What went wrong?
Mythic+
MMOs in general
literally everything.
clearly not enough because im doing wqs rn
is it just me or are mythic+ dungeons just NOT fun. I mean am I seriously forced to find a group out there and communicate over mic to play with them? I'm all for team work, but if im forced to talk or join a discord server than fuck that.
The only game I could even remotely compare it to, would be dota 2, but in that game you are NOT forced to talk. You easily q for a ranked game tournament or whatever and not even speak a word because the in game responses are enough to talk to your team.
not enough pandas
no creative spark left in the team wow just exists to print money now. it lost all soul
Multiple difficulties was a mistake
I want to marry and impregnate a Panda
Don't let your dreams be dreams
Timegating living shit out of content and launching game with zero content.
>Expansion has been out for 197 days
>Zandalari Trolls still not playable
This, fuck timegating in the ass with a 12” dildo.
People will make excuses for this
Also I was doing a quest in zandalar, the one where you have to raise a little baby direhorn or whatever the fuck it was and the whole time I was like fuck maybe this will be a cool quest chain and I get this thing as a mount after doing a shit ton of quests for it. Nope instead some goblin pumps it full of hgh and I never get to see it again or hear anything about it.
GG blizzard way to be absolute retards.
THEIR 10/10 DANCES WERENT FINISHED
They removed all the RPG aspects of the game. Races/classes have no individuality.
They focused on there path instead of going with the playbase. Taking the game down the path they want, regardless of what people say. We're being forced to do PvE/Story stuff that just isn't fun to do. I couldn't only do the same WQ 3 times before I quit. That is not fun.
Omg yes, quest lines and the stories they tell feel meaningless and lifeless. The game has lost it's soul.
They were slightly better in legion, but every BfA dungeon has way too much trash
M+ is a contradiction in may ways.
They want to make content that is challenging and fulfilling but also appeal to the gogogo community mentality.
I think the removal of CC went a long way to this, because your comp cant be relied on to have cc the easiest way to make the content challenging at every gear level was to introduce the time element.
To me it was the enormous de-escalation
Last expansion we were fighting the final battle against the Burning Legion, we met and fought Titans, acquired the most legendary weapons of the setting, were made the leaders of our whole class, each of which had a real snazzy HQ and a unique set of noteworthy followers to command
Then we went back to Humans vs. Orcs (Or Undead vs Elves, whatev), went back to collecting and discarding purples, and now we just get a boat with the same five schlubs that only differ by faction.
I wondered back when we found out about the Legendary weapons and class halls just how they'd top this lofty height for the NEXT expansion. And now I have the answer: They wouldn't.
Locking allied races behind a rep grind was a REALLY fucking stupid idea. My desire to play went out the window when the game told me to play a character I don't even care about in order to eventually play the race I wanted to play.
What’s confusing is the fact that I actually really liked the class hall stories in legion and artifact weapons were cool and interesting and I thought they were a step in the right direction but then they went and fucked it all up with a Azerite bullshit. How in the world did they pull off that big of a fuckup?
They timegated to keep players from unsubbing
Their imagined-need to reinvent the wheel for SOMEthing every expansion fucks up more than it fixes. I wonder if they feel that if they don't change a bunch of shit in some monumental way then it won't feel like they're doing enough to justify an expansion.
mythic+ was fine in Legion
BFA killed it by designing the new iteration of the system around the MDI instead of actual real players
Looking back it seems they released the Old Gods too easy, for them to be the big bads behind Sargeras. Sargeras seemed WAY more hyped than the Old Gods, has any Old God struck a sword into the world like Sargeras did and yet they are supposed to be more powerful?
>too easy
too early
Lootbox randomized loot purely depending on luck, stats, secondaries and item level all are pure random.
No ways to earn a specific item, like buying it for honor.
Personal loot (started to kill legion but was overlooked)
>literally takes them months to make a playable character out of a NPC. Already rigged, already animated, just need to map controls on the keyboard to move and jump, ect. They cant even fucking do this. How sad are the devs right now? The only thing that I would thing would take the most time is the positioning of Armor and weapons on the model.
I think Legion was originally their last shot; its content cycle was very different from previous expansions and everything really felt like "this is the end". I think they had a rough plotline for BfA and on that they had been planning to introduce in content patches, rather than full on expansions primarily because Legion was originally going to be the last expansion (but not the end of WoW). I think this is why everything feels like Legion-lite. Allied Races were supposed to come in future patch+raid content, that's why they're centered around rep rather than the classic "you buy the expac for the new race" model. Tier armor was supposed to go away because they would not have the resources to create new tier armor + a new raid every patch cycle with the diminished resources. Azerite Armor was introduced originally to supplement your artifact, since player progression would now need to happen solely by gear, and there would be no gear reset. This is why Azerite Armor feels so much worse than Artifact Weapons. They were always supposed to work together not as their own entities. Warfronts and Island Expeditions were supposed to be patch content, which is why they're so basic. The neck was originally going to just be a 1:1 swap with the artifact weapon. Since artifacts were going to be sticking around they wanted players to be able to get patch themed weapons. It feels better to replace your weapon than it does the neck slot is the reason.
But Legion did better than anyone expected and BfA was greenlit. They then had to totally scrap their content timeline and try to get as much stuff together as they could, which is why everything felt (and still feels) half off. And also why they're bringing artifact talents for the neck in 8.2. And also why Azerite Armor is going through major overhauls in 8.2.
When I found out they were timed I lost complete interest. When I played in Vanilla, you could spend HOURS in dungeons. It's part of the experience. Mythic+ is literally for zoomers.
you fucking idiots
if you go back days later the dinos are going nuts and getting sick and you have to save them because the goblin shit was real short sighted
Then later you do more quests
its an entire quest chain that you need to go back for, repeatedly, throughout the week.
Same thing goes for the quests in the cthulhu part of kul tiras.
You're literally complaining that the game has no soul because it has cool quests with changing storylines but YOU'RE TOO FUCKING RETARDED TO NOTICE AND YOU EXPECT EVERYTHING IMMEDIATELY
They don't have to timegate to keep players subbed, every piece of content in BFA is designed so you have to login every single day
>daily emissary
>scaling makes it so the higher your gear score the higher emissary reward
>first dungeon reward of the day
>island expedition weekly azerite
>or just do them for the shitty cosmetics
>don't forget the treasure map you get at the end which gives your followers a mission that can give something
>so you need to level them up as well
>collect doubloons for the vendor
>come next patch vendor will also sell gear apparently
>warfront to gear up alts
>or warfront zone quests for that single piece of gear
>or warfront world boss
>invasions every 12 hours
>first warfront and every invasion give seals
>which are conveniently attached to another cosmetics vendor
>world boss every week plus coin to reroll
>mythic dungeons every week for the residuum so you can eventually buy the piece of gear you actually want
>or buy a piece of 385 gear
I think they care more about how many active players there are throughout the day than how many renew their sub at this point. Some are saying 8.2 will fix BFA, but I think its too far gone at this point.
I wanted to play as the brown orcs ever since BC
Then I realized I had to grind to months to get them, even though I'm exalted with the faction in OL, and after that I just realized that I don't really want to play as them because the new zones are so shit for Horde characters
>Same thing goes for the quests in the cthulhu part of kul tiras.
I never played through the Horde stuff, but that quest chain was weird. It was time-gated, but seemingly for no good reason. I don't remember any cool or unique rewards, or even interesting story beats. It's just a chain that makes you wait.
>more timegated shit to pad out subs
thanks Blizz!
Like every 'bad' WOW expansion it lacked a theme or story that drew WOW fags in.
People are just now realizing that world quests and mythic+ were propped up by RNG legendaries, the content is shit and repetitive as fuck and the only way to keep people interested was orange loot.
The game has no soul because the quests and storylines are oversaturated with memes, retcons and inconsistancy, and ruins any sense of actually completing said quests because they're recycled into the daily/wq system so you get completely fucking sick of doing them.
Daily/weekly shit is a timegate mechanic you tard.
A game without timegates would just be long and grindy, which is what everyone fucking wants, content now is cleared in an hour or two of its release and then you're stuck on a repetitive timegate cycle designed to pad out sub times.
>A game without timegates would just be long and grindy, which is what everyone fucking wants
I wish Blizz wasn't too arrogant to see this
it'd be easy as fuck if they had one guy that loves the game and knows what he is doing asigned to the task, now try getting 10 colored hair transgenders to complete a simple task without procrastinating and complaining about how they're opressed and targeted.
We only have background about ancient Black Empires to tell us how bad the Old Gods can be. Meanwhile we've SEEN the Legion invading en mass, we've BEEN to a world destroyed by the Legion
Imagine playing WoW, but every single piece of content is relevant, every raid, dungeon, world boss and rep grind is meaningful for end game somehow.
Why can't they do this? instead people just grind old shit on their overleveled characters for cosmetic crap. I know about the timewalking shit, but that was just limited time crap.
Nobody that develops the game actually fucking plays it.
Do you like everything being time-gated because Blizzard can't deliver on content properly?
>Mythrax gets nerfed after Ion's guild was stuck on 6/8 mythic for a week
nah, they still do
Because they don't want to.
Ion Hozzikostas is a hack, and has been at the helm of WOW's development since WOTLK, all of WOW's development resources go into his precious world first raiding scene for which he was hired for, anything that isn't a Raid has been converted into a minigame, or some kind of time gated grind such as daily/world quest rep grinds, m+, ect, if it isn't a massive healthpool that shits damage circles, Ion Wants as little development time put into it as possible, and he wants his bosses to be 'challenging' and the only way he can do that is remove players ability to do fucking anything with the constant pruning and nerfs and extreme homoginization of classes.
And yet time after fucking time Method keeps beating his precious bosses in mere hours after it being released because Ion forgot the biggest fucking factor in what makes end game last, progression.
To be fair, no MMO does that.
You know, I think the biggest misstep in WoW actually happened all the way back in BC. Raising the level cap was a mistake that created a mindset where every new expansion needed to be treated as a new game, with the old content reduced to nothing.
no new abilities
mythic+ is shit
too few zones
not enough notable content
new features suck
>Ion removes master loot to make heroic split runs less viable for gearing
>Method destroys the economy of 3 different servers to buy enough crafted gear to fill all of their slots and still be able to trade loot
OSRS is constantly updating 'dead content' to be relevant in some way, either by offering budget alternatives for skilling, reworking items to be useful in different pure PVP brackets, or reworking drop tables and such.
Remember those giants no one gave a fuck about under varrock? Yeah now people farm them constantly for seeds at mid combat levels.
It's funny. For the longest time there was the complaint that WoW catered too hard to casuals, but the only people who get even a modicum of enjoyment out of the game are the tippy top of raiders.
I am convinced that WOW's downfall isn't pandering to casuals, but rather trying to police poopsockers
Worst part is Zandalari were fucking ready at launch, but Blizz feared Ally crying so much that they decided to hold them back until they finished Kul'tirans instead of launching with them and Dark Irons.
Also probably why Mag'har have the shittiest least thought out racials of all time.
god I forgot how shit Mag'har racials are
>bonus to pet damage on a race that can't be warlocks or DKs
>active ability that's literally "be more gooder for 15 seconds"
jesus christ what were they thinking
Like, it's a crux in sheer game-design philosophy. "We want to create new zones for players to explore, but what do we do in those zones?" By the answer being "leveling up," they destroyed countless hours of content for players every expansion.
Imagine a world where you could be farming AQ, Kara, and IC, and each one had gear, or at least something, that made it relevant, challenging, and rewarding to experience.
I wish they'd rebalance old raids so that they're soloable at max level, but still a challenge. Some of the most fun I've had in the game was soloing MoP raids at the end of WoD, when you could outgear them just enough to be doable but hard as balls
The worst thing is you fucking KNOW Kul Tirans are going to have shit population numbers. Who in their right mind wants to play as a fat human? At most, you're going to please a few people on Moonguard who want a slampig ERP profile.
Blizzard's philosophy often seems to be "throw the baby out with the bath water." They have 15 years worth of content in this game, but people are bored with nothing to do. How is that even possible? Why, as a game designer, do you look at that, and think, "yes, this is acceptable."
the best move is to play on a free private server with high XP gains to experience all the content on all classes at your leisure.
yeah, Blizzard is fucking retarded about abandoning random systems but then keeping on shit no one likes. Everyone loved artifacts but those got tossed into the trash while somehow fucking garrison tables are STILL a thing (albeit basically useless now)
Because Blizzard mega spoils their employees, the amount of work they have to do between every expansion and content patch is minimal. The only people that cared about the experience left long ago, the only ones remaining are only trying to milk wow out of it's last drops of juice, and the useless colored hair people that earn $40+ an hour for sipping chai latte or some fucking onions derivate.
>Everyone loved artifacts
Wut
Everything is too easy = nothing feels rewarding and inb4 some retard says you can just do m15+, it's not the same feeling when anyone can clear the same dungeon on heroic/mythic. Killing raptors for 10% drop rate heads in vanilla feels more rewarding than any garbage linear quest in BFA.
Item rewards are also not "unique" anymore, back in the day there were cool unique items that felt really good to have eg. ironfoe. Now 90% of your gear is just whatever garbage item you got that proced titanforged with socket.
Everything outside of raids is just rehashed garbage and the devs are too scared to try anything new.
You're not supposed to do M+ on your first run.
If I've done the dungeon already 15 times I don't want it taking a few hours.
The thing is, this is a problem that even WoW in its prime faced, and I think it's only now, as everything new they're doing sticks out as bad, that it becomes apparent.
Every patch makes the previous patch irrelevant. You go back to WotLK, and you had this sprawling, beautiful raid in Ulduar, but a few months later ToC came: phoned-in, messy content, that on a sheer numbers game, trumped what 3.1 had, so you obviously would do that instead, despite the experience in Ulduar being arguably higher quality.
I'm fucking sick of islands
maybe "everyone" is an overstatement, but artifacts and M+ were the two best received features in Legion. Blizzard completely removed one and ruined the other beyond repair.
Honestly I wanted one as a dumbass joke, but with all the hoops I need to jump through to play one I don't really give enough of a shit.
Too bad, I bet being a sassy black priest would've been fun.
Ulduar was the last raid the original team worked on before moving to titan completely, team 2, aka Ion and Ghostcrawler were left with TOC and TOC was such a fuckup they had to come back and make sure ICC didn't suck.
and ICC still mostly did suck
>the Scourge reduced to a literal meme with fucking Professor Farnsworth as a boss
>lootship battle makes literally 0 sense at all, especially if you play Alliance
>hurr durr I was only pretending to be retarded, now prepare to die oh wait Tirion noooooo
classic will save wow
>A game without timegates would just be long and grindy, which is what everyone fucking wants
We had it. It was called Everquest.
Investors now gauge the games success based on how many people are playing it daily.
This is why all these modern mmo wannabee games have daily logon bullshit.
>look at how many people are playing every day!
>please buy our stocks the game is a huge success!
Too much useless/uninteresting small shit to do that distracts from what is actually fun. If i go into a BG there is the constant nagging sensation that i would be better off in the long run by waltzing over to those 3 world quests for a tiny bit of azerite. That makes the BG itself feel worse. I'm using BGs as an example here but that pertains to most of the stuff in the game. The game would be far better off without the azerite power grinding, world quests, and mission table (the table is more tolerable than before, but the root problem persists). Only time WQs come close to being fun is during condensed event periods like assaults and invasions.
Ironic that this is a PvP themed expansion and yet BGs have been neglected for years, war mode is trashed and forgotten, and there's no PvP gear or PvP vendors. I don't think the periodic Brawl weekly quests give gear the competes with normal raid gear, yet you can fumble through some trashy M+6 and get competitive gear. Their priorities are fucked. I remember in MoP the big issues were dailies at the start, and then content droughts later on. The problem now is not lack of content, it's the content itself.