Japanese "role-playing"

I fucking hate party based RPGs
I'm here to role play my character, not a whole group of fags some other retard created

if you talked shit about my waifu Garnett to me irl, i would unironically 360noscope shREKT you.

Personally, my favorite kind of JRPG is one that incorporates live combat, and you can't button mash through menus to win it.

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The combat is heavily dependant on loot, a lack of good loot affects your options and confidence within combat.

As far as "strictly combat" goes, that image isn't worth looking at, they are completely different genres of gameplay and combat. One is environment based, the other is not. A more fair comparison would be any number of Fire Emblem games, any number of Disgaea games, that have "movement" as a core part of combat.
As well as holding ANY game as a standout of WRPG when the genre has been hanging on for life only to see a recent resurgence, whereas the "simple" turn based JRPG format has been maintaining momentum for a decent time (but has had it's fair share of flops).

I usually dislike images like this on principle, the only time where they should be brought out is with giant asterisks when somebody asks "I have enough for one of these two games" or "I'm new to video-games what are the general ideas I should learn going forward".
It's like, while everything it says is "technically accurate" it doesn't mention the core aspect of the Persona series' combat being the fusion system (which itself is supported by the S.link system), and compares it to Divinity, which had entire trailers and developer updates going "check out how cool this Water>Steam=Cover>ElectrifiedSteam thing is!"

It comes across as disingenuous, when there are merits to both games and genres, and it ultimately comes down to personal taste.

"role" "playing" "games"

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Based, can anyone save rpg games?

I don't think I've ever seen any of these images posted without the original poster getting their shit slapped in. Why do you keep doing it? Masochism? Do you get off on being called a fag idiot?

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>A more fair comparison would be any number of Fire Emblem games, any number of Disgaea games, that have "movement" as a core part of combat.
False analogy. Those are tactics/strategy games. The wrpgs in that image are structed like jrpgs, with exploration in between combat encounters. That's why they're being compared.

>As well as holding ANY game as a standout of WRPG when the genre has been hanging on for life only to see a recent resurgence, whereas the "simple" turn based JRPG format has been maintaining momentum for a decent time (but has had it's fair share of flops).
This is a mindless appeal to popularity. Unless you think Call of Duty is the best game of all time? Popularity does not indicate quality.

Autism. There's a 90% chance it's the guy who was spamming Japanese "humor" threads for months

This was originally a pro-jrpg, anti-wrpg image. You can still tell because you only edited the text, while keeping images, like that character creation screen, that depicts wrpgs in a negative and unflattering lightt

we all know that retard

japanese "story-telling"

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Edwina is a Conjurer.

Based, RPGs were always for fags. Real men play Tetris and Doom.

>Persona 5
>most abilities and spells affect their target in a straightforward way, such as damaging or heaing them
This isn't true though. Persona 5 has a good amount of buffs and debuffs as well as interesting status effects. Also, several kinds of "damage them" moves have different secondary effects as well as other properties to consider.

I know your baiting me, but fuck it, I'll bite, I never really get a chance to talk about it otherwise
> Those are tactics/strategy games. The wrpgs in that image are structed like jrpgs, with exploration in between combat encounters
Except, as stated earlier, this is not about the context surrounding the combat, simply the combat itself. If one combat system incoorporates movement as a core mechanic then I would dare say that it can hardly be compared to a combat system that doesn't.
Such a combat system includes many things that a system without movement cannot do effectively, such as ranges and areas of effect.
The lack of these things is not a "flaw", but a design decision.

>Mindless appeal to popularity. Unless you think Call of Duty is the best game of all time?
Perhaps you misunderstood me. I wasn't saying that it's bad because the genre isn't popular, just that in order to accomplish a resurgence, you, by necessity, are interested in innovating and creating something unique, because you can't rely on a "successful genre" to have your back.

>Edwina is a Conjurer.
So? Baldur's Gate still has summoning magic, it just isn't restricted to a specific class.

>This isn't true though. Persona 5 has a good amount of buffs and debuffs as well as interesting status effects. Also, several kinds of "damage them" moves have different secondary effects as well as other properties to consider.
Yes, and? Do you seriously think buffs and debuffs are anything special? Even the most simplistic rpg in existence has them.

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Nips btfo
Stay mad, weeb

This thread isn't dead yet?

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Thread starts with a guy triggering weebs and ends in both parties being butthurt. Good stuff.

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Now if only some decent wRpgs were being made

pathfinder was kinda good but i want more[\spoiler]

FF15
Lol

>JRPG combat:
>a tactical, turn-based battle system heavily inspired by classic tabletop RPGs, with each special ability lavishly animated

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lol

After hearing people hype it up so much Original Sin was one of the most disappointing games I have ever played, a majority of it's difficultly simply being "lol just quicksave bro"

>JRPG combat:
>a tactical, turn-based battle system heavily inspired by classic tabletop RPGs, with each special ability lavishly animated

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If you're a faggot that is.

>After hearing people hype it up so much Original Sin was one of the most disappointing games I have ever played, a majority of it's difficultly simply being "lol just quicksave bro"

>Having to scavescum to beat encounters

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>there's no kingdom hearts thread so im gonna post it in anywhere else

10/10 barry
C O P E

Actually the importance of buffs and debuffs in SMT games is unique among JRPGs

>use turn based games as your selling point
>best turned based game was made by bongs anyways
Kek

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FATTO CATTO

JRPGs
>takes D&D and dumbs it down hard enough to be almost unrecognizable so as to not confuse the masses (Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy)
WRPGs
>literally a 1-to-1 port of tabletop rules (Baldur’s Gate, Fallout)

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Conjuration has all the summoning spells

You misunderstand, that was intended to be damning to JRPGs as a whole because only one franchise actually has combat that’s slightly more than ATTACK SKILL ITEM

The game literally has bosses that open up attacks that can kill your entire party before you get a damn chance to do a thing, user, with the only way to avoid it being to exploit the fact your other characters can move around while one is in dialogue. The game's design is to catch you off guard, have you reload, and then try again. But even if it was actually difficult, like the classic RPGs it claimed to be like, it would still be a boring slog of a game with bad writing that made me feel like I was playing a game of D&D with a DM that thew a bitch fit whenever I tried to get off his railroad.

>The game literally has bosses that open up attacks that can kill your entire party before you get a damn chance to do a thing
no it doesn't?

Wrpgs dont even come out anymore except for a very few of AAA trash

Dont count slav games as "western"

You Anglo effeminate boys only cave in to SJWs and are fooled by AAA marketing, and ruined every middle/small wrpgs

Modern JRPGs are still stuck in the past and don't even bother to innovate anymore now that the Nipponese devs know and aware that they need to have waifu and VAs and fanservice and shit in order to sell their game. This is a fact. Just look at DQ11. Combat system straight out of the first game without even bothering to improve on it but it's okay because Martina is a semen demon and the game also has a loli. The same can be said to FE, Xeno, Tales of, FF, Neptunia, Disgaea, and other soulless JRPGshit.

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Braccus Rex opens up with meteor shower. If your party is grouped together at the beginning of the fight, as it more likely will be, you will most likely be wiped out.

>Dont count slav games as "western"
Slav games have very similar design philosophy as western games. See Slav RPgs like Silent Storm and Pathfinder: Kingmaker.

>lets his characters be grouped together even though the game lets you spread them apart
>WHY DO AREA OF EFFECT ABILITIES HURT ME

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Roleplaying in JRPG
>Your character and his background are pre-decided

Roleplaying in WRPG:
>Your character and his background are left purposefully vauge so you can self insert and play pretend in your head.

Roleplaying in CRPGs
>You a have host of options to select which decide your characters background is, all of them impact his stats in some way and can potentially give you unique dialogue options

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I love to break immersion to pre-position all of my dudes before a fight by having to exploit the fact enemies just don't do shit when you're talking to them. Really gets me into the mood to play those roles.

>Japan literally makes better WRPGs, than the west

Its over. You lost.

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>game with no role-playing
>better rpg
Uhm, sweetie...

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>dark souls
>rpg
LoL

why do westcucks pretend that the average wrpg has anything to do with the cherry picked shit depicted on these images, or that japan doesn't also have more hardcore rpgs?

the average wrpg is just a casual action game with light dialogue choice elements and maybe some barebones character customization

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>dark souls
>wrpg
dark souls is literally a 3d symphony of the night
it's a unique jrpg just like Monster Hunter. It has jackshit to do with wrpg game design

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Do WRPG fans have the worst case of low self esteem? You see no other fanbases bitching like this all the time.
Well thinking about it this happened with lol vs dota 2 too but nobody plays those games anymore

>why do westcucks pretend that the average wrpg has anything to do with the cherry picked shit depicted on these images, or that japan doesn't also have more hardcore rpgs?
>the average wrpg is just a casual action game with light dialogue choice elements and maybe some barebones character customization
Almost every wrpg in existence, even mainstream dumbed down stuff liek Skyrim, has a suite of thief skills, whereas this sort of stuff is virtually non-existent in jrpgs.

Why would you be in denial about this?

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Be nice. It's a dead genre, games coming out now being nothing more than shallow copies of the great classics. JRPGS, on the other hand, are in a golden age.

\
New vegas is a talking simulator

>dark souls is literally a 3d symphony of the night

>game where you can't even jump
>3d symphony of the night

>It has jackshit to do with wrpg game design

>you create your own character and assign their stats (something almost non-existent in jrpgs, where you typically play as a pre-defined character)
>uses a stamina system (a common feature in wrpgs since the 80's, even elder scrolls had it decades before dark souls, but far less common in jrpgs)
>uses a vancian system for spellcasting derived from western tabletop rpgs such as d&d
>uses a classless system (common in wrpgs like fallout and elder scrolls, but almost non-existent in jrpgs)
>story is primarily told through gameplay, like many other wrpgs and in sharp contrast to jrpgs which typically feature hours of non-interactive cutscenes)
>an emphasis on non-linear exploration (again, common in wrpgs, almost non-existent in jrpgs)
>enemies are pulled straight from western rpgs (e.g. mindflayers, mimics, myconids, etc.)
>armor changes your appearance (again, common in wrpgs, almost non-existent in jrpgs)
>combat is suspiciously similar to a number of wrpgs like severance: blade of darkness
>many other gameplay mechanics and features it shares with wrpgs

>jackshit to do with wrpg game design

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I'll trade all those thief skills in for the ability to steal stuff that's actually useful

Is it just me, or are jrpgs extremely homogenous?

A good way to demonstrate what I mean is to look at how jrpgs utilize their settings. For instance, if you look at wrpgs that aren't high fantasy, like say Fallout, Deus Ex, Jagged Alliance, Vampire The Masquerade, etc. they tend to incorporate aspects of their setting in their gameplay. And I don't mean things like characters using guns. I mean stuff like Fallout having a barter economy, which is logical in a post-apocalyptic society where monetization has broken down. Or how cybernetic augmentations in Deus Ex take the place of a more traditional RPG system. Or the whole mercenary company aspect of Jagged Alliance.

It's obvious that a game's setting should inform its gameplay. But jrpgs really don't do this. Even jrpgs that take place in modern or futuristic settings, such as Persona or Xenoblade, still revolve around typical high fantasy cliches like dungeon crawling and god-killing shenanigans. The characters even still use medieval weaponry. Heck, Symphony of the Night is a Japanese vampire RPG where you play as a vampire, yet you can't even bite anyone to drink blood, meaning you can't even fulfil the basic function of a vampire. How lame is that? Or heck, Lost Odyssey, a game where you play as immortals, yet you can somehow die from combat.

Another baffling trope is when jrpgs take place in a world such as Final Fantasy 7 or 15, where the technology and level of civilization is far more advanced than our own. Yet despite said technology and level of civilization, the world functions like a standard medieval fantasy world, with small settlements separated by vast, uncharted expanses of wilderness filled with wild beasts and roving bandits, and characters still using medieval weaponry. What is the point of going with a futuristic setting if it's functionally and thematically identical to a medieval fantasy world?

I don't really understand why jrpgs are designed like this.

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This reads like a forums post by a dude with a halo avatar who thinks he's smarter than he really is, but in a "guy tries too hard to act as smart as he thinks he is way, but is well meaning all the same" way, and not a "insufferable jackass" way.

Now if that's good or bad, I'll leave that up to you.

Wrpgs tend to have better world building than jrpgs.

Take for example Persona games. They don't even you explore the intrigue of an urban fantasy setting, for the gameplay sections they teleport you to another dimension that is literally a monster-filled maze. Despite taking place in modern times, characters use medieval weaponry, which civilians inexplicably posses and willing to sell to a bunch of teenagers. You heal deadly injuries with candy. Despite the occult theme, the spells and abilities are the most cookie cutter elemental JRPG spells possible. There's no effort whatsoever made to create a believable urban fantasy setting that reconciles the fantastical with the mundane. The game feels schizophrenic in tone, jumping back and forth between Japanese teenage highschool drama and high fantasy dungeon crawler. It's like the developers wanted to create an urban fantasy setting, but were too lazy to flesh out such a setting and just went with standard high fantasy tropes.

Contrast that with say, Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines, which utilizes its modern-day setting in every aspect of its gameplay and narrative. For example, since you're a vampire healing is done by feeding on enemies or NPC's or by consuming blood bags, which you can get by having an employee at the local hospital smuggle them out for you. The weapons you use aren't medieval, but modern ones like firearms and improvised tools like tire irons and baseball bats, and the people who sell them to you are criminal fencers. Instead of generic elemental spells, you hack computers and use vampiric disciplines such as mental domination or a mist form which renders you invisible. The game takes place in urban locales, not some abstract dimension, and NPC's will panic and alert the cops if you reveal your vampiric nature in public, and being careless will mae vampire hunters come after you. That's how you translate urban fantasy to a video game.

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Summoning undead creatures is Necromancy

>game where you can't even jump
you literally never played dark souls
>uses a stamina system
literally just as common in jrpgs as it is in wrpgs
>>uses a vancian system for spellcasting derived from western tabletop rpgs such as d&d
standard for literally all rpgs in general, completely common in jrpgs
>>uses a classless system
bullshit, Souls has no real class system. Not like this would matter, since classes are common in jrpgs too
>>story is primarily told through gameplay, like many other wrpgs and in sharp contrast to jrpgs which typically feature hours of non-interactive cutscenes)
bullshit, environmental story telling is much more common in jrpgs than in wrpgs. Wrpgs very literal and direct about their story telling
>>an emphasis on non-linear exploration (again, common in wrpgs, almost non-existent in jrpgs)
it's literally designed like symphony of the night where you explore a tighter envrionment, open shortcuts, and go through challenges and bosses to proceed
>>enemies are pulled straight from western rpgs (e.g. mindflayers, mimics, myconids, etc.)
these are basic fantasy tropes, none of this shit is exclusive to western rpgs
>there is character customization
same with Monster Hunter, or even God Eater does that suddenly make these wrpgs too?
>>combat is suspiciously similar to a number of wrpgs like severance: blade of darkness
stop forcing this shitty meme. BoD has fucking shooter style controls. Dark Souls plays like Monster Hunter and Ocarina of Time (lock on)

there are no dialogue choices which is the main essence of WRPGs. It's literally just yes or no options like in most jrpgs
focus on challenging real time action combat is also a Japanese trait. Same with emphasis on boss fights

Dark Souls is a game about going through level design, opening shortcuts, doing boss battles, etc. (exactly like in Symphony of the Night)

It's not a game about character dialogue options, or other simulator-like elements like what wrpgs usually strive for

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not in D&D, necromancy just means you debuff people and do negative damage.

baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Animate_Dead_(wizard)

>>uses a classless system
fuck, completely misread that
still, neither one of these is uncommon in Japanese rpgs. There are several jrpgs where you are doing builds instead of picking classes, just like in souls

>bioware games
Lmao go play some more Anthem fanboy.

based. Everything is terrible.
but i like it.

You can't even name one modern JRPGs with good gameplay. It's all about waifufaggotry with tacked on gameplay. Almost all JRPG threads are about some anons wanting to fuck this waifu or lick her armpits. Meanwhile, western RPG and turn based tactics fans are having a field day with D:OS 1 & 2, Wasteland 2 & 3, XCOM2 & WOTC, Pathfinder: KM, Xenonaut 2, Phoenix Point, Underrail, ATOM RPG, to name a few.

>you literally never played dark souls
You know damn well what I mean. You can't freely jump in Souls, nor can you make a true vertical jump, you can only do a leap forward. How on earth does that make Souls similar to Castlevania, a platformer?

>literally just as common in jrpgs as it is in wrpgs
Such as? Name pre-souls jrpgs with a stamina system. I could list tons of pre-souls wrpgs with a stamina system.

>bullshit, environmental story telling is much more common in jrpgs than in wrpgs.
I could name tons of wrpgs with ZERO cutscenes where your control as a player is taken away, outside of intro and ending. I doubt you could do the same for jrpgs.

>these are basic fantasy tropes, none of this shit is exclusive to western rpgs
All the monsters I listed were specifically INVENTED by wrpgs.

>same with Monster Hunter, or even God Eater does that suddenly make these wrpgs too?
Neither of those are rpgs, they're hunter games. Even if we were two count those as rpgs, how does that help your argument? Two titles out of thousands of jrpgs. You know damn well that armor changing your appearance is common in wrpgs, but almost non-existent in jrpgs.

>stop forcing this shitty meme. BoD has fucking shooter style controls. Dark Souls plays like Monster Hunter and Ocarina of Time (lock on)
BoD has lock on, you absolute mongoloid.

what exactly is your goal wrpg-kun?

you are spamming these shitty pictures and pastas of yours since like a year now. What exactly are you trying to accomplish with all this?

the oldschool wrpgs are dead, actual mainstream wrpgs are nothing like them
the common type of oldschool jrpgs are also borderline dead, the only relevant japanese rpgs are unique action ones like KH, MonHun or Souls-likes

you are putting sich a ridiculous amount of effort into a shitflinging war between 2 dead genres. This shit goes beyond autism

This is the result when a budget goes to creating some sappy and cliché scenes that are supposed to make a lasting print on someone's memories instead of focusing on the gameplay in a videoGAME.

Those images were posted by different people.

I know, because I was one of them.

Wrpg-kun is not a person. It's not even a group. It's a philosophy that transcends time and place and that never fails to send weebs into a buttblasted frenzy.

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What game is that? Also I agree. Always preferred Tales of Phantasia to, say, Chrono Trigger because the combat was just more fun.

Souls games are closer to TPS than RPG.

WEEB SHIT IS SHIT

MORE NEWS AT 11

I mean, incel weebs will defend their shitty japshit games, but in their hearts they know the only reason why they play them is because of cutsy kawaii girls, not actual gameplay.

What a great game, actually got me immersed
Too bad the ending segments are rushed.

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Damn weebs are really getting BTFO'd in this thread.

>How on earth does that make Souls similar to Castlevania, a platformer?
because Sotn was never a real platformer. There isn't a single time in the game where platforming is part of the game's challenge, it's just the way you travel through the game since it's a sidescroller

>I could name tons of wrpgs with ZERO cutscenes
description is the exact same thing as cutscenes you tard, and Wrpgs pretty much always directly shove their stories down your throat, them not being told in cutscenes but in descriptions is completely irrelevant.
meanwhile intentionally leaving missing information to your own imagination is a very common thing in japanese games

>Such as? Name pre-souls jrpgs with a stamina system.
literally monster hunter. It's obviously the most direct inspiration for the demon souls combat. Other than that there are many action rpgs or combo based games where stamina is a thing, like multiple tales of games

>All the monsters I listed were specifically INVENTED by wrpgs.
tabletop rpgs are not video games you retard, this shit wasn't invented by western video games. All rpgs in general were inspired by tabletop rpgs, popular jrpgs like DQ uses these tropes too.

>Neither of those are rpgs, they're hunter games
what a load of bullshit. They are just as much rpgs as souls is. You could literally say the same thing about how Dark Souls is not an rpg, it's a souls-like

>You know damn well that armor changing your appearance is common in wrpgs
the thing is, it's only a common thing in mainstream, modern WRPGs, which pretty much miss all the things you are praising wrpgs for. Oldschool wrpgs (like the shit wrpg-kun is spamming constantly) very rarely had these features or them appeared outside of interfaces

>BoD has lock on,
BoD is a game with mouse based shooter controls. Why the fuck would you desperately tryi to compare Souls to that when Monster Hunter already exist, which actually plays and controls like Souls?

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>Those images were posted by different people.
>I know, because I was one of them.

stop samefagging this desperately

all these pictures are edited in the exact same way, and use the exact same ridiculous cherry picking method, like not even a hint of subtlety in them. We know exactly that (You) are the same autist, you won't fool anyone with this shit.

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>description is the exact same thing as cutscenes you tard
Description of what? Most wrpgs have non-linear structures that let you permanently murder story npcs and beeline straight to the final boss, that's how little the developers care about you missing the story.

Meanwhile, jrpgs like Persona 5 literally have 43 hours of cutscenes.

It's undeniable that jrpgs have a far greater emphasis on story. Why would you be in denial about this?

>literally monster hunter.
So you were only able to name a single example, which isn't even a real rpg, but a hunter game, and that came out decades after wrpgs with stamina systems?

> Other than that there are many action rpgs or combo based games where stamina is a thing, like multiple tales of games
I've never played a Tales game with a stamina system. Which one are you referring to?

>tabletop rpgs are not video games you retard
Those tabletop rpgs were adapted to video games, you mongoloid.

>the thing is, it's only a common thing in mainstream, modern WRPGs, which pretty much miss all the things you are praising wrpgs for. Oldschool wrpgs (like the shit wrpg-kun is spamming constantly) very rarely had these features or them appeared outside of interfaces
Wrong. Fallout and Baldur's Gate for example had armor change your appearance and they came out in the 90's.

>BoD is a game with mouse based shooter controls.
It doesn't play anything like a shooter. You are making yourself look like an absolute imbecile with all these wrong statements.

What game is the left even from? Sounds more like a piece of history than a video game storyline. Right is truthfully crap tho

Based

Wow fuckin rekt

Lol stay mad weeb, go blow your $100 paycheck on gacha

The last thread somehow lead to Animal Crossing being called a JRPG so I'm excited to see where this one is going

This. Why do japs slap the rpg part on it if they won't let the character even role play? Every jrpg i played also has predetermined classes

that's just good Ally AI

is just intentionally bad combat design

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But FF9 is among the worst JRPG ever created. (srs).

Play FF10 instead, it's much better.

>Those tabletop rpgs were adapted to video games
what is even your point? You know that jrpgs also use these tropes right?

>Persona 5 literally have 43 hours of cutscenes.
I don't think you understand what cutscenes mean, then again persona is a unique series among jrpgs, and then again, my point never was that Dark Souls is a typical jrpg.

I literally said that Dark Souls is a unique japanese rpg, just like Monster Hunter.
You wouldn't call MonHun a wrpg either, it's a unique Japanese action rpg, it's pretty much completely it's own thing, and the case of Souls is exactly the same. Just because a japanese rpg is not like a typical jrpg it doesn't mean it's suddenly a western rpg. There isn't a single wrpg like Souls, it's literally a new kind of Japanese rpg. Just like Monster Hunter, just like Kingdom Hearts, just like Nier, etc. none of these are wrpgs, just because they are not like average jrpgs. That's all my point

>It doesn't play anything like a shooter.
except it literally has shooter controls. It plays like an Elder Scrolls game with better hit detection, but that's not soulslike combat

Mechanus Cannon is 8th.

He won't answer you so I will:

Google "The Twisted Tales
of Spike McFang"

And then consolefags call PC "spreadsheet machine".

>FE and Disgaea are JRPGs now
What? What?
Does that make Command and Conquer a WRPG now too?
I swear these definitions get looser with every thread

Bloodborne is better than every WRPG ever made.
Shit thread as usual WRPG-kun is anal blasted no one cares about his inferior genre. Sage.

I agree that WRPGs are easily better, but I'd like for them to make a switch to turn based desu, most of WRPGs combat is one level above minecraft's, look at skyrim