mobility and fighting crowds.

Medic is a better class, and Scout, Demo and Sniper are equally as good as him. Stock Soldier is very balanced, the only things about him that need nerfing are Escape Plan and Disciplinary Action.

Hey user you aren't supposed to point that out. This echo chamber says soldier is broken and needs to be nerfed and if you disagree you're a soldier main.

isn't that what you 'ded gaem" faggots wanted? for the game to get "unbloated" and return to stock-only?

friendly reminder to grab a sign of your waifu
it gives you the strength to be the fraggin dragon

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>By nerfing everything that used to be OP into the ground
Better than having it overshadow stock and making the game P2W, though.
>There are fewer viable loadouts than ever
No, in many cases nerfing the OP shit has opened up a variety of choices ie: Demoman/Scout melees have a very wide variety of viable choice now

Also I'm more talking overall class balance, eg Spy and Pyro are much better now than they were at release, Demo is much more balanced now, Engie and Heavy have more offensive options while being less defensively gamebreaking

No I wanted them to be fun viable sidegrades. Not my fault valve was too lazy to properly rework them.

>Better than having it overshadow stock and making the game P2W
I don't disagree I'm just bored of using the same weapons every game.

>Demoman/scout melees
I've never seen a reason to swap off stock and boston basher.

More demo melees are more suited for demoknight anyway

What is he complaining about now?

I bet you exclusively play jump and pub servers with the kill streak australium rocket launcher,, gunboats, and righteous bison equipped

Did they at least fix rtv before it died?

Personally I miss with BB a lot because I panic, and I don't play comp outside lobbies so I don't use it for building much. So I swap between candy cane, sandman, wrap assassin, atomizer, stock reskins, it's great. I used to just always use Atomizer or Sandman. The variety on offer now is quite pleasant.

>gunboats, and righteous bison
drooling nobrain wojack.jpg

Fuck, I meant the team captain

And what if I do? Why would you want me, a person playing soldier and probably a tryhard, to also be randomly be able to one-shot your entire team?

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TF2 was always fun and people who wanted to play seriously did custom servers with blacklisted weapons
Now I can't even fucking kamikaze with the caber or get rewarded for my skill with the sandman from across the map and if my team is losing it means I can't mess around because my joke weapons are fucking awful and do nothing so I just immediately die so I have to switch to tryhard soldier or heavy just to win.

Candy cane is still trash because you die if a soldier so much as looks at you funny. Sandman stun is so weak now it's not worth the health penalty and the slow effect can be negated anyway. Atomizer is just an inferior version of the winger. Wrap assassin is okay I guess?

because it means I also have the chance to one shot faggots like you at random

Tryhard soldier getting a random crit > you getting a random crit

Not when you play as the heavy, who has better random crits

>team has 3 spies
>no one is spy checking
>go pyro
>kill them over and over
>they play spy the whole game instead of changing class
>start bitching about pyro in chat
dude just change class lmao

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Can you cancel joining a game? I sometimes queue for random maps while I'm playing, then get really into the match I'm currently playing, and matchmaking finds me a new game and says "joining in ten seconds" and the only option is to accept.

As soon as you mentioned Caber and sandman everyone here stopped taking your post seriously.

i think when you switch off the wrangler the shield should also turn off, the gun would still not fire for 3 seconds but it wouldn't have a shield, if the shield is only on when wrangling the engineer can't heal his gun and if you kill him you can have an actual chance of taking out his gun. this keeps the shield but nerfs it's sponginess and rewards the enemy for targeting the engineer.

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>and the only option is to accept.
I'm pretty sure there's an X somewhere around the top of the screen

>sandman
>skill
yes getting stunned and slowed for a scout looking at you is good

Rescue Ranger didn't need the nerf, by the time you're pulling it out you're already fucked since you most likely used up all your metal anyway, it should be the last resort to trying to save your sentry and retreating while it defends you for those last precious seconds.

>by the time you're pulling it out you're already fucked since you most likely used up all your metal anyway
excuse me while I heal my sentry from long distances

>by the time you're pulling it out you're already fucked since you most likely used up all your metal anyway
what fucking engineer would use it for that and not have a dispenser near by

not if you're already in a game

>Rescue Ranger didn't need the nerf
More like Rescue Ranger never really needed long distance healing at all in addition to its sentry teleport. The nerf it got wasn't enough.

You faggots have a 215HP 600DPS AIMBOT that can be healed for 105hp every 0.8s, why do you insist on it being even more unkillable? The game has to continue.

soccer has alot of individual moving parts and variables. TF2 has the same variables reproducible ad infinitum. The game is solved.

If you have any game sense you can tell when your whole team is dead and the point is a lost cause, and you can zap your sentry out of there. Why would you pointlessly spam heal your sentry from a distance when you're going to lose the point and the sentry anyway?

>by the time you're pulling it out you're already fucked since you most likely used up all your metal anyway
And when you get to that point is when the original balancers of the game intended your Sentry to die, it's not meant to live forever

...

TF2 has alot of individual moving parts and variables

i used to hardly ever see the wrangler now im seeing it every game

thanks faggot

So if there's a problem with seeing it every game just maybe he had a point
Now we wait for valve to continue doing nothing

I think removing valve servers from the server browser did more fucking damage than casual matchmaking alone

>excuse me while my team has access to a beneficial dispenser, and I can heal my sentry that's being shot from across the map by a soldier without taking massive splash damage.

yeah nah

A good one that's benefiting his team.

I don't care about wrangler nerfs as much as heavy buffs and reworks
I want the huo long heater to do something cool, I want to go back to melee heavy
I used to use the metal fists, but its only effective if your enemies are retards. if they use melee you are fucked. Its still hilarious when it works to this day.

>GLOWING HAT MAN BAD
>tanks your FPS
>litterally just gambling for Epeen
>on top of all this it ruins the art style
>but everyone has this opinion so its bad

>not pulling out the fists when you need to escape

wut? soldier hard counters engineer

Engie repairs faster than soldier can do damage

>his DPS is average,
false

Soldier can out DPS the shotgun which is the average, he also has access to splash damage with dramatically improves his damage.

>He's the second worst in the category of ground speed, he can only go fast by spending HP

Which is easilly replenished by medkits scattered around for him, and can be mitigated drastically by the gunboats. His "2nd slowest" skyrockets to the fastest class in the game able to points in a matter of a few seconds.

>Play the game for at least 1000 hours and you'll realize that Scout consistently shits on Soldier in 1v1s

Which is rarely a scenario you should be involved in unless you're diving a medic. In which case you've already won.
You can also back off from the scout with gunboats, or shoot the fuckhead with your shotgun. A splash shot and a shotgun center mass will kill the scout. If you're in a small room you've won the matchup, if you're not you can rocket jump away.

>Soldier's only advantages over Scout are his short term mobility and fighting crowds.
which is the most important shit in the game, getting into position instantly > being mobile all the time.

Soldier kills the engineer with splash damage, and DH hard counters a sentry that's not being baby sat

>which is the most important shit in the game, getting into position instantly > being mobile all the time.
This, soldiers and demos getting to mid before scouts is one of the reasons they're such desirable classes. Midfights are often won by the team that gets there first and gets the positional advantage.

>splash damage
>DH

splash damage kills the engineer.
OR
the DH instantly kills the sentry.

>people needed an Uncle Dane video to notice how good wrangler is
Christ.

FUCK YOU THE POOL TABLE AND PACMAN MAPS WERE AWESOME

>they had to make the EMP weapon be a shotgun and not a pistol replacement
why why why

Pistol makes gunslinger scary.
>inb4 wrangler

mini isn't powerful enough and your entire output comes from a single source.

I just want a new sentry. A new real sentry. Not less gun like mini. I want "other gun." It should have happened. But now TF2 development is ded.

Everything you said is wrong and spoken like a newfag

>Soldier can out DPS the shotgun which is the average
do you know what DPS is

>Plays on competitive servers
>only plays competitive mode
>asks for random crits to be removed from non-competitive TF2
Why are competitive TF2 fags so retarded?

>Soldier can out DPS the shotgun which is the average
It's not the average because we don't compare all class primaries to a weapon that is a secondary tier to all classes but one, retard. Rocket Launcher is competing with Stickybomb Launcher, Scattergun, Minigun, Flamethrower, Knife, Sniper Rifle. So while it outdpses Shotgun and Syringe Gun, it is mediocre in damage output relative to the other primaries listed above. Making him average.
>Splash damage dramatically improves his damage
Demo has it too and the enemy team isn't clustered up at literally all times.
>medkits scattered around
Are you really implying they're everywhere all the time? Because if that was the case nobody would ever die from bleed or afterburn. There might be at best 2 health packs in any given area, and there's 12 to 24 players in a server. Don't give us that bullshit. Health packs do not fully mitigate the cost of rocket jumping, and using them to deal with jumping injury means you can't use them for combat injuries for the next 10 seconds.
>Gunboats
Not that they aren't good, but enjoy getting shat on royally by Scouts with no hitscan to defend yourself.
>Fastest class
No, Demo can go faster.
>Which is rarely a scenario you should be involved in
It's common. Again, play the game. I like how you're complaining about how good Gunboats make him, but simeltaneously recommending killing Scouts with Shotgun. You can't have both.
>If not you can rocket jumping away
Congrats retard, running away is a great argument for the class being OP. What if you're on the last point? Just lose?
>getting into position instantly
Getting into position to FIGHT

Competitive TF2 fags has shown me that esports is a fucking cancer that sucks the fun out of any game.

MYM ruined TF2, and even in the aftermath competitive fags are still killing the game by getting fun nerfed on a monthly basis

>b-but muh banlists
Fuck your banlists, the reason why you ban shit is because you want to ban fun.

>TF2 updates stopped
>playerbase remains
Was this the right time to be done with updates, or would you have preferred if it happened at a different stage?

I would prefer it to happen before MYM happened.

TF2 still gets updates, but they're just competitive esports pandering changes that nerfs all the fun unlockables.

>Instantly
It takes 2 hits with a 0.8 second firing interval. Meanwhile Stickybomb Launcher also takes 2 hits but with a 0.6s firing interval.

It's no better at killing sentries than stickies are, and an Engineer actually paying attention to his Sentry can keep it up for a significant period of time against DH with repairing or Wrangler.

not that guy, but demo can go faster only if you don't factor in the self damage, sticky jumping is more powerful than rocket jumping, but demo doesn't have the hp to support doing it constantly, in top level play, good soldiers are constantly repositioning, flanking, chasing, retreating, etc with rocket jumps, in fact top level soldiers don't really ever walk anywhere, demo can't do that
if you want to talk just raw distance potential with infinite health, then yea, demo wins, but in actual real game practical movement, no one is even close to what the soldier is capable of

fuck comp fags
>bitch and whine that tf2 has no competitive support when they have dedicated fucking servers that they themselves can run
>bitch until valve forces competitive MMR shit on the community, killing community servers as everyone now just uses matchmaking
>The only community servers left are furry trading servers doing conga shit

You misunderstood the definition of hard counter apparently. A hard counter is one that always wins.
Have you seen Engineers with Shotguns kill Soldier before? Then obviously it's not a hard counter.
And nothing in TF2 is apart from the scissors paper rock minigame, it's all soft counters. It would be a shit game if it had hard counters.

In fact Soldier doesn't sofr counter Engineer either since an Engineer setup near Metal has a very decent chance of keeping a Sentry up against Soldier. Demo is Engie's soft counter because no way are you keeping a Sentry up against stickies (though you might kill the demo with your shotgun).

>because you want to ban fun
Because you want to ban antifun*

Sitting at last watching Engineers jack off their aimbots and denying all pushes stops being funny after the first 20 minutes, for both teams

>want to play TF2 because of talk about some neat abilities
>install
>play for 10 minutes before getting sick of the infinite grenade, rocket and pyro spam
>uninstall
>repeat in two weeks

>medics have to spend so much effort to take down a wrangled sentry nest whereas the engineer only needs to press 2!
did he forget to mention the time to actually build/collect metal/upgrade a level 3 sentry

>having trouble against pyro
get a lot of this guy

>but demo can go faster only if you don't factor in the self damage
Well he's obviously not being fair and factoring in the effect of self damage on soldier either, and he's repeatedly emphasized how important positioning is, so why not bring up that soldier is not in fact the fastest class?
Long term mobility Scout>soldier>demo
Short term mobility Demo>soldier>scout

>Uncle Dane
>plat
>good
Dude got cut from low Gold team, he's fucking awful.

>comp fags
>>bitch and whine
The only one I see bitching and whining right now is you, every single thread once you turn up. You're obsessed brother

Dustbowl problems

>TFW cant hit shit as Scout

Engineer as a class is not fun for other players.

Try to aim more with strafing and less with mouse. Also lower your sensitivity and enable raw input if you haven't already.

Have you never seen a Dane video in your life, the man knows exactly how much effort that takes and has worked out down to a science how to trivialise the build and upgrade time of a Sentry by swapping between Jag, Eureka Effect for the teleport and stock (which you can even get a script for), you get the metal from spawn, use Jag to put it up quickly and use EE to get more metal and teleport back fast. His opinion on random crits is dumb but you can't really question his engineer expertise

does he only know how to play engineer

Comp should have been 12v12 from the start as this solves all the problems 6s has.

you anti comp people are the only people that bitch and whine, and project it onto others

It's irrelevant in setup, and setting up a level 3 sentry is not that long

>Spend literally ten years trying to get a full team together, the matchmaking system already takes long enough with 6v6
>Voice chat is a fucking mess
Yeah great idea dumbass.

he literally says in the same exact video that it takes 30 seconds or more, compared to medic's 40 second charge time

>post scout update
>heyday

Medic is OP holy cow that will never be nerfed

Ubersaw should be +25% uber on hit with a passive -20% uber buildup from healing, none of that swing speed nonsense.

Medic is also at much more risk of dying building uber on the front lines healing wounded people 400HU from the fight with every Scout, Sniper, Spy and Soldier after your ass, whereas most of the setup time of a level 3 is near your spawn and/or behind the frontlines

He's right you know.tiff

He is, but he's quick to jump to radical solutions. Reducing wrangler resistance to 50% would be just fine.

>maining the aimbot builder
kekkles

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half of his subs half to be TF2's signature 13 year old retards, right? how the fuck else would a fanbase be so consistently like that? it's the same shit that happens with Game Theory, and that's a HIT with kids

No shit? Why do you think a 20-something guy calls his audience nieces and nephews?

More buildings in general. Catapult when? System structure overhaul of Valve when?

tl;dr Versatility is 100x better than hard-countering and Soldier's flaws don't compensate for that.

>soldier "has no counter" because he also counters nobody
In practice, this doesn't really balance him. The meager disadvantage of not explicitly countering any one class (except maybe engie) doesn't hold a candle to the usefulness of being as consistently and generally good as he is. In some other games, min/maxing and hard-countering is better than being a more even generalist. This is usually either because the maxes of min/maxing are so intense, or because the generalists are overall weaker to compensate for their versatility. Soldier, meanwhile, is still an offensive powerhouse (in a way that's also good for defense) while things that are supposed to gimp him (like rocket-jumping costing HP or slow reloading) just don't impact him enough. His positive traits are at least on par with those of other classes that ARE min/maxed (like Scout or Medic), while his flaws aren't as bad as those of such classes (like Heavy or Pyro).

>his DPS is average
The method by which that DPS is administered is important here. It's delivered in large bursts of damage which include splash damage. Compare that to something like Pyro or Heavy's stream of damage. It may damage targets more if you whiff your tracking for a moment versus missing an entire rocket's worth of damage, but the longer time-to-kill gives targets more of a window to escape or otherwise do something important. This is part of the reason why classes with concentrated bursts of damage like Scout, Soldier, Demo, and Sniper are generally better for getting kills. Not to say that Heavy and Pyro can't do better than them under the right circumstances, but that's exactly it. They need specific circumstances to do better than the competition. Meanwhile, the competition can do sufficiently ALL THE TIME, sometimes to a point where the advantages of picking a specialist aren't worth sacrificing that versatility.

>no u

great fucking job

a lack of HP may not matter if that high mobility lets you get the jump on targets and kill them, in which case you wouldn't have combat injuries either unless more enemies showed up

>running away is a great argument for the class being OP. What if you're on the last point? Just lose?

first of all, situations in which you're defending from a class you'd otherwise run from aren't exclusive to soldier. plus, that's a specific situation. secondly, "running away" is a very excellent utility. it's part of why scout is so goddamn good. high mobility allows you to pick your fights. that combined with still being powerful enough to be a generalist means that running away from a bad matchup isn't the end of the world.

the amount of damage a demo would have to take to achieve that higher mobility than soldier would make him die from a sneeze. it's just not practical or frequent enough to actually be relevant

You can run a stickyjumper and still have a damage output comparable to a gunboats soldier. Admittedly rockets are easier than pipes though.

the entire game revolves around him. the devs just don't want to even try touching such a delicate, yet crucial, balance that could potentially come crashing down

Good Soldiers don't use the rocket jumps as an offensive maneuver unless either the target is isolated, he's flanking on a contested area, he's doing a sacrificial high-risk play on an important target, like the Medic.
Yes, healthpacks can help him heal up the damage, but going into groups to kill the medic still carries the risk of him dying before he can try to escape.

>Versatility is 100x better than hard-countering
Nah, that theorycrafting goes both ways. When you are in a specific situation do you want the best class for that situation or do you want an all rounder who is not the best? Pyro is versatile too but happens to be garbage, there is no particular reason that versatility needs to be better than specialism.

Your on paper balancing doesn't change that in the real world in pubs Snipers/Demos/Scouts/Medics topscore just as much as Soldier does, and in competitive play Soldier is actually considered the weakest out of him, Scout and Demo. Demo provides invaluable defense plus high constant damage output, while Scout will wipe the floor with an equally skilled Soldier 1v1 and caps faster. So in both formats, in the real world, in the real game people play that isn't inside your head, Soldier is balanced.

I don't give a shit about comp or metas or any of this over complicated drivel I just want this terrible matchmaking system to be gone forever

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what
i saw at least two people use it during the whole day

>play spy
>backstab engie while he's busy playing with his wrangler
>sap his shit effortlessly because lol 3 second disable
wow so overpowered

>but going into groups to kill the medic still carries the risk of him dying before he can try to escape
that's not an exclusive downside for soldier. unless it's a scout, a far-away sniper, or some demo who's insane enough to use the sticky jumper over having 8 spammy explosives and explosive traps, everyone else would risk dying there too.

But then how else will you tell if you're good or not!
>as I wait for 10 hours for a ranked match only to have my team throw because its fucking TF2

not him but you talk like a real dickhead

This so fucking hard, Match Making makes TF2 so fucking unfun.

>Snipers/Demos/Scouts/Medics topscore just as much as Soldier does
They're all standing on the shoulders of giants. Just one giant, actually, and his name is Soldier. Others might get points from capping or getting kills instead of kill assists, but that doesn't make them the backbone of the team. If someone deals 95 damage to a 100-health target, and someone else does the last 5, I'm giving the credit to the former guy cuz he did most of the job. Soldier's consistent potency is the lifeblood of a good team. It's that bit of extra push that his teammates need in order to succeed in areas where they may otherwise fail. Sure, a Pyro might be better in close-quarters, or an Engie might be good in the right spot, but they'd be a hell of a lot less useful if there weren't soldiers, demos, scouts, and medics to back them up. It's not like the entirety of a map will actually allow for those specific advantages to matter, either, and the areas of a map where they'd work might not even be all that important. Their faults would be so much more easily exploited it weren't for their generalist pals. If a support class has to run away and get back into his own territory, I'm not gonna give him credit for running good. I'm gonna give credit to the guys that were back at home base and keeping that territory established, so the enemy wouldn't be able to track the support down and kill him there. If a bunch of people are hanging around at the end of a choke, building uber & waiting to use a banner, and the opposing team are pushing to drive them off, the presence of just one soldier could mean all the difference in the world versus someone like Pyro or Heavy that may be more powerless to it.

100% this

steamrolls every time, it's really tiring

I haven't played tf2 in forever, I remember engineers most powerful weapon was the mini sentry but it got nerfed. Also that control remote that would give your sentry a shield was busted and banned in competitive, are you guys talking about that one?

>because he feels it's not fun for other players
But this is the whole point of TF2. To ruin everyone's day and make everyone around you seething.

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yeah, though i assume it'll get changed in the next update, whenever that is.

Cool, go police post structure somewhere else

no

>backbone of the team
In pubs that would be the heavy med combo and in comp that would be the demo med combo. Go check logs.tf, demo is usually the top damage output.

If they could trade a soldier for a third Scout or second Demo in comp they certainly would, which is why 1 demo limitation exists.
>but they'd be a hell of a lot less useful if there weren't soldiers, demos, scouts, and medics to back them up
And I agree with this because the tier list is
>Medic
>Soldier, Scout, Demo, Sniper
>Engie/Heavy (situationally)
>Pyro/Spy
I'm not disagreeing that Pyro and Spy are worse at all, I'm disagreeing with the notion of singling out Soldier specifically among the "generalists" (not that I'm even comfortable with that term because it's usually used to defend not balancing the game).

Fuck competitive TF2 fags

Give me my ambassador back.

Highlander was at fault for that, everyone in 6v6 thought the nerf was retarded

Everyone who headshots me is a hacker and everyone who bodyshoots me is a noob

>Class designed to be a 1v3 roadblock, with the main drawback that his big gimmick is stationary turrets
>LOL LETS FUCKING NERF THE CLASS AT ITS ONE FUCKING JOB WHILE I KILL MYSELF TRYING TO DO SICK BULLET JUMPS

Just play sniper you pussy
Or are you scared of fighting other snipers?

>6v6 becomes the official comp mode
>still decide to balance around highlander
fucking sigapoo

>>Class designed to be a 1v3 roadblock
When did anyone at Valve ever say 1v3ing was his explicit design? It's like saying Pyro was shit by intentional design (inb4 "hurr durr he was")

>The unarguably most overpowered class weapon combos are stock soldier and demoman
>Lets keep nerfing spy and engineer because head shots, backstabs, and sentry auto aim makes reddit sad :(

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>overpowered
Balanced*
Pyro/Spy need a buff rework, Engineer/Heavy need a rework and Medic needs a nerf.

Nerfing Demo and Soldier down to Pyro and Spy's level would accomplish nothing but making the game more imbalanced, because Sniper and Scout and Medic and defensive Engie/heavy would still be leagues above them, making it take more work to get the game balanced.

Soldier+Sniper+Scout+Demo is the biggest tier of classes on the same power level in the game, so it would take the least work to balance the game around them, so they are the balanced ones.

So then why are they nerfing every class that isn't soldier or demo constantly?

Just backstab the engie

Overall they nerfed Demo a bunch of times around 2015 (caber, stickies, shields, booties, lnl) and stock Soldier hasn't really been buffed since 2007, they buffed stock Spy movespeed and damage resistance while in cloak a bit and sort of buffed Pyro. They also gave Heavy small buffs around

But yes, I agree the Ambassador nerf was a stupid decision. And nerfing Dragon's Fury hitbox size without buffing it in another area was a stupid decision. But overall for the stock classes, balance has slightly improved over time.

As for why Valve are so fucking slow and lazy? Company structure and no incentives given for working on TF2.

There is no reliable way to hire new blood to keep this game alive.
Hopefully heavy update comes out a few months.

Yeah I also disagree with him. The wrangler is already fine as it is and is the only thing stopping someone ldiers and demos from killing your sentry in 2 quick hits.

Also what is up with this "slows down the game" shit? Ain't defense classes supposed to hold points and slow down the other team?

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I wish people still made r34 of her besides the current like 2 people who do

Dabble used to do it but he stopped uploading a while ago.

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this times 4000 billion milllion niggertrillion
fuck this shitty matchmaking system, its completely killed my love for tf2

>Also what is up with this "slows down the game" shit? Ain't defense classes supposed to hold points and slow down the other team
Yes, but not to the point that both sides get so slowed down in symmetrical gamemodes that they take a literal hour to finish the game. Or, in the case of most CTF maps, hourS.

TF2'S defensive classes are a hangover from TFC where you had incredibly mobile offense classes like conc jumping Combat Medic who could zoom from end to end of the map in 5 seconds with no health loss, use bhop and strafe to maintain that high speed, and gib people in an instant with cookable grenades, so you needed powerful defensive classes to ensure they had to stop and actually win a fight before getting out.
But in TF2 they took away much of that mobility (unless you run jumpers and give up damage), so now we have powerful defenders with no equally powerful attackers to match, and stuff like Wrangler makes that problem a hundred times worse.

travel time means the .6 for the sticky will be longer

>heals players
>gives teleporters
>give an assigned enemy to defeat in a static location

seems fine.

>No equally powerful attackers

You know as a soldier and a demoman, you can shoot rockets at the turret and it blows up?

Wrangler is designed to counter that, but by using it you put yourself in danger or you shut down the turret for 5 seconds, and you can still beat the wrangler by co-ordinating your attack and not being stupid.

Uncle Dane clearly just valve to remove the shield but remove self damage so he can just bullet jump around like a retard and being a detriment to his team.

this dude started playing TF2 after i got sick of it after hundreds of hours sunk into it

Flight time matters very little if you get close, and at any rate projectile speed differences in TF2 are not huge (most people don't realise Sandman ball is the fastest projectile in the game, for instance).
Over really long distances where speed does matter, a first charged sticky will fly 400hu/s faster than a DH rocket helping make up the difference, and will have a larger clip and more damage if the engineer happens to be there guarding the sentry and repairing it; a sentry can last longer being attacked by DH than it can against stickies.

Stickies will also splash the engineer possibly killing him (and any buildings he put too close) and can be thrown over walls or damage around corners without direct LoS because they have splash, whereas DH will not.

>But in TF2 they took away much of that mobility (unless you run jumpers and give up damage), so now we have powerful defenders with no equally powerful attackers to match, and stuff like Wrangler makes that problem a hundred times worse.
You've never actually played tf2 outside of 24/7 2fort, have you?
Pretty much every single match is decided by how competent Heavy/Soldier/Demo is on either team with sentries doing their job of actively slowing down enemy team because that's the whole fucking point of the class that builds them.

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>You've never actually played tf2 outside of 24/7 2fort, have you?
Yes you fucking moron? 3400+ hours of it and I specifically avoid 2fort now for the reasons I listed, the last time I even set foot in 2fort was for a Jungle Inferno contract 2 fucking years ago.
>Pretty much every single match is decided by how competent Heavy/Soldier/Demo is on either team
How does that disprove what I'm saying? There is no dedicated attacker class with the free mobility and damage on the level of old combat medic who can compensate for the travel time that all attackers need to suffer in TF2's SYMMETRICAL modes, such as 5CP.

Defending sides in TF2 get a respawn cabinet, Level 3 Sentry, stickytraps, the 300HP bulk and 500DPS of Heavy, defensive airblasts to stall Uber, and what do attackers get to deal with that and compensate for the longer distance they have to travel? They get exactly the same stuff a defending team can already field if they want to (soldiers, demos, scouts, ubers,) and they don't get Heavy or Engie's raw stats because they are too slow for attackers to move up and push with.